The current range is 50 to 500. As in, you cannot sell or buy a Cryptic Point for less than 50 dilithium or more than 500. The range is a price control.
The new range is 50 to 750 dilithium per Zen.
10 Zen = 8 Cryptic points. Zen are worth 125% the same numerical amount of Cryptic Points.
Therefore 750 dilithium for 1 Zen is the same as 500 dilithium for 1 Cryptic Point. The upper limit of the exchange is being preserved here.
500 dilithium for 1 CP is 625 dilithium for 1 zen (500 x 1.25 = 625). . . not 750.
PWE has essentially raised the cap to 600 dilithium (600 x 1.25 = 750). . . most likely in anticipation for the rise in demand caused by starbase reqs.
Ok so star bases will drive up the demand for dil. If the demand for Dil is high then a person selling dil gets the name his price. Why would that make a dil farmer upset? I thought that a person who had an item that was in demand would get a better deal than a person who had the item not in demand. AKA why would it suddenly be 750 dil to buy a zen. More demand for dil would make the Zen cheaper not the Dil.
As i understand it if you ask for more Dil per point than a seller is offering it goes onto the buy CP list. And if you ask for more CP's per dil than the buy cp's list is offering it goes onto the Sell Dil list.
Basic common sense says the CP sellers can name their price knowing that anyone that needs the cp's asap will buy it at any level of inflated price.
I expect the dilithium price to go up like crazy. Did you check out the starbases? You need millions of dilithium (I estimate 6 and 7 million for the complete thing, but it might be much more). For the huge fleets that will fight over who can even contribute stuff this won't be a problem.
But the common trend these days seemed to be to tell everyone to make their own small fleet because small fleets would be so much better off with Starbases. Well I tell them that they are in a world of hurt with endless Dilithium grinding. I created a private fleet with just three of my friends too, but after seeing the numbers on Tribble I'm considering opening it up a bit after all. Even with multiple alts farming 8000 dilithium daily, the required amounts will hurt. It seems much more attractive to buy a few hundred thousand dilithium instead. I don't think I'll be the only one thinking that.
Price needs setting between 50 and 350 and HARD CAPPED at that
This will sell more Cp's/zen
it will also stop the constant market "trading" of the Maddoff of Borg types
(and yes I usually SELL cp's at 250)
The thing is, it isn't just about selling directly or they would cut out the middle man and sell directly. It's about managing activity, keeping it up while also keeping it from rising to an unprofitable point where hardcore players dominate.
The target value of dilithium needs to fluctuate based on the number of players, number of active alts they have, amount of activity, availability of ore and refinement options, and number of C-points floating. They also need dumps that exceed the stipend points floating.
If they were only concerned with the direct aspect of monetization, they could simply mint fresh dilithium for C-Points. They sort of do at a low rate through Doff packs. The point of the added complexity is to manage activity and adapt to player population and activity level. It's business calculus, not simple arithmetic. Managing activity has design benefits but is also useful for managing socialization, which influences the effective value and sales of C-store items; the value of vanity items is contingent in socialization in part because vanity is rooted in being seen and being seen with vanity items advertises them.
The number 750 listed in the FAQ was preliminary, not the final number. Sorry that we let an incorrect number get into the FAQ. When the Zen conversion goes live, the new minimum price will be 25 Dilithium for 1 Zen, and the maximum price will be 500 Dilithium for 1 Zen. The FAQ has been updated to reflect the correct numbers.
A straight conversion of the Dilithium Exchange minimum and maximum prices based on the 1.25:1 price ratio of Cryptic Points to Zen would have resulted in a price range of 40 to 400. We are increasing the range a bit at both ends (25 to 500) just as a precaution since we expect some price volatility due to the increased demand for Dilithium that will result from the release of fleet starbases.
In all likelihood this change won?t really matter, since the prices in the exchange are set by players based on supply and demand of the two currencies (CPoints/Zen and Dilithium). Since the first day that the Dilithium Exchange was turned on, there have been no trades near either the high or low limit and I don?t expect that to change. The current price for 1 Cryptic Point is around 340 Dilithium. After the Zen conversion I expect that price for 1 Zen to be around 272 Dilithium, which would give players the same dollar value for their Dilithium as before the conversion. After season 6 launches, I expect that this number will go down as Dilithium is more in demand and increases in value versus Zen.
The number 750 listed in the FAQ was preliminary, not the final number. Sorry that we let an incorrect number get into the FAQ. When the Zen conversion goes live, the new minimum price will be 25 Dilithium for 1 Zen, and the maximum price will be 500 Dilithium for 1 Zen. The FAQ has been updated to reflect the correct numbers.
A straight conversion of the Dilithium Exchange minimum and maximum prices based on the 1.25:1 price ratio of Cryptic Points to Zen would have resulted in a price range of 40 to 400. We are increasing the range a bit at both ends (25 to 500) just as a precaution since we expect some price volatility due to the increased demand for Dilithium that will result from the release of fleet starbases.
In all likelihood this change won?t really matter, since the prices in the exchange are set by players based on supply and demand of the two currencies (CPoints/Zen and Dilithium). Since the first day that the Dilithium Exchange was turned on, there have been no trades near either the high or low limit and I don?t expect that to change. The current price for 1 Cryptic Point is around 340 Dilithium. After the Zen conversion I expect that price for 1 Zen to be around 272 Dilithium, which would give players the same dollar value for their Dilithium as before the conversion. After season 6 launches, I expect that this number will go down as Dilithium is more in demand and increases in value versus Zen.
Thank you rehpic
old range with c-point
8000 dil @500 = 16 C-Points
8000 dil @50 = 160 C-Points
old new range with zen
8000 dil @750 = 10,6 Zen = 8 C-Points
8000 dil @50 = 160 Zen or 128 C-Points
Accurate Rehpic range with zen
8000 dil @500 = 20 Zen = 16 C-Points
8000 dil @25 = 320 Zen = 256 C-Points
...
but but but that means that at the top end, nothing changed and at the bottom end is worth MORE!!
That surely can't be correct! PW is SUPPOSED to be TRIBBLE over their customers!...
The number 750 listed in the FAQ was preliminary, not the final number. Sorry that we let an incorrect number get into the FAQ. When the Zen conversion goes live, the new minimum price will be 25 Dilithium for 1 Zen, and the maximum price will be 500 Dilithium for 1 Zen. The FAQ has been updated to reflect the correct numbers.
A straight conversion of the Dilithium Exchange minimum and maximum prices based on the 1.25:1 price ratio of Cryptic Points to Zen would have resulted in a price range of 40 to 400. We are increasing the range a bit at both ends (25 to 500) just as a precaution since we expect some price volatility due to the increased demand for Dilithium that will result from the release of fleet starbases.
In all likelihood this change won?t really matter, since the prices in the exchange are set by players based on supply and demand of the two currencies (CPoints/Zen and Dilithium). Since the first day that the Dilithium Exchange was turned on, there have been no trades near either the high or low limit and I don?t expect that to change. The current price for 1 Cryptic Point is around 340 Dilithium. After the Zen conversion I expect that price for 1 Zen to be around 272 Dilithium, which would give players the same dollar value for their Dilithium as before the conversion. After season 6 launches, I expect that this number will go down as Dilithium is more in demand and increases in value versus Zen.
The number 750 listed in the FAQ was preliminary, not the final number. Sorry that we let an incorrect number get into the FAQ. When the Zen conversion goes live, the new minimum price will be 25 Dilithium for 1 Zen, and the maximum price will be 500 Dilithium for 1 Zen. The FAQ has been updated to reflect the correct numbers.
A straight conversion of the Dilithium Exchange minimum and maximum prices based on the 1.25:1 price ratio of Cryptic Points to Zen would have resulted in a price range of 40 to 400. We are increasing the range a bit at both ends (25 to 500) just as a precaution since we expect some price volatility due to the increased demand for Dilithium that will result from the release of fleet starbases.
In all likelihood this change won?t really matter, since the prices in the exchange are set by players based on supply and demand of the two currencies (CPoints/Zen and Dilithium). Since the first day that the Dilithium Exchange was turned on, there have been no trades near either the high or low limit and I don?t expect that to change. The current price for 1 Cryptic Point is around 340 Dilithium. After the Zen conversion I expect that price for 1 Zen to be around 272 Dilithium, which would give players the same dollar value for their Dilithium as before the conversion. After season 6 launches, I expect that this number will go down as Dilithium is more in demand and increases in value versus Zen.
so . . . you're going to raise the Refine Dilithium cap from 8,000 per day to 10,000 a day, right?
Q: Because the amount I have will go up, what does this mean for C-Store prices?
C-Store prices will be adjusted to reflect the conversion. It may appear more expensive at first, because all prices are going to be multiplied by 1.25, like your Cryptic Point balance. For example, an item priced at 80 Cryptic Points would be re-priced at 100 Zen. This makes the price of this item look larger, but it is the same value as before.
if C-store prices are going up by 25% then our daily refine limit should go up 25% also
First of all, any change made to the system, is not made because PWE is losing money. It's not made for them to make less profit either. Firstly all of you people who think they are not making any profit after going f2p need to learn economics. "But you can farm dil and not spend anything!!" Right you sure can. But someone had to spend the $25 for you to buy the cp/zen for that ship.
"Cryptic/PWE sells cp on the exchange". Yes of course they do, don't be silly. If they didn't this "player based" economy you guys keep crying about would be alot higher than the current 350ish per cp. When players spike the prices, the company starts dragging it down a little. Why is this? Also, why have they allowed it to go from the 180ish it was when I started to the 350ish it is now?????
That's simple as well. They want a steady increase in the exchange to a point. However, making it a spike and holding it there, or forcing the prices to skyrocket is the easiest way to lose customers. A steady increase will make people more unlikely to spend money on cp/zen to do so because it's taking that much longer to grind dil for your ships. Driving off a potiental customer base by forcing a market to skyrocket is not how they make money.
By introducing their own cp/zen into the system they are able to control, to a point, the spikes and dips in the market. Please stop calling it a 'player controlled economy' it really shows a lack of intelligence. I could continue to try to explain what I'm trying to say, but the chances are if you haven't gotten it by now you won't because you know everything.
Bottom line here, PWE is not losing money, they are not working for free. In fact I have to give them credit, their economic department needs to be working for the president to fix the deficeit. they're good.
the refining cap I think was an effort to prevent any single player affecting the in game economy. It is not a perfect system by any means, as after a certain amount of time some players will have accumulated a large enough stock of dilithium that they can alter dilithium price on the market. It also does not prevent someone charging large amounts of real cash to buy up dilithium and reset the price to a higher rate. Of course in that scenario the company are quids in as they have a larger influx of cash to play with.
As I said nothing is perfect but I don't see the need to up the refinement limit other than my OCD nature says 10000 dil is a rounder number (and aligns more to the zen model) than 8000.
i brought up the question of raising the dilithium cap from 8000 / day to 10,000 / day because the C-point --> Zen conversion factor is 1.25 (8,000 x 1.25 = 10,000)
i figured if C-store prices are going to go up 25% once the conversion is complete then upping our dilithium refining cap by a factor of 1.25 made sense, too . . . but obviously i'm missing something in all this conversion madness.
i brought up the question of raising the dilithium cap from 8000 / day to 10,000 / day because the C-point --> Zen conversion factor is 1.25 (8,000 x 1.25 = 10,000)
i figured if C-store prices are going to go up 25% once the conversion is complete then upping our dilithium refining cap by a factor of 1.25 made sense, too . . . but obviously i'm missing something in all this conversion madness.
I think they don't want to change the value of dilithium in the process, really.
The ideal would be that 340 dilithium buys one C-Point and, after a switch gets flipped, 272 dilithium buys one Zen, keeping the cash value intact.
The increase was inevitable and never in doubt. The problem is and always will be a disparity in the perceived value of these two. You have to pay real money for C-points whereas you can make an unlimited number of alts and grind out dilithium for free. The only ones this will affect are those attempting to play the market.
I for one don't care to see the limit decrease proportionately to the loss of value. Increase it so I can consider spending my C-points on it.
Kobayashi Maru
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
Comments
500 dilithium for 1 CP is 625 dilithium for 1 zen (500 x 1.25 = 625). . . not 750.
PWE has essentially raised the cap to 600 dilithium (600 x 1.25 = 750). . . most likely in anticipation for the rise in demand caused by starbase reqs.
As i understand it if you ask for more Dil per point than a seller is offering it goes onto the buy CP list. And if you ask for more CP's per dil than the buy cp's list is offering it goes onto the Sell Dil list.
Basic common sense says the CP sellers can name their price knowing that anyone that needs the cp's asap will buy it at any level of inflated price.
But the common trend these days seemed to be to tell everyone to make their own small fleet because small fleets would be so much better off with Starbases. Well I tell them that they are in a world of hurt with endless Dilithium grinding. I created a private fleet with just three of my friends too, but after seeing the numbers on Tribble I'm considering opening it up a bit after all. Even with multiple alts farming 8000 dilithium daily, the required amounts will hurt. It seems much more attractive to buy a few hundred thousand dilithium instead. I don't think I'll be the only one thinking that.
Just my 2 cents.
This will sell more Cp's/zen
it will also stop the constant market "trading" of the Maddoff of Borg types
(and yes I usually SELL cp's at 250)
Post when you do, so we can grab them and mark them back up.:P
Dec/2008
capitalists communists Scientists and Accademics the four groups who should NEVER be trusted with money
The thing is, it isn't just about selling directly or they would cut out the middle man and sell directly. It's about managing activity, keeping it up while also keeping it from rising to an unprofitable point where hardcore players dominate.
The target value of dilithium needs to fluctuate based on the number of players, number of active alts they have, amount of activity, availability of ore and refinement options, and number of C-points floating. They also need dumps that exceed the stipend points floating.
If they were only concerned with the direct aspect of monetization, they could simply mint fresh dilithium for C-Points. They sort of do at a low rate through Doff packs. The point of the added complexity is to manage activity and adapt to player population and activity level. It's business calculus, not simple arithmetic. Managing activity has design benefits but is also useful for managing socialization, which influences the effective value and sales of C-store items; the value of vanity items is contingent in socialization in part because vanity is rooted in being seen and being seen with vanity items advertises them.
A straight conversion of the Dilithium Exchange minimum and maximum prices based on the 1.25:1 price ratio of Cryptic Points to Zen would have resulted in a price range of 40 to 400. We are increasing the range a bit at both ends (25 to 500) just as a precaution since we expect some price volatility due to the increased demand for Dilithium that will result from the release of fleet starbases.
In all likelihood this change won?t really matter, since the prices in the exchange are set by players based on supply and demand of the two currencies (CPoints/Zen and Dilithium). Since the first day that the Dilithium Exchange was turned on, there have been no trades near either the high or low limit and I don?t expect that to change. The current price for 1 Cryptic Point is around 340 Dilithium. After the Zen conversion I expect that price for 1 Zen to be around 272 Dilithium, which would give players the same dollar value for their Dilithium as before the conversion. After season 6 launches, I expect that this number will go down as Dilithium is more in demand and increases in value versus Zen.
Thank you rehpic
old range with c-point
8000 dil @500 = 16 C-Points
8000 dil @50 = 160 C-Points
old new range with zen
8000 dil @750 = 10,6 Zen = 8 C-Points
8000 dil @50 = 160 Zen or 128 C-Points
Accurate Rehpic range with zen
8000 dil @500 = 20 Zen = 16 C-Points
8000 dil @25 = 320 Zen = 256 C-Points
...
but but but that means that at the top end, nothing changed and at the bottom end is worth MORE!!
That surely can't be correct! PW is SUPPOSED to be TRIBBLE over their customers!...
100% happy with that statement
imho /thread solved
thank you for responding
so . . . you're going to raise the Refine Dilithium cap from 8,000 per day to 10,000 a day, right?
right?
Um, why?
Dilithium isn't being replaced by Zenlithium or anything....
For example, theres some "daily" missions that only show up weekly. It's quite funny really...
... but yeah, this max change sucks.
Damn it! Stop giving them ideas!
If only... but that would make too much sense.
if C-store prices are going up by 25% then our daily refine limit should go up 25% also
You will buy stuff with Zen, not Dil. Zen versus C-Points will be adjusted by 25%, as stated in the FAQ you quoted.
What you suggest is to have both the Zen and Dil values modified by 25% each. Why?
because i should have gone to bed an hour ago.
"Cryptic/PWE sells cp on the exchange". Yes of course they do, don't be silly. If they didn't this "player based" economy you guys keep crying about would be alot higher than the current 350ish per cp. When players spike the prices, the company starts dragging it down a little. Why is this? Also, why have they allowed it to go from the 180ish it was when I started to the 350ish it is now?????
That's simple as well. They want a steady increase in the exchange to a point. However, making it a spike and holding it there, or forcing the prices to skyrocket is the easiest way to lose customers. A steady increase will make people more unlikely to spend money on cp/zen to do so because it's taking that much longer to grind dil for your ships. Driving off a potiental customer base by forcing a market to skyrocket is not how they make money.
By introducing their own cp/zen into the system they are able to control, to a point, the spikes and dips in the market. Please stop calling it a 'player controlled economy' it really shows a lack of intelligence. I could continue to try to explain what I'm trying to say, but the chances are if you haven't gotten it by now you won't because you know everything.
Bottom line here, PWE is not losing money, they are not working for free. In fact I have to give them credit, their economic department needs to be working for the president to fix the deficeit. they're good.
As I said nothing is perfect but I don't see the need to up the refinement limit other than my OCD nature says 10000 dil is a rounder number (and aligns more to the zen model) than 8000.
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i figured if C-store prices are going to go up 25% once the conversion is complete then upping our dilithium refining cap by a factor of 1.25 made sense, too . . . but obviously i'm missing something in all this conversion madness.
I think they don't want to change the value of dilithium in the process, really.
The ideal would be that 340 dilithium buys one C-Point and, after a switch gets flipped, 272 dilithium buys one Zen, keeping the cash value intact.
I for one don't care to see the limit decrease proportionately to the loss of value. Increase it so I can consider spending my C-points on it.
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor