"Its all going to end now, isn't it? You are going to destroy this world and start a new one. What is the use of me continuing to defend a doomed planet? Can you see the sense in that?" ~ Julian
"No" ~ Sisko (as Noah)
"No. I am an intelligence agent. And, if there is any one thing I have learned, it is there comes a point... when the odds are against you, and there is no reasonable course of action but to quit.
How do you think I managed to stay alive for so long, when all of my compatriots are dead? It is because I have always known when to quit and walk away." ~ Julian
(Deep Space Nine - "Our Man Bashire")
Perhaps that is something that needs to be considered? If Cryptic is not creating something that is entertaining, I can see only one other viable option. Find another game to play.
"Star Trek: Online" will not be the last game, which carries the name "Star Trek". Within five to ten years from now, I bet there will be another MMO based upon "Star Trek".
*shrugs*
As we all know from experience, not every aspect of "Star Trek" is considered successful. Sometimes you have to call a spade 'a spade', so that you can move on to something else.
I don't fault them for removing Fleet Marks from non-Fleet activities.
I DO fault them for removing Fleet Marks, and not replacing them with an equivalent elsewhere. At the least, all existing "Fleet Events" and "Fleet Actions" should've been given a substantial amount of Fleet Marks as rewards. For that matter, ALL group content (including PVP and STFs) should be given an optional Fleet Mark reward as well.
These Fleet Marks should've been added to the game at the same time as removing them from the Foundry wrapper. It is UNACCEPTABLE to delay adding additional Fleet Marks elsewhere for several days or even weeks. And Mr Stahl suggests we may have to wait several MONTHS ??? That is sooo beyond unacceptable, it just isn't funny anymore.
Season 7 has done alot of rebalancing of where you get various rewards. And not always for the better either. The changes have been made with ZERO community input, before making the changes. And look at all the negative backlash that has been created as a result? First it was the Season 7 Dilithium fiasco, now this... What's next? A response, Mr Stahl?
This will probably never be seen by dstahl or anyone else... and if it is, it will likely be disregarded as coming from the "Stupid Customer, Doesn't Know Anything" mentality. (Yes, I know what that is myself, I used to apply the same mental classification to customers too).
Here's an idea.
The problem is that small fleets are struggling - but the only reason why they haven't left their existing fleet to join a "super-fleet" is because they are tied to their RP or language/country fleet.
Someone else said "Why don't we be able to merge fleets". This is a good idea, but the problem is that there will be too many fleets. However, this provides the basis for my proposal.
How about this.
Have the ability for a player to be able to join a maximum of three fleets; however, only one fleet can be set to "primary" fleet.
A person's primary fleet is simply that - the primary. No changes to the fleet system for that person's primary fleet will occur.
Secondary/tertiary fleets will be different. A player CANNOT buy equipment or supplies from secondary or tertiary fleets, but are still able to contribute resources to fleet projects and be able to visit fleet starbases and embassies.
It's not a perfect solution, but it works.
Why would anyone join and contribute to a Fleet and not be able to reap any of the rewards?
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
"Its all going to end now, isn't it? You are going to destroy this world and start a new one. What is the use of me continuing to defend a doomed planet? Can you see the sense in that?" ~ Julian
"No" ~ Sisko (as Noah)
"No. I am an intelligence agent. And, if there is any one thing I have learned, it is there comes a point... when the odds are against you, and there is no reasonable course of action but to quit.
How do you think I managed to stay alive for so long, when all of my compatriots are dead? It is because I have always known when to quit and walk away." ~ Julian
(Deep Space Nine - "Our Man Bashire")
Perhaps that is something that needs to be considered? If Cryptic is not creating something that is entertaining, I can see only one other viable option. Find another game to play.
"Star Trek: Online" will not be the last game, which carries the name "Star Trek". Within five to ten years from now, I bet there will be another MMO based upon "Star Trek".
*shrugs*
As we all know from experience, not every aspect of "Star Trek" is considered successful. Sometimes you have to call a spade 'a spade', so that you can move on to something else.
Something to think about.
I'm going to point out here that Bashir proceeded to nuked the world (well technically he death-rayed the world, but that's neither here nor there) in order to save his fleet-mates in that episode. He didn't walk away or quit (the line is a play on a conversation he had earlier with Garrack), he took a tack that nobody expected, and ended up winning.
Someone else said "Why don't we be able to merge fleets". This is a good idea, but the problem is that there will be too many fleets. However, this provides the basis for my proposal.
How about this.
Have the ability for a player to be able to join a maximum of three fleets; however, only one fleet can be set to "primary" fleet.
Aside from stated and obvious problems with that idea, it just wouldn't work. The reason I am not in Mega Fleet X is none of those reasons and a fair portion of small fleets are there for similar reasons. Politics, friends, family.
I was in Mega Fleet X, 500 members. I donated some across my alts but my main place in the fleet was to help build the fleet through training new captains, ship builds and captain specs. This could not be measured with the 'Leaderboard' in fleet donation so I was demoted when the fleet leader went on a demotion parade (tirade?).
I was there BEFORE the leader joined the fleet (we started fleet because of 'political' issues from previous fleet) and we gave him fleet control believing he will lead us as before. That was a wrong assumption.
I will NEVER be part of a fleet that isn't comprised of people like minded. I do NOT want to be in Mega Fleet X. I do NOT want to give up my identity (nor expect someone else to) and join/merge with their fleet. I will NOT give up my identity to be a faceless number in someones else's vision for a fleet. Fleet mergers are NOT the answer, forced or otherwise.
Again the fleet mark/star base issues aren't the prominent concern in this thread. Yes this thread may have started with that topic, but having read every post, the main concern is the forced grind and lack of fresh content. For a game that is three years old it still has a pitiful amount of content.
Changes brought about with S7 have changed working content to forced grind. Borg space weapons were NOT removed because they failed to work. On the contrary I have seen them work perfectly. They were removed because they didn't work in minor instances (Assimilated KDF Ships and Borg gates) and they were too easy to acquire. I personally would rather have a weapon that works 90% of the time than no weapon at all.
Anyway...Power to the people! Keep up The Good Fight!
(Guess I should figure out how to do a sig. I have never been so passionate about an idea to post on any forum so personal sigs have never been a concern.)
I didn't play one second of Star Trek online this weekend either. I downloaded Lord of the Rings online instead, on a lark, and love it so far. Old Republic is still going to take another 2 days (at least) to download, really wish Bioware would put it on steam.
And wow, I'm having fun playing a game again! Really almost all my complaints about STO don't exist there, things run smoothly, there's no grind, there's a story, and a soul, things aren't half broken, and unfinished. It really hits home how much better a game then this Roddenberry's legacy deserves.
But you know what? I'd still rather being playing Star Trek Online.
When I logged out a few days ago, my hope was that a week at most would go by, and they would correct this grievous mistake they have made, and I'd come back to STO like nothing ever happened, and go back to grinding merrily away until May.
Now though, I don't know. I'm really having fun with LOTR, so even if things get fixed here, I'm going to be splitting my time between them. And if I enjoy the Old Republic even more so. Right now, even if things were fixed, I think I'd be playing more of LOTR... but that could just be because it's new and fresh.
In the unlikely event Dan Stahl is paying any attention to me or anyone else in this thread, I hope he looks at my case as an example. Not because of my own ego, or narcissism, or delusions of importance. But because 7 days ago he had me as a totally devoted and dedicated customer. All my time and money for video gaming went to his game, and nothing, nothing at all went to anything else.
Now at best, he's going to get half my time, very likely only a third of it. Maybe none of it. Maybe they'll address the problems here and I'll still be happier just playing something else.
And thing is, that loss of my support was totally unnecessary. I would have stayed on, playing like I was, without interruption, never bothering to check out his competitors, if he hadn't done this. It was senseless.
If it could happen to me, then it could happen to other customers too. That's what I hope he pays attention to, not for my sake, but for the sake of this game. They've crossed a line, I'm not ever going to be that loyal again. I don't matter much though, I'm just a number, right? But when enough of us are pushed over that line too, well then you start seeing different numbers. I hope lessons are learned here, because otherwise this is all going to happen again somewhere down the line. And again. and again. Just like it's happened before. Each time losing customers, generating ill will towards the studio and bad word of mouth about the game itself.
But hey, what do I know? I don't have any metrics.
I'm going to point out here that Bashir proceeded to nuked the world (well technically he death-rayed the world, but that's neither here nor there) in order to save his fleet-mates in that episode. He didn't walk away or quit (the line is a play on a conversation he had earlier with Garrack), he took a tack that nobody expected, and ended up winning.
If you stop the quote where I did, you will get the gist of what I am saying. Please do not be that evil. We already have enough sensationalism from politics and mainstream media.
Take no offense but I think you are missing the whole thread line here.
so basicaly what you are suggesting is to multiply the amount of items grinding by a X factor, depending on how many X fleets you join and contribute to? xD
How to say ... Thanks but no thanks
It totally goes against the whole thread wich is :
Too much grind; not enough FUN
Beeing able to join more fleets will result in even more grind and won't solve anything
You missed the whole point of my post.
I am creating an ideal situation for people to remain in the fleets they are in, due to familial/language/country/friends/RP/etc reasons, and still be able to get rewards without having DStahl's option A used, or the current option B (severe toll on fleet members to progress).
This situation would allow people to reap the benefits of a large fleet without having the drawbacks of not enough members, while still retaining their existing small fleet.
Note that it is not merging fleets. Merging involves mixing the fleet rosters together and taking the best starbase. That is not what I propose.
Since most small fleets would not be content with simply having members and no donations to fleet projects, I inserted the ability to donate only. This way, it reduces the amount of provisions used up by fleet members, allowing fleet projects for the smaller fleet to progress without having to re-provision.
Sure, it doesn't really benefit the player. But fleets are NOT about the player. Fleets are about being a part of something bigger, and supporting them.
And yeah, it's not the best idea I've come up with. You are more than welcome to improve upon the three-fleet concept and build on it.
...the main concern is the forced grind and lack of fresh content. For a game that is three years old it still has a pitiful amount of content.
Changes brought about with S7 have changed working content to forced grind. Borg space weapons were NOT removed because they failed to work. On the contrary I have seen them work perfectly. They were removed because they didn't work in minor instances (Assimilated KDF Ships and Borg gates) and they were too easy to acquire. I personally would rather have a weapon that works 90% of the time than no weapon at all.
I agree completely with this. Season 7 is essentially the "grinding season". All we do is grind - now for the fleet starbases, embassies, personal equipment, omega rep, Romulan rep, dil exchange, etc. It is, frankly, ridiculous.
The three-fleet system doesn't exactly help in that regards, but it does help with allowing personal progression without being stuck in a small fleet - essentially, indirectly reducing the amount of grind to get the fleet base to the desired level.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
But hey, what do I know? I don't have any metrics.
Thank you omni. We are people not metrics and should never have been considered as such. As many have stated prior, metrics will never tell how people feel about a game and it's contents.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
Hm, I see your point, however there is one problem with that idea. Why would large fleets allow non-contributing members to reap the benefits of their work? What you are suggesting basicly exist in game right now actually, you can buy fleet ships and fleet gear already. Leave your fleet, join the other one, pay the agreed amount of cash/fleetmarks/whatever, get your gear and leave to rejoin your fleet. The gear is not the issue, the way the current game mechanics attempt to force us to join large fleets and play the game their way, that is the problem.
I wholeheartedly agree with you that there is too much grind as it is though, and that the last thing we need is more grind. We want the fun back in this game!!
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
Too many people to quote, but I agree with the sentiment of NOT merging smaller Fleets.
The smaller Fleets are small because they choose to be. I am one of those 1-man Fleets that Mr. Stahl has mentioned. I'm a 1-man Fleet because I choose to be, and I acknowledge the fact that it will be harder for me to level up my Starbase than if I recruited 500 members. But that's ok. I knew that going in. And I'm not asking for any reduction in costs for Fleet projects. MY Starbase is my long term "project" in STO. And I don't want to lose what I've personally built and invested in through some merger.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
I don't fault them for removing Fleet Marks from non-Fleet activities.
I DO fault them for removing Fleet Marks, and not replacing them with an equivalent elsewhere. At the least, all existing "Fleet Events" and "Fleet Actions" should've been given a substantial amount of Fleet Marks as rewards. For that matter, ALL group content (including PVP and STFs) should be given an optional Fleet Mark reward as well.
These Fleet Marks should've been added to the game at the same time as removing them from the Foundry wrapper. It is UNACCEPTABLE to delay adding additional Fleet Marks elsewhere for several days or even weeks. And Mr Stahl suggests we may have to wait several MONTHS ??? That is sooo beyond unacceptable, it just isn't funny anymore.
Season 7 has done alot of rebalancing of where you get various rewards. And not always for the better either. The changes have been made with ZERO community input, before making the changes. And look at all the negative backlash that has been created as a result? First it was the Season 7 Dilithium fiasco, now this... What's next? A response, Mr Stahl?
This post hits the nail on the head, you would had thought they learned from the dilithium fiasco not to do something like this, it could had simply been averted by say something like we are takeing thefleet marks from the foundry but we are uping the reward in the fleet missions by 25% or how ever much, that way you are takeing them from something you say isnt a fleet thingy and putting it in something that is, see how simple that would had been easy peasy, oh well I hope they will learn from this time,
I absolutely agree a small fleet should be a 'project' but I also agree that it shouldn't be impossible. As stated even a proper sliding scale will cause small fleet still take a decent amount of time but still be plausible in this game's lifetime.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
Here's a suggestion: Folks want to earn fleetmarks for UGC yes? So find a way to tack them on to the rewards for running Spotlight missions.
That way there is some oversight and review for missions. The ones that pass muster (Review by Das Overflake or whoever ) issue fleet-marks and other "bonuses" as seen fit by whatever power reviews missions.
And THIS is the 800 Lb. gorilla in the room; The concept of "Playing as Intended"; we are only to do certain things within their planned framework that is SO restrictive, we are only allowed to use 4 sets for endgame and most new content has both a hard cap from rep marks AND a time cap limit.
Where's the fun in being corralled like cattle just to live up to an internal metric?
I remember as a child going to Knott's Berry Farm. Myself, my brother, and a family friend went on the 'Log Ride' roughly 18 times in a row. It started out as awesome. There was hardly a line! After about the fifth or sixth time it became tedious, less about the experience and more about seeing how many times we could do it.
Currently this is how I feel about this game. It has become less about the actual experience and more about how many times we can do it before we get sick of it. If we continue 'riding the same ride' we get bored. We start to find new venues to relieve said boredom. Some it was 'farming' the IOR. Now some are finding new games.
I myself realized I have a month prepaid to play another game. It may not be the most fun game but the experience is different and much more enjoyable than the one I am currently getting from STO.
I hope that Stahl or whomever has the power to change things realizes what they are doing to this wonderful IP. Please people keep posting your disdain for the current state and direction this game is taking.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
I just wanted to add another voice to the group. We the players stand firm. I have not logged into the game since Thursday and will not until this fiasco is addressed. Keep up the fight, my friends. You know what they say about the squeaky wheel.
I do not like the idea that you guys want us to pay you to play a game that feels more like a second job. Dan, you said "We want players to do this" and "We want players to do that."
We do not work for you. You provide a product we enjoy and we will be happy to pay you for it. But you need to stop producing this in a way that makes players play how you want them to play. For one thing, the community becomes fractured, and another thing, people get bored. Both of these lead to people leaving and therefore not spending money.
I have written many posts about "Playing as Intended" and you speak to the heart of the matter, because the Fleet mark debacle is merely a symptom of that. People need to recognize it like you do, and I think that this is part of what is peeing people off, really.
I absolutely agree a small fleet should be a 'project' but I also agree that it shouldn't be impossible. As stated even a proper sliding scale will cause small fleet still take a decent amount of time but still be plausible in this game's lifetime.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
The problem with the sliding scale or any scaling down of projects based on Fleet size is exactly as has already been mentioned. Larger Fleets will just reduce their membership in order to complete projects faster and cheaper, and then invite members back after completing said projects.
And wasn't it said that project resource amounts were based on having 25 members in the Fleet? If so, then obviously a 500 member Fleet is going to have an easier time than a 5 member Fleet. But the whole reason why there are 500 member Fleets anyway is so they can complete those projects that much faster. If there were a sliding scale based on Fleet size, there would never be Fleets larger than 25 members.
I feel sorry for the low level Fleet members that are going to get booted from their Fleets once Fleet Starbases and all its assests start hitting Tier 5.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
I am creating an ideal situation for people to remain in the fleets they are in, due to familial/language/country/friends/RP/etc reasons, and still be able to get rewards without having DStahl's option A used, or the current option B (severe toll on fleet members to progress).
This situation would allow people to reap the benefits of a large fleet without having the drawbacks of not enough members, while still retaining their existing small fleet.
Note that it is not merging fleets. Merging involves mixing the fleet rosters together and taking the best starbase. That is not what I propose.
Since most small fleets would not be content with simply having members and no donations to fleet projects, I inserted the ability to donate only. This way, it reduces the amount of provisions used up by fleet members, allowing fleet projects for the smaller fleet to progress without having to re-provision.
Sure, it doesn't really benefit the player. But fleets are NOT about the player. Fleets are about being a part of something bigger, and supporting them.
And yeah, it's not the best idea I've come up with. You are more than welcome to improve upon the three-fleet concept and build on it.
[...].
I still don't understand how your ideal way is suppose to help smaller fleets to achieve their starabse?
In what you are saying, it would just allow player beeing in MegaFleet X and Tiny Fleet Y to contribute and get stuff from Mega Fleet x + to contribute to Tiny Fleet Y without getting anything from it.
so it means contributes X2 = grind x2
How is this suppose to scale the small fleet starbase progression at all ?
And yes you miss the point of this thread : its not about small fleet able to buy things it is about small fleet and their starbase progression ! And overall it is about people in small fleet having to GRIND and let the FUN off the way all along
this is the point of this thread
My fleet is only doing the 1000xp projects (meaning no provisioning ones > virtually what you are proposing) and we struggle to get it progressing
Now what you are suggesting already exist :
1 .me from my Tiny Fleet Y, just have to temporary quit my fleet,
2.go buy my way into Mega Fleet X so i can buy there whatever i want since i have a lot of lifetime fleet credits to be spent;
3. Come back to my Tiny friendly fleet Y
It is very easy to find now a T4 fleet and soon a T5 willing to let you buy ships/provisions from their store in eschange of few millions EC.
Larger Fleets will just reduce their membership in order to complete projects faster and cheaper, and then invite members back after completing said projects.
The best proposed solution to this is when you create a fleet you choose (or since you already have a fleet once this 'regulation' is implemented you choose), your fleet size limitations. You choose to be a max size of 50 and even if you have 15 people you will always be paying for that size. You will also never be able to exceed nor change that limitation.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
I have written many posts about "Playing as Intended" and you speak to the heart of the matter, because the Fleet mark debacle is merely a symptom of that. People need to recognize it like you do, and I think that this is part of what is peeing people off, really.
Couldn't agree more with you, I made a post about that myself too. However, I'm sick of being handled and forced to play as intended. Untill this game becomes fun again instead of a massive grindfest I am taking a break. I logged in to change the title of my KDF alt, and that's all I did since thursday and all I plan to do untill something changes around here. If they don't want to listen to us but go by metrics, I'll make sure that I won't be giving them the idea that I'm enjoying the game as it is.
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
My fleet has around 116 members, we have been around for a VERY long time, the fleet started around the time the option to create fleets were made available, after everything that happened we are now down to about 5 active members, and thats ranging from once a day for a couple hours or once a month, my embassy is still tier 0 and starbase is halfway to tier 3 what we lack the most is fleet marks and Dill if it wasn't for that we would have been top tier long ago. Now I'm not one to quit and abandon my fleet for somebody else that might have better stuff, I try VERY hard to do my part. I am one of the top ranking officers and i control holdings, the way I see it is if members are active and that I see that they have jumped in the donations list, thats a good way to show me they want a promotion.
How can 5 "active" members possibly meet the expectations of finishing projects? Right now the devs made my VERY hard situation a million times worse, I want the best for my fleet and I have tried my very best to give it to them....Why are they punishing us?
The best proposed solution to this is when you create a fleet you choose (or since you already have a fleet once this 'regulation' is implemented you choose), your fleet size limitations. You choose to be a max size of 50 and even if you have 15 people you will always be paying for that size. You will also never be able to exceed nor change that limitation.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
Then how do you retroactively institute this on existing Fleets? I tell you, a sliding scale will have Fleet leaders lowballing their membership for the reduced costs in projects. Then what happens to the "excess" members? They get booted, and all the work they put into the Fleet is lost to them except their Fleet Credits. They're left with attempting to join another Fleet of comparable level to the one they were just kicked out of, and I say attempt because recruiting will cease, no Fleet will want more members than the maximum allowed for the minimum expenditure; or start a new Fleet and have to start all over from scratch.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Too many people to quote, but I agree with the sentiment of NOT merging smaller Fleets.
The smaller Fleets are small because they choose to be. I am one of those 1-man Fleets that Mr. Stahl has mentioned. I'm a 1-man Fleet because I choose to be, and I acknowledge the fact that it will be harder for me to level up my Starbase than if I recruited 500 members. But that's ok. I knew that going in. And I'm not asking for any reduction in costs for Fleet projects. MY Starbase is my long term "project" in STO. And I don't want to lose what I've personally built and invested in through some merger.
I agree 98% with this!!
What I don't agree with is that it's not OK......I did NOT know this when my fleet was created waay back in head start before the game launched. This whole Large Fleet favouritism stinks.....I and my fleet mate have been perfectly happy to not join other larger fleets for the WHOLE time leading up to this.........but now we have ACTUALLY discussed leaving our beloved head start fleet.......NO Why the hell should we? FIX THIS.....if you can't create an option for smaller fleets to have the same access to shiney sparkly pixels that the large fleets do.....then quite simply get out of making games.
You COULD introduce fleet ship limitations......like perhaps a daily allowance of fleet ships and mods BASED on the membership numbers of fleets.....per account if you want to be really scroogey.
But no......still as Blebbington said it's odd that the fm nerf happens just after certain 'spesh' fleets hit t5 eh?
Then how do you retroactively institute this on existing Fleets? I tell you, a sliding scale will have Fleet leaders lowballing their membership for the reduced costs in projects. Then what happens to the "excess" members? They get booted, and all the work they put into the Fleet is lost to them except their Fleet Credits. They're left with attempting to join another Fleet of comparable level to the one they were just kicked out of, and I say attempt because recruiting will cease, no Fleet will want more members than the maximum allowed for the minimum expenditure; or start a new Fleet and have to start all over from scratch.
There has to be a minimum that a fleet can select to prevent said 'exploit' from happening. If you have a fleet of 167 you would not be able to select a maximum fleet size lower than your current fleet size.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
Comments
"Its all going to end now, isn't it? You are going to destroy this world and start a new one. What is the use of me continuing to defend a doomed planet? Can you see the sense in that?" ~ Julian
"No" ~ Sisko (as Noah)
"No. I am an intelligence agent. And, if there is any one thing I have learned, it is there comes a point... when the odds are against you, and there is no reasonable course of action but to quit.
How do you think I managed to stay alive for so long, when all of my compatriots are dead? It is because I have always known when to quit and walk away." ~ Julian
(Deep Space Nine - "Our Man Bashire")
Perhaps that is something that needs to be considered? If Cryptic is not creating something that is entertaining, I can see only one other viable option. Find another game to play.
"Star Trek: Online" will not be the last game, which carries the name "Star Trek". Within five to ten years from now, I bet there will be another MMO based upon "Star Trek".
*shrugs*
As we all know from experience, not every aspect of "Star Trek" is considered successful. Sometimes you have to call a spade 'a spade', so that you can move on to something else.
Something to think about.
I DO fault them for removing Fleet Marks, and not replacing them with an equivalent elsewhere. At the least, all existing "Fleet Events" and "Fleet Actions" should've been given a substantial amount of Fleet Marks as rewards. For that matter, ALL group content (including PVP and STFs) should be given an optional Fleet Mark reward as well.
These Fleet Marks should've been added to the game at the same time as removing them from the Foundry wrapper. It is UNACCEPTABLE to delay adding additional Fleet Marks elsewhere for several days or even weeks. And Mr Stahl suggests we may have to wait several MONTHS ??? That is sooo beyond unacceptable, it just isn't funny anymore.
Season 7 has done alot of rebalancing of where you get various rewards. And not always for the better either. The changes have been made with ZERO community input, before making the changes. And look at all the negative backlash that has been created as a result? First it was the Season 7 Dilithium fiasco, now this... What's next? A response, Mr Stahl?
Why would anyone join and contribute to a Fleet and not be able to reap any of the rewards?
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I'm going to point out here that Bashir proceeded to nuked the world (well technically he death-rayed the world, but that's neither here nor there) in order to save his fleet-mates in that episode. He didn't walk away or quit (the line is a play on a conversation he had earlier with Garrack), he took a tack that nobody expected, and ended up winning.
Aside from stated and obvious problems with that idea, it just wouldn't work. The reason I am not in Mega Fleet X is none of those reasons and a fair portion of small fleets are there for similar reasons. Politics, friends, family.
I was in Mega Fleet X, 500 members. I donated some across my alts but my main place in the fleet was to help build the fleet through training new captains, ship builds and captain specs. This could not be measured with the 'Leaderboard' in fleet donation so I was demoted when the fleet leader went on a demotion parade (tirade?).
I was there BEFORE the leader joined the fleet (we started fleet because of 'political' issues from previous fleet) and we gave him fleet control believing he will lead us as before. That was a wrong assumption.
I will NEVER be part of a fleet that isn't comprised of people like minded. I do NOT want to be in Mega Fleet X. I do NOT want to give up my identity (nor expect someone else to) and join/merge with their fleet. I will NOT give up my identity to be a faceless number in someones else's vision for a fleet. Fleet mergers are NOT the answer, forced or otherwise.
Again the fleet mark/star base issues aren't the prominent concern in this thread. Yes this thread may have started with that topic, but having read every post, the main concern is the forced grind and lack of fresh content. For a game that is three years old it still has a pitiful amount of content.
Changes brought about with S7 have changed working content to forced grind. Borg space weapons were NOT removed because they failed to work. On the contrary I have seen them work perfectly. They were removed because they didn't work in minor instances (Assimilated KDF Ships and Borg gates) and they were too easy to acquire. I personally would rather have a weapon that works 90% of the time than no weapon at all.
Anyway...Power to the people! Keep up The Good Fight!
(Guess I should figure out how to do a sig. I have never been so passionate about an idea to post on any forum so personal sigs have never been a concern.)
I don't want either merge my small but friendly made fleet into some unpersonal swarm.
I didn't play one second of Star Trek online this weekend either. I downloaded Lord of the Rings online instead, on a lark, and love it so far. Old Republic is still going to take another 2 days (at least) to download, really wish Bioware would put it on steam.
And wow, I'm having fun playing a game again! Really almost all my complaints about STO don't exist there, things run smoothly, there's no grind, there's a story, and a soul, things aren't half broken, and unfinished. It really hits home how much better a game then this Roddenberry's legacy deserves.
But you know what? I'd still rather being playing Star Trek Online.
When I logged out a few days ago, my hope was that a week at most would go by, and they would correct this grievous mistake they have made, and I'd come back to STO like nothing ever happened, and go back to grinding merrily away until May.
Now though, I don't know. I'm really having fun with LOTR, so even if things get fixed here, I'm going to be splitting my time between them. And if I enjoy the Old Republic even more so. Right now, even if things were fixed, I think I'd be playing more of LOTR... but that could just be because it's new and fresh.
In the unlikely event Dan Stahl is paying any attention to me or anyone else in this thread, I hope he looks at my case as an example. Not because of my own ego, or narcissism, or delusions of importance. But because 7 days ago he had me as a totally devoted and dedicated customer. All my time and money for video gaming went to his game, and nothing, nothing at all went to anything else.
Now at best, he's going to get half my time, very likely only a third of it. Maybe none of it. Maybe they'll address the problems here and I'll still be happier just playing something else.
And thing is, that loss of my support was totally unnecessary. I would have stayed on, playing like I was, without interruption, never bothering to check out his competitors, if he hadn't done this. It was senseless.
If it could happen to me, then it could happen to other customers too. That's what I hope he pays attention to, not for my sake, but for the sake of this game. They've crossed a line, I'm not ever going to be that loyal again. I don't matter much though, I'm just a number, right? But when enough of us are pushed over that line too, well then you start seeing different numbers. I hope lessons are learned here, because otherwise this is all going to happen again somewhere down the line. And again. and again. Just like it's happened before. Each time losing customers, generating ill will towards the studio and bad word of mouth about the game itself.
But hey, what do I know? I don't have any metrics.
You missed the whole point of my post.
I am creating an ideal situation for people to remain in the fleets they are in, due to familial/language/country/friends/RP/etc reasons, and still be able to get rewards without having DStahl's option A used, or the current option B (severe toll on fleet members to progress).
This situation would allow people to reap the benefits of a large fleet without having the drawbacks of not enough members, while still retaining their existing small fleet.
Note that it is not merging fleets. Merging involves mixing the fleet rosters together and taking the best starbase. That is not what I propose.
Since most small fleets would not be content with simply having members and no donations to fleet projects, I inserted the ability to donate only. This way, it reduces the amount of provisions used up by fleet members, allowing fleet projects for the smaller fleet to progress without having to re-provision.
Sure, it doesn't really benefit the player. But fleets are NOT about the player. Fleets are about being a part of something bigger, and supporting them.
And yeah, it's not the best idea I've come up with. You are more than welcome to improve upon the three-fleet concept and build on it.
I agree completely with this. Season 7 is essentially the "grinding season". All we do is grind - now for the fleet starbases, embassies, personal equipment, omega rep, Romulan rep, dil exchange, etc. It is, frankly, ridiculous.
The three-fleet system doesn't exactly help in that regards, but it does help with allowing personal progression without being stuck in a small fleet - essentially, indirectly reducing the amount of grind to get the fleet base to the desired level.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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Thank you omni. We are people not metrics and should never have been considered as such. As many have stated prior, metrics will never tell how people feel about a game and it's contents.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
Hm, I see your point, however there is one problem with that idea. Why would large fleets allow non-contributing members to reap the benefits of their work? What you are suggesting basicly exist in game right now actually, you can buy fleet ships and fleet gear already. Leave your fleet, join the other one, pay the agreed amount of cash/fleetmarks/whatever, get your gear and leave to rejoin your fleet. The gear is not the issue, the way the current game mechanics attempt to force us to join large fleets and play the game their way, that is the problem.
I wholeheartedly agree with you that there is too much grind as it is though, and that the last thing we need is more grind. We want the fun back in this game!!
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The smaller Fleets are small because they choose to be. I am one of those 1-man Fleets that Mr. Stahl has mentioned. I'm a 1-man Fleet because I choose to be, and I acknowledge the fact that it will be harder for me to level up my Starbase than if I recruited 500 members. But that's ok. I knew that going in. And I'm not asking for any reduction in costs for Fleet projects. MY Starbase is my long term "project" in STO. And I don't want to lose what I've personally built and invested in through some merger.
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Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
And THIS is the 800 Lb. gorilla in the room; The concept of "Playing as Intended"; we are only to do certain things within their planned framework that is SO restrictive, we are only allowed to use 4 sets for endgame and most new content has both a hard cap from rep marks AND a time cap limit.
Where's the fun in being corralled like cattle just to live up to an internal metric?
I remember as a child going to Knott's Berry Farm. Myself, my brother, and a family friend went on the 'Log Ride' roughly 18 times in a row. It started out as awesome. There was hardly a line! After about the fifth or sixth time it became tedious, less about the experience and more about seeing how many times we could do it.
Currently this is how I feel about this game. It has become less about the actual experience and more about how many times we can do it before we get sick of it. If we continue 'riding the same ride' we get bored. We start to find new venues to relieve said boredom. Some it was 'farming' the IOR. Now some are finding new games.
I myself realized I have a month prepaid to play another game. It may not be the most fun game but the experience is different and much more enjoyable than the one I am currently getting from STO.
I hope that Stahl or whomever has the power to change things realizes what they are doing to this wonderful IP. Please people keep posting your disdain for the current state and direction this game is taking.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
I have written many posts about "Playing as Intended" and you speak to the heart of the matter, because the Fleet mark debacle is merely a symptom of that. People need to recognize it like you do, and I think that this is part of what is peeing people off, really.
The problem with the sliding scale or any scaling down of projects based on Fleet size is exactly as has already been mentioned. Larger Fleets will just reduce their membership in order to complete projects faster and cheaper, and then invite members back after completing said projects.
And wasn't it said that project resource amounts were based on having 25 members in the Fleet? If so, then obviously a 500 member Fleet is going to have an easier time than a 5 member Fleet. But the whole reason why there are 500 member Fleets anyway is so they can complete those projects that much faster. If there were a sliding scale based on Fleet size, there would never be Fleets larger than 25 members.
I feel sorry for the low level Fleet members that are going to get booted from their Fleets once Fleet Starbases and all its assests start hitting Tier 5.
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I still don't understand how your ideal way is suppose to help smaller fleets to achieve their starabse?
In what you are saying, it would just allow player beeing in MegaFleet X and Tiny Fleet Y to contribute and get stuff from Mega Fleet x + to contribute to Tiny Fleet Y without getting anything from it.
so it means contributes X2 = grind x2
How is this suppose to scale the small fleet starbase progression at all ?
And yes you miss the point of this thread : its not about small fleet able to buy things it is about small fleet and their starbase progression !
And overall it is about people in small fleet having to GRIND and let the FUN off the way all along
this is the point of this thread
My fleet is only doing the 1000xp projects (meaning no provisioning ones > virtually what you are proposing) and we struggle to get it progressing
Now what you are suggesting already exist :
1 .me from my Tiny Fleet Y, just have to temporary quit my fleet,
2.go buy my way into Mega Fleet X so i can buy there whatever i want since i have a lot of lifetime fleet credits to be spent;
3. Come back to my Tiny friendly fleet Y
It is very easy to find now a T4 fleet and soon a T5 willing to let you buy ships/provisions from their store in eschange of few millions EC.
The best proposed solution to this is when you create a fleet you choose (or since you already have a fleet once this 'regulation' is implemented you choose), your fleet size limitations. You choose to be a max size of 50 and even if you have 15 people you will always be paying for that size. You will also never be able to exceed nor change that limitation.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
Couldn't agree more with you, I made a post about that myself too. However, I'm sick of being handled and forced to play as intended. Untill this game becomes fun again instead of a massive grindfest I am taking a break. I logged in to change the title of my KDF alt, and that's all I did since thursday and all I plan to do untill something changes around here. If they don't want to listen to us but go by metrics, I'll make sure that I won't be giving them the idea that I'm enjoying the game as it is.
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
How can 5 "active" members possibly meet the expectations of finishing projects? Right now the devs made my VERY hard situation a million times worse, I want the best for my fleet and I have tried my very best to give it to them....Why are they punishing us?
This thread is far too long for me to keep track of, but I really like this idea.
Then how do you retroactively institute this on existing Fleets? I tell you, a sliding scale will have Fleet leaders lowballing their membership for the reduced costs in projects. Then what happens to the "excess" members? They get booted, and all the work they put into the Fleet is lost to them except their Fleet Credits. They're left with attempting to join another Fleet of comparable level to the one they were just kicked out of, and I say attempt because recruiting will cease, no Fleet will want more members than the maximum allowed for the minimum expenditure; or start a new Fleet and have to start all over from scratch.
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I agree 98% with this!!
What I don't agree with is that it's not OK......I did NOT know this when my fleet was created waay back in head start before the game launched. This whole Large Fleet favouritism stinks.....I and my fleet mate have been perfectly happy to not join other larger fleets for the WHOLE time leading up to this.........but now we have ACTUALLY discussed leaving our beloved head start fleet.......NO Why the hell should we? FIX THIS.....if you can't create an option for smaller fleets to have the same access to shiney sparkly pixels that the large fleets do.....then quite simply get out of making games.
You COULD introduce fleet ship limitations......like perhaps a daily allowance of fleet ships and mods BASED on the membership numbers of fleets.....per account if you want to be really scroogey.
But no......still as Blebbington said it's odd that the fm nerf happens just after certain 'spesh' fleets hit t5 eh?
There has to be a minimum that a fleet can select to prevent said 'exploit' from happening. If you have a fleet of 167 you would not be able to select a maximum fleet size lower than your current fleet size.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!