They have seen what keeps people in WoW so why not design a game employing those factors?
You know ... not to belittle your point, but I think this is the wrong approach. Why? Because this is how the entire entertainment industry is approaching this issue. I'm 40 years old and already the movie industry is remaking the movies I saw as a teen. Musicians are remaking the songs I listened to as a teen. That makes for boring entertainment. I don't want STO to be a remake of WoW, just set in space.
I think Cryptic was trying to do something a little bit different and became somewhat over-ambitious. I think the fundamentals of the game are solid. It's the details that need worked out.
For all of the comparisons to WoW, I sometimes think the WoW players suffer from amnesia.
Sure, WoW has 6,000 quests, but how many of them are truly unique? I think we all know the drill:
"We are running low on provisions. Can you bring me 10 boar meats?"
"Wolves are prowling dangerously close to the village. Can you thin the pack?"
"Thank you for freeing me. Can you escort me home?"
"I dropped my necklace running away from Murlocks. Can you find it for me?"
"I'm making a pie. Can you pick 10 berries for me?"
"We think the orcs are being organized by a leader. Go kill him!"
You just change around the mob types and numbers that need killed or items to be collected, but it's just as repetitive as any other MMO, including this one. Let's not forget the endless hours of resource farming, faction grinding, and running the same instance 50 times to get that item that increases a few of your stats by 2 or 3 points. It's as though people have forgotten all about that.
8 more days and you will see the biggest spike in PvP queue times and your friends list a barren waste-land
honestly I don't see a huge turn-out for month 2
Cudo's for trying - I can see that Crytpic seems to be trying to rush 2 years of content and listening to customer feedback, but they aren't God's. It will take too long and the customer base just won't be there to support them. Maybe just the 2% of you who make up the 5% who read the forums and actually want to keep playing...
Calling this crafting is like calling a power wheels a car. While it might have some of the form, it has none of the function. Not to mention having to perform a certain amount of "crafting" with one person (when it's really just an advanced form of buying) in order for the others to talk to you.... JOKE.
I'm a lifetime member, and I didn't realize until these threads that there WAS crafting in STO.. despite having BEEN to Mem Alpha, and having "crafted" items. I just saw it as buying. With unique currency.
HOWEVER
The game's content is roughly analogous to just about every other MMO out there. Face it, WoW, the top dog in MMO's, is no more imaginative, they just word doing the same thing differently. And they did it a coupld hundred times more times. MMO's in general have to have somewhat limited interactinos because of the capabilities of the engine to handle so many people doing so much.
I didn't realize until these threads that there WAS crafting in STO.. despite having BEEN to Mem Alpha, and having "crafted" items. I just saw it as buying. With unique currency.
Best crafting is SWG, hands down. The crafting system is so elaborate, there are 4 classes dedicated to only crafting. The collection of resources, crafting system, buying and selling of wares, the crafting community, it's like a game in itself. Hell, just the crafting part of SWG has more content than this game.
you make some good points here. i see two major faults with MMOs in general. the first problem seems to be nowadays that, due to so much competition in the MMO world, the financial support for these MMO's demand that the game be released when they say. these financial dogs are not interested in waiting another 3 or 6 months, or maybe a year to polish the game more, they demand a return on their investment in bulk when they think the public has the highest interest, not caring that they would most likely get more income back in the long term, had they waited another 6 months or whatever til release. secondly, best thing an MMO can do IMO is to release as little info as possible to the public about what races, cities etc etc will be in at launch, until they are undoubtedly certain. we know only too well that Mythic declared a starting city for each faction in WAR, which would have made six in total ... yet got only two at launch. several classes were alsomissing from launch as they had promised etc. lastly, your always going to get bugs at the launch of any MMO, regardless of how long you spend polishing the game. and for these people who moan constantly, in future, dont buy the MMO til its 2 or 3 months old until the basic bugs are ironed out. your always going to get server crashes and maintenance needed often at the start.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that a successful single player game manufacturer has more advantages on their side than disadvantages in comparison to an MMO developer.
Yes a single player game developer hasn't got the "mmo experience" that comes with launching an mmo (such as loot issues, server capacity, client/server performance, etc, etc), however these days such issues pail into comparison to the CORE gameplay issues that plague many mmos such as:
Having enough content for all the level ranges
Having enough level ranges in order to promote a game that has "value for money" and a subscription.
Being able to implement all the fundamental MMO features that a customer expects in an MMO to a sufficient level of quality that appeal to many.
Being able to develop a game engine that has reasonably good performance from the outset.
If you look closely, you don't have to be an MMO developer to get these things right. Blizzard showed this. The developer just has to TRUELY know what appeals to their target audience and make sure that is enough in comparison to the MMO industry competitors. Bioware have a chance of following in the footsteps of Blizzard on this score. However, that is no guarantee. Just look at Richard Garriott and Brad McQuaid for examples of big names that HAD good titles, but messed it up with their last ones.
And so, given that a successful single player game developer (lets face it, theres a few of them about) already has the money AND experience of making successful games that are aimed at a specific niche, maybe the fate of the MMO industry lies in their hands.
Maybe its time for the like of the following to stand up and take the MMO industry to the next level:
Rockstar North (imagine the freedom of GTA in an MMO)
Valve (imagine the Half Life atmosphere in an MMO
Take2 (imagine the Thief gameplay in an MMO)
These are just a handful of crude examples. I'm not by any means suggesting that they are guaranteed to make a good MMO (after all EA failed with the Sims). However, maybe they have a better chance, than many "startup" MMO companies because they of their own generated capital and previous experience.
You know, one of the biggest problems with the 'Oh, I got to level 50 and there isn't anything else to do' argument is that you obviously spent a good chunk of your time playing the game. I'm not talking about just the time you set aside to play games, I'm saying you spent a good percentage of your total time during the day every day playing the game.
I've been in the game since launch. I'm LTC 7, soon to be 8. I space my time out so that I'm not rushing it. I play the game for an hour or two every night, sometimes less, sometimes more. I'm content with the knowledge that the quests aren't going anywhere, nor am I in a big competition to make high ranks faster than anyone else.
Of COURSE you're going to hit the end of the content if you play heavily. This is a new release, so the game has only gotten so far. If you slow your pace down, you'll find you have a lot of "new" stuff to see (I use the quotations because, as so many people have stated, it's all basically the same with different models and backgrounds), and the game's interest won't dissolve so quickly.
Now, if it's a few months from now and there still isn't any new content, then yes, start complaining if you've reached the end by then.
This is my way of playing any, save one, MMO I've ever been involved in. The only exception was World War 2 Online, where it was totally pvp and the more warm bodies with an ounce of skill at the game there was fighting for your side, the better the chance that your side would win...or at least put up a good fight and slow down the victory of the other side.
sure there are lots of things that needs work and changes that should be made. But the game just started so saying its a failure is premature. If the problems they do have, many you mensioned in your post, are not dealt with one way or other than yes the game will fail but i think cyrptic has done pretty good so far. The customization is great. While the ways in which you complete the quests is limitid and repetative the same could be said for lots of mmo games, something to work on but thats why the have updates. Keep the faith! At least for the time being
You are right, they have not failed. This is plenty of game for Trekkies and the alike. Lets just say they failed at bringing it strong. Which being the time this game was released with the current competition out there and on the horizon, that needed to be very very strong. Sadly, you only get so many chances to make a first impression.
You know, one of the biggest problems with the 'Oh, I got to level 50 and there isn't anything else to do' argument is that you obviously spent a good chunk of your time playing the game. I'm not talking about just the time you set aside to play games, I'm saying you spent a good percentage of your total time during the day every day playing the game.
I've been in the game since launch. I'm LTC 7, soon to be 8. I space my time out so that I'm not rushing it. I play the game for an hour or two every night, sometimes less, sometimes more. I'm content with the knowledge that the quests aren't going anywhere, nor am I in a big competition to make high ranks faster than anyone else.
Of COURSE you're going to hit the end of the content if you play heavily. This is a new release, so the game has only gotten so far. If you slow your pace down, you'll find you have a lot of "new" stuff to see (I use the quotations because, as so many people have stated, it's all basically the same with different models and backgrounds), and the game's interest won't dissolve so quickly.
Now, if it's a few months from now and there still isn't any new content, then yes, start complaining if you've reached the end by then.
This is my way of playing any, save one, MMO I've ever been involved in. The only exception was World War 2 Online, where it was totally pvp and the more warm bodies with an ounce of skill at the game there was fighting for your side, the better the chance that your side would win...or at least put up a good fight and slow down the victory of the other side.
Well this is your way of playing, and on the box it clearly states in caps, PLAY THE WAY YOU WANT. so really your point is going against cryptics prime directive.
Well this is your way of playing, and on the box it clearly states in caps, PLAY THE WAY YOU WANT. so really your point is going against cryptics prime directive.
No, my point is that people are whining when it's their own damn fault they have nothing left to do.
No, my point is that people are whining when it's their own damn fault they have nothing left to do.
right, its their fault they have noting to do. That makes so much since, they need us to write mission scipts for them. They forgot to add the game engine compilers and scripts in the game purchace. Maybe they will do that on the next state of the game. Since we are already not getting paid to give them game ideas.
This game is about as expensive as WoW but doesn't even come close to what WoW has to offer even in the starting region of the humans (forgot what it was called, sorry... played only one human character, after that I had a nightelf and a draenei).
This game has about half the content of ONE Wow newbie area.
I desperately wanted to love this game because of the Star Trek IP, but sadly it isn't possible.
IMO because of the instanced server and solo only content, it will never evolve into a community. Which for me is what I look for in an MMO.
You are right, they have not failed. This is plenty of game for Trekkies and the alike. Lets just say they failed at bringing it strong. Which being the time this game was released with the current competition out there and on the horizon, that needed to be very very strong. Sadly, you only get so many chances to make a first impression.
Sorry but WHAT competition does this game really have ? . Apart from eve which is a joke and only for hard core grifers. What other star trek mmo or even space based mmo IS there thats out NOW? The only thing on the horizon thats could in anyway compete with this is the star wars one and if you think thats going to be any better then I have a bridge and some nice swamp I mean prime real estate to sell you
This game has about half the content of ONE Wow newbie area.
I desperately wanted to love this game because of the Star Trek IP, but sadly it isn't possible.
IMO because of the instanced server and solo only content, it will never evolve into a community. Which for me is what I look for in an MMO.
This game has about half the content of ONE Wow newbie area.
I desperately wanted to love this game because of the Star Trek IP, but sadly it isn't possible.
IMO because of the instanced server and solo only content, it will never evolve into a community. Which for me is what I look for in an MMO.
Hey, anyone know when SWTOR's launching?
So what if wow has 2890864209568906 quests they are ALL THE SAME. Go to point A and kill X of Y Is'nt that just SO intresting.................NOT. Instancing and solo combat don't mean you can't get a community. Look at Guild Wars has a great community and its even more instanced than STO. Honestly I have'nt seen more epic fail posts on a mmo forum since I left wow.
You can do the fleet actions solo? Heh, g'luck with the CE or the Borg. Anyways, if you don't want to play the game that's your business. However, declaring that anything is a failure because YOU PERSONALLY don't like it is somewhat....arrogant...wouldn't you say? After all, nothing in this world lives or dies upon YOUR say so; you are not the emperor.
So, even though you dislike this game, it's hardly a failure because many other people DO like it. Sadly, the world doesn't revolve around you. I know, it's a shock to learn this, but 'tis true, 'tis true.
The CE is easier solo than with a team that you can't choose. (Seriously, a released game without the option of a fleet only instance? Come on...)
The CE is easier solo than with a team that you can't choose. (Seriously, a released game without the option of a fleet only instance? Come on...)
Umm...except that its non-crystal related regen wipes out any chance of weapons actually hurting it enough to kill it.
But I do agree they need to make it fleet only; it's annoying to see it get down to an extremely low percentage only to watch it jump back up to near full health when people come in, don't read the briefing, and start shooting crystals.
I think that everyone needs to take a step back, take a deep breath and start again. The OP has some valid poitns, but they are nothing that hasnt been disscussed before and been disscussed to death. We all know that content is thin on the ground in STO, but the schedule that they were given for the games release was rediculously small. They only had 2 years of development time to come up with the actual game.
Most MMOs take atleast double that to be complete. Cryptic did the best they could with the time they had. I think that CBS had lost patience when Perpetual went under along with all the work they had done...so gave Cryptic a stupidly small deadline to meet. It will get better, we all know it will even if we wont admit it, but not everyone will be pleased with what is added and what is changed, simple fact of life there for you.
As to WoW having more content on launch and having more content in the newbie areas than in the whole of STO. Well, firstly look at what I said above, Cryptic put as much content into the game as they could as they rushed to meet a deadline imposed upon them. STO hasnt been out but a month either, so what were you expecting? The whole of the Star Trek Universe ready laid out for you? Every race playable? Every cannon system visitable?
Doesnt work like that kiddies. WoW has had 10 years for the game to be expanded on, further developed and content added. And it still sucks. Its a Korean MMO grind fest of a game...even more so than STO...even more so than RF Online. Come back in a year and I guarantee you that STO will be a whole different animal. I bet in 6 months it will have changed dramatically. We just have to give it time and our support in order for it to get better.
Comments
You know ... not to belittle your point, but I think this is the wrong approach. Why? Because this is how the entire entertainment industry is approaching this issue. I'm 40 years old and already the movie industry is remaking the movies I saw as a teen. Musicians are remaking the songs I listened to as a teen. That makes for boring entertainment. I don't want STO to be a remake of WoW, just set in space.
I think Cryptic was trying to do something a little bit different and became somewhat over-ambitious. I think the fundamentals of the game are solid. It's the details that need worked out.
For all of the comparisons to WoW, I sometimes think the WoW players suffer from amnesia.
Sure, WoW has 6,000 quests, but how many of them are truly unique? I think we all know the drill:
"We are running low on provisions. Can you bring me 10 boar meats?"
"Wolves are prowling dangerously close to the village. Can you thin the pack?"
"Thank you for freeing me. Can you escort me home?"
"I dropped my necklace running away from Murlocks. Can you find it for me?"
"I'm making a pie. Can you pick 10 berries for me?"
"We think the orcs are being organized by a leader. Go kill him!"
You just change around the mob types and numbers that need killed or items to be collected, but it's just as repetitive as any other MMO, including this one. Let's not forget the endless hours of resource farming, faction grinding, and running the same instance 50 times to get that item that increases a few of your stats by 2 or 3 points. It's as though people have forgotten all about that.
honestly I don't see a huge turn-out for month 2
Cudo's for trying - I can see that Crytpic seems to be trying to rush 2 years of content and listening to customer feedback, but they aren't God's. It will take too long and the customer base just won't be there to support them. Maybe just the 2% of you who make up the 5% who read the forums and actually want to keep playing...
Calling this crafting is like calling a power wheels a car. While it might have some of the form, it has none of the function. Not to mention having to perform a certain amount of "crafting" with one person (when it's really just an advanced form of buying) in order for the others to talk to you.... JOKE.
I'm a lifetime member, and I didn't realize until these threads that there WAS crafting in STO.. despite having BEEN to Mem Alpha, and having "crafted" items. I just saw it as buying. With unique currency.
HOWEVER
The game's content is roughly analogous to just about every other MMO out there. Face it, WoW, the top dog in MMO's, is no more imaginative, they just word doing the same thing differently. And they did it a coupld hundred times more times. MMO's in general have to have somewhat limited interactinos because of the capabilities of the engine to handle so many people doing so much.
LOL!
Trust me I'm not laughing at you but with you
Let me join in. :rolleyes:
Btw, try crafting in RoM. The crafting system in RoM is really good.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that a successful single player game manufacturer has more advantages on their side than disadvantages in comparison to an MMO developer.
Yes a single player game developer hasn't got the "mmo experience" that comes with launching an mmo (such as loot issues, server capacity, client/server performance, etc, etc), however these days such issues pail into comparison to the CORE gameplay issues that plague many mmos such as:
- Having enough content for all the level ranges
- Having enough level ranges in order to promote a game that has "value for money" and a subscription.
- Being able to implement all the fundamental MMO features that a customer expects in an MMO to a sufficient level of quality that appeal to many.
- Being able to develop a game engine that has reasonably good performance from the outset.
If you look closely, you don't have to be an MMO developer to get these things right. Blizzard showed this. The developer just has to TRUELY know what appeals to their target audience and make sure that is enough in comparison to the MMO industry competitors. Bioware have a chance of following in the footsteps of Blizzard on this score. However, that is no guarantee. Just look at Richard Garriott and Brad McQuaid for examples of big names that HAD good titles, but messed it up with their last ones.And so, given that a successful single player game developer (lets face it, theres a few of them about) already has the money AND experience of making successful games that are aimed at a specific niche, maybe the fate of the MMO industry lies in their hands.
Maybe its time for the like of the following to stand up and take the MMO industry to the next level:
- Rockstar North (imagine the freedom of GTA in an MMO)
- Valve (imagine the Half Life atmosphere in an MMO
- Take2 (imagine the Thief gameplay in an MMO)
These are just a handful of crude examples. I'm not by any means suggesting that they are guaranteed to make a good MMO (after all EA failed with the Sims). However, maybe they have a better chance, than many "startup" MMO companies because they of their own generated capital and previous experience.Dental action, the poll, the promises of DP and skill point reset...
I just changed my status from "run away" to "wait and see".
Thank cryptic for small favors!
:eek:
That hurts.
I've been in the game since launch. I'm LTC 7, soon to be 8. I space my time out so that I'm not rushing it. I play the game for an hour or two every night, sometimes less, sometimes more. I'm content with the knowledge that the quests aren't going anywhere, nor am I in a big competition to make high ranks faster than anyone else.
Of COURSE you're going to hit the end of the content if you play heavily. This is a new release, so the game has only gotten so far. If you slow your pace down, you'll find you have a lot of "new" stuff to see (I use the quotations because, as so many people have stated, it's all basically the same with different models and backgrounds), and the game's interest won't dissolve so quickly.
Now, if it's a few months from now and there still isn't any new content, then yes, start complaining if you've reached the end by then.
This is my way of playing any, save one, MMO I've ever been involved in. The only exception was World War 2 Online, where it was totally pvp and the more warm bodies with an ounce of skill at the game there was fighting for your side, the better the chance that your side would win...or at least put up a good fight and slow down the victory of the other side.
I think the main problem with that argument is that the level cap is 45.
Well this is your way of playing, and on the box it clearly states in caps, PLAY THE WAY YOU WANT. so really your point is going against cryptics prime directive.
No, my point is that people are whining when it's their own damn fault they have nothing left to do.
right, its their fault they have noting to do. That makes so much since, they need us to write mission scipts for them. They forgot to add the game engine compilers and scripts in the game purchace. Maybe they will do that on the next state of the game. Since we are already not getting paid to give them game ideas.
This thread however, is fail.
Yep it is. Do you see anywhere on the box where it says that the game is complete? Or that you will have unlimited amount of game play fun?
This game has about half the content of ONE Wow newbie area.
I desperately wanted to love this game because of the Star Trek IP, but sadly it isn't possible.
IMO because of the instanced server and solo only content, it will never evolve into a community. Which for me is what I look for in an MMO.
Hey, anyone know when SWTOR's launching?
See whut I did thar?
Sorry but WHAT competition does this game really have ? . Apart from eve which is a joke and only for hard core grifers. What other star trek mmo or even space based mmo IS there thats out NOW? The only thing on the horizon thats could in anyway compete with this is the star wars one and if you think thats going to be any better then I have a bridge and some nice swamp I mean prime real estate to sell you
Exaggerate much?
So what if wow has 2890864209568906 quests they are ALL THE SAME. Go to point A and kill X of Y Is'nt that just SO intresting.................NOT. Instancing and solo combat don't mean you can't get a community. Look at Guild Wars has a great community and its even more instanced than STO. Honestly I have'nt seen more epic fail posts on a mmo forum since I left wow.
The CE is easier solo than with a team that you can't choose. (Seriously, a released game without the option of a fleet only instance? Come on...)
Umm...except that its non-crystal related regen wipes out any chance of weapons actually hurting it enough to kill it.
But I do agree they need to make it fleet only; it's annoying to see it get down to an extremely low percentage only to watch it jump back up to near full health when people come in, don't read the briefing, and start shooting crystals.
I think the game just got better, How about that
Most MMOs take atleast double that to be complete. Cryptic did the best they could with the time they had. I think that CBS had lost patience when Perpetual went under along with all the work they had done...so gave Cryptic a stupidly small deadline to meet. It will get better, we all know it will even if we wont admit it, but not everyone will be pleased with what is added and what is changed, simple fact of life there for you.
As to WoW having more content on launch and having more content in the newbie areas than in the whole of STO. Well, firstly look at what I said above, Cryptic put as much content into the game as they could as they rushed to meet a deadline imposed upon them. STO hasnt been out but a month either, so what were you expecting? The whole of the Star Trek Universe ready laid out for you? Every race playable? Every cannon system visitable?
Doesnt work like that kiddies. WoW has had 10 years for the game to be expanded on, further developed and content added. And it still sucks. Its a Korean MMO grind fest of a game...even more so than STO...even more so than RF Online. Come back in a year and I guarantee you that STO will be a whole different animal. I bet in 6 months it will have changed dramatically. We just have to give it time and our support in order for it to get better.