dont really matter no more only thing this has done for me is i dont need to buy anything extra pre launch since i know it will all end up in game anyhow....
I think the Borg as is should still be in the current LTS myself.
But this also points out the flaw in this poll. It's not just 2 answers to this and the OP trying to make it just two answers shows he's out of touch with a lot of people so his poll is meaningless.
I don't have a problem with a "modified" (without traits Borg Captain being made available with the current LTS,
or putting the parts into the character creator and excluding the "exclusive" traits.
No... there are to many borg already, and the liberated borg take away from the awesomeness of the borg. I was apposed to the borg in the fast place, and I really don't want to see more of them running around.
if it is put on the C-store, to me this will be equal to what the NGE did to jedi. there will be to many of them, they won't be awesome, and they will almost all be played by little children who could not get the life time in the first place.
also I'm not a life time, so I have nothing to lose by this.
I don't have a problem with a "modified" (without traits Borg Captain being made available with the current LTS,
or putting the parts into the character creator and excluding the "exclusive" traits.
I missed this stipulation, it does not satisfy my #3.
Since it does not, I have to ask:
Why do you get a "better" game than them, yet pay the same (actually less) price?
The game you are playing is not the same game they are playing, right? We established that.
This game we all play is called "Star Trek Online", yet your game is different than mine, and mine is different from theirs, and so on. Why do we all pay the same if we do not all play the same? (I am not talking style, I am talking content)
I would, as a customer, fight tooth and nail until I had an EQUAL product to those who pay the same, or in this case, less than me for said product.
There is no defense against that, period. I am a customer, I paid for a product. And as it stands, someone has a mislabeled product on their hard drive. Because my Trek game is NOT the same as yours.
I missed this stipulation, it does not satisfy my #3.
Since it does not, I have to ask:
Why do you get a "better" game than them, yet pay the same (actually less) price?
The game you are playing is not the same game they are playing, right? We established that.
This game we all play is called "Star Trek Online", yet your game is different than mine, and mine is different from theirs, and so on. Why do we all pay the same if we do not all play the same? (I am not talking style, I am talking content)
I would, as a customer, fight tooth and nail until I had an EQUAL product to those who pay the same, or in this case, less than me for said product.
There is no defense against that, period. I am a customer, I paid for a product. And as it stands, someone has a mislabeled product on their hard drive. Because my Trek game is NOT the same as yours.
It is the principle that is was a Preorder Prelaunch investor" Exclusive" For those who essentially paid for "nothing" or the hope this title would last long enough for the LTS to pay for it self.
Yes, put the liberated borg in the Cstore. They already crossed that line with the MU uniforms so they need to be consistent and fair.
The difference is the Borg was an Actual "exclusive", The MU set was listed as an incentive, "Unique" item.
So the comparison does not apply. I have the original Champions offer on there forum it never used the word exclusive with this bonus set.
The difference is the Borg was an Actual "exclusive", The MU set was listed as an incentive, "Unique" item.
So the comparison does not apply.
No exclusive is forever and they release CE and DDE exclusives.
We get lifetime access. We get an exclusive title and early access to the Captain's Table.
I agree we see too many Borg but that probably just means they need to go back and give the core races some loving, so we'll see more humans, Klingons and Vulcans. And they're doing that somewhat KDF side by giving each core race unique costume pieces.
Personally, I think they should buff the required racial traits of the races that should be visually more common and give humans and Vulcans some nifty perks.
But, by all means, get everything out on the C-Store. Get the outrage over and done with so people can either have a coronary or move on.
No exclusive is forever and they release CE and DDE exclusives.
We get lifetime access. We get an exclusive title and early access to the Captain's Table.
I agree we see too many Borg but that probably just means they need to go back and give the core races some loving, so we'll see more humans, Klingons and Vulcans. And they're doing that somewhat KDF side by giving each core race unique costume pieces.
Personally, I think they should buff the required racial traits of the races that should be visually more common and give humans and Vulcans some nifty perks.
But, by all means, get everything out on the C-Store. Get the outrage over and done with so people can either have a coronary or move on.
Go check the advertisement Stormshade has the "exclusive" removed from the Collectors Edition and the DDE
In retail sales, a bait and switch is a form of fraud in which the party putting forth the fraud lures in customers by advertising a product or service at a low price or with many features, then reveals to potential customers that the advertised good is not available at the original price or list of assumed features, but something different is. This use of this term has extended to similar situations outside of the marketing sense.
The goal of the bait-and-switch is to convince some buyers to purchase the substitute goods as a means of avoiding disappointment over not getting the bait, or as a way to recover sunk costs expended to try to obtain the bait. It suggests that the seller will not show the original product or products advertised but instead will demonstrate a more expensive product or a similar product with a higher margin. Other advertising practices, such as the use of sales techniques to steer customers away from low-profit items, depend on many of the same psychological mechanisms as a bait and switch.
I have no issue with it being added from a fairness standpoint.
My only issue is that Borg are way too common already.
My suggestion would be to offer Augments, who would be functionally identical.
Augmented Healing
Constantly regenerates shields and health.
+10% Health Regeneration, +10% Shield Regeneration
Efficient Captain
Provides a bonus to efficiency stats, improving the effectiveness of many of your power management abilities.
+5 bonus to Starship Shield, Engine, Energy Weapon, and Auxilary Systems Efficiency
OPTIONAL:
Regulan Bloodworms
Inject the target with neural parasites, which continually attempt to hold the target for the duration. Also reduces the target's movement speed.
-75% Run Speed for 30 sec, 40% chance: +2 Hold for 3 seconds, applies Hold Resist upon expiration.
I don't know about anyone else, but it had exactly nothing to do with their attributes as to why I like to play the liberated borg... It's simply the appearence (i.e. the borg parts you can add to them). So augments would be utterly an worthless gesture as far as I am concerned.
It's only a bait-and-switch if they sell you something by telling you that you will receive something that in the end you do not. That has not happened. You received the liberated borg character as promised.
It was never promised that it would never be available in some other way, just like ALL of the pre-order/package/lifetimer items. Those were given to you (you did not buy the bonus items, they were by definition a free bonus, you bought the game.) and never taken away, even if they were offered in another fashion later on, there is no harm nor foul, neither legally nor ethically.
Nitpicking over the definition of exclusive is futile at best, suffice it to say that unless a time was given in the mention of exclusivity, it is never a "forever" thing.
(That's not fair, before you had my money it was!)
What I mean they made the items change announcement, then updated the advertisement opposed to selling the Items another way and claiming that this is the only way to get it.
We squabble with each other, when we should focus on Cryptic.
The goal of the bait-and-switch is to convince some buyers to purchase the substitute goods as a means of avoiding disappointment over not getting the bait
This didn't happen?
Here let me try this:
The goal of making MU "unique" is to convince some buyers to purchase the "special offer (substituted for regular offer) as a means of avoiding disappointment over not getting the MU Uniforms.
Sure looks like that happened to me...
It suggests that the seller will not show the original product or products advertised but instead will demonstrate a more expensive product or a similar product with a higher margin.
Again, this looks like it happened. As per "unique".
Like I said, I am giving up. I grow weary of pointing out ways to "get back" at their tactics.
Legality
In the United States, courts have held that the purveyor using a bait and switch operation may be subject to a lawsuit by customers for false advertising...
We squabble with each other, when we should focus on Cryptic.
This didn't happen?
Here let me try this:
The goal of making MU "unique" is to convince some buyers to purchase the "special offer (substituted for regular offer) as a means of avoiding disappointment over not getting the MU Uniforms.
Sure looks like that happened to me...
Again, this looks like it happened. As per "unique".
Like I said, I am giving up. I grow weary of pointing out ways to "get back" at their tactics.
NO. This didn't happen. Did you get your MU? Did they make you buy something ELSE instead of, or in addition to, giving you your MU for getting the CO lifetime account? No? Then no, it didn't happen. You are twisting the concept and definition of bait-and-switch to assuage your lack of personal responsibility. Pretty simple actually. You cannot equate a second offer 120+ days LATER to bait and switch. They would have had to offer the MU's seperately FIRST, then say it's only available with the CO lifetime account when you added it to your cart, that's how bait and switch works... As it is, it is just remarketing a past product, nothing more. :rolleyes:
The difference is the Borg was an Actual "exclusive", The MU set was listed as an incentive, "Unique" item.
So the comparison does not apply. I have the original Champions offer on there forum it never used the word exclusive with this bonus set.
Again... exclusive does not automatically imply a specific time limit of said exclusivity. Exclusivity is a marketing device. One that anyone who grew up with TV, in America should be painfully familiar with and wary of.
This all comes down to personal responsibility and being a savvy consumer. :rolleyes:
Im not happy with them adding the pre-order bonuses and I dont thing that the borg should be added eather. I payed for the life time not just that ill never have to pay a sub again, but that it came with a perk "Liberated Borg". It should stay that way NO ONE ELSE should get it EVER.
They should make borg a playable fraction instead if they do anything with the borg
NO. This didn't happen. Did you get your MU? Did they make you buy something ELSE instead of, or in addition to, giving you your MU for getting the CO lifetime account? No? Then no, it didn't happen. You are twisting the concept and definition of bait-and-switch to assuage your lack of personal responsibility. Pretty simple actually. You cannot equate a second offer 120+ days LATER to bait and switch. They would have had to offer the MU's seperately FIRST, then say it's only available with the CO lifetime account when you added it to your cart, that's how bait and switch works... As it is, it is just remarketing a past product, nothing more. :rolleyes:
Well since I never have, nor will, play CO I am confused at your stance (and ad-hominem attack).
Show me how I twisted it please? All I did was replace the wiki definition with the words Star Trek Online
Like I said, I give up. (More or less, at this point)
FYI I do have the MU uniforms, got them through the C-Store! Which is where all these items should be, actually they should just be in the game...but that is my personal opinion.
Again... exclusive does not automatically imply a specific time limit of said exclusivity. Exclusivity is a marketing device. One that anyone who grew up with TV, in America should be painfully familiar with and wary of.
This all comes down to personal responsibility and being a savvy consumer. :rolleyes:
Which is entirely irrelevant to the point I was making. The person I was replying to has a ridiculous problem with denying facts.
My point is simply, since MU and liberated borg were both exclusives then there is no reason both should not be now on the Cstore since one of them is.
The difference is the Borg was an Actual "exclusive", The MU set was listed as an incentive, "Unique" item.
So the comparison does not apply. I have the original Champions offer on there forum it never used the word exclusive with this bonus set.
This is not about "exclusive" and "unique". This is about fairness and few people seem to be seeing this point. One exclusive item that was touted as being available only one way...EVER...was just recently put up on the C-Store for $3.50. I didn't like it then and I still don't like it now. But what's done is done and I see no point in keeping some items to ourselves while others are free for all (at a substantially reduced price). I am a pre-order lifer. I have the Liberated Borg. I have no problem with others getting it the same way that people are getting the other items. The decision made a couple weeks ago has set a precedence that will continue on and include every single piece of digital material released to date and in the future. Expect to see the Borg captain up for 280CP in a month's time and the Galaxy-X for 1000CP in a month or two as well. I am done with this argument from this point forward as nobody seems to be seeing the big picture except for a few of us.
Which is entirely irrelevant to the point I was making. The person I was replying to has a ridiculous problem with denying facts.
My point is simply, since MU and liberated borg were both exclusives then there is no reason both should not be now on the Cstore since one of them is.
If you were referring to I, my stance is solely based on facts. Without emotion or a sense of fairness, it is what it is.
This is not about "exclusive" and "unique". This is about fairness and few people seem to be seeing this point. One exclusive item that was touted as being available only one way...EVER...was just recently put up on the C-Store for $3.50. I didn't like it then and I still don't like it now. But what's done is done and I see no point in keeping some items to ourselves while others are free for all (at a substantially reduced price). I am a pre-order lifer. I have the Liberated Borg. I have no problem with others getting it the same way that people are getting the other items. The decision made a couple weeks ago has set a precedence that will continue on and include every single piece of digital material released to date and in the future. Expect to see the Borg captain up for 280CP in a month's time and the Galaxy-X for 1000CP in a month or two as well. I am done with this argument from this point forward as nobody seems to be seeing the big picture except for a few of us.
I understand the point your making, I don't see the relevance of doing something that would undermine the prelaunch investment offer to be out of fairness for putting other things in the C-Store.
I do not find that line of thinking illogical, merely emotional.
Comments
I don't have a problem with a "modified" (without traits Borg Captain being made available with the current LTS,
or putting the parts into the character creator and excluding the "exclusive" traits.
if it is put on the C-store, to me this will be equal to what the NGE did to jedi. there will be to many of them, they won't be awesome, and they will almost all be played by little children who could not get the life time in the first place.
also I'm not a life time, so I have nothing to lose by this.
I missed this stipulation, it does not satisfy my #3.
Since it does not, I have to ask:
Why do you get a "better" game than them, yet pay the same (actually less) price?
The game you are playing is not the same game they are playing, right? We established that.
This game we all play is called "Star Trek Online", yet your game is different than mine, and mine is different from theirs, and so on. Why do we all pay the same if we do not all play the same? (I am not talking style, I am talking content)
I would, as a customer, fight tooth and nail until I had an EQUAL product to those who pay the same, or in this case, less than me for said product.
There is no defense against that, period. I am a customer, I paid for a product. And as it stands, someone has a mislabeled product on their hard drive. Because my Trek game is NOT the same as yours.
It is the principle that is was a Preorder Prelaunch investor" Exclusive" For those who essentially paid for "nothing" or the hope this title would last long enough for the LTS to pay for it self.
The difference is the Borg was an Actual "exclusive", The MU set was listed as an incentive, "Unique" item.
So the comparison does not apply. I have the original Champions offer on there forum it never used the word exclusive with this bonus set.
No exclusive is forever and they release CE and DDE exclusives.
We get lifetime access. We get an exclusive title and early access to the Captain's Table.
I agree we see too many Borg but that probably just means they need to go back and give the core races some loving, so we'll see more humans, Klingons and Vulcans. And they're doing that somewhat KDF side by giving each core race unique costume pieces.
Personally, I think they should buff the required racial traits of the races that should be visually more common and give humans and Vulcans some nifty perks.
But, by all means, get everything out on the C-Store. Get the outrage over and done with so people can either have a coronary or move on.
Go check the advertisement Stormshade has the "exclusive" removed from the Collectors Edition and the DDE
Wouldn't that constitute a "bait and switch"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_and_switch
Who knows?
I don't know about anyone else, but it had exactly nothing to do with their attributes as to why I like to play the liberated borg... It's simply the appearence (i.e. the borg parts you can add to them). So augments would be utterly an worthless gesture as far as I am concerned.
I would say no because the change happened after the fact, and those Items are still available with through the DDE and CE.
LOL That is the whole point of a bait and switch!
They bait you in, the switch it out!
"We have this unique item!"
(I gotta get that, here's my money Cryptic)
"The item is not unique."
(That's not fair, before you had my money it was!)
It's only a bait-and-switch if they sell you something by telling you that you will receive something that in the end you do not. That has not happened. You received the liberated borg character as promised.
It was never promised that it would never be available in some other way, just like ALL of the pre-order/package/lifetimer items. Those were given to you (you did not buy the bonus items, they were by definition a free bonus, you bought the game.) and never taken away, even if they were offered in another fashion later on, there is no harm nor foul, neither legally nor ethically.
Nitpicking over the definition of exclusive is futile at best, suffice it to say that unless a time was given in the mention of exclusivity, it is never a "forever" thing.
What I mean they made the items change announcement, then updated the advertisement opposed to selling the Items another way and claiming that this is the only way to get it.
We squabble with each other, when we should focus on Cryptic.
This didn't happen?
Here let me try this:
The goal of making MU "unique" is to convince some buyers to purchase the "special offer (substituted for regular offer) as a means of avoiding disappointment over not getting the MU Uniforms.
Sure looks like that happened to me...
Again, this looks like it happened. As per "unique".
Like I said, I am giving up. I grow weary of pointing out ways to "get back" at their tactics.
NO. This didn't happen. Did you get your MU? Did they make you buy something ELSE instead of, or in addition to, giving you your MU for getting the CO lifetime account? No? Then no, it didn't happen. You are twisting the concept and definition of bait-and-switch to assuage your lack of personal responsibility. Pretty simple actually. You cannot equate a second offer 120+ days LATER to bait and switch. They would have had to offer the MU's seperately FIRST, then say it's only available with the CO lifetime account when you added it to your cart, that's how bait and switch works... As it is, it is just remarketing a past product, nothing more. :rolleyes:
Wrong, it was explicitly called exclusive.
I have done much research on this issue, and the black and white facts do not support that.
The only use of the word exclusive was explained by Rekhan that the offer was a STO community exclusive
Again... exclusive does not automatically imply a specific time limit of said exclusivity. Exclusivity is a marketing device. One that anyone who grew up with TV, in America should be painfully familiar with and wary of.
This all comes down to personal responsibility and being a savvy consumer. :rolleyes:
They should make borg a playable fraction instead if they do anything with the borg
Well since I never have, nor will, play CO I am confused at your stance (and ad-hominem attack).
Show me how I twisted it please? All I did was replace the wiki definition with the words Star Trek Online
Like I said, I give up. (More or less, at this point)
FYI I do have the MU uniforms, got them through the C-Store! Which is where all these items should be, actually they should just be in the game...but that is my personal opinion.
Which is entirely irrelevant to the point I was making. The person I was replying to has a ridiculous problem with denying facts.
My point is simply, since MU and liberated borg were both exclusives then there is no reason both should not be now on the Cstore since one of them is.
This is not about "exclusive" and "unique". This is about fairness and few people seem to be seeing this point. One exclusive item that was touted as being available only one way...EVER...was just recently put up on the C-Store for $3.50. I didn't like it then and I still don't like it now. But what's done is done and I see no point in keeping some items to ourselves while others are free for all (at a substantially reduced price). I am a pre-order lifer. I have the Liberated Borg. I have no problem with others getting it the same way that people are getting the other items. The decision made a couple weeks ago has set a precedence that will continue on and include every single piece of digital material released to date and in the future. Expect to see the Borg captain up for 280CP in a month's time and the Galaxy-X for 1000CP in a month or two as well. I am done with this argument from this point forward as nobody seems to be seeing the big picture except for a few of us.
1A-2B-3C-10Char
If you were referring to I, my stance is solely based on facts. Without emotion or a sense of fairness, it is what it is.
My stance, unfortunately, is wading through the fallacious waters of the "Perfect World"...
I will argue it till I am blue in the face though
I understand the point your making, I don't see the relevance of doing something that would undermine the prelaunch investment offer to be out of fairness for putting other things in the C-Store.
I do not find that line of thinking illogical, merely emotional.
/ understood, I agree in a perfect world your argument would be tops, It is a strong argument even in this world