Here's the long and short of it. The game released so far from complete that everything they keep touting as "new content" is really just playing catch up to where the game should've been six months ago. Even after Season 2, it will still be a far cry from the expectations of both an MMO and more importantly, a Star Trek MMO.
That's why the C-Store thing has become such a big deal because whether or not it is true, it feels like we're being gouged because the game itself is so incomplete. If this game had released with scanning and interiors and complex, engaging missions, a streamlined skill system, full Klingon content, etc. the amount of complaining about the C-Store would be minimal, and likely unjustified.
That problem is only exacerbated by putting things on there that people have been looking for since launch, like Excelsior, as well as the fact that the strongest part of the game IS the customization. So every customization option that is put behind a $ firewall, the more it feels like the content is becoming all paid content.
Here's the long and short of it. The game released so far from complete that everything they keep touting as "new content" is really just playing catch up to where the game should've been six months ago. Even after Season 2, it will still be a far cry from the expectations of both an MMO and more importantly, a Star Trek MMO.
That's why the C-Store thing has become such a big deal because whether or not it is true, it feels like we're being gouged because the game itself is so incomplete. If this game had released with scanning and interiors and complex, engaging missions, a streamlined skill system, full Klingon content, etc. the amount of complaining about the C-Store would be minimal, and likely unjustified.
That problem is only exacerbated by putting things on there that people have been looking for since launch, like Excelsior, as well as the fact that the strongest part of the game IS the customization. So every customization option that is put behind a $ firewall, the more it feels like the content is becoming all paid content.
this right here is what is going to drive away the trek fans. we like our canon stuff.
Here's the long and short of it. The game released so far from complete that everything they keep touting as "new content" is really just playing catch up to where the game should've been six months ago. Even after Season 2, it will still be a far cry from the expectations of both an MMO and more importantly, a Star Trek MMO.
That's why the C-Store thing has become such a big deal because whether or not it is true, it feels like we're being gouged because the game itself is so incomplete. If this game had released with scanning and interiors and complex, engaging missions, a streamlined skill system, full Klingon content, etc. the amount of complaining about the C-Store would be minimal, and likely unjustified.
That problem is only exacerbated by putting things on there that people have been looking for since launch, like Excelsior, as well as the fact that the strongest part of the game IS the customization. So every customization option that is put behind a $ firewall, the more it feels like the content is becoming all paid content.
If things had been released as complete as it should have been, I would be the first one telling people to stow it. I spent quite a bit of time on these boards telling people to quit whining and just Cryptic time to catch and and make it right. Well, the catching up seems to be coming to fruition, but the making it right appears to be a ways off...
this right here is what is going to drive away the trek fans. we like our canon stuff.
I think it becomes the proverbial straw. I said that from the start with the first controversies about exclusive items and whatnot. Most people would not care if the game were strong enough that such customization options were just fluff, but the game is not, so the fluff becomes the driving part of the game.
If things had been released as complete as it should have been, I would be the first one telling people to stow it. I spent quite a bit of time on these boards telling people to quit whining and just Cryptic time to catch and and make it right. Well, the catching up seems to be coming to fruition, but the making it right appears to be a ways off...
They're still pretty far behind. They have not addressed the core issue that will make or break the game, and that is basically the lack of depth. Ship interiors, and new mission options for the rotation are cosmetic changes, that while welcome, are not ultimately going to get them there.
The marketing team is probably trying to fire Stahl for talking a bit too freely.
that's a good and scary point. I have not seen Dstahl post in two days. I wonder if they did fire him or at least shut him up. maybe he was sneaking us a warning.
that's a good and scary point. I have not seen Dstahl post in two days. I wonder if they did fire him or at least shut him up. maybe he was sneaking us a warning.
he might be working on the update they have for the weekend on tribble
Well, he did say that incredibly stupid thing about them needing more C-store money because they need to support their abnormally small (and hence much cheaper to run) dev team :rolleyes:
I do think Dstahls heart is in the right place though, I hope he is able to reform the C-store.
I do think Dstahls heart is in the right place though, I hope he is able to reform the C-store.
So do I, which is why I fear he's been booted.
Do you remember Daeke? He was the community manager for Champions Online, and was always very friendly and very open to the community.
Then he answered a question on the forums about the Revelation content patch, saying it'd be a paid expansion. Next thing you know, he's out on the streets.
I don't think Stahl will be as easy to remove, nor would they want to flip people in that position again, but I do fear that he's likely being punished for telling the truth.
I think 25 bucks is to much to pay for a ship in this game that does little or nothing different then the other ships.
I could see the new ships going for 800 points, but the Galaxy X is a ripoff, I won't pay for it, and I won't pay for any other ships for that price.
I think 25 bucks is to much to pay for a ship in this game that does little or nothing different then the other ships.
I could see the new ships going for 800 points, but the Galaxy X is a ripoff, I won't pay for it, and I won't pay for any other ships for that price.
I agree 25 is to much. I fear it's going to be that way because of the Excelsior. you see they are going to have to make it tier 5 to make the most profit. now the nebula has a group that it can join. ( the galaxy group, and when I say group I mean the the group of ships that can change parts with each other ) but the excelsior does not have a group to join ( that I know of, if I'm wrong place tell me ) so chances it is going to be it's own ships. now the tier 1 cruiser is 10 dollars, and the galaxy-x tier 5 cruiser with cloak is 25. my guess is the ship is going to be in between 15 to 20. I hope I'm wrong and I wish cryptic would come and tell us what the plans is so I can lay this thread to rest.
If the C-Store is "the way to go" then that means the Devs will only put in time on C-Store fluff, rather than directly contributing to the game itself. They can swear up and down "Oh no, we won't do that!!!" but the bottom line is....the bottom line. If the accounting gurus see money coming in from C-Store, then management decisions get made, and suddenly it's all C-Store all the time.
Fine, if they want to go solely C-Store, then so be it. Put ALL the content on the C-Store, and in return, remove the Subsciption Fee. Problem solved.
To be honest, that sounds like a LOT of speculation. I say this with the fact that Season 2 is going to contain more content than probably everything on the c-store combined, especially with the new retrofits and their special abilities.
The details haven't been completely ironed out yet - so I don't have all of what you're asking for but here's what I can share.
The models for the ship are nearly complete - it is just a matter of adding the powers/class configs to the ships and then getting approval.
These ships are currently slated to have slightly different configurations with at least 1 intersting unique ability (Nebula will have some sort of awacs like power and excelsior gets transwarp to any sector ability)
We are heavily considering a suggestion posted earlier where acquiring these ships unlocks both a T3 AND T5 version. So you can fly it at Captain and then a Refit version at Admiral. (love this idea btw)
And as mentioned earlier - I'm also arguing for a way to get alternative ways to unlock these types of things in game so that there are other ways to get the ship rather than via the C-Store.
Price is completely up in the air and set by the C-Store team.
I'm actually more disturbed by the fact that they are charging 400CP for BO slots, Costumes, and Ship slots that are per character and not per account. What if you had to buy that ship for each character you wanted to use it with. This is very bad.
I got silly early on and bought enough character slots to support nine toons. Right now I have eight, with the ninth held in reserve for a Rommie. so to get two costume, ship, and Bo slots for each of my toons would be 3*400*8=9600cp. Now 2000cps = 25usd, 9600/2000=4.8 might as well call it 5. 5*25=125usd! This is madness! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YcIQYCkJPI
Like i said in your other thread, this is just another example of cryptic taking advantage of their player base's wants. (in this case, the ability to reassign transwarp end spots)
What's next? are we going to need to pay for season 3? is the real reason the ship interiors aren't 'up' on tribble because they're determining a pricing system?
Like i said in your other thread, this is just another example of cryptic taking advantage of their player base's wants. (in this case, the ability to reassign transwarp end spots)
What's next? are we going to need to pay for season 3? is the real reason the ship interiors aren't 'up' on tribble because they're determining a pricing system?
If the ship interior system is something we have to pay for, I'd quit the game right then and there. But thankfully that's not it; they are just having problems incorporating it due to the different styles of bridges. Apparently the way your interior looks is determined by your bridge layout by some degree. It's still currently slated to be available for the Season 2 launch, and I hope it gets integrated in time.
If my purchasing extra C-store points helps to fund more content, I am all for it.
There in lies the rub. To my recollection Cryptic has never once said that the C-Store funds are recycled back into STO. We have assumed that they would because that's what we hope they would do. Here is the reality. Cryptic has two games with an undeclared third title in the works. When Zink left we saw DStahl get promoted into his spot, The same Dstahl we had at launch. They even took pains to make a public statement about it on the lauch window and the official sites main page. There have been no other welcomes or congratulations to new hires to even replace the other Dev talent lost since this game launched. While not conclusive, to me that is a pretty good indicator that C-Store money is not being used to maintain or grow the STO Dev team's pre-launch numbers.
Once my half sister told a step mother that my half sister hoped my step mother would drop dead. My step mother's response was hilarious, "Hope in one hand while you **** in the other and see which one fills up first." Some how hoping that C-Store proceeds wind up giving STO more content when there is a third un-named title in the works reminds me of that story.
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
The details haven't been completely ironed out yet - so I don't have all of what you're asking for but here's what I can share.
The models for the ship are nearly complete - it is just a matter of adding the powers/class configs to the ships and then getting approval.
These ships are currently slated to have slightly different configurations with at least 1 intersting unique ability (Nebula will have some sort of awacs like power and excelsior gets transwarp to any sector ability)
We are heavily considering a suggestion posted earlier where acquiring these ships unlocks both a T3 AND T5 version. So you can fly it at Captain and then a Refit version at Admiral. (love this idea btw)
And as mentioned earlier - I'm also arguing for a way to get alternative ways to unlock these types of things in game so that there are other ways to get the ship rather than via the C-Store.
Price is completely up in the air and set by the C-Store team.
DUDE if you plan on having sector pvp in this game trust me this excelsior gets transwarp to any sector ability is gonna be A HUGE ADVANTAGE to getting troops to defend or sneak attack this just tells me planning ahead at times gets sidetracked to a new LOOK SHINY object.
Yes it has, operation "sweep the the problems under the rug" has gone into full effect. But its good to see that massively has written a nice article about cryptic and there c-store, they cant sweep that under the rug. I wonder if cryptic is getting the hint right now......
Considering that the person who should be attempting to manage their image in the press and generate good press - their Director of Marketing and Communications, who goes by the forum handle Cryptic-Ivan - is on record dismissively declaring that "bad press comes and goes", I think it's safe to say that when the forum, press, and internet communities at large speak to Cryptic's growing negative reputation it goes in one ear and out the other. And doesn't have to dodge to miss anything inbetween.
And as mentioned earlier - I'm also arguing for a way to get alternative ways to unlock these types of things in game so that there are other ways to get the ship rather than via the C-Store.
Price is completely up in the air and set by the C-Store team.
Well, dstahl is the only "face" at Cryptic I still have even a shred of faith in, so I hope he has success in his attempt to get Cryptic to live up to the original promises made about the C-store.
Also, it worried me that even the director of the game's development is so totally subject to the capricious whims of a single branch of Marketing.
DUDE if you plan on having sector pvp in this game trust me this excelsior gets transwarp to any sector ability is gonna be A HUGE ADVANTAGE to getting troops to defend or sneak attack this just tells me planning ahead at times gets sidetracked to a new LOOK SHINY object.
Hmm. I hadn't thought of that possibility. Mostly to me it was "people have been asking for the transwarp network to get fully fleshed out and they're sticking the most flexible travel on just one ship!?" It strikes me as ludicrous even if the Excelsior weren't going to be a C-store item.
Also, it worried me that even the director of the game's development is so totally subject to the capricious whims of a single branch of Marketing.
Yeah, this comment by dstahl has had me worried for a few days. If marketing is who is determining what gets pushed through to the players based on what will make them the most bucks... well, I think we've gone off the deep-end, folks.
Hmm. I hadn't thought of that possibility. Mostly to me it was "people have been asking for the transwarp network to get fully fleshed out and they're sticking the most flexible travel on just one ship!?" It strikes me as ludicrous even if the Excelsior weren't going to be a C-store item.
To me this ability is way over the top eaven more so then galaxy x IF THEY PLAN on sector pvp as dsthal keeps talking about they want in...
If they start adding stuff like this they have to do it the warhammer way with transwarp popping up for anyone in game when something in pvp gets attacked .... Thus killing any chance of launching suprise attacks, counter offensives where the enemy has least number of defenders etc.... Lots of tatical planning just gets tossed out and it will be a zerg fest..
Instead of trying to remove the Excelsior's power, I think it would be in better interest for the entire game if we lobbied for being able to change our Transwarp point to any major starbase-- similar to how hearthstones work in World of Warcraft. People have wanted that for a while and it makes a whole lot of sense, at least from a game-play perspective. Visit a starbase, speak with a resident warp technician and voila!
Instead of trying to remove the Excelsior's power, I think it would be in better interest for the entire game if we lobbied for being able to change our Transwarp point to any major starbase-- similar to how hearthstones work in World of Warcraft. People have wanted that for a while and it makes a whole lot of sense, at least from a game-play perspective. Visit a starbase, speak with a resident warp technician and voila!
well i want it removed as a transwarp to anywhere , and yes changing the transwarp to starbese to diffrent bases in game is oki that means however the excelsior power needs to be changed :P cause if we set this to the transwarp ability the special oomph in the excelsior is useless :P and it needs someting else .
Unless what they mean its gonna function like a recall bind to anywhere and not a point to where you wanna jump on the map ability , then the other side just have to calculate their numbers and such taking into adjustment the possibility of quick reinforcement :cool:
Nebula will have some sort of awacs like power and excelsior gets transwarp to any sector ability)
The Nebula should have universal BO slots. The Nebs were designed to be multi-mission that could qucikly be reconfigured, hence, the giant sensor disk/weapons pod/warp engines load outs.
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
The details haven't been completely ironed out yet - so I don't have all of what you're asking for but here's what I can share.
The models for the ship are nearly complete - it is just a matter of adding the powers/class configs to the ships and then getting approval.
These ships are currently slated to have slightly different configurations with at least 1 intersting unique ability (Nebula will have some sort of awacs like power and excelsior gets transwarp to any sector ability)
We are heavily considering a suggestion posted earlier where acquiring these ships unlocks both a T3 AND T5 version. So you can fly it at Captain and then a Refit version at Admiral. (love this idea btw)
And as mentioned earlier - I'm also arguing for a way to get alternative ways to unlock these types of things in game so that there are other ways to get the ship rather than via the C-Store.
Price is completely up in the air and set by the C-Store team.
DUDE if you plan on having sector pvp in this game trust me this excelsior gets transwarp to any sector ability is gonna be A HUGE ADVANTAGE to getting troops to defend or sneak attack this just tells me planning ahead at times gets sidetracked to a new LOOK SHINY object.
I want to know where the new Klingon ships with interesting unique abilities factors in to this. I guess it won't as they're too busy knocking up ships to sell in C-store than developing much needed additions to the Klingon factor.
Update 2 shows their mentality, feds get 3 new ships (even if they are just refits, with special abilities), Klinks get 1 carrier. They then announce two new ships coming to the C-store. The C-store development time could have produced 2 new ships/refits for the Klingon Empire but I guess we're not important enough... This is the problem with the C-store, it is taking much needed development away from the parts of the game desperately needs the extra content.
Comments
That's why the C-Store thing has become such a big deal because whether or not it is true, it feels like we're being gouged because the game itself is so incomplete. If this game had released with scanning and interiors and complex, engaging missions, a streamlined skill system, full Klingon content, etc. the amount of complaining about the C-Store would be minimal, and likely unjustified.
That problem is only exacerbated by putting things on there that people have been looking for since launch, like Excelsior, as well as the fact that the strongest part of the game IS the customization. So every customization option that is put behind a $ firewall, the more it feels like the content is becoming all paid content.
this right here is what is going to drive away the trek fans. we like our canon stuff.
If things had been released as complete as it should have been, I would be the first one telling people to stow it. I spent quite a bit of time on these boards telling people to quit whining and just Cryptic time to catch and and make it right. Well, the catching up seems to be coming to fruition, but the making it right appears to be a ways off...
I think it becomes the proverbial straw. I said that from the start with the first controversies about exclusive items and whatnot. Most people would not care if the game were strong enough that such customization options were just fluff, but the game is not, so the fluff becomes the driving part of the game.
They're still pretty far behind. They have not addressed the core issue that will make or break the game, and that is basically the lack of depth. Ship interiors, and new mission options for the rotation are cosmetic changes, that while welcome, are not ultimately going to get them there.
We should be lucky they havent closed all the threads which is Cryptic SOP when they are proven to be without honor!
I don't wish any ill upon anyone, but I do hope that there have been some "passionate conversations" with the hallowed walls of The Great Hall today.
that's a good and scary point. I have not seen Dstahl post in two days. I wonder if they did fire him or at least shut him up. maybe he was sneaking us a warning.
he might be working on the update they have for the weekend on tribble
hey sneaky"maybe he was sneaking us a warning. "
I do think Dstahls heart is in the right place though, I hope he is able to reform the C-store.
that is true.....
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So do I, which is why I fear he's been booted.
Do you remember Daeke? He was the community manager for Champions Online, and was always very friendly and very open to the community.
Then he answered a question on the forums about the Revelation content patch, saying it'd be a paid expansion. Next thing you know, he's out on the streets.
I don't think Stahl will be as easy to remove, nor would they want to flip people in that position again, but I do fear that he's likely being punished for telling the truth.
I could see the new ships going for 800 points, but the Galaxy X is a ripoff, I won't pay for it, and I won't pay for any other ships for that price.
I agree 25 is to much. I fear it's going to be that way because of the Excelsior. you see they are going to have to make it tier 5 to make the most profit. now the nebula has a group that it can join. ( the galaxy group, and when I say group I mean the the group of ships that can change parts with each other ) but the excelsior does not have a group to join ( that I know of, if I'm wrong place tell me ) so chances it is going to be it's own ships. now the tier 1 cruiser is 10 dollars, and the galaxy-x tier 5 cruiser with cloak is 25. my guess is the ship is going to be in between 15 to 20. I hope I'm wrong and I wish cryptic would come and tell us what the plans is so I can lay this thread to rest.
To be honest, that sounds like a LOT of speculation. I say this with the fact that Season 2 is going to contain more content than probably everything on the c-store combined, especially with the new retrofits and their special abilities.
I got silly early on and bought enough character slots to support nine toons. Right now I have eight, with the ninth held in reserve for a Rommie. so to get two costume, ship, and Bo slots for each of my toons would be 3*400*8=9600cp. Now 2000cps = 25usd, 9600/2000=4.8 might as well call it 5. 5*25=125usd! This is madness! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YcIQYCkJPI
Like i said in your other thread, this is just another example of cryptic taking advantage of their player base's wants. (in this case, the ability to reassign transwarp end spots)
What's next? are we going to need to pay for season 3? is the real reason the ship interiors aren't 'up' on tribble because they're determining a pricing system?
If the ship interior system is something we have to pay for, I'd quit the game right then and there. But thankfully that's not it; they are just having problems incorporating it due to the different styles of bridges. Apparently the way your interior looks is determined by your bridge layout by some degree. It's still currently slated to be available for the Season 2 launch, and I hope it gets integrated in time.
There in lies the rub. To my recollection Cryptic has never once said that the C-Store funds are recycled back into STO. We have assumed that they would because that's what we hope they would do. Here is the reality. Cryptic has two games with an undeclared third title in the works. When Zink left we saw DStahl get promoted into his spot, The same Dstahl we had at launch. They even took pains to make a public statement about it on the lauch window and the official sites main page. There have been no other welcomes or congratulations to new hires to even replace the other Dev talent lost since this game launched. While not conclusive, to me that is a pretty good indicator that C-Store money is not being used to maintain or grow the STO Dev team's pre-launch numbers.
Once my half sister told a step mother that my half sister hoped my step mother would drop dead. My step mother's response was hilarious, "Hope in one hand while you **** in the other and see which one fills up first." Some how hoping that C-Store proceeds wind up giving STO more content when there is a third un-named title in the works reminds me of that story.
The details haven't been completely ironed out yet - so I don't have all of what you're asking for but here's what I can share.
The models for the ship are nearly complete - it is just a matter of adding the powers/class configs to the ships and then getting approval.
These ships are currently slated to have slightly different configurations with at least 1 intersting unique ability (Nebula will have some sort of awacs like power and excelsior gets transwarp to any sector ability)
We are heavily considering a suggestion posted earlier where acquiring these ships unlocks both a T3 AND T5 version. So you can fly it at Captain and then a Refit version at Admiral. (love this idea btw)
And as mentioned earlier - I'm also arguing for a way to get alternative ways to unlock these types of things in game so that there are other ways to get the ship rather than via the C-Store.
Price is completely up in the air and set by the C-Store team.
DUDE if you plan on having sector pvp in this game trust me this excelsior gets transwarp to any sector ability is gonna be A HUGE ADVANTAGE to getting troops to defend or sneak attack this just tells me planning ahead at times gets sidetracked to a new LOOK SHINY object.
Article linky?
Considering that the person who should be attempting to manage their image in the press and generate good press - their Director of Marketing and Communications, who goes by the forum handle Cryptic-Ivan - is on record dismissively declaring that "bad press comes and goes", I think it's safe to say that when the forum, press, and internet communities at large speak to Cryptic's growing negative reputation it goes in one ear and out the other. And doesn't have to dodge to miss anything inbetween.
Well, dstahl is the only "face" at Cryptic I still have even a shred of faith in, so I hope he has success in his attempt to get Cryptic to live up to the original promises made about the C-store.
Also, it worried me that even the director of the game's development is so totally subject to the capricious whims of a single branch of Marketing.
Hmm. I hadn't thought of that possibility. Mostly to me it was "people have been asking for the transwarp network to get fully fleshed out and they're sticking the most flexible travel on just one ship!?" It strikes me as ludicrous even if the Excelsior weren't going to be a C-store item.
Yeah, this comment by dstahl has had me worried for a few days. If marketing is who is determining what gets pushed through to the players based on what will make them the most bucks... well, I think we've gone off the deep-end, folks.
To me this ability is way over the top eaven more so then galaxy x IF THEY PLAN on sector pvp as dsthal keeps talking about they want in...
If they start adding stuff like this they have to do it the warhammer way with transwarp popping up for anyone in game when something in pvp gets attacked .... Thus killing any chance of launching suprise attacks, counter offensives where the enemy has least number of defenders etc.... Lots of tatical planning just gets tossed out and it will be a zerg fest..
well i want it removed as a transwarp to anywhere , and yes changing the transwarp to starbese to diffrent bases in game is oki that means however the excelsior power needs to be changed :P cause if we set this to the transwarp ability the special oomph in the excelsior is useless :P and it needs someting else .
Unless what they mean its gonna function like a recall bind to anywhere and not a point to where you wanna jump on the map ability , then the other side just have to calculate their numbers and such taking into adjustment the possibility of quick reinforcement :cool:
The Nebula should have universal BO slots. The Nebs were designed to be multi-mission that could qucikly be reconfigured, hence, the giant sensor disk/weapons pod/warp engines load outs.
I want to know where the new Klingon ships with interesting unique abilities factors in to this. I guess it won't as they're too busy knocking up ships to sell in C-store than developing much needed additions to the Klingon factor.
Update 2 shows their mentality, feds get 3 new ships (even if they are just refits, with special abilities), Klinks get 1 carrier. They then announce two new ships coming to the C-store. The C-store development time could have produced 2 new ships/refits for the Klingon Empire but I guess we're not important enough... This is the problem with the C-store, it is taking much needed development away from the parts of the game desperately needs the extra content.
MADNESS...THIS IS CRYPTIC!!!!!
MADNESS