And? Your argument is that nobody in the Federation knew how to be a soldier, or thought like one. You've been provided with examples of how that is patently false.
I think he's saying that while several people in the federation may indeed not be "idiots" the federation council is invariably portrayed as well meaning but bumbling and naive at best, willfully blind at worst. They always look to reduce the power of starfleet. We, the watchers, know its to make the heroes more important than they should be, but it does paint the federation as an all but self destructive organization that can't wait to bare its neck to predators.
I'll cite you Benjamin Maxwell, and Miles O'Brien. Starfleet Officers who very much embodied the role and mindset of soldier, and were of the era of the Cardassian War.
And I will again cite families on starships, and high ranking officers being entirely out of touch with reality.
That there were a few people who still knew what's what doesn't change that the prevailing attitude of the time was that of naivete and burying one's head in the sand, where the Federation flagship was designed like a cruise liner and not a particularly safe one at that.
And I will again cite families on starships, and high ranking officers being entirely out of touch with reality.
That there were a few people who still knew what's what doesn't change that the prevailing attitude of the time was that of naivete and burying one's head in the sand, where the Federation flagship was designed like a cruise liner and not a particularly safe one at that.
You shouldn't forget that the Enterprise -D was the flagship. It was on a diplomatic/Science mission to represent the Federation in it's best light.
There is no reason that in war time, families would stay on board. Even Picard was against having Families and children on board. The Galaxy classes seen in late DS9 episodes surely had no familes on board.
Don't confuse design with mission dependant changes of that ship. The Galaxy was highly adoptable, it was not its purpose to drive around children with their mothers.
The Galaxy was designed to take various roles, even the one of a diplomatic cruise liner, but also as a front line Battleship capable of heavy combat.
I am sure if the producers of ST:8 wouldn't have introduced that streched Constitution/Excelsior hybrid, we would have seen the Galaxy Class doing heavy Battles and no one would doubt it's combat effectiveness.
Even if ST:8 introduced another ship, it doesn't change the Galaxy class at all.
In my opinion, it is even a heavier and tougher starship than the sovereign, if outfitted in the right way. Maybe not as agile but still on par with it.
While the Sovereign got its primary firepower through its various torpedo tubes, the Galaxy relies on its huge phaser arrays. Thats how Cryptics devs should have made the Galaxy Class in this game IMO. Highly adaptable and mainly a energy weapon focussed Battleship.
Anyway at least they shouldn't have made the Excelsior or Ambassador able to create more firepower than the Galaxy. That just doesn't make any sense...
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I think he's saying that while several people in the federation may indeed not be "idiots" the federation council is invariably portrayed as well meaning but bumbling and naive at best, willfully blind at worst. They always look to reduce the power of starfleet. We, the watchers, know its to make the heroes more important than they should be, but it does paint the federation as an all but self destructive organization that can't wait to bare its neck to predators.
I was saying thge war was all but over when the Galaxy was bult
Looks as though this conversation has de-evolved into an argument over The Next Generation. I'll try to get us back on point: The Galaxy Retrofit is simply not up to par with it's brothers. I am of the opinion that if Cryptic is going to charge people for this ship it should perform on par with other T5 ships that they ask people to pay money for and as it is, it simply does not. It NEEDS to be looked at for a balance pass and bring it in line with the others. Right now it is toothless to the point of being insulting.
I was saying thge war was all but over when the Galaxy was bult
But it wasn't. As has been cited by multiple sources of Star Trek chronology and history and canon.
And the entire time there was conflict with the Tholians.
It keeps getting repeated, but hey, one more time for fun ...
The Galaxy was not built during a time of peace. It was designed, crafted and launched during a time period when Starfleet was in conflict with multiple governments.
The Galaxy, however, was not designed to be a warship.
It was designed to defend itself, because Starfleet knew the ships would come into conflicts. But the primary purpose of the Galaxy's design was deep space exploration.
You know the whole bit about seeking out new life and new civilizations.
Looks as though this conversation has de-evolved into an argument over The Next Generation. I'll try to get us back on point: The Galaxy Retrofit is simply not up to par with it's brothers. I am of the opinion that if Cryptic is going to charge people for this ship it should perform on par with other T5 ships that they ask people to pay money for and as it is, it simply does not. It NEEDS to be looked at for a balance pass and bring it in line with the others. Right now it is toothless to the point of being insulting.
How's it stack up against the Operations version of the Odyssey? Because that would seem to be the ship it's most kin to.
How's it stack up against the Operations version of the Odyssey? Because that would seem to be the ship it's most kin to.
Basically, you are spending 5000 more Z-points to gain 15% more shielding, 2,000 more hull, 1 more Engineering console slot, having the Lt. Cmdr and Ens. Engineering BOFF slots converted to Universal Slots (allowing you to sacrifice Engineering ability for Tactical or Science ability. If you still wanted to keep the Galaxy Engineering abilities, this would not be counted as a change), a custom Bridge, and doubling the duration of Slipsteam travel (60 seconds instead of the normal 30). On the plus side, the Galaxy-R is a smaller ship model.
How's it stack up against the Operations version of the Odyssey? Because that would seem to be the ship it's most kin to.
They are about equivalent, other than the Odyssey has more hull and shields and the Gal-R plus another console slot. Also it has a much more modular and versatile BOff layout. It also has more crew (a null point with how things currently are in game), and lower inertia. Also a larger sprite so it actually takes a little longer to turn than the Galaxy despite having equal turn stats.
Other than that, it's similar, if not the same. However the Ops Oddy has Chevron sep, which is similar to saucer sep, but I think the Odyssey pet is slightly better than the Galaxy pet.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
But it wasn't. As has been cited by multiple sources of Star Trek chronology and history and canon.
And the entire time there was conflict with the Tholians.
It keeps getting repeated, but hey, one more time for fun ...
The Galaxy was not built during a time of peace. It was designed, crafted and launched during a time period when Starfleet was in conflict with multiple governments.
The Galaxy, however, was not designed to be a warship.
It was designed to defend itself, because Starfleet knew the ships would come into conflicts. But the primary purpose of the Galaxy's design was deep space exploration.
You know the whole bit about seeking out new life and new civilizations.
But no, it was not designed during peace time.
Not really, there is no record on how long those wars were. and even memory alpha said some were more like skirmishes and various cease fires.
Looks as though this conversation has de-evolved into an argument over The Next Generation. I'll try to get us back on point: The Galaxy Retrofit is simply not up to par with it's brothers. I am of the opinion that if Cryptic is going to charge people for this ship it should perform on par with other T5 ships that they ask people to pay money for and as it is, it simply does not. It NEEDS to be looked at for a balance pass and bring it in line with the others. Right now it is toothless to the point of being insulting.
they honestly don't understand why it sucks, they cant tell by looking at it that it is a combination of every unideal stat.
Can you please stop using such all encompassing terms? It has amazing tanking stats.
Yes it does, but it has almost no offensive capabilities. Equipping it with weapons is just a waste of EC.
It is literary a flying target practice.
In PvP it is not the question IF it loses, it's WHEN.
In PvE it it simply said the most boring ship in the game.
Anyway this condition is not aceptable for such a iconic ship like this.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Yes it does, but it has almost no offensive capabilities. Equipping it with weapons is just a waste of EC.
It is literary a flying target practice.
In PvP it is not the question IF it loses, it's WHEN.
In PvE it it simply said the most boring ship in the game.
Anyway this condition is not aceptable for such a iconic ship like this.
"WHEN"
That's not true, it's an amazing tank and healer, it's one of the best too. You don't need a great turn rate to tank or heal. If you think the turn rate is such a killer, please consider that there is no cruiser a good escort pilot can't park behind.
While using such drastic terms to describe the Galaxy's performance irks me, I am still somewhat on your team. I think the Galaxy should have slightly better turning than the Odyssey, and as long as all the ships got variable console and Boff slots, I support your guys desire to give the Galaxy them too.
Can you please stop using such all encompassing terms? It has amazing tanking stats.
all encompassing is completely accurate, its proboly the worst tanks among cruisers in game actually. all my play time in escort and kdf cruisers have shown me how impotent maneuvering is for defense and tanking, guess what the galaxy can do exactly 0 of.
station powers lets see. assault cruisers can have more TT up time, and the star cruisers can have another copy of the lovelyTSS or HE, that doesn't interfere with any team skill global cooldowns. to say nothing of the great combinatins you can make with the ody, ambi, nebula, recluse, and other ships with a beter mix of sci and eng, and even tac, all more useful for tanking.
whats the galaxy R got? to many ensigns in the station type that has no system cooldown diversity, like sci and tac does. your stuck with low level ET1, your stuck with low level EPtS skills because you have no other way to fill up those ensign slots. your so confounded by system cooldowns and an abundance of stations were there is no diversity, that it critically effects your ability to tank and suport.
so i will continue to truthfully say it is a combination of every unideal stat, and i will say it in more crass ways when i choose too. that was a very kind way to describe the galaxy R
whats the galaxy R got? to many ensigns in the station type that has no system cooldown diversity, like sci and tac does. your stuck with low level ET1, your stuck with low level EPtS skills because you have no other way to fill up those ensign slots. your so confounded by system cooldowns and an abundance of stations were there is no diversity, that it critically effects your ability to tank and suport.
so i will continue to truthfully say it is a combination of every unideal stat, and i will say it in more crass ways when i choose too. that was a very kind way to describe the galaxy R
i tend to agree with your assesment, since it is an old story that low level engineering abilitiys share too much cooldowns with each other.
This affects the galaxy R the most, with its 8 engi slots.
Personally i believe that moving tractor beam from sci to engi would already do the trick. Why tractor beam? Personally i fail to see why this ability is in the sci department to start with...it is a pretty standard thing for a starship, nothing really scientific about it in the 25th century i guess. This is clearly an engineering department ability in my opinion. Also cruisers would benefit greatly from it, since they can compensate for their movement imparement.
many other threads have had very good ideas already to improve the galaxy R and certain cruisers in general. I personally tend to the Ltdcmdr sci boff slot and sensor analasys...kind of like the cruiser variant of the nebula.
Further a slight turnrate increase for all fed cruisers and a slight adjustment to powerdrain of beam arrays and reducing the amount of shots per volley of a beam array. (less shots with slightly more power)
IMHO that would solve most of the issues cruisers have without changing their intended role in the game or breaking the current "trinity" of space combat.
That's not true, it's an amazing tank and healer, it's one of the best too. You don't need a great turn rate to tank or heal. If you think the turn rate is such a killer, please consider that there is no cruiser a good escort pilot can't park behind.
While using such drastic terms to describe the Galaxy's performance irks me, I am still somewhat on your team. I think the Galaxy should have slightly better turning than the Odyssey, and as long as all the ships got variable console and Boff slots, I support your guys desire to give the Galaxy them too.
Well "drastic" would have been different, believe me.
I don't think that turn rate is a big killer, it just makes the ship completely passive. You are practically stationary compared to ANY other ship, yes even Carriers who can at least taka a active role with some fighters.
Compared to this, the Galaxy -R has almost no means of offensive. One Lt. Tactical, thats all.
In PvP and Elite difficulty, you NEED one Tac team, no discussion needed IMO.
So what's left, 1 ONE tactical BOFF power that's it. Every other BOFF station gives that ship some passive improvement, but no real addition to its attack power.
You can think about that ship what you want, but even in TNG we saw the (diplomatic focussed Galaxy Class) having at least 3 tactical powers, FAW, BO and TS, if not even THY.
What have we seen of the Excelsior or the Ambassador?
So even if we take canon that ship has more capabilities than in this game.
Maybe if Mr. Rivera where a fan of it, we would have a better Galax class.
Its Engineering powers are the most passive when it comes to attacking an enemy.
And the Galaxy has 8 of them, 3 being Ensigns....
Even if we knew nothing about the Galaxy Class and if it wheren't such a well documented ship, it would still bother me. That BOFF layout is just insufficient, plain said.
Its console layout just yells "shoot at me!".
In my eyes, Cryptic made the Galaxy Class a big target practice for their beloved escorts, nothing else.
Just as dontdrunkimshoot said, other ships can tank much better, and still be able to add some Firepower or healing to a battle.
With just 2 tactical BOFF stations and 3 Ensgin Engineering stations, that ship is just inferior compared all other ships and in my eyes completely useless.
Heck, Cryptic even gave the Ambassador or the Excelsior a much more useful BOFF and Console Layout. Keeping the Galaxy Class the least useful/most passive Cruiser (even compared to it's precursors) just shows that some people at Cryptic have put their own personal preferences over anything Star Trek has shown and just ignoring common sense IMO.
I haven't heard a word from all the "Nay" sayers when we saw the BOFF & Console Layout of the Ambassador, but when it comes to the Galaxy they jump at it in an instance!
The fact that Cryptic keeps ignoring us, is just another sign of how little they care for reason.
I mean it is not like we would want something completely far-fetched. The Galaxy still wouldn't be a top of the line ship, but it wouldn't be such a pain to fly. But they don't care, they don't even listen if we bring up ideas for C-Store packs which would make some real Money. the only conclusion for me is that they much hate this ship abysmal.
I just don't understand why this is such a problem in the First place. The Galaxy Class is such a iconic ship, making it so "bad" just alienates a lot of people.
why do something like this at all?
Woud it hurt Mr. Rivera so much if that ship would actually be fun to fly?
I mean his favourite ship got in its Fleet variant 4 tactical consoles and a Lt. Cmdr tactical BOFF station, although it is almost 100 years older than the Galaxy, i don't think this doesn't make any sense.
My point is improving the Galaxy Class wouldn't change other ships at all. Everyones favourite ships would still be the same, even Mr. Riveras rediculusly strong Excelsior.
But keeping the Galaxy Class in such an inferior state is just unprofessional and unworthy for everyone.
EDIT:
Sorry for that wall of text.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Foolishness. The galaxy is a great ship for its role. Only the oddy is slightly better and I'll still fly the galaxy because, well I like tng. The only thing i think should be done is make that ensign eng a universal eng.
I'm doing 5-8k enc dps when tanking STF's. Which is plenty for a tank to contribute, and holding threat off my buddies who are all in the 12-21k enc DPS range. And I'm basically invincible unless I personally TRIBBLE up a cooldown.
Foolishness. The galaxy is a great ship for its role. Only the oddy is slightly better and I'll still fly the galaxy because, well I like tng. The only thing i think should be done is make that ensign eng a universal eng.
I'm doing 5-8k enc dps when tanking STF's. Which is plenty for a tank to contribute, and holding threat off my buddies who are all in the 12-21k enc DPS range. And I'm basically invincible unless I personally TRIBBLE up a cooldown.
It is a tank, and an exceptional one.
Before insulting anyone here, have you tried any other ship?
If you would have cared to read, just as dontdrunkimshoot said, its 3 ensign Engineering BOFF share just too many cooldowns with each other. The Assault Crusier can attack better, the Star Cruiser can tank better (since its ensign and Lt. Science, which don't share their cooldown with engineering).
In my opinon, just making its Ensign engineering into a universal one won't do it.
There needs to be a complete change in its Console Layout as well as in its BOFF layout.
I think a BOFF & Console Layout like this would be appropriate for the Galaxy -R: (this would be my personal favourite TBH.)
Engieering: Cmdr.
Engineering: Lt. Science: Lt. Tactical: Lt. Cmdr. Fleet Variant has instead of the Lt. Science a Lt. Universal.
With such a BOFF & Console Layout, it would at least be a much more unique ship. Capable to do what it did on TV. Other ships got some fantasy BOFF & Console layouts, which have no basic in canon or don't even make some sense.
If the Galaxy where Mr. Riveras darling, we definitely would have a similar ship like this, IMO.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I disagree with needed ttac team, most of my ships don't use it and I do fine.
I disagree with your disagreement.
Well, if you DON'T want to get blown up all the time in PvP or Elite Difficulty, you either are unreasonable lucky or you just don't care if your ship gets destroyed all the time.
I don't, so i need to run TT almost constantly in combination with RSP you can withstand at least several minutes, in PvP.
I have no idea whom you where fighting, and i really don't care, but to say TT is not needed at all is almost a joke.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
It says till 2350's though a formal treaty wasn't till 2367. so the main war was over when the Galaxy was launched.
All of the needed chronology has been provided to you. The conflict existed during the Galaxy Class' design and development process.
As did conflict with the Tholians. The episode The Icarus Factor establishes that. In fact, there was ongoing and continued conflict with the Tholians from Kirk's era allllllll the way up through TNG. It was DS9 where we first hear tell of Tholian ambassadors being present on Earth.
I'm not sure why you keep clinging to your own internal dramatization about how the Federation-Cardassian war was akin to the first Gulf War. But your fan fic doesn't jive with the established documentation from the episodes or from the published Encyclopedia. (I won't even mention Memory Alpha, I'll just mention the written Encyclopedia, which is established canon).
But even you are conceding that during the ship's time in design and development, Starfleet was not at peace.
And then there's the Tholians.
The ship was not designed during peace time. The shows establish this. The ship was not designed for battle. It was deisgned to boldly go where no one has gone before. It can defend itself. Because hey, Tholians and Cardassians and cranky Klingons still existed. But it was designed to seek out new life and new civilizations.
don't forget the tzenkethi, that war was so recent that sisko was a first officer on a ship when it happened. that had to be just pre tng too. he said the last too, implying there were several.
the stupidest argument in the history of the galaxyR discussion is that of 'well its just fine, i can pve in it and it kills everything i shoot so its fine.' wrong noob, using it vs any other cruiser is a self nerf, anything else would do a better job in its place. its so much worse then other cruisers, that in pvp its practically unusable. completing pve in it is no accomplishment, i could do every mission save for stfs in a shuttle if i felt like it. don't need TT? go ahead and que up for pvp without it, and tell me you don't need it, lol
All of the needed chronology has been provided to you. The conflict existed during the Galaxy Class' design and development process.
As did conflict with the Tholians. The episode The Icarus Factor establishes that. In fact, there was ongoing and continued conflict with the Tholians from Kirk's era allllllll the way up through TNG. It was DS9 where we first hear tell of Tholian ambassadors being present on Earth.
I'm not sure why you keep clinging to your own internal dramatization about how the Federation-Cardassian war was akin to the first Gulf War. But your fan fic doesn't jive with the established documentation from the episodes or from the published Encyclopedia. (I won't even mention Memory Alpha, I'll just mention the written Encyclopedia, which is established canon).
But even you are conceding that during the ship's time in design and development, Starfleet was not at peace.
And then there's the Tholians.
The ship was not designed during peace time. The shows establish this. The ship was not designed for battle. It was deisgned to boldly go where no one has gone before. It can defend itself. Because hey, Tholians and Cardassians and cranky Klingons still existed. But it was designed to seek out new life and new civilizations.
What's that fuss about if the Galaxy was built in peace times or not?
No one (not even Starfleets most hippiest Admirals) would comission their biggest ship ever built without appropriate offensive and defensive systems.
I just don't get why the Galaxy Class is such a problem in this game and why is this suddenly sucha a controversy at all...
But maybe i should just stop to care at all.
As long as Escorts are way more powerful than ships 10x the size, one should think people who like the Galaxy should have different problems then argue stuff like that.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
What's that fuss about if the Galaxy was built in peace times or not?
It originally started way back when, someone said that the Excelsior was developed in a time of war/conflict with the Klingons. But that the Galaxy was developed during a time of peace. So that's why the Excelsior can outperform the Galaxy at T5.
Which, as seen, isn't true. Both ships were developed during times of conflict. And neither was developed to be a battleship. It's really not that big a deal, but one particular poster decided to try and write his own version of the Cardassian conflict and draw this tiny tiny piece of information out across this entire thread.
No one (not even Starfleets most hippiest Admirals) would comission their biggest ship ever built without appropriate offensive and defensive systems.
don't forget the tzenkethi, that war was so recent that sisko was a first officer on a ship when it happened. that had to be just pre tng too. he said the last too, implying there were several.
I wanted to cite them as well, but forgot how to spell tzenkethi.
But yeah, throw them into the chronology and there's even more conflict going on.
[What's that fuss about if the Galaxy was built in peace times or not?
I know I'm wasting my time, but still...
The Galaxy was built as an exploration vessel. It was not built as a warship - which we clearly learn the Defiant was built for. There's a reason why the least "shoot-first" Captain in Starfleet was given command of the first Galaxy. It's mission was to load up with families and go out and try and make peaceful contact with various species. That does not mean the Galaxy was not a powerful ship. it was simply not a warship.
No one (not even Starfleets most hippiest Admirals) would comission their biggest ship ever built without appropriate offensive and defensive systems.
The ship was big because it was designed to house crew with their families. The ship could have been made many times smaller if they did not want it to house all those people. It was supposed to be impressive and majestic so that first contact aliens could see how grand the Federation was in building such huge ships.
I just don't get why the Galaxy Class is such a problem in this game and why is this suddenly sucha a controversy at all...
It's not a problem. The Galaxy is 45 years old in this timeline. Technology has moved on - which is why Picard was given a Sovereign rather then another Galaxy after the D was destroyed. In this era the Galaxy is not supposed to be the best ship in the fleet any more then the Enterprise B was the best ship in the fleet once the Excelsior was introduced.
But maybe i should just stop to care at all.
I agree with this statement. Loving A more then B doesn't mean that B sucks or that A is the best thing ever.
As long as Escorts are way more powerful than ships 10x the size, one should think people who like the Galaxy should have different problems then argue stuff like that.
Size has little to do with power. As I said above, the Galaxy was designed to house civilians and transport relief supplies. The Defiant barely has space for its own crew.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Comments
I think he's saying that while several people in the federation may indeed not be "idiots" the federation council is invariably portrayed as well meaning but bumbling and naive at best, willfully blind at worst. They always look to reduce the power of starfleet. We, the watchers, know its to make the heroes more important than they should be, but it does paint the federation as an all but self destructive organization that can't wait to bare its neck to predators.
And I will again cite families on starships, and high ranking officers being entirely out of touch with reality.
That there were a few people who still knew what's what doesn't change that the prevailing attitude of the time was that of naivete and burying one's head in the sand, where the Federation flagship was designed like a cruise liner and not a particularly safe one at that.
You shouldn't forget that the Enterprise -D was the flagship. It was on a diplomatic/Science mission to represent the Federation in it's best light.
There is no reason that in war time, families would stay on board. Even Picard was against having Families and children on board. The Galaxy classes seen in late DS9 episodes surely had no familes on board.
Don't confuse design with mission dependant changes of that ship. The Galaxy was highly adoptable, it was not its purpose to drive around children with their mothers.
The Galaxy was designed to take various roles, even the one of a diplomatic cruise liner, but also as a front line Battleship capable of heavy combat.
I am sure if the producers of ST:8 wouldn't have introduced that streched Constitution/Excelsior hybrid, we would have seen the Galaxy Class doing heavy Battles and no one would doubt it's combat effectiveness.
Even if ST:8 introduced another ship, it doesn't change the Galaxy class at all.
In my opinion, it is even a heavier and tougher starship than the sovereign, if outfitted in the right way. Maybe not as agile but still on par with it.
While the Sovereign got its primary firepower through its various torpedo tubes, the Galaxy relies on its huge phaser arrays. Thats how Cryptics devs should have made the Galaxy Class in this game IMO. Highly adaptable and mainly a energy weapon focussed Battleship.
Anyway at least they shouldn't have made the Excelsior or Ambassador able to create more firepower than the Galaxy. That just doesn't make any sense...
Earlier in the thread someone posted a shot of a destroyed Galaxy at the second battle of Chin'Toka.
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I was saying thge war was all but over when the Galaxy was bult
But it wasn't. As has been cited by multiple sources of Star Trek chronology and history and canon.
And the entire time there was conflict with the Tholians.
It keeps getting repeated, but hey, one more time for fun ...
The Galaxy was not built during a time of peace. It was designed, crafted and launched during a time period when Starfleet was in conflict with multiple governments.
The Galaxy, however, was not designed to be a warship.
It was designed to defend itself, because Starfleet knew the ships would come into conflicts. But the primary purpose of the Galaxy's design was deep space exploration.
You know the whole bit about seeking out new life and new civilizations.
But no, it was not designed during peace time.
How's it stack up against the Operations version of the Odyssey? Because that would seem to be the ship it's most kin to.
Basically, you are spending 5000 more Z-points to gain 15% more shielding, 2,000 more hull, 1 more Engineering console slot, having the Lt. Cmdr and Ens. Engineering BOFF slots converted to Universal Slots (allowing you to sacrifice Engineering ability for Tactical or Science ability. If you still wanted to keep the Galaxy Engineering abilities, this would not be counted as a change), a custom Bridge, and doubling the duration of Slipsteam travel (60 seconds instead of the normal 30). On the plus side, the Galaxy-R is a smaller ship model.
They are about equivalent, other than the Odyssey has more hull and shields and the Gal-R plus another console slot. Also it has a much more modular and versatile BOff layout. It also has more crew (a null point with how things currently are in game), and lower inertia. Also a larger sprite so it actually takes a little longer to turn than the Galaxy despite having equal turn stats.
Other than that, it's similar, if not the same. However the Ops Oddy has Chevron sep, which is similar to saucer sep, but I think the Odyssey pet is slightly better than the Galaxy pet.
Not really, there is no record on how long those wars were. and even memory alpha said some were more like skirmishes and various cease fires.
they honestly don't understand why it sucks, they cant tell by looking at it that it is a combination of every unideal stat.
yes there is the cardassian-federation war was form 2347-2367 when the truce was agreed on with the official peace treaty being signed in 2370
It says till 2350's though a formal treaty wasn't till 2367. so the main war was over when the Galaxy was launched.
Can you please stop using such all encompassing terms? It has amazing tanking stats.
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Yes it does, but it has almost no offensive capabilities. Equipping it with weapons is just a waste of EC.
It is literary a flying target practice.
In PvP it is not the question IF it loses, it's WHEN.
In PvE it it simply said the most boring ship in the game.
Anyway this condition is not aceptable for such a iconic ship like this.
"WHEN"
That's not true, it's an amazing tank and healer, it's one of the best too. You don't need a great turn rate to tank or heal. If you think the turn rate is such a killer, please consider that there is no cruiser a good escort pilot can't park behind.
While using such drastic terms to describe the Galaxy's performance irks me, I am still somewhat on your team. I think the Galaxy should have slightly better turning than the Odyssey, and as long as all the ships got variable console and Boff slots, I support your guys desire to give the Galaxy them too.
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all encompassing is completely accurate, its proboly the worst tanks among cruisers in game actually. all my play time in escort and kdf cruisers have shown me how impotent maneuvering is for defense and tanking, guess what the galaxy can do exactly 0 of.
station powers lets see. assault cruisers can have more TT up time, and the star cruisers can have another copy of the lovelyTSS or HE, that doesn't interfere with any team skill global cooldowns. to say nothing of the great combinatins you can make with the ody, ambi, nebula, recluse, and other ships with a beter mix of sci and eng, and even tac, all more useful for tanking.
whats the galaxy R got? to many ensigns in the station type that has no system cooldown diversity, like sci and tac does. your stuck with low level ET1, your stuck with low level EPtS skills because you have no other way to fill up those ensign slots. your so confounded by system cooldowns and an abundance of stations were there is no diversity, that it critically effects your ability to tank and suport.
so i will continue to truthfully say it is a combination of every unideal stat, and i will say it in more crass ways when i choose too. that was a very kind way to describe the galaxy R
i tend to agree with your assesment, since it is an old story that low level engineering abilitiys share too much cooldowns with each other.
This affects the galaxy R the most, with its 8 engi slots.
Personally i believe that moving tractor beam from sci to engi would already do the trick. Why tractor beam? Personally i fail to see why this ability is in the sci department to start with...it is a pretty standard thing for a starship, nothing really scientific about it in the 25th century i guess. This is clearly an engineering department ability in my opinion. Also cruisers would benefit greatly from it, since they can compensate for their movement imparement.
many other threads have had very good ideas already to improve the galaxy R and certain cruisers in general. I personally tend to the Ltdcmdr sci boff slot and sensor analasys...kind of like the cruiser variant of the nebula.
Further a slight turnrate increase for all fed cruisers and a slight adjustment to powerdrain of beam arrays and reducing the amount of shots per volley of a beam array. (less shots with slightly more power)
IMHO that would solve most of the issues cruisers have without changing their intended role in the game or breaking the current "trinity" of space combat.
I don't think that turn rate is a big killer, it just makes the ship completely passive. You are practically stationary compared to ANY other ship, yes even Carriers who can at least taka a active role with some fighters.
Compared to this, the Galaxy -R has almost no means of offensive. One Lt. Tactical, thats all.
In PvP and Elite difficulty, you NEED one Tac team, no discussion needed IMO.
So what's left, 1 ONE tactical BOFF power that's it. Every other BOFF station gives that ship some passive improvement, but no real addition to its attack power.
You can think about that ship what you want, but even in TNG we saw the (diplomatic focussed Galaxy Class) having at least 3 tactical powers, FAW, BO and TS, if not even THY.
What have we seen of the Excelsior or the Ambassador?
So even if we take canon that ship has more capabilities than in this game.
Maybe if Mr. Rivera where a fan of it, we would have a better Galax class.
Its Engineering powers are the most passive when it comes to attacking an enemy.
And the Galaxy has 8 of them, 3 being Ensigns....
Even if we knew nothing about the Galaxy Class and if it wheren't such a well documented ship, it would still bother me. That BOFF layout is just insufficient, plain said.
Its console layout just yells "shoot at me!".
In my eyes, Cryptic made the Galaxy Class a big target practice for their beloved escorts, nothing else.
Just as dontdrunkimshoot said, other ships can tank much better, and still be able to add some Firepower or healing to a battle.
With just 2 tactical BOFF stations and 3 Ensgin Engineering stations, that ship is just inferior compared all other ships and in my eyes completely useless.
Heck, Cryptic even gave the Ambassador or the Excelsior a much more useful BOFF and Console Layout. Keeping the Galaxy Class the least useful/most passive Cruiser (even compared to it's precursors) just shows that some people at Cryptic have put their own personal preferences over anything Star Trek has shown and just ignoring common sense IMO.
I haven't heard a word from all the "Nay" sayers when we saw the BOFF & Console Layout of the Ambassador, but when it comes to the Galaxy they jump at it in an instance!
The fact that Cryptic keeps ignoring us, is just another sign of how little they care for reason.
I mean it is not like we would want something completely far-fetched. The Galaxy still wouldn't be a top of the line ship, but it wouldn't be such a pain to fly. But they don't care, they don't even listen if we bring up ideas for C-Store packs which would make some real Money. the only conclusion for me is that they much hate this ship abysmal.
I just don't understand why this is such a problem in the First place. The Galaxy Class is such a iconic ship, making it so "bad" just alienates a lot of people.
why do something like this at all?
Woud it hurt Mr. Rivera so much if that ship would actually be fun to fly?
I mean his favourite ship got in its Fleet variant 4 tactical consoles and a Lt. Cmdr tactical BOFF station, although it is almost 100 years older than the Galaxy, i don't think this doesn't make any sense.
My point is improving the Galaxy Class wouldn't change other ships at all. Everyones favourite ships would still be the same, even Mr. Riveras rediculusly strong Excelsior.
But keeping the Galaxy Class in such an inferior state is just unprofessional and unworthy for everyone.
EDIT:
Sorry for that wall of text.
I'm doing 5-8k enc dps when tanking STF's. Which is plenty for a tank to contribute, and holding threat off my buddies who are all in the 12-21k enc DPS range. And I'm basically invincible unless I personally TRIBBLE up a cooldown.
It is a tank, and an exceptional one.
If you would have cared to read, just as dontdrunkimshoot said, its 3 ensign Engineering BOFF share just too many cooldowns with each other. The Assault Crusier can attack better, the Star Cruiser can tank better (since its ensign and Lt. Science, which don't share their cooldown with engineering).
In my opinon, just making its Ensign engineering into a universal one won't do it.
There needs to be a complete change in its Console Layout as well as in its BOFF layout.
I think a BOFF & Console Layout like this would be appropriate for the Galaxy -R:
(this would be my personal favourite TBH.)
Engieering: Cmdr.
Engineering: Lt.
Science: Lt.
Tactical: Lt. Cmdr.
Fleet Variant has instead of the Lt. Science a Lt. Universal.
Consoles: 4 Engineering, 3 Science, 3 tactical.
(Fleet variant): 4 engineering, 3 science, 4 tactical
With such a BOFF & Console Layout, it would at least be a much more unique ship. Capable to do what it did on TV. Other ships got some fantasy BOFF & Console layouts, which have no basic in canon or don't even make some sense.
If the Galaxy where Mr. Riveras darling, we definitely would have a similar ship like this, IMO.
Well, if you DON'T want to get blown up all the time in PvP or Elite Difficulty, you either are unreasonable lucky or you just don't care if your ship gets destroyed all the time.
I don't, so i need to run TT almost constantly in combination with RSP you can withstand at least several minutes, in PvP.
I have no idea whom you where fighting, and i really don't care, but to say TT is not needed at all is almost a joke.
All of the needed chronology has been provided to you. The conflict existed during the Galaxy Class' design and development process.
As did conflict with the Tholians. The episode The Icarus Factor establishes that. In fact, there was ongoing and continued conflict with the Tholians from Kirk's era allllllll the way up through TNG. It was DS9 where we first hear tell of Tholian ambassadors being present on Earth.
I'm not sure why you keep clinging to your own internal dramatization about how the Federation-Cardassian war was akin to the first Gulf War. But your fan fic doesn't jive with the established documentation from the episodes or from the published Encyclopedia. (I won't even mention Memory Alpha, I'll just mention the written Encyclopedia, which is established canon).
But even you are conceding that during the ship's time in design and development, Starfleet was not at peace.
And then there's the Tholians.
The ship was not designed during peace time. The shows establish this. The ship was not designed for battle. It was deisgned to boldly go where no one has gone before. It can defend itself. Because hey, Tholians and Cardassians and cranky Klingons still existed. But it was designed to seek out new life and new civilizations.
the stupidest argument in the history of the galaxyR discussion is that of 'well its just fine, i can pve in it and it kills everything i shoot so its fine.' wrong noob, using it vs any other cruiser is a self nerf, anything else would do a better job in its place. its so much worse then other cruisers, that in pvp its practically unusable. completing pve in it is no accomplishment, i could do every mission save for stfs in a shuttle if i felt like it. don't need TT? go ahead and que up for pvp without it, and tell me you don't need it, lol
What's that fuss about if the Galaxy was built in peace times or not?
No one (not even Starfleets most hippiest Admirals) would comission their biggest ship ever built without appropriate offensive and defensive systems.
I just don't get why the Galaxy Class is such a problem in this game and why is this suddenly sucha a controversy at all...
But maybe i should just stop to care at all.
As long as Escorts are way more powerful than ships 10x the size, one should think people who like the Galaxy should have different problems then argue stuff like that.
It originally started way back when, someone said that the Excelsior was developed in a time of war/conflict with the Klingons. But that the Galaxy was developed during a time of peace. So that's why the Excelsior can outperform the Galaxy at T5.
Which, as seen, isn't true. Both ships were developed during times of conflict. And neither was developed to be a battleship. It's really not that big a deal, but one particular poster decided to try and write his own version of the Cardassian conflict and draw this tiny tiny piece of information out across this entire thread.
I agree.
I wanted to cite them as well, but forgot how to spell tzenkethi.
But yeah, throw them into the chronology and there's even more conflict going on.
The Galaxy was built as an exploration vessel. It was not built as a warship - which we clearly learn the Defiant was built for. There's a reason why the least "shoot-first" Captain in Starfleet was given command of the first Galaxy. It's mission was to load up with families and go out and try and make peaceful contact with various species. That does not mean the Galaxy was not a powerful ship. it was simply not a warship.
The ship was big because it was designed to house crew with their families. The ship could have been made many times smaller if they did not want it to house all those people. It was supposed to be impressive and majestic so that first contact aliens could see how grand the Federation was in building such huge ships.
It's not a problem. The Galaxy is 45 years old in this timeline. Technology has moved on - which is why Picard was given a Sovereign rather then another Galaxy after the D was destroyed. In this era the Galaxy is not supposed to be the best ship in the fleet any more then the Enterprise B was the best ship in the fleet once the Excelsior was introduced.
I agree with this statement. Loving A more then B doesn't mean that B sucks or that A is the best thing ever.
Size has little to do with power. As I said above, the Galaxy was designed to house civilians and transport relief supplies. The Defiant barely has space for its own crew.