I find it very amusing that folks seem to think any kind of player council would be anything more than a showpiece to be used to distract the masses, while Cryptic keeps on ignoring whatever it wants to ignore.
So what would you suggest as an alternative?
I think it's important that Cryptic accepts that we don't expect something for nothing and that we do care about them being profitable (and in some cases want to give them our money but can't in good conscience because of the way they choose to treat their customers).
There's plenty of players that cheerlead Cryptic because they're putting time into this game and getting everything without having to pay real money - but those lockbox ships on the Exchange, those Master Keys were paid for with real cash and if players stop buying those things then at some point even the F2P'ers will be pissed off when a billion ECs won't buy them anything they want.
But by the point they realise this, STO will already be deep into its death-spiral and it'll be too late - far too late to reverse that.
I want to see long-standing bugs getting fixed, I want to see major changes to the gameplay and economy of STO discussed and tested thoroughly on Tribble then adjusted according to player feedback before they go live.
And I want to see that Cryptic is a company that respects its customers - only then will I consider reinvesting my time and money in this game, because right now it's clear - they don't deserve either.
I find it very amusing that folks seem to think any kind of player council would be anything more than a showpiece to be used to distract the masses, while Cryptic keeps on ignoring whatever it wants to ignore.
Well said because every player should be able to have his say, and it should be viewed the same has everyone else say. The problem is they dont listen and learn from what they have done in the past that was wrong. Most companies that do great always say the customer is always right.
Besides a radical corporate culture shift at Cryptic and PWE? Any kind of communications setup, be it a player council, dedicated staff intermediary, weekly seances or whatever, is predicated on both parties entering into it in good faith. Right now, that's just not happening.
Being a member of a small fleet (less than 25 members) and being that most of my fleet are now inactive because they hate what the game has become, means I'm the only one playing. I played every day for the last seven months straight and now I'm bored to hell (have played a lot more obviously, but the last seven months has been a continuous stretch with no other gaming). Repeating the same small amount of missions ad nauseam to attain the smallest token amount of fleet marks is beyond ridiculously dull.
That said, I don't want to leave my fleet, or merge with another fleet. We created our fleet as part of our gaming community, which I set up more than 7 years ago now. We have an active community, just not all of them can be bothered with STO any more. I don't want to be part of another fleet, the fleet I am in means something to me, the people who are a part of it (when they are active at least) are my favourite people to play with, they are my friends and family. So because I don't want to be a nameless face among five hundred, I can't reap the rewards of the starbase upgrades.
Not cool.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Regarding the OP... I'm going to take that as a statement that I, as a someone who is part of a small fleet, is not someone you want playing your game. Fair enough I guess.
Though I'd prefer being told that directly and up front on the main page of the site and having that statement backed up by the game allowing fleets to only be formed with 50+ signatures. Then I wouldn't have wasted my time downloading the game in the first place.
About the member's council I mentioned in Page 168 and the reply to that: I have been around from January 2010 to December 2012 and I know of STOked and the weekly conference calls with the devs, but that's not what I meant. I mean a council that has a section on the forums where only devs and council members could see, and then they could exchange opinions from community and polls there, etc.
But anyway, I only and mainly posted in this thread to support Olivia. Go Olivia!
"Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
I've got an idea, how scaling the prices for projects could be done without making it an exploit:
1. Let the fleet leaders freely set a maximum number of players their fleet can hold.
Scale the prices with this number.
2. Create a new project that can increase this number by - say 5 - for - say 50000 dil and 2500 fleet marks - and a completition time of - say 5 days.
This way a small fleet could set itself to like 25 players and again see progress.
When time comes they could increase their number of players in a slow way and prices rise accordingly. It would prevent big fleets to drop their number of players instantly because it would take a long time to restore to the old number of players after the completition of their goals.
The way it is now my fleet will stop developing after completition of our T3 shipyard.
How about using Tribble for what it is meant for instead of electing councils, subcommitees, etc? If instead of posting patches 1 or 2 day's in advance they would run them for...say 2 weeks, the most annoying bugs will be found by the players and feedback on any changes can be considered before going to Holodeck. The system is already in place, all it would require is for the dev's to make use of them in an effective way.
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
I've got an idea, how scaling the prices for projects could be done without making it an exploit:
1. Let the fleet leaders freely set a maximum number of players their fleet can hold.
Scale the prices with this number.
2. Create a new project that can increase this number by - say 5 - for - say 50000 dil and 2500 fleet marks - and a completition time of - say 5 days.
This way a small fleet could set itself to like 25 players and again see progress.
When time comes they could increase their number of players in a slow way and prices rise accordingly. It would prevent big fleets to drop their number of players instantly because it would take a long time to restore to the old number of players after the completition of their goals.
The way it is now my fleet will stop developing after completition of our T3 shipyard.
Nice Idea,but I am willing to bet that the larger fleets would have no problem cutting away the players who don't contribute/play, or contribute little and not bother to reinstate them. We would still be in the same boat.
I would like to think that these types of discussions should maybe be reserved for step two. Step one would imho be an acknowledgement from cryptic/pwe that they messed up and some sort of olive branch to their customers. Then we can begin the discussions on how to fix said problems. Tbh I would like at the very least to see some kind of replacement for the lost FMs first,but again,thats just me.
Keep up the fight
@dastahl
With the last patch you guys have done the most idiotic work ever.
Not only that you have copied the bugs from the test server 1:1 to the holodeck which seriously disturbs any gameplay... no you also have removed the fleet marks from the foundry without any replacement. And now you are telling us that we have to wait till MAY????
That are 3 months that all our Fleets can not make any progress!
I just have to say it again.... 3 months no progress... 3 months of demotivated fleet members... 3 months without any replacements for the losses.
No, even worse... that are 3 months that are practically lost for the fleets.
Now how difficult would have it been to raise the rewards (Fleet Marks) elsewhere as compensation? (even if its just temporarily)
Thats like changing the number 25 to 50... thats a matter of seconds and you easily could apply it with the next patch.
You can not tell us it takes 3 months to change the rewards of the (in my eyes totally boring) fleet actions to an acceptable level.
Seriously... you do interviews with certain magazines or websites and claim there that you like the feedback and cooperation with the players and tell us such a TRIBBLE now.
-> more than 170 pages of complaints about your changes (not even counting all the threads here on the forum). Shouldnt that make you think a bit?
In addition to restoring the FM & dilithium amounts to foundry that this "patch"/"improvement" removed/reduced; how about we also restore the proper dilithium costs for DOff Reassignment? 500 for Common Duty Officer Reassignment is insane and since that change I haven't used it at all.
Stop destroying this game with poor decisions based on metrics, please.
I am not a metric, I am a free sentient being!
There are Four Lights... say no to ARCFleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
Oh an one more thing: Your statistics are wrong
Do they take into consideration that players can have more chars but actually only play with one? Do they take into consideration the players that are not online everyday to make dilithium? Do they take into consideration that the server has many inactive chars which actually should not be used in your statistics? Do you even consider that new players are not even able to make the full amount of dilithium?
You are for sure calculating with the total amount of chars and the total amount of dilithium per day and that is WRONG. It is a calculation that never can work.
Lets put this straight... I have 6 chars... I only use one of them at a time for the fact that I only have 2 arms and can not split myself. So what does your statistics say about that?
8000dil/6=1333?
Face it, your statistics do not reflect the reality on the game. Period!
Good thing we do the exact opposite with DCUO. Most people want to feel powerful in our research.
Are you claiming to be a SOE/WB Interactive developer?
The "we" in that first sentence could be the "sports team" or "player" version of "we" but that second sentence makes it sound like we now have Sony developers balking at Cryptic. (Or Warner Bros. employees. But WB is to entertainment what Sony is to game publishing.) (And DCUO is a really fun game that seems to have a few good ideas.)
My fleet is looking to do the same as a lot of others. We are stopping at tier III on the starbase and Tier II on the embassy. Everyone is tired grinding the same TRIBBLE over and over. Some of our fleet members have left and formed a guild to play swtor and some are leaving and going EVE where they say they get something for their grind. Everyone feels like there is nothing to do in this game now until the next update and even then I'm not sure who will come back if it's not something spectacular that's not another grind recreation.
*sight*...give us just an easy fleetmark source.
ok, you take away again the dilithium, but the fleetmark amounts you need is for small fleets inpossible!!
you need 40-50 fleetevents for ONE daily project at TIER III.
It's Monday morning, and I'm still not playing your game. I still have no intention of playing your game until this situation is satisfactorily addressed, and every moment I might possibly be playing your game I will be sitting right here... on this thread. Carry on.
It's Monday morning, and I'm still not playing your game. I still have no intention of playing your game until this situation is satisfactorily addressed, and every moment I might possibly be playing your game I will be sitting right here... on this thread. Carry on.
I think the issue here is that prior to the change it was a case of the bucket being filled more slowly... now someone shut off the main line. Nearly every person who has spoken about their small fleets has recognized it would take them many times as long to upgrade the base. 2-3 years even. Someone spoke of it as a labor of love. Right now, when those big fleets are already at or very near max Tier and are best equipped in terms of (wo)manpower to overcome the sudden FM reduction, they stand on the hose and staunch the flow and it is the little fleets bringing up the rear that are cut off at a low to mid level Tier.
Yes, I agree. It might have been slow before. Damn near impossible now.
I made some suggestions as to how Cryptic might be able to revamp rewards which includes making Fleet Marks more accessible.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Completely ignoring the Starbase angle to boot. Not that it's actually a surprise.
That's a shameful post.
Anyone that considers the 'clickies' or the 'grinder' missions that followed them 'exploits' is missing the bigger picture - heck, even Stahl doesn't call them exploits:
Concurrently, we also closed a major loophole in Foundry missions in Season 7 which removed Dilithium rewards from what many considered "exploitative" Foundry missions (literally "log in click a button" get a boat of Dilithium).
Instead, he let the community do his dirty work for him.
Cryptic created and deployed the tools, Cryptic set the rewards knowing full well these things were exploitable and now it's turned the community against itself.
I normally enjoy Terilynn's articles but either she really is that naive or she's flying around in shiny new JHAS courtesy of Cryptic because that's some of the most delusional 'reporting' I've ever read from her.
Ok you know what? Now I am ANGRY. I had never seen that thread before (thanks for the link) but now I realize that pretty much every concern we have been voicing here was already voiced to the powers that be along with plenty of warnings that a forum war would ensue. Yet we still get a post from Dan saying this move "needed to happen" and they went ahead with it, without a THOUGHT to the concerns of the players. Without a PAUSE to weigh alternatives to this ill-considered patch.
Ok you know what? Now I am ANGRY. I had never seen that thread before (thanks for the link) but now I realize that pretty much every concern we have been voicing here was already voiced to the powers that be along with plenty of warnings that a forum war would ensue. Yet we still get a post from Dan saying this move "needed to happen" and they went ahead with it, without a THOUGHT to the concerns of the players. Without a PAUSE to weigh alternatives to this ill-considered patch.
Off to revive my characters on SWTOR.
This shouldn't come as a surprise - this is exactly the same as when Season 7 was on Tribble for testing - Cryptic simply don't listen.
Ok you know what? Now I am ANGRY. I had never seen that thread before (thanks for the link) but now I realize that pretty much every concern we have been voicing here was already voiced to the powers that be along with plenty of warnings that a forum war would ensue. Yet we still get a post from Dan saying this move "needed to happen" and they went ahead with it, without a THOUGHT to the concerns of the players. Without a PAUSE to weigh alternatives to this ill-considered patch.
Off to revive my characters on SWTOR.
This happened with every bug in the game, they release it to tribble, we find and report them, cryptic ignores those reports and they go live. :rolleyes:
This has been going on since launch, the only thing with this latest debacle, is that cryptic knew this was going to happen so only released it to tribble one day before it went live, deliberately... :mad:
Completely ignoring the Starbase angle to boot. Not that it's actually a surprise.
Terilynn is awful at reporting on STO -- she's a complete fangurl and incapable of objectivity. My guess is she's auditioning for Brandon's job should he ever leave. I don't remember sho did the STO column before, but they were a lot better on reporting issues instead of always taking the company line.
How MMO companies reach for the stars: "And as far as Season 7 being "grindy" - welcome to the MMORPG genre."
Fun gameplay?! What is that?
Wipe that smile off your face.
Do you understand?!
A Fleet Emblem?! On your uniform?!
What kind of a gamer are you?
We're not gonna take it anymore, Dan.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
"Until recently, 50 fleet marks were rewarded to players who undertook the repeatable Investigate Officer Report Foundry mission. Since the reward's implementation several months ago, a few exploit Foundry authors created numerous versions of the AFK exploit. Cryptic faced an outcry from the Foundry authors whose legitimate missions were being shoved aside in the ratings list in favor of those with the easy take. Although Executive Producer Daniel Stahl also referenced rewards data as an additional reason, the team did remove fleet marks as a reward from the mission wrapper and replaced them with a scaling dilithium reward. The wrath has yet to die down."
LOL, so now the propaganda is blaming the Foundry authors after all? Since the data was only an additional reason:rolleyes:
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
Comments
So what would you suggest as an alternative?
I think it's important that Cryptic accepts that we don't expect something for nothing and that we do care about them being profitable (and in some cases want to give them our money but can't in good conscience because of the way they choose to treat their customers).
There's plenty of players that cheerlead Cryptic because they're putting time into this game and getting everything without having to pay real money - but those lockbox ships on the Exchange, those Master Keys were paid for with real cash and if players stop buying those things then at some point even the F2P'ers will be pissed off when a billion ECs won't buy them anything they want.
But by the point they realise this, STO will already be deep into its death-spiral and it'll be too late - far too late to reverse that.
I want to see long-standing bugs getting fixed, I want to see major changes to the gameplay and economy of STO discussed and tested thoroughly on Tribble then adjusted according to player feedback before they go live.
And I want to see that Cryptic is a company that respects its customers - only then will I consider reinvesting my time and money in this game, because right now it's clear - they don't deserve either.
Well said because every player should be able to have his say, and it should be viewed the same has everyone else say. The problem is they dont listen and learn from what they have done in the past that was wrong. Most companies that do great always say the customer is always right.
Besides a radical corporate culture shift at Cryptic and PWE? Any kind of communications setup, be it a player council, dedicated staff intermediary, weekly seances or whatever, is predicated on both parties entering into it in good faith. Right now, that's just not happening.
Being a member of a small fleet (less than 25 members) and being that most of my fleet are now inactive because they hate what the game has become, means I'm the only one playing. I played every day for the last seven months straight and now I'm bored to hell (have played a lot more obviously, but the last seven months has been a continuous stretch with no other gaming). Repeating the same small amount of missions ad nauseam to attain the smallest token amount of fleet marks is beyond ridiculously dull.
That said, I don't want to leave my fleet, or merge with another fleet. We created our fleet as part of our gaming community, which I set up more than 7 years ago now. We have an active community, just not all of them can be bothered with STO any more. I don't want to be part of another fleet, the fleet I am in means something to me, the people who are a part of it (when they are active at least) are my favourite people to play with, they are my friends and family. So because I don't want to be a nameless face among five hundred, I can't reap the rewards of the starbase upgrades.
Not cool.
Though I'd prefer being told that directly and up front on the main page of the site and having that statement backed up by the game allowing fleets to only be formed with 50+ signatures. Then I wouldn't have wasted my time downloading the game in the first place.
But anyway, I only and mainly posted in this thread to support Olivia. Go Olivia!
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
1. Let the fleet leaders freely set a maximum number of players their fleet can hold.
Scale the prices with this number.
2. Create a new project that can increase this number by - say 5 - for - say 50000 dil and 2500 fleet marks - and a completition time of - say 5 days.
This way a small fleet could set itself to like 25 players and again see progress.
When time comes they could increase their number of players in a slow way and prices rise accordingly. It would prevent big fleets to drop their number of players instantly because it would take a long time to restore to the old number of players after the completition of their goals.
The way it is now my fleet will stop developing after completition of our T3 shipyard.
Watch out for my Starship Comparator app at
http://ssc.levega.de or http://www.stoshipcompare.tk
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nice Idea,but I am willing to bet that the larger fleets would have no problem cutting away the players who don't contribute/play, or contribute little and not bother to reinstate them. We would still be in the same boat.
I would like to think that these types of discussions should maybe be reserved for step two. Step one would imho be an acknowledgement from cryptic/pwe that they messed up and some sort of olive branch to their customers. Then we can begin the discussions on how to fix said problems. Tbh I would like at the very least to see some kind of replacement for the lost FMs first,but again,thats just me.
Keep up the fight
With the last patch you guys have done the most idiotic work ever.
Not only that you have copied the bugs from the test server 1:1 to the holodeck which seriously disturbs any gameplay... no you also have removed the fleet marks from the foundry without any replacement. And now you are telling us that we have to wait till MAY????
That are 3 months that all our Fleets can not make any progress!
I just have to say it again.... 3 months no progress... 3 months of demotivated fleet members... 3 months without any replacements for the losses.
No, even worse... that are 3 months that are practically lost for the fleets.
Now how difficult would have it been to raise the rewards (Fleet Marks) elsewhere as compensation? (even if its just temporarily)
Thats like changing the number 25 to 50... thats a matter of seconds and you easily could apply it with the next patch.
You can not tell us it takes 3 months to change the rewards of the (in my eyes totally boring) fleet actions to an acceptable level.
Seriously... you do interviews with certain magazines or websites and claim there that you like the feedback and cooperation with the players and tell us such a TRIBBLE now.
-> more than 170 pages of complaints about your changes (not even counting all the threads here on the forum). Shouldnt that make you think a bit?
Stop destroying this game with poor decisions based on metrics, please.
I am not a metric, I am a free sentient being!
Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
Do they take into consideration that players can have more chars but actually only play with one? Do they take into consideration the players that are not online everyday to make dilithium? Do they take into consideration that the server has many inactive chars which actually should not be used in your statistics? Do you even consider that new players are not even able to make the full amount of dilithium?
You are for sure calculating with the total amount of chars and the total amount of dilithium per day and that is WRONG. It is a calculation that never can work.
Lets put this straight... I have 6 chars... I only use one of them at a time for the fact that I only have 2 arms and can not split myself. So what does your statistics say about that?
8000dil/6=1333?
Face it, your statistics do not reflect the reality on the game. Period!
Are you claiming to be a SOE/WB Interactive developer?
The "we" in that first sentence could be the "sports team" or "player" version of "we" but that second sentence makes it sound like we now have Sony developers balking at Cryptic. (Or Warner Bros. employees. But WB is to entertainment what Sony is to game publishing.) (And DCUO is a really fun game that seems to have a few good ideas.)
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
ok, you take away again the dilithium, but the fleetmark amounts you need is for small fleets inpossible!!
you need 40-50 fleetevents for ONE daily project at TIER III.
this is not funny anymore!
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5571933#5571933
Still no word from the Devs eh?
*thumbsup*
Yes, I agree. It might have been slow before. Damn near impossible now.
I made some suggestions as to how Cryptic might be able to revamp rewards which includes making Fleet Marks more accessible.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
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http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/18/captains-log-star-trek-onlines-foundry-foibles/
Completely ignoring the Starbase angle to boot. Not that it's actually a surprise.
That's so we can schedule our daily fleet grinds. We'll get those T5 starbases, but it might take a few decades.
STO Resources: <Ship Comparison - All Tiers + Small Craft + Hangar Pets> <Damage Resistance>
<R&D + Upgrade Costs> <Duty Officer Finder> <Suliban Doff Reqs> <Fleet Costs> <Rep Costs>
<Keybind Tour the Galaxy> <Fleet / Armada Management> <Currency Exchange> <Other STO Links>
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=549851
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That's a shameful post.
Anyone that considers the 'clickies' or the 'grinder' missions that followed them 'exploits' is missing the bigger picture - heck, even Stahl doesn't call them exploits:
Instead, he let the community do his dirty work for him.
Cryptic created and deployed the tools, Cryptic set the rewards knowing full well these things were exploitable and now it's turned the community against itself.
I normally enjoy Terilynn's articles but either she really is that naive or she's flying around in shiny new JHAS courtesy of Cryptic because that's some of the most delusional 'reporting' I've ever read from her.
Ok you know what? Now I am ANGRY. I had never seen that thread before (thanks for the link) but now I realize that pretty much every concern we have been voicing here was already voiced to the powers that be along with plenty of warnings that a forum war would ensue. Yet we still get a post from Dan saying this move "needed to happen" and they went ahead with it, without a THOUGHT to the concerns of the players. Without a PAUSE to weigh alternatives to this ill-considered patch.
Off to revive my characters on SWTOR.
This shouldn't come as a surprise - this is exactly the same as when Season 7 was on Tribble for testing - Cryptic simply don't listen.
This happened with every bug in the game, they release it to tribble, we find and report them, cryptic ignores those reports and they go live. :rolleyes:
This has been going on since launch, the only thing with this latest debacle, is that cryptic knew this was going to happen so only released it to tribble one day before it went live, deliberately... :mad:
Terilynn is awful at reporting on STO -- she's a complete fangurl and incapable of objectivity. My guess is she's auditioning for Brandon's job should he ever leave. I don't remember sho did the STO column before, but they were a lot better on reporting issues instead of always taking the company line.
Wipe that smile off your face.
Do you understand?!
A Fleet Emblem?! On your uniform?!
What kind of a gamer are you?
We're not gonna take it anymore, Dan.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
I'll quote part of the text here:
"Until recently, 50 fleet marks were rewarded to players who undertook the repeatable Investigate Officer Report Foundry mission. Since the reward's implementation several months ago, a few exploit Foundry authors created numerous versions of the AFK exploit. Cryptic faced an outcry from the Foundry authors whose legitimate missions were being shoved aside in the ratings list in favor of those with the easy take. Although Executive Producer Daniel Stahl also referenced rewards data as an additional reason, the team did remove fleet marks as a reward from the mission wrapper and replaced them with a scaling dilithium reward. The wrath has yet to die down."
LOL, so now the propaganda is blaming the Foundry authors after all? Since the data was only an additional reason:rolleyes:
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]