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Dilithium Exchange update = 50 - 750 dil per Zen ...just a COSMETIC change hmmm?
zerobang
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
zer0niusrex wrote: »[*]Updated the max price of one Zen on the Dilithium exchange to 750 Dilithium.
- This is part of the conversion to Zen.
- The valid price range is now 50 to 750.
Dilithium Exchange NERF!
Zen Points are worth 20% LESS than C-Points.
( 100 ZEN = 80 CP )
a 1:1 conversion of the exchange rate would be 40 - 400 from dilithium to Zen
NOT 50 - 750 !!!
we already have to get 20% more *points* for our dilithium in this player driven economy as it is (which probably means stuff will be harder to get because the C-Point sellers have a 20% higher range to play with).
to make the math example:
old range with c-point
8000 dil @500 = 16 C-Points
8000 dil @50 = 160 C-Points
new range with zen
8000 dil @750 = 10,6 Zen = 8 C-Points
8000 dil @50 = 160 Zen or 128 C-Points
thats what our playtime is worth now ???
"cosmetic change"... yeah sure... :mad:
Post edited by zerobang on
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plus, the conversion isn't done yet. there's no need to rage yet.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Dec/2008
Except for those of us trying to do the Dil -> Z exchange. :P
To be honest, I'm waiting to see what s6 does to prices.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
*points at red text*
...nope
....
the real joke here is that it will make them LESS money.
here are 2 mindsets at work
1: people with money who want to buy dil
2: people with time who want to sell dil
if dil is worth less than before than Cryptic will sell less C-Point / Z-Point for $ to sell our limited "time based currency" to the man.
= less $ for cryptic.
If they think that we dilithium sellers will turn around and pay $ again because they increase the grind they are dead wrong. ...we have time, we can wait.
The only thing that happens is that we will move less $-currency out of the system that way over time.
If anything they should aim to make dilithium worth more so people have to spend MORE $ to get their... Mk XI purple deflector dish they don't care to grind for.
I just want to understand what the F they are thinking, because it makes no sense either way.
But ok after 2+ years i should be used to that kind of illogical behavior.
After the 30% dilithium heist i don't expect them to accept any kind of feedback either.
I just want to understand WHY, because it makes no sense whatsoever.
They make life for the f2p-ers harder and loose money by handing out more dil for less $ to the paying customer.
While at the same time they keep pushing item C-Store prices up and up and up...
1200 for a ship was OK,
1600 was painful,
2000 is just ... no more words
4000 CP packs for 3x the same ship + consoles are just Eve Monocle style.
Did they suddenly notice that more people buy their items if the prices are low?
Or do they think we who are not paying anymore for whatever reason (i think i've invested enough with my LTA + $800 of C-Store fluff over time) are going to turn around and spend $ again if they TRIBBLE with the dil prices enough that it isn't worth it anymore for us?
Those are the 2 options i see...
if there is a 3rd please tell me.
If this was all they're gonna do with the conversion, then your opinion is warranted. but right now, it is POINTLESS to judge based on incomplete results.
It's better to wait
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
But we can never have enough "PWE SUX/STO IS DOOMED" threads.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
Dec/2008
looks pretty final to me,
https://support.perfectworld.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4136/~/cryptic-points-are-converting-to-zen
not sure what you think you are waiting for...?
oh and it get's better
Champions Exchange Range will be 50 - 650 instead of 50 - 750
that does... not look random at all right?
Cryptic needs to make money. if people grind more, as they would if this was fair on the dilithium exchange, then they make less money.
plus let's face it, any serious dilithium grinder will not seriously be affected by this update anyway. those who want to buy will still buy, and those who who don't know which to do will decide on their own thoughts, not what anyone else says... like you're trying to do
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
With the change to zen where getting 25% more points for our IRL money, to keep the IRL to in game store currancy ratios the same as now the prices of thsoe points are going to have to shoot up 25%, so the cap need to rise by at least this much. Of course it's obvious they've increased it beyond that, but thats no suprise, the CP per Dill has been creeping up steadilly for a while now, (bassiclly since i started). It was going to start smaking the cap inside another 8-12 months anyway, so it's only natural to raise it.
Though IMHo the whole system is borked if you ask me. By the very nature of F2P there's going to be a lot more people wanting cp's than peiople short of dilithium. The only thing stopping the price capping atm is that no ones that desperae for dilithium amongst the long timers, (the ones most likliy to have lots of spare cp's). When season 6 hits and we have a ton more stuff to spend dilithium on expect the price to cap within weeks and stay there permanantly until the vast majority of flee have spent the majority of the dilithium they';re going to, even then it will stay high.
Really systems like LOTRO's are vastly better,. You can only get so many free points per player, but the points littrially come out of nowhere. There's never any requierment for anyone to buy the point you earn for you to earn them. And there's just enough to le you get a few important things on the way up without giving you so many you can't benefit from buying quiet a few more. But then it's clear to me PWE and Cryptic really missed the oast on what F2P is all about and how it works best, (at least in a western enviroment, i'm aware of micro payment korean mmo's).
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=4374141&postcount=72
TLDR? :
Finally will the Dilithium to Zen exchange rate be different to the Dilithium to Cpoint exchange rate? Undoubtedly so. But as I explained above the dollar value you will be obtaining will be the same. If for example 330 dil gets you 1 cpoint at present (or 1.25/100 dollars in real world terms), then I would guesstimate that once the change happens then 264 dil should get you 1 zen (1/100 dollar in real terms (330 x 0.8)). Now the dil market is player driven so this may or may not happen but in a perfect scenario this would be the outcome.
As others say however, as this will be undoubtedly done at same time as most of season 6 hits, the dil market might be a bit volatile till it settles down.
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Your sig quote is off, I'm pretty sure it's;
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a fish a man and he's good for a whole year!
:P
Uh, no.
Everything in the CStore costs CP (soon to be Zen). If you buy your CP directly from Cryptic, or from someone else who bought it directly from Cryptic then Cryptic still gets their money. Cryptic always gets their money no matter how much you grind. That $25 ship will always be $25.
The only exception here is "promotional points"... however they aren't free either, and exist in specific amounts regardless of anyone's grind.
and when i said 'make less money', i was implying more people ONLY grinded dilithilum, no spending anything. this means less people buy C-Store points/Zen directly from Cryptic/PW, thus = less money
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
However people are buying CP to sell it for Dilithium, so they can buy ships, weapons, and the like. Cryptic is still making their money, just through different people. The $25 ship is always $25 no matter how much you grind no one ever gets it without $25 going into Cryptic's pocket, and $25 worth of CP disappearing forever from the Dilithium Exchange.
Cryptic. Always. Gets. Paid. That's the "brilliance" (deviousness?) of making the Dilithium/CP Exchange being the "in-game" method of store item acquisition, it's also why the ability to buy store ships for Emblems/Marks didn't transfer over so people could buy them with Dilithium directly... because then people could get ships without Cryptic getting their money.
if the person pays with real-life money, that's their choice. for the individual though, it's none of their concern, because they only have to worry about their own payments (or grinding, whichever they choose)
it seems to me your issue is completely different from the one i'm saying...
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The current range is 50 to 500. As in, you cannot sell or buy a Cryptic Point for less than 50 dilithium or more than 500. The range is a price control.
The new range is 50 to 750 dilithium per Zen.
10 Zen = 8 Cryptic points. Zen are worth 125% the same numerical amount of Cryptic Points.
Therefore 750 dilithium for 1 Zen is the same as 500 dilithium for 1 Cryptic Point. The upper limit of the exchange is being preserved here.
The only change is that the effective lower limit is being lowered. They would be preserving the value if they changed the allowed range to be 75 to 750 but they are effectively lowering the low end amount, which means that they're allowing for the possibility that a demand for C-store currency will be lower and demand for dilithium will be higher. It's the equivalent of shifting the current lower allowed range from 50 to 40.
I suspect this is just for the sake of a clean, recognizable lower range number but if Zen ever did sell at that lower range, it would mean that you could get 1 Zen for 50 dilithium. I'd love that. It would also probably mean that the game would be at a point where it is built around being totally subsidized off dilithium sales or one where the game is at a very low activity point.
It probably is more relevant to Champions, where store cash sells closer to the exchange's lower limit.
the fact is that other than the name, nothing is really changing, and no one is losing any value on anything. the numbers are different, and they may seem larger, but on the bare bones they have the exact same value as before
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I don't see how anyone could ever get enough to be worth anything unless they are totally focused only on dilithium and nothing else, seriously.
Am I missing something? Or is there some ocean of dilithium that I'm totally unaware of?
Join Date: Sep 2008
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: CHANGE THE FORUMS BACK !!!
I can make 10k Dilithium in a week simply from casually playing Elite STFs with my fleet. You can run the long Deferi daily once a day and make in excess of 8k in a week. And these are strictly casual things; both take only about an hour, and I'm not even a stellar player. Even if you can't play daily, say maybe you can only play twice a week for about an hour at a time, you should still be able to rack up in excess of 2k a week. Hell, even the trickle from DOffing can add up if you're good about confiscating contraband and turning it in for 2k a mission.
It's stupidly easy to make dilithium in this game even if you don't grind hardcore. I've made enough for an advanced fighter in the last three weeks alone, on just one toon. Made a bit more on others I've played.
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Ayup. Yet another thread raging about conversion rates by people that can't seem do simple math.
And also once again demonstrating, contrary to what some fan-based mediums may try to say about this community, that the "trek" fans in this game and on these forums are no more intelligent than any other group of individuals.
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You're definitely missing something.
I had enough for one of the Dil ships (120,000) in under a month (two characters).
KDF side has more Dil awards, BTW.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
Last I saw, it was 350 dilithium per C-point. The range is 50 to 500. One full day's refinement of 8000 dilithium should net over 22 C-points.
If your goal is to keep the value of a day intact, you'd want 8000 dilithium to net around 28 zen.
Comparing the extremes, if dilithium was selling at 50 per C-point, you'd expect to get 160 C-points for your work or 200 Zen. If dilithium was selling at 500 per C-point, you'd expect to get 16 C-points or 20 Zen. As far as I know, the exchange, in practice, has always offered between 16 and 40 C-points per day's work, or 20 to 50 zen. To the best of my knowledge, nobody ever got substantially more or less.
The new ranges will get you between 10 and 160 zen in a day's work, as minimums and maximums. It is a lower ceiling and floor for C-points per day. However, dilithium has never been worth 50 per C-point so nobody ever made 200 Zen worth of store credit in a day. At most, someone has made around 50 and at worst they've made around 20.
In the new ranges, it's still possible to make 20-50 if people value work the same.
Now, when this hits Champs, it's a different story. There, people could get 160 C-points or 200 zen in a day. So this will slow down C-point accumulation from buyers there, decreasing the value of Questionite if the same changes happen there. This will lower the practical max value for Questionite there but that just pushes people there to spend more money directly on the C-store or try to be more active in game to get more questionite for the same cash shop foals rather than indirectly for Questionite.
All dilithium or Questionite is earned. Not all C-points exist as a result of people spending money. Effectively, a lifer's stipend post-payoff point is Cryptic counterfeiting money in its virtual economy. There is no productivity driving those stipends, either in the form of player activity or real world economic activity.
An exchange which is too favorable for the acquisition of C-points/Zen will lead to diminished player activity without any real cash investment to back that up. (ie. you buy out the store using other people's stipends and they already have everything they want from the C-store.) There's a glut of free points in Champs, I'd guess and this will correct for that slightly.
In STO, it doesn't necessitate any change unless player perception drives one because the historical value ranges here are still possible within the new parameters.
I think this change is being made for the sake of Champions/Neverwinter.
In the former, it shores things up by reducing the cash value of what can be earned per day. In the latter, it shores things up by being prepared for what they probably anticipate to be a much larger player base that will generate the time currency at a much higher rate even with an 8k a day per alt cap. If the NW dil counterpart is more common, the buying power will be lower and 500 per point might inflate its value.
Just my guess.
The other possibility might be if they have plans to adjust the refinement cap or let fleets refine additional dilithium somehow.