I know Perfect World is a pretty demanding company, but please realize that unlike their game, which is suffering from a drasticaly declining player-base, this game, Star Trek, cares about its players and its fans.
Are PWE's flagship games loosing players and the ones remaining spending less than before? I've heard that elsewhere but hadn't confirmed it. People say that the gambling and lockbox games work so well in asia because their cultures are different.... all I know is feeling ripped off crosses cultural and national borders!
I hope its true, the sooner self destructive behavior is noticed the sooner it can be stopped. I doubt PWE is the type of company to do that though... what I see happening is them trying to aggressively shift their games to new markets like the Americas and Europe. This may in fact be the reason why they bought Cryptic in the first place, to give them a foot in the door and help them figure out how to move their games over to new markets faster and with less hassle... I don't want to imagine what over monetized monstrosity NW could turn out to be. Ah well, wasn't going to get involved in any more PWE games anyway. I'm pretty sad lockboxes and "lobi" made it to CO already .
All these replys for sure hurt some of the buzz going into Season 7. Considering this was the big update that was suposed to give us tons of stuff to do all we're seeing so far is more ways to take money out of our pocket.
I think we need alot more good news about season 7 so folks will calm a bit down. But I recomend everyone watch the updates to tribble to see how this season forms shapes up.
S7 was when we finally got content and story again!... yay?... anything about the story or content mentioned so far? All i've heard are rumblings about repeatable maps for marks that are no better than what came in S6... and an STF to the heart of the Borg collective where players just magically appear a few corridors from the Borg Queen . Where's my epic space battle Cryptic??!!
No, it really isn't. Here's the numbers you're not seeing:
A full set of Mk XII Gear costs 3000 Marks, 15 Elite Marks, and ~100,000 Dilithium.
Attaining Tier 5 in Omega Rep costs 1,686 Marks, 0 Elite Marks, and ~80,000 Dilithium.
Acknowledging we don't know the full story yet, I tried my hand at the math for a brand new VA with no current STF "currency" drops to get enough "currency" for a full set of Mk XII gear by running only 3 (successful) Elite STFs with optional per day (say one is adequately equipped from grinding to VA and does STFs with competent fleet members):
3k Marks / 60 Marks per run = 50 runs... 3 runs per day -> ~17 days.
15 Elite Marks / 1 Elite Mark per run = 15 runs... 3 runs per day -> 5 days... let's come back to this one.
100k Dil / 1.1k Dil per run = ~91 runs... 3 runs per day -> ~30 days...
BUT Elite Marks can also be traded in for Dil... since you currently get 2 EDCs per Elite run and 10 EDCs can be traded in for 1056 Dil, each Elite run is worth ~211 Dil... assuming an Elite Mark will be worth that made (big assumption), that makes each Elite run (after the 15th) worth 1.311k Dil, and would require ~64 runs ((100k Dil - 15 runs * 1.1k Dil/run) / 1.311k/run-after-15th-) + 15 runs = 79 runs... @ 3 per day -> ~26 days.
FWIW, if Elite Marks are worth 1.1k each, that reduces the # of runs to get the required Dil from 79 to 53... @ 3 runs per day -> ~18 days, roughly the same as the Mark requirement.
Of course, there is an opportunity cost to this new grind (lost time from doing other (STO) things, loss of use of Dil for other Dil/Zen purchases), but what I am seeing is this is the price to pay for "cost certainty": if you complete any combination of a certain amount of elite STFs (with optional), which looks to be 50 in the "maybe best" case and 90 in the "maybe typical" case, you get a full Mk XII set that today would take somewhere between 3 to infinity runs to obtain (with many people experiencing 100-150 runs before getting a full set and some doing 300+ and still don't have it).
Are PWE's flagship games loosing players and the ones remaining spending less than before? I've heard that elsewhere but hadn't confirmed it. People say that the gambling and lockbox games work so well in asia because their cultures are different.... all I know is feeling ripped off crosses cultural and national borders!
I think the real concern are the western ports of PW's flagship games.
And I've come to realize, it's not the cultures directly. It's the demographics.
The most common person in the world, demographically, is something like a 25 year old Chinese male. If that's your target, you can afford high churn.
To match that level of churn that's sustainable when targeting 25 year old Chinese males would require you to come up with the population of North America every 12 months.
Now where culture comes in is when you factor in education, income, and social networks.
In China, you get the education that the schools have pigeonholed you into. They have the best scores but they get the best scores by dropping the underperforming students and placing people with their aptitude. This has many negative affects but many positive ones as well and is a source of massive difference.
Another big difference is the social network factor. I think we're really much more connected in some ways here and bad word of mouth spreads. In China, there are many divisions between people based on ethnic group, class, and geography. It's easy to target something at a wide audience there while still relying on the idea that tanking with one group of people won't have a viral impact.
I think in the west, you need to hold onto the same customers MUCH longer and MUCH harder and keep the average audience member MUCH more satisfied to keep bad word of mouth from spreading.
I also think that due to differences in intellectual property, westerners are much more brand conscious (having a "monopoly" on the Star Trek license helps Cryptic here more whereas in China, everybody can make up their own IPs more) and much more detail/story oriented when it comes to story whereas a Chinese market will be more demanding regarding the systems/stability/polish/visual appeal.
That quote sorely reminds me of the recent LTS "upgrade" .
I don't think that Cryptic was altogether in the wrong there but I do think failing to anticipate or care what people's responses were IS part of the same problem.
It's the "What have you done for us lately?" effect. They always talk about new players, new players, new players. It makes me wonder what their turnover is.
A lot of MMOs have high turnover.
A little birdie told me once that WoW has massive turnover in 3-4 month cycles and that the 9/10/12 million figures were all "on a good month." Probably about a third of that are North American accounts too. But here's the trick I think Cryptic missed about that.
WoW is turning over the same 20 million people in cycles. It isn't actually "new players, new players, new players." It's juggling old players for the most part and has been since about 2006 or 2007. It does well when it juggles more. It does poorly when it juggles less.
Full on expansions generally add to the juggling pool and subtract from it. TBC and WotLK added to the juggling pool more than they subtracted. Cata and MoP subtracted more players than they've added. (And the year long sub deal for Diablo III exploited this trick to keep some of the juggling players steady to inflate the total numbers.)
Unless I am mistaken, Borticus and the rest of the team are banking on you having the EDCs, salvage and whatever else you have accumulated from those many STFs still, soon to be converted into Omega Marks. These marks you can then apply to your desire to the Reputation system in order to bump up your rep.
(snip)
So save that junk, boys and girls (and invited transgendered species)!
I interpreted this differently .
Consider that if have played a lot of STF's thus far and you have a large chunk of EDCs salvage and whatever , then you have two choices :
a) wait and have Season 7 converted it all for you into STF marks .
In this case you'll be ahead of the curve in the Omega Reputation system (you will not start out as a n00b) , yet at the end of the day you will still have to grind some to get all your STF Marks and on top of that you will still have to pay Dill to get ur stuff .
b) you can convert all your extra EDCs salvage and whatever into Dil now .
In this case , you'll start in the Omega Rep system as a n00b and you will have to grind the full curve to get to the desired gear -- however , because you now have the Dill that you got for your stuff , you have to pay less Dill out of your own "pocket" toward the STF gear of your choice .
In short , if I'm correct , long time STF players (who still have EDCs salvage and whatever) will have a choice as to how they wish to proceed in completing their full sets .
Either convert your EDCs salvage and whatever into Dil now and pay the Rep System less Dil later .
Or , have the system covert your EDCs salvage and whatever into STF Marks and pay more Dil later .
a) wait and have Season 7 converted it all for you into STF marks .
In this case you'll be ahead of the curve in the Omega Reputation system (you will not start out as a n00b) , yet at the end of the day you will still have to grind some to get all your STF Marks and on top of that you will still have to pay Dill to get ur stuff .
b) you can convert all your extra EDCs salvage and whatever into Dil now .
In this case , you'll start in the Omega Rep system as a n00b and you will have to grind the full curve to get to the desired gear -- however , because you now have the Dill that you got for your stuff , you have to pay less Dill out of your own "pocket" toward the STF gear of your choice .
In short , if I'm correct , long time STF players (who still have EDCs salvage and whatever) will have a choice as to how they wish to proceed in completing their full sets .
Either convert your EDCs salvage and whatever into Dil now and pay the rep System less Dil later .
Or , have the system covert your EDCs salvage and whatever into STF Marks and pay more Dil later .
Not going to matter if you are a "n00b", or a veteran who have freshly converted Marks. Because the Reputation system has a 1 day project time. Only grace is that you may not have to do any STFs on that character for a while.
Still it's awfully insulting of those people who not finished completing their MK12 sets, because they will have to wait months to unlock them and then pay tens of thousands of Dilithium to complete the sets and equip any MK12 weaponry they needed.
Got to love how Cryptic treats its supporters. Nothing spells business success than spitting on the customers. :rolleyes:
Either convert your EDCs salvage and whatever into Dil now and pay the Rep System less Dil later .
Or , have the system covert your EDCs salvage and whatever into STF Marks and pay more Dil later .
Only problem is is that Cryptic is saying current STF currencies are worthless once you have your gear.
Again, Cryptic is saying your STF currency is WORTHLESS once you have acquired your gear. On page 35 of this thread, I showed how STF currency isn't worthless, but they're making it worthless.
I am forseeing the cost of Zen increasing when Season 7 comes out because of the increased Dil costs for several sections of the game. This means Cryptic will be turning your currently valuable STF currencies into valueless currencies.
Encrypted Data Chips to Dil = 105.8 Dil = 0.668 Zen or $0.00668 | EDCs to Energy Credits = 25,000 EC | Master Key = 125 Zen or 1,4m EC | 190 EDCs = 126.9 Zen | 70 EDCs = 1,4m EC
Only problem is is that Cryptic is saying current STF currencies are worthless once you have your gear.
Again, Cryptic is saying your STF currency is WORTHLESS once you have acquired your gear. On page 35 of this thread, I showed how STF currency isn't worthless, but they're making it worthless.
I am forseeing the cost of Zen increasing when Season 7 comes out because of the increased Dil costs for several sections of the game. This means Cryptic will be turning your currently valuable STF currencies into valueless currencies.
Are you factoring in the new purchasing power of Dil relative to ZEN?
It should be the cost of Dilithium that will go up, probably from about 1:158 to maybe 1:50.
That said, I expect a dramatic reduction in the volume of transactions, causing Cryptic to lose money even though it's more ZEN per dil.
As noted, the Dilithium prices have been increased, yes. Please leave your feedback on this in this thread or the Tribble forums.
Again, constructive feedback is welcome and the devs are watching this thread
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Ok so here's my feedback
The fact that crafting something decent costs around 15K dilithium, less of course if you wait till the magic hour, and you can only refine at most 8.5K a day is silly to me, especially when so much costs dilithium. Why not maybe increase the refinement cap to say 15k for silver, 20k for gold, and 30k for lifers. I don't even really consider it worth it to use the veteran refiner as it is, two days is a long time to wait for a measly 1000 dilithium
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
As a casual player (ok, a casual player with too much time on his hands), this looks like it won't be worth the hassle. I've got my 2 mkxii space sets, so why should I go through the whole hassle?
I'm thinking it might be best to buy some more mkxii energy types now, convert my other stuff into dil and watch people burn out all around me. Just like I've seen people, particularly in smaller fleets, burn out on starbases somewhere between tiers 1 and 3.
Also, considering what I see in other games, I'm starting to doubt whether I'm happy with the way MMO's are developing. I haven't played a whole lot, but it seems the entire market is going downhill, and any alternatives I'd consider seem to have similar systems in place, or are developing them. I considered Guild Wars 2, but seeing as they also turn out to have a lockbox-system, that doesn't bode well either, disappointingly.
I'm tempted to just keep my eye out for co-op-capable and single player games instead, where you just buy a game for 5-50 euro/dollar/pound play it for some time, then move on. And maybe get back to it after some time, seeing as you own it anyway.
In these game types, developers don't try to keep innovating their existing games, true. But what they do do, is make new games, which have to be good as well, or they won't make enough sales. The companies backing those developers are forced to choose for quality, or they'll lose their investments. In that system, the only tools for making money, longterm, are quality and PR/advertising, a opposed to grind-mechanisms and delayed gratification.
Then again, considering the sheer amount of time I've spent on Total War: Rome, I'll be set when Rome II launches anyway, and I suspect I won't be looking back on my MMO's with much more than nostalgia.
I don't want to imagine what over monetized monstrosity NW could turn out to be.
If it's not like that from the get-go , it will get there eventually .
I mean they won't want to sour the milk at the get-go ... , on the long term however ... (/takes a look at STO's last 3 seasons/) .
Yeah ... .
an STF to the heart of the Borg collective where players just magically appear a few corridors from the Borg Queen . Where's my epic space battle Cryptic??!!
Not going to matter if you are a "n00b", or a veteran who have freshly converted Marks.
But ... being a "veteran" who has have freshly converted Marks (from EDCs salvage and whatever) -- does that not supposedly put you closer to whatever your goal is (most likely some gear piece) ?
Are you saying that ppl who have had EDCs salvage and whatever converted into STF Marks and ppl who have not will start at the same point in the new Rep Sysem ?
That just does not make any sense .
This recent move by PWE/Cryptic has certainly left a bitter, disgusting taste in the mouths of many players who have been here since the early days. To fully understand why we feel this way, you have to look as the situation through our perspective.
We were the foundation for which this game has built itself upon. Without us, there would have been no game.
We paid for this game. Literally. I remember people buying multiple copies of the retail boxed version of STO for the special items that they came with. Each vendor had a special item you can claim through the c-store. People bought multiple copies @ $50 a piece (regular) or $90 a piece (collector's), on top of a subscription (monthly or LTS). In the very beginning, when there was only a promise of a Star Trek game, we made this commitment and have stuck with it ever since. Free to play is only 9 months old. There were no gold and silver players before that. We were all subscribers. We paid to play the game you enjoy for free today. Without the initial investment and the ongoing commitment of many other players, Atari then Cryptic then PWE wouldn't have had the resources to continue let alone expand the game to where it is today.
We dedicated ourselves to this game. We invested countless hours running missions and exploring the game, all the while identifying issues, bugs and other areas that needed improvement so the game could become better. People usually get paid for their time to do this. We did it for them and we paid them for the pleasure of doing it for them. We paid to play this game, which upon release was barebones. We paid to play this incomplete game and had to time after time report issues for the dev team to fix. We provided feedback and suggestions for the dev teams time and time again. We dedicated ourselves to a to this dream of a game; the very game that many of you ***** and moan about, yet play for free. Sure there will always be bugs. There will always be something to fix. But we put in the time and the money so we could make this a better, more enjoyable experience.
We played the game when there was no game. Imagine leveling a klingon from level 1-40 with nothing except PVP. Yup, we did it. We created our own fun. In the long droughts where there was no new content, we endured it. Many paid to endure it. The game simply did not stop during that year when there was nothing to do. People still played and they paid to do so. We've seen the content come and go. We beta tested this content for you, so you wouldn't have to deal with all the bugs and issues that we had to deal with. We spent time developing our characters. We didn't reach level 50 in one weekend. Levels took time to achieve. It took patience and dedication. We actually had to do all the sector block missions in addition to the story line to make rank. We played everything, because frankly, we had to in order to progress.
All in all, it is about the Vet Rewards and it isn't about the Vet Rewards. The reason why most of us are mad is because of how we're being treated. These Vet Rewards were something that made us special. Something that differentiated us from all the rest. It was their way of saying thank you to us vets for all the reasons listed above and more. Sure, the rewards themselves aren't the issue. It's the lack of acknowledgement, recognition and overall thanks from both the company and the players that we've seen. Some of us are mad, but most of us are just simply hurt. We just want to hold onto something that makes us special. We're not entitled brats with selfish motives. We have a legitimate reason to feel hurt and betrayed.
We truly loved this game. We truly love the franchise. Why else would we have stuck around for so long? For many of us, this game has been our work in progress. It has been our second homes and our sanctuary. So excuse us as we fume while the house we built is being foreclosed on and our sanctuary pillaged.
how long will it last if they keep pissing off core groups of people?
to name a few:
1. the entire klingon faction (all 16% of us) - neglected time and time again
2. people who love pvp - broken, boring and what's the point?
3. longtime subscribers - lack of recognition and acknowledgement
4. short term subscribers - why even bother anymore?
whose next on the list?
1. small fleets - t5 and beyond starbases unobtainable
2. large fleets - cstore purchasable t5 and beyond starbases
3. dedicated pvers - increased wait for significant, playable and fun content
4. lock box ship owners - account bound and purchasable from cstore
5. fans - with holding ships/features that you love; or worse off butchering it
6. the rest of you - when the game finally shuts down because it's no longer profitable
I love this game too much to quit. I know that there are quite a few of you out there that are on the edge. do as you must, but i'd urge you to stay for the sheer pleasure of seeing the other shoe drop. You know it's going to happen.
Those who will cry out will cry out for all the same reasons. Those who applaud it will either benefit from it or will be that indifferent about it. however, everyone has a breaking point and when your button gets pushed, you then will know how it felt. it's called karma. either way, dstahl and his chinese overlords are laughing their way to the bank.
so feel free to not care today. feel free to fan the flames. i just hope that when the tables are turned, that you will not become as jaded as i am towards the company and the community that i am. i also hope that people will be more compassionate towards your plight than they have ours.
No, it really isn't. Here's the numbers you're not seeing:
A full set of Mk XII Gear costs 3000 Marks, 15 Elite Marks, and ~100,000 Dilithium.
Attaining Tier 5 in Omega Rep costs 1,686 Marks, 0 Elite Marks, and ~80,000 Dilithium.
People that have already obtained a full set of the Mk XII gear of their choosing no longer have the need to spend the currency listed in above. In fact, along the way to obtaining that gear, it's incredibly likely that they've picked up a good chunk of EDCs, Salvage and Tech, all of which they have no use for (because they already have their desired gear), and will all be converted into Omega Marks which now have a purpose for them, should they choose to use them.
Their extra 'reward' is the fact that the system will cost them less. Considering the prices involved here, that's not something to be ignored.
And WHAT are Elite Marks now?
+1 currency,
and it sounds rare / hard to get
by now i wouldn't put it past you guys to sell those in the C-Store...
//edit:
ah ok found the answer in another dev tracker quote just now
you get 1 Elite Mark for running 1 Elite STFs
got it.
hmm 15 sounds rather low in that case.
make it 50 per XII Set item and that will sound about right compared to the old *random* system.
keep in mind it doesn't even matter if you play space or ground now... so no 50x CGE to get the Weapon.
15 Elite runs, i do that in 2 slow afternoons, that means one full Set per week and not even grinding for it.
The 3 Sets i have took weeks and weeks and weeks.
But ... being a "veteran" who has have freshly converted Marks (from EDCs salvage and whatever) -- does that not supposedly put you closer to whatever your goal is (most likely some gear piece) ?
Are you saying that ppl who have had EDCs salvage and whatever converted into STF Marks and ppl who have not will start at the same point in the new Rep Sysem ?
That just does not make any sense .
Everyone starts at 0 XP.
N00b does STFs and earns 20 Marks for the Project, enters the costs, and waits 1 day.
Veteran players who have converted marks, enters the project costs, waits 1 day.
It's the same.
Only thing a Veteran can benefit is that he wouldn't need to do STFs for a while (still don't know the conversion rate to the new Omega Marks).
Exactly. It's like a restaurant reheating leftovers and taking everyone's plate away while they're still eating to roll out the new menu with clearer pricing. Then saying, "Well, it's fair for everyone who wasn't here for the last meal and you still ate what you ate."
I wouldn't eat at a restaurant that did this. Nobody would.
I refuse to believe anybody internally at Cryptic finds this reasonable unless they have part of their brain turned off.
Well if you look at the most recent dev posts... I used to have a lot of respect for many devs, but it looks like they've embraced PWE's corporate thinking. They can be very nice people IRL but I think they'll loose a lot of esteem in the playerbase for their current way to do things.
Saying that this new system will make getting rewards easier for everyone is ignoring that:
- if the devs who tested the system don't care about their dilithium ressources, we do.
- removing the previous random loot system and existing STF stores to force people to use the new dilthium stores doesn't make it easier, it's just here to make the prices higher. If we could use any of the two systems at our convenience to get the existing stuff (and not the new one) no one would ever complain but they don't get that - or they got it and think it's not profitable enough.
They can't even pretend they play the game, since they won't care about what is important to us.
With all due respect to everyone here. The full Season 7 build isn't even on Tribble yet! Before everyone starts marching to Cryptics HQ with pitchforks and torches shall we actually see what the facts are before giving in to wild speculation?
Looking for a dedicated Star Trek community? Visit www.ufplanets.com for details.
With all due respect to everyone here. The full Season 7 build isn't even on Tribble yet! Before everyone starts marching to Cryptics HQ with pitchforks and torches shall we actually see what the facts are before giving in to wild speculation?
With all due respect, we have been in this place before.
Every other time, what is on tribble WILL be going live. Trust me
With all due respect to everyone here. The full Season 7 build isn't even on Tribble yet! Before everyone starts marching to Cryptics HQ with pitchforks and torches shall we actually see what the facts are before giving in to wild speculation?
Its not "SPECULATION," its a projection of the future. Its what poster darkenzedd posted, what usually hit Tribble, historically lands on LIVE, however; This time it seems like its landing on all our heads.
Truth be told I do not like the new Omega mark unofficial currency - simply because the STF were liken to an End game dungeon in which you were able to receive those very rare drops.
This so called new system basically places a real dollar price tag on the very rare drops, because now one can simply buy the much needed Dilithium via Zen. This also devalues the end game dungeons.
Basically in a nut shell there is now real dollar behind it regardless if you farm the Dilithium or not. The option there is to buy D at any time. The Omega Marks are simply a make shift proxy to the wholesale process.
I wouldn't mind it if the Mk XII Elite gear was pushed into the D Store and a new set was place in the dungeons and obtain the traditional way. However; this does not seem to be the case.
Once again another broken promise from Cryptic in regards to NEW sets replacing the old ones in cosmetic looks only.
I do not like the way this has turned out, the cost of the sets is waaaay to high at 100k D, and these end game dungeon should traditionally drop the sets for free, like most "Normal" MMO's do.
Wow... Talk about shooting one selves in the proverbial foot...
I can't believe what PWE is doing here is allowed by CBS at all. CBS should be stopping PWE right now, before the entire game is sucked into a black hole, never to be heard of again....
100K dil for an entire Mk XII set?? what are they THINKING???
Seriously Cryptic, rethink this one before our beloved STO goes the way of the dodo....
The more I see Cryptic & PWE putting Dil prices on items that originally didn't have them, taking Dil rewards out of missions, "slowing down" progression to compensate for lack of content (aka, more grinding), putting time gated events in, & nerfing OR splitting items/item sets for the purpose of "forcing the hands" of players to "play as intended" ... The more likely I am to take my money & go elsewhere.
I'm going to be completely honest here: I'm getting real fed up with the clear sense that PWE & now Cryptic have little to no respect for its playerbase (aka, the people who ultimately pay their bills). I had no problem throwing money at this game when I believed the Devs were actually trying to make a game to be enjoyed. Now, this game feels more like a 2nd job with no real-life benefit. I chose not to grind for certain items simply because my time IS valuable to me. When it felt like there was a choice between time or paying money, I could live with that. Now, it's a decent amount of money on top of a great deal amount of time.
Combine that with bugs that have YET to be fixed, content that has been promised but isn't even being talked about now, time gating rewards (which, to me, is like Devs telling players they have to schedule their lives around a video game ... I'd laugh if it wasn't so insulting), degrading instability to even play the game, virtually asking for the opinions of its playerbase ONLY to do the opposite ... speaking only for myself, even though I know many others feel as I do, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
Honestly, Devs, do you really expect this game to survive at this rate? Quote me your internal figures & observations all you like, as what you're saying & what I'm seeing/feeling don't match. STO was the first MMO I ever played, ONLY because I enjoy Star Trek. When it gets to the point where you make a honored franchise look bad, & actually start turning off fans to that franchise, you REALLY need to look at what you're doing.
"If your conscience is bothering you, you should sooth it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the ENTIRE Alpha Quadrant. And all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, & the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I call that a bargain." - Elim Garak
I can still buy stf gear for EDCs, salvage, tech on tribble. They have also not pushed the reputation system... so once again please back up your claims.
thats because they haven't done the conversion yet
No, it really isn't. Here's the numbers you're not seeing:
A full set of Mk XII Gear costs 3000 Marks, 15 Elite Marks, and ~100,000 Dilithium.
Attaining Tier 5 in Omega Rep costs 1,686 Marks, 0 Elite Marks, and ~80,000 Dilithium.
People that have already obtained a full set of the Mk XII gear of their choosing no longer have the need to spend the currency listed in above. In fact, along the way to obtaining that gear, it's incredibly likely that they've picked up a good chunk of EDCs, Salvage and Tech, all of which they have no use for (because they already have their desired gear), and will all be converted into Omega Marks which now have a purpose for them, should they choose to use them.
Their extra 'reward' is the fact that the system will cost them less. Considering the prices involved here, that's not something to be ignored.
Comments
Are PWE's flagship games loosing players and the ones remaining spending less than before? I've heard that elsewhere but hadn't confirmed it. People say that the gambling and lockbox games work so well in asia because their cultures are different.... all I know is feeling ripped off crosses cultural and national borders!
I hope its true, the sooner self destructive behavior is noticed the sooner it can be stopped. I doubt PWE is the type of company to do that though... what I see happening is them trying to aggressively shift their games to new markets like the Americas and Europe. This may in fact be the reason why they bought Cryptic in the first place, to give them a foot in the door and help them figure out how to move their games over to new markets faster and with less hassle... I don't want to imagine what over monetized monstrosity NW could turn out to be. Ah well, wasn't going to get involved in any more PWE games anyway. I'm pretty sad lockboxes and "lobi" made it to CO already
S7 was when we finally got content and story again!... yay?... anything about the story or content mentioned so far? All i've heard are rumblings about repeatable maps for marks that are no better than what came in S6... and an STF to the heart of the Borg collective where players just magically appear a few corridors from the Borg Queen
3k Marks / 60 Marks per run = 50 runs... 3 runs per day -> ~17 days.
15 Elite Marks / 1 Elite Mark per run = 15 runs... 3 runs per day -> 5 days... let's come back to this one.
100k Dil / 1.1k Dil per run = ~91 runs... 3 runs per day -> ~30 days...
BUT Elite Marks can also be traded in for Dil... since you currently get 2 EDCs per Elite run and 10 EDCs can be traded in for 1056 Dil, each Elite run is worth ~211 Dil... assuming an Elite Mark will be worth that made (big assumption), that makes each Elite run (after the 15th) worth 1.311k Dil, and would require ~64 runs ((100k Dil - 15 runs * 1.1k Dil/run) / 1.311k/run-after-15th-) + 15 runs = 79 runs... @ 3 per day -> ~26 days.
FWIW, if Elite Marks are worth 1.1k each, that reduces the # of runs to get the required Dil from 79 to 53... @ 3 runs per day -> ~18 days, roughly the same as the Mark requirement.
Of course, there is an opportunity cost to this new grind (lost time from doing other (STO) things, loss of use of Dil for other Dil/Zen purchases), but what I am seeing is this is the price to pay for "cost certainty": if you complete any combination of a certain amount of elite STFs (with optional), which looks to be 50 in the "maybe best" case and 90 in the "maybe typical" case, you get a full Mk XII set that today would take somewhere between 3 to infinity runs to obtain (with many people experiencing 100-150 runs before getting a full set and some doing 300+ and still don't have it).
Cmdr @Intricated
Medical Division, Alpha Squad
12th Fleet
That quote sorely reminds me of the recent LTS "upgrade" .
I think the real concern are the western ports of PW's flagship games.
And I've come to realize, it's not the cultures directly. It's the demographics.
The most common person in the world, demographically, is something like a 25 year old Chinese male. If that's your target, you can afford high churn.
To match that level of churn that's sustainable when targeting 25 year old Chinese males would require you to come up with the population of North America every 12 months.
Now where culture comes in is when you factor in education, income, and social networks.
In China, you get the education that the schools have pigeonholed you into. They have the best scores but they get the best scores by dropping the underperforming students and placing people with their aptitude. This has many negative affects but many positive ones as well and is a source of massive difference.
Another big difference is the social network factor. I think we're really much more connected in some ways here and bad word of mouth spreads. In China, there are many divisions between people based on ethnic group, class, and geography. It's easy to target something at a wide audience there while still relying on the idea that tanking with one group of people won't have a viral impact.
I think in the west, you need to hold onto the same customers MUCH longer and MUCH harder and keep the average audience member MUCH more satisfied to keep bad word of mouth from spreading.
I also think that due to differences in intellectual property, westerners are much more brand conscious (having a "monopoly" on the Star Trek license helps Cryptic here more whereas in China, everybody can make up their own IPs more) and much more detail/story oriented when it comes to story whereas a Chinese market will be more demanding regarding the systems/stability/polish/visual appeal.
I don't think that Cryptic was altogether in the wrong there but I do think failing to anticipate or care what people's responses were IS part of the same problem.
It's the "What have you done for us lately?" effect. They always talk about new players, new players, new players. It makes me wonder what their turnover is.
A lot of MMOs have high turnover.
A little birdie told me once that WoW has massive turnover in 3-4 month cycles and that the 9/10/12 million figures were all "on a good month." Probably about a third of that are North American accounts too. But here's the trick I think Cryptic missed about that.
WoW is turning over the same 20 million people in cycles. It isn't actually "new players, new players, new players." It's juggling old players for the most part and has been since about 2006 or 2007. It does well when it juggles more. It does poorly when it juggles less.
Full on expansions generally add to the juggling pool and subtract from it. TBC and WotLK added to the juggling pool more than they subtracted. Cata and MoP subtracted more players than they've added. (And the year long sub deal for Diablo III exploited this trick to keep some of the juggling players steady to inflate the total numbers.)
I interpreted this differently .
Consider that if have played a lot of STF's thus far and you have a large chunk of EDCs salvage and whatever , then you have two choices :
a) wait and have Season 7 converted it all for you into STF marks .
In this case you'll be ahead of the curve in the Omega Reputation system (you will not start out as a n00b) , yet at the end of the day you will still have to grind some to get all your STF Marks and on top of that you will still have to pay Dill to get ur stuff .
b) you can convert all your extra EDCs salvage and whatever into Dil now .
In this case , you'll start in the Omega Rep system as a n00b and you will have to grind the full curve to get to the desired gear -- however , because you now have the Dill that you got for your stuff , you have to pay less Dill out of your own "pocket" toward the STF gear of your choice .
In short , if I'm correct , long time STF players (who still have EDCs salvage and whatever) will have a choice as to how they wish to proceed in completing their full sets .
Either convert your EDCs salvage and whatever into Dil now and pay the Rep System less Dil later .
Or , have the system covert your EDCs salvage and whatever into STF Marks and pay more Dil later .
Not going to matter if you are a "n00b", or a veteran who have freshly converted Marks. Because the Reputation system has a 1 day project time. Only grace is that you may not have to do any STFs on that character for a while.
Still it's awfully insulting of those people who not finished completing their MK12 sets, because they will have to wait months to unlock them and then pay tens of thousands of Dilithium to complete the sets and equip any MK12 weaponry they needed.
Got to love how Cryptic treats its supporters. Nothing spells business success than spitting on the customers. :rolleyes:
Only problem is is that Cryptic is saying current STF currencies are worthless once you have your gear.
Again, Cryptic is saying your STF currency is WORTHLESS once you have acquired your gear. On page 35 of this thread, I showed how STF currency isn't worthless, but they're making it worthless.
I am forseeing the cost of Zen increasing when Season 7 comes out because of the increased Dil costs for several sections of the game. This means Cryptic will be turning your currently valuable STF currencies into valueless currencies.
Are you factoring in the new purchasing power of Dil relative to ZEN?
It should be the cost of Dilithium that will go up, probably from about 1:158 to maybe 1:50.
That said, I expect a dramatic reduction in the volume of transactions, causing Cryptic to lose money even though it's more ZEN per dil.
Ok so here's my feedback
The fact that crafting something decent costs around 15K dilithium, less of course if you wait till the magic hour, and you can only refine at most 8.5K a day is silly to me, especially when so much costs dilithium. Why not maybe increase the refinement cap to say 15k for silver, 20k for gold, and 30k for lifers. I don't even really consider it worth it to use the veteran refiner as it is, two days is a long time to wait for a measly 1000 dilithium
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
IF YOU ARE READING MY SIG - THEN YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG
I'm thinking it might be best to buy some more mkxii energy types now, convert my other stuff into dil and watch people burn out all around me. Just like I've seen people, particularly in smaller fleets, burn out on starbases somewhere between tiers 1 and 3.
Also, considering what I see in other games, I'm starting to doubt whether I'm happy with the way MMO's are developing. I haven't played a whole lot, but it seems the entire market is going downhill, and any alternatives I'd consider seem to have similar systems in place, or are developing them. I considered Guild Wars 2, but seeing as they also turn out to have a lockbox-system, that doesn't bode well either, disappointingly.
I'm tempted to just keep my eye out for co-op-capable and single player games instead, where you just buy a game for 5-50 euro/dollar/pound play it for some time, then move on. And maybe get back to it after some time, seeing as you own it anyway.
In these game types, developers don't try to keep innovating their existing games, true. But what they do do, is make new games, which have to be good as well, or they won't make enough sales. The companies backing those developers are forced to choose for quality, or they'll lose their investments. In that system, the only tools for making money, longterm, are quality and PR/advertising, a opposed to grind-mechanisms and delayed gratification.
Then again, considering the sheer amount of time I've spent on Total War: Rome, I'll be set when Rome II launches anyway, and I suspect I won't be looking back on my MMO's with much more than nostalgia.
If it's not like that from the get-go , it will get there eventually .
I mean they won't want to sour the milk at the get-go ... , on the long term however ... (/takes a look at STO's last 3 seasons/) .
Yeah ... .
Gone with the Goz ... .
But ... being a "veteran" who has have freshly converted Marks (from EDCs salvage and whatever) -- does that not supposedly put you closer to whatever your goal is (most likely some gear piece) ?
Are you saying that ppl who have had EDCs salvage and whatever converted into STF Marks and ppl who have not will start at the same point in the new Rep Sysem ?
That just does not make any sense .
and...
welcome to the next demographic of people that becomes needlessly shafted for no good reason. thanks for playing.
And WHAT are Elite Marks now?
+1 currency,
and it sounds rare / hard to get
by now i wouldn't put it past you guys to sell those in the C-Store...
//edit:
ah ok found the answer in another dev tracker quote just now
you get 1 Elite Mark for running 1 Elite STFs
got it.
hmm 15 sounds rather low in that case.
make it 50 per XII Set item and that will sound about right compared to the old *random* system.
keep in mind it doesn't even matter if you play space or ground now... so no 50x CGE to get the Weapon.
15 Elite runs, i do that in 2 slow afternoons, that means one full Set per week and not even grinding for it.
The 3 Sets i have took weeks and weeks and weeks.
Everyone starts at 0 XP.
N00b does STFs and earns 20 Marks for the Project, enters the costs, and waits 1 day.
Veteran players who have converted marks, enters the project costs, waits 1 day.
It's the same.
Only thing a Veteran can benefit is that he wouldn't need to do STFs for a while (still don't know the conversion rate to the new Omega Marks).
Well if you look at the most recent dev posts... I used to have a lot of respect for many devs, but it looks like they've embraced PWE's corporate thinking. They can be very nice people IRL but I think they'll loose a lot of esteem in the playerbase for their current way to do things.
Saying that this new system will make getting rewards easier for everyone is ignoring that:
- if the devs who tested the system don't care about their dilithium ressources, we do.
- removing the previous random loot system and existing STF stores to force people to use the new dilthium stores doesn't make it easier, it's just here to make the prices higher. If we could use any of the two systems at our convenience to get the existing stuff (and not the new one) no one would ever complain but they don't get that - or they got it and think it's not profitable enough.
They can't even pretend they play the game, since they won't care about what is important to us.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Looking for a dedicated Star Trek community? Visit www.ufplanets.com for details.
With all due respect, we have been in this place before.
Every other time, what is on tribble WILL be going live. Trust me
Its not "SPECULATION," its a projection of the future. Its what poster darkenzedd posted, what usually hit Tribble, historically lands on LIVE, however; This time it seems like its landing on all our heads.
Truth be told I do not like the new Omega mark unofficial currency - simply because the STF were liken to an End game dungeon in which you were able to receive those very rare drops.
This so called new system basically places a real dollar price tag on the very rare drops, because now one can simply buy the much needed Dilithium via Zen. This also devalues the end game dungeons.
Basically in a nut shell there is now real dollar behind it regardless if you farm the Dilithium or not. The option there is to buy D at any time. The Omega Marks are simply a make shift proxy to the wholesale process.
I wouldn't mind it if the Mk XII Elite gear was pushed into the D Store and a new set was place in the dungeons and obtain the traditional way. However; this does not seem to be the case.
Once again another broken promise from Cryptic in regards to NEW sets replacing the old ones in cosmetic looks only.
I do not like the way this has turned out, the cost of the sets is waaaay to high at 100k D, and these end game dungeon should traditionally drop the sets for free, like most "Normal" MMO's do.
I can't believe what PWE is doing here is allowed by CBS at all. CBS should be stopping PWE right now, before the entire game is sucked into a black hole, never to be heard of again....
100K dil for an entire Mk XII set?? what are they THINKING???
Seriously Cryptic, rethink this one before our beloved STO goes the way of the dodo....
Bad Cryptic is bad!!! :mad::mad::mad:
Ok , thanks , I understand now .
I'm going to be completely honest here: I'm getting real fed up with the clear sense that PWE & now Cryptic have little to no respect for its playerbase (aka, the people who ultimately pay their bills). I had no problem throwing money at this game when I believed the Devs were actually trying to make a game to be enjoyed. Now, this game feels more like a 2nd job with no real-life benefit. I chose not to grind for certain items simply because my time IS valuable to me. When it felt like there was a choice between time or paying money, I could live with that. Now, it's a decent amount of money on top of a great deal amount of time.
Combine that with bugs that have YET to be fixed, content that has been promised but isn't even being talked about now, time gating rewards (which, to me, is like Devs telling players they have to schedule their lives around a video game ... I'd laugh if it wasn't so insulting), degrading instability to even play the game, virtually asking for the opinions of its playerbase ONLY to do the opposite ... speaking only for myself, even though I know many others feel as I do, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
Honestly, Devs, do you really expect this game to survive at this rate? Quote me your internal figures & observations all you like, as what you're saying & what I'm seeing/feeling don't match. STO was the first MMO I ever played, ONLY because I enjoy Star Trek. When it gets to the point where you make a honored franchise look bad, & actually start turning off fans to that franchise, you REALLY need to look at what you're doing.
thats because they haven't done the conversion yet
Hmm...I think this sums it up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA18gjrZ7vw
Fleet Admiral
The 2nd Fleet
Second To None!
Where?
I lold
But sadly true.
Every time Cryptic decided to "change" the curencies we got ******* over bad.
Sadly they think this will get em more cash. Hopefully sooner or later theyll be proven wrong... that they have gone a bridge too far :cool:
Amen! :cool: