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Skyrocketing Costs and Gear Nerfing Threaten to Force Me Out

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  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Considering the massive changes in cost in aquiring doffs I will be setting up a new fleet "The Ferengi Doff Consortium"

    Using our knowledge of the doff system, the exchange and the Rules of Acquisition our goal as a fleet will be to maintain control over doff prices on the exchange which are in the most demand for starbase projects.

    Increasing prices mean more profit and we will bleed them dry

    If you have a Ferengi toon, extensive doffing and exchange knowledge, plus are interesting in making billions of EC please send me a note.
  • luxchristianluxchristian Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    There are lots of other issues that are passing by - Investigate officer reports - and the console clicking issue - will it be remove? so take that 2 min 1440 dilth away?

    The removal of free doffs from the academey and the MASSIVE increase in doff grinding price

    5 common to 1 green - going from 10 dilth currently to 500 dilth

    5 green to 1 blue - 50 current to 2500!!

    5 blue to 1 purple 250 current to 5000!!

    Plus there are lots of other changes that are lurking

    The 2min clicker for 1440 is not the problem. But the 2min clickrr for the fleet marks sucks xD Who wants to grind the boring, laggy fleet missions?


    With the removal of the free doffs from the academey will prevent a lot of fleets getting their starbase to Tier5.
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    The problem is that you used to get EDCs and dil AND a chance at a drop in addition to a chance at prototypes or normal salvages which would also hand out dil.

    Where as now you are using the dil you get, don't EDC's and no chance of drops.

    But more than 3 incomes are now 3 deficits no one is asking what are we actually grinding for.

    And so I've been told it's the same gear we already wearing. Not one single piece of new armor.

    So basically we playing the same maps for the same items only now you have to pay dilithium for it.

    5 gb's of "new content", basically it's just a conversion for people willing to pay cash for old items. When they said "new items" I never even imagined the possibility of recylcled armor with minor stats boosts.
    But look at the fleet system I guess I should have.

    And it's funny beacuse I was actually looking for something to grind for and I would be willing to do another 900 stf's IF I had least go something for it.
    Nothing would have fit me better than some new armor and some new skills. It could have been so great.

    But letting me pay dil for items I already have that's just crazy talk.
  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    The 2min clicker for 1440 is not the problem. But the 2min clickrr for the fleet marks sucks xD Who wants to grind the boring, laggy fleet missions?


    With the removal of the free doffs from the academey will prevent a lot of fleets getting their starbase to Tier5.

    Not to worry "The Ferengi Doff consortium" with the Help of the overlooked KDF will also branch into controlling the price of Contraband - at least doubling it in price to over 100k ec

    This of course will make aquiring dilth that much harder and more costly - but I am sure that Cryptic will take a "hear no evil, see no evil" approach to the Ferengi Doff Consortium making dilth harder to get.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    Considering the massive changes in cost in aquiring doffs I will be setting up a new fleet "The Ferengi Doff Consortium"

    Using our knowledge of the doff system, the exchange and the Rules of Acquisition our goal as a fleet will be to maintain control over doff prices on the exchange which are in the most demand for starbase projects.

    Increasing prices mean more profit and we will bleed them dry

    If you have a Ferengi toon, extensive doffing and exchange knowledge, plus are interesting in making billions of EC please send me a note.

    I don't need a fleet for that, I'm doingit on my own. I'm getting ready for season 7, at least my comprehensive knowledge of these systems will be more valuable.

    The academy pack sold for 1k dil is a shame but the doff grinders have very little use when you know the doff system.
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
  • sekritagentsekritagent Member Posts: 510 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Okay 54 days per set. Times two, for a space set and a ground set. Times however many alts you have. I have seven, as an example, so thats over 2 years of grind. For slightly better stats. Or I can just fork over $96 (at CURRENT rates) and buy all the needed dil and reduce (but still not eliminate) my grind.

    There is nothing in this game worth that much time or money to me. I can accept $25 for a ship thats account-wide and available immediately. I can even grudgingly accept 'the best gear in the game' coming as an absurdly rare random drop requiring a mind-numbing time investment. Requiring both is not okay. I dunno about quitting altogether, but I doubt I'll be restarting my STF grinds after this hits holodeck. Becomes just one more part of the game thats not for me.


    Emphasis mine.

    This, so much this. Like, an amazing amount of this. These guys are charging us exorbitant prices for a game and content that isn't good enough to warrant such prices. Keep in mind, the official story has barely moved forward in 3 years. "Into the Hive" didn't even HAVE a story, it was a straight up Foundry grind map.
    Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard? :(
  • psymantispsymantis Member Posts: 329 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    You're complaining that alts make the system expensive. You chose and accepted that cost by rolling up a new character. You don't deserve anything extra just because you chose to have more than one max-level character. Don't confuse the argument by using a variable that was introduced of your own choosing.

    Since people love bringing up other MMOs as examples, how about WoW's raid content? If you roll up an alt, do they automatically get free or discounted loot just because you spent months earning raid gear for your main toon? No. You work for it just the same.

    The real cost is that $96 you calculated out, divided by the seven toons you've chosen to level up, which equates to under $14. I know people that'd pay that to completely outfit one character in max-level gear, no problem. It's less than a single ship, as you pointed out.

    Except in a game like WoW it takes time to level up a character to max level. Here it takes such a stupidly short time the only way for the game to last is to make alts.

    As for the money, it costs nothing at the moment. How can you justify any extra cost?
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I actually thought about hogging some duty off. packs myself prior to s.7 but I don't know, how much is 1000 dil worth in ECs ?
    Maybe the higher level doff's are going to be harder to get, maybe not at all if sellers usually get them through assignments anyway. Maybe there are new ones in s. 7.

    Also there is the chance they might make them non sell-able after the patch.

    It's a gamble I think but since I don't have anything in the game I want anymore but a c-store costume piece, I might aswell throw at least a little attention after it and then take the hit if turns out bad.

    I won't be farming for old gear on maps I beat fresh on level 50 900 missions ago anyway, so what else is there to do

    Crafting ? :D
  • pantsmaster916pantsmaster916 Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    psymantis wrote: »
    As for the money, it costs nothing at the moment. How can you justify any extra cost?

    It still costs nothing, unless you choose to take a shortcut by paying. Just go earn Dilithium by running content. Who's forcing you to use the D-Exchange?
  • dan512dan512 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    No, it really isn't. Here's the numbers you're not seeing:

    A full set of Mk XII Gear costs 3000 Marks, 15 Elite Marks, and ~100,000 Dilithium.

    Attaining Tier 5 in Omega Rep costs 1,686 Marks, 0 Elite Marks, and ~80,000 Dilithium.

    People that have already obtained a full set of the Mk XII gear of their choosing no longer have the need to spend the currency listed in above. In fact, along the way to obtaining that gear, it's incredibly likely that they've picked up a good chunk of EDCs, Salvage and Tech, all of which they have no use for (because they already have their desired gear), and will all be converted into Omega Marks which now have a purpose for them, should they choose to use them.

    Their extra 'reward' is the fact that the system will cost them less. Considering the prices involved here, that's not something to be ignored.

    I dont remember having to spend any dilithium before.....
  • pantsmaster916pantsmaster916 Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    dan512 wrote: »
    I dont remember having to spend any dilithium before.....

    But you potentially spent a LOT of time. Months. Perhaps even more than a year. How much is that time worth to you?

    Dilithium IS Time in this game. The Devs have said that, and it's obviously been leveraged by them, and by us players.

    Under the new Rep system, they've eliminated the "Months or Years" grind to get STF Mk XII gear, and replaced it, partially, with a Dilithium cost. People that have a lot of time, and no money, can do that grind in what will most likely be less time than the old system took. And people with a lot of money can shortcut that system by buying Dilithium, because they don't have the time.

    Who does that hurt? People that have neither Money OR Time to spend. But really, I don't think they should expect to advance as quickly as a person that has either of the above in abundance.
  • linyivelinyive Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    "Star Trek: Online" has made me appreciate single-player offline games. After you drop $60 down on a single-player game, you get a much more fulfilling experience. I have spent over $150 dollars within a three month's period, and I have not seen a rewarding turn around.

    According to the latest Priority One, the progress we made in STFs will be thrown away. Regardless about how long you have played, Cryptic is going to steal your hard work, money, and progression. If that one simple act does not make you upset, the only thing you are doing is bending over for some more. Its that simple.
  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    linyive wrote: »
    "Star Trek: Online" has made me appreciate single-player offline games. After you drop $60 down on a single-player game, you get a much more fulfilling experience. I have spent over $150 dollars within a three month's period, and I have not seen a rewarding turn around.

    According to the latest Priority One, the progress we made in STFs will be thrown away. Regardless about how long you have played, Cryptic is going to steal your hard work, money, and progression. If that one simple act does not make you upset, the only thing you are doing is bending over for some more. Its that simple.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfzXpE0QB2U

    Chevy Chase at some of his best





    "thanks doc, did you ever serve time?!"
  • jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,803 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    The removal of free doffs from the academey and the MASSIVE increase in doff grinding price

    5 common to 1 green - going from 10 dilth currently to 500 dilth

    5 green to 1 blue - 50 current to 2500!!

    5 blue to 1 purple 250 current to 5000!!

    Plus there are lots of other changes that are lurking

    WAIT WHAT THE HELL IS THIS

    Where's the proper feedback section for this? I've got a bone to pick with this boneheaded decision and I want to put it where it belongs.

    I'm not spending forty-five minutes grinding for one purple doff upgrade that already comes at the cost of five rares. That's stupid and these price hikes are stupid and there had better be some damn solid reasoning behind this or I am going to flip so many tables.
  • edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    linyive wrote: »
    According to the latest Priority One, the progress we made in STFs will be thrown away. Regardless about how long you have played, Cryptic is going to steal your hard work, money, and progression. If that one simple act does not make you upset, the only thing you are doing is bending over for some more. Its that simple.


    So what you expect ,don't tell me you hoped they will consider those who played the hell out of those stfs and have all space and ground mk XII sets with optionals.They sold 1000 days of time in real world money thus making the old players and new players who cant find esd in sol system equal ...they moved an achievement to the garbage bin.

    Yes you can hope that one day they will remove your stuffs from inventory and call it "new improved item management" .
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    Well I refine about 100k dilth a day - was hoping to cut back - but I guess not.

    Jesus, I thought i was getting too obssesive by refining 48k per day on most days lol. Now I know I'm nowhere near as bad as some.
    I don't have a starbase to build up by myself so not as much incentive for me though.

    It is nice to know that if dil does get anywhere near 50 per zen, my 1mil+ dil I can bring in per month might get me just about everything from the z-store I don't have yet.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    jexsamx wrote: »
    WAIT WHAT THE HELL IS THIS

    Where's the proper feedback section for this? I've got a bone to pick with this boneheaded decision and I want to put it where it belongs.

    I'm not spending forty-five minutes grinding for one purple doff upgrade that already comes at the cost of five rares. That's stupid and these price hikes are stupid and there had better be some damn solid reasoning behind this or I am going to flip so many tables.



    There's lots more coming!!!


    You like the new rates eh?

    I am going to make a fortune selling greens and blues after this takes hold!

    This is the proper feedback thread - but most people are caught up in the STF changes.
  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    marc8219 wrote: »
    Jesus, I thought i was getting too obssesive by refining 48k per day on most days lol. Now I know I'm nowhere near as bad as some.
    I don't have a starbase to build up by myself so not as much incentive for me though.

    It is nice to know that if dil does get anywhere near 50 per zen, my 1mil+ dil I can bring in per month might get me just about everything from the z-store I don't have yet.

    The 1.7 million dilth I spent recently on my starbase Tier 3 upgrade was a bit of an ouch!
  • emeraldagenda12emeraldagenda12 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    So, I know this is random and I don't post much...


    Why doesn't someone just sue them for something then or have a government official look into regulating in-game online sales? It's real money in play and everyone seems so upset on feeling robbed about something instead of just leaving.

    While I don't agree with many changes since PWE took over, I would never expect change to come from the forums, I think some of you should consider a lawyer or find away to directly voice concerns to the development and staff, however that may work.


    Just some suggestions, considering I was about to purchase the LTS+benefits a few minutes ago and all of the negative posts on the forum have me actually thinking about finding a new game all together.
  • jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,803 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    There's lots more coming!!!


    You like the new rates eh?

    I am going to make a fortune selling greens and blues after this takes hold!

    This is the proper feedback thread - but most people are caught up in the STF changes.

    Oh, I like them all right.

    I want to hug them and squeeze them and smoosh them until they turn blue and die.

    Oh, I effin' love them so much. :mad: :mad: :mad:
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    So, I know this is random and I don't post much...


    Why doesn't someone just sue them for something then or have a government official look into regulating in-game online sales? It's real money in play and everyone seems so upset on feeling robbed about something instead of just leaving.

    While I don't agree with many changes since PWE took over, I would never expect change to come from the forums, I think some of you should consider a lawyer or find away to directly voice concerns to the development and staff, however that may work.


    Just some suggestions, considering I was about to purchase the LTS+benefits a few minutes ago and all of the negative posts on the forum have me actually thinking about finding a new game all together.

    I thought i heard it all....Cryptic really needs to cut the fat in the Thread, and start talking.
    :confused:
    GwaoHAD.png
  • sekritagentsekritagent Member Posts: 510 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Since people love bringing up other MMOs as examples, how about WoW's raid content? If you roll up an alt, do they automatically get free or discounted loot just because you spent months earning raid gear for your main toon? No. You work for it just the same.

    Not the argument being made - you missed the point by a mile trying to defend this terrible decision.
    jexsamx wrote: »
    I'm not spending forty-five minutes grinding for one purple doff upgrade that already comes at the cost of five rares. That's stupid and these price hikes are stupid and there had better be some damn solid reasoning behind this or I am going to flip so many tables.

    Welcome aboard, now that you figured out they're TRIBBLE you too :)
    Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard? :(
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,987 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Now people know what it felt like when they first nerfed the Borg STF gear that we worked so hard for long ago.

    I've been told recently, "it's just the way MMO's operate."
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Now people know what it felt like when they first nerfed the Borg STF gear that we worked so hard for long ago.

    I've been told recently, "it's just the way MMO's operate."

    Feels great for someone who has everything they want from STFs and Fleet starbase system and can earn/refine a lot of dil per day, and has tons of doff saved up on all characters to sell come s7.

    I am going to make a killing, can't wait.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    jexsamx wrote: »
    WAIT WHAT THE HELL IS THIS

    Where's the proper feedback section for this? I've got a bone to pick with this boneheaded decision and I want to put it where it belongs.

    I'm not spending forty-five minutes grinding for one purple doff upgrade that already comes at the cost of five rares. That's stupid and these price hikes are stupid and there had better be some damn solid reasoning behind this or I am going to flip so many tables.

    Relax !! :D
    Everything is fine . :rolleyes:
    Cryptic loves us and they can do no wrong . :cool:

    Now go back dismissing the fanbase's concerns and continue to mock us with your "clever" sig .

    neoakiraii wrote: »
    I thought i heard it all....Cryptic really needs to cut the fat in the Thread, and start talking.
    :confused:

    Heh !
    After the amount of sarcasm and belittling you and jexsamx dished out recently during the LTS Sale "with benefits" -- it's oh so enjoyable to see you two noticing that funny onrushing light at the end of the tunnel .
  • mirai222mirai222 Member Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    jexsamx wrote: »
    Where's the proper feedback section for this? I've got a bone to pick with this boneheaded decision and I want to put it where it belongs.

    You might start with this thread in the Tribble section.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Since people love bringing up other MMOs as examples, how about WoW's raid content? If you roll up an alt, do they automatically get free or discounted loot just because you spent months earning raid gear for your main toon? No. You work for it just the same.

    I'm steering clear of commenting directly but, yeah, they do now.

    Achievements are accountwide. Mounts are accountwide. Pets are accountwide. They sell heirloom gear to level your alts with. Alts get double reputation for reputation already earned on a main.

    Reputation is one of the principal barriers to certain gear.

    And I think it's doubly important in a F2P game that sells character slots so that people don't just set up side accounts to get more alts.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    aelfwin1 wrote: »



    Heh !
    After the amount of sarcasm and belittling you and jexsamx dished out recently during the LTS Sale "with benefits" -- it's oh so enjoyable to see you two noticing that funny onrushing light at the end of the tunnel .

    Yeah, still stand by those, but kids will be kids...anyhow, Once season 7 is on tribble, and Cryptic has their test out season 7 for gift stuff, I can see how things get, and have a better understanding of what's to come. till then I don't have enough information.

    So far I like that I don't have to rely on my friends and luck to get MK XII sets and could run more pug runs, and Don't have to run CSE to get the engine, if I'm lucky enough to get one. :cool:
    GwaoHAD.png
  • ortsimortsim Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    So S7 is essentially this so far:

    Current STFs have a revamped system (and is still the same content as two years ago), and the gear is purchaseable after rep gains from grinding the missions along with a few new additions. Is there any other way to get rep, such as dailies? Sounds like Burning Crusade WoW rep system, meh.

    New Romulan content with reputation system and group content and missions, as well as a revamped way to get the Reman set. Sounds decent.

    Fleet Embassy as an addition to fleet progression. I've read there are threat-scaling science consoles as a store reward, not sure what that is yet...This also sounds interesting, but most of the rewards seem to be more cosmetic in nature.

    DOFF system in general squeezes a drastically increased amount of dilithium out of the upgrade system as well as general recruitment (I think I saw a 1k tag on just a standard pack?).
    ________________________________________________________________

    Is that a decent sum-up?

    I've never bothered to do the STFs because the gear just doesn't seem worth it, it seems a bit better now that it is less RNG based, but still not a fan of rep grinding via "dungeons". The Romulan stuff is interesting because it seems more like the Tholian missions, which is pretty decent as STO goes, though repetitive. The Reman set doesn't interest me with its current incarnation, so I hope they add another set or more rewards in general. The Fleet stuff seems to be the best thing going for STO right now, for me. I'm the fourth largest contributor to our fleet, it feels like we're making decent progress, and I can get DOFFs for fairly cheap as well as some interesting gear (thinking about buying a deflector/shield/engine, even though it isn't a "set"). Overall, kind of unimpressed till I try out the Romulan "adventure" content.
  • willy01pwewilly01pwe Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Yeah on tribble now and the grinding up of doffs has sky rocketed... I would never use it now... Not that I ever did anyway as I just sent all doffs to the starbase wood chipper or mailed them to myself so they could be sent to the wood chipper at a later point. I'm definitely not paying 5000DL to get a random purple.... that could have traits or profession I could care less about.

    The dilithium increase for DOFF exchange is going to cause a massive backlash and Cryptic / PW are going to lose players over this. Check out the thread in the Test Server forums, up to 20+ pages and counting...


    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=418461


    I hope this doesn't become Cryptic's Combat Upgrade / NGE mistake. Sony Online Entertainment pretty much KILLED Star Wars Galaxies in 2005 when they dropped the CU on a universally disapproving player base. People left in droves (I was one of them).
    --
    No Star Trek Series went past Season 7.

    Will Star Trek Online survive Season 7?
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