Thanks for the SotG update! I can't wait to see these changes. Keep up the good work devs and remember sometimes the ones who complain have a loud voice, but you do have a lot more support than you think.
There is one main concern I have about the DP that I really hope is taken in to consideration - it is something many of us have faced and it would not be fair to be penalized for - Deep Space Encounters!
Ever warp in to one right in the middle of a bee hive of enemy ships or a passing fleet commander ship with its escorts? BOOM! If you dont hit the "Warp to Sector Space" button immediately you are defeated. Usualy the more powerful ships MAY get away and stay there, but that depends on if they are able to go to max impulse before the first shots are fired to get enough distance and escape the firing range.
Basically - a DP in Deep Space Encounters due to the problem I described would make me NOT ever want to do those encounters. This means that unless some fix is done to correct it, and pending the additional content, I would be a really unhappy and aggravated player because about 1/3 of the time I have to do those encounters to continue on to get to the next rank and more episode content.
Please take a look at this problem if you have not already BEFORE your Death Penalty is instituted.
Otherwise, I dont care about DP - I dont like it, but I will adopt to it and continue to enjoy STO.
That's what am talking about! DP's has to be weigh carefully as not to look like MPP's. ( Membership Players Punishments ) I didn't join STO to pay to be penalize so often in such behive-encounters just to please the death-wish fans. lol
First of all, thanks for the great info and taking the time to write it all up.
The whole "Death Penalty" thing is an interesting topic. I, for one, like the lack of a death penalty... however, I also understand the need to care about loss. It's tough. There are some times when I will enter a Deep Space Encounter and be warped right into the middle of an opposing fleet... it's a little annoying, but nothing severe. But with a Death Penalty, this problem would be almost unbearable. I know you lovable gents at Cryptic will come to a solution that will work for all parties, and I look forward to seeing it.
For the record, STO is the first MMO I have ever felt was good enough and compelling enough to pay a monthly fee for. Thanks for that. Cheers.
I am excited about all of the planned changes to the game with the exception of the death penalty. In my opinion, this choice is a very bad move and you will lose a ton of players over this. For players like me, who are not top notch gamers and die a lot, it will ruin the game.
There is one main concern I have about the DP that I really hope is taken in to consideration - it is something many of us have faced and it would not be fair to be penalized for - Deep Space Encounters!
Ever warp in to one right in the middle of a bee hive of enemy ships or a passing fleet commander ship with its escorts? BOOM! If you dont hit the "Warp to Sector Space" button immediately you are defeated. Usualy the more powerful ships MAY get away and stay there, but that depends on if they are able to go to max impulse before the first shots are fired to get enough distance and escape the firing range.
Basically - a DP in Deep Space Encounters due to the problem I described would make me NOT ever want to do those encounters. This means that unless some fix is done to correct it, and pending the additional content, I would be a really unhappy and aggravated player because about 1/3 of the time I have to do those encounters to continue on to get to the next rank and more episode content.
Please take a look at this problem if you have not already BEFORE your Death Penalty is instituted.
Otherwise, I dont care about DP - I dont like it, but I will adopt to it and continue to enjoy STO.
This is my stance on DP. With other aspects of the game, if the DP is overzealous, it could turn players away. So I say fix those other things first before death penalty.
But if they do a death penalty similar to Champions way, then it won't matter because while CO has a DP, you can easily overcome it. And at the very most you can be penalized is 6.5% damage and 6.5% health regen. Each death costs you .5% in each area but each mission complete gives back 1%. So basically you can die in a mission twice and complete it and be right back to full.
This kind of DP can be put in even with the DSE TRIBBLE that takes place. But to put a different Star Trek angle on it, return to stardock should do full restore as in Star Trek the captain can return to stardock for maintenance and repairs.
I do have the utmost faith that ZN is telling the truth and they will do great things with this game. I already witnessed a relatively clean release (a few hiccups) but I played SWG for 5 years (survived the CU and NGE) and I think I love this game a lot more. I am one of those players mentioned that love his ships and crew and will sit and watch the game grow with excitement.
My only complaint so far is all the Energy Credit Farmers. One way Star Wars Galaxies handled this is making a group of players, called Wardens, with a moderate ban stick to bump this rubbish out. :eek:
If this is something STO does decide to throw in, I would be willing to help out.
I don't know if it's been said (70+ pages is too much to read, especially at work), but if they make Romulans playable I think that Hirogen should be a species choice since they are allied now. Kinda like Gorn, Nausicans, and Orions being available to the KDF.
if I didnt know any better I could have sworn that we where being referred to as some kind of God in his State of the Game address.
little strange to think that they may have little shrines of us up around the office and that there maybe little STO deities standing around their cubes.
Ok so its a stretch I know....but damn it how else are we supposed to intimidate the In game "Q's"
Good State of the Game address though...looking forward to the next 6 - 12 months and most defiantely when the tribble comes online.
Because we are mightier than Q... we are QQ. A powerful but petulant entity.
Overall I am encouraged by this SotG. It looks like they have been listening to us.
I would love to be able to play a Romulan but only if they could fly in Romulan ships. I am also on the fence about a death penelty. I am down for it as long as it doesn't exist during PvP and Deep Space encounters.
I am excited about all of the planned changes to the game with the exception of the death penalty. In my opinion, this choice is a very bad move and you will lose a ton of players over this. For players like me, who are not top notch gamers and die a lot, it will ruin the game.
Only other game I've play of ST Online was Armada II. That's ancient to you, am sure, and I was part of an Admiral clan, and we were decent. But Death Penalties will cost STO to lose some players because by it's nature would be harsh. Just because the outspoken STO Forum posters advocating DP's doesn't mean it's the majority votes. Ever heard of the saying, the 'silence majority'? Those that just pay their membership, come on for few hours to play STO will be very unhappy that a bunch of DP's advocates will get there way and rest will suffer for it. I say make it optional. Why make other players suffer if they don't agree to DP's?
Looking forward to some of these updates, should balance out the game a bit more.
One more suggestion to the list of stuff to change, balance out the PVP. Federation players are having trouble handling the Klingon characters (playing as a Klingon is fun, but when a group of us can kill 40 federation players in the same time it takes them to get 9 kills, just isn't right).
Looking forward to some of these updates, should balance out the game a bit more.
One more suggestion to the list of stuff to change, balance out the PVP. Federation players are having trouble handling the Klingon characters (playing as a Klingon is fun, but when a group of us can kill 40 federation players in the same time it takes them to get 9 kills, just isn't right).
My 2 cents.
You think ground pvp is bad? Check out space PvP, klingon carriers = WAY too op.
STO being easy has absolutely nothing to do with a low DP. The game itself is too easy.
Oh yes it does. If the DP is harsh enough then instead of flying in there like some insane Leeroy perhaps people will have to kite the mobs or perhaps run away every now and again instead of just giving in when being battered because they know 5 seconds later they will re-spawn with a pristine new ship.
I want DP and a major difficulty ramp up. otherwise its just no challenge. No loss, No challenge!
Still no word on additional character slots! I still have no idea what it's like to play an engineer, because I don't want to have to delete an alt to find out. The character selection screen claims that they can be purchased in the C-Store, which is a lie. Besides, 3 slots may have been appropriate with no skill cap, but there is a cap now! We need more character slots, Cryptic, or at least an option to get more someday! Give us a heads-up on this please.
I applaud Zinc for the letter, some of it was a little bit of PR, but he did mention some of the key issues that have been discussed a lot on these forums.
I notice that tweaks are also underway already with regards to npcs and how they damage the crew. This is good to see.
After all, the larger the ships, the greater the risk and hopefully the greater the reward. That's what it's all about.
On the subject of the DP I feel the game will eventually need it, challenge makes encounters interesting. However, like others have said, certain issues have to be addressed before it is introduced. Such as the npcs camping the DSE spawn points. My suggestion to combat this is as follows:
When a player respawns / enters the instance, make players not targettable for a certain amount of time e.g. 10 seconds. That gives them enough time to get out of the instance if necessary.
Once the "untargetable period" ends, the player is targettable as usual.
If a player targets and shoots at an npc, then the "non-target period" is automatically cancelled and the player is targettable by the npcs.
Side note: if necessary, put a range on the "mark up" for kills. Players outside of that range will then not get kill markups. The range could be 1/4 the size of the instance zone. This prevents people "camping out" at the spawn points and not put any effort in, whilst encouraging people to keep together in the zone.
To me the above would help with the DSE npc camping situation, whilst still ensuring that people cannot just sit at the spawn point and get credit for kills.
Looking forward to some of these updates, should balance out the game a bit more.
One more suggestion to the list of stuff to change, balance out the PVP. Federation players are having trouble handling the Klingon characters (playing as a Klingon is fun, but when a group of us can kill 40 federation players in the same time it takes them to get 9 kills, just isn't right).
My 2 cents.
My first RA5 is a tactical which I think a ton of fed players were. So the first time through, the Klinks were stealth TRIBBLE the entire time. My next toon currently a Commander is an engineer. I dropped into a map that just started and the Klinks were up 3 to 1. I dropped a few turrents and cover shields and the Fed side ended up winning easily.
I think the Fed side needs to be different types more than the Klinks. When one side can just stealth TRIBBLE the other, that's no real strategy needed. For the Feds to have a chance requires different types of players, doing their proper roles, and working together. Any of those missing and the Klinks will stealth TRIBBLE the map all day.
Some fierce warriors they are. Hiding like little girls. I never heard Worf say "It's a good day to HIDE because I'm afraid to get in your face and fight like a warrior."
I applaud Zinc for the letter, some of it was a little bit of PR, but he did mention some of the key issues that have been discussed a lot on these forums.
I notice that tweaks are also underway already with regards to npcs and how they damage the crew. This is good to see.
After all, the larger the ships, the greater the risk and hopefully the greater the reward. That's what it's all about.
On the subject of the DP I feel the game will eventually need it, but like others have said, certain issues have to be addressed before it is introduced. Such as the npcs camping the DSE spawn points.
My suggestion:
When a player respawns / enters the instance, make players not targettable for a certain amount of time e.g. 20 seconds.
That gives them enough time to get out of the instance if necessary. If a player targets and shoots at an npc, then the "invulnerability period" is automatically cancelled and the player is targettable by the npcs.
The timer thing is nice exact would have to remember never use a certain preorder item you get with the DDE version. It autoshoots. And being in the Briar Patch when you actually notice it's working was enough for me.
These updates and future plans sounds very promising. This has the potential to be the best Star Trek game ever made.
Only thing I don't like is the difficulty slider - especially if they add the option to make the game easier.
It's already easy enough and the 'WoW generation' will just slide the difficulty down to easiest and sprint to Admiral.
Adding another NOOO to the overwhelming chorus against the death penalty.
The chorus isn't that overwhelming.
Besides, DP is a necessary evil. The devs cannot integrate the need for strategies if the group as a whole is effectively immortal and thus the chance of failure is very low. The only strategy promoted now, is just defeating the encounter. In a group situation, the death of one player has little effect on the possible outcome of the fight because the player can just run straight back in with full health as if nothing has happened.
Theres a reason why the majority of other MMOs have DP's of varying degrees. It all comes down to a matter of risk vs reward. The greater the risk = the greater the reward. The risk is the chance of not vanquishing the encounter. So if the risk is very low, then how can you expect to be rewarded sufficiently?
sounds like things are gonna get much better sooner than we anticipated!!!
New ships for Klingons!! about time!! LOL, now maybe we can get some PVE content for them too!!
I am for a Death Penalty, i still think its nice to get a new ship after I respawn... but would rather take a temperary hit to skills than ship damage(or even negative XP that i have to re-earn)
Next Faction... Romulans!!!! Federation, Klingons, and Romulans... the core 3!!!
everything sounds so good... but where are all the Vulcan ships?? or Andorian?? or anyother race that has ships thats in the Federation??
we need better stuff to Buy in the C-Store... most of us have at least 500 points... and buying the only 2 things leaves us with 180 points left
These updates and future plans sounds very promising. This has the potential to be the best Star Trek game ever made.
Only thing I don't like is the difficulty slider - especially if they add the option to make the game easier.
It's already easy enough and the 'WoW generation' will just slide the difficulty down to easiest and sprint to Admiral.
I don't think Cryptic would be so stupid to make things even easier to get to Admiral. If anything, what we have now will be the lowest setting for encounters. Higher settings will have to have a greater reward to balance the risk involved (i.e. rebalance of the xp gain and rewards in missions and kills). Much like the "Normal" and "Heroic / Epic" settings found in other mmo's when entering an instance.
Comments
Basicly couldn't have said it better myself.
This is my stance on DP. With other aspects of the game, if the DP is overzealous, it could turn players away. So I say fix those other things first before death penalty.
But if they do a death penalty similar to Champions way, then it won't matter because while CO has a DP, you can easily overcome it. And at the very most you can be penalized is 6.5% damage and 6.5% health regen. Each death costs you .5% in each area but each mission complete gives back 1%. So basically you can die in a mission twice and complete it and be right back to full.
This kind of DP can be put in even with the DSE TRIBBLE that takes place. But to put a different Star Trek angle on it, return to stardock should do full restore as in Star Trek the captain can return to stardock for maintenance and repairs.
My only complaint so far is all the Energy Credit Farmers. One way Star Wars Galaxies handled this is making a group of players, called Wardens, with a moderate ban stick to bump this rubbish out. :eek:
If this is something STO does decide to throw in, I would be willing to help out.
Because we are mightier than Q... we are QQ. A powerful but petulant entity.
Overall I am encouraged by this SotG. It looks like they have been listening to us.
why? romulans are just slightly less thickheaded klingons...
i wanna play as Dominion.
Hear that, host? Thanks for reading our posts.
One more suggestion to the list of stuff to change, balance out the PVP. Federation players are having trouble handling the Klingon characters (playing as a Klingon is fun, but when a group of us can kill 40 federation players in the same time it takes them to get 9 kills, just isn't right).
My 2 cents.
You think ground pvp is bad? Check out space PvP, klingon carriers = WAY too op.
Oh yes it does. If the DP is harsh enough then instead of flying in there like some insane Leeroy perhaps people will have to kite the mobs or perhaps run away every now and again instead of just giving in when being battered because they know 5 seconds later they will re-spawn with a pristine new ship.
I want DP and a major difficulty ramp up. otherwise its just no challenge. No loss, No challenge!
I notice that tweaks are also underway already with regards to npcs and how they damage the crew. This is good to see.
After all, the larger the ships, the greater the risk and hopefully the greater the reward. That's what it's all about.
On the subject of the DP I feel the game will eventually need it, challenge makes encounters interesting. However, like others have said, certain issues have to be addressed before it is introduced. Such as the npcs camping the DSE spawn points. My suggestion to combat this is as follows:
When a player respawns / enters the instance, make players not targettable for a certain amount of time e.g. 10 seconds. That gives them enough time to get out of the instance if necessary.
Once the "untargetable period" ends, the player is targettable as usual.
If a player targets and shoots at an npc, then the "non-target period" is automatically cancelled and the player is targettable by the npcs.
Side note: if necessary, put a range on the "mark up" for kills. Players outside of that range will then not get kill markups. The range could be 1/4 the size of the instance zone. This prevents people "camping out" at the spawn points and not put any effort in, whilst encouraging people to keep together in the zone.
To me the above would help with the DSE npc camping situation, whilst still ensuring that people cannot just sit at the spawn point and get credit for kills.
My first RA5 is a tactical which I think a ton of fed players were. So the first time through, the Klinks were stealth TRIBBLE the entire time. My next toon currently a Commander is an engineer. I dropped into a map that just started and the Klinks were up 3 to 1. I dropped a few turrents and cover shields and the Fed side ended up winning easily.
I think the Fed side needs to be different types more than the Klinks. When one side can just stealth TRIBBLE the other, that's no real strategy needed. For the Feds to have a chance requires different types of players, doing their proper roles, and working together. Any of those missing and the Klinks will stealth TRIBBLE the map all day.
Some fierce warriors they are. Hiding like little girls. I never heard Worf say "It's a good day to HIDE because I'm afraid to get in your face and fight like a warrior."
The timer thing is nice exact would have to remember never use a certain preorder item you get with the DDE version. It autoshoots. And being in the Briar Patch when you actually notice it's working was enough for me.
Only thing I don't like is the difficulty slider - especially if they add the option to make the game easier.
It's already easy enough and the 'WoW generation' will just slide the difficulty down to easiest and sprint to Admiral.
The chorus isn't that overwhelming.
Besides, DP is a necessary evil. The devs cannot integrate the need for strategies if the group as a whole is effectively immortal and thus the chance of failure is very low. The only strategy promoted now, is just defeating the encounter. In a group situation, the death of one player has little effect on the possible outcome of the fight because the player can just run straight back in with full health as if nothing has happened.
Theres a reason why the majority of other MMOs have DP's of varying degrees. It all comes down to a matter of risk vs reward. The greater the risk = the greater the reward. The risk is the chance of not vanquishing the encounter. So if the risk is very low, then how can you expect to be rewarded sufficiently?
New ships for Klingons!! about time!! LOL, now maybe we can get some PVE content for them too!!
I am for a Death Penalty, i still think its nice to get a new ship after I respawn... but would rather take a temperary hit to skills than ship damage(or even negative XP that i have to re-earn)
Next Faction... Romulans!!!! Federation, Klingons, and Romulans... the core 3!!!
everything sounds so good... but where are all the Vulcan ships?? or Andorian?? or anyother race that has ships thats in the Federation??
we need better stuff to Buy in the C-Store... most of us have at least 500 points... and buying the only 2 things leaves us with 180 points left
I don't think Cryptic would be so stupid to make things even easier to get to Admiral. If anything, what we have now will be the lowest setting for encounters. Higher settings will have to have a greater reward to balance the risk involved (i.e. rebalance of the xp gain and rewards in missions and kills). Much like the "Normal" and "Heroic / Epic" settings found in other mmo's when entering an instance.