Complaining about KDF content is not helping our cause. The only thing that can ever make the KDF grow is when more of us play, and enjoy the content and ships which we have now... and they are some great ships!
"Be the content you wish to see in the world." - Chancellor Gan'Dih
As I've said before, the KDF is in a catch-22. There won't be more players without more content, there won't be more content without more players. The only ones capable of breaking that catch-22 is cryptic.
As nothing in your post resembled a balanced discussion there was really nothing worth responding to.
KDF player wants more KDF stuff :eek:
I simply pointed out that while the KDF do have less options than the Feds, the quality is better. No one who takes an unbiased look at the ships and equipment available to both factions will most certainly conclude the KDF is better off.
As nothing in your post resembled a balanced discussion there was really nothing worth responding to.
KDF player wants more KDF stuff :eek:
I simply pointed out that while the KDF do have less options than the Feds, the quality is better. No one who takes an unbiased look at the ships and equipment available to both factions will most certainly conclude the KDF is better off.
And ofc little spoiled kids will say lies that enemy faction is more powerful so the company favours ur faction and nerf our faction
Good old story its called gentle trolling.
Now to speak the truth FED vs KDF i say that latetly fed got more quality stuff and more stuff in general.
Did u forget the fed escort carrier with those rly annoying tractor pets?
It seems that federation is getting as strong or even more strong than KDF stop trolling plz.
And ofc little spoiled kids will say lies that enemy faction is more powerful so the company favours ur faction and nerf our faction
Good old story its called gentle trolling.
Now to speak the truth FED vs KDF i say that latetly fed got more quality stuff and more stuff in general.
Did u forget the fed escort carrier with those rly annoying tractor pets?
It seems that federation is getting as strong or even more strong than KDF stop trolling plz.
Judging by your posts I would wager this "little spoiled kid" is more than twice your age and has more than 3 times your IQ.
But I digress. If the Feds have a lot more quality stuff than the KDF then why do the majority of Fed players fly either the Tactical Escort Retrofit or the Oddessy Cruiser? Sure there are some cat carriers around, the odd sovereign and even the occasional deep space science vessel. No more variety than there is in the ships the KDF fly.
This is what you get when 20+ of your available ships are inferior to the other half a dozen. A problem the KDF has for the most part avoided due to fewer ship choices. Overall quality still comes down in favor of the KDF though.
Garumba > Patrol Escort / Advanced Escort
Klingon Flagship > Federation Flagship
Fek'whatever Carrier > Pretty much everything when it comes to damage.
I really don't understand what the klingons are always complaining about.
Did anyone else notice that the last line of his post I quoted is complaining that the Feds are getting almost as strong as the KDF? He's even admitting the KFD is stonger there :rolleyes:
As nothing in your post resembled a balanced discussion there was really nothing worth responding to.
KDF player wants more KDF stuff :eek:
I simply pointed out that while the KDF do have less options than the Feds, the quality is better. No one who takes an unbiased look at the ships and equipment available to both factions will most certainly conclude the KDF is better off.
What's not balanced about it? That there are actually people who don't care about stats and prefer having options? That there are people who don't give one whit about endgame, console quality, and the turn rate of a ship? :P
Judging by your posts I would wager this "little spoiled kid" is more than twice your age and has more than 3 times your IQ.
Nice ad hominem attack there.
the majority of Fed players fly either the Tactical Escort Retrofit or the Oddessy Cruiser?
Not sure what you're doing but when I played Fed Side there was a whole lot more ships then that being flown.
The Tact Escort Reto, the 3 different kinds of Oddseey, the Akiria Escort, the Atrox Carier, the Multi Vector Advanced Escort, and the occasional T5 sci ship.
That's a whole heck of a lot more ship types then the 2 you list above. Clearly you're being less then accurate in an attempt to look the Fed side look worse.
KDF side I typically see a BoP, 1 of 2 different carriers and maybe the rare Escort or Cruiser.
So your basic premise is completely wrong. There's clearly more ships used Fed side then KDF side.
As I've said before, the KDF is in a catch-22. There won't be more players without more content, there won't be more content without more players. The only ones capable of breaking that catch-22 is cryptic.
Actually there is already a good amount of content. Sorties, fleet actions, dailies, places to go... Don't tell me that everything is about episodes. Get in a large, good, fleet, you won't get bored if you have people to do stuff with. The behaviour of some kdf hardcore players can really give the feeling that the faction has nothing to offer, and that's completely wrong.
Of course we need more content, but this issue has nothing to do with the KDF. At the moment, I'm enjoying my KDF chars because my fed ones are at endgame and I don't mave much stuff to do, since I'm not really into the starbase stuff (buying lockbox ships from the exchange is more interesting than investing like mad for inferior fleet ships). Yes, the KDF needs more content, but the FED does too.
Actually there is already a good amount of content. Sorties, fleet actions, dailies, places to go... Don't tell me that everything is about episodes. Get in a large, good, fleet, you won't get bored if you have people to do stuff with. The behaviour of some kdf hardcore players can really give the feeling that the faction has nothing to offer, and that's completely wrong.
Of course we need more content, but this issue has nothing to do with the KDF. At the moment, I'm enjoying my KDF chars because my fed ones are at endgame and I don't mave much stuff to do, since I'm not really into the starbase stuff (buying lockbox ships from the exchange is more interesting than investing like mad for inferior fleet ships). Yes, the KDF needs more content, but the FED does too.
Seriously ... stalker - atrox - armitage - Regent - 2 x fed costums vs zero KDF Content thats a clear message from Cryptic about KDF Content. OR much better Fleet Ships ... Feds have Defiant - Intrepit - Nebula - Multivector - Galaxy - Armitage that gets a Discount if u have it buyed in c store vs ZERO KDF Fleetships with discount + we only have 4 t5 ships in c store but dont count the bortas as a Fleet ship from the c store because its the weak non c Store Version.( no Discount also)
Plz explain now why we get enought Content.
Ps.: Fleet actions or Stf dont count because its NOT KDF Content. Its crossfaction Content and Content for both factions
Yes, the discount on fleetship is something the KDF doesn't have, but seriously, I don't call ships "content". Ships are just a money grabber for cryptic, that's all. I don't mind if they don't try to make money on my kdf chars with ships, we clearly have several interesting ones already. Actually it's good, existing ships are enough and there is no temptation.
What's content? STFs. Fleet actions. Some stuff to do. Dailies. And Episodes. Feds have more indeed, but that's it. Only more episodes.
Neither the Forums or official Cryptic statements matter. The Klingon Matron is always in the next castle. (Federation can keep their fairy princesses.)
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
I can see by the end of the year the Feds getting a Battle Cloak equipped ship that mounts cannons (7 weap slots, 4 fore, 3 aft), turns as fast as a BoP, and has as much hull as a Escort Carrier and then after getting that they still want a more powerful ship.
What's content? STFs. Fleet actions. Some stuff to do. Dailies. And Episodes. Feds have more indeed, but that's it. Only more episodes.
Which is huge, I enjoy playing the missions, but with only 9 missions on the KDF side, it's a real pain in the butt. Only up side is all the KDF missions beats the pants off the Federation ones.
I can see by the end of the year the Feds getting a Battle Cloak equipped ship that mounts cannons (7 weap slots, 4 fore, 3 aft), turns as fast as a BoP, and has as much hull as a Escort Carrier and then after getting that they still want a more powerful ship.
Probably be the broadside Andorian ship, which will throw balance out the window more than the Lockbox ships ever did.
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
Yeah we have seen if something unique to KDF can make some extra money it will be released on fed side...
It gives you a good berth of how much integrity is put into statements about uniqueness... if its unique to the federation it won't be broken... If its unique to the KDF you can expect it to be used by the federation in a matter of time.
The battle cloak is the only thing left unique to the KDF so if it appears on fed side you'll prolly see the major KDF players you see around like myself vanish from the game... its not a boycott or anything its basically what is going to happen the 18% will turn into 0%.
Yeah we have seen if something unique to KDF can make some extra money it will be released on fed side...
It gives you a good berth of how much integrity is put into statements about uniqueness... if its unique to the federation it won't be broken... If its unique to the KDF you can expect it to be used by the federation in a matter of time.
The battle cloak is the only thing left unique to the KDF so if it appears on fed side you'll prolly see the major KDF players you see around like myself vanish from the game... its not a boycott or anything its basically what is going to happen the 18% will turn into 0%.
The battle cloack and the plasma leech dont forget that.
KDF must keep plasma leech unique if it should remain viable at pvp and competitive at pve.
It was announced when the consoles where first released into the game that the consoles would eventually be made availible to both factions. We KDF just don't see the fed choices as being comparable to what they our recieving from us in trade, and frankly we are right for the most part. As well the method of thier being " made availible" is lacking in imagination.
As to the battle Cloak, its not a console on the KDF so why should it ever be made availible as one to the federation? I would hope to think its at least, as the last bastion of KDF vessel uniqueness, is safe.
Yeah we have seen if something unique to KDF can make some extra money it will be released on fed side...
It gives you a good berth of how much integrity is put into statements about uniqueness... if its unique to the federation it won't be broken... If its unique to the KDF you can expect it to be used by the federation in a matter of time.
This is the sad truth as we KDF fans see it, especially given the history of the KDF within STO. Many will deny it as untrue and yet with Science vessels as the thing we got from the feds, what have we actually gotten that can truly be considered a part of "fed uniqueness"?
Its time that Cryptic built the KDF as a seperate Faction in its entirety with a feeling to its gameplay that gives the playerbase something different than fed shadowing and mimicry.
Some more ships, a few new missions here & there and way more uniforms please. Maybe Klingon war songs / music from movies and tv ?
Make the KDF faction attractive and more players will use it. Throw in more KDF Z-store goodies and make more profit. Telling us that there are not enough KDF players without investing and offering things to use & buy for KDF looks for me like a self-predicting story of failure.
All of my friends and people I regular team with play both Federation and KDF. Same are more into Federation, same are more into KDF. It would be nice to get more information about the "only 16% KDF population" statement.
Are these figures ( the 16% statement ) based on actual STO player base ? Full-time KDF only playing or accounts with a single not used Klingon character ? Or maybe convention attendance ? Online popularity-votes ( would you join Federation or KDF ) ? Does anyone know if and where this statement was explained in detail ?
When I play STO and I have problems trying to get into any que it is always the same. Not enough players at the time given. This is not a KDF only problem.
Regarding "Unification" with Federation. After thinking about it I will phrase my words in the most balanced and civilized way possible ...
NEVER ! Thats just a big load of *beep* *BEEP* *BEEEP* !
Throwing everything into one big Federation only faction will only make the game less attractive. Maybe a short term gain in profit / players but i believe it will harm the total player base in the middle and long term. And talking about KDF and Romulan joining together ... yeah, brilliant JJ-style way to shoot oneself in the foot.
Yes, many players just want to play their personal copy of Kirk or Picard or Sisko or Janeway (?). But there are others that just want to play as a Klingon warrior like Worf or Martok without being part of the Federation. I personally would love to play as an ambidextrous, sneaky, scheming, devious Romulan Warbird Commander. I really hope that the KDF ( and any future faction ) is not reduced to a sidekick of the Federation.
Are these figures ( the 16% statement ) based on actual STO player base ? Full-time KDF only playing or accounts with a single not used Klingon character ? Or maybe convention attendance ? Online popularity-votes ( would you join Federation or KDF ) ? Does anyone know if and where this statement was explained in detail ?
I'm pretty sure Dan Stahl himself has stated that is what is at conventions. Which is unrealistic for a number of reasons, the most prominent ones being time and distance. People don't always have time to go to those conventions (work, travel, family etc) and others can't because their country doesn't have them.
Mr Stahl not everyone lives in the USA, get realistic.
Show us you truly are a fan of the Federation and show some equality and acceptance. Star Trek isn't only about the Federation, the Enterprise just didn't go around and make first contact with itself over and over. They didn't have a 100 year cold war with itself in the 23rd century. Praxis a Federation moon didn't just explode and cause the Federation to sign a peace treaty with itself. Worf wasn't the first Human to serve in Starfleet. Stop being so bias and actually take advantage of a market screaming for content, we have the Zen, the cash give us something to buy.
How many times do we have to beat Cryptic with the dead targ that is Cryptic till they listen. Listen to those inside your company who want to work on the KDF. Give them some freedom. Dedicate a single season to just KDF content and see how it goes, at the very least you'll hopefully get the full KDF campaign, some more species, costumes and ships. At the very worse it shuts us up for a few months, at best it improves the image of this game and Cryptic itself. I can't imagine all this bad publicity is doing anything positive for this game or company.
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
Signed. Iat first it was fun to play Sahni, the orion girl, but as it goes, i don't want her running around in a loincloth and i hate the uniforms. no civilian atire for KDF? really? how hard is it to enabel the same civilian options the fed has? does the TOS uniform pack ahve skirts for women? betting not for KDF. and skirts are canon. mara wore one in day of the dove
Hello and welcome to the petition for KDF rights and to show that what you are doing is unfair.
Life is unfair, but the amount of attention given to maintaining the Klingon population is well in line with their population. Klingons make up 20% of the population, at a generous estimate, it is the very definition of fair that they get 20% of the developers time.
Missions:KDF has 8 Missions to KDF only! In thoses there are 1 Unique item. Others are just usless junk. FEDhas 48 to them only with many Unique items.You say its fair, I dont think so.
8 unique missions, and something like 20 Featured Episode missions, so a purely Klingon player has something to do, it's just that a Federation player is lacking in unique content to draw him over to the Klingon side of the game. Is this a problem? Yes, if your goal is to create a Klingon faction as numerous as the Federation.
Is this unfair? No, the KDF makes up 20% of the population, a number that is actually up since the last time I've heard it. That means it is the very soul of fairness for them to have 20% of the unique missions in game. 20% of 56 is 11.2, and surely we can wait on those last 3.2 missions, right?
Ships: Now.. here is a problem that I know we all see. In KDF, they have 21 Ships from the C Store. FED has 29 Ships From the C Store. Thast fine but here is the complaint. Feds have more requestion ships than KDF so they have a more variety to chose from to use. Then, KDF has all science ships as C-Store. Then, KDF gets atleast 1 ship every few months while FED gets many ships like 3 every month or 2. Thats not fait at all. KDF is vauge to new ships ever siince Borstaque. That is a lot of months. NOw you are taking the Season 6 away from us and giving FEd 2? Thats just pure unjustness.
You mention 50 C-Store ships, I'll take your word for it on the numbers. 20% of 50 is 10. Fair would be 10 ships.
Now, you say all KDF science ships are C-Store only, and I agree. But by the same token every Federation carrier is C-Store only. Every cloaking Federation ship is C-Store only. Every Federation ship with a universal bridge officer slot is C-Store only. Every Federation ship with a battle cloak... well actually never mind, there are no Federation ships with a battle cloak.
You see, the developers have decided that Klingons should have fewer science vessels, and that the Federation should have fewer carriers, cloaking vessels, universal bridge officer slots and no battle cloaks. I don't think that's particularly unfair either, but if I did have to make a call about "fairness" here, it would not be against the Federation.
Races: Not a Big Problem. KDF is Vauge in races. FEDs have a lot.
Klingon races are cooler, and come with unique outfits and some of the best graphics in the game. That makes up for alot. Not unfair.
Uniforms: Feds get around 22 plus Veteran Reward badge and KDF gets 1 costume. I am not counting sets cause all factions can get. Also Fed has more automacticly having uniforms.
I'm sorry, Veteran Reward Badges? Okay, I'm just going to breeze on past that and address your next point.
The KDF gets a hell of alot more than 1 costume. They have a wide range of different cosmetic choices that can be done with their base uniform options. Plus, they have 4 sets of race unique outfits for the Nausicaans, Orion Males, Orion Females and Gorn. Now, I'd say the Klingons have 1 costume option for every 5 costume options on the side of the Federation, so this is fair.
Bundles: All are FED except the Ship Pack. They even get specail boxes to themself like Starter Pack.
Bundles? Cryptic offering special deals to buy from the Z-Store a group of interconnected items operating under a set, usually show related, theme is a point of contention with you?
Well, what would they Bundle for the KDF? Do they have a Nausicaan Z-Store costume and bridge layout they can bundle with the Guramba? They have Bird of Prey bridges, maybe they can bundle the B'Rel with the BOP bridges, the eye-patch costume pack and a "quote Shakespear" emote! Call it the "undiscovered country" pack. The lack of the "undiscovered country" pack does not amount of unfairness though, just a missed marketing opportunity.
Population:Now, dont just skip this. It is important. For population, KDF has around 16%, FED has 84% I wonder why!
I don't, but I do wonder what you think.
Well lets see.. Better ships,
Wrong.
Uniforms,
Matter of opinion.
Packages,
Seriously?
quests,
Maybe.
Races,
Wrong. This isn't even a matter of opinion, the Klingon races come with unique ships, and costume aesthetics. No Federation race has that degree of individuality and work invested.
and more. If youd just take the time to work on KDF, people would be more playing on it. And dont give me that "but they are half way there so why go on KDF"excuse. Plus, you say youd do stuff for KDF and you dont! Then it recoils into low numbers!
Would more people be playing? What percentage of players do you think would be on the KDF if they had absolute parity with the Starfleet side of the game? I would guess the absolute most they could hope for would be a third of the playing population. You have your own guess ofcourse. Cryptic Studios has millions of dollars riding on that answer so they aren't guessing, rather they KNOW, in a statistical sense, how many people want to play Klingons. The number is not large enough for them to halt advancing production to fix all this 'unfairness.'
PvP&E:Guess what? Low population means less chance for these. IM telling you Crystal is a pain, barley any Fleet Actions are ever queue, same with PvP Neutral and most Faction. Barley see KDF on STFs etc.
PVE queue's for STF's are co-ed now. PVP queue's being made co-ed would solve this problem there aswell, and cause tons of canon nuts to cry out in agony. Fleet Actions, well, you've got a fleet, use them!
Graphics:Fed has better graphics than KDF.
Personal preference.
Travel:Fed has way more places to go to for socail and attack. More vacation planets, more bases, more mostly everything. KDF.. Qo'nos,Gandala,and Risa (Rank 4 Maurauding). Take sout a lot of RP. (mostly only thing KDF can do)
Drozana, DS9, and a bunch of others.
New Faction: This is my newest thign I am posting to this fourm. If there is a New Faction lets say Romulan, this does mostly give more excusees for the STO to lack off KDF and there would possibly be 2 Fed Like factions or full factions and one weak faction/uncomplete faction which isnt a faction at all. Mostly KDF will get nowhere with a new faction. Feds will be good with what it has and Romulan and Feds wil just be more attentive all the time. KDF will fall and the other factins will take over the STO efforts. Do mroe fopr KDF before thr Romulans come. KDF hasnt had a new ship since Borstaqu' adn the newest thing was Ferasans and thats the only thing after Borstaque.
The developers have always said they want to do more for the KDF before they start on the Romulans, so do not worry. Even when they do start the Romulans, it will inevitably be as an even less finished faction than the KDF. Cryptic doesn't have the money to spend long periods of time working on a massive project so anything they do will come out piecemail, bit by bit. I forsee a Romulan Star Empire that is 4 end game ships with "fleet variants," Romulanized versions of Featured Episodes, DOFF's and three races. Later, they'll add Hirogen ships to the Z-Store.
As far as doing more for the KDF. I actually agree, they should do more for the KDF. Not because entitled players think it's unfair when their loud minority of players only gets a third of the developers attention, rather than half. That would be stupidly unrealistic. No, I think they should have more done because the KDF, as a vacation spot for Federation players, adds longevity to the game.
I often wonder what a player is thinking, as far as they think they are helping, when they try to explain away why we should not be upset about the KDF in STO or why we should not push for more to grow the faction.
I often wonder what a player is thinking, as far as they think they are helping, when they try to explain away why we should not be upset about the KDF in STO or why we should not push for more to grow the faction.
Its not that we shouldn't be upset, its that we should stop comparing KDF to FED. I like KDF as is, it needs work, but I never once went, I wish it had what FED has. I go damn I wish it had more ships or Klingon content. Read the why you play KDF thread, "Freedom" is listed a lot, sadly are lack of content gives us that. Wanting us to merge with FED is just plain care bare lazy crazy. I do agree KDF and FED mingle a lot these days thanks to STFs, but the idea of flying a fed ship instead of my KDF, or giving up my daily raids on FED colonies is just plain crazy talk.
KDF is fun because its not FED, so if your gonna try to rile up the KDF players don't say you want it to be the new FED. Heck feds already want are stuff, as they should. But instead of liking what we got and wanting more, people want what they have. I love KDF becuase of its differences, I love that I have orion slavers who kidnap crew, and loot ships for my science captain. I love that my ugly Kar'fi is unique, and its bays trump that of FED players.
I want to know what people are thinking when they see trying to be one big happy blob, the federation creedo, as anything but against the KDF way of life. When I see stuff like that I think there is a fed, who likes his KDF ship so much he wants to just transition the whole KDF into the Federation so he can were fancy clothes, and hang with vulcans. Even the needles comparing, and asking for redos on KDF ships is getting old. Always some one comparing two seperate ships wanting them to be the same class, and cookie cutter copies, then in another post some one else shouts about how are ships are just knock offs with diffrent shells.
Complaining and wanting to be like FED isn't really motivation for new players to try the other side. Why would a FED come over to KDF when we got people saying they are better off as FED? Its the people who say I am proud to be a KDF despite are shortcomings that attract players, well that and are ships. A campaign to be more like FED translates into, why go KDF at all you already got a decent level FED toon just to unlock KDF?
The only reason KDF is only 20% of the playerbase is because the majority of the content being put out is for the federation.
It has been so since launch of the game.
Its a simple, vicious cyle: New player joins STO. The great majority start with a federation character...after all, that IS 'trek'.
During their way up to 50 they notice Federation gets new ships almost every month, new content every month, new toys every month. They see KDF complaining 'dude where's my ship? WTF? nothing for KDF ..AGAIN?' type post and complaints.
That player's inclination to raise another character to 50 in the KDF is diminshed before he even tries it.
...but lets say he eventually makes the leap. All through the grind to 50 he sees the major flaw and source of discontent in the KDF: Stuck to basically 3 ship choices (bop,raptor, battlecruiser) which are all pretty much identical as you level up (aka bop tier 1 is flown the same, has the same 'flavor' as the tier 4 bop) whereas federation players get a wider variety of ship flavors within the ship class to fly (tac-oriented science ships, tac oriented cruisers, etc).
and the final blow comes in tier 5. Reaching VA level he realizes that the majority of KDF ships are in the zstore. A fed player can have his flavor variety at 50 by getting cruisers, science ships, variants, etc with dilithium... but KDF is stuck with the same ship flavor that has been used since tier 1..and the only 'new' thing really is the carrier at tier 4.
Most of the times, these players just realize it is too much of a dil. grind to get ships that are not that much better or different than their tier 4 counterparts and spending zen on kdf ships is problematic at best when you consider federation gets new ships every other patch (aka, better to spend zen on the new armitage than on a year old gorn science ship that gives very little performance and costs a lot of zen).... and they go back to federation side where their wants are catered to.
Cryptic need only release one kdf ship a month and provide variants for the token ships to add diversity and the KDF side would swell to 50% of the playerbase.
No one single thing is gonna fix the KDF population. Not new ships every month. 40 KDF specific missions alone won't do it. Not novel faction specific game mechanics that push simulated arms races by providing consistently evolving strategy and tactics between those factions. No costumes or special races will do it. Even my favorite 1-50 leveled play will not do it on it's own.
But all those things and more added together Will go a long way toward a healthy and robust KDF population that in turn could help to prop up the weak PvP population. And all these things need writers, coders, artists, Q&A and more to make it work.
That is the problem. When they sit down at the conference table with the reps from PWE and ask themselves what would bring in more money you know the KDF comes up and then they look at the labor, (which is money out), time (which is money out), server space, (which can be money out if they have to get more servers, and risk, (which is the possible long term money out if things don't go right) and they say, "Let's play it safe. You know we could put that Plasmodic Leach in a lock box. That would drive the Feds to buy some keys, and silly folk like piwright42 to sell keys on the exchange to get those [Acc]x2 turrets he's been eyeballing."
Is it any wonder that we have to deal with smug, "Feds are 88% of the player base and deserve the lions share so you KDFers should STUFU." in the KDF threads.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
I wasnt aware I was advocating the KDF needs to be like the feds.
I thought I was pushing the fact we needWWW a complete faction and our own identity in STO.
I wasnt aware I was advocating the KDF needs to be like the feds. I thought I was pushing the fact we needWWW a complete faction and our own identity in STO.
That's the way I have always seen your posts.
Let the Feds be Feds. I just wanna schwing Kling and be able to enjoy it a bit more.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
Klingons make up 20% of the population, at a generous estimate, it is the very definition of fair that they get 20% of the developers time.
Mr Stahl himself came up with that number based on attendances at conventions. Which is a total bull number and we all know it. Yet Feddies like to sprout it around like it's fact. I think if Cryptic really did some proper research you'll find a value more like 60% who at least have one KDF character and play it fairly regularly compared to their Federation character. The 20% number is more like the people who exclusively play the KDF, as in not having a Feddie character.
I often wonder what a player is thinking, as far as they think they are helping, when they try to explain away why we should not be upset about the KDF in STO or why we should not push for more to grow the faction.
Indeed smug spoilt kids, who don't even understand the principles of their own faction, if they did they'd be wanting more equality of the factions. The sad fact is if the KDF player base gives up, not only will we see no more KDF development period, the Feddies will suffer as the lost of cash flow from us will greatly affect this game and Cryptic.
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
Comments
As I've said before, the KDF is in a catch-22. There won't be more players without more content, there won't be more content without more players. The only ones capable of breaking that catch-22 is cryptic.
Good job not responding to anything in my post.
As nothing in your post resembled a balanced discussion there was really nothing worth responding to.
KDF player wants more KDF stuff :eek:
I simply pointed out that while the KDF do have less options than the Feds, the quality is better. No one who takes an unbiased look at the ships and equipment available to both factions will most certainly conclude the KDF is better off.
And ofc little spoiled kids will say lies that enemy faction is more powerful so the company favours ur faction and nerf our faction
Good old story its called gentle trolling.
Now to speak the truth FED vs KDF i say that latetly fed got more quality stuff and more stuff in general.
Did u forget the fed escort carrier with those rly annoying tractor pets?
It seems that federation is getting as strong or even more strong than KDF stop trolling plz.
Judging by your posts I would wager this "little spoiled kid" is more than twice your age and has more than 3 times your IQ.
But I digress. If the Feds have a lot more quality stuff than the KDF then why do the majority of Fed players fly either the Tactical Escort Retrofit or the Oddessy Cruiser? Sure there are some cat carriers around, the odd sovereign and even the occasional deep space science vessel. No more variety than there is in the ships the KDF fly.
This is what you get when 20+ of your available ships are inferior to the other half a dozen. A problem the KDF has for the most part avoided due to fewer ship choices. Overall quality still comes down in favor of the KDF though.
Garumba > Patrol Escort / Advanced Escort
Klingon Flagship > Federation Flagship
Fek'whatever Carrier > Pretty much everything when it comes to damage.
I really don't understand what the klingons are always complaining about.
Did anyone else notice that the last line of his post I quoted is complaining that the Feds are getting almost as strong as the KDF? He's even admitting the KFD is stonger there :rolleyes:
What's not balanced about it? That there are actually people who don't care about stats and prefer having options? That there are people who don't give one whit about endgame, console quality, and the turn rate of a ship? :P
You need to look at the broader picture.
Nice ad hominem attack there.
Not sure what you're doing but when I played Fed Side there was a whole lot more ships then that being flown.
The Tact Escort Reto, the 3 different kinds of Oddseey, the Akiria Escort, the Atrox Carier, the Multi Vector Advanced Escort, and the occasional T5 sci ship.
That's a whole heck of a lot more ship types then the 2 you list above. Clearly you're being less then accurate in an attempt to look the Fed side look worse.
KDF side I typically see a BoP, 1 of 2 different carriers and maybe the rare Escort or Cruiser.
So your basic premise is completely wrong. There's clearly more ships used Fed side then KDF side.
Actually there is already a good amount of content. Sorties, fleet actions, dailies, places to go... Don't tell me that everything is about episodes. Get in a large, good, fleet, you won't get bored if you have people to do stuff with. The behaviour of some kdf hardcore players can really give the feeling that the faction has nothing to offer, and that's completely wrong.
Of course we need more content, but this issue has nothing to do with the KDF. At the moment, I'm enjoying my KDF chars because my fed ones are at endgame and I don't mave much stuff to do, since I'm not really into the starbase stuff (buying lockbox ships from the exchange is more interesting than investing like mad for inferior fleet ships). Yes, the KDF needs more content, but the FED does too.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Seriously ... stalker - atrox - armitage - Regent - 2 x fed costums vs zero KDF Content thats a clear message from Cryptic about KDF Content. OR much better Fleet Ships ... Feds have Defiant - Intrepit - Nebula - Multivector - Galaxy - Armitage that gets a Discount if u have it buyed in c store vs ZERO KDF Fleetships with discount + we only have 4 t5 ships in c store but dont count the bortas as a Fleet ship from the c store because its the weak non c Store Version.( no Discount also)
Plz explain now why we get enought Content.
Ps.: Fleet actions or Stf dont count because its NOT KDF Content. Its crossfaction Content and Content for both factions
What's content? STFs. Fleet actions. Some stuff to do. Dailies. And Episodes. Feds have more indeed, but that's it. Only more episodes.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
Which is huge, I enjoy playing the missions, but with only 9 missions on the KDF side, it's a real pain in the butt. Only up side is all the KDF missions beats the pants off the Federation ones.
Probably be the broadside Andorian ship, which will throw balance out the window more than the Lockbox ships ever did.
It gives you a good berth of how much integrity is put into statements about uniqueness... if its unique to the federation it won't be broken... If its unique to the KDF you can expect it to be used by the federation in a matter of time.
The battle cloak is the only thing left unique to the KDF so if it appears on fed side you'll prolly see the major KDF players you see around like myself vanish from the game... its not a boycott or anything its basically what is going to happen the 18% will turn into 0%.
The battle cloack and the plasma leech dont forget that.
KDF must keep plasma leech unique if it should remain viable at pvp and competitive at pve.
As to the battle Cloak, its not a console on the KDF so why should it ever be made availible as one to the federation? I would hope to think its at least, as the last bastion of KDF vessel uniqueness, is safe.
This is the sad truth as we KDF fans see it, especially given the history of the KDF within STO. Many will deny it as untrue and yet with Science vessels as the thing we got from the feds, what have we actually gotten that can truly be considered a part of "fed uniqueness"?
Its time that Cryptic built the KDF as a seperate Faction in its entirety with a feeling to its gameplay that gives the playerbase something different than fed shadowing and mimicry.
R.I.P
Some more ships, a few new missions here & there and way more uniforms please. Maybe Klingon war songs / music from movies and tv ?
Make the KDF faction attractive and more players will use it. Throw in more KDF Z-store goodies and make more profit. Telling us that there are not enough KDF players without investing and offering things to use & buy for KDF looks for me like a self-predicting story of failure.
All of my friends and people I regular team with play both Federation and KDF. Same are more into Federation, same are more into KDF. It would be nice to get more information about the "only 16% KDF population" statement.
Are these figures ( the 16% statement ) based on actual STO player base ? Full-time KDF only playing or accounts with a single not used Klingon character ? Or maybe convention attendance ? Online popularity-votes ( would you join Federation or KDF ) ? Does anyone know if and where this statement was explained in detail ?
When I play STO and I have problems trying to get into any que it is always the same. Not enough players at the time given. This is not a KDF only problem.
Regarding "Unification" with Federation. After thinking about it I will phrase my words in the most balanced and civilized way possible ...
NEVER ! Thats just a big load of *beep* *BEEP* *BEEEP* !
Throwing everything into one big Federation only faction will only make the game less attractive. Maybe a short term gain in profit / players but i believe it will harm the total player base in the middle and long term. And talking about KDF and Romulan joining together ... yeah, brilliant JJ-style way to shoot oneself in the foot.
Yes, many players just want to play their personal copy of Kirk or Picard or Sisko or Janeway (?). But there are others that just want to play as a Klingon warrior like Worf or Martok without being part of the Federation. I personally would love to play as an ambidextrous, sneaky, scheming, devious Romulan Warbird Commander. I really hope that the KDF ( and any future faction ) is not reduced to a sidekick of the Federation.
*edit spell check
I'm pretty sure Dan Stahl himself has stated that is what is at conventions. Which is unrealistic for a number of reasons, the most prominent ones being time and distance. People don't always have time to go to those conventions (work, travel, family etc) and others can't because their country doesn't have them.
Mr Stahl not everyone lives in the USA, get realistic.
Show us you truly are a fan of the Federation and show some equality and acceptance. Star Trek isn't only about the Federation, the Enterprise just didn't go around and make first contact with itself over and over. They didn't have a 100 year cold war with itself in the 23rd century. Praxis a Federation moon didn't just explode and cause the Federation to sign a peace treaty with itself. Worf wasn't the first Human to serve in Starfleet. Stop being so bias and actually take advantage of a market screaming for content, we have the Zen, the cash give us something to buy.
How many times do we have to beat Cryptic with the dead targ that is Cryptic till they listen. Listen to those inside your company who want to work on the KDF. Give them some freedom. Dedicate a single season to just KDF content and see how it goes, at the very least you'll hopefully get the full KDF campaign, some more species, costumes and ships. At the very worse it shuts us up for a few months, at best it improves the image of this game and Cryptic itself. I can't imagine all this bad publicity is doing anything positive for this game or company.
I dont need KDF content on BSG:O cuz I play as a Cylon.
Life is unfair, but the amount of attention given to maintaining the Klingon population is well in line with their population. Klingons make up 20% of the population, at a generous estimate, it is the very definition of fair that they get 20% of the developers time.
8 unique missions, and something like 20 Featured Episode missions, so a purely Klingon player has something to do, it's just that a Federation player is lacking in unique content to draw him over to the Klingon side of the game. Is this a problem? Yes, if your goal is to create a Klingon faction as numerous as the Federation.
Is this unfair? No, the KDF makes up 20% of the population, a number that is actually up since the last time I've heard it. That means it is the very soul of fairness for them to have 20% of the unique missions in game. 20% of 56 is 11.2, and surely we can wait on those last 3.2 missions, right?
You mention 50 C-Store ships, I'll take your word for it on the numbers. 20% of 50 is 10. Fair would be 10 ships.
Now, you say all KDF science ships are C-Store only, and I agree. But by the same token every Federation carrier is C-Store only. Every cloaking Federation ship is C-Store only. Every Federation ship with a universal bridge officer slot is C-Store only. Every Federation ship with a battle cloak... well actually never mind, there are no Federation ships with a battle cloak.
You see, the developers have decided that Klingons should have fewer science vessels, and that the Federation should have fewer carriers, cloaking vessels, universal bridge officer slots and no battle cloaks. I don't think that's particularly unfair either, but if I did have to make a call about "fairness" here, it would not be against the Federation.
Klingon races are cooler, and come with unique outfits and some of the best graphics in the game. That makes up for alot. Not unfair.
I'm sorry, Veteran Reward Badges? Okay, I'm just going to breeze on past that and address your next point.
The KDF gets a hell of alot more than 1 costume. They have a wide range of different cosmetic choices that can be done with their base uniform options. Plus, they have 4 sets of race unique outfits for the Nausicaans, Orion Males, Orion Females and Gorn. Now, I'd say the Klingons have 1 costume option for every 5 costume options on the side of the Federation, so this is fair.
Bundles? Cryptic offering special deals to buy from the Z-Store a group of interconnected items operating under a set, usually show related, theme is a point of contention with you?
Well, what would they Bundle for the KDF? Do they have a Nausicaan Z-Store costume and bridge layout they can bundle with the Guramba? They have Bird of Prey bridges, maybe they can bundle the B'Rel with the BOP bridges, the eye-patch costume pack and a "quote Shakespear" emote! Call it the "undiscovered country" pack. The lack of the "undiscovered country" pack does not amount of unfairness though, just a missed marketing opportunity.
I don't, but I do wonder what you think.
Wrong.
Matter of opinion.
Seriously?
Maybe.
Wrong. This isn't even a matter of opinion, the Klingon races come with unique ships, and costume aesthetics. No Federation race has that degree of individuality and work invested.
Would more people be playing? What percentage of players do you think would be on the KDF if they had absolute parity with the Starfleet side of the game? I would guess the absolute most they could hope for would be a third of the playing population. You have your own guess ofcourse. Cryptic Studios has millions of dollars riding on that answer so they aren't guessing, rather they KNOW, in a statistical sense, how many people want to play Klingons. The number is not large enough for them to halt advancing production to fix all this 'unfairness.'
PVE queue's for STF's are co-ed now. PVP queue's being made co-ed would solve this problem there aswell, and cause tons of canon nuts to cry out in agony. Fleet Actions, well, you've got a fleet, use them!
Personal preference.
Drozana, DS9, and a bunch of others.
The developers have always said they want to do more for the KDF before they start on the Romulans, so do not worry. Even when they do start the Romulans, it will inevitably be as an even less finished faction than the KDF. Cryptic doesn't have the money to spend long periods of time working on a massive project so anything they do will come out piecemail, bit by bit. I forsee a Romulan Star Empire that is 4 end game ships with "fleet variants," Romulanized versions of Featured Episodes, DOFF's and three races. Later, they'll add Hirogen ships to the Z-Store.
As far as doing more for the KDF. I actually agree, they should do more for the KDF. Not because entitled players think it's unfair when their loud minority of players only gets a third of the developers attention, rather than half. That would be stupidly unrealistic. No, I think they should have more done because the KDF, as a vacation spot for Federation players, adds longevity to the game.
R.I.P
Oh yes the devs are really neglecting the feds these days! They should spend more time creating the 8979th costume option for the federation.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Its not that we shouldn't be upset, its that we should stop comparing KDF to FED. I like KDF as is, it needs work, but I never once went, I wish it had what FED has. I go damn I wish it had more ships or Klingon content. Read the why you play KDF thread, "Freedom" is listed a lot, sadly are lack of content gives us that. Wanting us to merge with FED is just plain care bare lazy crazy. I do agree KDF and FED mingle a lot these days thanks to STFs, but the idea of flying a fed ship instead of my KDF, or giving up my daily raids on FED colonies is just plain crazy talk.
KDF is fun because its not FED, so if your gonna try to rile up the KDF players don't say you want it to be the new FED. Heck feds already want are stuff, as they should. But instead of liking what we got and wanting more, people want what they have. I love KDF becuase of its differences, I love that I have orion slavers who kidnap crew, and loot ships for my science captain. I love that my ugly Kar'fi is unique, and its bays trump that of FED players.
I want to know what people are thinking when they see trying to be one big happy blob, the federation creedo, as anything but against the KDF way of life. When I see stuff like that I think there is a fed, who likes his KDF ship so much he wants to just transition the whole KDF into the Federation so he can were fancy clothes, and hang with vulcans. Even the needles comparing, and asking for redos on KDF ships is getting old. Always some one comparing two seperate ships wanting them to be the same class, and cookie cutter copies, then in another post some one else shouts about how are ships are just knock offs with diffrent shells.
Complaining and wanting to be like FED isn't really motivation for new players to try the other side. Why would a FED come over to KDF when we got people saying they are better off as FED? Its the people who say I am proud to be a KDF despite are shortcomings that attract players, well that and are ships. A campaign to be more like FED translates into, why go KDF at all you already got a decent level FED toon just to unlock KDF?
It has been so since launch of the game.
Its a simple, vicious cyle: New player joins STO. The great majority start with a federation character...after all, that IS 'trek'.
During their way up to 50 they notice Federation gets new ships almost every month, new content every month, new toys every month. They see KDF complaining 'dude where's my ship? WTF? nothing for KDF ..AGAIN?' type post and complaints.
That player's inclination to raise another character to 50 in the KDF is diminshed before he even tries it.
...but lets say he eventually makes the leap. All through the grind to 50 he sees the major flaw and source of discontent in the KDF: Stuck to basically 3 ship choices (bop,raptor, battlecruiser) which are all pretty much identical as you level up (aka bop tier 1 is flown the same, has the same 'flavor' as the tier 4 bop) whereas federation players get a wider variety of ship flavors within the ship class to fly (tac-oriented science ships, tac oriented cruisers, etc).
and the final blow comes in tier 5. Reaching VA level he realizes that the majority of KDF ships are in the zstore. A fed player can have his flavor variety at 50 by getting cruisers, science ships, variants, etc with dilithium... but KDF is stuck with the same ship flavor that has been used since tier 1..and the only 'new' thing really is the carrier at tier 4.
Most of the times, these players just realize it is too much of a dil. grind to get ships that are not that much better or different than their tier 4 counterparts and spending zen on kdf ships is problematic at best when you consider federation gets new ships every other patch (aka, better to spend zen on the new armitage than on a year old gorn science ship that gives very little performance and costs a lot of zen).... and they go back to federation side where their wants are catered to.
Cryptic need only release one kdf ship a month and provide variants for the token ships to add diversity and the KDF side would swell to 50% of the playerbase.
But all those things and more added together Will go a long way toward a healthy and robust KDF population that in turn could help to prop up the weak PvP population. And all these things need writers, coders, artists, Q&A and more to make it work.
That is the problem. When they sit down at the conference table with the reps from PWE and ask themselves what would bring in more money you know the KDF comes up and then they look at the labor, (which is money out), time (which is money out), server space, (which can be money out if they have to get more servers, and risk, (which is the possible long term money out if things don't go right) and they say, "Let's play it safe. You know we could put that Plasmodic Leach in a lock box. That would drive the Feds to buy some keys, and silly folk like piwright42 to sell keys on the exchange to get those [Acc]x2 turrets he's been eyeballing."
Is it any wonder that we have to deal with smug, "Feds are 88% of the player base and deserve the lions share so you KDFers should STUFU." in the KDF threads.
I thought I was pushing the fact we needWWW a complete faction and our own identity in STO.
R.I.P
That's the way I have always seen your posts.
Let the Feds be Feds. I just wanna schwing Kling and be able to enjoy it a bit more.
Mr Stahl himself came up with that number based on attendances at conventions. Which is a total bull number and we all know it. Yet Feddies like to sprout it around like it's fact. I think if Cryptic really did some proper research you'll find a value more like 60% who at least have one KDF character and play it fairly regularly compared to their Federation character. The 20% number is more like the people who exclusively play the KDF, as in not having a Feddie character.
Indeed smug spoilt kids, who don't even understand the principles of their own faction, if they did they'd be wanting more equality of the factions. The sad fact is if the KDF player base gives up, not only will we see no more KDF development period, the Feddies will suffer as the lost of cash flow from us will greatly affect this game and Cryptic.