My KDF fleet Beautiful Orions will do just fine without this because we actually run the Fleet mark events together as a fleet. We do the 20 man starbase defense flawlessly and thats around 100 marks per person for 20 people each time and we can get groups for this together several times a day if needed.
The idea behind having a fleet and starbase is you are supposed to grow your fleet big enough so you can also do stuff like this and not have to rely on the public queues.
Congratulations on your success.
I've seen you guys around, impressive squad. In fact I dare say you can always see a Beautiful Orion somewhere in a zone.
But there are people who don't play well with others. I'm primarily a solo player. I've also contributed more to my fleet than anyone else save the founder. Why should we who don't want to "play together" be punished and hamstringed for having a different play style? especially if we're willing to put in the work? There should be a balance. The IOR Fleet Marks was a good balance. Narrow, but effective.
In addition, if I go into a fleet alert, I usually suffer lag. And that hampers my performance and hurts the team. So I don't like to and it isn't fun.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I am not sure of the purpose of removing fleet marks from the foundry, but i do believe its short sighted.
The idea of fleets is to work together for a common goal, And taking away a place to do that like the foundry is a loss to the community as a whole.
If they were to add more content at a faster pace to earn fleet marks. it would not matter.
We need more options since you run the same missions over and over again to earn fleet marks. Gets old after a couple of months.
There are some many places cryptic could add fleet marks. If they were to go back and add fleet marks to the older missions that would give fleets a reason to do those and again without creating new content.
Like I said in my previous post I think this will be the end of the Foundry from a fleet point view.
Personally, this won't affect me at all. My fleet actually likes running the fleet alerts, blockades, etc, and I have no problem getting marks from the cxp report turn-ins. Plus, I've been burned too many times with craptastic foundry missions that I don't even bother w/ the spotlight missions or (former) officer report daily.
That being said, I understand the small fleeter's concern their main, consistent source of fm's is being eliminated. If these rewards were removed in one place, they need to be added elsewhere. Otherwise, it looks like Cryptic is manipulating its customers, and that's something I have a real problem with.
I am not sure of the purpose of removing fleet marks from the foundry, but i do believe its short sighted.
The idea of fleets is to work together for a common goal, And taking away a place to do that like the foundry is a loss to the community as a whole.
If they were to add more content at a faster pace to earn fleet marks. it would not matter.
We need more options since you run the same missions over and over again to earn fleet marks. Gets old after a couple of months.
There are some many places cryptic could add fleet marks. If they were to go back and add fleet marks to the older missions that would give fleets a reason to do those and again without creating new content.
Like I said in my previous post I think this will be the end of the Foundry from a fleet point view.
But no one, absolutely no one was being harmed in anyway when FM were a Foundry reward. It was live and let live.
The only answer I can give to this is to repeat my personal belief that Cryptic felt that we were earning Fleet Marks faster than they wanted/expected us to, and not in the ways that they wanted/expected us to. They have the power ("right" doesn't matter, "right" is irrelevant) to change this, to enforce it, and they have now done so. Until they change things again, all we can do is play the game their way... or leave.
IMO, some people are looking for a scapegoat, someone they can actually reach and blame, because (consciously or not) they realize they have no real power or influence over Cryptic or PWE. They can complain, or leave... and that's all. And if they do leave, no one will care, because there are so many others.
It's a very sad thing to realize you're powerless, so most people will do anything to pretend otherwise as long as they can.
I only have a limited amount of time to spend on this game. I chose to do foundry missions as they ofered Fleet marks. I ended up finding out that I like doing other people's missions, too.
Now that Fleet Marks have been removed I feel that I don't like other peoples' missions enough to do them at the detriment of me getting fleet marks using another method.
As such, I won't be playing foundry missions any more. To all of the great foundry mission authors, I salute your hard work and will miss your offerings. You have Cryptic to blame for my cessation of patronage.
Now I find myself forced to do those fleet missions that I really don'y like. Quite frankly, compared to the Borg missions, they suck. And blow. At the same time.
The idea behind having a fleet and starbase is you are supposed to grow your fleet big enough so you can also do stuff like this and not have to rely on the public queues.
Not everyone wants to be in a big fleet. I want to know everyone in my fleet on a first name basis, know their ships by name and build, and have fleet chat small enough for everyone to participate if they wanted to. I've quit several fleets that got too busy and crowded or ended up with an officer core who decided they knew best for everyone. While, I acknowledge that it limits me to likely never seeing certain things in this game, I would like to be able to at least make slow steady progress to more attainable goals. That just got harder.
I am not sure of the purpose of removing fleet marks from the foundry, but i do believe its short sighted.
The idea of fleets is to work together for a common goal, And taking away a place to do that like the foundry is a loss to the community as a whole.
If they were to add more content at a faster pace to earn fleet marks. it would not matter.
We need more options since you run the same missions over and over again to earn fleet marks. Gets old after a couple of months.
There are some many places cryptic could add fleet marks. If they were to go back and add fleet marks to the older missions that would give fleets a reason to do those and again without creating new content.
Like I said in my previous post I think this will be the end of the Foundry from a fleet point view.
Agreed. Earning fleet marks that way would be excellent and enjoyable. Especially with my Admiral ship, which is my RP ship.
The only answer I can give to this is to repeat my personal belief that Cryptic felt that we were earning Fleet Marks faster than they wanted/expected us to, and not in the ways that they wanted/expected us to. They have the power ("right" doesn't matter, "right" is irrelevant) to change this, to enforce it, and they have now done so. Until they change things again, all we can do is play the game their way... or leave.
As a member of an effectively small fleet, I understand this logic, but my fleet had only made significant progress after this last change went into effect, being able to get the Starbase to tier 1 and complete a holding project AFTER season 7, when we started at the beginning of Season 6. In fact much of the fleet we started Season 6 with doesn't play anymore. Cryptic initially said that fleets were supposed to take seven months of grinding to complete the starbase, I just opened my Transwarp conduit on Tuesday. I also received my tractor beam and photon torpedoes.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
It's already been stated more eloquently, but if people think that by taking away the means by which people were grinding for necessary fleet starbase resources will encourage them to spend the same time they were grinding on a relatively reward-less endeavor (i.e., the story-driven foundry missions), they're a few drones short of a Collective.
I only have a limited amount of time to spend on this game. I chose to do foundry missions as they ofered Fleet marks. I ended up finding out that I like doing other people's missions, too.
Now that Fleet Marks have been removed I feel that I don't like other peoples' missions enough to do them at the detriment of me getting fleet marks using another method.
As such, I won't be playing foundry missions any more. To all of the great foundry mission authors, I salute your hard work and will miss your offerings. You have Cryptic to blame for my cessation of patronage.
Now I find myself forced to do those fleet missions that I really don'y like. Quite frankly, compared to the Borg missions, they suck. And blow. At the same time.
This is exactly my point, Since fleets need fleet marks and time is limited. Fleets will have to skip the foundry all together in order to achieve fleets goals. And we are stuck with same old content over and over.
Once every 24 hours, the first spotlight mission completed in that time frame will get a bonus 1440 Dilithium.
Once every 24 hours, the first spotlight mission completed in that time frame will get a scaling amount of Energy Credits, based on the player's level.
Got the dil but not the ec
[System] [NumericReceived] You received 992 Expertise
[System] [NumericReceived] You received 866 Expertise
[System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,440 Dilithium Ore
I am part of a small fleet. 4 of us just finished Tier 2. We felt pretty good about that, considering all the steep requirements. We worked together, and got it done. Now however, with the new changes, we are thinking about taking a break.
Sometimes I wonder if the Dev's even play STO. They seem to want to make grinding harder with every other patch. It's getting to the point why even play STO... I already have a job.
BS.... more like the devs finally came up with a plan to kill grinders once and for all.
Seriously... it's not the Authors who decided that Foundry should be used to tell stories. Cryptic did. We just do things the way Cryptic set it up.
I personally think since the foundry is such a problem, all rewards should be removed from it entirely, No DIL no EC no XP nothing. that way it can't be grinded, exploited or anything. It can go away as it should since its clearly a major problem for the game.
Would some of you be happy if they put fleet marks back, but set them to scale with dilithium rewards?
The trick might be if the scaling rewards length.
Ex:
15 min mission = 10 FM
30 min mission = 30 FM
45 min mission = 65 FM
60 min mission = 100 FM
This would grant FMs, but at the same time encourage the play of longer stories, since repeating a boff grinders would earn less than sitting down and playing a story mission. Or it would encourage some authors to make long and epic grinds, instead of ones where you lay behind a fence and shootz stuffz.
Apparently my view isn't supported so I'll say it another way: I don't agree with the way you suggest FM should be awarded as it favors playing longer than average missions that few have the talent for writing.
Up until now I've gotten behind the development effort of STO, and generally only have positive feedback, but the 14/02 update is a very poor one indeed.
This is because STO at level 50 is one of the grindiest MMORPG's around. I know the game is expanding, and I know more content is being created, but once you hit level 50 there is very little motivation to complete storyline missions.
The action is in Omega / Romulan grinding, or anything to get fleet marks.
The whole point of the foundry was to allow players to create new content, which gives more options to earning EC, Dilithium and Fleet marks. Prior to today, this was actually working.
It was the one thing going for foundry. Who ever thought it was a good idea to remove fleet mark incentives from foundry game play should be fired - I repeat - fired.
I would maybe understand if there was enough content out there to earn fleet marks, but the reality is there are a few STF's and most of us have done these 100's and 1000's of times over.
I would also understand why the fleet mark reward was removed, if in the update more ways to earn fleet marks was included, new maps, etc. This wasn't provided.
All I can say is I'm really glad I didn't buy a lifetime membership, because I can see this update was really amateur, and it has really made me question the competency of the game design department and the direction they're taking.
I am part of a small fleet. 4 of us just finished Tier 2. We felt pretty good about that, considering all the steep requirements. We worked together, and got it done. Now however, with the new changes, we are thinking about taking a break.
Sometimes I wonder if the Dev's even play STO. They seem to want to make grinding harder with every other patch. It's getting to the point why even play STO... I already have a job.
Well said we are here to have fun, And its becoming like work to earn anything in the game. The idea is team play and building toward a goal. Please do not turn this into a job.
I love the game for what it is, and the community it builds, but we need less road blocks and more fun please.
I have put hundreds of dollars into the game in name of fleet building. Since the changes to the dilth system making that harder to get. That does not count being a life time subscriber as a regular subscriber for years prior.
If cryptic continues on its current course of making frustrated players.
The investment I have made in the game is for not.
Please don't kill the game with poor choices that leave players feeling like they had a bad day at the drive-thru windows.
Well I guess I'm done with the foundry. It was my primary source of fleet marks, same with my fleetmates.
It's just beyond sad that a certain element with a complex had to go ruin things for everyone else. I'm done with the story missions too as the only thing I can do now is grind out fleet events for marks.
This wouldn't be nearly as horrible if fleet marks were left attached as a reward, or even an option for reward.
I feel the exact same way. I'm wondering if it is time to find another game.
I don't really understand the WHY Cryptic removed the FM reward. I mean look at it from the broader perspective. As fleets progress the requirements needed to advance grow larger and larger, that much is certain. So the need for Fleet Marks is ever daunting and never ending. So the need for repeatable missions that reward fleet marks was happily received.
Upon that happening people commenced to develop grinder missions that created a loop hole, that allowed players to farm these missions within the ALLOWED time limit set forth by Cryptic itself. Standard missions even grinding missions will take time to finish, and in the nature of every game players will always find ways to finish these missions faster, be it by using specific gear, abilities or tactics. So it has always been pretty obvious that these missions are designed so they can be finished as quickly as possible. You cannot possibly expect players to spend 45min to over an hour on a single mission just so he can collect a bare minimum reward just so he needs to do it again again and again.
Maybe your not really understanding that a player that does a grinding mission in the foundry can take what, 10 min to 20 min depending on gear, boff abilities, ship etc. But an STF can be done in as little as 6 minutes and usually never goes over the 15 minute marks because of the time requirement for the optional, granted you doing it with 4 other players, but that is irrelevant. A 15 minute mission is still a 15 minute missions be it STF, Fleet Action or RED ALERT. Anything over 15 minutes let alone an hour to complete is pretty much content that players are not willing to do on a repetitive basis.
To all the foundry mission developers out there and the creators of spotlight missions, Kudos to you for creating content players can learn to love, and enjoy. But get serious if you make a story driven mission, that contains multiple parts. Did u really expect people to do your missions continuously? Does Cryptic think that people are going to 1-2 hr long missions every day, multiple times a day so that they can get a 50 FM reward? Get serious, we put up with long missions while we level cause we want to experience all the game has to offer, but at max level, when most players already have multiple characters, when the need for grinding missions is at an all time NECESSITY. Of course people are going to do those missions over anything that takes too long. People work for a living, they have families, responsibilities, hell even other games to play. There is only so much time in the day to play STO and do missions, and for damn sure no one wants to spend an hours doing a single mission to get a specific reward.
Compare STF's (ELITE), Fleet Actions, and Red Alerts. STF's, take 15-20 min to finish. and the reward for doing them is extremely well received, 100 Omega marks more or less nice quantity of DIL(900+) and the chance for a MK 12 VR item, plus BNP's. Red alerts give over 400 DIL and take just 10 min to finish, even if you had a group of lowbies and you were the only one doing large amounts of dps, you could still finish the event in time <20 min. So I really don't see what the issue is with grinding missions, simply because people designed some of them so that you had to put little to no effort in doing them. If you are so against this, why have you not penalized afk'ers in STF and other events, why implement Auto Fire for ships, why continuously keep increasing the need and prices on items for Refined Dilithium, but limit the quantity we can refine per day to a number created and assigned back when the system first started and the need was much lower. This list can go on and on sorry.
Back to this PSA lol, Any foundry developer or Cryptic member that thinks that at any point in time Spotlight mission were going to be more popular than short, quick and easy grinding missions your just kidding yourselfs. This game is a giant grinding machine, players are rushing to finish fleet projects, complete reputations, and level the embassy. So we cannot, we will not waste our time doing missions that give us crappy rewards and take much of the time we need to grind for the resources we need. You cant argue that because you spent hours making a foundry your upset cause another person pieced together a grinding missions in a fraction of the time. You cant complain that your mission isn't on the top of the list cause of all the stupid grinding missions. LOOK AT YOUR RATING, that's what tells you if your mission is good or not, missions listed at the top aren't the best ones they are the most frequented ones, period. Player created content is rated by players and it should be pretty damn clear what players want and need, and that's BAM grinding missions, because everyone knows STO atm is a grinding game plain and simple.
I still don't understand why cryptic is so afraid of people burning through reputation and fleet projects too quickly, are they afraid we are going to leave the game once we finish everything??? are they afraid people will realize their is nothing to do in STO. Guess what we already know and we have been with you for 3 years now and stuck with you when there was no content, when there was no grind, when there was little to nothing to do in end game and we are still here. Thankfully you realized some of the bad decisions you made when season 7 came out, and you saw the wisdom from the player base so you took action and modified your choices. Listen to us now again, what you just did is bad, bad for the economy of STO, bad for the players, bad for gameplay.
You want a normal solution for this, fine here it is. Put back the IOR repeatable quest just like it was before, you already hot fixed the grinding missions so that its not a AFK grind fest so the problem was solved. Now ADD in these extra dailies you are implementing as a extra way to reward players and foundry developers for their hard work. Doing RP foundry missions should be a choice not a necessity.
This right here is one of the best posts in this thread. I agree wholeheartedly with everything said.
People right now are feeling angry and helpless watching this train wreck in slow motion, and the whole time we're waving at the engineer to stop, and all he does is go faster...
All they did was shift the AFKers from doing solo missions to TRIBBLE players over in the fleet missions. There will be much more AFK sightings in incursion and others now. Far fewer people will even bother looking at the foundry. They shouldn't even be wasting time with the spotlight stuff... It won't be worth playing.
Up until now I've gotten behind the development effort of STO, and generally only have positive feedback, but the 14/02 update is a very poor one indeed.
This is because STO at level 50 is one of the grindiest MMORPG's around. I know the game is expanding, and I know more content is being created, but once you hit level 50 there is very little motivation to complete storyline missions.
The action is in Omega / Romulan grinding, or anything to get fleet marks.
The whole point of the foundry was to allow players to create new content, which gives more options to earning EC, Dilithium and Fleet marks. Prior to today, this was actually working.
It was the one thing going for foundry. Who ever thought it was a good idea to remove fleet mark incentives from foundry game play should be fired - I repeat - fired.
I would maybe understand if there was enough content out there to earn fleet marks, but the reality is there are a few STF's and most of us have done these 100's and 1000's of times over.
I would also understand why the fleet mark reward was removed, if in the update more ways to earn fleet marks was included, new maps, etc. This wasn't provided.
All I can say is I'm really glad I didn't buy a lifetime membership, because I can see this update was really amateur, and it has really made me question the competency of the game design department and the direction they're taking.
Any official response would be appreciated.
Good luck with that official response....even the foundry has been screwed up so many times...just be glad you didn't get that LTS:D
My KDF fleet Beautiful Orions will do just fine without this because we actually run the Fleet mark events together as a fleet. We do the 20 man starbase defense flawlessly and thats around 100 marks per person for 20 people each time and we can get groups for this together several times a day if needed.
The idea behind having a fleet and starbase is you are supposed to grow your fleet big enough so you can also do stuff like this and not have to rely on the public queues.
So you going to tell me why i want a fleet and starbase because you think thats the way must be ??
I will do what i want , thank you.
Comments
Congratulations on your success.
I've seen you guys around, impressive squad. In fact I dare say you can always see a Beautiful Orion somewhere in a zone.
But there are people who don't play well with others. I'm primarily a solo player. I've also contributed more to my fleet than anyone else save the founder. Why should we who don't want to "play together" be punished and hamstringed for having a different play style? especially if we're willing to put in the work? There should be a balance. The IOR Fleet Marks was a good balance. Narrow, but effective.
In addition, if I go into a fleet alert, I usually suffer lag. And that hampers my performance and hurts the team. So I don't like to and it isn't fun.
The idea of fleets is to work together for a common goal, And taking away a place to do that like the foundry is a loss to the community as a whole.
If they were to add more content at a faster pace to earn fleet marks. it would not matter.
We need more options since you run the same missions over and over again to earn fleet marks. Gets old after a couple of months.
There are some many places cryptic could add fleet marks. If they were to go back and add fleet marks to the older missions that would give fleets a reason to do those and again without creating new content.
Like I said in my previous post I think this will be the end of the Foundry from a fleet point view.
I started playing foundry missions only recently as a FLEET activity, scheduled once a week.
We were quite happy to make our fleet marks that way.
Thanks for removing my last incentive to play regularly, I'm done grinding until new content arrives.
fourteen@fuldry.
THIS x 100.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
The only answer I can give to this is to repeat my personal belief that Cryptic felt that we were earning Fleet Marks faster than they wanted/expected us to, and not in the ways that they wanted/expected us to. They have the power ("right" doesn't matter, "right" is irrelevant) to change this, to enforce it, and they have now done so. Until they change things again, all we can do is play the game their way... or leave.
IMO, some people are looking for a scapegoat, someone they can actually reach and blame, because (consciously or not) they realize they have no real power or influence over Cryptic or PWE. They can complain, or leave... and that's all. And if they do leave, no one will care, because there are so many others.
It's a very sad thing to realize you're powerless, so most people will do anything to pretend otherwise as long as they can.
Now that Fleet Marks have been removed I feel that I don't like other peoples' missions enough to do them at the detriment of me getting fleet marks using another method.
As such, I won't be playing foundry missions any more. To all of the great foundry mission authors, I salute your hard work and will miss your offerings. You have Cryptic to blame for my cessation of patronage.
Now I find myself forced to do those fleet missions that I really don'y like. Quite frankly, compared to the Borg missions, they suck. And blow. At the same time.
Not everyone wants to be in a big fleet. I want to know everyone in my fleet on a first name basis, know their ships by name and build, and have fleet chat small enough for everyone to participate if they wanted to. I've quit several fleets that got too busy and crowded or ended up with an officer core who decided they knew best for everyone. While, I acknowledge that it limits me to likely never seeing certain things in this game, I would like to be able to at least make slow steady progress to more attainable goals. That just got harder.
As a member of an effectively small fleet, I understand this logic, but my fleet had only made significant progress after this last change went into effect, being able to get the Starbase to tier 1 and complete a holding project AFTER season 7, when we started at the beginning of Season 6. In fact much of the fleet we started Season 6 with doesn't play anymore. Cryptic initially said that fleets were supposed to take seven months of grinding to complete the starbase, I just opened my Transwarp conduit on Tuesday. I also received my tractor beam and photon torpedoes.
This is exactly my point, Since fleets need fleet marks and time is limited. Fleets will have to skip the foundry all together in order to achieve fleets goals. And we are stuck with same old content over and over.
Once every 24 hours, the first spotlight mission completed in that time frame will get a scaling amount of Energy Credits, based on the player's level.
Got the dil but not the ec
[System] [NumericReceived] You received 992 Expertise
[System] [NumericReceived] You received 866 Expertise
[System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,440 Dilithium Ore
Sometimes I wonder if the Dev's even play STO. They seem to want to make grinding harder with every other patch. It's getting to the point why even play STO... I already have a job.
I personally think since the foundry is such a problem, all rewards should be removed from it entirely, No DIL no EC no XP nothing. that way it can't be grinded, exploited or anything. It can go away as it should since its clearly a major problem for the game.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
I had more to write but... it's not going to be heard anyway, so I'm only wasting my own time.
But it needs to be said, because it does deserve better.
I will miss the zone chat. Often awful, usually stupid, but always fun in one way or another.
Such a shame the same cannot be said for the game.
.... you're choice is to report it up the chain.
The trick might be if the scaling rewards length.
Ex:
15 min mission = 10 FM
30 min mission = 30 FM
45 min mission = 65 FM
60 min mission = 100 FM
This would grant FMs, but at the same time encourage the play of longer stories, since repeating a boff grinders would earn less than sitting down and playing a story mission. Or it would encourage some authors to make long and epic grinds, instead of ones where you lay behind a fence and shootz stuffz.
Apparently my view isn't supported so I'll say it another way: I don't agree with the way you suggest FM should be awarded as it favors playing longer than average missions that few have the talent for writing.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
This is because STO at level 50 is one of the grindiest MMORPG's around. I know the game is expanding, and I know more content is being created, but once you hit level 50 there is very little motivation to complete storyline missions.
The action is in Omega / Romulan grinding, or anything to get fleet marks.
The whole point of the foundry was to allow players to create new content, which gives more options to earning EC, Dilithium and Fleet marks. Prior to today, this was actually working.
It was the one thing going for foundry. Who ever thought it was a good idea to remove fleet mark incentives from foundry game play should be fired - I repeat - fired.
I would maybe understand if there was enough content out there to earn fleet marks, but the reality is there are a few STF's and most of us have done these 100's and 1000's of times over.
I would also understand why the fleet mark reward was removed, if in the update more ways to earn fleet marks was included, new maps, etc. This wasn't provided.
All I can say is I'm really glad I didn't buy a lifetime membership, because I can see this update was really amateur, and it has really made me question the competency of the game design department and the direction they're taking.
Any official response would be appreciated.
Well said we are here to have fun, And its becoming like work to earn anything in the game. The idea is team play and building toward a goal. Please do not turn this into a job.
I love the game for what it is, and the community it builds, but we need less road blocks and more fun please.
I have put hundreds of dollars into the game in name of fleet building. Since the changes to the dilth system making that harder to get. That does not count being a life time subscriber as a regular subscriber for years prior.
If cryptic continues on its current course of making frustrated players.
The investment I have made in the game is for not.
Please don't kill the game with poor choices that leave players feeling like they had a bad day at the drive-thru windows.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I feel the exact same way. I'm wondering if it is time to find another game.
This right here is one of the best posts in this thread. I agree wholeheartedly with everything said.
People right now are feeling angry and helpless watching this train wreck in slow motion, and the whole time we're waving at the engineer to stop, and all he does is go faster...
Good luck with that official response....even the foundry has been screwed up so many times...just be glad you didn't get that LTS:D
So you going to tell me why i want a fleet and starbase because you think thats the way must be ??
I will do what i want , thank you.