The problem is that this game has nothing new to offer once you hit Admiral. Reach level 45, and you've done it all. In almost all mmos, you can just roll a new toon, and have some new stuff to do. Not here. It's one path, one goal, and only one achievement. Hit level 45.
People, when this game launched, there were only 87 quests (3 were added in a patch). You have one path on your way to the last level. Sure, there may be 3 different classes, but how different are they really? Each path you can use any type of ship, have the same exact BO's, ship equipment, and ground equipment. Not to mention, you do the same exact quests. The only difference are a few skills you get as you level up.
I understand that there are some who enjoy this game. When I first started playing in beta, I enjoyed it too. And to be honest, some of the missions I did enjoy. Playing through the first time is great. Some of you are experiencing that. However, once you've done it all, why subscribe? Besides doing the quests and getting to the last level, there is absolutely nothing else to do.
Now before some of you reply with stuff to do in the game, I'll answer some of them now.
Why don't you level up crafting? What would be the point? Everything you get from crafting, you can obtain every other way. The craftable items aren't unique in any way. They don't offer stats which you can't get on anything else. Say I did level up crafting. Would there be any profit? Can I take the time to buy or farm for the items needed for it, only to post it up on the exchange with hundreds of other items of the same type that were looted?
Why don't you join a fleet? I'm in one. But tell me this. Why pay $15 a month to chat with others? There are plenty of other free chat systems out there.
Why don't you just pvp? PVP is broken. Not enjoyable.
Why don't you go explore? Explore what? Can't enter any system at will. When I do enter a system, I get no info on the planet. Besides, every region of space in this game is laid out for me in the star charts. They've all been explored already.
All of you who are defending Cryptic, how many of you actually reached end game? How many of you actually did it all? I'm willing to bet most of you haven't reach Admiral yet. If thats the case, I was just like you. Understand that. The ones who agree with me now, are in the same boat. They've done it all. Apples and oranges.
AOC allegedly sold around 800000 copies (or there abouts). There is no way that theres any more than about 50k - 100k subs. WAR is going the same way.
Don't get me wrong, I fully agree that a lot of businesses are all about money at the end of the day. But, many businesses that fail to meet standards because of short-cuts, tight purse strings etc often don't have a good long term future when they've only got one product to rely on for income.
I played both, AoC failed simply because of lack of gameplay and far too easy to get to the top levels, but had exquisit graphics. It was from the same stable as Anarchy Online ( my favorite MMO) which also had a desasterous launch. But I read the game is picking up and people are going back.
WAR well I liked it at first, but te developers starting to remove bits because they could not get it to work, just sucked and was the final straw.
But in both cases you cannot say they were a FAIL in the first 2 weeks, and te same with STO.
STO maybe will fail, but if you had given WOW 2 weeks only it would have failed too.
I played both, AoC failed simply because of lack of gameplay and far too easy to get to the top levels, but had exquisit graphics. It was from the same stable as Anarchy Online ( my favorite MMO) which also had a desasterous launch. But I read the game is picking up and people are going back.
WAR well I liked it at first, but te developers starting to remove bits because they could not get it to work, just sucked and was the final straw.
But in both cases you cannot say they were a FAIL in the first 2 weeks, and te same with STO.
STO maybe will fail, but if you had given WOW 2 weeks only it would have failed too.
There is no way WoW could have failed in the first 2 weeks. Within 6 months, I still didn't do most of what the game had to offer. Sure, each patch they dumbed it down and made it too easy, so it got boring. But that was the beauty of WoW. You could go months and months, and still find new stuff to do.
This game doesn't offer that. 2 weeks, tops, and you've done it all. Now if Cryptic would have spent a bit more time on this game before going live, and have added 2 - 3 months worth of content, then we would have plenty to do while they worked on more content. Instead, we twiddle our thumbs and wait for the new content without having anything to do in the meantime.
The problem is that this game has nothing new to offer once you hit Admiral. Reach level 45, and you've done it all. In almost all mmos, you can just roll a new toon, and have some new stuff to do. Not here. It's one path, one goal, and only one achievement. Hit level 45.
Snipped to hell forgive me.
OK I beleive your first mistake is playing Beta. I did the same on AOC and WAR. I had played much of the game before release so it became a bit samey to me. I now don't do betas and therefore about 4 weeks behind you.
This then raises the problem, I am not leveling fast, Again a problem I found in AoC when I got to 50 I sat on my own waiting for others.
Commercially the men in grey suits are demanding a game is released, so the development team often work on the start-game and hope to get to end-game in a patch or two. All games have really been like this.
Maybe what you should do is take a break for 2 or tree weeks while the majority of people slowly level and see what happens. Then if nothing has been done I will be the first to admit it failed.
There is no way WoW could have failed in the first 2 weeks. Within 6 months, I still didn't do most of what the game had to offer. Sure, each patch they dumbed it down and made it too easy, so it got boring. But that was the beauty of WoW. You could go months and months, and still find new stuff to do.
This game doesn't offer that. 2 weeks, tops, and you've done it all. Now if Cryptic would have spent a bit more time on this game before going live, and have added 2 - 3 months worth of content, then we would have plenty to do while they worked on more content. Instead, we twiddle our thumbs and wait for the new content without having anything to do in the meantime.
Accountants .... I work in IT and they demand release as soon as possible. The whole business has had its heart sucked from it by the grey suited vampires.
Depth
None. No immersion. Nothing unique. Shoot it, scan it. Nothing more.
Storyline
Decent. Of the 87 quests in the game at launch, a little less than half were actual storylines, and I enjoyed them; the first time.
Overall
Having no multiplayer in a multiplayer game makes no sense. There is nothing to figure out and no puzzles to solve. Aside from class specific abilities you get as you progress, there is no reason to level up more than one toon. The only interactions besides shooting is scanning something on your ship, or waving a tricorder on the ground.
Sector space is a bore. You also run the risk of running into an enemy contact while alt tabbing out if you don't feel like watching your ship auto pilot through sector space.
PVP is a joke. Zones are too large. If your team loses a couple people, and they use impulse to get back to the fight, they arive there with low power systems, can easily be picked off, and lack the damage/support to help their team.
Crafting? Why even call it crafting? I've seen more in depth text based crafting systems. There is nothing that you can get that you can't get better from exploration, pvp or credits.
Missing Emote
/gladididn'tbuyalifetimesub
QQ Much? This game more so then any other Star trek game to date allows you to actually live the life of a star fleet caption. For what its worth, this is an enjoyable game.
OK I beleive your first mistake is playing Beta. I did the same on AOC and WAR. I had played much of the game before release so it became a bit samey to me. I now don't do betas and therefore about 4 weeks behind you.
This then raises the problem, I am not leveling fast, Again a problem I found in AoC when I got to 50 I sat on my own waiting for others.
Commercially the men in grey suits are demanding a game is released, so the development team often work on the start-game and hope to get to end-game in a patch or two. All games have really been like this.
Maybe what you should do is take a break for 2 or tree weeks while the majority of people slowly level and see what happens. Then if nothing has been done I will be the first to admit it failed.
No, it beta I paced myself. Learned about the game mainly rather than leveling up. I stopped at level 14. Spent the rest of beta submitting bugs and answering questions other people ingame asked.
I didn't rush to the last level in live either. I did the quests, and read every dialog. Leveling was just too quick. Besides, by the time I was 25 or so, there were already hundreds of Admirals. Not enough players at endgame isn't a problem, since there are plenty. Stuff to do at endgame however, is the problem.
No, it beta I paced myself. Learned about the game mainly rather than leveling up. I stopped at level 14. Spent the rest of beta submitting bugs and answering questions other people ingame asked.
I didn't rush to the last level in live either. I did the quests, and read every dialog. Leveling was just too quick. Besides, by the time I was 25 or so, there were already hundreds of Admirals. Not enough players at endgame isn't a problem, since there are plenty. Stuff to do at endgame however, is the problem.
I just hard to let you get away with STO is a FAIL at the moment, there are many like me who enjoy doing the quests maybe one or two a week and slowly levelling up. (we have to work).
Yes I am sorry to hear there is no endgame, but I think a little patience isn't a bad thing and hopefully it will come. but if like WAR it wasnt there after 6 months then I will help you type FAIL>
I played both, AoC failed simply because of lack of gameplay and far too easy to get to the top levels, but had exquisit graphics. It was from the same stable as Anarchy Online ( my favorite MMO) which also had a desasterous launch. But I read the game is picking up and people are going back.
WAR well I liked it at first, but te developers starting to remove bits because they could not get it to work, just sucked and was the final straw.
But in both cases you cannot say they were a FAIL in the first 2 weeks, and te same with STO.
STO maybe will fail, but if you had given WOW 2 weeks only it would have failed too.
You and I both played AOC, that we agree. Now, look at the state that AOC was in at launch and compare it to now. Is there really that much of a difference in gameplay? Nope. Why?
1) Massive content gaps in the leveling process. Consequently, whilst the implementation of content to cover such gaps was being worked on. Everything else had to be put on the back burner. They claimed that they were "listening to the players" by implementing Ymirs Pass. That didn't need them to listen to the players. That gaps were blatantly obvious at launch. That fact that such massive level gaps shouldn't exist at launch alone set the game content development back at least 10 months.
2) PVP: was kept to the battlegrounds, had massive problems and is basically an FFA gank fest. "Massive" pvp failed to do what it was hyped up to do and was buggy as hell for 18 months. As far as I know, they've yet to re-implement openworld meaningful pvp.
3) World design: zones that are mainly not even connected to one another being accessed by npcs who acted as the trigger to switch zones. Awful idea. Unfortunately, its taken until the expansion to veer away from that issue. However it still remains in the original game.
4) End game group content: Whilst raiders where screaming for Tier 2 content (because Tier 1 was either bugged to hell or easy as pie), solo'ers and group'ers were screaming for their content. The issues concerning itemisation and pvp pushed any content back to the point whereby people lost faith. So by the time it had been implemented, it was no longer needed because people had already either left or they had found the raids easy enough to get raid gear instead. Consequently the raid gear far outstripped any new end game "blue" gear that was put in as rewards.
5) Re-itemisation: Was poorly implmemented and took way to too long come into the game. It failed to make the player feel that they were actually progressing when they obtained new raid items after they had their Tier 1 items. It was all an illusion. FC kept too much of a strangle hold on the "power" of items and thus people felt that T2 was a waste of time given the measily potency increase.
Now, aside from the "combo system", which incidentally was only implemented for the melee classes and thus the casters felt a little left out, the rest of the gameplay beyond level 20 felt decidedly under-developed. Sure, they had the zones, but there was little depth. Crafting and harvesting systems are no better than WoW, and in some cases worse. Once again another company who fail to consider how crafting / harvesting and the economy are interwoven and can help create a more in-depth game world.
Unlike WoW, EQ2 and those before them, many of the later MMO's fail to provide a fuller enriched, and above all, polished MMO experience. If the likes of SOE and Blizzard can attempt it, why are so many other companies reluctant or are unable to? Is it time? Resources? Money? If so, why are they always trying to "cut corners" and ultimately end up looking worse for it?
They focus in a small number of areas hoping to god that these little features like public quests or a melee combo system would pull the game through. They failed to grasp the concept that such features are basically rendered moot if the rest of the game generally doesn't live up to standard.
I just hard to let you get away with STO is a FAIL at the moment, there are many like me who enjoy doing the quests maybe one or two a week and slowly levelling up. (we have to work).
Yes I am sorry to hear there is no endgame, but I think a little patience isn't a bad thing and hopefully it will come. but if like WAR it wasnt there after 6 months then I will help you type FAIL>
That is a pretty good way of saying "Ok after 6 months when they have screwed you out of your hard earned money then quit" Seriously you would pay 6 months worth of monthly fee's waiting for stuff that should have been there already? Pay for something that does not even work right half the time? Wow, I got an idea I just wrote a book but only the first chapter is done, I will get the next chapter to you in a few months but I want all the money up front.
And before you guys ramble on about how MMO's are not completed when they release you are full of it, that is what expansions are for, patches are for fixing not adding end game content. Face it they released an incomplete game and expect you to wait for the end game content that should have been in already.
And I am really tired of people comparing this game to WoW, warcraft blows this game out of the water even in the beta warcraft smokes this game to no degree. Every single aspect of world of warcraft is better then STO. Keep on hating its ok I really don't like WoW much myself its old, its boring but it was a great game for years. If STO is still here and has not lost most of its subs after a year I will eat the disc it came on. Its a safe bet I won't have to though.
I have not gone back to AOC, the thought of doing villas just one more time would kill me.:eek:
the concept though was fantastic, shame Funcom couldnt deliver.
I have not gone back to AOC, the thought of doing villas just one more time would kill me.:eek:
the concept though was fantastic, shame Funcom couldnt deliver.
I completely agree with you. And now you understand why people are concerned about STO. Yes, such concerns MAY be unwarranted. But when you look at the history of other MMO's, you cannot help but notice the similarities and trends that occur just before, on and just after launch.
I REALLY hope for all our sakes that Cryptic have plans to re-vitalise game. But I'm also a realist, and I know that if it hasn't been done already, they either are incapable of doing what is needed in a reasonable time frame, or have no intentions of doing what is needed.
Either way, people are not willing to waste money and time on the "hope" that it will change. They need to be given assurances and an ETA. Otherwise they will vote with their wallets and begin to look at the competition, perhaps in a more favourable light.
Like I've said before: its easier AND cheaper to keep an existing customer happy, than it is to lose them and try to get them back.
And I am really tired of people comparing this game to WoW, warcraft blows this game out of the water even in the beta warcraft smokes this game to no degree. Every single aspect of world of warcraft is better then STO. Keep on hating its ok I really don't like WoW much myself its old, its boring but it was a great game for years. If STO is still here and has not lost most of its subs after a year I will eat the disc it came on. Its a safe bet I won't have to though.
All I say is you cannot shout fail after 2 weeks. and you dont ave to pay subs you can leave and come back.
I disagree with one thing.. Patches in an MMO are not about game fixes, they are about game progression. Thats how they add in events and change some of the rules. even WOW does this with its events.
The reason I say give it time is simple, back in the 80s and 90s IT was great, we could take our time, do things properly and deliver wat our users wanted. Now we live in a world of accountants who want income NOW and are willing to off-shore all work to Asia where they pay peanuts for prgrammers who look up their code from google.
All I say is you cannot shout fail after 2 weeks. and you dont ave to pay subs you can leave and come back.
I disagree with one thing.. Patches in an MMO are not about game fixes, they are about game progression. Thats how they add in events and change some of the rules. even WOW does this with its events.
The reason I say give it time is simple, back in the 80s and 90s IT was great, we could take our time, do things properly and deliver wat our users wanted. Now we live in a world of accountants who want income NOW and are willing to off-shore all work to Asia where they pay peanuts for prgrammers who look up their code from google.
Yep, it is a shame that the world is as such. However, even Accountants must realise that you can only shave off so much from "tolerance factors" and "margins" before you begin to seriously impede the performance of the product. Do it too much and the product no longer resembles what the customer wanted in the first place.
I completely agree with you. And now you understand why people are concerned about STO. Yes, such concerns MAY be unwarranted. But when you look at the history of other MMO's, you cannot help but notice the similarities and trends that occur just before, on and just after launch.
I REALLY hope for all our sakes that Cryptic have plans to re-vitalise game. But I'm also a realist, and I know that if it hasn't been done already, they either are incapable of doing what is needed in a reasonable time frame, or have no intentions of doing what is needed.
Either way, people are not willing to waste money and time on the "hope" that it will change. They need to be given assurances and an ETA. Otherwise they will vote with their wallets and begin to look at the competition, perhaps in a more favourable light.
Like I've said before: its easier AND cheaper to keep an existing customer happy, than it is to lose them and try to get them back.
This is one reason I dont like such early fail posts, if people leave then it is certain te game dies and te concept with it. Yes the trend for MMOS recently is awfull and I do wonder if it is just a cynical release a game, get as much money as you can before folding. Sadly caused by the success of WOW making accountants greedy for some of their pie.
Yep, it is a shame that the world is as such. However, even Accountants must realise that you can only shave off so much from "tolerance factors" and "margins" before you begin to seriously impede the performance of the product. Do it too much and the product no longer resembles what the customer wanted in the first place.
LOL ... Work in IT now, you will find loads of managers and NO programmers. Those that earn the money are ripping companies apart, just look at EDS and how it was eaten by HP, yet HP made 20,000 developers redundant from the old EDS. so who does the work now?
All I say is you cannot shout fail after 2 weeks. and you dont ave to pay subs you can leave and come back.
I disagree with one thing.. Patches in an MMO are not about game fixes, they are about game progression. Thats how they add in events and change some of the rules. even WOW does this with its events.
The reason I say give it time is simple, back in the 80s and 90s IT was great, we could take our time, do things properly and deliver wat our users wanted. Now we live in a world of accountants who want income NOW and are willing to off-shore all work to Asia where they pay peanuts for prgrammers who look up their code from google.
I completely disagree patches are certainly not meant to complete a product after its been released that a finished product should have had from the start. World of Warcraft may have added content on a small bases but most of the end game content was already there its not like they added a bunch of instances after the game was finished and everyone was sitting around at level 60 asking "wheres the end game" which is currently what is happening here.
As for giving them time, I am truly sorry that is exactly what an alpha and beta are for they have had years to test this but I think many will agree with me, if this is the best they can do after 3+ years they need another 2 yrs to fix it.
This is one reason I dont like such early fail posts, if people leave then it is certain te game dies and te concept with it. Yes the trend for MMOS recently is awfull and I do wonder if it is just a cynical release a game, get as much money as you can before folding. Sadly caused by the success of WOW making accountants greedy for some of their pie.
I think whoever has their fingers on the purse strings want WoW's success without actually putting in the necessary effort which deserves it. The funny thing is, WoW's standards aren't that high. They are just refined versions of what came before it. However, many recent MMOs cannot achieve THAT level of standard. Let alone anything greater.
I think it basically boils down to ignorance into just how much effort is required to hit that "WoW" standard. I'm not just talking about time. I'm talking about organisation of the project. Many seem to flounder around in alpha stages, not knowing which way to go, or they undergo and radical redesign which sets them back months. Or simply not enough time is given to the project.
In any case, the result is always the same: an MMO is released without the necessary fundamental and sufficient gameplay elements in place. And the customer suffers for it.
Anyhow, I digress, my personal concern is that STO will go the way of AOC and others:
There will be much speculation about what the devs are and are not going to implement.
Cue lots of "it will be ready when its ready" and "we may look at that in the future" posts by the devs, meanwhile interviews "suggest" many things but not much is confirmed that the customer doesn't already know.
Other than that the devs adhere to "mushroom method" of communication (keep the customers in the dark and feed them on ****).
And so, for the first 6 months, the customer is kept hanging on. Subscribing month after month in the vane hope of radical change that is never actually going to come. Meanwhile, more and more hit max level and ask "what do i do at endgame?"
Finally, any noticable gameplay changes that ARE implemented, after several months of waiting, summount to nothing more than a bug fixes, performance and content implementation which contains very basic gameplay, much like what we already have.
I'd love to be proven wrong, but I've learnt not to ignore the signs.
You're not the sharpest tool in the box are you.
Of course wow has more to offer, it's been in development and production for 10 years. STO... less than 2.
If you are going to troll, at least do it so you don't look like a total idiot.
Well, I really hate to defend WoW, but one thing they have done right is that they have released the game in a good state. There were a good 5 years of development in WoW pre release, and you really have seen that.
There was a big World, there were tons of quests and so on. It wasn't perfect, but even then its far better then those "1-2 Year development, not enough content, release anyway" games that come out nearly every month.
And this was not the first time cryptic did it, they did the same thing with CO. And I bet they will release there next mmo next year while STO isn't even nearly in good shape, like they did with CO.
Consider for a moment, that the replicator is basically like a computer containing a set of pre-programmed recipes e.g. Earl Grey Tea.
Crafting using a Replicator
Now, imagine that the same replicator ALSO has the facility to "learn" a new recipe that it doesn't already know. The new recipe would be stored on the ships replicator system but cannot be transferred to another players ship replicator (unless via a recipe). However, the recipe database can be transferred to a same players other ship (therefore allowing players to craft all the recipes at their disposal in any of their own ships).
The Recipes
Now, the recipe tells the replicator how to make the item, but it doesn't necessarily have all the materials it needs. So, add to this concept the possibility that a replicator may not actually be able to make EVERY known substance, but it CAN use materials that are provided to it. It can then break down the materials to be used in recipes but it cannot store the information about those materials for later use (thus players need to always provide materials that aren't in the replicators database).
Thus, you have a machine that takes a recipe and materials to create something that it wasn't previously programmed to make. Thus you now have the basis for a crafting system.
The concept is relatively simplistic and also adheres to canon. As someone else pointed out in another thread, certain episodes of the series had the crews "hacking" into the replicators to make items or to get it to do things that it wouldn't normally do. And the fact that the replicators have to be "modified" to do this stuff implies that possible variations can be made of the same item. Cue items of varying stats. Armour and weapons of different styles and configurations. There are many possibilities, IF the devs are prepared to work on it. And THAT is the big question.
I'll make it a bit more simple for the simple minded people. "Why This Game Failed" isn't about them closing the servers and halting all production on it. It failed because of how it was rushed into going live, and failed to deliver an actual mmo. It fails as a game. It fails as enjoyment. It fails as replay value. It fails at a lot of things. But go ahead, be cute, take it literally. Fail some more.
We get it. You don't like the game. However, you have yet to explain how it 'failed to deliver an actual MMO' or 'fails as a game' which is what I was asking in my previous post.
Check my suggestion out in my sig below, which details a rudimentary foundation for crafting using the replicator system.
Yes, replicators can make items out of thin air. But no one said they are programmed to make EVERYTHING in the universe. In other words, the replicator becomes a tool for crafting
EDIT: Heres the details:
Ya, I read it. Great idea there. To go along with it, have certain starbases have certain recipes. Using a certain recipe on a certain starbase X number of times allows you to learn that recipe. Or something like that.
Ya, I read it. Great idea there. To go along with it, have certain starbases have certain recipes. Using a certain recipe on a certain starbase X number of times allows you to learn that recipe. Or something like that.
Yep, many MMO's have demonstrated the various ways that in-depth crafting and harvesting mechanics can be introduced to create engaging gameplay. Crafting and harvesting are just like PVE and PVP, in that they all are fundamental facets of MMO's that people have come to expect in them. To miss any of them out is just stunting the potential attractiveness of the product.
Now, there could be recipes of different "grades" and rarity. And with each recipe, there is a potential for creating variation (SWG, EQ2 and Vanguard fans will know what I'm talking about here). The inclusion of certain combinations of "raw materials" could affect the outcome.
The "raw materials" could just be the very samples that we are already finding. Plus, the replicator could be used to "deconstruct" items to create small amounts of the more common materals. Thus giving the player a number of options.
1) They could "sell" the item to the replicator for energy credits.
2) Sell the item on the exchange.
3) Decontruct the item to use the resultant material in crafting a new item.
4) Deconstruct the item and sell the resultant material on the exchange for other crafters to purchase.
Personally I would also remove all the scannable samples from the empty exploration zones, and have separate local system instances with "minable" asteroid fields where the samples can be obtained and are patrolled by npcs. Thus implementing an element of risk when attempting to gather materials.
I agree the game could be better but I do enjoy playing STO That said However the game does need a D.P
of some sort as it stands now players can just die respawn die respawn ect ect till they complate the mission... that gets OLD real quick.
I do beleave STO will get better over time and I am willing to give it a few months to see if it does.
as for crifting I do agree with other players it needs to be a heck of a lot better then it is now maybe in time having it to where players can INVENT new Items Kits, ship hulls,( metel to make hulls with) wepons ect ect
One thing that could be done fairly soon would be where players could combine Borg and Klingon and Starfleet ships to make a whole new class of ships.... now that would be INTERESTING go around collecting different parts from other players in PvP and NPC ships in PvE that you have killed...:D
That in its self would be worth the monthly fee just to see what kind of ship you could make what it would look like and more importent of all what it could do
So in closeing I do hope Cryptic is listening and will take some of the best player Ideas and put them in to the game otherwise this game will have Faild
Here s something easy. If you dont liek it, dont play. Get off the boards and do something else. But sitting here screaming fail over and ove ris getting old.
the only fail I see is the crybabies sitting here telling us how bad a fail it is.Nut up or shut up I believe someone posted.
And as such the mindless drones like this post are what Cryptic hopes for to keep paying for the game.
I agree the game could be better but I do enjoy playing STO That said However the game does need a D.P
of some sort as it stands now players can just die respawn die respawn ect ect till they complate the mission... that gets OLD real quick.
I do beleave STO will get better over time and I am willing to give it a few months to see if it does.
as for crifting I do agree with other players it needs to be a heck of a lot better then it is now maybe in time having it to where players can INVENT new Items Kits, ship hulls,( metel to make hulls with) wepons ect ect
One thing that could be done fairly soon would be where players could combine Borg and Klingon and Starfleet ships to make a whole new class of ships.... now that would be INTERESTING go around collecting different parts from other players in PvP and NPC ships in PvE that you have killed...:D
That in its self would be worth the monthly fee just to see what kind of ship you could make what it would look like and more importent of all what it could do
So in closeing I do hope Cryptic is listening and will take some of the best player Ideas and put them in to the game otherwise this game will have Faild
A DP system can only be introduced once certain areas of the gameplay have been dealt with. For instance, the devs need to sort out the spawn point camping that the npcs do in the Deep Space Encounters. Plus the DP system needs to be balanced so as not to make it too cumbersome to recover but still make sure its effects are noticable. But let's not talk about that too much. The subject of a DP system can lead to riots in these forums right now.
Comments
People, when this game launched, there were only 87 quests (3 were added in a patch). You have one path on your way to the last level. Sure, there may be 3 different classes, but how different are they really? Each path you can use any type of ship, have the same exact BO's, ship equipment, and ground equipment. Not to mention, you do the same exact quests. The only difference are a few skills you get as you level up.
I understand that there are some who enjoy this game. When I first started playing in beta, I enjoyed it too. And to be honest, some of the missions I did enjoy. Playing through the first time is great. Some of you are experiencing that. However, once you've done it all, why subscribe? Besides doing the quests and getting to the last level, there is absolutely nothing else to do.
Now before some of you reply with stuff to do in the game, I'll answer some of them now.
All of you who are defending Cryptic, how many of you actually reached end game? How many of you actually did it all? I'm willing to bet most of you haven't reach Admiral yet. If thats the case, I was just like you. Understand that. The ones who agree with me now, are in the same boat. They've done it all. Apples and oranges.
I played both, AoC failed simply because of lack of gameplay and far too easy to get to the top levels, but had exquisit graphics. It was from the same stable as Anarchy Online ( my favorite MMO) which also had a desasterous launch. But I read the game is picking up and people are going back.
WAR well I liked it at first, but te developers starting to remove bits because they could not get it to work, just sucked and was the final straw.
But in both cases you cannot say they were a FAIL in the first 2 weeks, and te same with STO.
STO maybe will fail, but if you had given WOW 2 weeks only it would have failed too.
There is no way WoW could have failed in the first 2 weeks. Within 6 months, I still didn't do most of what the game had to offer. Sure, each patch they dumbed it down and made it too easy, so it got boring. But that was the beauty of WoW. You could go months and months, and still find new stuff to do.
This game doesn't offer that. 2 weeks, tops, and you've done it all. Now if Cryptic would have spent a bit more time on this game before going live, and have added 2 - 3 months worth of content, then we would have plenty to do while they worked on more content. Instead, we twiddle our thumbs and wait for the new content without having anything to do in the meantime.
OK I beleive your first mistake is playing Beta. I did the same on AOC and WAR. I had played much of the game before release so it became a bit samey to me. I now don't do betas and therefore about 4 weeks behind you.
This then raises the problem, I am not leveling fast, Again a problem I found in AoC when I got to 50 I sat on my own waiting for others.
Commercially the men in grey suits are demanding a game is released, so the development team often work on the start-game and hope to get to end-game in a patch or two. All games have really been like this.
Maybe what you should do is take a break for 2 or tree weeks while the majority of people slowly level and see what happens. Then if nothing has been done I will be the first to admit it failed.
Accountants .... I work in IT and they demand release as soon as possible. The whole business has had its heart sucked from it by the grey suited vampires.
No, it beta I paced myself. Learned about the game mainly rather than leveling up. I stopped at level 14. Spent the rest of beta submitting bugs and answering questions other people ingame asked.
I didn't rush to the last level in live either. I did the quests, and read every dialog. Leveling was just too quick. Besides, by the time I was 25 or so, there were already hundreds of Admirals. Not enough players at endgame isn't a problem, since there are plenty. Stuff to do at endgame however, is the problem.
I just hard to let you get away with STO is a FAIL at the moment, there are many like me who enjoy doing the quests maybe one or two a week and slowly levelling up. (we have to work).
Yes I am sorry to hear there is no endgame, but I think a little patience isn't a bad thing and hopefully it will come. but if like WAR it wasnt there after 6 months then I will help you type FAIL>
You and I both played AOC, that we agree. Now, look at the state that AOC was in at launch and compare it to now. Is there really that much of a difference in gameplay? Nope. Why?
1) Massive content gaps in the leveling process. Consequently, whilst the implementation of content to cover such gaps was being worked on. Everything else had to be put on the back burner. They claimed that they were "listening to the players" by implementing Ymirs Pass. That didn't need them to listen to the players. That gaps were blatantly obvious at launch. That fact that such massive level gaps shouldn't exist at launch alone set the game content development back at least 10 months.
2) PVP: was kept to the battlegrounds, had massive problems and is basically an FFA gank fest. "Massive" pvp failed to do what it was hyped up to do and was buggy as hell for 18 months. As far as I know, they've yet to re-implement openworld meaningful pvp.
3) World design: zones that are mainly not even connected to one another being accessed by npcs who acted as the trigger to switch zones. Awful idea. Unfortunately, its taken until the expansion to veer away from that issue. However it still remains in the original game.
4) End game group content: Whilst raiders where screaming for Tier 2 content (because Tier 1 was either bugged to hell or easy as pie), solo'ers and group'ers were screaming for their content. The issues concerning itemisation and pvp pushed any content back to the point whereby people lost faith. So by the time it had been implemented, it was no longer needed because people had already either left or they had found the raids easy enough to get raid gear instead. Consequently the raid gear far outstripped any new end game "blue" gear that was put in as rewards.
5) Re-itemisation: Was poorly implmemented and took way to too long come into the game. It failed to make the player feel that they were actually progressing when they obtained new raid items after they had their Tier 1 items. It was all an illusion. FC kept too much of a strangle hold on the "power" of items and thus people felt that T2 was a waste of time given the measily potency increase.
Now, aside from the "combo system", which incidentally was only implemented for the melee classes and thus the casters felt a little left out, the rest of the gameplay beyond level 20 felt decidedly under-developed. Sure, they had the zones, but there was little depth. Crafting and harvesting systems are no better than WoW, and in some cases worse. Once again another company who fail to consider how crafting / harvesting and the economy are interwoven and can help create a more in-depth game world.
Unlike WoW, EQ2 and those before them, many of the later MMO's fail to provide a fuller enriched, and above all, polished MMO experience. If the likes of SOE and Blizzard can attempt it, why are so many other companies reluctant or are unable to? Is it time? Resources? Money? If so, why are they always trying to "cut corners" and ultimately end up looking worse for it?
They focus in a small number of areas hoping to god that these little features like public quests or a melee combo system would pull the game through. They failed to grasp the concept that such features are basically rendered moot if the rest of the game generally doesn't live up to standard.
That is a pretty good way of saying "Ok after 6 months when they have screwed you out of your hard earned money then quit" Seriously you would pay 6 months worth of monthly fee's waiting for stuff that should have been there already? Pay for something that does not even work right half the time? Wow, I got an idea I just wrote a book but only the first chapter is done, I will get the next chapter to you in a few months but I want all the money up front.
And before you guys ramble on about how MMO's are not completed when they release you are full of it, that is what expansions are for, patches are for fixing not adding end game content. Face it they released an incomplete game and expect you to wait for the end game content that should have been in already.
the concept though was fantastic, shame Funcom couldnt deliver.
I completely agree with you. And now you understand why people are concerned about STO. Yes, such concerns MAY be unwarranted. But when you look at the history of other MMO's, you cannot help but notice the similarities and trends that occur just before, on and just after launch.
I REALLY hope for all our sakes that Cryptic have plans to re-vitalise game. But I'm also a realist, and I know that if it hasn't been done already, they either are incapable of doing what is needed in a reasonable time frame, or have no intentions of doing what is needed.
Either way, people are not willing to waste money and time on the "hope" that it will change. They need to be given assurances and an ETA. Otherwise they will vote with their wallets and begin to look at the competition, perhaps in a more favourable light.
Like I've said before: its easier AND cheaper to keep an existing customer happy, than it is to lose them and try to get them back.
All I say is you cannot shout fail after 2 weeks. and you dont ave to pay subs you can leave and come back.
I disagree with one thing.. Patches in an MMO are not about game fixes, they are about game progression. Thats how they add in events and change some of the rules. even WOW does this with its events.
The reason I say give it time is simple, back in the 80s and 90s IT was great, we could take our time, do things properly and deliver wat our users wanted. Now we live in a world of accountants who want income NOW and are willing to off-shore all work to Asia where they pay peanuts for prgrammers who look up their code from google.
Yep, it is a shame that the world is as such. However, even Accountants must realise that you can only shave off so much from "tolerance factors" and "margins" before you begin to seriously impede the performance of the product. Do it too much and the product no longer resembles what the customer wanted in the first place.
This is one reason I dont like such early fail posts, if people leave then it is certain te game dies and te concept with it. Yes the trend for MMOS recently is awfull and I do wonder if it is just a cynical release a game, get as much money as you can before folding. Sadly caused by the success of WOW making accountants greedy for some of their pie.
LOL ... Work in IT now, you will find loads of managers and NO programmers. Those that earn the money are ripping companies apart, just look at EDS and how it was eaten by HP, yet HP made 20,000 developers redundant from the old EDS. so who does the work now?
I completely disagree patches are certainly not meant to complete a product after its been released that a finished product should have had from the start. World of Warcraft may have added content on a small bases but most of the end game content was already there its not like they added a bunch of instances after the game was finished and everyone was sitting around at level 60 asking "wheres the end game" which is currently what is happening here.
As for giving them time, I am truly sorry that is exactly what an alpha and beta are for they have had years to test this but I think many will agree with me, if this is the best they can do after 3+ years they need another 2 yrs to fix it.
I think whoever has their fingers on the purse strings want WoW's success without actually putting in the necessary effort which deserves it. The funny thing is, WoW's standards aren't that high. They are just refined versions of what came before it. However, many recent MMOs cannot achieve THAT level of standard. Let alone anything greater.
I think it basically boils down to ignorance into just how much effort is required to hit that "WoW" standard. I'm not just talking about time. I'm talking about organisation of the project. Many seem to flounder around in alpha stages, not knowing which way to go, or they undergo and radical redesign which sets them back months. Or simply not enough time is given to the project.
In any case, the result is always the same: an MMO is released without the necessary fundamental and sufficient gameplay elements in place. And the customer suffers for it.
- There will be much speculation about what the devs are and are not going to implement.
- Cue lots of "it will be ready when its ready" and "we may look at that in the future" posts by the devs, meanwhile interviews "suggest" many things but not much is confirmed that the customer doesn't already know.
- Other than that the devs adhere to "mushroom method" of communication (keep the customers in the dark and feed them on ****).
- And so, for the first 6 months, the customer is kept hanging on. Subscribing month after month in the vane hope of radical change that is never actually going to come. Meanwhile, more and more hit max level and ask "what do i do at endgame?"
- Finally, any noticable gameplay changes that ARE implemented, after several months of waiting, summount to nothing more than a bug fixes, performance and content implementation which contains very basic gameplay, much like what we already have.
I'd love to be proven wrong, but I've learnt not to ignore the signs.Well, I really hate to defend WoW, but one thing they have done right is that they have released the game in a good state. There were a good 5 years of development in WoW pre release, and you really have seen that.
There was a big World, there were tons of quests and so on. It wasn't perfect, but even then its far better then those "1-2 Year development, not enough content, release anyway" games that come out nearly every month.
And this was not the first time cryptic did it, they did the same thing with CO. And I bet they will release there next mmo next year while STO isn't even nearly in good shape, like they did with CO.
Check my suggestion out in my sig below, which details a rudimentary foundation for crafting using the replicator system.
Yes, replicators can make items out of thin air. But no one said they are programmed to make EVERYTHING in the universe.
EDIT: Heres the details:
The concept is relatively simplistic and also adheres to canon. As someone else pointed out in another thread, certain episodes of the series had the crews "hacking" into the replicators to make items or to get it to do things that it wouldn't normally do. And the fact that the replicators have to be "modified" to do this stuff implies that possible variations can be made of the same item. Cue items of varying stats. Armour and weapons of different styles and configurations. There are many possibilities, IF the devs are prepared to work on it. And THAT is the big question.
We get it. You don't like the game. However, you have yet to explain how it 'failed to deliver an actual MMO' or 'fails as a game' which is what I was asking in my previous post.
Care to support your statement?
Ya, I read it. Great idea there. To go along with it, have certain starbases have certain recipes. Using a certain recipe on a certain starbase X number of times allows you to learn that recipe. Or something like that.
Yep, many MMO's have demonstrated the various ways that in-depth crafting and harvesting mechanics can be introduced to create engaging gameplay. Crafting and harvesting are just like PVE and PVP, in that they all are fundamental facets of MMO's that people have come to expect in them. To miss any of them out is just stunting the potential attractiveness of the product.
Now, there could be recipes of different "grades" and rarity. And with each recipe, there is a potential for creating variation (SWG, EQ2 and Vanguard fans will know what I'm talking about here). The inclusion of certain combinations of "raw materials" could affect the outcome.
The "raw materials" could just be the very samples that we are already finding. Plus, the replicator could be used to "deconstruct" items to create small amounts of the more common materals. Thus giving the player a number of options.
1) They could "sell" the item to the replicator for energy credits.
2) Sell the item on the exchange.
3) Decontruct the item to use the resultant material in crafting a new item.
4) Deconstruct the item and sell the resultant material on the exchange for other crafters to purchase.
Personally I would also remove all the scannable samples from the empty exploration zones, and have separate local system instances with "minable" asteroid fields where the samples can be obtained and are patrolled by npcs. Thus implementing an element of risk when attempting to gather materials.
of some sort as it stands now players can just die respawn die respawn ect ect till they complate the mission... that gets OLD real quick.
I do beleave STO will get better over time and I am willing to give it a few months to see if it does.
as for crifting I do agree with other players it needs to be a heck of a lot better then it is now maybe in time having it to where players can INVENT new Items Kits, ship hulls,( metel to make hulls with) wepons ect ect
One thing that could be done fairly soon would be where players could combine Borg and Klingon and Starfleet ships to make a whole new class of ships.... now that would be INTERESTING go around collecting different parts from other players in PvP and NPC ships in PvE that you have killed...:D
That in its self would be worth the monthly fee just to see what kind of ship you could make what it would look like and more importent of all what it could do
So in closeing I do hope Cryptic is listening and will take some of the best player Ideas and put them in to the game otherwise this game will have Faild
And as such the mindless drones like this post are what Cryptic hopes for to keep paying for the game.
A DP system can only be introduced once certain areas of the gameplay have been dealt with. For instance, the devs need to sort out the spawn point camping that the npcs do in the Deep Space Encounters. Plus the DP system needs to be balanced so as not to make it too cumbersome to recover but still make sure its effects are noticable. But let's not talk about that too much. The subject of a DP system can lead to riots in these forums right now.
Ad hominem attack. Ceilican loses the moral high ground as penalty.
Your move, sir.