Given that the Negh'Var studio model is an alteration of the original Vor'cha model, it might be easier for everyone involved (Devs AND players) to point this out when critiquing both ships, as fixing the Vor'cha will naturally fix some parts of the Negh'Var.
Bernd Schneider (Ex Astris Scientia has a excellent write-up (w/ images) on the Negh'Var, and I'd flat out recommend that anyone reading this go through his Starship Galleries & Starship Articles for tons of great references and analyses for virtually EVERY ship in the ST universe.
I could add an entire topic worth of new material to this thread, but I'll start with a few ships that so far aren't addressed yet.
Centaur
Almost everything about this ship is wrong, though this is not at all a fault of Cryptic/PWE. The "official" references (ST: The Magazine, DS9TM) botched this and other ships so much it's almost pathetic.
Overall top view - Note not just the many copper details, but also the Miranda-class bridge used instead of the proportionally tiny Excelsior bridge used for the STO version. Overall side view
Adam Buckner, a veteran FX artist and member of the DS9 FX team, who was responsible for creating the Centaur model, explains that the Excelsior components used for the Centaur are not to scale and that the Miranda parts are actually to scale with the "real" Miranda, which means that the STO team is correct in the scale of the two classes. However, the teeny tiny bridge for the in-game ship is kind of laughable, and if anything, fixing that would be more than enough for me.
Prometheus
I hesitate to post the "official" references for the Prometheus Class, as quite honestly, Cryptic's model as actually miles better than the CG model that VOY used. I'm not even kidding.
A few years back, I managed to scan and submit the article Rick had published in ST: The Magazine to a friend of mine. The article is a great read; telling the story and concept of the ship from paper to screen, but the images are especially interesing.
These two images are actually final draft, 3/4 views of what the CG company was supposed to build, and it becomes obvious that the CG model was FUBAR like you wouldn't believe. We ended up with a ship that lacks half of the details, what details did make it were wrong, and geometry apparently warped via digital blowtorch.
While I'd rather have Cryptic err on the side of what we saw onscreen for ship appearances, the Prometheus is a special case, as what they have in-game is actually closer to the blueprints than the show used. Other than general coloration of the lifeboats (which were custom, hexagonal lifeboats Rick came up with just for that episode) and the hull, I'd rather they actually ignore the screen model and stick to the line-drawings if they ever decide to rework this lady.
I know the likely-hood of getting my post recognized without putting as much effort or time into it as the above posts typically do is next to nothing, however, I'd like to once again point out the obvious in saying that the ship models feel too small.
Right now, I feel like I'm flying a toy and I even have the Vice Admiral Emissary class. I love the look of the ship but as it stands it feels much smaller than it really is. I suggest a simple change in camera positioning and zoom distance to fix the tiny appearance of this vessel. There is no requirement to enlarge the model or make the texture more detailed, just allow us to zoom in further and adopt more cinema style camera angles to give us the illusion that it's bigger than it really is.
Obviously model and texture work is a lot more complex than camera angle work, so I figured suggesting you make the texture bigger and more detailed would be impractical, especially with other priorities. Hopefully you guys can figure something out, because right now, the interiors are too big and the exteriors are too small!
so when they gonna fix the nacelle and the nose on the defiant to be in line with studio model as outlined in the images posted for the problems with the defiant?
I know it's an old issue but I'd still like to see the Romulan D'deridex-class warbird to be made bigger, at least in comparison to the Scimitar. Based on the ship size chart used for Nemesis by John Eaves: Size Chart.
The Scimitar is listed by Eaves at 2920 feet, whereas Andrew Probert put the D'deridex length at around 4440 feet.
When are the devs going to fix the sovereigns warp nacelles? They need to be risen to there right height! I remember reading one of Gene Roddenbary's rule for warp nacelles was that the front of it is supposed to be visable all the time, either above or below the saucer. eg.
When are the devs going to fix the sovereigns warp nacelles? They need to be risen to there right height! I remember reading one of Gene Roddenbary's rule for warp nacelles was that the front of it is supposed to be visable all the time, either above or below the saucer. eg.
WTF are you talking about, you can clear see the nacelles on the connie and the ambassdor.
Yes, but they are partially obstructed, just like on the Sovereign.
My point is that I don't see any reason to raise them right now.
Could you please show an image that shows what you mean exactly?
Yes, but they are partially obstructed, just like on the Sovereign.
My point is that I don't see any reason to raise them right now.
Could you please show an image that shows what you mean exactly?
That does not matter if it is partially obstructed, that is how it is supposed to be and yes the sovy's nacelles should be like that but the point is they are not!. Sorry I should of said first that they are not showing at all but hiding behind the saucer and I find it annoying and inaccurate to its counterpart in the films and other st games.
Because the webmaster has blocked hotlinking.
Okay. well here is another image i posted earlier but it is not from EAS.
And to further complicate the Sovereign issue, here's an article by Eaves himself on the changes ("refits") of the E from FC to NEM, and also that there was going to be a Motion Picture-style makeover at the end of NEM after the E had been repaired and got a new XO, but that was cut before it could be CGed.
And to further complicate the Sovereign issue, here's an article by Eaves himself on the changes ("refits") of the E from FC to NEM, and also that there was going to be a Motion Picture-style makeover at the end of NEM after the E had been repaired and got a new XO, but that was cut before it could be CGed.
LMAO its not complicated, this what happens in really life when new tech etc comes out and you add those updates to an exsisting ships, you are one of many players who have posted that image here including me and we all love to have that in the game, yes in nemesis the E we see is actually a half done refit, they were going to finish her off at the end of nemesis but due to budget cuts it was taken out :mad:. Even in the pic and in nemesis the nacelles have been risen and are visible.
Thanks, but unfortunately I'm still not sure what your problem is.
Are the nacelles on the version in game not high enough compared to the image?
Yep, amoung other inaccurate things about the sovy i can point out. yes the nacelles are too low. Same for the excelsior i think. I'm not saying that the ships in game are really bad but at least the basic shape should match as close as possible to their counterparts in the series and movies.
So much for having two ship artists to assist in addressing the backlog we have maintained. Since CaptLogan is migrating to another company, that leaves Ian (who hasn't been formally introduced to us yet) as the only ship modeler for STO. I'm hopeful that Ian will also get an apprentice to support his effort.
I really hope at some point the issues with the Galaxy can be addressed. The neck looks wrong it's only a slight inaccuracy but on a ship that fans of TNG like myself know like the back of their hand it really stands out!
I really hope at some point the issues with the Galaxy can be addressed. The neck looks wrong it's only a slight inaccuracy but on a ship that fans of TNG like myself know like the back of their hand it really stands out!
One thing I did notice recently about the Galaxy-class was how the nacelles attach to the pylons. The Nebula-class has the correct geometry on both pylon and nacelle, but it seems the Galaxy wasn't updated to match.
I have noticed that the Excelsior class ship won't allow you to change your bridge. If you change your bridge scene, it always resorts back to the "Standard Bridge".
Awesome Im not the only one! I moved this from the Discussion threads:
I have brought this up before, however, please allow me to explain my position. I have been modeling Star Trek subjects for twenty years. I know the silhouettes and shapes and small intricacies of every major character ship from TOS-VOY, and Enterprise, even the new Star Trek 2009 movie. The models used onscreen were auctioned off several years ago, and are in private hands now, Paramount/CBS does not have wide access to them anymore. However, there is a plethora of photographs and Okuda-grams and paintings of these ships used onscreen which are widely available on the net. I'll go in a somewhat chronological order. I will be using the very reputable ex-astris-scientia website for onscreen referencing.
TOS Enterprise- http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ar.../tos_ships.htm ; the link shows examples of the Constitution-class as seen on television, depicted in TOS and remastered TOS. Aside from the saucer not having the "rust ring" on top of the saucer. The nacelles spin is not correct, the should be spinning inward to one another, right now they both spin the same direction.
Klingon D-7/ K'Tinga- http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/d7ktinga1.htm ; The errors in the in game models are very numerous, textures of the hull in both cases, The inward angle of the nacelles on both in game ships are not correct. Behind the "head" on top of the front "bulb" the aft section is not correct. The red glow from the top of the engineering hull of the K'Tinga is not depicted in game, however clearly seen in the opening scene of Star Trek TMP.
Refit Constitution/ Movie Enterprise- http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/sc...stitution1.htm ; scroll down to see the Movie Enterprise. Again texture of the hull is not properly depicted in game, This is whats called the AZTEC PATTERN, and it has plagued the game from launch. In game its very "simplistic" the nacelles only glow on the inboard part of them. The main deflector, area around it doesnt depict the RCS thrusters. The bottom of secondary hull doesnt have the warp core ejection panels, this is also true for the TOS Enterprise. The aft part of the nacelles, the 'FINS" they aren't supposed to wrap around, they are only out board.
The in game graphics for ships are very simplistic, They are not smooth and do not depict on screen accuracy, I will continue into TNG era ships, and the improper scaling.
Galaxy-class/Enterprise D- http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/galaxy1.htm ; I remember at launch, the Galaxy-class was very incorrect. The area just below the bridge was too high, this error can still be seen on the Nebula-class model in game currently. Again, texture is the major issue with the in game model of the Galaxy, the main impulse engine and the two auxiliary shuttlebay doors are incorrect, there were two filming models used on TNG, the original designed by Andy Probert, at 6 feet in length, and a four foot used after the third season. There are windows just forward of the captains yacht that are not depicted in game, and of course, the windows for Ten Forward are not even there. they're all blank in that location in game. The nacelles in game are not even close to on screen at all, especially where they connect to the warp pylons, again its very simplistic. And the RCS thrusters are not depicted at all on the aft part of the nacelles.
D'deridex Warbird- http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/romulans1.htm ; We dont get to fly these, however, the in game depictions are not correct. The size is the most damning thing of the in game version, its supposed to be near twice the length of the Galaxy-class. And the overall detail in game is very very simplistic. Also, we don't even see Scouts or Science vessels in game. The Valdore we do see, and it again is simplistic in overall appearance.
Vor' Cha, Neg' Var- http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/sc...haneghvar1.htm ; The scale of the Vor' Cha makes it roughly the size of the Excelsior class. In game its the same size as a Galaxy-class. However the texture of the ship is correct, and I can't really find other flaws with it in game. The Neg' Var is also, almost on screen accurate, and I can't find too much wrong with it.
Sry if any of these were brought up before, I just didnt realize there were discussions of this already going, and I dont want to read 100 pages.
K-7; the size of this, according to the chart link above is also off. http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x06/trialstribbleations247.jpg ; from that angle we have 3 points of reference, the in game scale, according to the episode "Trials and Tribbleations" corroborates the scaling issue, Overall however the 'skin' of K-7 appears to be screen accurate aside from the red, green, blue tops of the three 'cones' on all sides of the station.
ESD- Perfect, Cryptic, in my opinion nailed it, SPOT ON! The scale could go up alot but it still seems appropriate. I only wish we could actually fly in...
Comments
it is the new definat refit version on the c store.
https://www.startrekonline.com/store
Added under reconnaissance science vessels.
Given that the Negh'Var studio model is an alteration of the original Vor'cha model, it might be easier for everyone involved (Devs AND players) to point this out when critiquing both ships, as fixing the Vor'cha will naturally fix some parts of the Negh'Var.
Bernd Schneider (Ex Astris Scientia has a excellent write-up (w/ images) on the Negh'Var, and I'd flat out recommend that anyone reading this go through his Starship Galleries & Starship Articles for tons of great references and analyses for virtually EVERY ship in the ST universe.
I could add an entire topic worth of new material to this thread, but I'll start with a few ships that so far aren't addressed yet.
Centaur
Again, EAS has an in-depth breakdown of the studio model, but I'll list the major features and pics below from it:
Detail of Bridge area, "nose" and forward window layout and saucer - Window color is for chromakey/compositing purposes, so their color can be ignored.
Overall top view - Note not just the many copper details, but also the Miranda-class bridge used instead of the proportionally tiny Excelsior bridge used for the STO version.
Overall side view
Prometheus
"Official" pics first, then I'll explain:
Top and side
Front, rear, and bottom
Saucer section, separated
Upper Warp Hull - This is the designation as per Sternbach's blueprints and article
Lower Warp Hull - Again, the name is as per Sternbach's blueprints
A few years back, I managed to scan and submit the article Rick had published in ST: The Magazine to a friend of mine. The article is a great read; telling the story and concept of the ship from paper to screen, but the images are especially interesing.
3/4 final draft lineart
3/4 final draft lineart
These two images are actually final draft, 3/4 views of what the CG company was supposed to build, and it becomes obvious that the CG model was FUBAR like you wouldn't believe. We ended up with a ship that lacks half of the details, what details did make it were wrong, and geometry apparently warped via digital blowtorch.
While I'd rather have Cryptic err on the side of what we saw onscreen for ship appearances, the Prometheus is a special case, as what they have in-game is actually closer to the blueprints than the show used. Other than general coloration of the lifeboats (which were custom, hexagonal lifeboats Rick came up with just for that episode) and the hull, I'd rather they actually ignore the screen model and stick to the line-drawings if they ever decide to rework this lady.
Right now, I feel like I'm flying a toy and I even have the Vice Admiral Emissary class. I love the look of the ship but as it stands it feels much smaller than it really is. I suggest a simple change in camera positioning and zoom distance to fix the tiny appearance of this vessel. There is no requirement to enlarge the model or make the texture more detailed, just allow us to zoom in further and adopt more cinema style camera angles to give us the illusion that it's bigger than it really is.
Obviously model and texture work is a lot more complex than camera angle work, so I figured suggesting you make the texture bigger and more detailed would be impractical, especially with other priorities. Hopefully you guys can figure something out, because right now, the interiors are too big and the exteriors are too small!
I honestly believe it's somewhat misplaced there since the Defiant and her variants are not science vessels but escorts.
Sorry, cerebral flatulation. I'll get it moved to the right section in a bit.
http://i.imgur.com/yUCy4.jpg
it looks awful
there is only one word to describe this...WOW.
The Scimitar is listed by Eaves at 2920 feet, whereas Andrew Probert put the D'deridex length at around 4440 feet.
Better than the high resolution shots from the Christie's Auction?
In most cases not, but shots showing the secondary hull battle bridge exterior are clearer.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/design.htm
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/gus/1701e-gus-front.jpg
Sorry, but you can't link to images on EAS.
As far as I know the nacelles don't have to completely visible, they weren't completley visible on the refit Connie or the Ambassador class either:
http://trekazoid.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/tmp-enterprise-views.jpg
http://api.ning.com/files/r2ZkrVA0ja7Q58CaaPJTlzaXpsSkOYEM-ytWWDliu3CtRW2V3FW0G6VUsi9YM-BvaDW4BUlaeIsEWPjkx9*p3BfaeRiDrl-a/stsfc2324AmbassadorM.jpg
WTF are you talking about, you can clear see the nacelles on the connie and the ambassdor.
Why can't you link images to EAS?
Yes, but they are partially obstructed, just like on the Sovereign.
My point is that I don't see any reason to raise them right now.
Could you please show an image that shows what you mean exactly?
Because the webmaster has blocked hotlinking.
Okay. well here is another image i posted earlier but it is not from EAS.
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/gs2/enterprise-ncc-1701-e-sheet-1.jpg
http://johneaves.wordpress.com/2010/12/10/the-evolutions-of-the-uss-midway-cv-41-and-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-e/
LMAO its not complicated, this what happens in really life when new tech etc comes out and you add those updates to an exsisting ships, you are one of many players who have posted that image here including me and we all love to have that in the game, yes in nemesis the E we see is actually a half done refit, they were going to finish her off at the end of nemesis but due to budget cuts it was taken out
Thanks, but unfortunately I'm still not sure what your problem is.
Are the nacelles on the version in game not high enough compared to the image?
Yep, amoung other inaccurate things about the sovy i can point out. yes the nacelles are too low. Same for the excelsior i think. I'm not saying that the ships in game are really bad but at least the basic shape should match as close as possible to their counterparts in the series and movies.
Welcome, Ian!
Hi Ian!
The 'deflector dish' on the front of the ship is supposed to be pretty much a giant square
like this:
http://www.intrepid-society.com/images/galor-model.jpg
however, this is what the in game model looks like:
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/8...2031117092.jpg
One thing I did notice recently about the Galaxy-class was how the nacelles attach to the pylons. The Nebula-class has the correct geometry on both pylon and nacelle, but it seems the Galaxy wasn't updated to match.
I have brought this up before, however, please allow me to explain my position. I have been modeling Star Trek subjects for twenty years. I know the silhouettes and shapes and small intricacies of every major character ship from TOS-VOY, and Enterprise, even the new Star Trek 2009 movie. The models used onscreen were auctioned off several years ago, and are in private hands now, Paramount/CBS does not have wide access to them anymore. However, there is a plethora of photographs and Okuda-grams and paintings of these ships used onscreen which are widely available on the net. I'll go in a somewhat chronological order. I will be using the very reputable ex-astris-scientia website for onscreen referencing.
TOS Enterprise- http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ar.../tos_ships.htm ; the link shows examples of the Constitution-class as seen on television, depicted in TOS and remastered TOS. Aside from the saucer not having the "rust ring" on top of the saucer. The nacelles spin is not correct, the should be spinning inward to one another, right now they both spin the same direction.
Klingon D-7/ K'Tinga- http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/d7ktinga1.htm ; The errors in the in game models are very numerous, textures of the hull in both cases, The inward angle of the nacelles on both in game ships are not correct. Behind the "head" on top of the front "bulb" the aft section is not correct. The red glow from the top of the engineering hull of the K'Tinga is not depicted in game, however clearly seen in the opening scene of Star Trek TMP.
Refit Constitution/ Movie Enterprise- http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/sc...stitution1.htm ; scroll down to see the Movie Enterprise. Again texture of the hull is not properly depicted in game, This is whats called the AZTEC PATTERN, and it has plagued the game from launch. In game its very "simplistic" the nacelles only glow on the inboard part of them. The main deflector, area around it doesnt depict the RCS thrusters. The bottom of secondary hull doesnt have the warp core ejection panels, this is also true for the TOS Enterprise. The aft part of the nacelles, the 'FINS" they aren't supposed to wrap around, they are only out board.
The in game graphics for ships are very simplistic, They are not smooth and do not depict on screen accuracy, I will continue into TNG era ships, and the improper scaling.
Galaxy-class/Enterprise D- http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/galaxy1.htm ; I remember at launch, the Galaxy-class was very incorrect. The area just below the bridge was too high, this error can still be seen on the Nebula-class model in game currently. Again, texture is the major issue with the in game model of the Galaxy, the main impulse engine and the two auxiliary shuttlebay doors are incorrect, there were two filming models used on TNG, the original designed by Andy Probert, at 6 feet in length, and a four foot used after the third season. There are windows just forward of the captains yacht that are not depicted in game, and of course, the windows for Ten Forward are not even there. they're all blank in that location in game. The nacelles in game are not even close to on screen at all, especially where they connect to the warp pylons, again its very simplistic. And the RCS thrusters are not depicted at all on the aft part of the nacelles.
D'deridex Warbird- http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/romulans1.htm ; We dont get to fly these, however, the in game depictions are not correct. The size is the most damning thing of the in game version, its supposed to be near twice the length of the Galaxy-class. And the overall detail in game is very very simplistic. Also, we don't even see Scouts or Science vessels in game. The Valdore we do see, and it again is simplistic in overall appearance.
Vor' Cha, Neg' Var- http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/sc...haneghvar1.htm ; The scale of the Vor' Cha makes it roughly the size of the Excelsior class. In game its the same size as a Galaxy-class. However the texture of the ship is correct, and I can't really find other flaws with it in game. The Neg' Var is also, almost on screen accurate, and I can't find too much wrong with it.
Sry if any of these were brought up before, I just didnt realize there were discussions of this already going, and I dont want to read 100 pages.
Here's a Nebula-class docked at lower pylon 3, http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/7x04/takemeout_000.jpg
My suggestion, if a revamp of the exterior were done, would have spawning points be around the station, like this. http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/7x22/intothewind_080.jpg ; http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/7x22/intothewind_373.jpg ; http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/6x07/youarecordially000.jpg .
K-7; the size of this, according to the chart link above is also off. http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x06/trialstribbleations247.jpg ; from that angle we have 3 points of reference, the in game scale, according to the episode "Trials and Tribbleations" corroborates the scaling issue, Overall however the 'skin' of K-7 appears to be screen accurate aside from the red, green, blue tops of the three 'cones' on all sides of the station.
ESD- Perfect, Cryptic, in my opinion nailed it, SPOT ON! The scale could go up alot but it still seems appropriate. I only wish we could actually fly in...