I think the problem here is that the level will apparently rendered when loaded. Might be an engine limitation but it looks to me like the game cannot render objects on thy fly. This would mean that the editor would have to load every single object which would probably kill performance (and possibly some graphics cards).
I think this is also one of the reasons, why it always takes a moment for the map to load when testing even if you made no changes. But since I am no programmer this is practically just guessing about my observations.
The 2D editor works quite well in my oppinion as I'm basically not modelling but placing objects. Sure, every now and then I'm trying to place an object exactly so that I end up loading the level, exiting, moving the object and loading the level again over and over.
But most of the time you can work with X and Z values. Once you figured out how far the have to be placed apart (like with walls), it probably takes less time placing them in a 2D grid as if you would have needed trying to place them in an 3D environment.
Seriously turn on an xbox and get a copy of halo. Then look at FORGE. I hope the 2d thing is very temporary if this is a level construction program. I don't mean to be a jerk and i know it is still under construction. Please if it is possible, look into this for creative people that want to see what they are doing.
Yeah...about this...I'm sorry. I did not realize you guys at cryptic aren't a giant group of people that can finish a project within a very small amount of time. I didn't mean that anyway. I was frustrated.
Yeah...about this...I'm sorry. I did not realize you guys at cryptic aren't a giant group of people that can finish a project within a very small amount of time. I didn't mean that anyway. I was frustrated.
Nice... Lesson Forums one... Don't type under the influence of Frustration... Napoleon_Blownapart can detest to this rule... I think we all learned the hard way...
I think the problem here is that the level will apparently rendered when loaded. Might be an engine limitation but it looks to me like the game cannot render objects on thy fly. This would mean that the editor would have to load every single object which would probably kill performance (and possibly some graphics cards).
I think this is also one of the reasons, why it always takes a moment for the map to load when testing even if you made no changes. But since I am no programmer this is practically just guessing about my observations.
The 2D editor works quite well in my oppinion as I'm basically not modelling but placing objects. Sure, every now and then I'm trying to place an object exactly so that I end up loading the level, exiting, moving the object and loading the level again over and over.
But most of the time you can work with X and Z values. Once you figured out how far the have to be placed apart (like with walls), it probably takes less time placing them in a 2D grid as if you would have needed trying to place them in an 3D environment.
Indeed the 'render when loaded' means that any cut scene editor would have to start with a system that has already been loaded and rendered, which is why I think you'd have to have an initial starting place from within the testing scenario, start by freezing the game, and initiating the cut scene editor from that moment. That starts you with a specific volume and a specific number of objects to manipulate. The editor would have to allow you to work on those objects, based on their initial positions and limited to the start-volume you are in when initiated. Yo reduce memory for this editor, is that when you start it, there is no reason for objects to remain fully-rendered, you could just operate on placeholders from that point forward, at least until you are ready to run through a test scene and make a final cut.
As another poster mentioned, you dont want scenes to be too epically long, a limit to the duration would be smart.
Once you figured out how far the have to be placed apart (like with walls), it probably takes less time placing them in a 2D grid as if you would have needed trying to place them in an 3D environment.
Not in the slightest. If this is your first experience with "modding" tools your naivite can be forgiven but if you've ever used the TES or Fallout 3 Construction Sets you must have a TRIBBLE loose to think the Foundry is anywhere near an efficient way of doing things.
The beauty of 3D editing is that if you want to, say put a pencil in a pencil pot, you drag a pencil into your editing window then drag it into the pencil pot - easy as that. No trying to line it up then loading your map cos it's all done in real-time, as quick as you can do it with a real pencil (once you know how to use the software of course)
Even the old NWN editor is 3D, so it boggles my mind to think that Cryptic are plodding along with this 2D thing. I know one's got nothing to do with the other, it's just to emphasize that software and technology have moved far beyond what the Foundry is capable of. I recall using an editor much like the Foundry in the '90s on my Amiga, with some Doom clone that was moddable.
Even the old NWN editor is 3D, so it boggles my mind to think that Cryptic are plodding along with this 2D thing.
I think you are missing the point, the fact is that there is no 3D tool or engine until you submit it and the project is rendered. That is kind of a limitation to the process and I suppose the engine they use. So the 2D interface is just that, an graphical interface to some database entries, not a rendering engine. You'd have to have a whole engine running local on your machine to get a 3D interface
Nice to see this is out, but will the Foundry actually save STO? Cos after all the foundry is limited by that the devs already have in the game. Will we see a change from "killing a klingon and scan 5 objects" type of missions?
Real question is is it worth me clearing space from my hdd to reinstall this game?
I've got a week off coming up, quite keen to really dive in and see what more I can do. Can't wait for the cut-scene functionality, it's going to be great for machinima makers.
Ok it seems that in NPC contact dialogues you can set the pass/fail flag in some dialogues. I would like to see added to that drop down menu a "mission complete" option, so you have more choice of how to complete missions. I think it could also allow for a lot more freedom if the pass/fail/complete dropdown became available in popup dialogues as well as NPC contact dialogues.
If you're basing rewards on the mount of clicking and killing done in missions, this addition shouldn't be open for exploiting xp gain as the player gets a decent reward for doing the mission themselves or a lower reward for say, ferrying a group of mercenaries to a battle but not beaming down and engaging in the battle themselves.
You have to jump through so many hoops to get 10 diplomacy xp, it seems like a fair balance to give 10 skill points, or even just 5 for the player and 1 for each BO.
I'm also having difficulty in re-using maps between objectives. I can spawn at a second spawn point but I'm only being presented with the objective from the first time I visited the map in question, meaning I'd have to clone the whole map and take up twice as much space on the server to achieve the desired result, and I'd have to add a "b" or something to the end of the cloned map name (which will show above the player's map) so the engine can tell them apart.
I'm finding some pretty cool (I think) uses for the functions which have been added since beta. Keep them coming
I really think that if the 2D map editing is difficult, any 3D element would be even more complicated.
It's not that it's difficult, it's just a really big waste of time, making adjustments, waiting for the level to load, making adjustments, waiting for it to load again. In a 3D editor you see the results of your editing in realtime.
3D software is as easy to use as 2D software. There's only one extra axis, hence only one extra button to press (or hold down as the case may be). After a brief teething period you'll wonder how you ever modded without it.
Don't get me wrong though. Of all the things the foundry needs at the minute, I'd put a 3D interface pretty low on the list of priorities. It needs more of the items tagged as interactive and interior objects, imo. It might seem cooky but there are some really great "Building" props that would look great inside some of the overly large interiors. A tent inside to cover some forensic lab or other alien-autopsy kinda deal?
That huge radio mast would look awesome inside as a centrepiece, oh and windows to let some light into the interiors. Doors too. We need doors of various sizes and materials. Wait.. wrong thread..
Real question is is it worth me clearing space from my hdd to reinstall this game?
I would say yes, but then I'm still hanging around in the tutorial bit working on Borg kill accolades. Come join me if you can stand to listen to Zachary Quinto repeatedly telling you about power allocations while you get those kills haha
There's also a lot more building blocks in the Foundry now than there was during beta, and the mechanics of it have definitely improved, though it still needs a few obvious oversights looking into (see my other posts from today in this thread and from the last few days in the art asset request thread).
I just wanted to throw 1 idea (of many) out there..
I was asking if libraries would be allowed in the Foundry. A library would be similar to how we can important a current project now, but would differ in the sense that if you added to the ("imported") project, the updates would be seen inside the -new- project.
To me, this would seem desirable, in that part of good stories (especially by a single author or a group of authors) would be the re-use of characters, places, etc..
ZeroniusRex told me that there is a "character import" on the roadmap, though I could not see it. That would cover 1 part of this idea.. Anyways.. Just thought I'd write it down.
I'm sure it's passed through the mind of devs, but I was curious if anyone else found that appealing
- Making this editor 3d should be top priority. As it is now you can't place or rotate objects the way you really want it. (using a desk to barricade a door - impossible)
- Enable contacts to beam out and move.
- It would also be nice to set friendly-neutral-hostile yourself for every NPC regardless of faction.
It would be nice to be able to save the missions you have created to disk - then you can make as many as you wish without having to give us unlimited slots. More publishing slots would be nice as some of us are a little obsessed with creating missions and have hundreds of ideas - which with new additions to the foundry will only get worse.
You guys wanted more content then give us the means to do so properly.
This is an awesome thread as is the foundry - there are an unlimited number of mission possibilities just let us exploit the fact.
- Making this editor 3d should be top priority. As it is now you can't place or rotate objects the way you really want it. (using a desk to barricade a door - impossible)
- Enable contacts to beam out and move.
- It would also be nice to set friendly-neutral-hostile yourself for every NPC regardless of faction.
I agree with all three points. But, as for the first point, you mean similar to "The Sims" games? If so, then I agree 1000 percent. It's much easier for me to have a 3-dimensional map when I'm trying to place objects and stuff like that.
Because it takes so much time a way to share maps would be nice. I spent a day making a Shuttle Bay. Would have been nice to share with people. Also if a mission could be marked so other people could look at it but not edit it would be great. This way I could say WOW cool idea how they do it? All I would need to do it look at there mission ti find out.
Last KILL ACCULADES for Mission. Replace them with there own Accolade. Many people think the Kill 1000 X is just cheating. Said that so many of them are getting good reviews. Do not even get me started on the farming.
Being able to share maps and other assets with each other is a very important feature. That right there would allow collaboration. A lot of people are doing awesome things, like making cities. Others like to focus more on writing dialogs and making stories, others like scripting events, making puzzles and creating combat encounters. If we could collaborate to make missions in a way that would allow a group of people to specialize on certain tasks, truly epic missions could be created!
- It would also be nice to set friendly-neutral-hostile yourself for every NPC regardless of faction.
Great idea, I wanted to create some "friendly" Romulan NPC's to work with the player in a Federation Mission. I was left trying to use the alien generator to give it my best shot. Then I couldn't dress them like Romulans!
It was my rookie attempt, and I'm sure there's some way around it, but it hasn't been made clear.
Being able to share maps and other assets with each other is a very important feature. That right there would allow collaboration. A lot of people are doing awesome things, like making cities. Others like to focus more on writing dialogs and making stories, others like scripting events, making puzzles and creating combat encounters. If we could collaborate to make missions in a way that would allow a group of people to specialize on certain tasks, truly epic missions could be created!
After all . . . that's how Cryptic and every other successful video game development company makes such great content ;-)
Great idea, I wanted to create some "friendly" Romulan NPC's to work with the player in a Federation Mission. I was left trying to use the alien generator to give it my best shot. Then I couldn't dress them like Romulans!
It was my rookie attempt, and I'm sure there's some way around it, but it hasn't been made clear.
You can just use someone in the same faction as you, but put them in a Romulan "Costume", as The Foundry calls it.
You do so (if it's still the same as 3 months ago) by going to the map where the contact is, highlighting them by left-clicking on them, and then choosing the "Contact Costume" setting (or something to that effect) in the mini-window at the bottom of that screen.
Don't forget to SAVE!
You're welcome.
I hope to see your missions someday.
L8R
What I'd like to see is that the Foundry works again. No one is able to publish a working mission since yesterday's patch.
Don't get me wrong. I'm only posting this here, because there is a chance that DStahl reads this and I want the publishing function to be fixed asap. I've got a mission here which no one can play because the Foundry is hopelessly broken. Related Thread
In the Foundry, can we please have access to the rest of the generic ship interiors that we see when we choose "visit the bridge" in game?
By this I mean, the crew quarters, engineering, sickbay and transporter pads. Just like you have for Space Dock and other established maps. Having the established ship interiors would exponentially speed up the design of missions that take place on starships making for a much friendlier experience for those who just want to concentrate on story.
(Oh by the way be sure to include the TOS constituion interiors too, they're fantastic!)
This seems like it would be an easy request to fulfill since the interiors already exist and would be great for all those folks who love to do role playing but would like to use the foundry to have a little more control.
As a bonus:
It would spice things up a little if a couple of extra "modules" were created based on those interiors that could be linked or attached to the existing ones. (Possibly linked via map transitions to avoid complications.) Things like labs, the briefing room (where the "First Contact" missions take place) that already exist, or extra corridors with crew quarters, the shuttle bay, 10-Forward and other neat touches would be great too.
I like the idea of being able to create my own missions I've tried to mess around with the foundry a little, my trouble is I can't seem to get the hang of the mechanics of it. Any ideas on how to create quality missions? maybe I'm making harder than it really is?
I like the idea of being able to create my own missions I've tried to mess around with the foundry a little, my trouble is I can't seem to get the hang of the mechanics of it. Any ideas on how to create quality missions? maybe I'm making harder than it really is?
While I dont imagine simultaneous collaboration would be doable
a shared project seems like it should be something they could accomplish in relatively short order.
Some basic locking mechanic, and a quick method to Share and Acquire a specific project.
I can see a Share button sending you a message to a captain's ingame email with a mission number and passcode that would in essence allow that person to access the foundry project via an 'acquire project' button.
I guess you would have to include a way to release a mission you have acquired and potentially 'unshare' if you are the owner.
I do think that would be a big help in getting missions to market so to speak.
I'd love to see a Cryptic poll or even a specific call-to-post about what features the authors really want/need in what priority.
This is already one of the best authoring tools that have ever been provided for the fans. There are a few ways to make it better and it actually looks like you have identified them already.
Custom interior maps
better options for placing items, i.e. 3d placement or 2d with item outlines
item collisions when placing, i.e. to prevent placing a beacon inside a planet
customizable alien character
customizable uniforms
lighting controls other than sky, there are workarounds now to make a mission very dark, but it is a pain in the butt.
more ship options, i.e. the ability to customize ship exteriors and a greater number of ships available
fix ship labels, i.e. Call the Romulan Warbird a Warbird instead of Dreadnaught
ability to chat in the editor
Instead of just squads of enemies it would be good to have individual enemies we can use as combat characters.
get rid of the Deep Space Encounters in the test maps. Makes it a pain if you are testing a map in a high danger sector while flying with your foundry character which is in a scout ship and a lvl1 character with no bo's.
Since this is a way to get free content for the customers to play taking some of the load off of the developers I think that the higher rated the UGC missions are they should get prizes such as c-store credits, special ships, uniforms and etc.
I have also had issues where characters on the federation bridge are unable to move from the bridge to the ready room or the turbolift. Because of this I altered my mission so that the action does not move to the ready room and dropped a wall door in front of the turbolift door but it would be better if those worked.
Comments
I think this is also one of the reasons, why it always takes a moment for the map to load when testing even if you made no changes. But since I am no programmer this is practically just guessing about my observations.
The 2D editor works quite well in my oppinion as I'm basically not modelling but placing objects. Sure, every now and then I'm trying to place an object exactly so that I end up loading the level, exiting, moving the object and loading the level again over and over.
But most of the time you can work with X and Z values. Once you figured out how far the have to be placed apart (like with walls), it probably takes less time placing them in a 2D grid as if you would have needed trying to place them in an 3D environment.
Yeah...about this...I'm sorry. I did not realize you guys at cryptic aren't a giant group of people that can finish a project within a very small amount of time. I didn't mean that anyway. I was frustrated.
Nice... Lesson Forums one... Don't type under the influence of Frustration... Napoleon_Blownapart can detest to this rule... I think we all learned the hard way...
Indeed the 'render when loaded' means that any cut scene editor would have to start with a system that has already been loaded and rendered, which is why I think you'd have to have an initial starting place from within the testing scenario, start by freezing the game, and initiating the cut scene editor from that moment. That starts you with a specific volume and a specific number of objects to manipulate. The editor would have to allow you to work on those objects, based on their initial positions and limited to the start-volume you are in when initiated. Yo reduce memory for this editor, is that when you start it, there is no reason for objects to remain fully-rendered, you could just operate on placeholders from that point forward, at least until you are ready to run through a test scene and make a final cut.
As another poster mentioned, you dont want scenes to be too epically long, a limit to the duration would be smart.
Not in the slightest. If this is your first experience with "modding" tools your naivite can be forgiven but if you've ever used the TES or Fallout 3 Construction Sets you must have a TRIBBLE loose to think the Foundry is anywhere near an efficient way of doing things.
The beauty of 3D editing is that if you want to, say put a pencil in a pencil pot, you drag a pencil into your editing window then drag it into the pencil pot - easy as that. No trying to line it up then loading your map cos it's all done in real-time, as quick as you can do it with a real pencil (once you know how to use the software of course)
Even the old NWN editor is 3D, so it boggles my mind to think that Cryptic are plodding along with this 2D thing. I know one's got nothing to do with the other, it's just to emphasize that software and technology have moved far beyond what the Foundry is capable of. I recall using an editor much like the Foundry in the '90s on my Amiga, with some Doom clone that was moddable.
Real question is is it worth me clearing space from my hdd to reinstall this game?
Whoa, great work on that bay! Looks wonderful.
I've got a week off coming up, quite keen to really dive in and see what more I can do. Can't wait for the cut-scene functionality, it's going to be great for machinima makers.
If you're basing rewards on the mount of clicking and killing done in missions, this addition shouldn't be open for exploiting xp gain as the player gets a decent reward for doing the mission themselves or a lower reward for say, ferrying a group of mercenaries to a battle but not beaming down and engaging in the battle themselves.
You have to jump through so many hoops to get 10 diplomacy xp, it seems like a fair balance to give 10 skill points, or even just 5 for the player and 1 for each BO.
I'm also having difficulty in re-using maps between objectives. I can spawn at a second spawn point but I'm only being presented with the objective from the first time I visited the map in question, meaning I'd have to clone the whole map and take up twice as much space on the server to achieve the desired result, and I'd have to add a "b" or something to the end of the cloned map name (which will show above the player's map) so the engine can tell them apart.
I'm finding some pretty cool (I think) uses for the functions which have been added since beta. Keep them coming
It's not that it's difficult, it's just a really big waste of time, making adjustments, waiting for the level to load, making adjustments, waiting for it to load again. In a 3D editor you see the results of your editing in realtime.
3D software is as easy to use as 2D software. There's only one extra axis, hence only one extra button to press (or hold down as the case may be). After a brief teething period you'll wonder how you ever modded without it.
Don't get me wrong though. Of all the things the foundry needs at the minute, I'd put a 3D interface pretty low on the list of priorities. It needs more of the items tagged as interactive and interior objects, imo. It might seem cooky but there are some really great "Building" props that would look great inside some of the overly large interiors. A tent inside to cover some forensic lab or other alien-autopsy kinda deal?
That huge radio mast would look awesome inside as a centrepiece, oh and windows to let some light into the interiors. Doors too. We need doors of various sizes and materials. Wait.. wrong thread..
I would say yes, but then I'm still hanging around in the tutorial bit working on Borg kill accolades. Come join me if you can stand to listen to Zachary Quinto repeatedly telling you about power allocations while you get those kills haha
There's also a lot more building blocks in the Foundry now than there was during beta, and the mechanics of it have definitely improved, though it still needs a few obvious oversights looking into (see my other posts from today in this thread and from the last few days in the art asset request thread).
I was asking if libraries would be allowed in the Foundry. A library would be similar to how we can important a current project now, but would differ in the sense that if you added to the ("imported") project, the updates would be seen inside the -new- project.
To me, this would seem desirable, in that part of good stories (especially by a single author or a group of authors) would be the re-use of characters, places, etc..
ZeroniusRex told me that there is a "character import" on the roadmap, though I could not see it. That would cover 1 part of this idea.. Anyways.. Just thought I'd write it down.
I'm sure it's passed through the mind of devs, but I was curious if anyone else found that appealing
Regards
I was thinking the same thing.
- Enable contacts to beam out and move.
- It would also be nice to set friendly-neutral-hostile yourself for every NPC regardless of faction.
You guys wanted more content then give us the means to do so properly.
This is an awesome thread as is the foundry - there are an unlimited number of mission possibilities just let us exploit the fact.
Keep up the good work
I agree with all three points.
Last KILL ACCULADES for Mission. Replace them with there own Accolade. Many people think the Kill 1000 X is just cheating. Said that so many of them are getting good reviews. Do not even get me started on the farming.
Great idea, I wanted to create some "friendly" Romulan NPC's to work with the player in a Federation Mission. I was left trying to use the alien generator to give it my best shot. Then I couldn't dress them like Romulans!
It was my rookie attempt, and I'm sure there's some way around it, but it hasn't been made clear.
After all . . . that's how Cryptic and every other successful video game development company makes such great content ;-)
You can just use someone in the same faction as you, but put them in a Romulan "Costume", as The Foundry calls it.
You do so (if it's still the same as 3 months ago) by going to the map where the contact is, highlighting them by left-clicking on them, and then choosing the "Contact Costume" setting (or something to that effect) in the mini-window at the bottom of that screen.
Don't forget to SAVE!
You're welcome.
I hope to see your missions someday.
L8R
Don't get me wrong. I'm only posting this here, because there is a chance that DStahl reads this and I want the publishing function to be fixed asap. I've got a mission here which no one can play because the Foundry is hopelessly broken. Related Thread
By this I mean, the crew quarters, engineering, sickbay and transporter pads. Just like you have for Space Dock and other established maps. Having the established ship interiors would exponentially speed up the design of missions that take place on starships making for a much friendlier experience for those who just want to concentrate on story.
(Oh by the way be sure to include the TOS constituion interiors too, they're fantastic!)
This seems like it would be an easy request to fulfill since the interiors already exist and would be great for all those folks who love to do role playing but would like to use the foundry to have a little more control.
As a bonus:
It would spice things up a little if a couple of extra "modules" were created based on those interiors that could be linked or attached to the existing ones. (Possibly linked via map transitions to avoid complications.) Things like labs, the briefing room (where the "First Contact" missions take place) that already exist, or extra corridors with crew quarters, the shuttle bay, 10-Forward and other neat touches would be great too.
Thanks!
Here's a comprehensive guide to tutorials:
http://starbaseugc.com/wiki/index.php/Tutorials
Some are text, many are video walkthroughs. New ones are being added all the time; in fact I think Kirkfat is working on his next one as we speak.
And indeed he was:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuSDIDLndhw
a shared project seems like it should be something they could accomplish in relatively short order.
Some basic locking mechanic, and a quick method to Share and Acquire a specific project.
I can see a Share button sending you a message to a captain's ingame email with a mission number and passcode that would in essence allow that person to access the foundry project via an 'acquire project' button.
I guess you would have to include a way to release a mission you have acquired and potentially 'unshare' if you are the owner.
I do think that would be a big help in getting missions to market so to speak.
I'd love to see a Cryptic poll or even a specific call-to-post about what features the authors really want/need in what priority.
Custom interior maps
better options for placing items, i.e. 3d placement or 2d with item outlines
item collisions when placing, i.e. to prevent placing a beacon inside a planet
customizable alien character
customizable uniforms
lighting controls other than sky, there are workarounds now to make a mission very dark, but it is a pain in the butt.
more ship options, i.e. the ability to customize ship exteriors and a greater number of ships available
fix ship labels, i.e. Call the Romulan Warbird a Warbird instead of Dreadnaught
ability to chat in the editor
Instead of just squads of enemies it would be good to have individual enemies we can use as combat characters.
get rid of the Deep Space Encounters in the test maps. Makes it a pain if you are testing a map in a high danger sector while flying with your foundry character which is in a scout ship and a lvl1 character with no bo's.
Since this is a way to get free content for the customers to play taking some of the load off of the developers I think that the higher rated the UGC missions are they should get prizes such as c-store credits, special ships, uniforms and etc.
I have also had issues where characters on the federation bridge are unable to move from the bridge to the ready room or the turbolift. Because of this I altered my mission so that the action does not move to the ready room and dropped a wall door in front of the turbolift door but it would be better if those worked.