In most cases, you get spat at in the face for lack of so much of the above and get swore at alot.
by who?
the top pvp's
Admittedly I've only played since Jan, and even then I took a break from around Jun-Aug before returning... but um... really?
I see this as a simple case of pics or shens - cause I call BS.
Even with my completely failtastic builds, whether toons, ships, etc - even with my couldn't navigate my way straight across an empty parking lot maneuvering skills - even with my kludgey mix of keybinds and clicking - including all the fat fingering and misclicking...
...I've never been the "victim" of the verbal assault that you portray here.
Mind you, I've seen folks that whine first - accuse other players of cheating, hacking, exploiting, and making all sorts of excuses for why they lost... getting reamed - and some of that reaming being highly entertaining...
...but generally speaking, if you acknowledge your own limitations - seek ways to improve - go looking for advice instead of looking to offer accusations and make excuses - they've always been the most helpful people in the game.
You see, their fun comes from playing against other players - if there aren't other players, they can't have fun can they? PvE folks on the other hand, well - they're just looking to frag some NPCs as fast as they can. The NPCs will always be there. There will always be somebody else doing PvE since it's a PvE game... so the PvE folks tend to be the complete poopshoots - they don't care.
That doesn't mean there aren't fudgefactories in PvP - but odds are they're just a PvE person pretending to PvP or they're that rare person that's just miserable to be around regardless of where they are or what they're doing...
...besides, in regard to this discussion about the Trics.
Just how does Bort mentioning PDS on NPCs a PvP thing? Hrmmm... sounds like it was a PvE thing they were monitoring... oh, like the vast majority of changes that take place - it's a PvE thing, not a PvP thing.
I run a Sci toon that uses tricobalts, as well as a Tac.
One uses mines with no dispersal pattern. The other uses the basest pattern.
They both use tric torpedoes.
I depend on all of my weapons to play effectively. They are synergistic.
As Bort said, you must sacrifice some abilities to be able to use mines with dispersal patterns, as well as weapon slots for the weapons themselves.
That is a decision. It is ours to make. If you want to use the abilities tric weapons provide, you must also accept the drawbacks.
They are but a part of the game.
Conservatively, I can take a shot from Donatra while extending my shields and using HE on another player. I can do this because I have been destroyed by her many times. I learned to adapt my build into what it is today.
I have been reading about this issue in the Forums for a while. It has been proffered by mostly PVPers that tric's are OP. Some PVEers have weighed in citing balance issues.
I put to you that the balance is already engineered in the benefits and drawbacks inherent in the build.
The PVPers I know are some of the most capable and cunning players I have known in the game. They exemplify some of the best skilled play in STO. The absolute best have shown themselves to be able to rise to whatever challenges they find in the PVP arena. These people are capable of taking the weakest of ships and defeating the most powerful of opponents. It is a testament to their skill.
I applaud the Devs for listening to the arguments presented in the Forums. It is good to know that they are paying attention. However, I do not think tric weaponry need to be depowered. They are but a unique flavor, a bright colored strand in the tapestry of the game. I fear to "nerf" them would begin to pave the way to homogenizing game play.
If tricobalts are the habanero in the stew of weapon features and makes it too hot to enjoy, I suggest adding some sugar to one's own build architecture to adjust the taste. Elsewise, we run the risk of eventually sitting down to the same bland entree' night after night.
Thank you for reading my post. I hope it serves to make this wonderful game better.
Regardless, I will find a way to adapt to whatever changes may come.
In most cases, you get spat at in the face for lack of so much of the above and get swore at alot.
by who?
the top pvp's
Bull****. The best PvPers are generally very helpful. Hell, look at my siglinks, it's a labor of love from some of those guys. And they do it because they want people to get better at the game. The more people get better the more likely a queue pops. No one wins if more blood isn't added to the population.
That's another reason to hate these TRIBBLE mines. They drive away people from the queues! Nothing should do that kind of horsecrap irresistible damage!
You need an Intrepid with Ablative and other hull resists to even withstand one fully buffed Tric mine hit! And the first hit knocks you out of the armor anyway, lol. So you die to the next hits anyhow.
Cannon escort fire can be handled with a good shield, EPTS, Tac Team, and/or TSS!
And as for Escorts being OP:
They do a lot of damage. But a good team can heal away most of the spike. And eventually APA and their other Tac buffs are on cooldown. Even good Escorts need Sci to break down defenses. And they have to be kept up by other healers too!
Use OrganizedPvP to make a pugmade. That way you can be sure to get heals! I was just in a pugmade earlier this morning and I never had anything to fear from bugships, etc, because I had teammates that would help me out when I needed it the most! It's a team game above all.
The only thing that really scares me about this is the PDS idea... it's like building a portable bug zapper suit because you don't like mosquito bites. Sure, that'll keep you from getting bit, but there are other repercussions that are being ignored. How would it affect your social life? What if it rains? Etc etc etc. Putting a catch-all blanket on difficult NPCs to deal with one specific issue is simply moronic.
Now, I admit that I don't use Tricobs, and that I'm also one of those "carebears" that can't post twice in this subforum without being covered with vitriol spew. That aside, the idea of having all mines, targetable projectiles AND pets being nerfstomped due to the emergence of an ultrabuild that utilizes only ONE weapon type and only ONE delivery method is beyond my comprehension. Borticus's comment that it "may not be a good idea" is one hell of an understatement.
Consider: in war, weapons are developed that give one side a distinct advantage. How does the other side respond? By developing appropriate countermeasures (or being soundly defeated, but that's not the point here). Wouldn't it make sense to address this overpowered weapon issue by providing more effective means to counter said weapon? Borticus suggested one such measure: decreasing the stealth on the mines. It's not an overhaul of anything, but it does aid both NPCs and players with countering the weapon.
Decreasing the overall damage and damage variance, while certainly a knee-jerk reaction, are not terrible ideas; they simply miss the point. Make it a real arms race. Increase the targets on CRF/FAW. Make mines EXTREMELY susceptible to Sci powers. Make carrier pets target mines with very high priority. I'm just throwing ideas out there; granted, they may not be the best ideas (or even good ideas at all), but anything beats a half-assed blanket fix like the asinine PDS idea.
I'm also one of those "carebears" that can't post twice in this subforum without being covered with vitriol spew.
The only people that get covered with vitriol spew in this subforum are those that come spewing vitriol...
IN GENERAL...
...I've long wondered (in many games, mind you) - what delusions some people operate under in regard to certain aspects of the game. It's like they heard somebody say that the Sun is pea green. They could spend all day out in the sun, for days on end - for weeks on end - for months, for years... seeing the sun each and every day - and they'd think it was pea green.
edit: I added the SandyBrown in general just to make it clear that wasn't directed at omega specifically. I think there might be a little bit of aggro in this thread that's coming across to folks when it's not meant to be there - possibly even a case of aggro here and there being carried over to other posts - general frustration coming across and leading to things possibly being read wrong.
the pvp community has some helpful people in it BUT the majority are the ones that drove their own fun out the door by their arrogance and rudeness.
your statement of it being a pver pretending to be a pvper that is just a blatant remark of one of the primary offenders to through blame elsewhere.
also as for the person quoting me.
i am aware of exactly why they where not usable with the skills i played in season 2 the golden era for this game.(current pvpers call it a dark age)
a lot more was in balance minus one or two skills.we didn't have all the P2W and escorts where not the be all win all they are now.
in closing yes nerf the damage on the trics do to the skill the scaling damage to help them cover more area but with relatively no benefit to damage.but by NO means implement the PDS.it will hurt the game more then losing a few pvpers.
your statement of it being a pver pretending to be a pvper that is just a blatant remark of one of the primary offenders to through blame elsewhere.
No, it's pretty much the most offensive guy out there.
It's the guy that's going use every potential exploit/not working as intended thing in PvE possible to feel good about himself in PvE. He's going to brag about it, minus mentioning any of the nWAI stuff. He's going to put down his fellow PvE folks - he thrives in thinking that the min requirements to accomplish some task on the PvE side are X...when X would be massive overkill even for the hardest content available. They then decide that they should PvP - where they bring that same mentality. They're not actually there to PvP - they completely expect players on the other side to drop like NPCs - and they're going to treat their fellow players in PvP no better than they did in PvE. He'll use every exploit/nWAI available - he makes his sandwiches by putting a piece of bread between two pieces of cheese. Then he brags about his skills.
C'mon, surely you've met that guy... he's the PvE guy pretending to PvP.
but by NO means implement the PDS.it will hurt the game more then losing a few pvpers.
The PDS thing...has nothing to do with PvP.
So obviously they've seen an issue in PvE.
I'm not sure anybody likes the PDS idea... but it's obviously a PvE thing and would have only come about if they've seen something in PvE...
...so it obviously had nothing to do with PvP.
Kind of like most of the fixes... they have nothing to do with PvP.
Do you think TBR would have been fixed for PvP?
No, it got fixed because people were stupid and system spamming the NWS stuff... PvE.
The T4 Omega shield passive? Tada... again PvE.
To be honest, I think the only reason that this got posted in the PvP sections was to make the PvPers think that Cryptic's paying attention to them - but when it ignores everything the PvP folks have talked about and instead mentions the PDS thing... once again, it's obvious that it's only being addressed because it's a PvE problem.
The only people that get covered with vitriol spew in this subforum are those that come spewing vitriol...
You may be right, considering the only reasons I can think of for carebears to be in this subforum are to 1) instigate; or 2) weigh in on threads describing changes that would affect all gameplay modes but are inexplicably posted in the PvP subforum. Obviously, I would be in the latter party.
Conversely, I'm not sure where you're going with the sun thing or how it applies to me. What I know about Tricobs is what I gained using them for a short period of time with no specialization whatsoever and what I've read/watched from this thread. I'm not one to take anything anyone says as gospel, but if my knowledge of something is limited then it's only logical to default to information provided by others with more experience.
Regardless of any of that, this thread definitely has me at Red Alert since I was looking at buying that Hyper Plasma Torp... gonna have to put that off for a bit now, since its future will be mighty bleak if that PDS garbage is implemented.
you mean like all the big pvp communities and subnuke doffs premades and others that you yourself are probably guilty of just as well as everyone else.
and also your reading comprehension is terrible that or you are not catching my drift the pvper cummunty is suggesting PDS to give pvers a hard time.it doesn't go through and a few of those less than useful players might rage quite you put the PDS through and you will lose a lot of pvers not just a few.
it will hurt the bottom line of PWE.
i don't pvp much these days not because i won't win but rather i do not wana deal with arrogant people like you.
you mean like all the big pvp communities and subnuke doffs premades and others that you yourself are probably guilty of just as well as everyone else.
and also your reading comprehension is terrible that or you are not catching my drift the pvper cummunty is suggesting PDS to give pvers a hard time.it doesn't go through and a few of those less than useful players might rage quite you put the PDS through and you will lose a lot of pvers not just a few.
it will hurt the bottom line of PWE.
i don't pvp much these days not because i won't win but rather i do not wana deal with arrogant people like you.
Who said PvPers want the PDS on NPC's?
We don't care, that's NPC's.
Personally, I think it's a mistake.
All they need to do is fix the 1crit, they all Crit. Or, decouple the dispersal patterns from tric mines (if they do that, they should not decrease the damage or MES values)
You may be right, considering the only reasons I can think of for carebears to be in this subforum are to 1) instigate; or 2) weigh in on threads describing changes that would affect all gameplay modes but are inexplicably posted in the PvP subforum. Obviously, I would be in the latter party.
You bring up a good point there, which invalidates what I said to an extent. There's definitely that chance for the vitriol to spill over to folks that were not intent upon spewing it in the first place.
Thomas comes to the PvP forums - spewing vitriol. Richard from the PvP forums, returns the favor in kind. Harold comes to the PvP forums, having followed the Dev Stalker or just seeing the thread and posts his thoughts. Richard, still fuming after what Thomas said - lashes out at Harold as well.
Yep, I've seen that. I've tried to point it out when I see it. Thomas deserves it - Harold doesn't.
Conversely, I'm not sure where you're going with the sun thing or how it applies to me. What I know about Tricobs is what I gained using them for a short period of time with no specialization whatsoever and what I've read/watched from this thread. I'm not one to take anything anyone says as gospel, but if my knowledge of something is limited then it's only logical to default to information provided by others with more experience.
I had tried to break that down into a separate paragraph, because it was no longer applying to you - it was more a general statement about what people think of the PvP forums, folks that PvP, etc, etc, etc. There are quite a few things said about both that are mind boggling. So it's one of those things that they've heard somebody say it and it's become the truth for them, regardless of what the truth may be. That wasn't directed at you specifically, and I should have done a better job at making it clear that was a general statement (I'll go back and add a disclaimer to it so that's clear).
Regardless of any of that, this thread definitely has me at Red Alert since I was looking at buying that Hyper Plasma Torp... gonna have to put that off for a bit now, since its future will be mighty bleak if that PDS garbage is implemented.
Yeah, I'm not sure I've seen anybody in favor of the PDS thing.
They Hyper, any THY targetable, pets, all the other mines, etc, etc, etc, etc - everything that has nothing to do with Tric Mines - would be affected - so many things.
It's bad enough how often some of the things out there can FAWspam - but add in a PDS? That's just insane...
All they need to do is fix the 1crit, they all Crit. Or, decouple the dispersal patterns from tric mines (if they do that, they should not decrease the damage or MES values)
Pretty sure that every single Tric Mine thread I've seen here has come down to those two things: DPB + Crit Chains.
All the other stuff surrounding them, has been cleared away as mesmerizing fluff detracting from the issue of the DPB + Crit Chains.
It's been the constant feedback...that's been constantly ignored.
and also your reading comprehension is terrible that or you are not catching my drift the pvper cummunty is suggesting PDS to give pvers a hard time.
Wow, really? You're suggesting that the PvP community wants Cryptic to spend time implementing PDS to give PvE folks a more difficult time... nope, nothing to do with reading comprehension there in the least. That's one of those things that I would have never thought anybody would be stupid or insane enough to suggest. Not calling you stupid nor insane, mind you - it's just that I would have never guessed that somebody would be stupid or insane enough to suggest.
How do people that PvP get their gear? Oh, they PvE?
How do people that PvP tend to farm? Oh, they PvE?
Yeah, it's a PvE game where almost everything is centered around PvE...duh.
So wait a second here - it's not really a case that it's PvE vs. PvP at all is it?
No, it's the folks that PvE but do not PvP vs. the folks that PvE and PvP...
So you're suggesting that those folks that PvE (and PvP) suggested (nowhere to be seen) to Cryptic that they spend time (that the PvP folks have been asking to be spent elsewhere) on adding PDS to NPCs so that the PvE folks (that don't PvP) will have a hard time... even though, that would also mean a hard time for the PvE folks (that do PvP) when they PvE?
Wow, really? You're suggesting that the PvP community wants Cryptic to spend time implementing PDS to give PvE folks a more difficult time... nope, nothing to do with reading comprehension there in the least. That's one of those things that I would have never thought anybody would be stupid or insane enough to suggest. Not calling you stupid nor insane, mind you - it's just that I would have never guessed that somebody would be stupid or insane enough to suggest.
How do people that PvP get their gear? Oh, they PvE?
How do people that PvP tend to farm? Oh, they PvE?
Yeah, it's a PvE game where almost everything is centered around PvE...duh.
So wait a second here - it's not really a case that it's PvE vs. PvP at all is it?
No, it's the folks that PvE but do not PvP vs. the folks that PvE and PvP...
So you're suggesting that those folks that PvE (and PvP) suggested (nowhere to be seen) to Cryptic that they spend time (that the PvP folks have been asking to be spent elsewhere) on adding PDS to NPCs so that the PvE folks (that don't PvP) will have a hard time... even though, that would also mean a hard time for the PvE folks (that do PvP) when they PvE?
This behavior does exist, and it a concern that's not being ignored. To be clear, it's existed since Launch, but has been amplified by Tricobalt Mines due to the massive amount of damage they can deal on a crit.
We've requested this to become a high priority for our Software team. But to be honest, there are a vast number of issues that are "high priority" on their list right now. As such, we (the Systems Team) can't guarantee any sort of timeline on a fix.
Between the old "Imbued summons" exploit in Champions Online and the Tricobalt Mine problem here in Star Trek Online, I think you guys need to tackle this immediately. It's a critical flaw in the engine and it needs to be addressed at some point. It's done nothing but cause problems for both of your games and headaches for the designers who had to scramble to pick up the mess. It's no exaggeration that, if you guys fixed this engine flaw, this Tricobalt Mine problem would cease to exist.
well borticus pulled the PDS from somewhere and no self respecting pver would have ill succeed borts just plain mad.
and yes im insane i play sto ;-)
You know, I was thinking about it - there was the suggestion from a few folks to give NPCs everything that players have. One could take that as giving PDS to NPCs... so you know, could entirely blame those PvP folks for that.
All they need to do is fix the 1crit, they all Crit. Or, decouple the dispersal patterns from tric mines (if they do that, they should not decrease the damage or MES values)
Brandonfl, can you say if this opinion is only yours or if it's the pretty much same for all Sad Pandas or/and others PvP_Fleets like some we can see here (TSI, TRH, etc...) ?
I ask that because if the "all crit hits" is removed I wanted to know if I can fit tricomines on my ship without be considered like a person using OP/I-win things in PvP.
Of course I know maybe you don't have the answer to my question, and others readers can give their opinions if they want.
Regards.
P.S. : Sorry if this message seems weird but my English knowledge is poor...
Brandonfl, can you say if this opinion is only yours or if it's the pretty much same for all Sad Pandas or/and others PvP_Fleets like some we can see here (TSI, TRH, etc...) ?
I ask that because if the "all crit hits" is removed I wanted to know if I can fit tricomines on my ship without be considered like a person using OP/I-win things in PvP.
Of course I know maybe you don't have the answer to my question, and others readers can give their opinions if they want.
Regards.
P.S. : Sorry if this message seems weird but my English knowledge is poor...
I'll just quote virusdancer, because what he said is pretty much true.
reduce tricobalt damage by 66% along with its cooldown by 50%, its damage becomes manageable while allowing for a single pattern to work on a single mine.
12k damage per mine on a DPB3 as is now means about 80k kin damage on a crit. despite being chainable on 30 sec with a single tricobalt mine, it still allows a rear slot for other fun stuff, maybe even other mine types for trolling.
NPCs should use csv1, bfaw1 and ts1. they are really bland sometimes and only recently its that those NPCs started to cycle shields. could as well allow them to use polarize hull while timed to the player's skill, so a second after a dderix saw a player use DPB it uses bfaw and polarize hull to take out any possible mines. its what should happen anyway.
also it was not mentioned anywhere. if DPB is nerfed, will DPA be too? its not like deploying with a delay wouldnt be a nerf by itself.
The fact that anybody can just make a tric build, without the slightest bit of strategy or work, then go into an STF and demolish it all is the whole point.
Trics are acting as little more than an...and I REALLY hate saying this, 'I win' button. You can go into STFs, drop trics, and everything dies, pretty much guaranteed.
That's nothing against you, but it honestly doesn't help players in the long run, if all they see is 'trics = winning'. Then they will apply that logic to other PvE stuff in the game, not really truly trying to learn or improve their gameplay at all, which won't bode well if this game ever gets more difficult PvE stuff (besides just Into the Hive and Hive Onslaught), or if they try and PvP.
If 'Joe Average' can make a tric build and head into PvP, thinking he's all that, and suddenly gets wasted by a premade stomping him into the ground, I REALLY doubt he's gonna be happy, but as we see too often on these forums, 'Joe Average' is gonna whine about being toasted and NOT want his trics nerfed.
Again, nothing on you at all. But if anyone can use trics, that means big-time PvPers can use trics as well.
The downside of a tric build in stf's is the cool down. One minuet in an stf is an eternity, if you don't have a decent build, and know how to help your team, then you will truly be useless. That's why I only run a tric build on one of my toons, and not my main. As opposed to essentially taking tric out of the game with this nerf, if they could just break the crit chain, or possibally nerf the dmg they could do to shields, while keeping the hull dmg high, it would allow trics to be a vaiable build for a talented player, while stoping the one shot kills that have made it so popular. As to stf's neutronium armor really helps against tricks, breaking the crit chains should solve most of the issues there.
Sollaf: Join date Sep 2009, Lifer. Disgruntled with the JHSS, my Bug feels less shiny now.
[3:53] [Combat (Self)] Your Mine Explosion deals 208875 (105207) Kinetic Damage to Vegetable0.
[3:53] [Combat (Self)] Your Mine Explosion deals 273555 (137784) Kinetic Damage to Vegetable0.
[3:53] [Combat (Self)] Your Mine Explosion deals 236523 (119132) Kinetic Damage to Vegetable0.
Nope.... NOT AT ALL
Heres some moar
[3:42] [Combat (Self)] Your Mine Explosion deals 96582 (115341) Kinetic Damage to Vegetable0.
[3:42] [Combat (Self)] Your Mine Explosion deals 105068 (125475) Kinetic Damage to Vegetable0.
This is him buffed up.... Ababtive armor at ~93%
[3:35] [Combat (Self)] Your Mine Explosion deals 14657 (175034) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Vegetable0.
[3:35] [Combat (Self)] Your Mine Explosion deals 12233 (146086) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Vegetable0.
[3:35] [Combat (Self)] Your Mine Explosion deals 13808 (164903) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Vegetable0.
[3:35] [Combat (Self)] Your Mine Explosion deals 13130 (156804) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Vegetable0.
Still Died.
I mean u know. This is Obviously not OP, I can instakill u thru 93% Hull Resistance right?/
</sarcasm>
Well If you wanna complain they ARE NOT OP. Go ahead, but these numbers beg to differ. And theres no way u can say that they aren't. Why? Because those are instakills. And when they are used in pvp. It isn't Oh hey 1 guy is using 1, they get shot down. Its 5 guys are using 2 with DPB 3, with pets, so u cant even see them let alone defend urself.
Ablative armor does nothing against tricks, only montanium, and neutronium alloys work.
Sollaf: Join date Sep 2009, Lifer. Disgruntled with the JHSS, my Bug feels less shiny now.
a 10% reduction in damage will change nothing in PVE
Science characted fires Grav well and traps 6 to 8 spheres in it
Mine launcher caption lays the tric mines
all spheres go poof
the boss npcs go poof as well using varations of these tactics
2 science and 3 minlayers are..............God to a stf
sick
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
they just come to rant. but if they actualy read post from pvp'ers they would see we dont want this on npc because it wold hurt pve just abit. and trust me i hope pve gets hit so badly the kirk heroes will make millions of post bashing cryptic. then the pve'ers can get a tast of what we deal with.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
then maybe we can get to a point where we all agree the current trics are not going to work as is but a band aid fix will not work here it must be a well tested and working fix
just droping their damage by 10% wont do anything as has been pointed out
it will have to be A.separated from mine skills B.drop damage of tric mines down but leaving them still hitting harder then quantoms.
Comments
Admittedly I've only played since Jan, and even then I took a break from around Jun-Aug before returning... but um... really?
I see this as a simple case of pics or shens - cause I call BS.
Even with my completely failtastic builds, whether toons, ships, etc - even with my couldn't navigate my way straight across an empty parking lot maneuvering skills - even with my kludgey mix of keybinds and clicking - including all the fat fingering and misclicking...
...I've never been the "victim" of the verbal assault that you portray here.
Mind you, I've seen folks that whine first - accuse other players of cheating, hacking, exploiting, and making all sorts of excuses for why they lost... getting reamed - and some of that reaming being highly entertaining...
...but generally speaking, if you acknowledge your own limitations - seek ways to improve - go looking for advice instead of looking to offer accusations and make excuses - they've always been the most helpful people in the game.
You see, their fun comes from playing against other players - if there aren't other players, they can't have fun can they? PvE folks on the other hand, well - they're just looking to frag some NPCs as fast as they can. The NPCs will always be there. There will always be somebody else doing PvE since it's a PvE game... so the PvE folks tend to be the complete poopshoots - they don't care.
That doesn't mean there aren't fudgefactories in PvP - but odds are they're just a PvE person pretending to PvP or they're that rare person that's just miserable to be around regardless of where they are or what they're doing...
...besides, in regard to this discussion about the Trics.
Just how does Bort mentioning PDS on NPCs a PvP thing? Hrmmm... sounds like it was a PvE thing they were monitoring... oh, like the vast majority of changes that take place - it's a PvE thing, not a PvP thing.
I do have an opinion on this issue.
I run a Sci toon that uses tricobalts, as well as a Tac.
One uses mines with no dispersal pattern. The other uses the basest pattern.
They both use tric torpedoes.
I depend on all of my weapons to play effectively. They are synergistic.
As Bort said, you must sacrifice some abilities to be able to use mines with dispersal patterns, as well as weapon slots for the weapons themselves.
That is a decision. It is ours to make. If you want to use the abilities tric weapons provide, you must also accept the drawbacks.
They are but a part of the game.
Conservatively, I can take a shot from Donatra while extending my shields and using HE on another player. I can do this because I have been destroyed by her many times. I learned to adapt my build into what it is today.
I have been reading about this issue in the Forums for a while. It has been proffered by mostly PVPers that tric's are OP. Some PVEers have weighed in citing balance issues.
I put to you that the balance is already engineered in the benefits and drawbacks inherent in the build.
The PVPers I know are some of the most capable and cunning players I have known in the game. They exemplify some of the best skilled play in STO. The absolute best have shown themselves to be able to rise to whatever challenges they find in the PVP arena. These people are capable of taking the weakest of ships and defeating the most powerful of opponents. It is a testament to their skill.
I applaud the Devs for listening to the arguments presented in the Forums. It is good to know that they are paying attention. However, I do not think tric weaponry need to be depowered. They are but a unique flavor, a bright colored strand in the tapestry of the game. I fear to "nerf" them would begin to pave the way to homogenizing game play.
If tricobalts are the habanero in the stew of weapon features and makes it too hot to enjoy, I suggest adding some sugar to one's own build architecture to adjust the taste. Elsewise, we run the risk of eventually sitting down to the same bland entree' night after night.
Thank you for reading my post. I hope it serves to make this wonderful game better.
Regardless, I will find a way to adapt to whatever changes may come.
God be with you all.
Polonious1
Bull****. The best PvPers are generally very helpful. Hell, look at my siglinks, it's a labor of love from some of those guys. And they do it because they want people to get better at the game. The more people get better the more likely a queue pops. No one wins if more blood isn't added to the population.
That's another reason to hate these TRIBBLE mines. They drive away people from the queues! Nothing should do that kind of horsecrap irresistible damage!
Look at TRIBBLE:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=7228721&postcount=119
You need an Intrepid with Ablative and other hull resists to even withstand one fully buffed Tric mine hit! And the first hit knocks you out of the armor anyway, lol. So you die to the next hits anyhow.
Cannon escort fire can be handled with a good shield, EPTS, Tac Team, and/or TSS!
And as for Escorts being OP:
They do a lot of damage. But a good team can heal away most of the spike. And eventually APA and their other Tac buffs are on cooldown. Even good Escorts need Sci to break down defenses. And they have to be kept up by other healers too!
Use OrganizedPvP to make a pugmade. That way you can be sure to get heals! I was just in a pugmade earlier this morning and I never had anything to fear from bugships, etc, because I had teammates that would help me out when I needed it the most! It's a team game above all.
Now, I admit that I don't use Tricobs, and that I'm also one of those "carebears" that can't post twice in this subforum without being covered with vitriol spew. That aside, the idea of having all mines, targetable projectiles AND pets being nerfstomped due to the emergence of an ultrabuild that utilizes only ONE weapon type and only ONE delivery method is beyond my comprehension. Borticus's comment that it "may not be a good idea" is one hell of an understatement.
Consider: in war, weapons are developed that give one side a distinct advantage. How does the other side respond? By developing appropriate countermeasures (or being soundly defeated, but that's not the point here). Wouldn't it make sense to address this overpowered weapon issue by providing more effective means to counter said weapon? Borticus suggested one such measure: decreasing the stealth on the mines. It's not an overhaul of anything, but it does aid both NPCs and players with countering the weapon.
Decreasing the overall damage and damage variance, while certainly a knee-jerk reaction, are not terrible ideas; they simply miss the point. Make it a real arms race. Increase the targets on CRF/FAW. Make mines EXTREMELY susceptible to Sci powers. Make carrier pets target mines with very high priority. I'm just throwing ideas out there; granted, they may not be the best ideas (or even good ideas at all), but anything beats a half-assed blanket fix like the asinine PDS idea.
The only people that get covered with vitriol spew in this subforum are those that come spewing vitriol...
IN GENERAL...
...I've long wondered (in many games, mind you) - what delusions some people operate under in regard to certain aspects of the game. It's like they heard somebody say that the Sun is pea green. They could spend all day out in the sun, for days on end - for weeks on end - for months, for years... seeing the sun each and every day - and they'd think it was pea green.
edit: I added the SandyBrown in general just to make it clear that wasn't directed at omega specifically. I think there might be a little bit of aggro in this thread that's coming across to folks when it's not meant to be there - possibly even a case of aggro here and there being carried over to other posts - general frustration coming across and leading to things possibly being read wrong.
your statement of it being a pver pretending to be a pvper that is just a blatant remark of one of the primary offenders to through blame elsewhere.
also as for the person quoting me.
i am aware of exactly why they where not usable with the skills i played in season 2 the golden era for this game.(current pvpers call it a dark age)
a lot more was in balance minus one or two skills.we didn't have all the P2W and escorts where not the be all win all they are now.
in closing yes nerf the damage on the trics do to the skill the scaling damage to help them cover more area but with relatively no benefit to damage.but by NO means implement the PDS.it will hurt the game more then losing a few pvpers.
No, it's pretty much the most offensive guy out there.
It's the guy that's going use every potential exploit/not working as intended thing in PvE possible to feel good about himself in PvE. He's going to brag about it, minus mentioning any of the nWAI stuff. He's going to put down his fellow PvE folks - he thrives in thinking that the min requirements to accomplish some task on the PvE side are X...when X would be massive overkill even for the hardest content available. They then decide that they should PvP - where they bring that same mentality. They're not actually there to PvP - they completely expect players on the other side to drop like NPCs - and they're going to treat their fellow players in PvP no better than they did in PvE. He'll use every exploit/nWAI available - he makes his sandwiches by putting a piece of bread between two pieces of cheese. Then he brags about his skills.
C'mon, surely you've met that guy... he's the PvE guy pretending to PvP.
The PDS thing...has nothing to do with PvP.
So obviously they've seen an issue in PvE.
I'm not sure anybody likes the PDS idea... but it's obviously a PvE thing and would have only come about if they've seen something in PvE...
...so it obviously had nothing to do with PvP.
Kind of like most of the fixes... they have nothing to do with PvP.
Do you think TBR would have been fixed for PvP?
No, it got fixed because people were stupid and system spamming the NWS stuff... PvE.
The T4 Omega shield passive? Tada... again PvE.
To be honest, I think the only reason that this got posted in the PvP sections was to make the PvPers think that Cryptic's paying attention to them - but when it ignores everything the PvP folks have talked about and instead mentions the PDS thing... once again, it's obvious that it's only being addressed because it's a PvE problem.
You may be right, considering the only reasons I can think of for carebears to be in this subforum are to 1) instigate; or 2) weigh in on threads describing changes that would affect all gameplay modes but are inexplicably posted in the PvP subforum. Obviously, I would be in the latter party.
Conversely, I'm not sure where you're going with the sun thing or how it applies to me. What I know about Tricobs is what I gained using them for a short period of time with no specialization whatsoever and what I've read/watched from this thread. I'm not one to take anything anyone says as gospel, but if my knowledge of something is limited then it's only logical to default to information provided by others with more experience.
Regardless of any of that, this thread definitely has me at Red Alert since I was looking at buying that Hyper Plasma Torp... gonna have to put that off for a bit now, since its future will be mighty bleak if that PDS garbage is implemented.
and also your reading comprehension is terrible that or you are not catching my drift the pvper cummunty is suggesting PDS to give pvers a hard time.it doesn't go through and a few of those less than useful players might rage quite you put the PDS through and you will lose a lot of pvers not just a few.
it will hurt the bottom line of PWE.
i don't pvp much these days not because i won't win but rather i do not wana deal with arrogant people like you.
Who said PvPers want the PDS on NPC's?
We don't care, that's NPC's.
Personally, I think it's a mistake.
All they need to do is fix the 1crit, they all Crit. Or, decouple the dispersal patterns from tric mines (if they do that, they should not decrease the damage or MES values)
You bring up a good point there, which invalidates what I said to an extent. There's definitely that chance for the vitriol to spill over to folks that were not intent upon spewing it in the first place.
Thomas comes to the PvP forums - spewing vitriol. Richard from the PvP forums, returns the favor in kind. Harold comes to the PvP forums, having followed the Dev Stalker or just seeing the thread and posts his thoughts. Richard, still fuming after what Thomas said - lashes out at Harold as well.
Yep, I've seen that. I've tried to point it out when I see it. Thomas deserves it - Harold doesn't.
I had tried to break that down into a separate paragraph, because it was no longer applying to you - it was more a general statement about what people think of the PvP forums, folks that PvP, etc, etc, etc. There are quite a few things said about both that are mind boggling. So it's one of those things that they've heard somebody say it and it's become the truth for them, regardless of what the truth may be. That wasn't directed at you specifically, and I should have done a better job at making it clear that was a general statement (I'll go back and add a disclaimer to it so that's clear).
Yeah, I'm not sure I've seen anybody in favor of the PDS thing.
They Hyper, any THY targetable, pets, all the other mines, etc, etc, etc, etc - everything that has nothing to do with Tric Mines - would be affected - so many things.
It's bad enough how often some of the things out there can FAWspam - but add in a PDS? That's just insane...
Pretty sure that every single Tric Mine thread I've seen here has come down to those two things: DPB + Crit Chains.
All the other stuff surrounding them, has been cleared away as mesmerizing fluff detracting from the issue of the DPB + Crit Chains.
It's been the constant feedback...that's been constantly ignored.
Wow, really? You're suggesting that the PvP community wants Cryptic to spend time implementing PDS to give PvE folks a more difficult time... nope, nothing to do with reading comprehension there in the least. That's one of those things that I would have never thought anybody would be stupid or insane enough to suggest. Not calling you stupid nor insane, mind you - it's just that I would have never guessed that somebody would be stupid or insane enough to suggest.
How do people that PvP get their gear? Oh, they PvE?
How do people that PvP tend to farm? Oh, they PvE?
Yeah, it's a PvE game where almost everything is centered around PvE...duh.
So wait a second here - it's not really a case that it's PvE vs. PvP at all is it?
No, it's the folks that PvE but do not PvP vs. the folks that PvE and PvP...
So you're suggesting that those folks that PvE (and PvP) suggested (nowhere to be seen) to Cryptic that they spend time (that the PvP folks have been asking to be spent elsewhere) on adding PDS to NPCs so that the PvE folks (that don't PvP) will have a hard time... even though, that would also mean a hard time for the PvE folks (that do PvP) when they PvE?
I would have never guessed that...
This is a post that deserves applause.
Between the old "Imbued summons" exploit in Champions Online and the Tricobalt Mine problem here in Star Trek Online, I think you guys need to tackle this immediately. It's a critical flaw in the engine and it needs to be addressed at some point. It's done nothing but cause problems for both of your games and headaches for the designers who had to scramble to pick up the mess. It's no exaggeration that, if you guys fixed this engine flaw, this Tricobalt Mine problem would cease to exist.
and yes im insane i play sto ;-)
You know, I was thinking about it - there was the suggestion from a few folks to give NPCs everything that players have. One could take that as giving PDS to NPCs... so you know, could entirely blame those PvP folks for that.
Brandonfl, can you say if this opinion is only yours or if it's the pretty much same for all Sad Pandas or/and others PvP_Fleets like some we can see here (TSI, TRH, etc...) ?
I ask that because if the "all crit hits" is removed I wanted to know if I can fit tricomines on my ship without be considered like a person using OP/I-win things in PvP.
Of course I know maybe you don't have the answer to my question, and others readers can give their opinions if they want.
Regards.
P.S. : Sorry if this message seems weird but my English knowledge is poor...
I'll just quote virusdancer, because what he said is pretty much true.
I think fixing those issues would make most PvPers happy.
12k damage per mine on a DPB3 as is now means about 80k kin damage on a crit. despite being chainable on 30 sec with a single tricobalt mine, it still allows a rear slot for other fun stuff, maybe even other mine types for trolling.
NPCs should use csv1, bfaw1 and ts1. they are really bland sometimes and only recently its that those NPCs started to cycle shields. could as well allow them to use polarize hull while timed to the player's skill, so a second after a dderix saw a player use DPB it uses bfaw and polarize hull to take out any possible mines. its what should happen anyway.
also it was not mentioned anywhere. if DPB is nerfed, will DPA be too? its not like deploying with a delay wouldnt be a nerf by itself.
The downside of a tric build in stf's is the cool down. One minuet in an stf is an eternity, if you don't have a decent build, and know how to help your team, then you will truly be useless. That's why I only run a tric build on one of my toons, and not my main. As opposed to essentially taking tric out of the game with this nerf, if they could just break the crit chain, or possibally nerf the dmg they could do to shields, while keeping the hull dmg high, it would allow trics to be a vaiable build for a talented player, while stoping the one shot kills that have made it so popular. As to stf's neutronium armor really helps against tricks, breaking the crit chains should solve most of the issues there.
Not true, I was running Infected with one of my fleet mates, and he one shoted the tact cube. It is possible, just very improbable.
Ablative armor does nothing against tricks, only montanium, and neutronium alloys work.
i just dont have a hangar pet on my fed
thats because the trics "stun" disables the ablative armor.
Do you even Science Bro?
Science characted fires Grav well and traps 6 to 8 spheres in it
Mine launcher caption lays the tric mines
all spheres go poof
the boss npcs go poof as well using varations of these tactics
2 science and 3 minlayers are..............God to a stf
sick
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I think someone confused the intrepid ability with the console...
Of course Mai is right the sci ability would only help against the first tric.
Well, technically they are both consoles now.
they just come to rant. but if they actualy read post from pvp'ers they would see we dont want this on npc because it wold hurt pve just abit. and trust me i hope pve gets hit so badly the kirk heroes will make millions of post bashing cryptic. then the pve'ers can get a tast of what we deal with.
just droping their damage by 10% wont do anything as has been pointed out
it will have to be A.separated from mine skills B.drop damage of tric mines down but leaving them still hitting harder then quantoms.