The major concern I have is opening up those players to the "PvP" that goes on in this forum lol. It's like a warzone in here; there is so much rule-breaking going on and players are constantly are being trolled and harassed -- it's really unfortunate that a few individuals are ruining it for the rest of those who like to use this forum and provide constructive (positive or negative), civil feedback. I've been working on a thread that I've been wanting to post in here that comes from the heart as a fellow player, as well as the Community Manager. I'm hoping to have it posted soon. Basically, the trolling and harassing has to stop -- it's not good for the community, and it really doesn't help the cause.
Honestly, Brandon... I think you guys seem to be perceiving a rise in negativity and hostility and I don't think it's entirely real. That's not to say that you don't feel pressure or that there aren't bursts of panic. I think a big factor that drives that is that however much Cryptic does or doesn't communicate, they don't communicate intent.
We can't test content without knowing intent. We often can't form play strategies without knowing intent. In lieu of stated intent, the community absolutely has to start building assumptions regarding design intent and this leads to some meticulous (if very flawed) theories that genuinely fit the facts we have from the outside. And the emotional outbursts here come from a mix of brusque communication and our attempts to create a working theory of intent.
It's bizarre to me because other developers in the industry are tighter with everything else but incredibly open regarding design philosophy and design intent. Cryptic is big on the what, the how, the when, and the wishlist but treats the "why" like some kind of guarded trade secret.
But beyond that, I'd say the general tenor of the forums is about on par with what I'd call a "Sunny Summer Sunday Dinner with Grandma" level of hostility and I genuinely don't get the touchiness. I don't know if its text or that a wall of text somehow gets equated with an attack or what but I guarantee you if I expressed some of the same points that I'm sure have rankled people here over a cup of coffee, you'd think I was polite and reasonable. But if I type it up as a thorough 7 paragraph post, where I try to anticipate criticism, it becomes "forum PvP" or a "rant."
I see that as a siege mentality. You guys are maybe a bit too close to eachother and the work and a bit too far from some of your most passionate players.
The major concern I have is opening up those players to the "PvP" that goes on in this forum lol. It's like a warzone in here; there is so much rule-breaking going on and players are constantly are being trolled and harassed -- it's really unfortunate that a few individuals are ruining it for the rest of those who like to use this forum and provide constructive (positive or negative), civil feedback. I've been working on a thread that I've been wanting to post in here that comes from the heart as a fellow player, as well as the Community Manager. I'm hoping to have it posted soon. Basically, the trolling and harassing has to stop -- it's not good for the community, and it really doesn't help the cause.
It's really simple. The more you moderate here, the more emotions you rise. For your and Cryptic's sake, it would be better to leave this section unmoderated and visit it just as a fellow pvper, not a mod.
PvP = emotions, Emotions need to get out, and people release steam on forums.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
As for your Boot Camp post, it's something I read this morning and have been thinking about. I really, really want to help out and support it. I think it could be really fun and I have some great ideas that I'd like to share to add to it, too.
The major concern I have is opening up those players to the "PvP" that goes on in this forum lol. It's like a warzone in here; there is so much rule-breaking going on and players are constantly are being trolled and harassed -- it's really unfortunate that a few individuals are ruining it for the rest of those who like to use this forum and provide constructive (positive or negative), civil feedback. I've been working on a thread that I've been wanting to post in here that comes from the heart as a fellow player, as well as the Community Manager. I'm hoping to have it posted soon. Basically, the trolling and harassing has to stop -- it's not good for the community, and it really doesn't help the cause.
Personally, I really enjoy PvPing -- I have played with a few of the best teams out there and always have a great time. They also share feedback and I pass it along often. I also read the threads and posts in this forum and know the feelings of the community towards the current state of PvP. We (the players, the STO team, Cryptic and Perfect World) want it to be a great experience. We've got some ways to go, but if we all work together, I think we can get to a point where PvP is something we'll see more players wanting to participate in. We won't get there overnight, but I hope that the increased Dev involvement in this sub-forum is a sign and a starting point.
There's a great discussion going on right now about the Runabouts with those who are testing the Vesta. Some REALLY good feedback coming in that may even help bring a couple changes to how they work. Everything is still in discussion, so I won't say anything further than that.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Thanks for the response again, Brandon.
I don't want to sidetrack this Vesta post, so perhaps we can continue this conversation either in the "Boot Camp" forum (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=429771) or you can contact me at my P1 email so that we can work out some details:
The idea of bringing fresh blood and helping them break through the intimidation factor that keeps them from PvP is a completely separate issue from the trolling nonsense that sometimes goes on here (but also in many other forums). Please don't let the good die because of the ugly.
There is an opportunity here for a grass-roots, education based revivification of PvP. This has already begun with groups like Pandas, Hilbert's guides, and the many other intro-to-PvP guides out there (sorry cant give credit to all of you for your hard work!) who see education and training as the key to bringing in new players. Small tastes of success are the bait that will bring in new players.
While the new players we recruit may, inadvertently, find their way into the forum-pvp-arena, they may also find their way to things like:
- The Jedi Council: Acc vs. Deffense post
- The Hilbert Guide to PvP
- Basic Tips from Survivor
- and the list could go on.
Surely access to these resources outweighs players having to read the occasional flame-post.
So please, you and I have more common ground on this issue than, prima facie, it migth seem.
Then again, that might have to wait for the Typhoon, eh?
Maybe one "sooner" and then two with the Typhoon?
Ooooh *drools*...
Yeah only thing I'd want to see besides what I'm drooling over is a Negh'var retrofit with a LC universal so you can make it go Tactical or Sci there instead of engineering but for those who still like that LC engineering can still keep it. I'd rather see them remove the fleet negh'var like they did with sovy than having a ensign universal which is about worthless because most people would just make it engineering anyways which is what the negh'var already has.
I would go on about my idea I'll put it in Klingon Fleetyards since this is about the vesta thread but I'm glad the fed side finally got this vesta coming because its been an issue that most every player wanted it in game.
I just hope players that are mostly fed only would extend the same token on KDF getting some these long awaited ships as well that we haven't recieved either. Being Star Trek was mostly about the federation though I can see where more ships would be available to make I would just like to see the KDF not completely ignored. I guess this is a nicer way to try to explain my view on the matter.
I'm primarily talking about how some individuals are treating other individuals in this forum. As you can see from the threads that are still available to post in, there are many, many threads that include "negativity" or "hostility" towards changes, additions, design decisions etc. -- after all, this is a feedback forum where all types of feedback are welcome. It's the objectionable and vulgar material/ content, the harassing comments, the name calling, and the flaming and trolling that's the problem. The moment the feedback crosses into those lines, it's not okay.
It's really simple. The more you moderate here, the more emotions you rise. For your and Cryptic's sake, it would be better to leave this section unmoderated and visit it just as a fellow pvper, not a mod.
PvP = emotions, Emotions need to get out, and people release steam on forums.
Unfortunately, this is not an option We want to maintain an environment where players can come to leave feedback and participate in discussion without having to be worried about what I posted above. Unfortunately, players who repeatedly break the rules will not be welcome to participate.
EDIT: We can continue this discussion in this thread if you'd like to quote this post there. Let's leave this thread for feedback regarding the "Vesta in PvP".
or nerf runabouts. i actually would prefer this. cur thier hit points in half, and give them tractor beam 0.5 and they would mearly be as op as kdf siphon drones and advanced interceptors. if this is done, it can keep its hanger, it wont single handily double a vesta's threat and control capability anymore.
This.
Having owned an Armitage since release, I haven't once used Danubes in PvP due to a desire for fair play (not that it stopped other players from using them).
Having owned an Armitage since release, I haven't once used Danubes in PvP due to a desire for fair play (not that it stopped other players from using them).
Reposting for visibility:
There's a great discussion going on right now about the Runabouts with those who are testing the Vesta. Some REALLY good feedback coming in that may even help bring a couple changes to how they work. Everything is still in discussion, so I won't say anything further than that.
There's a great discussion going on right now about the Runabouts with those who are testing the Vesta. Some REALLY good feedback coming in that may even help bring a couple changes to how they work. Everything is still in discussion, so I won't say anything further than that.
Why exactly have you published stats on the Vesta if there is still testing going on that can lead to major changes? Or will there be no changes to the vesta no matter what the tests show?
Why exactly have you published stats on the Vesta if there is still testing going on that can lead to major changes? Or will there be no changes to the vesta no matter what the tests show?
At the bottom of the blog, there's a note that states that the stats are subject to change.
Cmd Sci: TBR 3, Viral 1, TSS 2, HE 1
LtC Universal: Emergency power to shields 1, Aux to Bat 1, Eject Warp Plasma 1
Lt Engineering: Emergency power to Aux 1, Aux to Bat 1
Lt Tac: Tac Team 1, Rapid Fire 1 or Torp Spread 2
Ensign Universal: Tractor Beam 1
Console Slots:
2 Engineering: Resistance and/or Borg console
4 Sci: Particle Generator x4
4 Tac: Energy type or Kinetic Damage type of choice
DOFFS:
3x Technicians
2x Viral or 2x Torpedo
Sensor Analsis.. check..
All Boff powers on Global? Double check.
The ability to obliterate the enemy? Triple check.. (Or maybe I'm just delusional :P)
What? I should be focusing on those new Aux DHC's? Pfft.. Regular DHC's will work fine!
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Cmd Sci: TBR 3, Viral 1, TSS 2, HE 1
LtC Universal: Emergency power to shields 1, Aux to Bat 1, Eject Warp Plasma 1
Lt Engineering: Emergency power to Aux 1, Aux to Bat 1
Lt Tac: Tac Team 1, Rapid Fire 1 or Torp Spread 2
Ensign Universal: Tractor Beam 1
Console Slots:
2 Engineering: Resistance and/or Borg console
4 Sci: Particle Generator x4
4 Tac: Energy type or Kinetic Damage type of choice
DOFFS:
3x Technicians
2x Viral or 2x Torpedo
What? I should be focusing on those new Aux DHC's? Pfft.. Regular DHC's will work fine!
Aux2Batt FTW!!!
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
At the bottom of the blog, there's a note that states that the stats are subject to change.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Sorry Brandon, but typically when we see the stats.. we expect it to be coming out with in 24-48 hours.. If there really is still testing being done, and it's not scheduled to come out till Season 7 Launches, then that will be the first good news I've heard in a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
At the bottom of the blog, there's a note that states that the stats are subject to change.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
And you truly believe that ?
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Not interested, my Fleet Recon has more shields and exact boff layout I need so I don't need the universals. I'd also take the Fleet Nova or Fleet Intrepid over this thing. If I want a sci ship with hangar I would use Atrox instead.
Its going to be really annoying for the first few days this thing comes out and we will see all kind of people who don't know how to play sci ships flooding STFs with this thing. I'll probably leave and take penalty if I see more then 2 of these.
At the bottom of the blog, there's a note that states that the stats are subject to change.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Vesta looks awesome sauce. But for the longest Cryptic has straggled the fence with making something great and fun for PvE (which will be great for sales) vs. imbalance in PvP.
You guys really need to consider creating a separate damage and ability system for PvP that is independent of what ship and equipment you use. That way the majority can have fun with their new toys without worrying much about nerfs. And PvP'ers will finally have a permanently balanced system that is isolated from "FOTM", "OP", etc.
Vesta looks awesome sauce. But for the longest Cryptic has straggled the fence with making something great and fun for PvE (which will be great for sales) vs. imbalance in PvP.
You guys really need to consider creating a separate damage and ability system for PvP that is independent of what ship and equipment you use. That way the majority can have fun with their new toys without worrying much about nerfs. And PvP'ers will finally have a permanently balanced system that is isolated from "FOTM", "OP", etc.
Wrong, balance is balance, either on PVP or PVE. All ship needs to be viable on both areas!
And btw cryptic, you guys didn't take my money with the Ody, the lockbox ships, and you are NOT going to take my money with this OP beast. You loss your chance with the useless Sove rift.
Basically, the trolling and harassing has to stop -- it's not good for the community, and it really doesn't help the cause.
...We (the players, the STO team, Cryptic and Perfect World) want it to be a great experience. We've got some ways to go, but if we all work together, I think we can get to a point where PvP is something we'll see more players wanting to participate in.
There's a great discussion going on right now about the Runabouts with those who are testing the Vesta. Some REALLY good feedback coming in that may even help bring a couple changes to how they work.
That is just great. Brandon, this ZINGleet feedback about the friggin runabouts has been screamed up Cryptic's ears since the release of the Atrox. Instead of doing something about it, the Devs in their infinite wisdom made them even stronger and more annoying. Oh yes and release escorts, fed carriers, and now OP Vesta, to make sure that there are plenty of them to go around. Oh yes there are also more annoying fleet version of them. Brilliant response to the univocal feedback you have been getting. I'm not even sure in which universes Cryptic thinks it deserves some recognition for this.
Yes, I read the redshirt patchnotes, but sorry the stats of the Vesta invalidate anything you are doing there. How long have BFI doffs and SNB doffs in game, right the start of S5. How long are we complaining about them, right since release. What have you done with our great feedback, slightly nerfed SNB doffs, and then swamped the market with them so they become even more of a problem. Since there are more to go around now, lets just make sure to boost them back up again, like we did with RSP, hi maybe we get some spike in respec purchases out of it.
I m sorry Brandon, its cryptic trolling and harassing the PvP'ers. Our mostly friendly barter on the forums is not the problem. Just another way to misdirect attention from the real problem. More players becoming aware of the neglect, broken promises, and sheer incompetence of the Systems team when it comes to anything PvP related (don't get me started on lolground). That is the problem. Incompetence is the right word here, since they can't even test 5 men team play with their QnA team according to their statements here on the forum. They have zero experience according to their own statement with it. This is not harassing Devs, it is what "incompetence" means.
"Judge me by my record, DStahl" well there you have it. This new-speech about the great feedback, that subsequently gets completely ignored (FM for PvP, Leaderboards, Siphons, SPam), broken promises (we'll fix cloak, we'll fix Kerrat -> as intended), is really pushing it.
For the record, who was it that started the whole "inconvenient truths" about pvp in these forums. Right, that was Gozer, at the time a Dev.
To be clear: the evil forum pvp'ers are not what newbies need protection from. (less then 1% of 2% of players). Learning just how badly broken, imbalanced, and nonsensical most of the contributions of the systems team have been since Season 1.2 is what Cryptic should be ashamed off.
There's a great discussion going on right now about the Runabouts with those who are testing the Vesta. Some REALLY good feedback coming in that may even help bring a couple changes to how they work. Everything is still in discussion, so I won't say anything further than that.
There's a bit too much new features on this ship. It's not only runabouts, it's about aux cannons, sci ship with DHCs, 3 new consoles... With the existing consoles and stuff, it'll get soon out of control if you guys keep releasing new equipment at such a rate, because I'm sure you don't test every single possible combo - and we can find new dirty ones with every new piece of equipment.
IMO this ship is too resilient to be allowed to carry fighters. Hull doesn't matter much, since hull is meaningful in PvE only (hull only determines if you get blown up by the mobs' special attacks); in pvp hull doesn't matter much since when your shields are down you're dead. The shield modifier shouldn't be that high. If you give it a 1.2 modifier I think the ship will be fine, it'll have way more dps than any science ships, pets, and will be somewhat weak to pay for its pets and dps.
Danubes are a completely unrelated issue, I don't think it should be tied to the Vesta. Danubes are also very useful to regular carriers, with a very low turnrate, they allow them to use frontal dps - something which isn't reasonable to do without danubes. If you nerf them you'll severely nerf carriers, and it will allow escorts to tank even more, if they aren't stopped from tanking like mad by tractor beams anymore.
So, nerfing danubes is something you should consider twice, because if you do that you will:
- make carriers useless in pvp. Their turnrate is too low not to be compensated by tractor beams. Most of the time, escorts are immune anyway, and i've never seen a good cruiser really annoyed by danubes.
- make escorts even more powerful, since danubes are one of the main ways to stop them from tanking like mad without any team support. Actually, when I fly my temporal destroyer, danubes are almost the only way to take me down with the snb doff or a tremendous amount of teamwork.
If you nerf danubes them you should also nerf:
- escorts shields. No escort should have a shield modifier superior to 0.85 (including the armittage).
- attack pattern doffs. It makes regular tractor beam useless and gives escort a permanent immunity to them.
There is only one possitive thing about the Vesta - if it is released in the current form. So many people will buy it and realize how most science abilities suck, because cryptic nerfed them to hell. Maybe the outcry in the general section from pve crowd will finally make Cryptic to fix and buff sci stuff.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
First new content since March? Season 6 launched just over 3 months ago in July.
This is a communication Error:
Definition of the word Content from Dev and Player perspectives means different things:
If a Player says "Content" he means: "STORY", be it Featured Episodes, shorty stuff like Hearts and Minds or single missions like Alpha.
or STORY Progression. (hopefully with memorable characters like Obisek)
There was no such thing in Season 6,
the 10 minute queue maps do not count as "Content" if you ask most players,
those are just "grind maps", there is no Story at all to them.
The best example is on KDF side if REBEL Gorn are attacking the KDF Starbase, there was never any mention anywhere in STO about a Gorn Rebellion, and i want to know more about that Rebellion, heck i want my Gorn Captain to HELP those guys.
"Nukara" was also in Season 6, and sure as hell counts as content, but is there Story?
It really is just a farming Zone with not much Story progression. At best it adds FLAVOR to the game.
I hope New Romulus will supply more Story than Nukara did (i intentonally skipped any text dialogs on Tribble to not spoil me too much), but having played it on Tribble i am sure there is not much gameplay challenge to be found,
feels more like a Tutorial Zone from any other MMO, go there collect flowers and water samples, go here do that, bring me 10 fur of bores... i don't know.
When i first started this game i loved it because this kill 10 rats stuff was NOT in STO, i killed BORG in the Tutorial and i killed Klingon Birds of Prey and Negh'Vars after that... now this stuff appears 3 years later and you guys call it Endgame Content?
mhm... ok... not sure yet what to think about all that.
But if a DEV says "Content": every type of MAP or even Art Asset qualifies as "content",
which is technically the correct term, but not what the Players are talking about or craving for.
We are STAR TREK FANS, we want STAR TREK STORY, and you are not delivering nearly enough of that, no matter what type of Fanboy sunglasses you try on (and i feel like i tried them all).
One thing has improved in STO since Free 2 Play, you keep us busy doing ...stuff.
That is a lot more than Cryptic gave us under Atari, at that time i barely had a reason to log in, now i at least do my dilithium dailies and check on the Fleetbase UI and soon Reputation UI.
But there is still nothing going on with Story...
Some might point me in the Foundry direction now, but the Foundry is Fan Fiction, will never have Voice Overs and at the moment doesn't even have a proper reward System (and i am PI**ED that the Reputation System does not have a Foundry Tab with actual rewards!)
At the bottom of the blog, there's a note that states that the stats are subject to change.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
seeing as the vesta is a mold breaker, i hope the way it is handled is a mold breaker. all of us wont be able to forget the flagship release, were their stats were vastly OP compared to everything else, and after hundreds of pages of feedback, NOT A SINGLE CHANGE WAS MADE TO THEIR STATS.
everything since then has been power creep snowballing, leading to this ship, now in the same situation. i hope you can understand our DEEP skeptisism. this talk of all this internal testing still going on is very promising though. if at least runabouts are nerfed, i'll be happy.
seeing as the vesta is a mold breaker, i hope the way it is handled is a mold breaker. all of us wont be able to forget the flagship release, were their stats were vastly OP compared to everything else, and after hundreds of pages of feedback, NOT A SINGLE CHANGE WAS MADE TO THEIR STATS.
everything since then has been power creep snowballing, leading to this ship, now in the same situation. i hope you can understand our DEEP skeptisism. this talk of all this internal testing still going on is very promising though. if at least runabouts are nerfed, i'll be happy.
Serisously totally OP BS ship gets released for 5000 zen invalidating all previous ships of its class. (see oddy) and we congratulate them on finally fixing runabouts maybe at some time, just not the fleet version as there are no T5 starbases yet?????
Because they are still testing, without the testers having access to the ship, boy do they value actual play-tested feedback.
BTW, where is Gecko in all these balance debates. Brandon is a marketing bunny, but where is the guy who is responsible for these releases and changes? I would love to hear how we are all to stupid to spec into resists, or what is the excuse this time? What about "there are always counters?"
Cmd Sci: TBR 3, Viral 1, TSS 2, HE 1
LtC Universal: Emergency power to shields 1, Aux to Bat 1, Eject Warp Plasma 1
Lt Engineering: Emergency power to Aux 1, Aux to Bat 1
Lt Tac: Tac Team 1, Rapid Fire 1 or Torp Spread 2
Ensign Universal: Tractor Beam 1
Console Slots:
2 Engineering: Resistance and/or Borg console
4 Sci: Particle Generator x4
4 Tac: Energy type or Kinetic Damage type of choice
DOFFS:
3x Technicians
2x Viral or 2x Torpedo
Sensor Analsis.. check..
All Boff powers on Global? Double check.
The ability to obliterate the enemy? Triple check.. (Or maybe I'm just delusional :P)
What? I should be focusing on those new Aux DHC's? Pfft.. Regular DHC's will work fine!
this is what i'd use for a tac captain, mine was more sci cap focused. having your own tractor beam, at global cooldown, is pretty cruel and unusual punishment wile also having a runabout hanger lol
Serisously totally OP BS ship gets released for 5000 zen invalidating all previous ships of its class. (see oddy) and we congratulate them on finally fixing runabouts maybe at some time, just not the fleet version as there are no T5 starbases yet?????
Because they are still testing, without the testers having access to the ship, boy do they value actual play-tested feedback.
BTW, where is Gecko in all these balance debates. Brandon is a marketing bunny, but where is the guy who is responsible for these releases and changes? I would love to hear how we are all to stupid to spec into resists, or what is the excuse this time? What about "there are always counters?"
when i said id be happy about a runabout nerf, i didnt mean id be happy about an unnerfed vesta also. that needs to happen too.
Except that I would ditch 2 beam arrays for 2 turrets (or 1 trico to drop in the warp plasma)
What is the effect of sensor analysis on tet-glider?
I gave it a quick test on the Fleet Recon and it appears tet glider's only affected by weapons power and flow cap. It isn't Tac-buffable (except insofar as you proc it more often) either.
Comments
Honestly, Brandon... I think you guys seem to be perceiving a rise in negativity and hostility and I don't think it's entirely real. That's not to say that you don't feel pressure or that there aren't bursts of panic. I think a big factor that drives that is that however much Cryptic does or doesn't communicate, they don't communicate intent.
We can't test content without knowing intent. We often can't form play strategies without knowing intent. In lieu of stated intent, the community absolutely has to start building assumptions regarding design intent and this leads to some meticulous (if very flawed) theories that genuinely fit the facts we have from the outside. And the emotional outbursts here come from a mix of brusque communication and our attempts to create a working theory of intent.
It's bizarre to me because other developers in the industry are tighter with everything else but incredibly open regarding design philosophy and design intent. Cryptic is big on the what, the how, the when, and the wishlist but treats the "why" like some kind of guarded trade secret.
But beyond that, I'd say the general tenor of the forums is about on par with what I'd call a "Sunny Summer Sunday Dinner with Grandma" level of hostility and I genuinely don't get the touchiness. I don't know if its text or that a wall of text somehow gets equated with an attack or what but I guarantee you if I expressed some of the same points that I'm sure have rankled people here over a cup of coffee, you'd think I was polite and reasonable. But if I type it up as a thorough 7 paragraph post, where I try to anticipate criticism, it becomes "forum PvP" or a "rant."
I see that as a siege mentality. You guys are maybe a bit too close to eachother and the work and a bit too far from some of your most passionate players.
It's really simple. The more you moderate here, the more emotions you rise. For your and Cryptic's sake, it would be better to leave this section unmoderated and visit it just as a fellow pvper, not a mod.
PvP = emotions, Emotions need to get out, and people release steam on forums.
Thanks for the response again, Brandon.
I don't want to sidetrack this Vesta post, so perhaps we can continue this conversation either in the "Boot Camp" forum (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=429771) or you can contact me at my P1 email so that we can work out some details:
sargon.priorityone@gmail.com
But let me say one thing:
The idea of bringing fresh blood and helping them break through the intimidation factor that keeps them from PvP is a completely separate issue from the trolling nonsense that sometimes goes on here (but also in many other forums). Please don't let the good die because of the ugly.
There is an opportunity here for a grass-roots, education based revivification of PvP. This has already begun with groups like Pandas, Hilbert's guides, and the many other intro-to-PvP guides out there (sorry cant give credit to all of you for your hard work!) who see education and training as the key to bringing in new players. Small tastes of success are the bait that will bring in new players.
While the new players we recruit may, inadvertently, find their way into the forum-pvp-arena, they may also find their way to things like:
- The Jedi Council: Acc vs. Deffense post
- The Hilbert Guide to PvP
- Basic Tips from Survivor
- and the list could go on.
Surely access to these resources outweighs players having to read the occasional flame-post.
So please, you and I have more common ground on this issue than, prima facie, it migth seem.
My inbox is waiting . . .
Ooooh *drools*...
Yeah only thing I'd want to see besides what I'm drooling over is a Negh'var retrofit with a LC universal so you can make it go Tactical or Sci there instead of engineering but for those who still like that LC engineering can still keep it. I'd rather see them remove the fleet negh'var like they did with sovy than having a ensign universal which is about worthless because most people would just make it engineering anyways which is what the negh'var already has.
I would go on about my idea I'll put it in Klingon Fleetyards since this is about the vesta thread but I'm glad the fed side finally got this vesta coming because its been an issue that most every player wanted it in game.
I just hope players that are mostly fed only would extend the same token on KDF getting some these long awaited ships as well that we haven't recieved either. Being Star Trek was mostly about the federation though I can see where more ships would be available to make I would just like to see the KDF not completely ignored. I guess this is a nicer way to try to explain my view on the matter.
Here's hopes that everyone enjoys their Vesta
I'll be in contact
I'm primarily talking about how some individuals are treating other individuals in this forum. As you can see from the threads that are still available to post in, there are many, many threads that include "negativity" or "hostility" towards changes, additions, design decisions etc. -- after all, this is a feedback forum where all types of feedback are welcome. It's the objectionable and vulgar material/ content, the harassing comments, the name calling, and the flaming and trolling that's the problem. The moment the feedback crosses into those lines, it's not okay.
Unfortunately, this is not an option
EDIT: We can continue this discussion in this thread if you'd like to quote this post there. Let's leave this thread for feedback regarding the "Vesta in PvP".
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
This.
Having owned an Armitage since release, I haven't once used Danubes in PvP due to a desire for fair play (not that it stopped other players from using them).
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Reposting for visibility:
There's a great discussion going on right now about the Runabouts with those who are testing the Vesta. Some REALLY good feedback coming in that may even help bring a couple changes to how they work. Everything is still in discussion, so I won't say anything further than that.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
At the bottom of the blog, there's a note that states that the stats are subject to change.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
Tactical Variant/Tactical Officer
Cmd Sci: TBR 3, Viral 1, TSS 2, HE 1
LtC Universal: Emergency power to shields 1, Aux to Bat 1, Eject Warp Plasma 1
Lt Engineering: Emergency power to Aux 1, Aux to Bat 1
Lt Tac: Tac Team 1, Rapid Fire 1 or Torp Spread 2
Ensign Universal: Tractor Beam 1
Console Slots:
2 Engineering: Resistance and/or Borg console
4 Sci: Particle Generator x4
4 Tac: Energy type or Kinetic Damage type of choice
DOFFS:
3x Technicians
2x Viral or 2x Torpedo
Sensor Analsis.. check..
All Boff powers on Global? Double check.
The ability to obliterate the enemy? Triple check.. (Or maybe I'm just delusional :P)
What? I should be focusing on those new Aux DHC's? Pfft.. Regular DHC's will work fine!
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
Sorry Brandon, but typically when we see the stats.. we expect it to be coming out with in 24-48 hours.. If there really is still testing being done, and it's not scheduled to come out till Season 7 Launches, then that will be the first good news I've heard in a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
And you truly believe that ?
those stats better change, because i'm not buying it if it comes with those lousy low dps stats
Its going to be really annoying for the first few days this thing comes out and we will see all kind of people who don't know how to play sci ships flooding STFs with this thing. I'll probably leave and take penalty if I see more then 2 of these.
Vesta looks awesome sauce. But for the longest Cryptic has straggled the fence with making something great and fun for PvE (which will be great for sales) vs. imbalance in PvP.
You guys really need to consider creating a separate damage and ability system for PvP that is independent of what ship and equipment you use. That way the majority can have fun with their new toys without worrying much about nerfs. And PvP'ers will finally have a permanently balanced system that is isolated from "FOTM", "OP", etc.
Wrong, balance is balance, either on PVP or PVE. All ship needs to be viable on both areas!
And btw cryptic, you guys didn't take my money with the Ody, the lockbox ships, and you are NOT going to take my money with this OP beast. You loss your chance with the useless Sove rift.
Good luck next time.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
That is just great. Brandon, this ZINGleet feedback about the friggin runabouts has been screamed up Cryptic's ears since the release of the Atrox. Instead of doing something about it, the Devs in their infinite wisdom made them even stronger and more annoying. Oh yes and release escorts, fed carriers, and now OP Vesta, to make sure that there are plenty of them to go around. Oh yes there are also more annoying fleet version of them. Brilliant response to the univocal feedback you have been getting. I'm not even sure in which universes Cryptic thinks it deserves some recognition for this.
Yes, I read the redshirt patchnotes, but sorry the stats of the Vesta invalidate anything you are doing there. How long have BFI doffs and SNB doffs in game, right the start of S5. How long are we complaining about them, right since release. What have you done with our great feedback, slightly nerfed SNB doffs, and then swamped the market with them so they become even more of a problem. Since there are more to go around now, lets just make sure to boost them back up again, like we did with RSP, hi maybe we get some spike in respec purchases out of it.
I m sorry Brandon, its cryptic trolling and harassing the PvP'ers. Our mostly friendly barter on the forums is not the problem. Just another way to misdirect attention from the real problem. More players becoming aware of the neglect, broken promises, and sheer incompetence of the Systems team when it comes to anything PvP related (don't get me started on lolground). That is the problem. Incompetence is the right word here, since they can't even test 5 men team play with their QnA team according to their statements here on the forum. They have zero experience according to their own statement with it. This is not harassing Devs, it is what "incompetence" means.
"Judge me by my record, DStahl" well there you have it. This new-speech about the great feedback, that subsequently gets completely ignored (FM for PvP, Leaderboards, Siphons, SPam), broken promises (we'll fix cloak, we'll fix Kerrat -> as intended), is really pushing it.
For the record, who was it that started the whole "inconvenient truths" about pvp in these forums. Right, that was Gozer, at the time a Dev.
To be clear: the evil forum pvp'ers are not what newbies need protection from. (less then 1% of 2% of players). Learning just how badly broken, imbalanced, and nonsensical most of the contributions of the systems team have been since Season 1.2 is what Cryptic should be ashamed off.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
There's a bit too much new features on this ship. It's not only runabouts, it's about aux cannons, sci ship with DHCs, 3 new consoles... With the existing consoles and stuff, it'll get soon out of control if you guys keep releasing new equipment at such a rate, because I'm sure you don't test every single possible combo - and we can find new dirty ones with every new piece of equipment.
IMO this ship is too resilient to be allowed to carry fighters. Hull doesn't matter much, since hull is meaningful in PvE only (hull only determines if you get blown up by the mobs' special attacks); in pvp hull doesn't matter much since when your shields are down you're dead. The shield modifier shouldn't be that high. If you give it a 1.2 modifier I think the ship will be fine, it'll have way more dps than any science ships, pets, and will be somewhat weak to pay for its pets and dps.
Danubes are a completely unrelated issue, I don't think it should be tied to the Vesta. Danubes are also very useful to regular carriers, with a very low turnrate, they allow them to use frontal dps - something which isn't reasonable to do without danubes. If you nerf them you'll severely nerf carriers, and it will allow escorts to tank even more, if they aren't stopped from tanking like mad by tractor beams anymore.
So, nerfing danubes is something you should consider twice, because if you do that you will:
- make carriers useless in pvp. Their turnrate is too low not to be compensated by tractor beams. Most of the time, escorts are immune anyway, and i've never seen a good cruiser really annoyed by danubes.
- make escorts even more powerful, since danubes are one of the main ways to stop them from tanking like mad without any team support. Actually, when I fly my temporal destroyer, danubes are almost the only way to take me down with the snb doff or a tremendous amount of teamwork.
If you nerf danubes them you should also nerf:
- escorts shields. No escort should have a shield modifier superior to 0.85 (including the armittage).
- attack pattern doffs. It makes regular tractor beam useless and gives escort a permanent immunity to them.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
This is a communication Error:
Definition of the word Content from Dev and Player perspectives means different things:
If a Player says "Content" he means: "STORY", be it Featured Episodes, shorty stuff like Hearts and Minds or single missions like Alpha.
or STORY Progression. (hopefully with memorable characters like Obisek)
There was no such thing in Season 6,
the 10 minute queue maps do not count as "Content" if you ask most players,
those are just "grind maps", there is no Story at all to them.
The best example is on KDF side if REBEL Gorn are attacking the KDF Starbase, there was never any mention anywhere in STO about a Gorn Rebellion, and i want to know more about that Rebellion, heck i want my Gorn Captain to HELP those guys.
"Nukara" was also in Season 6, and sure as hell counts as content, but is there Story?
It really is just a farming Zone with not much Story progression. At best it adds FLAVOR to the game.
I hope New Romulus will supply more Story than Nukara did (i intentonally skipped any text dialogs on Tribble to not spoil me too much), but having played it on Tribble i am sure there is not much gameplay challenge to be found,
feels more like a Tutorial Zone from any other MMO, go there collect flowers and water samples, go here do that, bring me 10 fur of bores... i don't know.
When i first started this game i loved it because this kill 10 rats stuff was NOT in STO, i killed BORG in the Tutorial and i killed Klingon Birds of Prey and Negh'Vars after that... now this stuff appears 3 years later and you guys call it Endgame Content?
mhm... ok... not sure yet what to think about all that.
But if a DEV says "Content": every type of MAP or even Art Asset qualifies as "content",
which is technically the correct term, but not what the Players are talking about or craving for.
We are STAR TREK FANS, we want STAR TREK STORY, and you are not delivering nearly enough of that, no matter what type of Fanboy sunglasses you try on (and i feel like i tried them all).
One thing has improved in STO since Free 2 Play, you keep us busy doing ...stuff.
That is a lot more than Cryptic gave us under Atari, at that time i barely had a reason to log in, now i at least do my dilithium dailies and check on the Fleetbase UI and soon Reputation UI.
But there is still nothing going on with Story...
Some might point me in the Foundry direction now, but the Foundry is Fan Fiction, will never have Voice Overs and at the moment doesn't even have a proper reward System (and i am PI**ED that the Reputation System does not have a Foundry Tab with actual rewards!)
I can't roll my eyes hard enough, sorry.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Exactly what i was thinking of
Except that I would ditch 2 beam arrays for 2 turrets (or 1 trico to drop in the warp plasma)
What is the effect of sensor analysis on tet-glider?
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
seeing as the vesta is a mold breaker, i hope the way it is handled is a mold breaker. all of us wont be able to forget the flagship release, were their stats were vastly OP compared to everything else, and after hundreds of pages of feedback, NOT A SINGLE CHANGE WAS MADE TO THEIR STATS.
everything since then has been power creep snowballing, leading to this ship, now in the same situation. i hope you can understand our DEEP skeptisism. this talk of all this internal testing still going on is very promising though. if at least runabouts are nerfed, i'll be happy.
Serisously totally OP BS ship gets released for 5000 zen invalidating all previous ships of its class. (see oddy) and we congratulate them on finally fixing runabouts maybe at some time, just not the fleet version as there are no T5 starbases yet?????
Because they are still testing, without the testers having access to the ship, boy do they value actual play-tested feedback.
BTW, where is Gecko in all these balance debates. Brandon is a marketing bunny, but where is the guy who is responsible for these releases and changes? I would love to hear how we are all to stupid to spec into resists, or what is the excuse this time? What about "there are always counters?"
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
this is what i'd use for a tac captain, mine was more sci cap focused. having your own tractor beam, at global cooldown, is pretty cruel and unusual punishment wile also having a runabout hanger lol
when i said id be happy about a runabout nerf, i didnt mean id be happy about an unnerfed vesta also. that needs to happen too.
I gave it a quick test on the Fleet Recon and it appears tet glider's only affected by weapons power and flow cap. It isn't Tac-buffable (except insofar as you proc it more often) either.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples