Well the scaling seems not to be a good solution for now cause no matter wich way you look at it, there will be a mean to exploit.
Either with large fleet kicking members, or small fleet not wanting to have more members in so the amount of requirements stay at low.
Now there a simple solution that have been put on the table : reward ALL events with a possibility to either choose the bound reward or the fleet mark. And make so it reward an acceptable amount of it and not some ridiculous bits.
What I don't agree with is that it's not OK......I did NOT know this when my fleet was created waay back in head start before the game launched. This whole Large Fleet favouritism stinks.....I and my fleet mate have been perfectly happy to not join other larger fleets for the WHOLE time leading up to this.........but now we have ACTUALLY discussed leaving our beloved head start fleet.......NO Why the hell should we? FIX THIS.....if you can't create an option for smaller fleets to have the same access to shiney sparkly pixels that the large fleets do.....then quite simply get out of making games.
You COULD introduce fleet ship limitations......like perhaps a daily allowance of fleet ships and mods BASED on the membership numbers of fleets.....per account if you want to be really scroogey.
But no......still as Blebbington said it's odd that the fm nerf happens just after certain 'spesh' fleets hit t5 eh?
Dude! You will have access to the same "shineys", it's just going to take you longer to get there. There is no favoritism towards large Fleets, it's just simple math. More people filling the bucket means the bucket gets filled faster.
I tell you, once these Starbases start hitting Tier 5, a lot of people are gonna find themselves without a bucket, because those Fleets won't need 500 members anymore.
And why is everyone so hot to burn through everything so fast? Every time anything new comes out, people burn through it as fast as they can. Burn through Starbase Advancement. Burn through Reputation Tracks. Once you've done all that, what are you left with? Grinding the same content, except now you have no purpose to it. Why rush through it all?
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
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Well the scaling seems not to be a good solution for now cause no matter wich way you look at it, there will be a mean to exploit.
Either with large fleet kicking members, or small fleet not wanting to have more members in so the amount of requirements stay at low.
Now there a simple solution that have been put on the table : reward ALL events with a possibility to either choose the bound reward or the fleet mark. And make so it reward an acceptable amount of it and not some ridiculous bits.
60 fleet marks seems acceptable in that case, with the bonus that you can buy with your fleet credits you get 70 fleet marks for that limited time till you re-up your bonus.
There has to be a minimum that a fleet can select to prevent said 'exploit' from happening. If you have a fleet of 167 you would not be able to select a maximum fleet size lower than your current fleet size.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
And you don't think there won't be screaming and protesting and gnashing of teeth over how "unfair" that would be that they can't become a smaller Fleet simply because they want to. And those Fleets that have 100+ members yet only have a dozen active members, they should be penalized with having to always pay higher costs because they can't drop their maximum membership to what is actually active? Best just to leave it alone.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Dude! You will have access to the same "shineys", it's just going to take you longer to get there. There is no favoritism towards large Fleets, it's just simple math. More people filling the bucket means the bucket gets filled faster.
I tell you, once these Starbases start hitting Tier 5, a lot of people are gonna find themselves without a bucket, because those Fleets won't need 500 members anymore.
And why is everyone so hot to burn through everything so fast? Every time anything new comes out, people burn through it as fast as they can. Burn through Starbase Advancement. Burn through Reputation Tracks. Once you've done all that, what are you left with? Grinding the same content, except now you have no purpose to it. Why rush through it all?
Cause people want it now! :rolleyes:
I'm okay with things taking a long time, it's just when it takes a long time, and it's not fun. Playing the foundry was fun. The "Fleet" activities never have been.
Yes and you should have killed that officer - there should be no communication while cloaked - just like running silent in a sub hiding below a destroyer.
Sound cannot travel in a vacuum. The submarine comparison does not hold. Yet the Devs continue to mistakenly believe otherwise.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
Well the scaling seems not to be a good solution for now cause no matter wich way you look at it, there will be a mean to exploit.
Either with large fleet kicking members, or small fleet not wanting to have more members in so the amount of requirements stay at low.
Now there a simple solution that have been put on the table : reward ALL events with a possibility to either choose the bound reward or the fleet mark. And make so it reward an acceptable amount of it and not some ridiculous bits.
I made a similar proposal on page 152 of this thread about rewards and again in its own thread titled Reward Revamp: A Proposal to Cryptic Studios. (Sorry, I'm on my phone and can't manage a link at the moment.) Admittedly it's a bit of a read, but it deals with more than just Fleet Marks.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Surely with this sort of momentum behind this thread (and the others before it) an urgent response from the higher ups is warranted?
We are the customers after all.
EDIT
200th post yay.
We generate the revenue. Don't make us mad.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
I'm okay with things taking a long time, it's just when it takes a long time, and it's not fun. Playing the foundry was fun. The "Fleet" activities never have been.
Demand of instant gratification is part of what's wrong here.:rolleyes: LOL
I agree that the fun needs to be put back into the game.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Dude! You will have access to the same "shineys", it's just going to take you longer to get there. There is no favoritism towards large Fleets, it's just simple math. More people filling the bucket means the bucket gets filled faster.
I tell you, once these Starbases start hitting Tier 5, a lot of people are gonna find themselves without a bucket, because those Fleets won't need 500 members anymore.
And why is everyone so hot to burn through everything so fast? Every time anything new comes out, people burn through it as fast as they can. Burn through Starbase Advancement. Burn through Reputation Tracks. Once you've done all that, what are you left with? Grinding the same content, except now you have no purpose to it. Why rush through it all?
Who said anything about rushing through it?
Been here 3 years......rushing is not a concern.....what is a concern is that for my fleet is not simply taking a fair while to upgrade.....it is stagnant. Let's not mention my KDF Fleet..... lol @ getting enough people to to queue up for KDF Fleet Actions......
Again....rushing is not a problem.....to try and make out that is the problem here is just shortsighted. As an ex EVE player I KNOW what waiting for the cool stuff is all about....if you don't get that...start a new char in EVE and create a skill plan to fly a carrier let alone the skills to kit it out with mods.
Been here 3 years......rushing is not a concern.....what is a concern is that for my fleet is not simply taking a fair while to upgrade.....it is stagnant. Let's not mention my KDF Fleet..... lol @ getting enough people to to queue up for KDF Fleet Actions......
Again....rushing is not a problem.....to try and make out that is the problem here is just shortsighted. As an ex EVE player I KNOW what waiting for the cool stuff is all about....if you don't get that...start a new char in EVE and create a skill plan to fly a carrier let alone the skills to kit it out with mods.
Well, the guy I was responding to for one seemed to be in a bit of a rush. If rushing is not a concern for you, then good on ya, mate. But there are those in this game that burn through new content as fast as they can, and then complain about not having anything to do. I never once suggested though, that rushing was the big problem with STO.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Been here 3 years......rushing is not a concern.....what is a concern is that for my fleet is not simply taking a fair while to upgrade.....it is stagnant. Let's not mention my KDF Fleet..... lol @ getting enough people to to queue up for KDF Fleet Actions......
Again....rushing is not a problem.....to try and make out that is the problem here is just shortsighted. As an ex EVE player I KNOW what waiting for the cool stuff is all about....if you don't get that...start a new char in EVE and create a skill plan to fly a carrier let alone the skills to kit it out with mods.
I miss my Nyx....I know exactly what you mean there, made me smirk a little
But yes, patience smatience....we're talking about a much different issue here.
Add more fleet events mission to the PvE queues so we get more variety, playing the same missions over and over is boring. I have only being playing for about 4 months and im sick of the repetitiveness, I feel sorry for the people that have been playing for 3 years.
Meow, I just wanted to speak out my support to Olivia in this topic. She's one of the most mature members I've met in the game since I started playing, and she's standing up for the community. If there was to be a council formed, she should be leading that council.
Anyway, I have left STO in December 2012 and I am not coming back. Too bad I got lifetime, but this time it's just not worth to return anymore. I've had a half-year-break before and when I returned for the first time, I've had fun for less than another half year. I used to have two mains (FED, KDF) and two alts on each side, each career in each faction possible. After the changes made in Season 7, I had to drop all alts and after some time I even dropped the KDF main. In December, I finally decided to even drop my last character which was the only one with a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship. I didn't even bother saving the EC and gear I had, I just pressed "Delete Character" and it was done with.
By now, it's not worth to have a single character anymore, because all you can basically do is to not have fun. Also, since the game went free-to-play, doing PUGs is a lot harder as there are so many AFKers around. Going free-to-play was the biggest mistake in my opinion, but it might have just saved the game back then as it was in such a bad state when Atari was at the wheel. Now with PWE at the wheel, it's not a lot better, but it's just that much better that it's able to survive in this F2P state. However, it's not guaranteed to survive another 3 years, even with F2P, if such actions and decisions are taken and executed.
However, with experience, I began to realise that if a thread is going to the 3-digit pages, at least it's noticed by not just Dan Stahl who's like in the middle of two fronts (PWE on one, customer base / his own team on the other), but also the exectives at PWE. I won't come back to STO, but I hope for those who are still trying to keep this place alive and at least a little bit kindergarten-free, that your fight here is doing some good.
Go Olivia! *hug for you* Go community! Go us! All for one and one for all, in the true sense of the Federation.
~ Eris The Vorta
"Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Long story short, these are the major issues and I hope Cryptic will learn something from it:
A big change was made with almost no notice - a patch to Tribble the day before it goes live (note the patch itself didn't even mention the removal of fleet marks from IOR), with no prior dev hints or comments that it'd happen
A major loss of a needed resource, with no alternatives ready to go (Stahl said they plan to add more fleet mark sources...over the next three months or so. That is not comforting!).
Follow-up: I give credit to Dan starting this thread (the third one on the fleet mark issue) but posting on a Thursday and then having nothing to report for several days does not calm a very upset player base. This thread is now the most-posted in the Federation News Network since the forum upgrade in June).
So for future reference: give warning of major changes, make sure dev-made changes to the economy have some way to not wildly disrupt supply/demand, anticipate player response before it becomes a firestorm.
And Brandon: you have a tough job. I do appreciate your dedication to reading every single post in the thread.
Whohaa, I had great fun in yesterdays pvp again. Was flying in a cruiser and in order to do some dmg, I had as usual my trico mines and Beta2 running. But now after the nerv....
Ok, what happened.... a single Moebius ship came along, stunned me with a subnuke beam, took away my aux with a graviton beam and plunged a AttackPattern Beta into me (as I was stunned by the subnuke, tac team was useless) and shot me into pieces in seconds with his DHC. A 1vs1 situation with no chance for me to survive or escape.
GREAT BALANCING Cryptic.... You guys really made my day.
In the past I was dropping some trico mines behind my ship to cover my TRIBBLE, but now after the nerv they dont do any good dmg any more. The escorts laugh at them. Even Quantum mines do more dmg per volley now.
Thanks for buffing the escorts again !
And by the way, for every bug solved, 2 new ones pop up. Dont you have a Quality Control in your company? This game is really starting to TRIBBLE me off.... me fool who was stupid enough to invest cash into a lifetime.... Arghhhhhhh......
Yeah I was trying to figure out a way to afford a lifetime sub without my wife hanging me by my ankles and beating me to a mushy pulp with her Wok, But after the recent changes I'd be a complete moron to drop $300 on a sub for a game that CONSTANTLY pisses me off, yet for some reason I can't quit leave, it was said before its like watching a train wreck, or a toddler playing in the freeway, anticipating a horrible disaster, yet cannot look away from it.
Can't they see this is hurting the consumer? This isn't the way to win hearts and open wallets guys! FIX IT. GIVE ME A REASON TO PAY...
I am sooo sorry that I also have to add my negative two cents here, but after staring at the screen and the game for hours in the last few days, not knowing what to do except for clicking the doff UI from time to time...my "love" is fading..
even making my earned gold shoulders worthless some weeks ago wasnt this hard for me, I was OK with the dilitium influence you programmed into every little piece of the game, and above my lifettime account I sent you more than 1000,- Euro in the last 3 years...you made the foundry worthless again, and all other content (as nice as it is).. I just cant repeat it anymore after hundrets of times...
I am member of a small fleet and my goal was to get fleetmarks and progress the fleetbase and wait for some other fleetmembers to return to STO one day.. but now there is nothing left to do for me.
Sad..but now my dog is happy ..I'll go for a walk with him now..done with the grind) LLAP
I am really really really wondering...
I run a fleet with less then 150 (~50players) chars and we have a lot of active players, at least 20-30 per day with more then one char.
We never had any issue with fleetmarks, we waste fletmarks in stupid projects, just because we have so much.
Everyone in the fleet is earning the max. amount of daily dilithium! There is enough dilithium to earn. We don`t need more unrefined Dilithium, it is just fine.
But what we need is get this stupid 8000 refine limit raised. Most of my fleet mates have tons of unrefined dilithium, because they are earning more then they are able to refine!!!
Increase this to 12.000 per day instead of 8000, raising the embassy to tier 2 was a pain because of 1.000.000 dilithium.
And I am just afraid about how long it will take to finish T4 starbase...
I probably will never own my absolute favourite Fleet T5 Assault cruiser, because this is far above our abilities and everyone in our fleet is willing to spend as much as possible.
There is every day a run on our new projects who can fill in his resources first.. But T5 for medium fleets is a no chance at all!
Forgive my bad english, I had not enough sleep the last nights...
If there was to be a council formed, she should be leading that council.
If there was to be a council formed?
I take it then you weren't around when Cryptic tried that one last time HAHAHAHA!!!
A player council that was created with no ELECTED representatives with certain 'Special' people *coughBorticuscough* among other unknown folks getting a conference call every week with the Devs so they could put forth their suggestions.....preferential treatment much? The backlash from the forum users back then would make this fleet mark episode look like a day out at the funfair.
Comments
Either with large fleet kicking members, or small fleet not wanting to have more members in so the amount of requirements stay at low.
Now there a simple solution that have been put on the table : reward ALL events with a possibility to either choose the bound reward or the fleet mark. And make so it reward an acceptable amount of it and not some ridiculous bits.
Dude! You will have access to the same "shineys", it's just going to take you longer to get there. There is no favoritism towards large Fleets, it's just simple math. More people filling the bucket means the bucket gets filled faster.
I tell you, once these Starbases start hitting Tier 5, a lot of people are gonna find themselves without a bucket, because those Fleets won't need 500 members anymore.
And why is everyone so hot to burn through everything so fast? Every time anything new comes out, people burn through it as fast as they can. Burn through Starbase Advancement. Burn through Reputation Tracks. Once you've done all that, what are you left with? Grinding the same content, except now you have no purpose to it. Why rush through it all?
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60 fleet marks seems acceptable in that case, with the bonus that you can buy with your fleet credits you get 70 fleet marks for that limited time till you re-up your bonus.
And you don't think there won't be screaming and protesting and gnashing of teeth over how "unfair" that would be that they can't become a smaller Fleet simply because they want to. And those Fleets that have 100+ members yet only have a dozen active members, they should be penalized with having to always pay higher costs because they can't drop their maximum membership to what is actually active? Best just to leave it alone.
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Cause people want it now! :rolleyes:
I'm okay with things taking a long time, it's just when it takes a long time, and it's not fun.
Sound cannot travel in a vacuum. The submarine comparison does not hold. Yet the Devs continue to mistakenly believe otherwise.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
I made a similar proposal on page 152 of this thread about rewards and again in its own thread titled Reward Revamp: A Proposal to Cryptic Studios. (Sorry, I'm on my phone and can't manage a link at the moment.) Admittedly it's a bit of a read, but it deals with more than just Fleet Marks.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
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We generate the revenue. Don't make us mad.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
Demand of instant gratification is part of what's wrong here.:rolleyes: LOL
I agree that the fun needs to be put back into the game.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
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Who said anything about rushing through it?
Been here 3 years......rushing is not a concern.....what is a concern is that for my fleet is not simply taking a fair while to upgrade.....it is stagnant. Let's not mention my KDF Fleet..... lol @ getting enough people to to queue up for KDF Fleet Actions......
Again....rushing is not a problem.....to try and make out that is the problem here is just shortsighted. As an ex EVE player I KNOW what waiting for the cool stuff is all about....if you don't get that...start a new char in EVE and create a skill plan to fly a carrier let alone the skills to kit it out with mods.
Well, the guy I was responding to for one seemed to be in a bit of a rush. If rushing is not a concern for you, then good on ya, mate. But there are those in this game that burn through new content as fast as they can, and then complain about not having anything to do. I never once suggested though, that rushing was the big problem with STO.
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- play no more fm missions.
- dont donate to youre fleet for a while.
- dont run the foundry.
and after 3 weeks,there data must be changed into something they dont like,so they can give us oure stuff back.
if pw doesnt want to listen,then they have to feel it,in there wallet and there playersbase
I miss my Nyx....I know exactly what you mean there, made me smirk a little
But yes, patience smatience....we're talking about a much different issue here.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
The only mission i still play are the fleet dailys.
We are the Customers that provide the income/earnings to PWE/Cryptic for STO.
We, the Customers, are not cattle to be herded into a farming/grinding game system just because you decide that is the way it has to be.
You have it backwards!
A company exists to make profit and it makes profit by providing something it's Customers want to buy!
Your Customers are complaining very loudly that they don't want your current product "vision" and the path it is headed toward!
It's time someone in your company listened to what your Customers want!
Star Trek gamers are not Farmers!
PWE/Cryptic Stop the FARM, Bring back the FUN!
Zeus
Every change and every movement...Started with just one person!
"We herd sheep, we drive cattle, we lead people.
Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way!"
General George S. Patton
PWE/Cryptic Stop the FARM, Bring back the FUN!
Zeus
Anyway, I have left STO in December 2012 and I am not coming back. Too bad I got lifetime, but this time it's just not worth to return anymore. I've had a half-year-break before and when I returned for the first time, I've had fun for less than another half year. I used to have two mains (FED, KDF) and two alts on each side, each career in each faction possible. After the changes made in Season 7, I had to drop all alts and after some time I even dropped the KDF main. In December, I finally decided to even drop my last character which was the only one with a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship. I didn't even bother saving the EC and gear I had, I just pressed "Delete Character" and it was done with.
By now, it's not worth to have a single character anymore, because all you can basically do is to not have fun. Also, since the game went free-to-play, doing PUGs is a lot harder as there are so many AFKers around. Going free-to-play was the biggest mistake in my opinion, but it might have just saved the game back then as it was in such a bad state when Atari was at the wheel. Now with PWE at the wheel, it's not a lot better, but it's just that much better that it's able to survive in this F2P state. However, it's not guaranteed to survive another 3 years, even with F2P, if such actions and decisions are taken and executed.
However, with experience, I began to realise that if a thread is going to the 3-digit pages, at least it's noticed by not just Dan Stahl who's like in the middle of two fronts (PWE on one, customer base / his own team on the other), but also the exectives at PWE. I won't come back to STO, but I hope for those who are still trying to keep this place alive and at least a little bit kindergarten-free, that your fight here is doing some good.
Go Olivia! *hug for you* Go community! Go us! All for one and one for all, in the true sense of the Federation.
~ Eris The Vorta
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
The Changes Suck!!!
We Wont Take It Anymore!!
'merica!!!
So for future reference: give warning of major changes, make sure dev-made changes to the economy have some way to not wildly disrupt supply/demand, anticipate player response before it becomes a firestorm.
And Brandon: you have a tough job. I do appreciate your dedication to reading every single post in the thread.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
Ok, what happened.... a single Moebius ship came along, stunned me with a subnuke beam, took away my aux with a graviton beam and plunged a AttackPattern Beta into me (as I was stunned by the subnuke, tac team was useless) and shot me into pieces in seconds with his DHC. A 1vs1 situation with no chance for me to survive or escape.
GREAT BALANCING Cryptic.... You guys really made my day.
In the past I was dropping some trico mines behind my ship to cover my TRIBBLE, but now after the nerv they dont do any good dmg any more. The escorts laugh at them. Even Quantum mines do more dmg per volley now.
Thanks for buffing the escorts again !
And by the way, for every bug solved, 2 new ones pop up. Dont you have a Quality Control in your company? This game is really starting to TRIBBLE me off.... me fool who was stupid enough to invest cash into a lifetime.... Arghhhhhhh......
Can't they see this is hurting the consumer? This isn't the way to win hearts and open wallets guys! FIX IT. GIVE ME A REASON TO PAY...
even making my earned gold shoulders worthless some weeks ago wasnt this hard for me, I was OK with the dilitium influence you programmed into every little piece of the game, and above my lifettime account I sent you more than 1000,- Euro in the last 3 years...you made the foundry worthless again, and all other content (as nice as it is).. I just cant repeat it anymore after hundrets of times...
I am member of a small fleet and my goal was to get fleetmarks and progress the fleetbase and wait for some other fleetmembers to return to STO one day.. but now there is nothing left to do for me.
Sad..but now my dog is happy ..I'll go for a walk with him now..done with the grind) LLAP
I run a fleet with less then 150 (~50players) chars and we have a lot of active players, at least 20-30 per day with more then one char.
We never had any issue with fleetmarks, we waste fletmarks in stupid projects, just because we have so much.
Everyone in the fleet is earning the max. amount of daily dilithium! There is enough dilithium to earn. We don`t need more unrefined Dilithium, it is just fine.
But what we need is get this stupid 8000 refine limit raised. Most of my fleet mates have tons of unrefined dilithium, because they are earning more then they are able to refine!!!
Increase this to 12.000 per day instead of 8000, raising the embassy to tier 2 was a pain because of 1.000.000 dilithium.
And I am just afraid about how long it will take to finish T4 starbase...
I probably will never own my absolute favourite Fleet T5 Assault cruiser, because this is far above our abilities and everyone in our fleet is willing to spend as much as possible.
There is every day a run on our new projects who can fill in his resources first.. But T5 for medium fleets is a no chance at all!
Forgive my bad english, I had not enough sleep the last nights...
If there was to be a council formed?
I take it then you weren't around when Cryptic tried that one last time HAHAHAHA!!!
A player council that was created with no ELECTED representatives with certain 'Special' people *coughBorticuscough* among other unknown folks getting a conference call every week with the Devs so they could put forth their suggestions.....preferential treatment much? The backlash from the forum users back then would make this fleet mark episode look like a day out at the funfair.
Nooooooo thank you......
I feel this quote fits well in this case:
Yoda: "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."