The Refit Connie which is standard at Lt. Cmdr is older than the Excelsior, as is our Miranda... the Nebula is newer than the Galaxy or at best the same age...
The canon ships should have been in the game from the start and the non-canon should have been purchasable skins...
A lot of things should be in the game but they launched when they said they would launch ... and if they had waited .. the screams would have caused the Earth to stop moving.
They are only humans and so doing what they can.
Point is this ... the ships are finding their way into the game.
Point is this ... the ships are finding their way into the game.
But at what cost? 500CP? 1000? 2000?
The problem is is that crytpic did a poll. Excelsior and Nebula came out on top. Crytpic stated over and over that these 2 ships would be ingame. When everyone finally got their hopes up after months of waiting...Crpytic wonderfully annouces that boths ships will be in game...for a price.
The problem is is that crytpic did a poll. Excelsior and Nebula came out on top. Crytpic stated over and over that these 2 ships would be ingame. When everyone finally got their hopes up after months of waiting...Crpytic wonderfully annouces that boths ships will be in game...for a price.
They purposely deceived the players yet again.
That is the issue.
i can't recall them saying they would NOT charge you fot those ships....
I just want to point out that this is very much untrue. The Excelsior has been shown by far more than the Nebula with 17 appearances in TNG (compared to 4), 31 appearances in DS9 (compared to 14), and even in Voyager, the Excelsior has appeared 6 times (compared to 4).
The Excelsior has also been featured in every one of the (classic) Trek films except for The Motion Picture, and Wrath of Khan, compared to just 2 of the Trek films for the Nebula (Generations, First Contact)
That's a total of 59 Excelsior appearances by comparison to just 24 Nebula appearances!
Don't get me wrong though, I do like the Nebula design as much, but I won't lie - I've got a soft spot for the unusually long Excelsior - so sleek, so majestic!
You are right, no where ddes it say that these ship sould be ingame for "free." Hoever, it also failed to state that they were to be sold in the C-Store item.
SO, in all, The poll was conducted to see what ships people want to own they now had a price guess that marketing would work onm from the numbers by hte poll, firus threads, and other input. No where in all of this , ws "for a price" listed or stated anywhere.
The intentsions of Cryptic are pretty clear, it is sad soo many plyares just didnt read between the lines.
It's always fascinating to watch people whinge, Whine, Moan and complain when they think they're being cheated or deceived or ripped-off in some way.
You all seem to be forgetting one very important fact:
Money makes the world turn. Now, Unless you can organise it so that EVERY SINGLE player in the game, Cancels their subscription and leaves the game, Simultaneously, You have absolutely zip control over the situation - Nadda, Nix, Nay, Nein, Niet, Zilcho...A big donut.
Cryptic are going to do what Cryptic want to do/Are told to do. If an announcement is made that something new is going to be added to the C-Store, You can bet your preferred hand that it's going to cost. If you thought otherwise, Or are claiming, Rather foolishly, That "they" never said it would cost anything, Then you deserve to be ripped-off. IT'S A STORE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.
As for the issue of entitlement and exclusivity: Like I said above, Cryptic are going to do whatever it takes to make more money, For two reasons: 1) To keep the company from "going under" and 2) To continue, Further and improve game development.
If you don't want to pay for something on the C-Store, That's your perogative, But don't whine when something you want, Is put on the C-Store with a price tag.
I originally bought the Digital Deluxe Edition of the game, Which came with the Joined Trill as a playable species, The Chromodynamic Armor and the Automated Defense Turret tactical console. These were marked as "Exclusives" - One of these three items has already been put onto the C-Store.
After a couple of months of playing the game, I decided I liked it and went and bought the lifetime subscription, Which allowed for extra character slots and the playable Liberated Borg species. Again, The Liberated Borg species has been marked as an "Exclusive" - I fully expect that, At some point within the next 6-12 months, Cryptic will put the playable Liberated Borg species onto the C-Store, Presumably at a price that is roughly double the most expensive playable species on the store at the moment, Which, Correct me If I'm wrong, Is the Federation Klingons, At 240 C-Points.
The Galaxy-X was originally an "exclusive" for people who either referred five people to the game and those five people went and subscribed, Or for people who went out and bought five copies of the game and subscribed five times. It was also, Eventually, Added to the C-Store...At a fairly hefty price, Of course.
My point is, No "exclusive" is really "exclusive" - There will ALWAYS be a time limit on its exclusivity. Perhaps when Cryptic finally decide that the lifetime subscription is no longer a profitable venture, They'll can it and put the Liberated Borg onto the C-Store.
The moral of the story is: Whining changes nothing. There will ALWAYS be people who are unhappy with a BUSINESS DECISION. When it comes to the C-Store, If you don't like or are unhappy that something you want, Has been added to the C-Store with a price tag and you are upset because you either can't buy it because you don't have a credit/debit card, Or your parents won't buy you the points for it, You simply have to accept that for the time being, This something is unavailable to you. Whining and coming onto the forum and ranting about your situation and twisting it to look like a general consensus that its a bad move on Cryptic's part is JUST PLAIN WRONG.
Not everyone is upset about things being added to the C-Store. Not everyone whines and rants about things being added to the C-Store. Like I said: Money makes the world go round. We do not live in a "Next Generation" era of humanity - We have not absolved currency or personal wealth and gain. If you can afford something and want to buy it, You buy it. If you can't, You don't.
USD 27.6 million (i.e. approx. EUR 21.7 million) upfront cash payment at closing;
A potential earn-out mechanism for a maximum amount estimated as of today at USD 27.5 million (i.e. approx. EUR 21.6 million):
USD 17.8 million to be paid in cash, USD 6.7 million estimated as of today to be paid in Infogrames shares (i.e. up to 889,242 shares) and USD 3.0 million estimated as of today to be paid to holders of Cryptic stock options either in Infogrames shares (i.e. up to 407,603 shares, subject to Infogrames shareholders approval) or in cash.
Earn-out is based on the completion of 2010/2011 revenues targets of Champions Online and Star Trek Online, half of the earn-out in relation to Champions Online online revenues being paid on June 30, 2010, the other half on March 1st, 2011;
a bonus for a maximum amount of USD 20 million (i.e. approx. EUR 15.7 million) is to be paid in cash or Infogrames stock (at the option of Infogrames, subject to the shareholders approval), if Champions Online and Star Trek Onlines 2010/2011 online revenues over perform revenues targets. This bonus is to be paid on August 2010 and on May 2011.
this is why cryptic is pressing the cstore.. yes its based on money and yes the game will prolly be better if they reach the set marks , yes they could have been more honest about it im sure more ppl would not have freaked out so much is they actually understood why .
Put ur self in cryptics shoes for a sec and you will understand why they are doing the cstore so much ,right or wrong its something we have to live with no matter what ,just i dident like the way they went about dooing this .
I have no qualms with them doing what has to be done. If all those bonus pennies are going to get more stuff in the game, so be it. It takes a certain quality of guts to brave the wrath of forumites anyway.
Bahaha. See? Another individual who does not feel the same way as the OP and several other posters in this thread. The only reason that you don't see people like us, Who have no quarrel with Cryptic's decisions, On the forums, Is because, 99% of the time, We don't have a problem with any aspect of the game and are too busy playing said game, To be on these forums.
There's a large difference between saying, "Look at all the new, additional content we've added for free" and "Look at how we're finishing the game and making it like we promised it."
90% of those additions should have been in the game and were necessary to make the game playable and even semi-solid. So, indeed they were done and I'm glad they were; but I have problem praising a company for doing what it should have earlier.
While I think someone who finishes what they started is worthy of praise, hiding failure(to complete a game behind launch and playing catch-up) behind the guise of generosity is foul play of the worst kind.
In addition, the few new things that I'd consider as truly new was mainly fluff like off-duty uniforms and while free aren't major game additions.
Also, bug fixes? Free? Oh snap. I'm glad we don't have to pay the technical support team to do their job. Bug fixes have never, EVER been charged by any decent MMO company and to portray Crypic as being special for giving us bug fixes implies that one is grasping for straws.
I don't say this to simply flame and troll/whine, but when a cryptic employee makes a post of this nature, I think it's incredibly irresponsible on our parts to simply take it at face value. As customers of Cryptic and players of STO, the responsible thing for us to do to critically examine the post and see it for what it is, poorly constructed propaganda.
Im quite happy to buy both these ships. We cant have everything for free and id rather make an investment in the game if its going to keep it alive that lil bit longer or is going to get us that extra bit of content that we want
People seem to promptly forget they both bought the game and are paying for a subscription (or forked out A LOT for a lifetime). MMOs have gone on a while adding content without micro-transactions. Why does everything need to be added to the c-store on top of the sub?
USD 27.6 million (i.e. approx. EUR 21.7 million) upfront cash payment at closing;
A potential earn-out mechanism for a maximum amount estimated as of today at USD 27.5 million (i.e. approx. EUR 21.6 million):
USD 17.8 million to be paid in cash, USD 6.7 million estimated as of today to be paid in Infogrames shares (i.e. up to 889,242 shares) and USD 3.0 million estimated as of today to be paid to holders of Cryptic stock options either in Infogrames shares (i.e. up to 407,603 shares, subject to Infogrames shareholders approval) or in cash.
Earn-out is based on the completion of 2010/2011 revenues targets of Champions Online and Star Trek Online, half of the earn-out in relation to Champions Online online revenues being paid on June 30, 2010, the other half on March 1st, 2011;
a bonus for a maximum amount of USD 20 million (i.e. approx. EUR 15.7 million) is to be paid in cash or Infogrames stock (at the option of Infogrames, subject to the shareholders approval), if Champions Online and Star Trek Onlines 2010/2011 online revenues over perform revenues targets. This bonus is to be paid on August 2010 and on May 2011.
this is why cryptic is pressing the cstore.. yes its based on money and yes the game will prolly be better if they reach the set marks , yes they could have been more honest about it im sure more ppl would not have freaked out so much is they actually understood why .
Put ur self in cryptics shoes for a sec and you will understand why they are doing the cstore so much ,right or wrong its something we have to live with no matter what ,just i dident like the way they went about dooing this .
Information very few people in this community are aware of to be sure. There were several threads with this info in them before but they all vanished somehow over about the past year.
If there is lots of money from atari coming to cryptic in august based on whether they hit revenue targets by then I could understand the seemingly desperate actions to get money from the c-store right away. If dstahl came on here and said "if we hit such and such a target by next month we get over 20million dollars for development of STO, I'll bet lots of people would support the game by spending their money. Maybe they could even offer some in-game bonus to all players who spend on the c-store between now and then if they hit their target. Maybe give the Tribble of Borg to those who spend $10 between now and the middle of august or something.
If I knew this was the rationale behind what looked like a giant increase in prices I'd be less argumentative over it. We want to support the game, but we also want to be treated fairly. Knowing that this was a desperate attempt to meet immediate targets to get a bonus would allay some fears and add in some people determined to support the game's future improvement.
So dstahl, if this is indeed what's going on, say so! You might get a lot more money spent in the c-store right away if you do that.
If there is lots of money from atari coming to cryptic in august based on whether they hit revenue targets by then I could understand the seemingly desperate actions to get money from the c-store right away. If dstahl came on here and said "if we hit such and such a target by next month we get over 20million dollars for development of STO, I'll bet lots of people would support the game by spending their money. Maybe they could even offer some in-game bonus to all players who spend on the c-store between now and then if they hit their target. Maybe give the Tribble of Borg to those who spend $10 between now and the middle of august or something.
If I knew this was the rationale behind what looked like a giant increase in prices I'd be less argumentative over it. We want to support the game, but we also want to be treated fairly. Knowing that this was a desperate attempt to meet immediate targets to get a bonus would allay some fears and add in some people determined to support the game's future improvement.
So dstahl, if this is indeed what's going on, say so! You might get a lot more money spent in the c-store right away if you do that.
There is the rub... No one is doing that for whatever reason. One could easily think the community is being look at as if it was composed of kids and not primarily men - older ones at that from what I can tell. Consequently we are being treated accordingly. More than a few companies tend to have this thinking towards their customers. It is sad - really... I think the last study showed the average gamer to be in the late 30s. Granted when one reads a lot of posts they could easily conclude the opposite but like the devs like to point out, the active posters on forums make up a very small percentage of the users.
Anyway, maybe with dstahl in command now and with his seemingly candid dare I say no spin approach to communicating with the community maybe he will decide to address the business side of the situation with us. Shoot I bet a lot of the currently active people dont know Cryptic saved STO from the dustbin of dreams. It is stuff like this that which should be addressed to be sure. I think if everyone has the same perspective of the situation and history that a lot of the bitc'hin' going on would go away.
STO is currently a P2P game, unless you bought a Lifetime subscription.
The ONLY items that belong in the C-Store at this point are character services. Character services such as: renames, recustomize, race change etc.
Having ships in the C-Store is like saying you can buy certain weapons in World of Warcraft for your character with real money. Are these weapons necessary for gameplay? No. Can I live without them? Yes. But they ARE content made for this game and players should be able to experience ALL of the content this game has to offer if you pay a monthly subscription or a lifer.
I do not have a lifetime subscription. Have I received new content from paying my monthly subscription? Yes, the STFs were content (but do really not count for me, as they take FAR to long to do, but great for the hardcore fleets I guess.) That means the only real new content for me thus far is Season 2, and that is fine.
Earlier in this thread, Stormshade commented on all the free content that has been patched in since release. Many of these items are not content, but bug fixes / features that should have been place in launch but were not because this game was shoved out the door prematurely. A difficulty slider is not content, it is an interface option.
Of course, no matter what I or anyone else says, its quite clear at this point that Cryptic is going to continue to throw new ships / bridges / races into the C-Store. Fine. Make STO a F2P game then. There are enough items and the C-Store is popular enough at this point to fund game development on its own, considering how many Galaxy-X's are flying around (and how many Nebulas and Excelsiors will be flying around)
STO is currently a P2P game, unless you bought a Lifetime subscription.
The ONLY items that belong in the C-Store at this point are character services. Character services such as: renames, recustomize, race change etc.
Having ships in the C-Store is like saying you can buy certain weapons in World of Warcraft for your character with real money. Are these weapons necessary for gameplay? No. Can I live without them? Yes. But they ARE content made for this game and players should be able to experience ALL of the content this game has to offer if you pay a monthly subscription or a lifer.
I do not have a lifetime subscription. Have I received new content from paying my monthly subscription? Yes, the STFs were content (but do really not count for me, as they take FAR to long to do, but great for the hardcore fleets I guess.) That means the only real new content for me thus far is Season 2, and that is fine.
Earlier in this thread, Stormshade commented on all the free content that has been patched in since release. Many of these items are not content, but bug fixes / features that should have been place in launch but were not because this game was shoved out the door prematurely. A difficulty slider is not content, it is an interface option.
Of course, no matter what I or anyone else says, its quite clear at this point that Cryptic is going to continue to throw new ships / bridges / races into the C-Store. Fine. Make STO a F2P game then. There are enough items and the C-Store is popular enough at this point to fund game development on its own, considering how many Galaxy-X's are flying around (and how many Nebulas and Excelsiors will be flying around)
i really liked what i read... i concur with you... have a look in the last link in my signature... this guy gave a good rational about the C store
here s my bottom line... there s no C store team as stated several time by Mr Stahl and other dev...i realized there s one and only one team building both C store and core game items...so making a C store item takes away something from the core game. So technically we pay for C store items to be made by our subscription fees...
The issue is the average STO players is just a middle age Star trek fan who has the mean to spend more money to get a better star trek experience from this game...why would he be complaining about the C store...Don t get me wrong... it s me in a nutshell.. if it was not a game based on star trek i would not be here today...however i try to keep an open and critical eye to avoid being a foul...
USD 27.6 million (i.e. approx. EUR 21.7 million) upfront cash payment at closing;
A potential earn-out mechanism for a maximum amount estimated as of today at USD 27.5 million (i.e. approx. EUR 21.6 million):
USD 17.8 million to be paid in cash, USD 6.7 million estimated as of today to be paid in Infogrames shares (i.e. up to 889,242 shares) and USD 3.0 million estimated as of today to be paid to holders of Cryptic stock options either in Infogrames shares (i.e. up to 407,603 shares, subject to Infogrames shareholders approval) or in cash.
Earn-out is based on the completion of 2010/2011 revenues targets of Champions Online and Star Trek Online, half of the earn-out in relation to Champions Online online revenues being paid on June 30, 2010, the other half on March 1st, 2011;
a bonus for a maximum amount of USD 20 million (i.e. approx. EUR 15.7 million) is to be paid in cash or Infogrames stock (at the option of Infogrames, subject to the shareholders approval), if Champions Online and Star Trek Onlines 2010/2011 online revenues over perform revenues targets. This bonus is to be paid on August 2010 and on May 2011.
this is why cryptic is pressing the cstore.. yes its based on money and yes the game will prolly be better if they reach the set marks , yes they could have been more honest about it im sure more ppl would not have freaked out so much is they actually understood why .
Put ur self in cryptics shoes for a sec and you will understand why they are doing the cstore so much ,right or wrong its something we have to live with no matter what ,just i dident like the way they went about dooing this .
I have read this entire thread. The entire thing.
Every. Single. Post I've read from you has been whining. I will come through here and categorize every Goddamn last post if I have to. You have contributed NOTHING to this thread whatsoever, and your continued malfeasance is an eyesore to every person on this forum.
I have also seen many sage replies on both sides of this aisle but this one takes the cake. This is exactly what is going down, and I hate having wool pulled over my eyes.
This doesn't even concern my hobby as a Trekkie; this is the pure logistics of it all.
As a gamer, if you're going to dollar-and-de-cents-itize us to microtransation robbery, you deserve all the backlash you guys get, Cryptic.
If I wanted pirates for admins, I'd join PotCO. Yarr.
It's always fascinating to watch people whinge, Whine, Moan and complain when they think they're being cheated or deceived or ripped-off in some way.
You all seem to be forgetting one very important fact:
Money makes the world turn. Now, Unless you can organise it so that EVERY SINGLE player in the game, Cancels their subscription and leaves the game, Simultaneously, You have absolutely zip control over the situation - Nadda, Nix, Nay, Nein, Niet, Zilcho...A big donut.
Cryptic are going to do what Cryptic want to do/Are told to do. If an announcement is made that something new is going to be added to the C-Store, You can bet your preferred hand that it's going to cost. If you thought otherwise, Or are claiming, Rather foolishly, That "they" never said it would cost anything, Then you deserve to be ripped-off. IT'S A STORE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.
As for the issue of entitlement and exclusivity: Like I said above, Cryptic are going to do whatever it takes to make more money, For two reasons: 1) To keep the company from "going under" and 2) To continue, Further and improve game development.
If you don't want to pay for something on the C-Store, That's your perogative, But don't whine when something you want, Is put on the C-Store with a price tag.
I originally bought the Digital Deluxe Edition of the game, Which came with the Joined Trill as a playable species, The Chromodynamic Armor and the Automated Defense Turret tactical console. These were marked as "Exclusives" - One of these three items has already been put onto the C-Store.
After a couple of months of playing the game, I decided I liked it and went and bought the lifetime subscription, Which allowed for extra character slots and the playable Liberated Borg species. Again, The Liberated Borg species has been marked as an "Exclusive" - I fully expect that, At some point within the next 6-12 months, Cryptic will put the playable Liberated Borg species onto the C-Store, Presumably at a price that is roughly double the most expensive playable species on the store at the moment, Which, Correct me If I'm wrong, Is the Federation Klingons, At 240 C-Points.
The Galaxy-X was originally an "exclusive" for people who either referred five people to the game and those five people went and subscribed, Or for people who went out and bought five copies of the game and subscribed five times. It was also, Eventually, Added to the C-Store...At a fairly hefty price, Of course.
My point is, No "exclusive" is really "exclusive" - There will ALWAYS be a time limit on its exclusivity. Perhaps when Cryptic finally decide that the lifetime subscription is no longer a profitable venture, They'll can it and put the Liberated Borg onto the C-Store.
The moral of the story is: Whining changes nothing. There will ALWAYS be people who are unhappy with a BUSINESS DECISION. When it comes to the C-Store, If you don't like or are unhappy that something you want, Has been added to the C-Store with a price tag and you are upset because you either can't buy it because you don't have a credit/debit card, Or your parents won't buy you the points for it, You simply have to accept that for the time being, This something is unavailable to you. Whining and coming onto the forum and ranting about your situation and twisting it to look like a general consensus that its a bad move on Cryptic's part is JUST PLAIN WRONG.
Not everyone is upset about things being added to the C-Store. Not everyone whines and rants about things being added to the C-Store. Like I said: Money makes the world go round. We do not live in a "Next Generation" era of humanity - We have not absolved currency or personal wealth and gain. If you can afford something and want to buy it, You buy it. If you can't, You don't.
Reposted this "wall" just for you Cold, I read everything. I have time and I agree with Beastly.
I have no qualms with them doing what has to be done. If all those bonus pennies are going to get more stuff in the game, so be it. It takes a certain quality of guts to brave the wrath of forumites anyway.
See... there are brilliant people about. *thumbs up*
Bahaha. See? Another individual who does not feel the same way as the OP and several other posters in this thread. The only reason that you don't see people like us, Who have no quarrel with Cryptic's decisions, On the forums, Is because, 99% of the time, We don't have a problem with any aspect of the game and are too busy playing said game, To be on these forums.
we exist, and chuckle at some of the post we read, and let others know how we feel too.
and yet here you are......
posting walls of text that nobody reads....in as many threads as possible.
give you a tip: short and sweet is the key to a forum post. People may read it then.
.
you mean like the personal shots you take at folks? yeah, not a good example there neighbor. I tend to ignore those most times, every now and then i'll lower a boom on someone who gets a little to careless in what they say. Anomousity of this forum is not an excuse to be passive aggressive, smart-alec, a jackass, or just a good old fashion jerk in talking down to someone. Myself i got tired of it, so you want to be that way, not a problem, you show me how you wish to be treated in how you treat others. not a problem. Make sure your seat belt is good and snug, its a bumpy ride.
But here is the problem Those two ships are loved by a lot of people.
and there you have it.
because they ARE so popular, why not try to scam some more money out of us by putting them on the C-store?
all the not so popular stuff will be free in some patch or other but the things we REALLY want will be something we have to pay more money for.
i mean, we have been begging for the galaxy-x since closed beta, and what did they do? they yank it up on the C-store for to much money and then gimp the h*ll out of it.
The problem is is that crytpic did a poll. Excelsior and Nebula came out on top. Crytpic stated over and over that these 2 ships would be ingame. When everyone finally got their hopes up after months of waiting...Crpytic wonderfully annouces that boths ships will be in game...for a price.
They purposely deceived the players yet again.
That is the issue.
well, they didn't REALLY deceive us, we just assumed the ships would be free because we already pay a subscription that in every other subscription based game on the planet would have guaranteed that they would be free.
what ticks me off the most is that they are so obviously lying to us.
somewhere in closed beta the old producer went out and promised (yes he actually promised) that each and every item they put on the C-store could be aquired through normal gameplay.
i don't mint paying extra for aditional character slots or respecs and the likes.
but when i have to pay extra to get access to stuff i ALREADY pay a SUBSCRIPTION FEE for then i get miffed...
right now it wouldn't surprise me if the weekly episodes will end up on the c-store aswell....
the C-store isnt helping this game, quite the contrary, but somehow they are h*ellbent on trying to break even with it by throwing more and more stuff on there that we have to pay for.
and the more items they throw in there the more people gets angry and quit,. its a vicious circle they they can never ever beat.
and as someone wrote above, they don't even have a dedicated team to build all these items, so what happens is that all those that do not use the store gets to pay for it anyway via their subscriptions, and still wont get access to them until they pay even more money...
we already pay a subscription for this game, why should we have to pay many many times more just to get the "full game"?
Hello,
I mean no disrespect to any one and all have a right to there thoughts on a matter but you people complaining about them selling stuff in the c-store need to wake up this is there buissness and it pays there wages, keeps the lights on and oh yea keeps the game online, you have to realise how corporations work, They have to make at least a certian amount of profit to keep going that is just how it is, you have a job and like haveing money to pay your bills well where ever you work guess what they make a profit, see i use to work for a company and they closed all the plants down and moved them to china, and they didnt do it because they didnt make a profit but they didnt make a certian amount of profit, so please thi nk of this before you start complaining about then selling stuff in the cstore cause if you love the game like i do guess what they have to make money to keep it going and to keep makeing improvements )
Hello,
I mean no disrespect to any one and all have a right to there thoughts on a matter but you people complaining about them selling stuff in the c-store need to wake up this is there buissness and it pays there wages, keeps the lights on and oh yea keeps the game online, you have to realise how corporations work, They have to make at least a certian amount of profit to keep going that is just how it is, you have a job and like haveing money to pay your bills well where ever you work guess what they make a profit, see i use to work for a company and they closed all the plants down and moved them to china, and they didnt do it because they didnt make a profit but they didnt make a certian amount of profit, so please thi nk of this before you start complaining about then selling stuff in the cstore cause if you love the game like i do guess what they have to make money to keep it going and to keep makeing improvements )
You might have had a point with the lights and such if this game were free to play, it is not. The monthly fees are there to make them go. But they´re smart too, so they sell all the star trek stuff on the black market known as the c-store.
Hello,
I mean no disrespect to any one and all have a right to there thoughts on a matter but you people complaining about them selling stuff in the c-store need to wake up this is there buissness and it pays there wages, keeps the lights on and oh yea keeps the game online, you have to realise how corporations work, They have to make at least a certian amount of profit to keep going that is just how it is, you have a job and like haveing money to pay your bills well where ever you work guess what they make a profit, see i use to work for a company and they closed all the plants down and moved them to china, and they didnt do it because they didnt make a profit but they didnt make a certian amount of profit, so please thi nk of this before you start complaining about then selling stuff in the cstore cause if you love the game like i do guess what they have to make money to keep it going and to keep makeing improvements )
There is a not a single product I can think of that I love so much that I would support no matter the cost to me. My goal is to have a product I enjoy at a price point that I feel is worth the value. If the cost outpaces the value, the product is worthless to me, regardless of quality, and their need to sustain a profit no longer matters to me.
You see, I made it all the way through Economics, where they talked about how capitalism is NOT just about the producer trying to maximize profits while minimizing cost. It is also about the consumer trying to maximize value while minimizing costs. It is a semi-adversarial system that only works if BOTH sides work to squeeze as much as they can out of the other. Then, it meets in the middle at the optimal result for all parties. If one side doesn't push back, they get steamrolled and the whole system falls apart.
As a capitalist consumer, my part in the system is more important to me than any particular product. Star Trek or no Star Trek, I refuse to give Cryptic a free pass on trying to maximize my value. If the game fails, it is because it deserved to fail.
Hello,
I mean no disrespect to any one and all have a right to there thoughts on a matter but you people complaining about them selling stuff in the c-store need to wake up this is there buissness and it pays there wages, keeps the lights on and oh yea keeps the game online, you have to realise how corporations work, They have to make at least a certian amount of profit to keep going that is just how it is, you have a job and like haveing money to pay your bills well where ever you work guess what they make a profit, see i use to work for a company and they closed all the plants down and moved them to china, and they didnt do it because they didnt make a profit but they didnt make a certian amount of profit, so please thi nk of this before you start complaining about then selling stuff in the cstore cause if you love the game like i do guess what they have to make money to keep it going and to keep makeing improvements )
Until the asymmetrical information situation on the financial side of things is corrected with full disclosure, any arguments about the "need" of money are extremely unreasonable.
I have to agree that this is something that is beginning to rub with me that any free content is few and far between.
I like the veteran awards, it works as an incentive to keep paying subscriptions but making the cstore items like the excelsior and nebula is a bit of a pain to be honest.
Paying ten to fifteen quid in addition to the subscription is a bit much, especially as it is not a tangible object but a perk to game play.
I'd make them a free unlock at say captain level or something as an incentive to keep people playing the game and thus continuing to pay subscription fees.
Once you get past VA there is very little to do in my experience, offering extra items that are unlocked would be enough to keep me interested until proper additional content was released.
The moment cryptic start relying on cstore items for revenue then they are going to be in trouble.
My schedule shows the "Search for Spock" Excelsior going live with the launch of Weekly series 1 on August 24 (Commander level ship - avialable for Energy Credits) and then the "Generations" Excelsior going up in the C-Store on August 26 (Rear-Admiral account wide unlock).
So we get the T3 ship for in-game currency, but the T5 version is apparently going to be C-Store only. I am...not sure how I feel about this.
I suppose the fact that I am not feeling immediately quantifiable anger shows I am somewhat mollified by this half-and-half approach. The Excelsior design is old, and being giving out for "free" in a relatively appropriate block. I am...ambivalent about paying for the privilege of having it for end-game...
So we get the T3 ship for in-game currency, but the T5 version is apparently going to be C-Store only. I am...not sure how I feel about this.
I suppose the fact that I am not feeling immediately quantifiable anger shows I am somewhat mollified by this half-and-half approach. The Excelsior design is old, and being giving out for "free" in a relatively appropriate block. I am...ambivalent about paying for the privilege of having it for end-game...
I am content with having the Excelsior even if it is a lower tier ship for in game currency. At least in part this does comply with the initial plan for the game and so it would be ungrateful of us to think otherwise.
However making a paid version of it for tier 5 is still a bothersome tactic on their behalf but ultimately an extra. I wish however that all their "special" ability ships were in game and not on the C store since that upsets game balance to an extend. Perhaps special abilities should have been something you chose for your ship in game (like a retrofit choice) and not dictated by the ship itself. I prefer the store staying entirely cosmetic and not introducing new mechanics that will ultimately begin to shape gameplay.
My quick fix for all these ships (Galaxy X, Excelsior, Nebula and Connie) would be making them available with emblems since they all have attributes not found in game.
I'm happy to see the T3 Excelsior in game for energy credits. I have plenty of those. I really wish we had more lower Tier ships. I think it would be cool to be able to have a couple T1-4 ships from which to choose.
So, with the Excelsior coming out this month pegged as the 'Search for Spock' version with a rank of Commander needed, I'm guessing that the T5 version will be coming as another release sometime in September?
Comments
A lot of things should be in the game but they launched when they said they would launch ... and if they had waited .. the screams would have caused the Earth to stop moving.
They are only humans and so doing what they can.
Point is this ... the ships are finding their way into the game.
But at what cost? 500CP? 1000? 2000?
The problem is is that crytpic did a poll. Excelsior and Nebula came out on top. Crytpic stated over and over that these 2 ships would be ingame. When everyone finally got their hopes up after months of waiting...Crpytic wonderfully annouces that boths ships will be in game...for a price.
They purposely deceived the players yet again.
That is the issue.
i can't recall them saying they would NOT charge you fot those ships....
Here is the OP for the Poll Thread that was posted by Phoxe on 5/15/2010
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=157662&page=10
You are right, no where ddes it say that these ship sould be ingame for "free." Hoever, it also failed to state that they were to be sold in the C-Store item.
SO, in all, The poll was conducted to see what ships people want to own they now had a price guess that marketing would work onm from the numbers by hte poll, firus threads, and other input. No where in all of this , ws "for a price" listed or stated anywhere.
The intentsions of Cryptic are pretty clear, it is sad soo many plyares just didnt read between the lines.
You all seem to be forgetting one very important fact:
Money makes the world turn. Now, Unless you can organise it so that EVERY SINGLE player in the game, Cancels their subscription and leaves the game, Simultaneously, You have absolutely zip control over the situation - Nadda, Nix, Nay, Nein, Niet, Zilcho...A big donut.
Cryptic are going to do what Cryptic want to do/Are told to do. If an announcement is made that something new is going to be added to the C-Store, You can bet your preferred hand that it's going to cost. If you thought otherwise, Or are claiming, Rather foolishly, That "they" never said it would cost anything, Then you deserve to be ripped-off. IT'S A STORE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.
As for the issue of entitlement and exclusivity: Like I said above, Cryptic are going to do whatever it takes to make more money, For two reasons: 1) To keep the company from "going under" and 2) To continue, Further and improve game development.
If you don't want to pay for something on the C-Store, That's your perogative, But don't whine when something you want, Is put on the C-Store with a price tag.
I originally bought the Digital Deluxe Edition of the game, Which came with the Joined Trill as a playable species, The Chromodynamic Armor and the Automated Defense Turret tactical console. These were marked as "Exclusives" - One of these three items has already been put onto the C-Store.
After a couple of months of playing the game, I decided I liked it and went and bought the lifetime subscription, Which allowed for extra character slots and the playable Liberated Borg species. Again, The Liberated Borg species has been marked as an "Exclusive" - I fully expect that, At some point within the next 6-12 months, Cryptic will put the playable Liberated Borg species onto the C-Store, Presumably at a price that is roughly double the most expensive playable species on the store at the moment, Which, Correct me If I'm wrong, Is the Federation Klingons, At 240 C-Points.
The Galaxy-X was originally an "exclusive" for people who either referred five people to the game and those five people went and subscribed, Or for people who went out and bought five copies of the game and subscribed five times. It was also, Eventually, Added to the C-Store...At a fairly hefty price, Of course.
My point is, No "exclusive" is really "exclusive" - There will ALWAYS be a time limit on its exclusivity. Perhaps when Cryptic finally decide that the lifetime subscription is no longer a profitable venture, They'll can it and put the Liberated Borg onto the C-Store.
The moral of the story is: Whining changes nothing. There will ALWAYS be people who are unhappy with a BUSINESS DECISION. When it comes to the C-Store, If you don't like or are unhappy that something you want, Has been added to the C-Store with a price tag and you are upset because you either can't buy it because you don't have a credit/debit card, Or your parents won't buy you the points for it, You simply have to accept that for the time being, This something is unavailable to you. Whining and coming onto the forum and ranting about your situation and twisting it to look like a general consensus that its a bad move on Cryptic's part is JUST PLAIN WRONG.
Not everyone is upset about things being added to the C-Store. Not everyone whines and rants about things being added to the C-Store. Like I said: Money makes the world go round. We do not live in a "Next Generation" era of humanity - We have not absolved currency or personal wealth and gain. If you can afford something and want to buy it, You buy it. If you can't, You don't.
A potential earn-out mechanism for a maximum amount estimated as of today at USD 27.5 million (i.e. approx. EUR 21.6 million):
USD 17.8 million to be paid in cash, USD 6.7 million estimated as of today to be paid in Infogrames shares (i.e. up to 889,242 shares) and USD 3.0 million estimated as of today to be paid to holders of Cryptic stock options either in Infogrames shares (i.e. up to 407,603 shares, subject to Infogrames shareholders approval) or in cash.
Earn-out is based on the completion of 2010/2011 revenues targets of Champions Online and Star Trek Online, half of the earn-out in relation to Champions Online online revenues being paid on June 30, 2010, the other half on March 1st, 2011;
a bonus for a maximum amount of USD 20 million (i.e. approx. EUR 15.7 million) is to be paid in cash or Infogrames stock (at the option of Infogrames, subject to the shareholders approval), if Champions Online and Star Trek Onlines 2010/2011 online revenues over perform revenues targets. This bonus is to be paid on August 2010 and on May 2011.
this is why cryptic is pressing the cstore.. yes its based on money and yes the game will prolly be better if they reach the set marks , yes they could have been more honest about it im sure more ppl would not have freaked out so much is they actually understood why .
Put ur self in cryptics shoes for a sec and you will understand why they are doing the cstore so much ,right or wrong its something we have to live with no matter what ,just i dident like the way they went about dooing this .
full document if you wanna read http://corporate.atari.com/event/120909_Cryptic_PR_final_GB_def.pdf
posting walls of text that nobody reads....in as many threads as possible.
give you a tip: short and sweet is the key to a forum post. People may read it then.
.
If I may, a few observations.
There's a large difference between saying, "Look at all the new, additional content we've added for free" and "Look at how we're finishing the game and making it like we promised it."
90% of those additions should have been in the game and were necessary to make the game playable and even semi-solid. So, indeed they were done and I'm glad they were; but I have problem praising a company for doing what it should have earlier.
While I think someone who finishes what they started is worthy of praise, hiding failure(to complete a game behind launch and playing catch-up) behind the guise of generosity is foul play of the worst kind.
In addition, the few new things that I'd consider as truly new was mainly fluff like off-duty uniforms and while free aren't major game additions.
Also, bug fixes? Free? Oh snap. I'm glad we don't have to pay the technical support team to do their job. Bug fixes have never, EVER been charged by any decent MMO company and to portray Crypic as being special for giving us bug fixes implies that one is grasping for straws.
I don't say this to simply flame and troll/whine, but when a cryptic employee makes a post of this nature, I think it's incredibly irresponsible on our parts to simply take it at face value. As customers of Cryptic and players of STO, the responsible thing for us to do to critically examine the post and see it for what it is, poorly constructed propaganda.
People seem to promptly forget they both bought the game and are paying for a subscription (or forked out A LOT for a lifetime). MMOs have gone on a while adding content without micro-transactions. Why does everything need to be added to the c-store on top of the sub?
Information very few people in this community are aware of to be sure. There were several threads with this info in them before but they all vanished somehow over about the past year.
If I knew this was the rationale behind what looked like a giant increase in prices I'd be less argumentative over it. We want to support the game, but we also want to be treated fairly. Knowing that this was a desperate attempt to meet immediate targets to get a bonus would allay some fears and add in some people determined to support the game's future improvement.
So dstahl, if this is indeed what's going on, say so! You might get a lot more money spent in the c-store right away if you do that.
There is the rub... No one is doing that for whatever reason. One could easily think the community is being look at as if it was composed of kids and not primarily men - older ones at that from what I can tell. Consequently we are being treated accordingly. More than a few companies tend to have this thinking towards their customers. It is sad - really... I think the last study showed the average gamer to be in the late 30s. Granted when one reads a lot of posts they could easily conclude the opposite but like the devs like to point out, the active posters on forums make up a very small percentage of the users.
Anyway, maybe with dstahl in command now and with his seemingly candid dare I say no spin approach to communicating with the community maybe he will decide to address the business side of the situation with us. Shoot I bet a lot of the currently active people dont know Cryptic saved STO from the dustbin of dreams. It is stuff like this that which should be addressed to be sure. I think if everyone has the same perspective of the situation and history that a lot of the bitc'hin' going on would go away.
STO is currently a P2P game, unless you bought a Lifetime subscription.
The ONLY items that belong in the C-Store at this point are character services. Character services such as: renames, recustomize, race change etc.
Having ships in the C-Store is like saying you can buy certain weapons in World of Warcraft for your character with real money. Are these weapons necessary for gameplay? No. Can I live without them? Yes. But they ARE content made for this game and players should be able to experience ALL of the content this game has to offer if you pay a monthly subscription or a lifer.
I do not have a lifetime subscription. Have I received new content from paying my monthly subscription? Yes, the STFs were content (but do really not count for me, as they take FAR to long to do, but great for the hardcore fleets I guess.) That means the only real new content for me thus far is Season 2, and that is fine.
Earlier in this thread, Stormshade commented on all the free content that has been patched in since release. Many of these items are not content, but bug fixes / features that should have been place in launch but were not because this game was shoved out the door prematurely. A difficulty slider is not content, it is an interface option.
Of course, no matter what I or anyone else says, its quite clear at this point that Cryptic is going to continue to throw new ships / bridges / races into the C-Store. Fine. Make STO a F2P game then. There are enough items and the C-Store is popular enough at this point to fund game development on its own, considering how many Galaxy-X's are flying around (and how many Nebulas and Excelsiors will be flying around)
i really liked what i read... i concur with you... have a look in the last link in my signature... this guy gave a good rational about the C store
here s my bottom line... there s no C store team as stated several time by Mr Stahl and other dev...i realized there s one and only one team building both C store and core game items...so making a C store item takes away something from the core game. So technically we pay for C store items to be made by our subscription fees...
The issue is the average STO players is just a middle age Star trek fan who has the mean to spend more money to get a better star trek experience from this game...why would he be complaining about the C store...Don t get me wrong... it s me in a nutshell.. if it was not a game based on star trek i would not be here today...however i try to keep an open and critical eye to avoid being a foul...
Every. Single. Post I've read from you has been whining. I will come through here and categorize every Goddamn last post if I have to. You have contributed NOTHING to this thread whatsoever, and your continued malfeasance is an eyesore to every person on this forum.
I have also seen many sage replies on both sides of this aisle but this one takes the cake. This is exactly what is going down, and I hate having wool pulled over my eyes.
This doesn't even concern my hobby as a Trekkie; this is the pure logistics of it all.
As a gamer, if you're going to dollar-and-de-cents-itize us to microtransation robbery, you deserve all the backlash you guys get, Cryptic.
If I wanted pirates for admins, I'd join PotCO. Yarr.
and there you have it.
because they ARE so popular, why not try to scam some more money out of us by putting them on the C-store?
all the not so popular stuff will be free in some patch or other but the things we REALLY want will be something we have to pay more money for.
i mean, we have been begging for the galaxy-x since closed beta, and what did they do? they yank it up on the C-store for to much money and then gimp the h*ll out of it.
well, they didn't REALLY deceive us, we just assumed the ships would be free because we already pay a subscription that in every other subscription based game on the planet would have guaranteed that they would be free.
what ticks me off the most is that they are so obviously lying to us.
somewhere in closed beta the old producer went out and promised (yes he actually promised) that each and every item they put on the C-store could be aquired through normal gameplay.
i don't mint paying extra for aditional character slots or respecs and the likes.
but when i have to pay extra to get access to stuff i ALREADY pay a SUBSCRIPTION FEE for then i get miffed...
right now it wouldn't surprise me if the weekly episodes will end up on the c-store aswell....
the C-store isnt helping this game, quite the contrary, but somehow they are h*ellbent on trying to break even with it by throwing more and more stuff on there that we have to pay for.
and the more items they throw in there the more people gets angry and quit,. its a vicious circle they they can never ever beat.
and as someone wrote above, they don't even have a dedicated team to build all these items, so what happens is that all those that do not use the store gets to pay for it anyway via their subscriptions, and still wont get access to them until they pay even more money...
we already pay a subscription for this game, why should we have to pay many many times more just to get the "full game"?
I mean no disrespect to any one and all have a right to there thoughts on a matter but you people complaining about them selling stuff in the c-store need to wake up this is there buissness and it pays there wages, keeps the lights on and oh yea keeps the game online, you have to realise how corporations work, They have to make at least a certian amount of profit to keep going that is just how it is, you have a job and like haveing money to pay your bills well where ever you work guess what they make a profit, see i use to work for a company and they closed all the plants down and moved them to china, and they didnt do it because they didnt make a profit but they didnt make a certian amount of profit, so please thi nk of this before you start complaining about then selling stuff in the cstore cause if you love the game like i do guess what they have to make money to keep it going and to keep makeing improvements
You might have had a point with the lights and such if this game were free to play, it is not. The monthly fees are there to make them go. But they´re smart too, so they sell all the star trek stuff on the black market known as the c-store.
There is a not a single product I can think of that I love so much that I would support no matter the cost to me. My goal is to have a product I enjoy at a price point that I feel is worth the value. If the cost outpaces the value, the product is worthless to me, regardless of quality, and their need to sustain a profit no longer matters to me.
You see, I made it all the way through Economics, where they talked about how capitalism is NOT just about the producer trying to maximize profits while minimizing cost. It is also about the consumer trying to maximize value while minimizing costs. It is a semi-adversarial system that only works if BOTH sides work to squeeze as much as they can out of the other. Then, it meets in the middle at the optimal result for all parties. If one side doesn't push back, they get steamrolled and the whole system falls apart.
As a capitalist consumer, my part in the system is more important to me than any particular product. Star Trek or no Star Trek, I refuse to give Cryptic a free pass on trying to maximize my value. If the game fails, it is because it deserved to fail.
Until the asymmetrical information situation on the financial side of things is corrected with full disclosure, any arguments about the "need" of money are extremely unreasonable.
I like the veteran awards, it works as an incentive to keep paying subscriptions but making the cstore items like the excelsior and nebula is a bit of a pain to be honest.
Paying ten to fifteen quid in addition to the subscription is a bit much, especially as it is not a tangible object but a perk to game play.
I'd make them a free unlock at say captain level or something as an incentive to keep people playing the game and thus continuing to pay subscription fees.
Once you get past VA there is very little to do in my experience, offering extra items that are unlocked would be enough to keep me interested until proper additional content was released.
The moment cryptic start relying on cstore items for revenue then they are going to be in trouble.
So we get the T3 ship for in-game currency, but the T5 version is apparently going to be C-Store only. I am...not sure how I feel about this.
I suppose the fact that I am not feeling immediately quantifiable anger shows I am somewhat mollified by this half-and-half approach. The Excelsior design is old, and being giving out for "free" in a relatively appropriate block. I am...ambivalent about paying for the privilege of having it for end-game...
I am content with having the Excelsior even if it is a lower tier ship for in game currency. At least in part this does comply with the initial plan for the game and so it would be ungrateful of us to think otherwise.
However making a paid version of it for tier 5 is still a bothersome tactic on their behalf but ultimately an extra. I wish however that all their "special" ability ships were in game and not on the C store since that upsets game balance to an extend. Perhaps special abilities should have been something you chose for your ship in game (like a retrofit choice) and not dictated by the ship itself. I prefer the store staying entirely cosmetic and not introducing new mechanics that will ultimately begin to shape gameplay.
My quick fix for all these ships (Galaxy X, Excelsior, Nebula and Connie) would be making them available with emblems since they all have attributes not found in game.