I cant possibly imagine why people who are demanding a capless system is still around. It was announced during beta, and they have stated they arent going to give in on the issue. A.K.A. You lost the war... Take your HateRifiles and go home.
I cant possibly imagine why people who are demanding a capless system is still around. It was announced during beta, and they have stated they arent going to give in on the issue. A.K.A. You lost the war... Take your HateRifiles and go home.
I was just in a thread with the general of that side near as I can figure an it just looks like theyre trying to do as much damage as they can on the way out by spreading lies, hate, slander and defimation around.
Those of us that played our way through to RA5 in about 200 hours of /played time but didn't start out with a lifetime subscription will probably not be back until you allow us to gain skill points and continue to level up.
I almost played through the Q mission that you get right at the end, but since I wouldn't get any exp for it, I decided to put the account on hold for now. I picked up a 60 day card from amazon.com, so I do plan to return when the game content is released.
Later all
Good luck to the lifetimers.. try to keep this thing on life support until the 45/58/79/257 day patch comes along.
Hate to see you go.. and sad you won't ever be back.
Devs have stated that skill caps will remain.. they will give more skill points when they unlock the last 5 levels, but there will still be a cap..
The reason is to make defigned roles for each class / ship.. this way there is diversity between characters / players thus making content more Team / group friendly by working together. It prevents 1 character from going from an escort to a science ship at RA 5 because you lose out on DPS and ship skill abilities ( - 16.75 command ability) since you aren't trained for a science vessel...
Skill capping is good as it makes characters unique in build and ability.. no skill cap = everyone is the same thing, which is boring, especially in group or teams.
I cant possibly imagine why people who are demanding a capless system is still around. It was announced during beta, and they have stated they arent going to give in on the issue. A.K.A. You lost the war... Take your HateRifiles and go home.
telling someone to leave is not good for the game.Some dissent is better than an empty server.
If there's no skill cap, why respec at all? Why roll another character, just buy all the ships for your one Federation dude since they can do it all? When you collect all of those skills, what's next then? "Moar skills, plz?" "Moar levels?" Not every game needs to reach Level 80-120.
It's got to stop somewhere. You can collect endless BOFF points, but AFAIK they're as useful as Fed Credits right now. (Sarcasm: They're not.) Perhaps a playable first officer could fix that? (Pick a BOFF, give them equiv skills that a player character would get and use them in place of you in away missions.) But as for your character, the base timesink in an MMO: there's got to be a reason to make a character at all. All player concessions stop at that point.
telling someone to leave is not good for the game.Some dissent is better than an empty server.
I didnt tell anyone to leave. Only pointed out that those claiming they are leaving because the game isnt what they wanted are still here a month and a half later and only bashing the game. Not creating constructive posts on how Cryptic might do better with Change A or Change B implemented.
There are people here in the forums that dont fall in the fanboi or hater categories, that actually will criticize Cryptic when they deserve it. And praise things again when its deserved.
This was Cryptic pulling another "Launch day nerf" like they did on CO,.... and basically shooting their own darn foot off for the sake of micro transactions.
You couldn't be more wrong on this.. MT's have nothing to do with skill cap.. respecs in game are either given free or done with Merit Points .. MT option is there for people too lazy to run missions to earn merit points..
Respeccing is essentially free from real world money.
I didnt tell anyone to leave. Only pointed out that those claiming they are leaving because the game isnt what they wanted are still here a month and a half later and only bashing the game. Not creating constructive posts on how Cryptic might do better with Change A or Change B implemented.
There are people here in the forums that dont fall in the fanboi or hater categories, that actually will criticize Cryptic when they deserve it. And praise things again when its deserved.
I didnt tell anyone to leave. Only pointed out that those claiming they are leaving because the game isnt what they wanted are still here a month and a half later and only bashing the game. Not creating constructive posts on how Cryptic might do better with Change A or Change B implemented.
There are people here in the forums that dont fall in the fanboi or hater categories, that actually will criticize Cryptic when they deserve it. And praise things again when its deserved.
Just because you dont find the OP's opinion constructive does not mean that others feel the same. And yes i do agree that some of the threads do not contain soultions but some do and they get flamed just the same.
It is a no win solution for anybody at this point.
telling someone to leave is not good for the game.Some dissent is better than an empty server.
True, but if you say the same thing over and over, well I cant say it directly, but look under the Cryptic Stidios Infractions Policy, way at the bottom, first bullet under Trolling, flaming, spamming.
The skill capless ppl Ive seen actually dont seem to want the capless system as much as they just want to spread the hate though. Id be willing to wager that even IF they gave them the capless system, there would be something next that they would rail against until they got what they wanted. Eventually, this group is running the game more than Cryptic is. How is this a better solution?
True, but if you say the same thing over and over, well I cant say it directly, but look under the Cryptic Stidios Infractions Policy, way at the bottom, first bullet under Trolling, flaming, spamming.
The skill capless ppl Ive seen actually dont seem to want the capless system as much as they just want to spread the hate though. Id be willing to wager that even IF they gave them the capless system, there would be something next that they would rail against until they got what they wanted. Eventually, this group is running the game more than Cryptic is. How is this a better solution?
Dont even think of trying to threaten me with something about infractions. I know exactly what i can and cant post. And you might want to look at the same thing you post time and time again. people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Dont even think of trying to threaten me with something about infractions. I know exactly what i can and cant post. And you might want to look at the same thing you post time and time again. people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Im sorry you took it as a personal threat but I wasnt talking specifically to you
And I DO read those rules, and I DO take points when I deserve them, and I DO attempt to get them uverturned when I feel they are unfair. (Although I do believe this may not BE possible )
People please just read what SesshoSeki has to say on this matter.
He trumps every pro cap argument so well even the devs can't argue with him.
Don't believe me.....go check it out for yourselves.
I did. I was in the last argument where he failed to do exactly that. I like how the devs "cant" argue with him. To this you are correct, as he ignores any point he disagrees with. You CANT argue with someone like that.
People please just read what SesshoSeki has to say on this matter.
He trumps every pro cap argument so well even the devs can't argue with him.
Don't believe me.....go check it out for yourselves.
You misread what the dev stated.
The dev agreed with him that the initial design was for a capless system, however the directors of the game chose to use a capped system instead.. dev stated he didn't have all the details and would look more into it.
Doesn't change the fact that the game developers are going to keep a capped system, so ultimately, no matter what argument for a capless system is used.. the argument is fail from the first letter typed.
Devs have stated a cap system is in game, it will remain, it will expand as additional levels are released, but remain none the less.
so, they guy may have made a couple of good points (which I personally don't agree with).. it still = fail since skill cap will remain.. basically the devs have /facepalm when listening to the people who want a capless system.. People can keep crying about it.. that doesn't mean it will be changed.. all it will do is show the devs who the whiners are and avoid them or put them on /ignore.
Dont even think of trying to threaten me with something about infractions. I know exactly what i can and cant post. And you might want to look at the same thing you post time and time again. people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Seriously Pcg.......this has been going on for ages......it's pure madness. There are people that seem to think that if they don't agree with what someone is saying it is perfectly fine to throw insults.
I think perhaps this makes them feel special or something.....i don't know. But I can only think possibly that a lot of people on these forums have never been taught to hold academic debate. If they had perhaps they would refrain from being rude and would try to construct a better counter instead.
All it means is that holding such discussions is ultimately pointless because one side will get frustrated at being unable to 'win' the debate and so it devolves into petty name caling and mud flinging.
That completely invalidates your previous statement, so, yes. :cool:
Now.
If all Engineering Officers have all their Engineering skills maxed, and all Tactical Officers have all their Tactical Officer skills maxed, and all Science Officers have all their Science Officer skills maxed, each with all other skills also maxed...
Will they all use the same type of ship?
Will they all use the same weapons and consoles on their ships?
Will they all use the same Kits?
Will they all use the same weapons on the ground?
Will they all play the same race with all the same traits?
Will they all use the same Bridge Officers, all of the same race with all the same Space and Ground skills?
If they do not do all these things the same will they still be, as you maintain, 'identical'?
Actually, for the most part I DO think they would be mostly identical. The whole game is essentially based around dps. Threat is dps based, loot is dps based. So yer gonna run the best dps ships available, th best dps weapons, kits, etc. EVENTUALLY, yes, its all gonna end up the same stuff if you can max out everything.
Plus, as Personae said in the other thread,
"You dont think maybe the skill system was capless in the Beta Test phase so we could, maybe test them?"
As for bruce's assertion that their paragon is always right, again, like I said in the other thread, I would hate having a job that would require me to be infallable and omniscient or I get torn apart by the people I work for.
People (humans) make mistakes. Devs / GMs / Mods are human are they not?
Why is that such a big shock for you guys?
Seriously Pcg.......this has been going on for ages......it's pure madness. There are people that seem to think that if they don't agree with what someone is saying it is perfectly fine to throw insults.
I think perhaps this makes them feel special or something.....i don't know. But I can only think possibly that a lot of people on these forums have never been taught to hold academic debate. If they had perhaps they would refrain from being rude and would try to construct a better counter instead.
All it means is that holding such discussions is ultimately pointless because one side will get frustrated at being unable to 'win' the debate and so it devolves into petty name caling and mud flinging.
The funny thing about that is that you dont see the irony
The OP doesnt fit this description? His title seems to speak otherwise. The body of the post seems to as well.
Dude. Sarcasm. I'm kidding.
Anyway, kidding aside, the problem I have with Skill Cap arguments is that outside of capless, any other stance is non-negotiable. Not a raise of the cap, not more levels in endgame to augment further, it has to be gone. Anyone who says otherwise is a jerk for speaking, because our reasoning is perfect.
There's a myth used fallaciously in MMO's: You can never give us something then take it away. We'll hate you for it.
Everyone knows end-game is unfinished: there will be more ranks, whether they will apply to Read Admiral skills or a new tier or not is irrelevant now: If you want to leave until then, I get that. But the skill cap, short of raising, looks like it's not going away. May as well say you quit for all we know.
Seriously Pcg.......this has been going on for ages......it's pure madness. There are people that seem to think that if they don't agree with what someone is saying it is perfectly fine to throw insults.
I think perhaps this makes them feel special or something.....i don't know. But I can only think possibly that a lot of people on these forums have never been taught to hold academic debate. If they had perhaps they would refrain from being rude and would try to construct a better counter instead.
All it means is that holding such discussions is ultimately pointless because one side will get frustrated at being unable to 'win' the debate and so it devolves into petty name caling and mud flinging.
I agree 100%. Both sides do it and scream at each other. While the people who should be stepping up to the plate"Cryptic" and giving real answers do so only when their hand is forced and they feel forced into doing it. I find this a despiciable company and while i enjoy certain aspects of the game i am starting to really despise cryptic managment.
Your sig just points out what is wrong with this company.
Anyway, kidding aside, the problem I have with Skill Cap arguments is that outside of capless, any other stance is non-negotiable. Not a raise of the cap, not more levels in endgame to augment further, it has to be gone. Anyone who says otherwise is a jerk for speaking, because our reasoning is perfect.
There's a myth used fallaciously in MMO's: You can never give us something then take it away. We'll hate you for it.
Everyone knows end-game is unfinished: there will be more ranks, whether they will apply to Read Admiral skills or a new tier or not is irrelevant now: If you want to leave until then, I get that. But the skill cap, short of raising, looks like it's not going away. May as well say you quit for all we know.
Seriously Pcg.......this has been going on for ages......it's pure madness. There are people that seem to think that if they don't agree with what someone is saying it is perfectly fine to throw insults.
I think perhaps this makes them feel special or something.....i don't know. But I can only think possibly that a lot of people on these forums have never been taught to hold academic debate. If they had perhaps they would refrain from being rude and would try to construct a better counter instead.
All it means is that holding such discussions is ultimately pointless because one side will get frustrated at being unable to 'win' the debate and so it devolves into petty name caling and mud flinging.
So, the only people who should speak on the forums are the educated? Anyone can play this game, their $15 a month means as much as mine does. If everything is to be logically reached, this forum will be a dry, elitist, unimaginitive quagmire. It still needs to be fun. Logic has it's role, but it's not an absolute.
Perhaps it wasn't the Dev's decision to make it this way, but a higher up at Cryptic or Atari... could explain why the "I'mma get back to you on 'dat" post in the other thread never happened.
I don't believe I've resorted to namecalling against people who intend to keep playing in any of my replies, I try not to personally, and if you catch me on it, I will apologize. (Except for ragequitters. **** them.)
I guess they will give us RA10 and about 9.000 to 10.000 skillpoints
If the skill system would work as in EVE a cap wouldn't be necessary
Ick... I dont like EVE's system either. You can never catch up to ppl. Guys who were in the game 5 years before you are 5 years FARTHER down the road once you are 5 years in. Assuming of course all active levelling in the timeframe
I'd be out the door so fast it would make your head spin if I thought the cap was a "cash grab". Honestly, do people really believe that and then stay? Why?
I don't want to see identical tacs, engies and scientists running around with the same build and gear. Eventually the "gear to have" will be had by everyone, so we would all just be photocopies. No thanks. It's already bad enough in MMO games with capped systems, so a uncapped system would just be all the worse. Plus I want to have to THINK a bit about my skill choices. Wheres the strategy in maxing everything out? You folks want no builds, just dummy mode?
Besides, the system isn't technically capped, as long as they add grades and ranks.
There's a myth used fallaciously in MMO's: You can never give us something then take it away. We'll hate you for it.
From Head start and Official Start.. the skill cap was in place.. You never had a capless system in the official game.
that is what makes the argument = fail
in Beta.. that is a testing stage.. a capless system in beta is understandable as all skills need to be tested.. but when the server went to Headstart / Official Live.. a skill cap was in game.. so players never officially had a capless system.. it wasn't taken away.. it didn't exist.
Comparing Alpha and Beta to Live is like comparing a Model T to a Ferrari.. There is no comparrison.
Arguing that a Skill cap was placed on the game.. the gae went live with a skill cap.. a skill cap wasn't placed on game after it went live..
Skill cap allows for individuality and a need to rely on other characters / classes / ships in order to complete some goals.. which is how MMOs should work.
From Head start and Official Start.. the skill cap was in place.. You never had a capless system in the official game.
that is what makes the argument = fail
in Beta.. that is a testing stage.. a capless system in beta is understandable as all skills need to be tested.. but when the server went to Headstart / Official Live.. a skill cap was not in game.. so players never officially had a capless system.. it wasn't taken away.. it didn't exist.
Comparing Alpha and Beta to Live is like comparing a Model T to a Ferrari.. There is no comparrison.
Arguing that a Skill cap was placed on the game.. the gae went live with a skill cap.. a skill cap wasn't placed on game after it went live..
Skill cap allows for individuality and a need to rely on other characters / classes / ships in order to complete some goals.. which is how MMOs should work.
LOL they should make em happy an take the skill cap off on Tribble
Comments
I was just in a thread with the general of that side near as I can figure an it just looks like theyre trying to do as much damage as they can on the way out by spreading lies, hate, slander and defimation around.
Hate to see you go.. and sad you won't ever be back.
Devs have stated that skill caps will remain.. they will give more skill points when they unlock the last 5 levels, but there will still be a cap..
The reason is to make defigned roles for each class / ship.. this way there is diversity between characters / players thus making content more Team / group friendly by working together. It prevents 1 character from going from an escort to a science ship at RA 5 because you lose out on DPS and ship skill abilities ( - 16.75 command ability) since you aren't trained for a science vessel...
Skill capping is good as it makes characters unique in build and ability.. no skill cap = everyone is the same thing, which is boring, especially in group or teams.
telling someone to leave is not good for the game.Some dissent is better than an empty server.
It's got to stop somewhere. You can collect endless BOFF points, but AFAIK they're as useful as Fed Credits right now. (Sarcasm: They're not.) Perhaps a playable first officer could fix that? (Pick a BOFF, give them equiv skills that a player character would get and use them in place of you in away missions.) But as for your character, the base timesink in an MMO: there's got to be a reason to make a character at all. All player concessions stop at that point.
I didnt tell anyone to leave. Only pointed out that those claiming they are leaving because the game isnt what they wanted are still here a month and a half later and only bashing the game. Not creating constructive posts on how Cryptic might do better with Change A or Change B implemented.
There are people here in the forums that dont fall in the fanboi or hater categories, that actually will criticize Cryptic when they deserve it. And praise things again when its deserved.
You couldn't be more wrong on this.. MT's have nothing to do with skill cap.. respecs in game are either given free or done with Merit Points .. MT option is there for people too lazy to run missions to earn merit points..
Respeccing is essentially free from real world money.
Post = fail.
Who are these fabled "people" you speak of?
Just because you dont find the OP's opinion constructive does not mean that others feel the same. And yes i do agree that some of the threads do not contain soultions but some do and they get flamed just the same.
It is a no win solution for anybody at this point.
*Sigh*
People please just read what SesshoSeki has to say on this matter.
He trumps every pro cap argument so well even the devs can't argue with him.
Don't believe me.....go check it out for yourselves.
True, but if you say the same thing over and over, well I cant say it directly, but look under the Cryptic Stidios Infractions Policy, way at the bottom, first bullet under Trolling, flaming, spamming.
The skill capless ppl Ive seen actually dont seem to want the capless system as much as they just want to spread the hate though. Id be willing to wager that even IF they gave them the capless system, there would be something next that they would rail against until they got what they wanted. Eventually, this group is running the game more than Cryptic is. How is this a better solution?
The OP doesnt fit this description? His title seems to speak otherwise. The body of the post seems to as well.
Dont even think of trying to threaten me with something about infractions. I know exactly what i can and cant post. And you might want to look at the same thing you post time and time again. people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Im sorry you took it as a personal threat but I wasnt talking specifically to you
And I DO read those rules, and I DO take points when I deserve them, and I DO attempt to get them uverturned when I feel they are unfair. (Although I do believe this may not BE possible
I did. I was in the last argument where he failed to do exactly that. I like how the devs "cant" argue with him. To this you are correct, as he ignores any point he disagrees with. You CANT argue with someone like that.
You misread what the dev stated.
The dev agreed with him that the initial design was for a capless system, however the directors of the game chose to use a capped system instead.. dev stated he didn't have all the details and would look more into it.
Doesn't change the fact that the game developers are going to keep a capped system, so ultimately, no matter what argument for a capless system is used.. the argument is fail from the first letter typed.
Devs have stated a cap system is in game, it will remain, it will expand as additional levels are released, but remain none the less.
so, they guy may have made a couple of good points (which I personally don't agree with).. it still = fail since skill cap will remain.. basically the devs have /facepalm when listening to the people who want a capless system.. People can keep crying about it.. that doesn't mean it will be changed.. all it will do is show the devs who the whiners are and avoid them or put them on /ignore.
Surely you've seen my posts in this very thread. Are you saying *I* just want to spread the hate?
I havent caught up with the whole thread yet so I HAVENT seen it yet
Seriously Pcg.......this has been going on for ages......it's pure madness. There are people that seem to think that if they don't agree with what someone is saying it is perfectly fine to throw insults.
I think perhaps this makes them feel special or something.....i don't know. But I can only think possibly that a lot of people on these forums have never been taught to hold academic debate. If they had perhaps they would refrain from being rude and would try to construct a better counter instead.
All it means is that holding such discussions is ultimately pointless because one side will get frustrated at being unable to 'win' the debate and so it devolves into petty name caling and mud flinging.
Actually, for the most part I DO think they would be mostly identical. The whole game is essentially based around dps. Threat is dps based, loot is dps based. So yer gonna run the best dps ships available, th best dps weapons, kits, etc. EVENTUALLY, yes, its all gonna end up the same stuff if you can max out everything.
Plus, as Personae said in the other thread,
"You dont think maybe the skill system was capless in the Beta Test phase so we could, maybe test them?"
As for bruce's assertion that their paragon is always right, again, like I said in the other thread, I would hate having a job that would require me to be infallable and omniscient or I get torn apart by the people I work for.
People (humans) make mistakes. Devs / GMs / Mods are human are they not?
Why is that such a big shock for you guys?
The funny thing about that is that you dont see the irony
Wb
Dude. Sarcasm. I'm kidding.
Anyway, kidding aside, the problem I have with Skill Cap arguments is that outside of capless, any other stance is non-negotiable. Not a raise of the cap, not more levels in endgame to augment further, it has to be gone. Anyone who says otherwise is a jerk for speaking, because our reasoning is perfect.
There's a myth used fallaciously in MMO's: You can never give us something then take it away. We'll hate you for it.
Everyone knows end-game is unfinished: there will be more ranks, whether they will apply to Read Admiral skills or a new tier or not is irrelevant now: If you want to leave until then, I get that. But the skill cap, short of raising, looks like it's not going away. May as well say you quit for all we know.
I agree 100%. Both sides do it and scream at each other. While the people who should be stepping up to the plate"Cryptic" and giving real answers do so only when their hand is forced and they feel forced into doing it. I find this a despiciable company and while i enjoy certain aspects of the game i am starting to really despise cryptic managment.
Your sig just points out what is wrong with this company.
Whoops, my bad lol
I guess they will give us RA10 and about 9.000 to 10.000 skillpoints
If the skill system would work as in EVE a cap wouldn't be necessary
UNCLEROMULUS!!!!!
in the words of Bruce Willis
'Damn glad to see ya boy!!!'
So, the only people who should speak on the forums are the educated? Anyone can play this game, their $15 a month means as much as mine does. If everything is to be logically reached, this forum will be a dry, elitist, unimaginitive quagmire. It still needs to be fun. Logic has it's role, but it's not an absolute.
Perhaps it wasn't the Dev's decision to make it this way, but a higher up at Cryptic or Atari... could explain why the "I'mma get back to you on 'dat" post in the other thread never happened.
I don't believe I've resorted to namecalling against people who intend to keep playing in any of my replies, I try not to personally, and if you catch me on it, I will apologize. (Except for ragequitters. **** them.)
OK, let me clarify as I used the incorrect terminology earlier:
Most of the skill ppl that Ive seen. Not all. Like Bruce's paragon.
Ick... I dont like EVE's system either. You can never catch up to ppl. Guys who were in the game 5 years before you are 5 years FARTHER down the road once you are 5 years in. Assuming of course all active levelling in the timeframe
No worries, if I took forums personally, I'd have quit the game at launch.
I don't want to see identical tacs, engies and scientists running around with the same build and gear. Eventually the "gear to have" will be had by everyone, so we would all just be photocopies. No thanks. It's already bad enough in MMO games with capped systems, so a uncapped system would just be all the worse. Plus I want to have to THINK a bit about my skill choices. Wheres the strategy in maxing everything out? You folks want no builds, just dummy mode?
Besides, the system isn't technically capped, as long as they add grades and ranks.
From Head start and Official Start.. the skill cap was in place.. You never had a capless system in the official game.
that is what makes the argument = fail
in Beta.. that is a testing stage.. a capless system in beta is understandable as all skills need to be tested.. but when the server went to Headstart / Official Live.. a skill cap was in game.. so players never officially had a capless system.. it wasn't taken away.. it didn't exist.
Comparing Alpha and Beta to Live is like comparing a Model T to a Ferrari.. There is no comparrison.
Arguing that a Skill cap was placed on the game.. the gae went live with a skill cap.. a skill cap wasn't placed on game after it went live..
Skill cap allows for individuality and a need to rely on other characters / classes / ships in order to complete some goals.. which is how MMOs should work.
LOL they should make em happy an take the skill cap off on Tribble
It IS testing...