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State of the Game - 25 Feb. 2010

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    will you guys have more items in the cstore like skirts for us females to were since some of us could not affort the deluxe edition of the game will we be able to buy the tos skirts soon from the cstore the cstore has nothing in it but two carracters to buy please email me the answer you have my eamil
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Desara wrote: »
    First of all, thanks for the great info and taking the time to write it all up.

    The whole "Death Penalty" thing is an interesting topic. I, for one, like the lack of a death penalty... however, I also understand the need to care about loss. It's tough. There are some times when I will enter a Deep Space Encounter and be warped right into the middle of an opposing fleet... it's a little annoying, but nothing severe. But with a Death Penalty, this problem would be almost unbearable. I know you lovable gents at Cryptic will come to a solution that will work for all parties, and I look forward to seeing it.

    For the record, STO is the first MMO I have ever felt was good enough and compelling enough to pay a monthly fee for. Thanks for that. Cheers.

    I wouldnt mind a death penelty but i totally agree with the above post sometimes you get pulled in to a DSC and your killed right away you didnt ask to go in it so this would really P me off and escorts shields are totally naff meaning it would hit escorts hard in big fights.

    Everything else sounds cool though
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I stated in another thread I think a living bonus would have a nice impact and give both sides a bit. I mean you get a bonus for not respwaning that cannot be gotten any other way in the game. That makes Respawning a bad thing.

    If they are going to do a death penality it should be based on rank. a PROPER death penality would also be multi tiered. First the character should lose at least one full level. For example a character at Lt 10 would fall to the beginning of Lt 9. Next if the respawn was on the planet you lose a random bridge officer, killed in action. The lose is TOTAL, all stats and equipment gone. If in space you lose your ship, all stats and equipment gone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Thank you so much Cryptic!

    You answered all my questions, now I feel so bad for being such an a** h*le yesterday. :)

    To be honest, I'm starting to really enjoy the game, it's just a little young and needs some beefing up, but from the sounds of it, you guys are all over it.

    :):):)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Great State of the Game report and good to hear that all those things are being worked on.

    My two energy credits:

    I can see why some want DP, but it should be optional. I already immerse more than enough in the game trying to stay alive without any need for frustrating DP. I play EVE, so I understand the desire - I just don't think STO needs to be EVE.

    Please expand on the Federation & Klingon content first. I too want to see playable Romulans (some stealth missions where going in guns blazes just gets you killed, along with more intrigue and betrayal and manipulation than shooting stuff, would all be good). However there's practically no Klingon PvE content and the Federation content, with a search and replace on locations and targets, could be the Klingon content as it stands (we just shoot stuff - where's the warning off, the dialogue, the diplomacy).
    Tarka wrote: »
    Besides, DP is a necessary evil. The devs cannot integrate the need for strategies if the group as a whole is effectively immortal and thus the chance of failure is very low. The only strategy promoted now, is just defeating the encounter. In a group situation, the death of one player has little effect on the possible outcome of the fight because the player can just run straight back in with full health as if nothing has happened.

    Theres a reason why the majority of other MMOs have DP's of varying degrees. It all comes down to a matter of risk vs reward. The greater the risk = the greater the reward. The risk is the chance of not vanquishing the encounter. So if the risk is very low, then how can you expect to be rewarded sufficiently?
    Not another person who peddles the tired refrain of 'risk vs reward'? This is not Pavlov experimenting on dogs. This is a fun game that doesn't need DP. I do not need to risk anything in order to be rewarded; this is not real life, this is not EVE, this is STO. Leave my casual fun well alone thank you very much. There are already MMOs that cater to your desires. My reward is enjoying the game, and the only thing I am prepared to risk is my monthly subscription.

    To be clear, I speak as a player of EVE, and a person who has blown up in STO very few times - I still think DP is unnecessary and a burden on the casual player, at the expense of boosting the hardcore player's ego. STO does not need that.

    You're also incorrect as to DP being required to promote strategy. A good game designer placing spawn points at the right places can do the same. Tactics, to use the correct term, develop as a result of combat & coordination (also leadership), not loss. Eliminating a player from the field for even 30 seconds can have dramatic effects. A coordinated team will accomplish more kills than a disorganised team, regardless of any other inputs, including DP.

    DP in PvE is just a waste of time; it encourages static content with each player following a script to avoid dying, instead of just enjoying the game. In PvP, it might have a place, but I will let people more experienced in STO PvP comment.
    If they are going to do a death penality it should be based on rank. a PROPER death penality would also be multi tiered. First the character should lose at least one full level. For example a character at Lt 10 would fall to the beginning of Lt 9. Next if the respawn was on the planet you lose a random bridge officer, killed in action. The lose is TOTAL, all stats and equipment gone. If in space you lose your ship, all stats and equipment gone.
    I can assure you that I'd immediately cancel my sub if that happened. I doubt I'd be alone either. You want to be playing EVE, I think.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    superponte wrote: »
    XP debt was the reason I stopped playing in favor of other games. Death penalty sounds like a great idea, but it will "kill" enthusiasm.

    There are many different forms for DP: XP debt (Vanguard), XP loss, impairment of the health bars (SWG), Durability loss (WoW), Item loss (Eve)

    In my opinion, Cryptic were on the right road when they entertained the idea of durability loss. However, personally I wouldn't have called it "Crew" loss, I'd have used "Criticial Systems" as a title.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I am sooooooooo glad now I purchased a Life Time Subscription. I actually feel sorry for all those who canceled theirs after a week or so of whining. We just needed to be a little patient. The community has spoken and Cryptic has listened. My faith in you guys has been restored. I can't wait to see what you are going to come up with next. I would recommend STO to anyone. Now I feel part of a real Starfleet...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If there is going to be a Death Penalty of some sort added to the game, I really hope that it is implemented simultaneously with a fix to Deep Space Encounters that warp you into the middle of the flagship fleet and get you killed before your client loads the zone. Just sayin'.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Show me a DP that does not, in the end, simply consist of a time sink.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Raithnor wrote: »
    On death penalties:

    Increase the respawn timers for PVP. Adding a death penalty to PVP beyond that will drive away causal PVPers. Either that or add a Shield Bonus to a ship that destroys another ship to prevent Zerg rush attrition. In PVE a player/party defeat results in the full health of the enemy.

    Similarly, fix the enemy spwan camping in Deep Space Encounters before bothering with a death penalty in those encounters.

    I like the idea of using the Difficulty slider tied to death penalties. It has a very "Riskier the road, the greater the proift."-aspect to it. Again so long as the risk to reward ratio is kept the same and it's "opt-in", I think it will go a long way to pleasing people who want to play the game "their way" as opposed to imposing an across the board solution that alienates half of the playerbase.

    Don't add a Death Penalties before LTC1, getting through LT is already enough of a tedious slog without making it longer.

    Beyond that Memory Alpha really needs a lot of work. There were some interesting ideas in Champions. (Although the "skill system" wasn't one of them.) about adding specific bonuses to various equipment types. The current system feels like a highly-gated store that relies too much on lucky drops of items that aren't normally sold in NPC shops.

    Very good post mate.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    superponte wrote: »
    XP debt was the reason I stopped playing in favor of other games. Death penalty sounds like a great idea, but it will "kill" enthusiasm.

    Speak for yourself. It make me try harder not to die! Corpse running in WoW was a nightmare so you know what I did to combat it? I tried my frikkin best not to die even if it meant doing a Ronnie Biggs (To our american cousins, This means run away : ) )

    No offence but all you in favour of no DP sound like the new console generation who think the solution to an hard game is to press UP, DOWN, LF Trigger, RT Trigger and wham bam thank you mam, The end of the game is in sight!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    For the love of all that is holy... NO DEATH PENALTY!!!!! I don't know where ya'll get off saying the community wants it. I've seen as many posts against it as I have for it. People are polarized over this issue, so why make a change. This game is AMAZING just the way it is. NO CHANGE TO DEATH PENALTY! PLEASE!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Askarr wrote:
    Not another person who peddles the tired refrain of 'risk vs reward'? This is not Pavlov experimenting on dogs. This is a fun game that doesn't need DP. I do not need to risk anything in order to be rewarded; this is not real life, this is not EVE, this is STO. Leave my casual fun well alone thank you very much. There are already MMOs that cater to your desires. My reward is enjoying the game, and the only thing I am prepared to risk is my monthly subscription.

    To be clear, I speak as a player of EVE, and a person who has blown up in STO very few times - I still think DP is unnecessary and a burden on the casual player, at the expense of boosting the hardcore player's ego. STO does not need that.

    You're also incorrect as to DP being required to promote strategy. A good game designer placing spawn points at the right places can do the same. Tactics, to use the correct term, develop as a result of combat & coordination (also leadership), not loss. Eliminating a player from the field for even 30 seconds can have dramatic effects. A coordinated team will accomplish more kills than a disorganised team, regardless of any other inputs, including DP.

    DP in PvE is just a waste of time; it encourages static content with each player following a script to avoid dying, instead of just enjoying the game. In PvP, it might have a place, but I will let people more experienced in STO PvP comment.

    All encounters in ALL games (MMO, single player and yes even Pen and Paper games) are designed with specific tactics in mind. That's part of the whole fun of an encounter. To defeat it in the way/s that the designers intended. There HAS to be encouragement to play the game in the way that the devs intended, otherwise the encounter is uncontrollable and cannot be rewarded appropriately. Right now, "zerging" an encounter until its dead doesn't promote the use of such tactics. The loss of a player in a group situation is hardly felt at all because the player comes right back into the fight in a manner of seconds with full health.

    So tell me, how can such a situation promote the use of tactics if there is actually no reason to use them?

    If there was no tactics required in a game, then every encounter would be at the same difficulty as all others. Which is not very much fun is it. Fun comes from challenge. And challenge comes from the possibility of actually NOT defeating an encounter. The greater the possibility = the greater the risk = the greater the challenge. Mind you, there is a cut off point whereby a challenge is no longer fun if it is considered TOO challenging. On the other hand, no challenge is not fun either.

    When you play single player games, what happens when you die in them? That's right, you lose progress by a substantial amount. Frustrating? Yes. Does it encourage you to attempt to defeat the encounter without dying? Yes.

    Now to me, I would rather incurr a small death penalty per death, than lose ALL progress in a quest, wouldn't you?

    The simple fact is, if you don't want to put in effort to get good items then you shouldn't expect to recieve them, its that simple. This is how life works. Game emulate certain aspects of real life, they need to in order to be considered fun by the majority.

    A DP system linked with appropriate mechanics encourages players to consider the risks and the rewards in regards to an encounter, and not to take unnecessary risks when attempting to defeat an encounter. Because if they do, then theres a good chance they will be penalised for it. And when I say penalised, I'm NOT necessarily referring to the Eve DP system.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Woot!! I've been playing this game for 2 weeks now and Im in love with it, from adquiring my Nova Class Starship and equippin' her with the latest tech, to skilling up my crew and my avatar this is the first MMO I have come to be veeery confortable with. Most MMOs PVP require the player to extensively grind...no i mean GRIND.. themselves to adquire some out of the way marvelous artefacts after they reach level 1000 or something like that to even consider winning in a game against hardcore pvpeers. Just yesterday i was required to enter a PVP combat zone (unbeknownst to me) for one of the commanders at K7, I realized I was in one when the opponents started to appear with the same triangular symbol that the rest of the players did (no kiddin, I was sweating, my heartbeat rushed 3 times its normal rate and I kept thinking "I dont wanna loose everything I has won so far"). Then I joined a group of other players and I asked "Is this a PVP zone" to which the Captain in charge of the team said "that's the rumor going around" to which I cringed (well there's no way to hide the fact now that im a newbie) oh well. So then we started confronting the other team (a group of Klingon hardcore pvpeers) and to my surprise not only was I helping take down the hardest enemies (I had with me a stasis field ability in my field kit which I use to kill PVE bosses) and was very helpful in the game) I was actually surviving in the game!! WOW. Another HUGE surprise for me was that there was no lag whatsoever which is really frustrating in PVP. Of course after a while the Klingons changed their tactics and I got killed twice, once a friend came over and resucitated me on the other i had to respawn, but in both times I didnt loose anything I had (something WONDERFUL) which made me think about going back to do more PVP again and removed all the frustration related too loosng everything u own in a fight (like in EVE). That honestly (from my perspective) takes ALL the appeal to the GAME... since its a GAME.. and games are meant to have fun and make new friends (honestly the sadism u see in the aforementioned game is soooo cruel at times that it really doesnt wanna make u play the game anymore (what's the point?) So my humble opinion is dont give a Death penalty to the game it would only take away all the fun and make the omnipotent hardcore pvpeers MORE omnipotent... and that would inevitably lead to an "exclusive club" of ppl that would eventually get bored of winning all the time and start saying bad things about the game.... IN SHORT, SAY NO TO DEATH PENALTY.

    PS. To any players who agree with me pls reply to this post and voice ur opinion. Thanks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kinda saddens me that they didn't mention anything about FvF.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dear Cryptic,

    I am a very serious MMO player. I raid in a high end World of Warcraft guild and have seen/killed things that less than 1% of the player base has.

    I purchased a life time subscription to STO after playing Open Beta and having a lot of fun.

    While most of my time recently is being spent working toward defeating Arthas in Ice Crown Citadel, I look forward to playing STO more after we have done so. I see a lot of potential and look forward to your end game raids.

    With that in mind, I am greatly disturbed by what I am reading here regarding death penalties and would hope you could expand on what you have in mind.

    A lot of what I have read here regarding death penalties on players is way over the top. Loss of rank? Loss of items? These are things which, to be blunt, will drive away people like my self (and our recommendations to other gamers - there are four other people within my guild who started playing STO solely on my recommendation).

    Can I see a penalty of durability loss or some sort of function degradation which is repaired at a energy level cost at a star base? Sure.

    Can I see losing rank, crew or even your ship as a result of dying? No way, no how.

    Dont make me regret purchasing a life time membership.

    Thank you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You know, I have to say that Cryptic and the STO crew have done a bang-up job of listening to the players. I know they are swamped with glitches, bugs, and suggestions; but the level of interaction between the developer and the customer is outstanding. Good job, Cryptic. Great job STO...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Good post. Great read.

    Some other stuff/feedback to consider:

    - Extra uniform slots available in the C-Store
    - Other Star Trek Unis available in the C-Store (like TNG and DS9 and TOS unis)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    nannerslug wrote:
    Dear Cryptic,

    Can I see a penalty of durability loss or some sort of function degradation which is repaired at a energy level cost at a star base? Sure.

    Can I see losing rank, crew or even your ship as a result of dying? No way, no how.

    Dont make me regret purchasing a life time membership.

    Thank you.


    And I STRONGLY agree with Nannerslug on this...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I can only say this and mean it simply

    PLEASE

    No death penalty.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Im glad cryptic made that post, far more info then what any other MMO would of released. Yes there is so much more they can do and looks like they know it.

    If a death penalty comes hopefully its a 2 minute cool down. I enjoy the fact I dont fear death but I do try and avoid it out of pride.

    The amount of times ive got to 1 even 0% and lived! love it!

    I enjoy the game and I will not cancel, I still need a fleet lol. I am CPT 6 i think. With my own lil voyager!!!!!!

    I keep humming the music lol


    Anyway good job crytic x
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Agreed - Don't break this game with a DP.

    Thanks
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    nannerslug wrote:
    With that in mind, I am greatly disturbed by what I am reading here regarding death penalties and would hope you could expand on what you have in mind.

    A lot of what I have read here regarding death penalties on players is way over the top. Loss of rank? Loss of items? These are things which, to be blunt, will drive away people like my self (and our recommendations to other gamers - there are four other people within my guild who started playing STO solely on my recommendation).

    Can I see a penalty of durability loss or some sort of function degradation which is repaired at a energy level cost at a star base? Sure.

    Can I see losing rank, crew or even your ship as a result of dying? No way, no how.

    Dont make me regret purchasing a life time membership.

    Thank you.

    Exactly!

    A durability loss system is much more "palletable" than other forms of DP such as item / BO / ship loss or xp "debt".

    Whilst a durability loss system has a noticeable effect per death, it is not so imposing as to make things too difficult after only one single death. However, if left unchecked, such a system can seriously impede performance after a considerable amount of deaths or time. The fact that the game already has a "crew" durability loss system in place suggests that this is most likely the way that Cryptic will go with a DP.

    e.g. 1 death = 10% durability loss = 5% reduction in weapon / shield effectiveness. Its noticable and yet is not too imposing. This implies that at 100% durability loss, the maximum effect on weapon / shield effectiveness is a 50% reduction. The 50% loss can be regained by visiting an npc at a starbase / outpost who will repair your ship / replenish your crew.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Majosea wrote: »
    Unfortunately like I was saying, my captain toon was doing a PvE open instance when 2 lowbies wandered in and the difficulty jumped up for 3 ships being in there. The lowbies just hung back while I got wasted by the new and improved spawns they caused.

    You being the first in the zone have the ability to kick them out too as you would have been considered the leader of the team. I've done that when the people refuse to come up and help out. If they help then no problem but if they sit there expecting me to do all the work, the boot they get.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    @ChichenItza

    Woah (TL;DR) Wall of text and all. Try to press Return every now and again, Its not hard, Just like killing in STO but with STO you hit Space.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Nothing I hate worse in a game is a needless death penalty. There was nothing more time consuming or annoying in World Of Warcrap than dying and having to either wait for the group to wipe because you were just dps and not important enough for a battle res or having to ghost back to your corpse from a mile away to res with half life only to be camped over and over. The respawn timer is fine, maybe increase it to 1 minute. I could see maybe having to recrew your ship after a death. I don't want to see a death penalty that makes cringe each time I die, because I know it either gonna take me forever to get back into the fight or its gonna cost me lots of precious ingame credits. Lets not take the fun out of the game, because a few people feel every game needs some ridiculous penalty for death.

    Also, I fly a cruiser. I think they are fine for turn rate. If anything its more annoying not being able to have full 360 degrees of rotation than having an uber turn rate. Cruisers are not meant to be fast turning machines, they are the largest ships in the fleet, you don't see Aircraft Carriers IRL or Star Destroyers in Star Wars turn on a dime. Use the console mods too, they have the turn strength modules for a reason. I use one and can pretty much keep my forward weapons on a target unless they happen to be an escort or other quick ship. Load torpedoes in the front and rear and use beams to give you great broadside weapon coverage. No person is gonna sit to your side with 6 or 7 beams pounding them, they will eventually move into your torpedo arc to get away from them. But, the turning arc set at 45 degrees up and down is probably the only real issue I see. Having to spiral around to get to ships located above your 45 degree arc of movement is pretty much a pain in the backside.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    For a DP I'd say do something like borderlands death equal a % loss of cash or credits in our case.

    If you do put in DP fix the spawn area of deep space encounter. I tend to go boom a lot when I first enter one. An while your at it how about making them not auto start. More then once after coming out of a mission I have my inventor and skills open changing stuff around and get sucked into one. Going into an encounter with no sheild in the middle of a battleship spawn = instant death.

    Next playable group Romulan.

    A setable transwarp would be nice as well.

    Overall good game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Death penalty is an AWFUL idea! NO NO NO! A thousand times no! If I lost my captain, crew and ship I'd be crushed after all the work that was done!

    Need more clothes, the ability to have more Character slots. With only three I feel so trapped!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Awesome post there Mr. Zn!

    Even if it gets heated on the forums, it's really nice to hear that you're at least aware of the things we're worked up over. If the things you've listed make it into game, I might find it hard to be a cynic :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Naevius wrote:
    Show me a DP that does not, in the end, simply consist of a time sink.


    Look at Cryptic's other game Champions Online. You don't have to go far for your answer, did you?
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