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Update on Fleet Marks and Dilithium

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  • madblooddollmadblooddoll Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Good thing we do the exact opposite with DCUO. Most people want to feel powerful in our research.
  • zeus#0893 zeus Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Yes the "ears" are closed right now, but...

    Every change and every movement...Started with just one person!

    "We herd sheep, we drive cattle, we lead people.
    Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way!"
    General George S. Patton


    PWE/Cryptic Stop the FARM, Bring back the FUN!

    Zeus
  • eristhevortaeristhevorta Member Posts: 1,049 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2013
    Meow, I just wanted to speak out my support to Olivia in this topic. She's one of the most mature members I've met in the game since I started playing, and she's standing up for the community. If there was to be a council formed, she should be leading that council. :)

    Anyway, I have left STO in December 2012 and I am not coming back. Too bad I got lifetime, but this time it's just not worth to return anymore. I've had a half-year-break before and when I returned for the first time, I've had fun for less than another half year. I used to have two mains (FED, KDF) and two alts on each side, each career in each faction possible. After the changes made in Season 7, I had to drop all alts and after some time I even dropped the KDF main. In December, I finally decided to even drop my last character which was the only one with a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship. I didn't even bother saving the EC and gear I had, I just pressed "Delete Character" and it was done with.

    By now, it's not worth to have a single character anymore, because all you can basically do is to not have fun. Also, since the game went free-to-play, doing PUGs is a lot harder as there are so many AFKers around. Going free-to-play was the biggest mistake in my opinion, but it might have just saved the game back then as it was in such a bad state when Atari was at the wheel. Now with PWE at the wheel, it's not a lot better, but it's just that much better that it's able to survive in this F2P state. However, it's not guaranteed to survive another 3 years, even with F2P, if such actions and decisions are taken and executed.

    However, with experience, I began to realise that if a thread is going to the 3-digit pages, at least it's noticed by not just Dan Stahl who's like in the middle of two fronts (PWE on one, customer base / his own team on the other), but also the exectives at PWE. I won't come back to STO, but I hope for those who are still trying to keep this place alive and at least a little bit kindergarten-free, that your fight here is doing some good.

    Go Olivia! *hug for you* Go community! Go us! All for one and one for all, in the true sense of the Federation.

    ~ Eris The Vorta
    "Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
    Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
  • picardtheiiipicardtheiii Member Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Take Back The Power!!!


    The Changes Suck!!!


    We Wont Take It Anymore!!


    'merica!!!
  • xlocutusofborgxxlocutusofborgx Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Just wanted to chime in again on this thread, i support change, change is needed. Fix the situation cryptic!
    borgsignaturecopy2-zpse8618517.png
    R E S I S T A N C E - I S - F U T I L E
  • phyrexianherophyrexianhero Member Posts: 768 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Long story short, these are the major issues and I hope Cryptic will learn something from it:
    • A big change was made with almost no notice - a patch to Tribble the day before it goes live (note the patch itself didn't even mention the removal of fleet marks from IOR), with no prior dev hints or comments that it'd happen
    • A major loss of a needed resource, with no alternatives ready to go (Stahl said they plan to add more fleet mark sources...over the next three months or so. That is not comforting!).
    • Follow-up: I give credit to Dan starting this thread (the third one on the fleet mark issue) but posting on a Thursday and then having nothing to report for several days does not calm a very upset player base. This thread is now the most-posted in the Federation News Network since the forum upgrade in June).

    So for future reference: give warning of major changes, make sure dev-made changes to the economy have some way to not wildly disrupt supply/demand, anticipate player response before it becomes a firestorm.

    And Brandon: you have a tough job. I do appreciate your dedication to reading every single post in the thread.
    Playing since January 2010. STOwiki administrator. Accolade hunter.
    My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
    Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
    KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
  • roejspinodjiroejspinodji Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Whohaa, I had great fun in yesterdays pvp again. Was flying in a cruiser and in order to do some dmg, I had as usual my trico mines and Beta2 running. But now after the nerv....
    Ok, what happened.... a single Moebius ship came along, stunned me with a subnuke beam, took away my aux with a graviton beam and plunged a AttackPattern Beta into me (as I was stunned by the subnuke, tac team was useless) and shot me into pieces in seconds with his DHC. A 1vs1 situation with no chance for me to survive or escape.

    GREAT BALANCING Cryptic.... You guys really made my day.

    In the past I was dropping some trico mines behind my ship to cover my TRIBBLE, but now after the nerv they dont do any good dmg any more. The escorts laugh at them. Even Quantum mines do more dmg per volley now.
    Thanks for buffing the escorts again !

    And by the way, for every bug solved, 2 new ones pop up. Dont you have a Quality Control in your company? This game is really starting to TRIBBLE me off.... me fool who was stupid enough to invest cash into a lifetime.... Arghhhhhhh......
  • crownvic2doorcrownvic2door Member Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Yeah I was trying to figure out a way to afford a lifetime sub without my wife hanging me by my ankles and beating me to a mushy pulp with her Wok, But after the recent changes I'd be a complete moron to drop $300 on a sub for a game that CONSTANTLY pisses me off, yet for some reason I can't quit leave, it was said before its like watching a train wreck, or a toddler playing in the freeway, anticipating a horrible disaster, yet cannot look away from it.

    Can't they see this is hurting the consumer? This isn't the way to win hearts and open wallets guys! FIX IT. GIVE ME A REASON TO PAY...
  • pupibirdpupibird Member Posts: 128 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I am sooo sorry that I also have to add my negative two cents here, but after staring at the screen and the game for hours in the last few days, not knowing what to do except for clicking the doff UI from time to time...my "love" is fading..

    even making my earned gold shoulders worthless some weeks ago wasnt this hard for me, I was OK with the dilitium influence you programmed into every little piece of the game, and above my lifettime account I sent you more than 1000,- Euro in the last 3 years...you made the foundry worthless again, and all other content (as nice as it is).. I just cant repeat it anymore after hundrets of times...

    I am member of a small fleet and my goal was to get fleetmarks and progress the fleetbase and wait for some other fleetmembers to return to STO one day.. but now there is nothing left to do for me.

    Sad..but now my dog is happy ..I'll go for a walk with him now..done with the grind) LLAP
  • guili1guili1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I am really really really wondering...
    I run a fleet with less then 150 (~50players) chars and we have a lot of active players, at least 20-30 per day with more then one char.
    We never had any issue with fleetmarks, we waste fletmarks in stupid projects, just because we have so much.
    Everyone in the fleet is earning the max. amount of daily dilithium! There is enough dilithium to earn. We don`t need more unrefined Dilithium, it is just fine.
    But what we need is get this stupid 8000 refine limit raised. Most of my fleet mates have tons of unrefined dilithium, because they are earning more then they are able to refine!!!
    Increase this to 12.000 per day instead of 8000, raising the embassy to tier 2 was a pain because of 1.000.000 dilithium.
    And I am just afraid about how long it will take to finish T4 starbase...
    I probably will never own my absolute favourite Fleet T5 Assault cruiser, because this is far above our abilities and everyone in our fleet is willing to spend as much as possible.
    There is every day a run on our new projects who can fill in his resources first.. But T5 for medium fleets is a no chance at all!

    Forgive my bad english, I had not enough sleep the last nights...
  • brucebleobrucebleo Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    If there was to be a council formed, she should be leading that council. :)

    If there was to be a council formed?

    I take it then you weren't around when Cryptic tried that one last time HAHAHAHA!!!

    A player council that was created with no ELECTED representatives with certain 'Special' people *coughBorticuscough* among other unknown folks getting a conference call every week with the Devs so they could put forth their suggestions.....preferential treatment much? The backlash from the forum users back then would make this fleet mark episode look like a day out at the funfair.

    Nooooooo thank you......
  • smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    An un-elected council is just an oligarchy.
    EnYn9p9.jpg
  • otowiotowi Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I still can't believe that Cryptic has not answered in this thread. WE need to get this changed ASAP.

    I feel this quote fits well in this case:

    Yoda: "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."
  • smallrougesmallrouge Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Dude! You will have access to the same "shineys", it's just going to take you longer to get there. There is no favoritism towards large Fleets, it's just simple math. More people filling the bucket means the bucket gets filled faster.

    I think the issue here is that prior to the change it was a case of the bucket being filled more slowly... now someone shut off the main line. Nearly every person who has spoken about their small fleets has recognized it would take them many times as long to upgrade the base. 2-3 years even. Someone spoke of it as a labor of love. Right now, when those big fleets are already at or very near max Tier and are best equipped in terms of (wo)manpower to overcome the sudden FM reduction, they stand on the hose and staunch the flow and it is the little fleets bringing up the rear that are cut off at a low to mid level Tier.
  • brucebleobrucebleo Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    otowi wrote: »
    I still can't believe that Cryptic has not answered in this thread. WE need to get this changed ASAP.

    I feel this quote fits well in this case:

    Yoda: "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

    Brandon replied but didn't really answer......so there has been some acknowledgement but nothing of any help.
  • chorkswaldchorkswald Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    Greetings!

    Due to the tuning we?ve done with Season 7, players are now earning more Dilithium than ever

    There is something very wrong with your math...................
    "But it ain't all buttons and charts, little albatross. You know what the first rule of flyin' is? Love. You can know all the math in the 'Verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells ya she's hurtin' 'fore she keens. Makes her home."
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Now the 8th most commented news post since the game launched in 2010 :)
    Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
  • captainoblivouscaptainoblivous Member Posts: 2,284 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Now the 8th most commented news post since the game launched in 2010 :)

    What would it take to make the top Kaz?
    I need a beer.

  • chorkswaldchorkswald Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Now the 8th most commented news post since the game launched in 2010 :)

    That would be because fo the community anger that is building......i predict a riot in May when they TRIBBLE us over with some new thing......that isn't a Romulan faction.........
    "But it ain't all buttons and charts, little albatross. You know what the first rule of flyin' is? Love. You can know all the math in the 'Verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells ya she's hurtin' 'fore she keens. Makes her home."
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    What would it take to make the top Kaz?

    Oh, we won't get there (unless Dan posts something here that outrages the community even more :D) - the most commented archived post was about server downtime during the beta and it had 4,372 posts :)
    chorkswald wrote: »
    That would be because fo the community anger that is building......i predict a riot in May when they TRIBBLE us over with some new thing......that isn't a Romulan faction.........

    Not to mention new and (un)interesting ways to squeeze us for more time and/or money :rolleyes:
    Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
  • brucebleobrucebleo Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Oh, we won't get there (unless Dan posts something here that outrages the community even more :D) - the most commented archived post was about server downtime during the beta and it had 4,372 posts :)

    Very odd.......I'm sure there were bigger threads then that? Or is that just from the Fed News Network? As I am quite sure there were some stupendously EPIC threads in General discussion on the old forum......It could be my old age and memory failing or maybe some of the threads mysteriously dissapeared? Idk......but 4k posts for downtime during beta just doesn't seem as epic as some of the other threads like I am sure there were some truly epic ones about the borked skill tree back then.....when I say borked I mean more borked than it is now ofc....lol
  • chorkswaldchorkswald Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Not to mention new and (un)interesting ways to squeeze us for more time and/or money :rolleyes:

    ^^ That is the number one grip i have with the games new direction......all this money grabing an time gateing.........makeing us wait for over a month when we cuold have done all the rep TRIBBLE in a few days.......
    "But it ain't all buttons and charts, little albatross. You know what the first rule of flyin' is? Love. You can know all the math in the 'Verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells ya she's hurtin' 'fore she keens. Makes her home."
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    brucebleo wrote: »
    Very odd.......I'm sure there were bigger threads then that? Or is that just from the Fed News Network? As I am quite sure there were some stupendously EPIC threads in General discussion on the old forum......It could be my old age and memory failing or maybe some of the threads mysteriously dissapeared? Idk......but 4k posts for downtime during beta just doesn't seem as epic as some of the other threads like I am sure there were some truly epic ones about the borked skill tree back then.....when I say borked I mean more borked than it is now ofc....lol

    Well this is just in the news section, but this is where the Dilithium nerf of S7 was debated since most of the comments tailed Stahl's post justifying them.

    Also, there's a lot of threads with more views than this one but less comments.
    Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
  • bluedemon67bluedemon67 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    tpalelena wrote: »
    I mean no disrespect, but now there is no reason to do the Foundry missions at all.

    STF elites give good dilithium AND Omega marks.
    (And no, don't nerf that. It did not end well last time.)

    Also romulan and especially fleet marks are hard to earn.

    It would be good to see some "Elite" romulan and fleet events that are relativly short (8-15 minutes ) but still give a good amount of marks.

    The only fleet mission that gives relativly good amount of marks for the time invested is a Colony invasion with a very good team.


    Also... who ever saw a fleet of 500 members? I have not seen one with over 50 members in a long time.

    It may be better to adjust the amount of resources fleet projects cost based on the average fleet sizes, not a theoretical maximum fleet membership limit that is almost totally unheard of.

    this is probably the truest statement on here
    but if there are 500 person fleets, they are rare.
    it's more likely that there are more 5 and 10 person fllets than there are any other.
    if i were a betting man, i would have to say that the 5 to 10 person fleets are also the most active fleets. were as a 500 person fleet would be full of AFK members and alt
    they really need to look into how many alts a person would have in those fleets
    i know personally that i have a few alts and they are all in the same fleet
    my fleet roster shows that we have 179 members. after considering how many alts i have i went through my list line for line and counted how many members we rally have based on the amount of alts most members have , and we truely have less than 40 members,
    and some have not played for awhile.
    if these so called 500 hundred person fleets counted their AFK members and their alts and the alts of the players that were active they too would notice that they would have less than 60 or 70 members then theres the fact with most fleets some players join the fleets,
    and never play with the other members or have very little interaction, with that counted in, i would have to say with 500 or 5 members it doesn't matter, these missions are to expensive to continue, and taking away a little releif is a real d*ck move or their part.
    it would be like saying no more asprin, i don't care that you have a headache. LOL
    no stitches for you just put a bandaid on it, throw some more salt in the wound it doesn't hurt enough yet.
  • bluedemon67bluedemon67 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    make a currency exchange to cover all currencies, examples to include : dilitium , ec , marks all 3, ec, data samples rare and common,common and uncommon rep materials, zen, borg nuero processors, you get the idea everything that is used to buy something,
    which is something else i wanted to address, i thought they were putting in the dilithium and what not back in season 6 and consolidating currencies. to eliminate having succh a cluster F*** of currencies, LOL good job on that one, there are more now than ever before.
  • animusredwinganimusredwing Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I am thinking we need a summary post of the top 10 community suggestions to give to cryptic. This thread is very long and we don't want a potential good idea glossed over because the devs do not read all 150 pages.

    Lets stay focused offering constructive ways to fix the problem.


    From what I have seen reading the thread I think the anger is not really about the marks. It's more about:

    1). Gated/forced content , players wanting more options in the content to get rewards. No one likes having to do same content over and over.

    2) Small fleets feeling the squeeze as more and more grinds added to game. Tier 5 is exceedingly feeling out of reach unless you are in a mega fleet.

    3) General lack of content.

    Some of the suggestions I have seen:

    1) let players earn fleet marks in any mission they group with other fleet mates. 1-5x rewards scalable for all game content.

    2) cross faction fleet mates being able to group since kdf queues are dead. I.E my kdf and fed fleets can be sister fleets so my team can still play together in fleet events.

    3) only have one type of marks' to reduce currencies and allow players to do more varied content. All content gives marks.

    4) increase fleet mark rewards in all missions significantly. Make missions with low play numbers have increased rewards.

    5) various ideas on scalable fleet requirements such as size of fleet, number of accounts which have been in the fleet at any time, number of contributing members etc.

    6) fleet mark exchange from one type to another

    7) exchange for all types of inputs. Like bio neutrals, marks etc

    If anyone else can help summarize people's ideas I can add to this list and repost.
    REDWING (fed), DOQ TEL SUVWI'S (kdf)
    FED TIER 5 KDF TIER 4 - MAX HOLDINGS
    All welcome, pm @animusrevertendi
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  • lordagamemnonb5lordagamemnonb5 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    An un-elected council is just an oligarchy.

    Even an elected council can become an oligarchy. In fact, all forms of government will become oligarchies if the same types of people (or the same person/people) are being constantly elected.

    Because of that there may need to be rules to ensure a fair diversity for any forum council election so that a good representation of the player base is presented (like hardcore and casual players, KDF and FED, PvPers and PvEers etc.)
    How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
    Star Trek: The Original Grind
    Star Trek: The Next Grind
    Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
    Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I find it very amusing that folks seem to think any kind of player council would be anything more than a showpiece to be used to distract the masses, while Cryptic keeps on ignoring whatever it wants to ignore.
  • brucebleobrucebleo Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I find it very amusing that folks seem to think any kind of player council would be anything more than a showpiece to be used to distract the masses, while Cryptic keeps on ignoring whatever it wants to ignore.

    ^ this

    that is what it was last time.
  • thebumblethebumble Member Posts: 2
    edited February 2013
    Happy Monday Morning Star Trek Online!

    I'll be surprised if anyone from Cryptic comments today as it is a holiday, and, most likely, their still hoping we will all go away by tomorrow. Be patient, and save all your good posts for tomorrow when their doors open and their in the office.

    I noticed there was a post over at MMORPG in the General Discussion forum about the problem here, as well as the SWTOR forums. Interesting that the problems facing STO are being compared to SWTOR, the company wants you to play the game on rails running down a narrow route they want you to have to grind to advance your character and starbase...

    Anywho, keep posting the great posts, some of the ideas being put forth are awesome. Hope Cryptic is watching...
This discussion has been closed.