any proof of that war being decades long. everything I saw it should have been a First gulf war senario and note the Ambassador was the first class to try the strips so they would be smaller. They expanded on it with the Galaxy. And the practically reason the Venture refit isn't seen is maybe a rush to have the ships cause the skip but truthfully the CGI people forgot them. Remember only a small number were planned to be built when the class was launched. With war looming they had to rush to make more. the Galxays seen in DW were likely incomplete on the inside compared to E-D. After the war they could have been completed and made fully operational.
Sisko fought in that the last war with the Tzenkethi.
"Captain's log, stardate 48962.5. We are twelve hours from the border. I haven't been in this area since the last Federation-Tzenkethi war. Being here brings back a lot of memories, most of them bad. "
Meaning there must have been more than one and it must have been more than one.
Sisko fought in that the last war with the Tzenkethi.
"Captain's log, stardate 48962.5. We are twelve hours from the border. I haven't been in this area since the last Federation-Tzenkethi war. Being here brings back a lot of memories, most of them bad. "
Meaning there must have been more than one and it must have been more than one.
It doesn't say when the others happen or how long they were.
we have posted the time line of the fed cardassian war in this thread
we have also posted the time line of the galaxy-class development in this thread
we have also posted the time line of the tholian attacks in this thread
but again i will summarize
galaxy-class development started in 2348 the USS Galaxy luanched in 2362 followed by the USS Yamato and USS Enterprise in 2365
the cardassian-federation war started in 2347 one year before the galaxy class desing and development was even started and it ended in 2367 and the truce was signed in 2370 creating the demilitarized zone and the maquis terrorist rebellion
Miles O'Brian served in the cardassian-federation war before being transferred to the Enterprise.
the galaxy was developed when the federation was in armed engagements and a full scale war saying the galaxy was aship developed in a time of peace is false witht eh information the show gave us. the even described miles as a war veteran
I didn't say they were. in the 2360's the Galaxy's closest rival were the Vorcha and D'Deridex. However the borg and the Dominion raised the bar and the Galaxy as is was lacking in that area. so the Venture refit to correct this error. to Fed's defense neither Borg or dominion could be predicted. And since you see the change in fleet layout, Galaxy and Excel get refits to fix this and the launch of more combat oriented ship classes as seen in First contact.
I can live with that, but where is that improvement in STO?
In STO the Excelsior got a combat upgrade for sure, but the Galaxy seems to be forgotten (if you ask Mr. Rivera, of course ).
I think we are all agree that the Galaxy class is way more adoptable to improvements than the Excelsior or the ambassador, especailly when it comes to its tactical systems. And yet it got the weakest Tactical BOFF stations and the fewest tactical Consoles, even compared to it's precursors. I just don't buy that.
Obviously the Galaxy class got upgrades in the Dominion War and before. I don't think Starfleet would have let it's biggest ship become obsolete, just because they are to lazy to give it some upgrades other ships obviously got.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Obviously the Galaxy class got upgrades in the Dominion War and before. I don't think Starfleet would have let it's biggest ship become obsolete, just because they are to lazy to give it some upgrades other ships obviously got.
Per the Voyager episode Timeless, Captain Geordi LaForge was commanding the USS Challenger, a Galaxy Class Starship in 2390.
we have posted the time line of the fed cardassian war in this thread
we have also posted the time line of the galaxy-class development in this thread
we have also posted the time line of the tholian attacks in this thread
but again i will summarize
galaxy-class development started in 2348 the USS Galaxy luanched in 2362 followed by the USS Yamato and USS Enterprise in 2365
the cardassian-federation war started in 2347 one year before the galaxy class desing and development was even started and it ended in 2367 and the truce was signed in 2370 creating the demilitarized zone and the maquis terrorist rebellion
Miles O'Brian served in the cardassian-federation war before being transferred to the Enterprise.
the galaxy was developed when the federation was in armed engagements and a full scale war saying the galaxy was aship developed in a time of peace is false witht eh information the show gave us. the even described miles as a war veteran
And memory alpha says there was cease fires, non agression treaties. so the Galaxy could be in those times, thus her exploration and science taking priority over tactical.
Per the Voyager episode Timeless, Captain Geordi LaForge was commanding the USS Challenger, a Galaxy Class Starship in 2390.
Yes i know, and....?
Do you mean the Galaxy Class didn't get any upgrade because La forge was in command of one?
Or do you mean it WAS upgraded BECAUSE LaForge got command of a Galaxy Class?
And memory alpha says there was cease fires, non agression treaties. so the Galaxy could be in those times, thus her exploration and science taking priority over tactical.
I think you should make some differences here. The Enterprise was clearly outfitted for Diplomatic, Exploration and Science missions.
What we saw in TNG was just a tamed version of the Galaxy class so to speak. We know it could be optimized for Battle very well, but that wasn't the Enterprises mission at all.
Of course if TNG would have taken place in the Dominion war, the enterprise would have got a full wartime refit. After everything we know about that ship class it shouldn't have taken very long to do that. At least faster than other comparable ships.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Why didn't Cryptic just add those funky phaser strips on the nacelles of the Galaxy Fleet variant? Since there's already that model used on the Dreadnought, it wouldn't take that much effort to add it onto the Fleet variant. I'd fly that.
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And memory alpha says there was cease fires, non agression treaties. so the Galaxy could be in those times, thus her exploration and science taking priority over tactical.
the time the enterprise was in services yes but that does not change the fact that during the design and development of the ship class there where. combat was not the Enterprise's mission
the enterprise was a the flagship it was a symbol it was not outfitted or manned for heavy combat. it was not the mission of the ship. but like in chain of command the ship could be set up for heavy combat witch is what the episode showed by deactivating non-essential systems and redirecting the power and crew to a more combat ready state.
when picard returned the ship went back to being set up for diplomacy and exploration
actually if the Gal-r was actually like how the Enterpise was in TNG more sci oriented. the ship would still be better then what it is now in the game
but i am one of the small majority that just want a tiny change i just want an ensign universal or a 3rd tac console don;t need both just one or the other and the ship would actually be ok-ish
the time the enterprise was in services yes but that does not change the fact that during the design and development of the ship class there where. combat was not the Enterprise's mission
the enterprise was a the flagship it was a symbol it was not outfitted or manned for heavy combat. it was not the mission of the ship. but like in chain of command the ship could be set up for heavy combat witch is what the episode showed by deactivating non-essential systems and redirecting the power and crew to a more combat ready state.
when picard returned the ship went back to being set up for diplomacy and exploration
actually if the Gal-r was actually like how the Enterpise was in TNG more sci oriented. the ship would still be better then what it is now in the game
but i am one of the small majority that just want a tiny change i just want an ensign universal or a 3rd tac console don;t need both just one or the other and the ship would actually be ok-ish
I'm not saying the Galaxy can't be a powerhouse. she is but her inherant design is a peace oriented vessel. She and the Sovie are reverse images of eachother. while both are capable of doing the same duties each has there strength. Gal exploration, science, and mobile conference. Sovie is the defender able to take and dish a beating on the federation''s enemies and even more so after DW.
not talking about the sov. the sov was designed to take on the borg for this is sacrifies the flexability the galaxy had. the galaxy could be both a ship of combat no where near the level of the sov though and a ship of diplomacy and exploration it was a jack of all trades it was a multi-mission vessel
but the galaxy right now is weaker then the excelsior and the ambassador 2 ships it replaced. at the least it should be on par with them damage output wise with 3 tac consoles but it's not. and both have better boff seating making the galaxy completely pointless.
the ambassador makes more sense as an exploration cruiser with it's boff seating then the galaxy does. with the galaxy's seating all it's going to explore is how to be a space rock that tickles
What we saw in TNG was just a tamed version of the Galaxy class so to speak. We know it could be optimized for Battle very well, but that wasn't the Enterprises mission at all.
We've seen a wartime developed, combat oriented version of a Galaxy at least once that I can think of, in Yesterday's Enterprise.
I don't recall it being particularly impressive.
The best reference I can think of for judging the capabilities of a Galaxy class would be the relative parity between a Galaxy and a D'Deridex; there seems to be a general understanding in the series that any fight between the two would result in both ships being destroyed.
Any other TNG fight I can think of is relatively one-sided, including the fight at the end of Yesterday's Enterprise.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
And memory alpha says there was cease fires, non agression treaties. so the Galaxy could be in those times, thus her exploration and science taking priority over tactical.
When a vessel is designed is not a variable in regards to it's capabilities. The Defiant, Akira, Saber, Steamrunner, Sovereign and Norway class vessels were all conceived of and designed during peacetime. Please explain to me how any of the above are meant primarily for peaceful pursuits.
We've seen a wartime developed, combat oriented version of a Galaxy at least once that I can think of, in Yesterday's Enterprise.
I don't recall it being particularly impressive.
The best reference I can think of for judging the capabilities of a Galaxy class would be the relative parity between a Galaxy and a D'Deridex; there seems to be a general understanding in the series that any fight between the two would result in both ships being destroyed.
Any other TNG fight I can think of is relatively one-sided, including the fight at the end of Yesterday's Enterprise.
You shouldn't forget that the Special effects budget at TNG didn't allow action filled space combat like Star Trek: Enterprise showed for example.
Perswonally i found it impressing that the Yesterdays Enterprise was able after severyl minutes of tanking 3 K'vort class Battlecruisers, it was still be able to destroy one of them with just one sinlge attack.
I think if the Enterprise didn't have to distract the Klingon ships to give the Ent -C time to escape, it surel could have destroyed them. But the risk of the Enterprise being damaged by them obviously was too high.
Even if this is just one episode showing a Battle ready Galaxy Class in action, it should have been enough for Cryptics devs to make it at least possible to outfit a Galaxy To do Damage.
They did the same with the Excelsior IMO. But of course when it comes to the Galaxy Class, everything tha makes her look bad does have more weight. :rolleyes:
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
We've seen a wartime developed, combat oriented version of a Galaxy at least once that I can think of, in Yesterday's Enterprise.
I don't recall it being particularly impressive.
The best reference I can think of for judging the capabilities of a Galaxy class would be the relative parity between a Galaxy and a D'Deridex; there seems to be a general understanding in the series that any fight between the two would result in both ships being destroyed.
Any other TNG fight I can think of is relatively one-sided, including the fight at the end of Yesterday's Enterprise.
yes. a fight versus 3 ships of comparable power while being tied down to the spot by having to protect a ship that was forced to fly straight with slow speed. Yes. totally fair assessment.
+ the enterprise got a freak hit with the hit to phaser couplings.
Remember how she UTTERLY WASTED that k'vort with that phaser shot? that is what people mean when they say the Galaxy has the most scary phaser arrays outside of a freaking starbase.
+ remember generations? rikers idiocy cost them the battle. (yeah how about firing everything.... instead of 1 phaser once)
other noteworthy Galaxy dispalys:
The husnock vessel: See the amount of firepower the Galaxy spewd there? too bad the enemy was powered by the local god.
Tomalak felt secure only with 2 warbirds ambushing picard, and instantly went away after losing his 2 warbird vs galaxy advantage.
And lastly: not a single Galaxy class vessel was lost after the dominion war got really hot. The odyssey was starfleets final lesson.
After her, no other Galaxy was ever seen or reported destroyed. heck, they started upgrading them with and herding them into wings to use as battering rams..... and it worked. To bad they only had so few...
Size, or rather volume matters. Internal volume. And guess which ship has lots of that. Yes. The galaxy. Room to fit all the stuff that makes tiny packages like the defiant so good. Why ANYONE makes arguments that a ship the size of a galaxy (big cruisers in general) should not have ludicrous firepower is beyond me.
You are arguing that the tech employed to make ships like the defiant such a threat to even bigger ships is not available to implement on a flying storehouse like the galaxy? Ablative armor? check. a more efficient warp core that is still the size of a several story building OH YES CHECK THAT. Phaser arrays so large only starbases outsize them? Check.
Every argument made ever as to why escorts are so good must be applied to why cruisers would be better. Because the ships are bigger and you can put a lot more stuff into them and onto them. no-one has ever answered that question: why would you think all the advanced made to make escorts viable are not applicable to cruisers, ships that btw have the spare volume and sheer bulk to profit a lot more from such advances than cramped, tiny ships?
Do you think the dominion, a warmongering conglomerate of DOOM, builds warcrusiers 2 times the size of galaxies if the would think just building more jemmy bugs would be better?!
Do the borg crusie around in escorts? no. they send in huge TRIBBLE cubes. Because VOLUME-MATTERS.
When a vessel is designed is not a variable in regards to it's capabilities. The Defiant, Akira, Saber, Steamrunner, Sovereign and Norway class vessels were all conceived of and designed during peacetime. Please explain to me how any of the above are meant primarily for peaceful pursuits.
Difference is they knew war was coming. They were aware of the Dominion, relations with the Klingons was down. Where the Galaxy they didn't see a big war looming.
Funny how it didn't happen to the Bozeman, which went on it's merry way while the Enterprise spun out of control.
Look, I'm all for the Galaxy getting some love, but this talk of "Hur dur Cryptic hate TNG." is a bit silly considering that TNG depicted the Galaxy class as a lumbering, badly designed, unsafe at any speed cruise liner who's designers cut corners to the point that the ship was powered by a hair trigger bomb and which ultimately was destroyed by a Klingon garbage scow.
Whereas DS9 worshipped the Defiant to the point it flew around one-shotting Jem'hadar ships and single-handedly winning battles.
Funny how it didn't happen to the Bozeman, which went on it's merry way while the Enterprise spun out of control.
Look, I'm all for the Galaxy getting some love, but this talk of "Hur dur Cryptic hate TNG." is a bit silly considering that TNG depicted the Galaxy class as a lumbering, badly designed, unsafe at any speed cruise liner who's designers cut corners to the point that the ship was powered by a hair trigger bomb and which ultimately was destroyed by a Klingon garbage scow.
Whereas DS9 worshipped the Defiant to the point it flew around one-shotting Jem'hadar ships and single-handedly winning battles.
Fine, I have a better example. The Reliant had one of it's nacelles destroyed.
It was crippled, but it didn't explode.
Not to mention the numerous ships that suffered severe hull stress and damage and didn't explode. The fact is, the TNG era Enterprise was a flying bomb waiting to go off.
Difference is they knew war was coming. They were aware of the Dominion, relations with the Klingons was down. Where the Galaxy they didn't see a big war looming.
And?
When maintaining military readiness, just because there isn't a war looming is absolutely no reason not to design tactical capabilities into one's spaceships, boats, planes or vehicles.
Besides, as you readily admit, the Galaxy was designed and built during or slightly after the Cardassian War. Why oh why would you downgrade tactical capabilities during a fight with an opponent almost universally viewed as only slightly more trustworthy than the Romulans?
And lastly: not a single Galaxy class vessel was lost after the dominion war got really hot. The odyssey was starfleets final lesson.
After her, no other Galaxy was ever seen or reported destroyed. heck, they started upgrading them with and herding them into wings to use as battering rams..... and it worked. To bad they only had so few...
I'm fairly certain that there was at least one Galaxy in the fleet that the Allies sent to reinforce Chin'Toka after the Breen entered the War. In addition, there more than likely were Galaxies in the 7th fleet that was utterly decimated.
Just because something isn't explicitly shown on-screen in DS9 didn't mean it couldn't happen. Especially with a quadrant spanning war.
When maintaining military readiness, just because there isn't a war looming is absolutely no reason not to design tactical capabilities into one's spaceships, boats, planes or vehicles.
Besides, as you readily admit, the Galaxy was designed and built during or slightly after the Cardassian War. Why oh why would you downgrade tactical capabilities during a fight with an opponent almost universally viewed as only slightly more trustworthy than the Romulans?
To be fair, this was the era where Starfleet was apparently handing out stupid pills to everyone and you had things like children on starships being sent to the borders of hostile space, and Riker going "lol we're not a military snarf snarf".
Fine, I have a better example. The Reliant had one of it's nacelles destroyed.
It was crippled, but it didn't explode.
Not to mention the numerous ships that suffered severe hull stress and damage and didn't explode. The fact is, the TNG era Enterprise was a flying bomb waiting to go off.
Which happened every other week and brings us back to my point, the class depicted in TNG was a floating joke. Whether it be intentional or due to unimaginative writers being unable to come up with drama in any other fashion.
To be fair, this was the era where Starfleet was apparently handing out stupid pills to everyone and you had things like children on starships being sent to the borders of hostile space, and Riker going "lol we're not a military snarf snarf".
I'll cite you Benjamin Maxwell, and Miles O'Brien. Starfleet Officers who very much embodied the role and mindset of soldier, and were of the era of the Cardassian War.
When maintaining military readiness, just because there isn't a war looming is absolutely no reason not to design tactical capabilities into one's spaceships, boats, planes or vehicles.
Besides, as you readily admit, the Galaxy was designed and built during or slightly after the Cardassian War. Why oh why would you downgrade tactical capabilities during a fight with an opponent almost universally viewed as only slightly more trustworthy than the Romulans?
Why did they give up colonies if they won. Federation rulers are stupid. And Note E-D disabled an early Galor in a couple of minutes and Phoenix destroyed several. The Borg or the Dominion could not have been forseen and the fed miscaculated on how much firepower she would really need.
QUOTE=stirling191;8496671]I'm fairly certain that there was at least one Galaxy in the fleet that the Allies sent to reinforce Chin'Toka after the Breen entered the War. In addition, there more than likely were Galaxies in the 7th fleet that was utterly decimated.
Just because something isn't explicitly shown on-screen in DS9 didn't mean it couldn't happen. Especially with a quadrant spanning war.[/QUOTE]
I'll cite you Benjamin Maxwell, and Miles O'Brien. Starfleet Officers who very much embodied the role and mindset of soldier, and were of the era of the Cardassian War.
And considering O'Brien was in his thirties, the war could have been early in his career. and at that point the Galaxy maybe 5 years old during Wounded.
Why did they give up colonies if they won. Federation rulers are stupid. And Note E-D disabled an early Galor in a couple of minutes and Phoenix destroyed several. The Borg or the Dominion could not have been forseen and the fed miscaculated on how much firepower she would really need.
Emphasis mine. Galaxy class ships seriously outgunned Nebulas, a class that post-dates the Galaxy and was described as having "A huge arsenal of weapons".
And considering O'Brien was in his thirties, the war could have been early in his career. and at that point the Galaxy maybe 5 years old during Wounded.
And? Your argument is that nobody in the Federation knew how to be a soldier, or thought like one. You've been provided with examples of how that is patently false.
Comments
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Federation-Tzenkethi_War
Sisko fought in that the last war with the Tzenkethi.
"Captain's log, stardate 48962.5. We are twelve hours from the border. I haven't been in this area since the last Federation-Tzenkethi war. Being here brings back a lot of memories, most of them bad. "
Meaning there must have been more than one and it must have been more than one.
It doesn't say when the others happen or how long they were.
we have also posted the time line of the galaxy-class development in this thread
we have also posted the time line of the tholian attacks in this thread
but again i will summarize
galaxy-class development started in 2348 the USS Galaxy luanched in 2362 followed by the USS Yamato and USS Enterprise in 2365
the cardassian-federation war started in 2347 one year before the galaxy class desing and development was even started and it ended in 2367 and the truce was signed in 2370 creating the demilitarized zone and the maquis terrorist rebellion
Miles O'Brian served in the cardassian-federation war before being transferred to the Enterprise.
the galaxy was developed when the federation was in armed engagements and a full scale war saying the galaxy was aship developed in a time of peace is false witht eh information the show gave us. the even described miles as a war veteran
In STO the Excelsior got a combat upgrade for sure, but the Galaxy seems to be forgotten (if you ask Mr. Rivera, of course
I think we are all agree that the Galaxy class is way more adoptable to improvements than the Excelsior or the ambassador, especailly when it comes to its tactical systems. And yet it got the weakest Tactical BOFF stations and the fewest tactical Consoles, even compared to it's precursors. I just don't buy that.
Obviously the Galaxy class got upgrades in the Dominion War and before. I don't think Starfleet would have let it's biggest ship become obsolete, just because they are to lazy to give it some upgrades other ships obviously got.
Per the Voyager episode Timeless, Captain Geordi LaForge was commanding the USS Challenger, a Galaxy Class Starship in 2390.
And memory alpha says there was cease fires, non agression treaties. so the Galaxy could be in those times, thus her exploration and science taking priority over tactical.
Yes i know, and....?
Do you mean the Galaxy Class didn't get any upgrade because La forge was in command of one?
Or do you mean it WAS upgraded BECAUSE LaForge got command of a Galaxy Class?
I'm sorry but i am a bit confused right now...:o
I think you should make some differences here. The Enterprise was clearly outfitted for Diplomatic, Exploration and Science missions.
What we saw in TNG was just a tamed version of the Galaxy class so to speak. We know it could be optimized for Battle very well, but that wasn't the Enterprises mission at all.
Of course if TNG would have taken place in the Dominion war, the enterprise would have got a full wartime refit. After everything we know about that ship class it shouldn't have taken very long to do that. At least faster than other comparable ships.
Why didn't Cryptic just add those funky phaser strips on the nacelles of the Galaxy Fleet variant? Since there's already that model used on the Dreadnought, it wouldn't take that much effort to add it onto the Fleet variant. I'd fly that.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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the time the enterprise was in services yes but that does not change the fact that during the design and development of the ship class there where. combat was not the Enterprise's mission
the enterprise was a the flagship it was a symbol it was not outfitted or manned for heavy combat. it was not the mission of the ship. but like in chain of command the ship could be set up for heavy combat witch is what the episode showed by deactivating non-essential systems and redirecting the power and crew to a more combat ready state.
when picard returned the ship went back to being set up for diplomacy and exploration
actually if the Gal-r was actually like how the Enterpise was in TNG more sci oriented. the ship would still be better then what it is now in the game
but i am one of the small majority that just want a tiny change i just want an ensign universal or a 3rd tac console don;t need both just one or the other and the ship would actually be ok-ish
Nah. I mean that episode of Voyager supports what you were saying. The Galaxy continued to be a relevant ship in Starfleet.
I'm not saying the Galaxy can't be a powerhouse. she is but her inherant design is a peace oriented vessel. She and the Sovie are reverse images of eachother. while both are capable of doing the same duties each has there strength. Gal exploration, science, and mobile conference. Sovie is the defender able to take and dish a beating on the federation''s enemies and even more so after DW.
but the galaxy right now is weaker then the excelsior and the ambassador 2 ships it replaced. at the least it should be on par with them damage output wise with 3 tac consoles but it's not. and both have better boff seating making the galaxy completely pointless.
the ambassador makes more sense as an exploration cruiser with it's boff seating then the galaxy does. with the galaxy's seating all it's going to explore is how to be a space rock that tickles
I don't recall it being particularly impressive.
The best reference I can think of for judging the capabilities of a Galaxy class would be the relative parity between a Galaxy and a D'Deridex; there seems to be a general understanding in the series that any fight between the two would result in both ships being destroyed.
Any other TNG fight I can think of is relatively one-sided, including the fight at the end of Yesterday's Enterprise.
When a vessel is designed is not a variable in regards to it's capabilities. The Defiant, Akira, Saber, Steamrunner, Sovereign and Norway class vessels were all conceived of and designed during peacetime. Please explain to me how any of the above are meant primarily for peaceful pursuits.
You shouldn't forget that the Special effects budget at TNG didn't allow action filled space combat like Star Trek: Enterprise showed for example.
Perswonally i found it impressing that the Yesterdays Enterprise was able after severyl minutes of tanking 3 K'vort class Battlecruisers, it was still be able to destroy one of them with just one sinlge attack.
I think if the Enterprise didn't have to distract the Klingon ships to give the Ent -C time to escape, it surel could have destroyed them. But the risk of the Enterprise being damaged by them obviously was too high.
Even if this is just one episode showing a Battle ready Galaxy Class in action, it should have been enough for Cryptics devs to make it at least possible to outfit a Galaxy To do Damage.
They did the same with the Excelsior IMO. But of course when it comes to the Galaxy Class, everything tha makes her look bad does have more weight. :rolleyes:
yes. a fight versus 3 ships of comparable power while being tied down to the spot by having to protect a ship that was forced to fly straight with slow speed. Yes. totally fair assessment.
+ the enterprise got a freak hit with the hit to phaser couplings.
Remember how she UTTERLY WASTED that k'vort with that phaser shot? that is what people mean when they say the Galaxy has the most scary phaser arrays outside of a freaking starbase.
+ remember generations? rikers idiocy cost them the battle. (yeah how about firing everything.... instead of 1 phaser once)
other noteworthy Galaxy dispalys:
The husnock vessel: See the amount of firepower the Galaxy spewd there? too bad the enemy was powered by the local god.
Tomalak felt secure only with 2 warbirds ambushing picard, and instantly went away after losing his 2 warbird vs galaxy advantage.
And lastly: not a single Galaxy class vessel was lost after the dominion war got really hot. The odyssey was starfleets final lesson.
After her, no other Galaxy was ever seen or reported destroyed. heck, they started upgrading them with and herding them into wings to use as battering rams..... and it worked. To bad they only had so few...
Size, or rather volume matters. Internal volume. And guess which ship has lots of that. Yes. The galaxy. Room to fit all the stuff that makes tiny packages like the defiant so good. Why ANYONE makes arguments that a ship the size of a galaxy (big cruisers in general) should not have ludicrous firepower is beyond me.
You are arguing that the tech employed to make ships like the defiant such a threat to even bigger ships is not available to implement on a flying storehouse like the galaxy? Ablative armor? check. a more efficient warp core that is still the size of a several story building OH YES CHECK THAT. Phaser arrays so large only starbases outsize them? Check.
Every argument made ever as to why escorts are so good must be applied to why cruisers would be better. Because the ships are bigger and you can put a lot more stuff into them and onto them. no-one has ever answered that question: why would you think all the advanced made to make escorts viable are not applicable to cruisers, ships that btw have the spare volume and sheer bulk to profit a lot more from such advances than cramped, tiny ships?
Do you think the dominion, a warmongering conglomerate of DOOM, builds warcrusiers 2 times the size of galaxies if the would think just building more jemmy bugs would be better?!
Do the borg crusie around in escorts? no. they send in huge TRIBBLE cubes. Because VOLUME-MATTERS.
Therefore it should explode if you lightly tap it's warp nacelles.
Difference is they knew war was coming. They were aware of the Dominion, relations with the Klingons was down. Where the Galaxy they didn't see a big war looming.
that should happen to ANY ship
Funny how it didn't happen to the Bozeman, which went on it's merry way while the Enterprise spun out of control.
Look, I'm all for the Galaxy getting some love, but this talk of "Hur dur Cryptic hate TNG." is a bit silly considering that TNG depicted the Galaxy class as a lumbering, badly designed, unsafe at any speed cruise liner who's designers cut corners to the point that the ship was powered by a hair trigger bomb and which ultimately was destroyed by a Klingon garbage scow.
Whereas DS9 worshipped the Defiant to the point it flew around one-shotting Jem'hadar ships and single-handedly winning battles.
no proof of that, she could have died to
Fine, I have a better example. The Reliant had one of it's nacelles destroyed.
It was crippled, but it didn't explode.
Not to mention the numerous ships that suffered severe hull stress and damage and didn't explode. The fact is, the TNG era Enterprise was a flying bomb waiting to go off.
And?
When maintaining military readiness, just because there isn't a war looming is absolutely no reason not to design tactical capabilities into one's spaceships, boats, planes or vehicles.
Besides, as you readily admit, the Galaxy was designed and built during or slightly after the Cardassian War. Why oh why would you downgrade tactical capabilities during a fight with an opponent almost universally viewed as only slightly more trustworthy than the Romulans?
I'm fairly certain that there was at least one Galaxy in the fleet that the Allies sent to reinforce Chin'Toka after the Breen entered the War. In addition, there more than likely were Galaxies in the 7th fleet that was utterly decimated.
Just because something isn't explicitly shown on-screen in DS9 didn't mean it couldn't happen. Especially with a quadrant spanning war.
To be fair, this was the era where Starfleet was apparently handing out stupid pills to everyone and you had things like children on starships being sent to the borders of hostile space, and Riker going "lol we're not a military snarf snarf".
It's called Plot death
Which happened every other week and brings us back to my point, the class depicted in TNG was a floating joke. Whether it be intentional or due to unimaginative writers being unable to come up with drama in any other fashion.
I'll cite you Benjamin Maxwell, and Miles O'Brien. Starfleet Officers who very much embodied the role and mindset of soldier, and were of the era of the Cardassian War.
You don't base an entire premise around plot armor.
Why did they give up colonies if they won. Federation rulers are stupid. And Note E-D disabled an early Galor in a couple of minutes and Phoenix destroyed several. The Borg or the Dominion could not have been forseen and the fed miscaculated on how much firepower she would really need.
QUOTE=stirling191;8496671]I'm fairly certain that there was at least one Galaxy in the fleet that the Allies sent to reinforce Chin'Toka after the Breen entered the War. In addition, there more than likely were Galaxies in the 7th fleet that was utterly decimated.
Just because something isn't explicitly shown on-screen in DS9 didn't mean it couldn't happen. Especially with a quadrant spanning war.[/QUOTE]
Yes some probably were lost.
And considering O'Brien was in his thirties, the war could have been early in his career. and at that point the Galaxy maybe 5 years old during Wounded.
Emphasis mine. Galaxy class ships seriously outgunned Nebulas, a class that post-dates the Galaxy and was described as having "A huge arsenal of weapons".
And? Your argument is that nobody in the Federation knew how to be a soldier, or thought like one. You've been provided with examples of how that is patently false.