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"Mercenary" PVP Mode (No Premades)?
picardtheiii
Member Posts: 151 Arc User
I'm curious if this is something that is being considered as a way to breathe a little life back into PVP.
To clarify, I'm talking about a game mode players can join for PVP where there are no groups. Regular game mode as it exists now would still exist of course where groups could join or individuals.
I understand that there are already very few players joining PVP, and creating a second arena seems at first to be counterproductive. I believe there may be many players such as myself who would join up if they knew it would be random teams. For casual PVPers, it just isn't fun to get rolled by premades. Premades of any actual quality or skill don't enjoy rolling pugs either.
In STO, premades are even more powerful than many games. Even a pug of skillful players are at a severe disadvantage against a premade because they haven't coordinated their equipment/skill load out and have pre-formulated strategies.
When players try PVP for the first time a few times and get destroyed by Premades they may just give up and throw in the towel. If they had a "Mercenary" mode where they could learn, and generally win about as many matches as they lost, it could really bring more players into the PVP fold to, who knows, maybe create premades of their own one day with the people they meet in the pug matches and contribute to the high level PVP.
Thanks.
To clarify, I'm talking about a game mode players can join for PVP where there are no groups. Regular game mode as it exists now would still exist of course where groups could join or individuals.
I understand that there are already very few players joining PVP, and creating a second arena seems at first to be counterproductive. I believe there may be many players such as myself who would join up if they knew it would be random teams. For casual PVPers, it just isn't fun to get rolled by premades. Premades of any actual quality or skill don't enjoy rolling pugs either.
In STO, premades are even more powerful than many games. Even a pug of skillful players are at a severe disadvantage against a premade because they haven't coordinated their equipment/skill load out and have pre-formulated strategies.
When players try PVP for the first time a few times and get destroyed by Premades they may just give up and throw in the towel. If they had a "Mercenary" mode where they could learn, and generally win about as many matches as they lost, it could really bring more players into the PVP fold to, who knows, maybe create premades of their own one day with the people they meet in the pug matches and contribute to the high level PVP.
Thanks.
Post edited by picardtheiii on
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the problem with this is, who then would play in the premade games?
seriously?
this would also mean friends cant play with each other unles they randomly get qu'd together or have to face premades.
Do you even Science Bro?
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Rank based matchmaking and a PUG only thingy would be great addition to PvP. Honestly a new paint layer in any of the arena maps would be great at this point .
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
It could be done easy by copying the code for arena pvp into another map .Call it Single PVP Arena or something and take out the join team button from this map.
It would be a first step and it can be done by a developer in less than a day work .
If it works ok if not it is possible to add some filters later in a second stage.
(not more than one member of a fleet for example )
*Edit 1
This new map can be smaller than actual maps for example 3-3 but it could start even at 1-1 .
It would be fun i think to play randomly and not against groups.
Another way to implement a "true random" map it would be to put the third option "Join Random" beside the actual two (Join/Join Team) .
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz-
Svarog | Veles | et al.
Yep, you have the same problem with our l33t MWO 8man premades xD Whining that they want they to fight as a team. When they finally have the possiblity back, they are getting their a.s.s.e.s. kicked and are then back to stomping pugs xD
There is just so much truth in there that it hurts. Although I wouldn't say that ALL premades in the que are ALSO in OPVP channel ignoring private challenges. Some certainly are. I would bet though that there exists a well known subset that satisfies that statement.
And please bring back the long ago discarded space pvp map. I'm sure it's in the code. Just bring it back. The sheer novelty of a third option after 3 years will surely get it some attention.
Cheers!
Its literaly the difference in definition between a Pick Up Group and a Premade Team.
The PuG has to deal with not being designed specifically to work as a team while the Premade has the advantage of being designed to work as a Team specifically.
R.I.P
but thats one of the major issues with "premades" in this game.
a lot of the time its just a random group of people from the same fleet.
no team set up or anything. just skilled players.
yet they get called a premade because theyre all from the same fleet?
-_-
Do you even Science Bro?
Baffles me what they get out of beating up on pugs anyway, I've been there and done that and it just does nothing for me. The poor pugs file in one by one and give up any pretense of teamwork, I don't see where the fun comes into it.
Fortunately it's possible to game the queues with a little bit of attentiveness. No escape, cowards!
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
at least to me, it tends to be pretty obvious when your facing a premade vs a pug made. the difference can be staggering. with a premade, theres clear patterns, and always just enough extends and around 2 escorts that do all the damage work.
pug maids just tend to be bum rushes, minimal heals and organization, and with enough raw skill to rarely be challenged. but if challenged, it can become a well oiled machine, somehow dynamically we all pull together what we have and use it to its maximum effect, usually without a word spoken between us. its then when im having the most fun by far. hey, that also describes most random kdf teams too!
Come back to wish everyone a merry holiday.
Still see pugs whining about premades.
:rolleyes:
TRH is still around.
Merc playlist would be fun to mess around in.
TSI aren't not really. Most of the infamous crew left to do GW2. (Myself I left for MWO :P)
TSI is just a pug made group at this point.
TRH is pretty much the only high end fully functioning pvp team left in LOLSTO.
hey now, proteus trolls cap and holds and nova core still loses to pugs every now and then, premades are thriving!
actually recently some of the prime tsi members have been toying around in sto....
O:)
Do you even Science Bro?
Other premades with play with premades. Friends could play against other groups of friends. Solo players could still if they so desired join the regular arena and play with these groups.
I'm only advocating giving players the OPTION for a random team mode. You might be surprised the number of players that would give it a try who aren't joining PVP at all right now. Considering they would in general win about as many matches as they lost they might actually find it enjoyable and stick around. That guy with all the premium gear and slick tactics and great skill... on your team about as often as he is against you (4/9 times since you always have to play with yourself
Seems like a win win for everyone, even the hard core premade PVP community.
Umm, private queues. That's why they exist. Just disable the ability to make a private queue public, thereby circumventing any measures to disable premade teaming.
Yes... since premades (if you can call the joke grade that most pvpers in sto are, real premades) were sooo willing to step up to the plate when the various Big Boy Guilds, started asking for private challenges in the single largest pvp channel in sto. :rolleyes:
Also? Really? You people are still whining about premades? All of the Real Talent in terms of dedicated premades with the exception of like one guild have left STO. Suck it up, and beat the scrubs.
Perhaps we need to call them PuGmades?
Still the issue is the same.
5 players, even if a PuG team from same fleet, can excel at PvP due to thier experience and skill at PvP.
I see it all the time in Ker'rat when the KDF team up to kill feds.
Experince is still the best advantage in any PvP setting and I do not see how the game can be "balanced" to compensate for it, or why it should be.
PvP is by its nature dangerous and when PuGing that danger can be higher than if running on a Premade or even a PuGmade team.
Redesigning or adding a STO game aspect that attempts to give the solo player an even ground in PvP by absolving Premades will not work and frankly, imo, PvP should be a game that has safety in numbers over "Kirking" or "Changing alone".
Add more Open PvP zones I say.
R.I.P
If the current situation is fine by those reading this, then let's keep this trend going! All we have to do is nothing at all
I sense a robot overheating in a far away land
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Oh the contrary, premades were quite prolific in C&H back when I did play. They were pretty content with racking up their kill counts until the other side left. However, they made no efforts to actually capture anything. They were happy with padding their damage + healing numbers.
POV 1, The PUG - Premades ruin the game. I have the best build, gear and ship, but get roflstomped when I go up against premades. This isn't fun.
POV 2, The Premade - This is a team-oriented game, why aren't there more teams available to play against? PUGstomping is not much fun, but what choice is there when I want to play with my friends and nobody is accepting a premade challenge?
It seems to me the problem could be very easily solved for both groups of players. JOIN A TEAM. It's an MMO, it was designed for team play. That is the entire premise of the genre. If you aren't willing to do this, then you have no right to complain that you are not getting the maximum fulfillment available from STO PvP.
Solo players should expect to be at a disadvantage, it is a foregone conclusion. You shouldn't have any expectations of anything else, because it is not a single-player game.
I used to PUG, it didn't last long. I made friends, formed teams, got better at teamwork and started winning. That's how it's supposed to work. It's very simple, yet flies over the heads of so many.
That is the primary point of contention and the main reason why STO Public PVP is nearly dead.
There are at least two primary STO PVP player camps:
1) Team PVP'ers
2) Individual PVP'ers who don't want to join a team
Regardless of which camp you're in, if Cryptic only caters to one side, the other will eventually move away from STO PVP since this game is not fulfilling their needs. You cannot expect either camp to change sides just to conform to your preferred style.
STO is robust enough to support both play styles and queue types, but since Cryptic has chosen to support team-only PVP, the public PVP queues now sit silently rotting away. There is no steady infusion of new PVP'ers because there is no transition queue to let new STO players taste PVP from a spur-of-the-moment perspective. It's all about who you group with before entering a fight.
Almost 2 years ago, I predicted that STO public PVP will die a slow, painful death if Cryptic doesn't change its team-only focus. Fast forward to the present, and that's exactly what is happening now.
If we want to kill STO public PVP, then all we have to do is keep things as-is. Natural selection will take care of the rest.
They had every p2w in the game and we still won.
No wonder those guys aren't any good, they never learned proper teamwork. They had damage, healers, and sci and they still lost. lulz.
So uhm ... if you need a team, just ask in OPvP. Ever since I started playing with pugmades the game has gotten so much more fun for me. I can actually expect to get heals now.
Cap and Hold is really, really poorly designed. It can last anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour or two, depending on how many players actually know or are willing to pursue the victory condition. There was basically a 50% chance I'd have to beg my teammates to get out of the stupid cloud whenever I used to queue for them.
It's not a very good example to prove anything, despite being one of two space game types.
i dont see the harm in it.might even get some people who left pvp back into it that left because of well known premades (im looking at you pandas with all the love in Gre'Thor)
no it wont remove premades from this que but it will make them more unlikely and make a good place for newer players to try and learn pvp a bit