As far as The Foundry goes. they need a better filter and rewards system.
If you want to do a Diplomatic mission, filter it in search, run it and you get Diplomacy and XP for running that mission
Same for dilithium, filter rewards for dilithium, run a mission and get dilithium and XP.
Fleet mission for FMs...
And so on..
The problem is setting the rewards high enough people will play them, while not low enough so they can find them elsewhere. But it needs to be a SET figure, not on a slider. With a minimum mission time. I thought 15 minutes wasn't so bad. 4 per hour if you were in grind mode.
The removal of Fleet Marks from the Foundry is not a stand-alone issue. This is irrevocably linked to every other unresolved QA issue, the complete transformation of this game into a constant grind, and any other change made against the playerbase. I for one will not let this go.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
I think Cryptic needs to consider which mistake is worse. Adding the FMs to the IOR in the first place, allowing the IOR to be repeatable, or removing the IOR and rewards all together.
It seems like each of those occurrences played a part in creating this issue. You cannot throw a reward like that at us without slapping an expiration date on it and not expect backlash.
This could have been easily avoided had they already had in place a way to redistribute those marks in other areas. It feels like this whole patch was just all sorts of wrong. So many bugs and so much reward removed that there have been many times the last few days where I wonder why I am even on the game. I am doing what I thought I would do though. I am finding myself just sitting in ESD and talking to people. I feel no reason to really "play" the game anymore. This is more like a really pretty chat room now.
No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
And no, Terilynn is not a bad writer. You can agree or disagree with her creative choices, but I think she is quite skilled.
You're entitled to your opinion. I find it to be overblown, meandering and simile-laden.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Here is a repost with additional summaries for the devs:
I am thinking we need a summary post of the top 10 community suggestions to give to cryptic. This thread is very long and we don't want a potential good idea glossed over because the devs do not read all 150 pages.
Lets stay focused offering constructive ways to fix the problem.
From what I have seen reading the thread I think the anger is not really about the marks. It's more about:
1). Gated/forced content , players wanting more options in the content to get rewards. No one likes having to do same content over and over.
2) Small fleets feeling the squeeze as more and more grinds added to game. Tier 5 is exceedingly feeling out of reach unless you are in a mega fleet.
3) General lack of content.
Some of the suggestions I have seen:
1) let players earn fleet marks in any mission they group with other fleet mates. 1-5x rewards scalable for all game content.
2) cross faction fleet mates being able to group since kdf queues are dead. I.E my kdf and fed fleets can be sister fleets so my team can still play together in fleet events.
3) only have one type of marks' to reduce currencies and allow players to do more varied content. All content gives marks.
4) increase fleet mark rewards in all missions significantly. Make missions with low play numbers have increased rewards.
5) various ideas on scalable fleet requirements such as size of fleet, number of accounts which have been in the fleet at any time, number of contributing members etc.
6) Fleet mark exchange from one type to another
7) Exchange for all types of inputs. Like bio neutrals, marks etc
8) Return all FM to IOR. Simple reinstate reward.
9) Let people choose the reward at end of all missions, dil, gear, type of mark.
10) Give marks in regular content, omega marks in assimilated, romulan marks in romulan episodes etc.
If anyone else can help summarize people's ideas I can add to this list and repost.
At the heart of the matter is the lack of fresh playable content.
Back in the great content drought, we were starved for anything new while Cryptic got it's butt moving again.
Now we have two problems: A flood of new content... that is half-TRIBBLE if even that.
The first handful of Feature Episodes had the main missions an a handful of support missions in the surrounding sector. 2800 was grind-fest designed to bring players back multiple times to get "all the gear." No secondary support missions. Well that's fine but lets look at the QUALITY of the episode. The FMV was horrific. Still is despite tweaking. And the voice-acting is so bad I turn the sound off when I re-run the episode. Lorris is the worst VO I've ever had to suffer through. This is on top of the generally lackluster gameplay throughout 2800. Running through Bajor clicking on interacts. Flying to the Delta Quad to click on interacts. The big WOW moment -- spacewalking on DS9... doesn't hold up compared to the TOS scenes in Specters or the Vault flythrough in the Romulan series... In short it felt rushed and half-assed.
Then we have the "major" grind hubs: Defera, Nukara and New Rom. These are fine and dandy but once we've used them up there is no point in going back. It actually would NOT take very long nor cost very much to release new missions or instances on these maps. The assets are already there... whip up new scripting and dialog.
Next we have the Fleet Mark Maps: We have two ground maps... both of which I can solo in the event of an AFK-team. It's happened more than once. Problem is there are only TWO of them that reward fleet marks. THIS is why we created short-run missions in the foundry: The devs want us to grind grind grind but do NOT give us the variety of missions we desire. The space missions range from absurdly easy to GPU-meltingly difficult -- and I have no desire to sit there and PUG. Another bad team just makes the grind a chore instead of fun. Again, we created missions Foundry-side that were fun to play and we had a variety of them to play.
The same thing has happened with the New Rom missions. I can only heard baby-squid so many times... stomping on poodles gets tedious... and the I can only blow up the same number of trash-mob ships on patrol so many times! The non-combat missions are a step in the right direction... but we need MORE. I've done everything in the new sector over a hundred times by now and I am still not done with my New Rom reputation.
Azure Nebula is nice... Mine Trap is a chore... and the patrols get boring after awhile. And I can only run the same missions on New Rom so many times before I get tired. Fix the same machines in Landing? Click the same scanners? Gather the same samples? Really? Where is the variety?
The same could be said for the STFs. These are the only missions that pay Omega Marks... thanks to the original loot drop system I played over 300 times across multiple toons. I'm doing it AGAIN a second time to unlock gear... that I have to overgrind again to earn. WHERE IS THE VARIETY.
Issuing me a new ship is nice. But there is nothing to do with the ship. Running Azure in my Ambassador is little different than running it in my escort or carrier.
***
The point is, Cryptic... we are willing to grind for marks. But you are FAILING TO PROVIDE A VARIETY OF ENVIRONMENTS AND MISSIONS TO DO SO. The Foundry should issue Mark rewards, period. This encourages people to grind.
You mention internal metrics. Use those metrics to monitor the Foundry. Police the content. Remove the offending missions but DO NOT punish us by removing the rewards.
What I would like to see is a mechanism similar to Spotlighting. Once a mission is Spotlighted, Viewer-Choiced or whatever we call it, it issues one of the three Marks as a reward. This encourages people to make triple-A grade foundry mission in hope of getting spotlighted, and eliminated clickies.
In summary, bring back the FM rewards, and do so in a way that doesn't result in clickies.
I am going to post my comments to this Massively story here as well so Cryptic can answer to it:
This is my first time readying your articles... nicely said. I have been with STO since March 2010 and have 2 lifetime subscribers in my household, both in a large (500 max) and small fleet (33), and we are disgusted. You've got the answer right in your article. Cryptic does have other options besides reward nerfing. The bigger problem that is like a cancer on the whole game since F2P has been AFK players. They want us to play team play missions but small fleets usually PuG more than large fleets so its a double whammy. If you get stuck with an AFK player on an STF or a fleet action it screws you for 30 minutes to hour on the rewards. If AFK was addressed the foundry issue wouldn't exist either. Cryptic needs to institute some 30 sec timer to make sure you're interacting. If you need to potty during your 15 - 20 minute mission, too bad so sad, try again in an hour.
Cryptic's cowboy style lack of listening and implementing of these changes has been the proverbial straw for most to unleash their rage. I agree with you on what an exploit is but this game has that exploit everywhere not just in the foundry. To take away awards from the majority for legitimate play without replacing it with something similar as a reward is unacceptable. This is the third such major outcry from the player base in the last few months from changes that have been implemented without any concern or seeking feedback. I for one think it's time for Dan Stahl to resign and let someone new take the lead who is going vet changes like this more thoroughly before implementing them. At the very least they need to put the reward back until they have an alternative in place. I don't care if people get a few months of extra fleet marks until then. At this point, my household and fleeties will be off to explore other new worlds to spend our money unless something changes.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
every friday i spend 80$ and every monday i spend another 40$ on this game. since thursdays patch i havent spent 0$. So that 120$ Cryptic has lost out on. If its going to be till May untill you give us our 50 FM's back, that will be 1,440$ that Cryptic has lost out because of some foundry authors. You guys crossed the line with this BS. Im happy to give you my money as long as im happy with the game. You killed the only GOOD source of FM's that i use to contribute to the fleet. Turnabout is fair play i think. No FM's for me, no $ for you.
Interesting reading the Tribble thread, only read the first few pages but it's amazing how easy it is to miss problems or possible problems because of never really bothering with that content much.
Someone pointed out that the same people that started all this with their complaining will also be affected because people will actually use their text missions so that they can go AFK. Like I said that was something I wouldn't have thought of because I don't usually bother with that content. It did make me wonder if that's why the foundry got pulled altogether though, it did get pulled didn't it? Wouldn't know for sure with not being in there since the patch on Thursday and generally being tired at the moment.
every friday i spend 80$ and every monday i spend another 40$ on this game. since thursdays patch i havent spent 0$. So that 120$ Cryptic has lost out on. If its going to be till May untill you give us our 50 FM's back, that will be 1,440$ that Cryptic has lost out because of some foundry authors. You guys crossed the line with this BS. Im happy to give you my money as long as im happy with the game. You killed the only GOOD source of FM's that i use to contribute to the fleet. Turnabout is fair play i think. No FM's for me, no $ for you.
Considering we're not getting much from them, that is about the most we can do. I as well am no longer spending money with them.
No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
Oh, just a heads up guys... they "Stealth Nerfed" "Fleet Defense Fleet Action". We just finished playing it with all the objectives completely and we all got 40 Fleet Marks over the usual 70-80. I am so annoyed about this...
Just another way for Cryptic to try and con the player base. :mad:
A bunch of stuff I am inclined to agree with, as is just and fair and also out of fear of Marie's righteous boot heel
Pretty much this. Arbitrarily funneling our play time into boring, repetitive tedium makes the game feel stale real quick. Let people advance their fleets by playing the way that they enjoy playing. You don't even need to add much more content, just let more of the existing content provide viable ways of advancing the fleet system.
The point is, Cryptic... we are willing to grind for marks. But you are FAILING TO PROVIDE A VARIETY OF ENVIRONMENTS AND MISSIONS TO DO SO.
I have to disagree. There are some on this forum that would say 'Yes, I am willing to grind.' Unfortunately the majority of players are tired of the grind.
grind [grahynd] Show IPA
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: tedious job
Synonyms: chore, drudgery, groove, grubwork, hard work, labor, moil, pace, rote, routine, rut, sweat, task, toil, travail, treadmill
Drudgery is what people are feeling. This game being more like a second job is the majority concern. A certain amount of grind may be a part of MMOs but how they go about it, whether making it blatantly tedious and laborious or making it less apparent is what differentiates a good game from the sea of MMOs.
I have to disagree. There are some on this forum that would say 'Yes, I am willing to grind.' Unfortunately the majority of players are tired of the grind.
grind [grahynd] Show IPA
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: tedious job
Synonyms: chore, drudgery, groove, grubwork, hard work, labor, moil, pace, rote, routine, rut, sweat, task, toil, travail, treadmill
Drudgery is what people are feeling. This game being more like a second job is the majority concern. A certain amount of grind may be a part of MMOs but how they go about it, whether making it blatantly tedious and laborious or making it less apparent is what differentiates a good game from the sea of MMOs.
I actually agree, I think that its got to the point that I actually dread having to manage my Fleet now..
Oh, just a heads up guys... they "Stealth Nerfed" "Fleet Defense Fleet Action". We just finished playing it with all the objectives completely and we all got 40 Fleet Marks over the usual 70-80. I am so annoyed about this...
Just another way for Cryptic to try and con the player base. :mad:
I am not surprised in the least on this.
If they can nerf The Foundry, why not the other crappy sources of FMs as well. They need to slow starbase construction to a crawl. The mega-fleets are hitting their goals at a much faster pace than Cryptic anticipated. Lets face it, if it wasn't time gated, there would be Tier 5 fleets already.
I don't think their ready for Tier 5 starbases, period. Maybe they have glitches to work out or something. But I think their afraid of fleets hitting Tier 5 before their ready. That's what this nerf was about in the first place. Not an attack on rep system, but on the fleet project system.
Oh, just a heads up guys... they "Stealth Nerfed" "Fleet Defense Fleet Action". We just finished playing it with all the objectives completely and we all got 40 Fleet Marks over the usual 70-80. I am so annoyed about this...
Just another way for Cryptic to try and con the player base. :mad:
They stealth nerf a lot of things. This is what I mean by they are not completely honest with us in patch notes as some other MMO companies are.
It might just be me and I may be wrong, but I remember when you could turn in 5 white DOFFs for a green and it didn't cost anything. Then after a patch it went up to 500 dilithium. We were all annoyed by that. Even though I do not use that assignment, I went and looked again and now it costs 600 dilithium. I do not recall a patch note stating that there was to be another increase.
Seriously, it makes you think. How many other changes have been made to make this game harder that they haven't cared to mention?
No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
Interesting reading the Tribble thread, only read the first few pages but it's amazing how easy it is to miss problems or possible problems because of never really bothering with that content much.
Someone pointed out that the same people that started all this with their complaining will also be affected because people will actually use their text missions so that they can go AFK. Like I said that was something I wouldn't have thought of because I don't usually bother with that content. It did make me wonder if that's why the foundry got pulled altogether though, it did get pulled didn't it? Wouldn't know for sure with not being in there since the patch on Thursday and generally being tired at the moment.
It was down for a supposed server crash for about 6 or 7 hours. You can still AFK in some of these ship battle missions and ground BOFF missions... they didn't stop that, all they did was nerf the rewards.. you get about 600 dil for 20 minutes of play. They took away 300 dil and 50 fm but that's it.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I don't think their ready for Tier 5 starbases, period. Maybe they have glitches to work out or something. But I think their afraid of fleets hitting Tier 5 before their ready. That's what this nerf was about in the first place. Not an attack on rep system, but on the fleet project system.
Considering how badly bugged the T3-T5 stuff was and is in the Omega/Rommie rep system, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that they pulled another "we'll release a completely unfinished system and try to fix it before people level up high enough to notice that we didn't actually release what we say we did".
Seriously, it makes you think. How many other changes have been made to make this game harder that they haven't cared to mention?
one thing i noticed is that any inspect freighter/confiscate contraband i do with purple doffs and 1-2 crit traits each fail 8 times out of 10 and 5 times out of 10 its a disaster with injuries.
and when it does crit (1 time out of 10 is my guess) all i get is 1 contraband and a bunch of other junk.
and we all remember when they bumped up the amount of contraband and the completion time for the turn in contraband assignment . . .
They stealth nerf a lot of things. This is what I mean by they are not completely honest with us in patch notes as some other MMO companies are.
It might just be me and I may be wrong, but I remember when you could turn in 5 white DOFFs for a green and it didn't cost anything. Then after a patch it went up to 500 dilithium. We were all annoyed by that. Even though I do not use that assignment, I went and looked again and now it costs 600 dilithium. I do not recall a patch note stating that there was to be another increase.
Seriously, it makes you think. How many other changes have been made to make this game harder that they haven't cared to mention?
I haven't used the personnel officer since they drove the price up. You can get the officers with fleet credits far easier just buying career specific ones. I used to spend a lot of dilithium on officers when it was like 10 dilithium. it used to be 5 white+10dil to get green, 5 green+50 dil to get blue, and 5 blue+500 dil to get pink. I quit that as soon as they raised the price outrageously. It's like a big shell game... watch the hand over here and see it give you something you like while missing the stealthy slap in the face with the other hand stealing something away.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Considering how badly bugged the T3-T5 stuff was and is in the Omega/Rommie rep system, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that they pulled another "we'll release a completely unfinished system and try to fix it before people level up high enough to notice that we didn't actually release what we say we did".
That could very well be.
Dev: 'But Dan, its not ready yet!'
D.Stahl: 'Don't worry, we have over a year or so to fix it before people even begin to come close to Tier 5. They'll never know..'
Almost a year later...
Dev: 'ZOMG!! A fleets going to be Tier 5 in a week!'
D.Stahl: 'Nerf EVERYTHING that has to do with Fleet Marks! That'll slow them down..'
Dev: "But, what about the backlash from players?'
D.Stahl: 'Don't worry, we got a 3 day weekend. It'll blow over...'
"The problem is more complicated than most players comprehend."
This 174 pages are the proof that Therilynn Shull is right.
This is an interesting article.
Personally I have thought this for a long time - I don't think that you can just write code that's going to adequately determine what missions are good and what missions are not.
I think what this may need is a couple of employees by Cryptic specifically to review Foundry missions.
Sadly this will likely end with them being flamed to death, too. However, that's the best solution that I think is viable (and maybe even realistic). They could reclassify the missions as necessary.
I wish I knew how many missions in the Foundry there actually were, that might give a better idea of how practical this sort of thing might actually be, although I suspect "a whole lot" is the most specific we're going to be getting.
Note I do not say that such a review system is necessarily a GOOD solution... just one of the less bad ones.
The Foundry and it's associated reward system is just a cursory issue. The Foundry is the focus right now because it was our only venue to relieve the tedium that is the grindfest of the rest of the game.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
They stealth nerf a lot of things. This is what I mean by they are not completely honest with us in patch notes as some other MMO companies are.
It might just be me and I may be wrong, but I remember when you could turn in 5 white DOFFs for a green and it didn't cost anything. Then after a patch it went up to 500 dilithium. We were all annoyed by that. Even though I do not use that assignment, I went and looked again and now it costs 600 dilithium. I do not recall a patch note stating that there was to be another increase.
Seriously, it makes you think. How many other changes have been made to make this game harder that they haven't cared to mention?
I said it before but I'll say it again... I think it's time to take the bigger issues to the people who make the financial and hiring decisions at PWE and Cryptic Studios. I'm sure by now since some articles are being written on other gaming websites outside the STO forums that the big wigs will get involved anyways at this point.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Comments
If you want to do a Diplomatic mission, filter it in search, run it and you get Diplomacy and XP for running that mission
Same for dilithium, filter rewards for dilithium, run a mission and get dilithium and XP.
Fleet mission for FMs...
And so on..
The problem is setting the rewards high enough people will play them, while not low enough so they can find them elsewhere. But it needs to be a SET figure, not on a slider. With a minimum mission time. I thought 15 minutes wasn't so bad. 4 per hour if you were in grind mode.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
It seems like each of those occurrences played a part in creating this issue. You cannot throw a reward like that at us without slapping an expiration date on it and not expect backlash.
This could have been easily avoided had they already had in place a way to redistribute those marks in other areas. It feels like this whole patch was just all sorts of wrong. So many bugs and so much reward removed that there have been many times the last few days where I wonder why I am even on the game. I am doing what I thought I would do though. I am finding myself just sitting in ESD and talking to people. I feel no reason to really "play" the game anymore. This is more like a really pretty chat room now.
too bl**dy right ill give thumbs up from the brits :P
Maybe thats why I'm bald now..:eek:
You're entitled to your opinion. I find it to be overblown, meandering and simile-laden.
Her threads picking up speed now. Check out some of the posts..XD
Let our voices be HEARD!
Take it for what is was...an opinion piece.
Regardless, with her article, she is getting more people talking about it which is keeping the fight going.
I am thinking we need a summary post of the top 10 community suggestions to give to cryptic. This thread is very long and we don't want a potential good idea glossed over because the devs do not read all 150 pages.
Lets stay focused offering constructive ways to fix the problem.
From what I have seen reading the thread I think the anger is not really about the marks. It's more about:
1). Gated/forced content , players wanting more options in the content to get rewards. No one likes having to do same content over and over.
2) Small fleets feeling the squeeze as more and more grinds added to game. Tier 5 is exceedingly feeling out of reach unless you are in a mega fleet.
3) General lack of content.
Some of the suggestions I have seen:
1) let players earn fleet marks in any mission they group with other fleet mates. 1-5x rewards scalable for all game content.
2) cross faction fleet mates being able to group since kdf queues are dead. I.E my kdf and fed fleets can be sister fleets so my team can still play together in fleet events.
3) only have one type of marks' to reduce currencies and allow players to do more varied content. All content gives marks.
4) increase fleet mark rewards in all missions significantly. Make missions with low play numbers have increased rewards.
5) various ideas on scalable fleet requirements such as size of fleet, number of accounts which have been in the fleet at any time, number of contributing members etc.
6) Fleet mark exchange from one type to another
7) Exchange for all types of inputs. Like bio neutrals, marks etc
8) Return all FM to IOR. Simple reinstate reward.
9) Let people choose the reward at end of all missions, dil, gear, type of mark.
10) Give marks in regular content, omega marks in assimilated, romulan marks in romulan episodes etc.
If anyone else can help summarize people's ideas I can add to this list and repost.
FED TIER 5 KDF TIER 4 - MAX HOLDINGS
All welcome, pm @animusrevertendi
Join us on Teamspeak! Visit our Website!
It's hilarious really, that's got to be the most active STO thread over there in quite a long time.
Back in the great content drought, we were starved for anything new while Cryptic got it's butt moving again.
Now we have two problems: A flood of new content... that is half-TRIBBLE if even that.
The first handful of Feature Episodes had the main missions an a handful of support missions in the surrounding sector. 2800 was grind-fest designed to bring players back multiple times to get "all the gear." No secondary support missions. Well that's fine but lets look at the QUALITY of the episode. The FMV was horrific. Still is despite tweaking. And the voice-acting is so bad I turn the sound off when I re-run the episode. Lorris is the worst VO I've ever had to suffer through. This is on top of the generally lackluster gameplay throughout 2800. Running through Bajor clicking on interacts. Flying to the Delta Quad to click on interacts. The big WOW moment -- spacewalking on DS9... doesn't hold up compared to the TOS scenes in Specters or the Vault flythrough in the Romulan series... In short it felt rushed and half-assed.
Then we have the "major" grind hubs: Defera, Nukara and New Rom. These are fine and dandy but once we've used them up there is no point in going back. It actually would NOT take very long nor cost very much to release new missions or instances on these maps. The assets are already there... whip up new scripting and dialog.
Next we have the Fleet Mark Maps: We have two ground maps... both of which I can solo in the event of an AFK-team. It's happened more than once.
The same thing has happened with the New Rom missions. I can only heard baby-squid so many times... stomping on poodles gets tedious... and the I can only blow up the same number of trash-mob ships on patrol so many times! The non-combat missions are a step in the right direction... but we need MORE. I've done everything in the new sector over a hundred times by now and I am still not done with my New Rom reputation.
Azure Nebula is nice... Mine Trap is a chore... and the patrols get boring after awhile. And I can only run the same missions on New Rom so many times before I get tired. Fix the same machines in Landing? Click the same scanners? Gather the same samples? Really? Where is the variety?
The same could be said for the STFs. These are the only missions that pay Omega Marks... thanks to the original loot drop system I played over 300 times across multiple toons. I'm doing it AGAIN a second time to unlock gear... that I have to overgrind again to earn. WHERE IS THE VARIETY.
Issuing me a new ship is nice. But there is nothing to do with the ship. Running Azure in my Ambassador is little different than running it in my escort or carrier.
***
The point is, Cryptic... we are willing to grind for marks. But you are FAILING TO PROVIDE A VARIETY OF ENVIRONMENTS AND MISSIONS TO DO SO. The Foundry should issue Mark rewards, period. This encourages people to grind.
You mention internal metrics. Use those metrics to monitor the Foundry. Police the content. Remove the offending missions but DO NOT punish us by removing the rewards.
What I would like to see is a mechanism similar to Spotlighting. Once a mission is Spotlighted, Viewer-Choiced or whatever we call it, it issues one of the three Marks as a reward. This encourages people to make triple-A grade foundry mission in hope of getting spotlighted, and eliminated clickies.
In summary, bring back the FM rewards, and do so in a way that doesn't result in clickies.
I am going to post my comments to this Massively story here as well so Cryptic can answer to it:
This is my first time readying your articles... nicely said. I have been with STO since March 2010 and have 2 lifetime subscribers in my household, both in a large (500 max) and small fleet (33), and we are disgusted. You've got the answer right in your article. Cryptic does have other options besides reward nerfing. The bigger problem that is like a cancer on the whole game since F2P has been AFK players. They want us to play team play missions but small fleets usually PuG more than large fleets so its a double whammy. If you get stuck with an AFK player on an STF or a fleet action it screws you for 30 minutes to hour on the rewards. If AFK was addressed the foundry issue wouldn't exist either. Cryptic needs to institute some 30 sec timer to make sure you're interacting. If you need to potty during your 15 - 20 minute mission, too bad so sad, try again in an hour.
Cryptic's cowboy style lack of listening and implementing of these changes has been the proverbial straw for most to unleash their rage. I agree with you on what an exploit is but this game has that exploit everywhere not just in the foundry. To take away awards from the majority for legitimate play without replacing it with something similar as a reward is unacceptable. This is the third such major outcry from the player base in the last few months from changes that have been implemented without any concern or seeking feedback. I for one think it's time for Dan Stahl to resign and let someone new take the lead who is going vet changes like this more thoroughly before implementing them. At the very least they need to put the reward back until they have an alternative in place. I don't care if people get a few months of extra fleet marks until then. At this point, my household and fleeties will be off to explore other new worlds to spend our money unless something changes.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Someone pointed out that the same people that started all this with their complaining will also be affected because people will actually use their text missions so that they can go AFK. Like I said that was something I wouldn't have thought of because I don't usually bother with that content. It did make me wonder if that's why the foundry got pulled altogether though, it did get pulled didn't it? Wouldn't know for sure with not being in there since the patch on Thursday and generally being tired at the moment.
Considering we're not getting much from them, that is about the most we can do. I as well am no longer spending money with them.
Just another way for Cryptic to try and con the player base. :mad:
Pretty much this. Arbitrarily funneling our play time into boring, repetitive tedium makes the game feel stale real quick. Let people advance their fleets by playing the way that they enjoy playing. You don't even need to add much more content, just let more of the existing content provide viable ways of advancing the fleet system.
I have to disagree. There are some on this forum that would say 'Yes, I am willing to grind.' Unfortunately the majority of players are tired of the grind.
grind [grahynd] Show IPA
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: tedious job
Synonyms: chore, drudgery, groove, grubwork, hard work, labor, moil, pace, rote, routine, rut, sweat, task, toil, travail, treadmill
Drudgery is what people are feeling. This game being more like a second job is the majority concern. A certain amount of grind may be a part of MMOs but how they go about it, whether making it blatantly tedious and laborious or making it less apparent is what differentiates a good game from the sea of MMOs.
I actually agree, I think that its got to the point that I actually dread having to manage my Fleet now..
I am not surprised in the least on this.
If they can nerf The Foundry, why not the other crappy sources of FMs as well. They need to slow starbase construction to a crawl. The mega-fleets are hitting their goals at a much faster pace than Cryptic anticipated. Lets face it, if it wasn't time gated, there would be Tier 5 fleets already.
I don't think their ready for Tier 5 starbases, period. Maybe they have glitches to work out or something. But I think their afraid of fleets hitting Tier 5 before their ready. That's what this nerf was about in the first place. Not an attack on rep system, but on the fleet project system.
They stealth nerf a lot of things. This is what I mean by they are not completely honest with us in patch notes as some other MMO companies are.
It might just be me and I may be wrong, but I remember when you could turn in 5 white DOFFs for a green and it didn't cost anything. Then after a patch it went up to 500 dilithium. We were all annoyed by that. Even though I do not use that assignment, I went and looked again and now it costs 600 dilithium. I do not recall a patch note stating that there was to be another increase.
Seriously, it makes you think. How many other changes have been made to make this game harder that they haven't cared to mention?
It was down for a supposed server crash for about 6 or 7 hours. You can still AFK in some of these ship battle missions and ground BOFF missions... they didn't stop that, all they did was nerf the rewards.. you get about 600 dil for 20 minutes of play. They took away 300 dil and 50 fm but that's it.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Considering how badly bugged the T3-T5 stuff was and is in the Omega/Rommie rep system, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that they pulled another "we'll release a completely unfinished system and try to fix it before people level up high enough to notice that we didn't actually release what we say we did".
and when it does crit (1 time out of 10 is my guess) all i get is 1 contraband and a bunch of other junk.
and we all remember when they bumped up the amount of contraband and the completion time for the turn in contraband assignment . . .
I haven't used the personnel officer since they drove the price up. You can get the officers with fleet credits far easier just buying career specific ones. I used to spend a lot of dilithium on officers when it was like 10 dilithium. it used to be 5 white+10dil to get green, 5 green+50 dil to get blue, and 5 blue+500 dil to get pink. I quit that as soon as they raised the price outrageously. It's like a big shell game... watch the hand over here and see it give you something you like while missing the stealthy slap in the face with the other hand stealing something away.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
That could very well be.
Dev: 'But Dan, its not ready yet!'
D.Stahl: 'Don't worry, we have over a year or so to fix it before people even begin to come close to Tier 5. They'll never know..'
Almost a year later...
Dev: 'ZOMG!! A fleets going to be Tier 5 in a week!'
D.Stahl: 'Nerf EVERYTHING that has to do with Fleet Marks! That'll slow them down..'
Dev: "But, what about the backlash from players?'
D.Stahl: 'Don't worry, we got a 3 day weekend. It'll blow over...'
XD
This is an interesting article.
Personally I have thought this for a long time - I don't think that you can just write code that's going to adequately determine what missions are good and what missions are not.
I think what this may need is a couple of employees by Cryptic specifically to review Foundry missions.
Sadly this will likely end with them being flamed to death, too. However, that's the best solution that I think is viable (and maybe even realistic). They could reclassify the missions as necessary.
I wish I knew how many missions in the Foundry there actually were, that might give a better idea of how practical this sort of thing might actually be, although I suspect "a whole lot" is the most specific we're going to be getting.
Note I do not say that such a review system is necessarily a GOOD solution... just one of the less bad ones.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
The cost for upgrading (duty officer reassignment) was a terrible change, however it has not had a more recent price increase as you stated (on Holodeck, at least). It's still 500/2500/5000 to get a green/blue/purple from 5 of a lower rarity.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
Lifetime Sub since June 2010