A logical point of view is rarely understood for what it is. People get used to thinking in extremes and often become incapable of seeing any kind of middle ground.
I would also like to add to that sig about D&D, that players don't eventually get every feat in the game. That would be....OMG I can't even imagine.....
I would also like to add to that sig about D&D, that players don't eventually get every feat in the game. That would be....OMG I can't even imagine.....
I was speaking to tailoring the exp curve not being able to get everything in the end lol
Noone has been saying a Tactical should be able to train Science skills or Engineering skills but whatever.
.
This is that unTruthful, "reverse engineering" logic you guys use.
Kindof like saying [my interpretation of what you guys say]:
"So what if there's now no choice in the skill-tree and we all have all the same skills... you still have OTHER (limited) choices (weapons, consoles), and that is what makes us different!"
(that is, ignoring that you're completely eliminating an entire portion of choice and individuality, then pointing to what's left, as "evidence" for eliminating an entire segment of choice and character progression in the first place!)
I DO like the fix they did on Tribble though... the lower skills influence the higher ones now
i like that too.
if the skills get an adjustment, the cap is fine. removal of the cap = removal of any challenge associated with your skill set.
if you cannot work out a template or where to spend your points and make it viable, respec or read some guides. the skill cap is in place for a reason and the devs saw that so added it in. too many people whinging for challenge but wanting the skill cap removed
Someone cannot pick A-P from the start and use them because:
A) Its an Admiral skill The actual equipment dosent become equipment till that level
This applies to ALL equipment to the point that the lowest weapon systems are available from start to finish and are completely equal with their counterparts. Thus a person that picks phasers can happily run through the game non-plaused while Mr. A-P spends 90% of the game using other weapon systems until they FINALLY get to the A-P.
Then they pay a hefty sum of skillpoints to make that weapon system equal to someone who skilled phasers 20 levels ago. All in the name of getting a 2.5% at shield penetration or -25 to system power.
Paying 4500 points for a weapon system while someone else can pay 2700 AND spend the rest on something else is not creating specialisation unless there is actually something SPECIAL about that 4500 skill that makes it WORTH that cost.
2.5% chance at a special effect = specialisation ?
This is that unTruthful, "reverse engineering" logic you guys use.
Kindof like saying [my interpretation of what you guys say]: (that is, ignoring that you're completely eliminating an entire portion of choice and individuality, then pointing to what's left, as "evidence" for eliminating an entire segment of choice and character progression in the first place!)
Ugh.
Intellectually dishonest.
Spock would not approve.
Ok, you support the choice between someone spending 4500 points for no appreciable benefit compared to someoen spending 2700 and being just as good quicker and having MORE overall capability.
Woe is me for thinking it might be BALANCED if it was possible for players to CHOOSE their equipment freely without being restricted by a capped system that is so tight higher tier skills do not scale appropriately to the cost to enhance the equipment they affect.
sorry to see you go, people leave left and right over the cap
I don't know of a single person who has left due to the skill cap. Actually, in my 67 member (and growing) fleet, I only know of two people who have left the game. One left because he moved stations (active military) and the other due to RL job issues.
You apparently hate the system so much, and yet you are still here. Your whole argument over a skill cap is just wrong headed. NO ONE WANTS YOUR IDEA OF MAXED OUT SKILLS FOR EVERY SKILL, except for you.
You can keep on ignoring the facts, Cryptic will not ever get rid of their skill cap, and for one good reason....its good for the game!
All I want is enough skill points to have a decent character that can fight well in space and the ground. As it is right now all skill points are in the space trees.
I don't know of a single person who has left due to the skill cap. Actually, in my 67 member (and growing) fleet, I only know of two people who have left the game. One left because he moved stations (active military) and the other due to RL job issues.
You apparently hate the system so much, and yet you are still here. Your whole argument over a skill cap is just wrong headed. NO ONE WANTS YOUR IDEA OF MAXED OUT SKILLS FOR EVERY SKILL, except for you.
You can keep on ignoring the facts, Cryptic will not ever get rid of their skill cap, and for one good reason....its good for the game!
Firstly.....there is no need to respond in this manner. It is rude and totally uncalled for and is the BANE of the forums at this present time.
Secondly....I would ask you to look at the Skill Cap threadnaughts so that you could correct your perception that the idea is to max out ALL the skills......max skills yes max ALL skills....kinda stupid really. It would be just the same as hitting the cap right now. Dead. The point of removing the cap is to provide a chance to constantly inprove and tweak your skills. If there aren't enough skills right now....then reduce the SP awarded once at max rank and it solves that issue.
The point with doing that is to open up the game for the Max rank players that have nothing to do but daily episodes and 1 STF (atm) secondarily it will free up the devs from having to 'fix' the skill tree so they can get on with adding the desperately needed content that this game is lacking rin right now.
Thirdly, that is awesome that you know no one that has left because of the skill cap. There have been. Quite a number in fact. You just had to have read the I quit threads before they were outlawed. (Disclaimer - not all the I quit threads were players quitting because fo the skill cap)
So to sum up.
Try not to be rude as the forums don't need any more and try not to make any assumptions when making an argument as they only provide ammunition for those debating against you.
Just my opinion and I hope you don't take offence as no offence was intended.
Ok, you support the choice between someone spending 4500 points for no appreciable benefit compared to someoen spending 2700 and being just as good quicker and having MORE overall capability.
Woe is me for thinking it might be BALANCED if it was possible for players to CHOOSE their equipment freely without being restricted by a capped system that is so tight higher tier skills do not scale appropriately to the cost to enhance the equipment they affect.
IDK know about points, numbers, or calculators. IDK, nor do I care, about any of that. Nor does it affect a single moment of my gameplay. Enemies fall before me regardless. Then again, I planned on going pure Fed from the get-go.
BTW, if I had my way, the skill-TREE would be altered, though we'd have so much more (faction-specific) weaponry in-game. (it would ALL be canon, too).
But the overall principle remains... You must MAKE CHOICES, which will have CONSEQUENCES, and you cannot be good at everything.
Removing the skill cap to most of the people I've chatted with has nothing to do about being uber, its about progress. To me an MMORPG, needs the RPG, and in 95% of the best board/PC/console RPG games I've ever played they give you a method to continuously improve or fine tune your character.
IMHO the skill tree should have been made so that all skills chosen apply all the time, ie. they boost your stats (targeting, maneuverability, etc.), this system would have been capped, so that you can't become all powerful, and there would be differentiation between players. A second skill system would open up at RA5. This 2nd system would be full of options that overlap, ie. phaser/disruptor/tetryon/etc, that way someone that players 20hrs would gain more options but wouldn't become so much more powerful that the casual players feel left out.
I am hoping that a skill revamp along those lines is introduced.
Firstly.....there is no need to respond in this manner. It is rude and totally uncalled for and is the BANE of the forums at this present time.
First, I don't feel it was rude at all. The poster I directed my response to has been spamming this issue in threads that have had nothing to do with Skill Cap. Then he ignores the most reasonable pointing out of the probelsm with what he is asking for. You seem to be a little more level headed, so I will try with you.
If there was no skill cap, we would be able to skill up all of the skills for an offcier type to level 9. Every single skill would eventually be level 9. Eventually every Tactical Officer would have the same skills. No focus, no individuality, no hard choices to be made along the way, no character (role + personality).
With out a skill point cap, I would be able to fly every variation of tier 5 Escorts, Cruisers and Science ships. I would have complete profficiency in every weapon type, both space and ground. Add to this the fact that by the time you reach RA 5, your Bridge Officers will be maxed out in all of their skills as well.
So at some point, there will truly be nothing left to do. No need to respec, because you would have everything. No need to use an addtional character slot, your first toon will be the master of all skills, ships and weapons.
The roleplaying / community aspect for the game....yes the MMO part of the game will lose also. When my fleet commander calls for a Ground Based Fleet Action, and he wants members of the 7th MD. He wants us because he knows that we have devoted between 40 - 50 percent of our skill points to Ground combat. When he calls for a Space Based Fleet Action, he wants Escort, Cruiser and Science ships. He expects that the Escort pilots have maxed out their DPS dealing skills. Cruisers are tanked and ready to draw the fire. Science ships are there to buff / debuff. Our Task Forces are built on the combined arms model. Everyone has a role, and we are expected to be focused on it and eventually experts in that role.
Having no skill cap, takes all of that away. Explain to me how it would not? That is the question that the original poster dodges.
There is barely enough SP's to go around, especially when the game has ground and space combat and you must chose one over the other. You can't even max out two of the admiral lvl skills and here's the best part each tier ship skill will now add 25% to the next ship in the above tier. Too bad, you don't have the SP's to spare. In other words, feel free to cap the SP's but Cryptic really, really needs to increase the SO called cap.
Personally I'm not bothered by the cap so much as I am about the really bad skill tree. I mean look at the choice of beam weapons, the damage (dps) is all the same and the first tier of them arguably have the best effect...yet the others cost that much more why?
You can tell pretty early on if you look at the tree it wasn't thought out with the cap in mind.
First, I don't feel it was rude at all. The poster I directed my response to has been spamming this issue in threads that have had nothing to do with Skill Cap. Then he ignores the most reasonable pointing out of the probelsm with what he is asking for. You seem to be a little more level headed, so I will try with you.
Thank you for the compliment I would suggest though that typing in caps is to many people rude and that was partly what I based my comment on
If there was no skill cap, we would be able to skill up all of the skills for an offcier type to level 9. Every single skill would eventually be level 9. Eventually every Tactical Officer would have the same skills. No focus, no individuality, no hard choices to be made along the way, no character (role + personality).
Sure if the levelling was left at it is and with no new skills being added this would be a problem. My solution is to restrict the amount of SP earned once people hit cap so you are filling out skills at a much slower rate. Plus of course adding new skills with every big patch. This would prevent the likelyhood of anyone ever filling out all the skills.
With out a skill point cap, I would be able to fly every variation of tier 5 Escorts, Cruisers and Science ships. I would have complete profficiency in every weapon type, both space and ground. Add to this the fact that by the time you reach RA 5, your Bridge Officers will be maxed out in all of their skills as well.
See above.
So at some point, there will truly be nothing left to do. No need to respec, because you would have everything. No need to use an addtional character slot, your first toon will be the master of all skills, ships and weapons.
Eeek see above
The roleplaying / community aspect for the game....yes the MMO part of the game will lose also. When my fleet commander calls for a Ground Based Fleet Action, and he wants members of the 7th MD. He wants us because he knows that we have devoted between 40 - 50 percent of our skill points to Ground combat. When he calls for a Space Based Fleet Action, he wants Escort, Cruiser and Science ships. He expects that the Escort pilots have maxed out their DPS dealing skills. Cruisers are tanked and ready to draw the fire. Science ships are there to buff / debuff. Our Task Forces are built on the combined arms model. Everyone has a role, and we are expected to be focused on it and eventually experts in that role.
If my idea was implemented then more ground skills could be trained.....I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but I have found in order to be effective in my Space combat I have NO Ground combat skills at all and this REALLY bugs me.
Having no skill cap, takes all of that away. Explain to me how it would not? That is the question that the original poster dodges.
My adamant stance on this matter is not based on my dislike of skill caps......it is simply that this skill system despite what people may say has been designed to be a capless system.....as evident by the balance issues.
My proposition is why take valuable dev time up trying to fix the situation when they could simply implement something similar to my idea. Then they would be free to spend some MUCH needed time and devotion on cranking up the genesis engine and giving us the content that quite frankly is plaguing this game at this time.
The company could still benefit from respecs as with the reduced level of SP gained once at max rank you can still reset your skills if you wanted to try a different setup instead.
It would be a win win all round. Cryptic get's their extra income. We get more skills every major patch and we can continue to improve our chars albeit at a greatly reduced rate.
This is my stance. I understand maxing out would be a problem and I hope this has explained it better.
Consider it a compromise where we could all be happy (he says lol)
Ok, seems most of the people that are FOR the skillcap are touting "Diversity" and "Hard Choices" etc...
Ok, how about this to explain the diversity.
As it stands now, there are a total of 9 different types of players at skillcap;
Skillcapped engineer flying an Escort
Skillcapped engineer flying a cruiser
Skillcapped engineer flying a science ship
Skillcapped Tactical flying an escort
Skillcapped Tactical flying a cruiser
Skillcapped Tactical flying a science ship
Skillcapped Science flying an Escort
Skillcapped Science flying a Cruiser
Skillcapped Science flying a Science Ship
Add in respecs and now you will have exactly 9 different types of players, all using the same weapons, skills, etc... Sure, there might be a few rebels, but most will follow the flavor of the month.
Remove the cap and you will have;
Engineer flying whatever he wants with an insane number of options in how he wants to outfit ship, officers, and equipment.
Tactical flying whatever he wants with an insane number of options in how he wants to outfit ship, officers, and equipment.
Science flying whatever he wants with an insane number of options in how he wants to outfit ship, officers, and equipment.
Now, even though the second list looks smaller, the diversity inherent will portray much more than the 9 in a capped system. The second list with its many more options of players and playstyles will also take a LOT longer to build, involve a lot of choices, lend itself to experimentation for new and exotic sets of skills/abilities/loadouts, and give us a moderate endgame as the game sits now! Add in content additions, skill additions, rank increases etc... and the diversity gets more, not less.
Those that think the skillcap will lead to different builds and different playstyles just have to look at their RPG of choice... I can't understand how they think that a cap that "forces hard choices" leaves ANY choice at all. This kind of attitude really confuses me. Skillcap and respecs = everyone will end up being almost exactly the same, there are no choices, just the illusion of choices. To compete, everyone will have to invest their limited skill points in the same skill trees.
The skillcap is what will end up making everyone play the same, not different.
P.S. Actually, I have been suspecting for a time now that those that want the skillcap are really afraid that they won't be able to know what they are up against when they see a class/ship combination...
Now for those that think we are just trying to be "UBER" with a capless system...
I will not get uber powered if I max all the skills in the skilltree, the ONLY thing that changes are the options I will have in outfitting my ships. Say I max out both Tetryon AND polaron or other weapon types... I do not get stronger because I did this, I could always stay with the weapon type I chose under the current system and do the exact same damage. All being able to skill the others would do is give me options in ship loadout...
This is not a traditional RPG where your stats and skills keep getting stronger as you get exp, and having a LEVEL cap is fine, just let me keep earning EXP so I can still invest in skills. One of my favorite games in the MMO RPG Genre was Asheron's Call. Initially the LEVEL cap was 128 and after you reached this you could still get exp to invest in skills. Even so, almost every 128 was about the same in "devastating ability" but when they raised the LEVEL cap to the high 200's some people were already 200+ due to their experience, and THEN they were a lot more powerful etc...
Hardcore players will have OPTIONS that casual players will not have but they will not be a lot stronger. If a casual player realizes this, they can specialize in a type of weapon or skill for both space and ground and they will be just as strong as long as they are using their weapon of choice or skillset of choice...
This alone will alleviate most of the RA5 woes until new content is released. In no way would maxing out your skilltree make new content "trivial" or make you able to "blow through it" any faster than a casual RA5...
Ok, seems most of the people that are FOR the skillcap are touting "Diversity" and "Hard Choices" etc...
Ok, how about this to explain the diversity.
As it stands now, there are a total of 9 different types of players at skillcap;
Skillcapped engineer flying an Escort
Skillcapped engineer flying a cruiser
Skillcapped engineer flying a science ship
Skillcapped Tactical flying an escort
Skillcapped Tactical flying a cruiser
Skillcapped Tactical flying a science ship
Skillcapped Science flying an Escort
Skillcapped Science flying a Cruiser
Skillcapped Science flying a Science Ship
With all due respect, this part is incorrect. There are the two variations of each Tier 5 ship. Then you have the variable of training certain weapon types and not others. Then you have the other choices, what defense types will I use? What skills do I need to put points in, that mirrior my Bridge Officers skills? Then you have the ground combat variables. Do I need close combat? I don't need Assault, since I use Split Beam rifles, exclusively.......there are hundereds of variables.
A removal of the skill cap will just allow you to max out all of these skills, and it will make us less diverse.
Now, Bruebleo brings up a good point.
If they introduce new skills (which they say they are in next week's expansion), then an increase in the skill cap will be needed to allow for that. I have no problem with that. If they introduce a new Admiral level skill, they should add 4500 skill points to our cap. That would be enough points to bring that skill to 9, if you chose to do that. Or, you could choose to use those points elsewhere.
With all due respect, this part is incorrect. There are the two variations of each Tier 5 ship. Then you have the variable of training certain weapon types and not others. Then you have the other choices, what defense types will I use? What skills do I need to put points in, that mirrior my Bridge Officers skills? Then you have the ground combat variables. Do I need close combat? I don't need Assault, since I use Split Beam rifles, exclusively.......there are hundereds of variables.
A removal of the skill cap will just allow you to max out all of these skills, and it will make us less diverse.
Now, Bruebleo brings up a good point.
If they introduce new skills (which they say they are in next week's expansion), then an increase in the skill cap will be needed to allow for that. I have no problem with that. If they introduce a new Admiral level skill, they should add 4500 skill points to our cap. That would be enough points to bring that skill to 9, if you chose to do that. Or, you could choose to use those points elsewhere.
What I don't want to see is 9's in everything.
Hmmm I did cover that......remove the cap and significantly lower the SP reward to a trickle so those that want to can work at filling out some of those empty skills thus giving the end gamers something else to do.
Actually I'll try and simplify it.
From new char till max rank you level as normal. - MANY skills still empty.
Hit max rank still gain a trickle of SP - Many skills that are still empty take an AGE to fill.
New expansion gives more skills.
Respecs still viable as an extra income for Cryptic AND Still remain very useful for players.
All the above features mean - We get more replay for our end game chars and Devs get more time to devote to episodic content instead of having to 'fix' the current tree (which we all agree would be a good thing)
Considering the current state of the game I think that this would be an awesome compromise as no one would be able to max out their skills as long as every major patch they chuck some more new skills in.
The skillcap is what will end up making everyone play the same, not different.
P.S. Actually, I have been suspecting for a time now that those that want the skillcap are really afraid that they won't be able to know what they are up against when they see a class/ship combination...
The reverse of both of these is true.
Consider PVP for a moment. With a skill cap, and less skilled toon may have a chance to beat a much more skilled toon, if the much more skilled toon has more points devoted to the opposite type of combat (ground vs. space). However, without a skill cap, and Admiral will always beat a Captain because an Admiral could have 9's in everything and a Captain won't.
Comments
A logical point of view is rarely understood for what it is. People get used to thinking in extremes and often become incapable of seeing any kind of middle ground.
I do agree that a skill cap is a good thing, but I think they need to rethink it entirely.
Noone said anything about removing classes A.K.A Science, Engineering tactical.
No cap = classless system - wtf ?
Noone has been saying a Tactical should be able to train Science skills or Engineering skills but whatever.
No cap = a science officer can use all the kits equally and be a healer or a debuffer to suit demand
With cap = Same officer has to choose one to be good at,
Current system With cap = Same officer has to choose one AND work around the higher tier skills which give reduced returns for the skill investment.
Thus going with sensor skills is far more efficient than going with Photonic theory which would require Admiral points to specialise in.
I was speaking to tailoring the exp curve not being able to get everything in the end lol
Structure it correctly too. I see it as it is, a hierarchical tree. But its not displayed like that, so its confusing.
Q: " Should skills ultimately differentiate characters into specific specialties?"
A:
1) Y
2) N
Fixed.
Just like I wouldn't mind if the skill-TREE was fixed.
:cool:
Thats the problem with forcing players to use points to rank up, as I stated many times I am against. That isn't the problem with Skill Cap.
This is that unTruthful, "reverse engineering" logic you guys use.
Kindof like saying [my interpretation of what you guys say]: (that is, ignoring that you're completely eliminating an entire portion of choice and individuality, then pointing to what's left, as "evidence" for eliminating an entire segment of choice and character progression in the first place!)
Ugh.
Intellectually dishonest.
Spock would not approve.
i like that too.
if the skills get an adjustment, the cap is fine. removal of the cap = removal of any challenge associated with your skill set.
if you cannot work out a template or where to spend your points and make it viable, respec or read some guides. the skill cap is in place for a reason and the devs saw that so added it in. too many people whinging for challenge but wanting the skill cap removed
To whom are you referring? Which post? Which poster?
A) Its an Admiral skill
This applies to ALL equipment to the point that the lowest weapon systems are available from start to finish and are completely equal with their counterparts. Thus a person that picks phasers can happily run through the game non-plaused while Mr. A-P spends 90% of the game using other weapon systems until they FINALLY get to the A-P.
Then they pay a hefty sum of skillpoints to make that weapon system equal to someone who skilled phasers 20 levels ago. All in the name of getting a 2.5% at shield penetration or -25 to system power.
Paying 4500 points for a weapon system while someone else can pay 2700 AND spend the rest on something else is not creating specialisation unless there is actually something SPECIAL about that 4500 skill that makes it WORTH that cost.
2.5% chance at a special effect = specialisation ?
Ok, you support the choice between someone spending 4500 points for no appreciable benefit compared to someoen spending 2700 and being just as good quicker and having MORE overall capability.
Woe is me for thinking it might be BALANCED if it was possible for players to CHOOSE their equipment freely without being restricted by a capped system that is so tight higher tier skills do not scale appropriately to the cost to enhance the equipment they affect.
My guess was it was a generality
as far as that they DID say they were gonna do that eventually, ill go find the link
dammit I cant find it >.< stupid fail search program
I don't know of a single person who has left due to the skill cap. Actually, in my 67 member (and growing) fleet, I only know of two people who have left the game. One left because he moved stations (active military) and the other due to RL job issues.
You apparently hate the system so much, and yet you are still here. Your whole argument over a skill cap is just wrong headed. NO ONE WANTS YOUR IDEA OF MAXED OUT SKILLS FOR EVERY SKILL, except for you.
You can keep on ignoring the facts, Cryptic will not ever get rid of their skill cap, and for one good reason....its good for the game!
Firstly.....there is no need to respond in this manner. It is rude and totally uncalled for and is the BANE of the forums at this present time.
Secondly....I would ask you to look at the Skill Cap threadnaughts so that you could correct your perception that the idea is to max out ALL the skills......max skills yes max ALL skills....kinda stupid really. It would be just the same as hitting the cap right now. Dead. The point of removing the cap is to provide a chance to constantly inprove and tweak your skills. If there aren't enough skills right now....then reduce the SP awarded once at max rank and it solves that issue.
The point with doing that is to open up the game for the Max rank players that have nothing to do but daily episodes and 1 STF (atm) secondarily it will free up the devs from having to 'fix' the skill tree so they can get on with adding the desperately needed content that this game is lacking rin right now.
Thirdly, that is awesome that you know no one that has left because of the skill cap. There have been. Quite a number in fact. You just had to have read the I quit threads before they were outlawed. (Disclaimer - not all the I quit threads were players quitting because fo the skill cap)
So to sum up.
Try not to be rude as the forums don't need any more and try not to make any assumptions when making an argument as they only provide ammunition for those debating against you.
Just my opinion and I hope you don't take offence as no offence was intended.
IDK know about points, numbers, or calculators. IDK, nor do I care, about any of that. Nor does it affect a single moment of my gameplay. Enemies fall before me regardless. Then again, I planned on going pure Fed from the get-go.
BTW, if I had my way, the skill-TREE would be altered, though we'd have so much more (faction-specific) weaponry in-game. (it would ALL be canon, too).
But the overall principle remains... You must MAKE CHOICES, which will have CONSEQUENCES, and you cannot be good at everything.
IMHO the skill tree should have been made so that all skills chosen apply all the time, ie. they boost your stats (targeting, maneuverability, etc.), this system would have been capped, so that you can't become all powerful, and there would be differentiation between players. A second skill system would open up at RA5. This 2nd system would be full of options that overlap, ie. phaser/disruptor/tetryon/etc, that way someone that players 20hrs would gain more options but wouldn't become so much more powerful that the casual players feel left out.
I am hoping that a skill revamp along those lines is introduced.
Cheers
First, I don't feel it was rude at all. The poster I directed my response to has been spamming this issue in threads that have had nothing to do with Skill Cap. Then he ignores the most reasonable pointing out of the probelsm with what he is asking for. You seem to be a little more level headed, so I will try with you.
If there was no skill cap, we would be able to skill up all of the skills for an offcier type to level 9. Every single skill would eventually be level 9. Eventually every Tactical Officer would have the same skills. No focus, no individuality, no hard choices to be made along the way, no character (role + personality).
With out a skill point cap, I would be able to fly every variation of tier 5 Escorts, Cruisers and Science ships. I would have complete profficiency in every weapon type, both space and ground. Add to this the fact that by the time you reach RA 5, your Bridge Officers will be maxed out in all of their skills as well.
So at some point, there will truly be nothing left to do. No need to respec, because you would have everything. No need to use an addtional character slot, your first toon will be the master of all skills, ships and weapons.
The roleplaying / community aspect for the game....yes the MMO part of the game will lose also. When my fleet commander calls for a Ground Based Fleet Action, and he wants members of the 7th MD. He wants us because he knows that we have devoted between 40 - 50 percent of our skill points to Ground combat. When he calls for a Space Based Fleet Action, he wants Escort, Cruiser and Science ships. He expects that the Escort pilots have maxed out their DPS dealing skills. Cruisers are tanked and ready to draw the fire. Science ships are there to buff / debuff. Our Task Forces are built on the combined arms model. Everyone has a role, and we are expected to be focused on it and eventually experts in that role.
Having no skill cap, takes all of that away. Explain to me how it would not? That is the question that the original poster dodges.
You can tell pretty early on if you look at the tree it wasn't thought out with the cap in mind.
My adamant stance on this matter is not based on my dislike of skill caps......it is simply that this skill system despite what people may say has been designed to be a capless system.....as evident by the balance issues.
My proposition is why take valuable dev time up trying to fix the situation when they could simply implement something similar to my idea. Then they would be free to spend some MUCH needed time and devotion on cranking up the genesis engine and giving us the content that quite frankly is plaguing this game at this time.
The company could still benefit from respecs as with the reduced level of SP gained once at max rank you can still reset your skills if you wanted to try a different setup instead.
It would be a win win all round. Cryptic get's their extra income. We get more skills every major patch and we can continue to improve our chars albeit at a greatly reduced rate.
This is my stance. I understand maxing out would be a problem and I hope this has explained it better.
Consider it a compromise where we could all be happy (he says lol)
Ok, how about this to explain the diversity.
As it stands now, there are a total of 9 different types of players at skillcap;
Skillcapped engineer flying an Escort
Skillcapped engineer flying a cruiser
Skillcapped engineer flying a science ship
Skillcapped Tactical flying an escort
Skillcapped Tactical flying a cruiser
Skillcapped Tactical flying a science ship
Skillcapped Science flying an Escort
Skillcapped Science flying a Cruiser
Skillcapped Science flying a Science Ship
Add in respecs and now you will have exactly 9 different types of players, all using the same weapons, skills, etc... Sure, there might be a few rebels, but most will follow the flavor of the month.
Remove the cap and you will have;
Engineer flying whatever he wants with an insane number of options in how he wants to outfit ship, officers, and equipment.
Tactical flying whatever he wants with an insane number of options in how he wants to outfit ship, officers, and equipment.
Science flying whatever he wants with an insane number of options in how he wants to outfit ship, officers, and equipment.
Now, even though the second list looks smaller, the diversity inherent will portray much more than the 9 in a capped system. The second list with its many more options of players and playstyles will also take a LOT longer to build, involve a lot of choices, lend itself to experimentation for new and exotic sets of skills/abilities/loadouts, and give us a moderate endgame as the game sits now! Add in content additions, skill additions, rank increases etc... and the diversity gets more, not less.
Those that think the skillcap will lead to different builds and different playstyles just have to look at their RPG of choice... I can't understand how they think that a cap that "forces hard choices" leaves ANY choice at all. This kind of attitude really confuses me. Skillcap and respecs = everyone will end up being almost exactly the same, there are no choices, just the illusion of choices. To compete, everyone will have to invest their limited skill points in the same skill trees.
The skillcap is what will end up making everyone play the same, not different.
P.S. Actually, I have been suspecting for a time now that those that want the skillcap are really afraid that they won't be able to know what they are up against when they see a class/ship combination...
I will not get uber powered if I max all the skills in the skilltree, the ONLY thing that changes are the options I will have in outfitting my ships. Say I max out both Tetryon AND polaron or other weapon types... I do not get stronger because I did this, I could always stay with the weapon type I chose under the current system and do the exact same damage. All being able to skill the others would do is give me options in ship loadout...
This is not a traditional RPG where your stats and skills keep getting stronger as you get exp, and having a LEVEL cap is fine, just let me keep earning EXP so I can still invest in skills. One of my favorite games in the MMO RPG Genre was Asheron's Call. Initially the LEVEL cap was 128 and after you reached this you could still get exp to invest in skills. Even so, almost every 128 was about the same in "devastating ability" but when they raised the LEVEL cap to the high 200's some people were already 200+ due to their experience, and THEN they were a lot more powerful etc...
Hardcore players will have OPTIONS that casual players will not have but they will not be a lot stronger. If a casual player realizes this, they can specialize in a type of weapon or skill for both space and ground and they will be just as strong as long as they are using their weapon of choice or skillset of choice...
This alone will alleviate most of the RA5 woes until new content is released. In no way would maxing out your skilltree make new content "trivial" or make you able to "blow through it" any faster than a casual RA5...
With all due respect, this part is incorrect. There are the two variations of each Tier 5 ship. Then you have the variable of training certain weapon types and not others. Then you have the other choices, what defense types will I use? What skills do I need to put points in, that mirrior my Bridge Officers skills? Then you have the ground combat variables. Do I need close combat? I don't need Assault, since I use Split Beam rifles, exclusively.......there are hundereds of variables.
A removal of the skill cap will just allow you to max out all of these skills, and it will make us less diverse.
Now, Bruebleo brings up a good point.
If they introduce new skills (which they say they are in next week's expansion), then an increase in the skill cap will be needed to allow for that. I have no problem with that. If they introduce a new Admiral level skill, they should add 4500 skill points to our cap. That would be enough points to bring that skill to 9, if you chose to do that. Or, you could choose to use those points elsewhere.
What I don't want to see is 9's in everything.
I disagree with this .
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your just disagreeing with them because you want them to all get carpel tunnel syndrome form posting wall-o-texts.
Hmmm I did cover that......remove the cap and significantly lower the SP reward to a trickle so those that want to can work at filling out some of those empty skills thus giving the end gamers something else to do.
Actually I'll try and simplify it.
All the above features mean - We get more replay for our end game chars and Devs get more time to devote to episodic content instead of having to 'fix' the current tree (which we all agree would be a good thing)
Considering the current state of the game I think that this would be an awesome compromise as no one would be able to max out their skills as long as every major patch they chuck some more new skills in.
Can we not at least compromise with this?
The reverse of both of these is true.
Consider PVP for a moment. With a skill cap, and less skilled toon may have a chance to beat a much more skilled toon, if the much more skilled toon has more points devoted to the opposite type of combat (ground vs. space). However, without a skill cap, and Admiral will always beat a Captain because an Admiral could have 9's in everything and a Captain won't.