Mr Stahl himself came up with that number based on attendances at conventions. Which is a total bull number and we all know it.
Are you sure about this? Then it's 20% +1 since I'm definitely not a "fan" of klingons, I'm just enjoying the red faction (as I enjoy my fed chars) in this game. I would enjoy Romulans a lot more and probably mirror fed too. I's just the evil faction you have in every balanced game. And I'm sure there are many people like me.
After all it's not a convention, it's just a game. Many people seems to forget that.
Mr Stahl himself came up with that number based on attendances at conventions. Which is a total bull number and we all know it. Yet Feddies like to sprout it around like it's fact. I think if Cryptic really did some proper research you'll find a value more like 60% who at least have one KDF character and play it fairly regularly compared to their Federation character. The 20% number is more like the people who exclusively play the KDF, as in not having a Feddie character.
Actually, we don't ALL KNOW that it's a bull**** number, and if I have to choose between the numbers provided by a developer who has access to log in statistics or a random forum goer who can't form a coherent argument. I'm going to take the word of the guy with numbers because all you've offered is wishful thinking.
I think the problem is that the number is based on the percentage of people who dress up as Klingons on conventions.
How do conventions have any connection with an MMO?
And has anyone considered how much more difficult it is to properly dress as a Klingon with full makeup than it is to put on a Starfleet shirt?
Not to mention that it's a lot easier and cheaper to buy said shirt than it is to get a Klingon costume?
Mr Stahl himself came up with that number based on attendances at conventions. Which is a total bull number and we all know it. Yet Feddies like to sprout it around like it's fact. I think if Cryptic really did some proper research you'll find a value more like 60% who at least have one KDF character and play it fairly regularly compared to their Federation character. The 20% number is more like the people who exclusively play the KDF, as in not having a Feddie character.
Indeed smug spoilt kids, who don't even understand the principles of their own faction, if they did they'd be wanting more equality of the factions. The sad fact is if the KDF player base gives up, not only will we see no more KDF development period, the Feddies will suffer as the lost of cash flow from us will greatly affect this game and Cryptic.
First the "real" number that that Stahl was basing things around months ago was 16% - the fact is, only he really knows for sure what the number of KDF only and FED who also have an active KDF toon is - and he is not publishing it as fact.
Also only they know how much money is being spent on KDF stuff - no-one else on this board does.
So they should ONLY put stuff in the game which will maximize revenue and profits - this is a tight industry and you have to stay profitable or eventually you will get the axe.
Sorry but if it cost 1 dollar to make a ship Fed or KDF and your stats show your return on making a FED ship will be $3 dollars and you return on the KDF ship will be break even - only a moron in the business world would choose to make the KDF ship.
A bird within a few tries can be condition which light to peck blue/Fed - Red/Kdf bassed on how much reward it gives out
Why is it so hard for KDF players to fiqure this out?
Why is it so hard for KDF players to fiqure this out?
There are very few KDF players that dispute the fact that in the current scheme of things, Fed development is where the money is. That's obvious. The only morons of this story are the guys that created this system, and then defend it by saying "but our numbers show..." Tell me, what other numbers can there be? They're comparing their sales figures of Fed. C-store sales to what exactly? KDF C-store items that are nearly a year old already, and more? KDF players have bought that content already... OBVIOUSLY, the slant is going to be towards the sales of NEW Fed content. Whats so difficult to understand there?
I think overall, and I speak only for myself when I say this, is that the KDF is in this state because it's neglected. Sure people will play Fed more, because that's where all the development of new stuff is taking place.
Cryptic scaled back on KDF, forcing this situation to play out. They gave their clients something of value, which these clients had paid for, and then they took it away. (e.g. half the KDF levels were scrapped for no reason at all, other than making it appear that on the surface the KDF was complete.)
Despite that, I do not believed that in the greater scheme of things it was a sound decision.
If the KDF was brought-up to parity in terms of content and items, more people would play.
First the "real" number that that Stahl was basing things around months ago was 16% - the fact is, only he really knows for sure what the number of KDF only and FED who also have an active KDF toon is - and he is not publishing it as fact.
Also only they know how much money is being spent on KDF stuff - no-one else on this board does.
So they should ONLY put stuff in the game which will maximize revenue and profits - this is a tight industry and you have to stay profitable or eventually you will get the axe.
Sorry but if it cost 1 dollar to make a ship Fed or KDF and your stats show your return on making a FED ship will be $3 dollars and you return on the KDF ship will be break even - only a moron in the business world would choose to make the KDF ship.
A bird within a few tries can be condition which light to peck blue/Fed - Red/Kdf bassed on how much reward it gives out
Why is it so hard for KDF players to fiqure this out?
Many MMO have two fully developped factions or more. It has nothing to do with the number of fans, and it's something I'm not sure the executives in cryptic get. A good faction isn't a faction you would support in geek conventions; this is a laughable way to avoid doing a serious market study. It's just a matter of opportunities for players, and you'll see many people choosing the 'evil'/red faction without being fans of evil, death, or whatever weird idea you'll find about it, but only because this red faction offers an interesting game experience.
In the same way, I'm not sure EA makes market studies about the number of factions their star wars game can fully support by counting the number of idiots wandering in Darth Vader costumes in conventions. This wouldn't be serious at all.
I understand why Cryptic won't give any information about the financial health of the game, but at some point they'll have to make a decision, and to be honnest, I know no healthy sci-fi or space-based MMO with a single playable faction.
There are very few KDF players that dispute the fact that in the current scheme of things, Fed development is where the money is. That's obvious.
I think overall, and I speak only for myself when I say this, is that the KDF is in this state because it's neglected. Sure people will play Fed more, because that's where all the development of new stuff is taking place.
Cryptic scaled back on KDF, forcing this situation to play out. They gave their clients something of value, which these clients had paid for, and then they took it away. (e.g. half the KDF levels were scrapped for no reason at all, other than making it appear that on the surface the KDF was complete.)
Despite that, I do not believed that in the greater scheme of things it was a sound decision.
If the KDF was brought-up to parity in terms of content and items, more people would play.
I agree - more people would play KDF - however- I do not agree that it would be enough to warrent the cost of making it to that point.
Right now with the economy and the decline in game sales across the board in the order of billions of dollars - it is way to risky from PWE to take on anything that is not GUAREETEED to be a safe winner
And I don't by the KDF is not playable - it's simple bull**** - I jusy Bought up my 4th KDF to lvl 50 and I am using her in a Heavy bop - doing STF and some other things - I don't find much difference than Fed side
PvP is dead and done in this game - forever and ever - it's a non-issue and non starter so what else?
Many MMO have two fully developped factions or more. It has nothing to do with the number of fans, and it's something I'm not sure the executives in cryptic get.
This. I can't actually think of a MMO i have played that didn't have at least 2 playable factions, and by playable, I mean somewhat equal in content.
World of W-A-R-C-R-A-F-T for example, during the original, population imbalance was crazy. Something like 8-9 alliance to every horde, and yet Blizzard didnt say "hey, lets scale back on horde since they dont make up much of the population". It wasn't until TBC when the alliance could reroll a "pretty" character, did the population normalize(and subsequently ruin the horde).
Federation fanboi's who claim we should not get any development attention are delusional. I love the star trek IP, and this is probably the only reason I stick around. If Cryptic doesn't stop running this game like a two-bit MMO, it's going to fail eventually.
This. I can't actually think of a MMO i have played that didn't have at least 2 playable factions, and by playable, I mean somewhat equal in content.
World of W-A-R-C-R-A-F-T for example, during the original, population imbalance was crazy. Something like 8-9 alliance to every horde, and yet Blizzard didnt say "hey, lets scale back on horde since they dont make up much of the population". It wasn't until TBC when the alliance could reroll a "pretty" character, did the population normalize(and subsequently ruin the horde).
Federation fanboi's who claim we should not get any development attention are delusional. I love the star trek IP, and this is probably the only reason I stick around. If Cryptic doesn't stop running this game like a two-bit MMO, it's going to fail eventually.
EDIT: why is W-A-R-C-R-A-F-T censored?
You are taking it out of context - the economy of WOW's development was WAY different then what MMO's face today.
I believe that they are making the business desision that neglecting the KDF is more profitable and sustainable longer term(all games end eventually) than putting the resources into more development
I will say for KDF fans - this sucks - but this is the way it is and the way it will continue and there is nothing that posted in these forums that will change that 1 inch.
I feel they are milking a rabid fanbase for quick money and possibly ignoring the KDF in the hopes that we can be used in a pinch when the feds stop buying evrything thats waved in front of them.
Still I can not fathom how one more post by a fedfan telling us KDF how hopeless our case is or how special the feds are can not be seen for the ego centric drivle it is?
Why should we KDF give up because a fedbase on a pedestal keeps telling us too?
Are the feds now proposing to tell us the measure of our fandom?
I understand why Cryptic won't give any information about the financial health of the game, but at some point they'll have to make a decision, and to be honnest, I know no healthy sci-fi or space-based MMO with a single playable faction.
You know 1 - your playing it - just how "healthly" finacially is up for debate.
And this talk of the KDF not being a "playable" faction is UTTER NON-SENSE
I feel they are milking a rabid fanbase for quick money and possibly ignoring the KDF in the hopes that we can be used in a pinch when the feds stop buying evrything thats waved in front of them.
Still I can not fathom how one more post by a fedfan telling us KDF how hopeless our case is or how special the feds are can not be seen for the ego centric drivle it is?
Why should we KDF give up because a fedbase on a pedestal keeps telling us too?
Are the feds now proposing to tell us the measure of our fandom?
If you are refering to me Roach - I don't know if it was this thread or the other one about the leech thing - but I said 'DON"T give up playing the KDF - that would be the worst thing to do'
I just think its better to have clear expectation that things will continue they way they have been going.
Does that suck for KDF only players - of course- but really you can't change it - but you still can play - maybe not the way you might want to - but we all want something we might never have.
I feel they are milking a rabid fanbase for quick money and possibly ignoring the KDF in the hopes that we can be used in a pinch when the feds stop buying evrything thats waved in front of them.
Still I can not fathom how one more post by a fedfan telling us KDF how hopeless our case is or how special the feds are can not be seen for the ego centric drivle it is?
Why should we KDF give up because a fedbase on a pedestal keeps telling us too?
Are the feds now proposing to tell us the measure of our fandom?
Well said Roach.
All this black painting how doomed the KDF is does nothing to change it.
You know 1 - your playing it - just how "healthly" finacially is up for debate.
And this talk of the KDF not being a "playable" faction is UTTER NON-SENSE
Well when you're forced to start the game as a fed, you'll probably keep this first character as "main character". That's what I do. I'm not a fan of the KDF, I just enjoy the different experience you get with this faction. And the fact is that I can't consider to fully switch to the KDF faction, because I know that there won't be enough new stuff/patches for the KDF in the near future, and that I don't intend to play the same repetitive content forever.
As I stated before, the lack of content is something general in STO, it's not specific to the KDF faction, but the fact is that the FED faction gets more new stuff to try while cryptic is trying to make some meaningful content for the game.
You say, We need accept the bussiness sense as presented
Yet you say, Dont quit playing KDF
Now you say, I dont believe the KDF is unplayable..... When no one said they where.....
You need to figure out what your trying to say, are we KDF not quit playing or accept nothing will change for us?
You point changes ever time you post or are challenged by another poster.
I say we KDF stick to our resolve and stop being forum entertainment for a few feds. Let them preach doom and gloom all they want. They do not own Cryptic or STO and we do not need convince the feds we need a full factional gameplay.
You say, We need accept the bussiness sense as presented
Yet you say, Dont quit playing KDF
Now you say, I dont believe the KDF is unplayable..... When no one said they where.....
You need to figure out what your trying to say, are we KDF not quit playing or accept nothing will change for us?
You point changes ever time you post or are challenged by another poster.
Nothing that you've quoted is contradictory or indicates a change in position. It is possible that he's saying that the KDF players should keep playing, despite development for them not being cost effective, because he believes the KDF is playable. See how, when you put them all together, they make a pretty coherent point?
I say we KDF stick to our resolve and stop being forum entertainment for a few feds. Let them preach doom and gloom all they want. They do not own Cryptic or STO and we do not need convince the feds we need a full factional gameplay.
Well you don't have to leave, in fact your feedback is valuable. I'd only ask that you lose the injured tone of self righteous betrayal. I mean, it all just seems so terribly unfair.
Nothing that you've quoted is contradictory or indicates a change in position. It is possible that he's saying that the KDF players should keep playing, despite development for them not being cost effective, because he believes the KDF is playable. See how, when you put them all together, they make a pretty coherent point?
Well you don't have to leave, in fact your feedback is valuable. I'd only ask that you lose the injured tone of self righteous betrayal. I mean, it all just seems so terribly unfair.
Its hardly the same thing to say do not quit but accept that nothing will change because you are not deemed important as the majority.
As well, where is this self righteous claims you say I spoutng? That we KDF should not give those feds whom tell us to accept our place creedence and we should stick to our desires, is self righteous?
Or that Cryptic and PWE having made public statements in the past of making the KDF complete should be kept becuase the fanbase expects it? Thats not self righteous, thats expecting Cryptic and PWE to honor thier words. Pure and simple. They should not say such things if they had no intentions of honoring them.
We KDF need to continue to let them know how we feel.
Guys keep playing - keep ranting too if you want - I am going to stop posting in this thread because it has well past the point of being useful.
I am not saying that you should not demand what you want and/or were led to believe you were going to get, just don't have such hope that you'll get it - better to expect nothing and be surprized then expect lots and be continually let down.
Now that the particulars have been established for us KDF fans, so we know where we are suppossed to sit and the like...
How do we fix the issue? What needs to be done to give the KDF a full measure of gameplay that finished the faction, satisfies the KDf fans and allows the game to move on to bigger and hopefully better level of play.
What would the KDf fans like to see for the faction?
I was very excited to create my KDF account- and then I got to the customization menu. The lack of options just in the costumes (so few items! So few colors! So few options!!) filled me with dread that unfortunately turned out to be well founded.
I want to play out this story on both sides. I want to see it through my Klingon's pov. But it's nearly impossible to enjoy it right now- the graphics are pathetic, the customization for characters is deplorable, the ships are... meh, unexciting at best I suppose.
I'm still waiting for some unique missions, and the story line is nothing to write home about.
When I play Fed there are endless options it seems for my characters; with so many automatic options the c-store options feel like icing on the cake. With so little to start with in KDF, the tiny amount of c-store items feels like robbery. If the basic options were fixed, then I would be happy to buy more.
As it is, I won't be spending anything on KDF or Fed.
(also is anyone else really bugged by the orion female sandals? on a whole the outfits and cosmetics are disappointing, but something about those sandals are just terrible to me!)
Its hardly the same thing to say do not quit but accept that nothing will change because you are not deemed important as the majority.
No, that is the same thing. His position is this. As they stand now the KDF is a playable faction. But because it represents a minority of the players it is not likely to ever receive the developer time being requested by many in this thread. Still, you should keep playing it because, going back to the start, the KDF is currently an enjoyable and playable faction. Nothing internally contradictory about that. You're welcome to disagree.
As well, where is this self righteous claims you say I spoutng?
Not you, just the Klingon player base in general. This entire thread is framed as a critique of how terribly unfair the KDF minority is treated. You've agreed with some criticisms, disagreed with others, but you've passed on every opportunity to address the underlying self rigthteous arrogance of the OP's premise. That the 16% minority in the KDF should be given as much, or more, development time as the Federation majority.
That we KDF should not give those feds whom tell us to accept our place creedence and we should stick to our desires, is self righteous?
If by not giving credence you mean 'ignore people who tell you stuff you don't like.' Then yes, that's self righteous.
Or that Cryptic and PWE having made public statements in the past of making the KDF complete should be kept becuase the fanbase expects it?
Well, you got me there, that's not self righteous.
Thats not self righteous, thats expecting Cryptic and PWE to honor thier words.
That's what I just said. No, it becomes self righteous when you, as a people, start assuming that honoring that promise NOW should take precedence over the long term viability of the game. It becomes self righteous when you, as a people, start framing a discussion of developer time and resources into a moral discussion of 'fairness' or start making asinine judgments about the developer's character because they're not caving immediately to your demands.
Pure and simple. They should not say such things if they had no intentions of honoring them.
Yeah yeah yeah, they're working on it. But if they stop developing the rest of the game just to finish this laundry list of demands that the KDF has, then there won't be an STO by the time they get done.
Last patch added how many end game ships to the KDF? 5, 6? Including the end game K'Tinga and the Tac-Heavy Vorcha-R that the KDF population has been demanding for a year now. The KDF has more end game ships than the Federation had at release, can we say that the KDF is "finished" at least in the ship department?
We KDF need to continue to let them know how we feel.
By all means, keep letting them know how you feel. But is it so wrong of me to wish that your faction, as a group, were a little less whiny and a little more reasonable while they're doing it? And productive, I could even deal with the whining if certain posters at least managed to whine productively.
So happy jermbot has decided to grace us with permission to voice our opinions when it comes to the KDF, as long as we do not come off as whiny in his opinion.
Trust me there is nothing self righteous about that. :rolleyes:
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
The bottom line is that KDF players have been told directly by Cryptic devs as recently as F2P launch that the KDF will be fully developed. There was no ambiguity there. F2P launch was months ago and what has the KDF received in that time? Zero faction-specific content. It's not self-righteous in any way, shape or form for KDF players to clamor for that which they've been waiting (and told was coming) 2-1/2 years for.
How do we fix the issue? What needs to be done to give the KDF a full measure of gameplay that finished the faction, satisfies the KDf fans and allows the game to move on to bigger and hopefully better level of play.
What would the KDf fans like to see for the faction?
How indeed. To be honest that question deserves it's own thread separate from the 'unfairness' sentiment of this thread.
Star Trek: Online - Now with 100% more dinosaurs!!
No, that is the same thing. His position is this. As they stand now the KDF is a playable faction. But because it represents a minority of the players it is not likely to ever receive the developer time being requested by many in this thread. Still, you should keep playing it because, going back to the start, the KDF is currently an enjoyable and playable faction. Nothing internally contradictory about that. You're welcome to disagree.
Not you, just the Klingon player base in general. This entire thread is framed as a critique of how terribly unfair the KDF minority is treated. You've agreed with some criticisms, disagreed with others, but you've passed on every opportunity to address the underlying self rigthteous arrogance of the OP's premise. That the 16% minority in the KDF should be given as much, or more, development time as the Federation majority.
If by not giving credence you mean 'ignore people who tell you stuff you don't like.' Then yes, that's self righteous.
Well, you got me there, that's not self righteous.
That's what I just said. No, it becomes self righteous when you, as a people, start assuming that honoring that promise NOW should take precedence over the long term viability of the game. It becomes self righteous when you, as a people, start framing a discussion of developer time and resources into a moral discussion of 'fairness' or start making asinine judgments about the developer's character because they're not caving immediately to your demands.
Yeah yeah yeah, they're working on it. But if they stop developing the rest of the game just to finish this laundry list of demands that the KDF has, then there won't be an STO by the time they get done.
Last patch added how many end game ships to the KDF? 5, 6? Including the end game K'Tinga and the Tac-Heavy Vorcha-R that the KDF population has been demanding for a year now. The KDF has more end game ships than the Federation had at release, can we say that the KDF is "finished" at least in the ship department?
Y
By all means, keep letting them know how you feel. But is it so wrong of me to wish that your faction, as a group, were a little less whiny and a little more reasonable while they're doing it? And productive, I could even deal with the whining if certain posters at least managed to whine productively.
Except he did express himself in that fashion, though you have done good job of defending him so.
This particular KDF fan is ranting, which he has a right to do. I merely think personal attacks against the Devs do no good. The OP has done nothing that has been seen before or even done by the feds.
Not giving creedence to what has been said about the KDF, we are lost, the Devs have given up on us, or that our place is set on stone in STO, is not self rightiuos. It means I heard what was said and choose not to accept it as fact just because SF omebody said it.
Or are we KDF now to take all that other players tell us as gospel without question?
Its not self rightious to expect fair treatement considering the statements made to the future growth of KDF in the past. Its not self rightiuos to not just forget the past but keep it in mind when we speak our continuing desires for a full KDF. Like feds some of us make demands others ask nicely. The OP is angry, so he demands. Its no different than other rants seen on the forums.
Your the one thinking we outspoken KDF want it all now. Thats your mistake. Many in this yhread and others want more but have been clear that it doesnt have to be now or even at the expense of the feds.
The hooray, we KDF need no new ships at the moment. Maybe the Devs could fix the other stuff we are lacking, like a storyline that makes sense or more costume options, or more Zstore items to be bought,etc etc.
But regardless how a unhappy KDF fan or even more realistic fans express themselves, the KDFs desire to have better level of gameplay must continue to be expressed.
The bottom line is that KDF players have been told directly by Cryptic devs as recently as F2P launch that the KDF will be fully developed. There was no ambiguity there. F2P launch was months ago and what has the KDF received in that time? Zero faction-specific content. It's not self-righteous in any way, shape or form for KDF players to clamor for that which they've been waiting (and told was coming) 2-1/2 years for.
How indeed. To be honest that question deserves it's own thread separate from the 'unfairness' sentiment of this thread.
I agree, a new thread is needed.
Though it will only work as long as its free of some feds whom seem to hate our "whining" but seem to follow us like vultures looking to "elighten" us to the reality of our situation.
I agree, a new thread is needed.
Though it will only work as long as its free of some feds whom seem to hate our "whining" but seem to follow us like vultures looking to "elighten" us to the reality of our situation.
Once the trolling starts its all downhill.
Well before this thread goes off - I want to add my KDF rant - why when I ask to Beam to First city do I end up in the shipyard - I have 4 toons so i am there 4x at least per day and at least 1 time if not 2 I run off the pad only to find out that i am in the shipyard!!
Come on Dev's this should be an easy fix - or is it "working as intended"?
Despite the short shrift which the KDF finds itself in receipt, we have so many great ships which measure up to lock box quality, and many are free to the faction! Just a garden variety level 40 Vor'cha stacks up against the lock box D'Kora, and Galor! The Kar'fi is still the absolute best carrier... period! There is nothing to compare with a Bird Of Prey. Nothing!
If you're not playing KDF, you're the one who is missing out.
Now that the particulars have been established for us KDF fans, so we know where we are suppossed to sit and the like...
How do we fix the issue? What needs to be done to give the KDF a full measure of gameplay that finished the faction, satisfies the KDf fans and allows the game to move on to bigger and hopefully better level of play.
What would the KDf fans like to see for the faction?
Well, they could start by fixing stuff that's broken.
The "First City Detour Bug", the Raptor turn axis and the K't'inga model that's been broken since Jan 2011.
The last on that list should be easy enough to do since it's just a reversal of the high- and low-res models.
With regards to what could be done to give us a more complete gameplay, I've made a thread about military scouts.
They could reuse a Raptor model with a few minor texture changes for that.
Recycling should be cheaper in this case and should nontheless yield decent results.
Not naouw, not yesterday, not next week.
But Tacofangs said when we give them feedback in a reasonable way they'd listen.
I've tried to give as complete a proposal as I can.
Let's see what happens.
Comments
Are you sure about this? Then it's 20% +1 since I'm definitely not a "fan" of klingons, I'm just enjoying the red faction (as I enjoy my fed chars) in this game. I would enjoy Romulans a lot more and probably mirror fed too. I's just the evil faction you have in every balanced game. And I'm sure there are many people like me.
After all it's not a convention, it's just a game. Many people seems to forget that.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Hmm, didn't say they were neglecting the feds. Your response has wasted my time and yours.
Actually, we don't ALL KNOW that it's a bull**** number, and if I have to choose between the numbers provided by a developer who has access to log in statistics or a random forum goer who can't form a coherent argument. I'm going to take the word of the guy with numbers because all you've offered is wishful thinking.
How do conventions have any connection with an MMO?
And has anyone considered how much more difficult it is to properly dress as a Klingon with full makeup than it is to put on a Starfleet shirt?
Not to mention that it's a lot easier and cheaper to buy said shirt than it is to get a Klingon costume?
Seriously, I don't get this.
First the "real" number that that Stahl was basing things around months ago was 16% - the fact is, only he really knows for sure what the number of KDF only and FED who also have an active KDF toon is - and he is not publishing it as fact.
Also only they know how much money is being spent on KDF stuff - no-one else on this board does.
So they should ONLY put stuff in the game which will maximize revenue and profits - this is a tight industry and you have to stay profitable or eventually you will get the axe.
Sorry but if it cost 1 dollar to make a ship Fed or KDF and your stats show your return on making a FED ship will be $3 dollars and you return on the KDF ship will be break even - only a moron in the business world would choose to make the KDF ship.
A bird within a few tries can be condition which light to peck blue/Fed - Red/Kdf bassed on how much reward it gives out
Why is it so hard for KDF players to fiqure this out?
There are very few KDF players that dispute the fact that in the current scheme of things, Fed development is where the money is. That's obvious. The only morons of this story are the guys that created this system, and then defend it by saying "but our numbers show..." Tell me, what other numbers can there be? They're comparing their sales figures of Fed. C-store sales to what exactly? KDF C-store items that are nearly a year old already, and more? KDF players have bought that content already... OBVIOUSLY, the slant is going to be towards the sales of NEW Fed content. Whats so difficult to understand there?
I think overall, and I speak only for myself when I say this, is that the KDF is in this state because it's neglected. Sure people will play Fed more, because that's where all the development of new stuff is taking place.
Cryptic scaled back on KDF, forcing this situation to play out. They gave their clients something of value, which these clients had paid for, and then they took it away. (e.g. half the KDF levels were scrapped for no reason at all, other than making it appear that on the surface the KDF was complete.)
Despite that, I do not believed that in the greater scheme of things it was a sound decision.
If the KDF was brought-up to parity in terms of content and items, more people would play.
Many MMO have two fully developped factions or more. It has nothing to do with the number of fans, and it's something I'm not sure the executives in cryptic get. A good faction isn't a faction you would support in geek conventions; this is a laughable way to avoid doing a serious market study. It's just a matter of opportunities for players, and you'll see many people choosing the 'evil'/red faction without being fans of evil, death, or whatever weird idea you'll find about it, but only because this red faction offers an interesting game experience.
In the same way, I'm not sure EA makes market studies about the number of factions their star wars game can fully support by counting the number of idiots wandering in Darth Vader costumes in conventions. This wouldn't be serious at all.
I understand why Cryptic won't give any information about the financial health of the game, but at some point they'll have to make a decision, and to be honnest, I know no healthy sci-fi or space-based MMO with a single playable faction.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
I agree - more people would play KDF - however- I do not agree that it would be enough to warrent the cost of making it to that point.
Right now with the economy and the decline in game sales across the board in the order of billions of dollars - it is way to risky from PWE to take on anything that is not GUAREETEED to be a safe winner
And I don't by the KDF is not playable - it's simple bull**** - I jusy Bought up my 4th KDF to lvl 50 and I am using her in a Heavy bop - doing STF and some other things - I don't find much difference than Fed side
PvP is dead and done in this game - forever and ever - it's a non-issue and non starter so what else?
This. I can't actually think of a MMO i have played that didn't have at least 2 playable factions, and by playable, I mean somewhat equal in content.
World of W-A-R-C-R-A-F-T for example, during the original, population imbalance was crazy. Something like 8-9 alliance to every horde, and yet Blizzard didnt say "hey, lets scale back on horde since they dont make up much of the population". It wasn't until TBC when the alliance could reroll a "pretty" character, did the population normalize(and subsequently ruin the horde).
Federation fanboi's who claim we should not get any development attention are delusional. I love the star trek IP, and this is probably the only reason I stick around. If Cryptic doesn't stop running this game like a two-bit MMO, it's going to fail eventually.
EDIT: why is W-A-R-C-R-A-F-T censored?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpfbJLLbczs
You are taking it out of context - the economy of WOW's development was WAY different then what MMO's face today.
I believe that they are making the business desision that neglecting the KDF is more profitable and sustainable longer term(all games end eventually) than putting the resources into more development
I will say for KDF fans - this sucks - but this is the way it is and the way it will continue and there is nothing that posted in these forums that will change that 1 inch.
Still I can not fathom how one more post by a fedfan telling us KDF how hopeless our case is or how special the feds are can not be seen for the ego centric drivle it is?
Why should we KDF give up because a fedbase on a pedestal keeps telling us too?
Are the feds now proposing to tell us the measure of our fandom?
R.I.P
You know 1 - your playing it - just how "healthly" finacially is up for debate.
And this talk of the KDF not being a "playable" faction is UTTER NON-SENSE
If you are refering to me Roach - I don't know if it was this thread or the other one about the leech thing - but I said 'DON"T give up playing the KDF - that would be the worst thing to do'
I just think its better to have clear expectation that things will continue they way they have been going.
Does that suck for KDF only players - of course- but really you can't change it - but you still can play - maybe not the way you might want to - but we all want something we might never have.
Well said Roach.
All this black painting how doomed the KDF is does nothing to change it.
Well when you're forced to start the game as a fed, you'll probably keep this first character as "main character". That's what I do. I'm not a fan of the KDF, I just enjoy the different experience you get with this faction. And the fact is that I can't consider to fully switch to the KDF faction, because I know that there won't be enough new stuff/patches for the KDF in the near future, and that I don't intend to play the same repetitive content forever.
As I stated before, the lack of content is something general in STO, it's not specific to the KDF faction, but the fact is that the FED faction gets more new stuff to try while cryptic is trying to make some meaningful content for the game.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
You say , Nothing will change for the KDF
You say, We need accept the bussiness sense as presented
Yet you say, Dont quit playing KDF
Now you say, I dont believe the KDF is unplayable..... When no one said they where.....
You need to figure out what your trying to say, are we KDF not quit playing or accept nothing will change for us?
You point changes ever time you post or are challenged by another poster.
I say we KDF stick to our resolve and stop being forum entertainment for a few feds. Let them preach doom and gloom all they want. They do not own Cryptic or STO and we do not need convince the feds we need a full factional gameplay.
R.I.P
Nothing that you've quoted is contradictory or indicates a change in position. It is possible that he's saying that the KDF players should keep playing, despite development for them not being cost effective, because he believes the KDF is playable. See how, when you put them all together, they make a pretty coherent point?
Well you don't have to leave, in fact your feedback is valuable. I'd only ask that you lose the injured tone of self righteous betrayal. I mean, it all just seems so terribly unfair.
As well, where is this self righteous claims you say I spoutng? That we KDF should not give those feds whom tell us to accept our place creedence and we should stick to our desires, is self righteous?
Or that Cryptic and PWE having made public statements in the past of making the KDF complete should be kept becuase the fanbase expects it? Thats not self righteous, thats expecting Cryptic and PWE to honor thier words. Pure and simple. They should not say such things if they had no intentions of honoring them.
We KDF need to continue to let them know how we feel.
R.I.P
I am not saying that you should not demand what you want and/or were led to believe you were going to get, just don't have such hope that you'll get it - better to expect nothing and be surprized then expect lots and be continually let down.
Good luck
People still play STO?
Not me.
Joined near Release.
Paid way too much (Lifer n CE)
Never got a KDF Faction that was more than a "Monster Faction"
They've got all the money they'll get from me.
They won't care, too many idiots buying Keys.
U-Tube /watch?v=IpfbJLLbczs (KDF Trailer from Oct 23, 2009)
Watching the trailer makes me want to play, then I remember the sad State the KDF is in and all that goes away.
"...just look at my track record for making the improvements that I said we would with the KDF and judge by that." - Dan Stahl
How do we fix the issue? What needs to be done to give the KDF a full measure of gameplay that finished the faction, satisfies the KDf fans and allows the game to move on to bigger and hopefully better level of play.
What would the KDf fans like to see for the faction?
R.I.P
I want to play out this story on both sides. I want to see it through my Klingon's pov. But it's nearly impossible to enjoy it right now- the graphics are pathetic, the customization for characters is deplorable, the ships are... meh, unexciting at best I suppose.
I'm still waiting for some unique missions, and the story line is nothing to write home about.
When I play Fed there are endless options it seems for my characters; with so many automatic options the c-store options feel like icing on the cake. With so little to start with in KDF, the tiny amount of c-store items feels like robbery. If the basic options were fixed, then I would be happy to buy more.
As it is, I won't be spending anything on KDF or Fed.
(also is anyone else really bugged by the orion female sandals? on a whole the outfits and cosmetics are disappointing, but something about those sandals are just terrible to me!)
No, that is the same thing. His position is this. As they stand now the KDF is a playable faction. But because it represents a minority of the players it is not likely to ever receive the developer time being requested by many in this thread. Still, you should keep playing it because, going back to the start, the KDF is currently an enjoyable and playable faction. Nothing internally contradictory about that. You're welcome to disagree.
Not you, just the Klingon player base in general. This entire thread is framed as a critique of how terribly unfair the KDF minority is treated. You've agreed with some criticisms, disagreed with others, but you've passed on every opportunity to address the underlying self rigthteous arrogance of the OP's premise. That the 16% minority in the KDF should be given as much, or more, development time as the Federation majority.
If by not giving credence you mean 'ignore people who tell you stuff you don't like.' Then yes, that's self righteous.
Well, you got me there, that's not self righteous.
That's what I just said. No, it becomes self righteous when you, as a people, start assuming that honoring that promise NOW should take precedence over the long term viability of the game. It becomes self righteous when you, as a people, start framing a discussion of developer time and resources into a moral discussion of 'fairness' or start making asinine judgments about the developer's character because they're not caving immediately to your demands.
Yeah yeah yeah, they're working on it. But if they stop developing the rest of the game just to finish this laundry list of demands that the KDF has, then there won't be an STO by the time they get done.
Last patch added how many end game ships to the KDF? 5, 6? Including the end game K'Tinga and the Tac-Heavy Vorcha-R that the KDF population has been demanding for a year now. The KDF has more end game ships than the Federation had at release, can we say that the KDF is "finished" at least in the ship department?
By all means, keep letting them know how you feel. But is it so wrong of me to wish that your faction, as a group, were a little less whiny and a little more reasonable while they're doing it? And productive, I could even deal with the whining if certain posters at least managed to whine productively.
Trust me there is nothing self righteous about that. :rolleyes:
How indeed. To be honest that question deserves it's own thread separate from the 'unfairness' sentiment of this thread.
Except he did express himself in that fashion, though you have done good job of defending him so.
This particular KDF fan is ranting, which he has a right to do. I merely think personal attacks against the Devs do no good. The OP has done nothing that has been seen before or even done by the feds.
Not giving creedence to what has been said about the KDF, we are lost, the Devs have given up on us, or that our place is set on stone in STO, is not self rightiuos. It means I heard what was said and choose not to accept it as fact just because SF omebody said it.
Or are we KDF now to take all that other players tell us as gospel without question?
Its not self rightious to expect fair treatement considering the statements made to the future growth of KDF in the past. Its not self rightiuos to not just forget the past but keep it in mind when we speak our continuing desires for a full KDF. Like feds some of us make demands others ask nicely. The OP is angry, so he demands. Its no different than other rants seen on the forums.
Your the one thinking we outspoken KDF want it all now. Thats your mistake. Many in this yhread and others want more but have been clear that it doesnt have to be now or even at the expense of the feds.
The hooray, we KDF need no new ships at the moment. Maybe the Devs could fix the other stuff we are lacking, like a storyline that makes sense or more costume options, or more Zstore items to be bought,etc etc.
But regardless how a unhappy KDF fan or even more realistic fans express themselves, the KDFs desire to have better level of gameplay must continue to be expressed.
R.I.P
I agree, a new thread is needed.
Though it will only work as long as its free of some feds whom seem to hate our "whining" but seem to follow us like vultures looking to "elighten" us to the reality of our situation.
Once the trolling starts its all downhill.
R.I.P
Well before this thread goes off - I want to add my KDF rant - why when I ask to Beam to First city do I end up in the shipyard - I have 4 toons so i am there 4x at least per day and at least 1 time if not 2 I run off the pad only to find out that i am in the shipyard!!
Come on Dev's this should be an easy fix - or is it "working as intended"?
If you're not playing KDF, you're the one who is missing out.
Member since December 2009
Well, they could start by fixing stuff that's broken.
The "First City Detour Bug", the Raptor turn axis and the K't'inga model that's been broken since Jan 2011.
The last on that list should be easy enough to do since it's just a reversal of the high- and low-res models.
With regards to what could be done to give us a more complete gameplay, I've made a thread about military scouts.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=374791
They could reuse a Raptor model with a few minor texture changes for that.
Recycling should be cheaper in this case and should nontheless yield decent results.
Not naouw, not yesterday, not next week.
But Tacofangs said when we give them feedback in a reasonable way they'd listen.
I've tried to give as complete a proposal as I can.
Let's see what happens.