Technically true but neither zone was complete. There was no loot and the zone would crash constantly until the first patch, which I think was a couple of weeks after release IIRC.
Yes, and there was no actual raid content in the game. It was either Scholo or Strat that was the first "end game" dungeon, and it too had no loot table. There were even zones that were unfinished and no point to PvP. WoW was barely worth playing until about 6 months in.
I think people forget that almost every MMO launches this way with the goal to be a smooth leveling experience. The people who rush to the end and come to the forums to whine are the minority. I personally would rather an immersive leveling experience than a dash to the end to farm the same thing over and over again.
I believe WoW had Scholomance, Stratholme and Blackrock Spire (lower and upper) up at launch, as well as Molten Core and Onyxia's Lair... the last of which, most people hadn't even stepped into by the time they added Dire Maul and Black Wing Lair.. heck, I wasn't even level 60 by the time they added BWL...
So... that makes cryptic's approach less than satisfying on two accounts:
1) speed of getting to max level is too short.
2) there's nothing to do when you get there.... yet.
Onyxia and Molten core werent up at launch, Dire Maul and Black Wing werent added until months later. Blackrock, Strath and Scholo were the only thing available when I hit 60.
Onyxia and Molten core werent up at launch, Dire Maul and Black Wing werent added until months later. Blackrock, Strath and Scholo were the only thing available when I hit 60.
See the Wiki entry. Ony and MC where there, they just were incomplete and crashed upon entry. They were basically placeholders. BR, Strath and Scholo were added in later and were also the first ones I stepped into, though I remember BR being a 15 man instance.
SWG also launched missing a major piece of content that was right on the box, space combat. That wasnt introduced until a year later. I also disagree with the people who say raiders are the "backbone" of an mmo. They are simply the ones who spend the most time playing. I feel that the casual to hardcore leaning people make up the real backbone of an MMO. It is just the hardcore players that are the loudest.
Onyxia and Molten core werent up at launch, Dire Maul and Black Wing werent added until months later. Blackrock, Strath and Scholo were the only thing available when I hit 60.
Again, this is wrong, both raid instances (MC, Onyxia) were in the game, in beta there was an NPC that was giving away Onyxia keys so the players could actually test the encounter. Both raids were buggy, unstable at launch, but they were there. I think the 1.2.0 patch in December 2004 fixed the issues, but I can't remember for certain.
Anyway, if you doubt my word, check out wowwiki, Onyxia's Lair (Original).
I'm now too lazy to link it all the time somebody makes the unqualified statement that there were no raid content in WoW.
Onyxia and Molten core werent up at launch, Dire Maul and Black Wing werent added until months later. Blackrock, Strath and Scholo were the only thing available when I hit 60.
BRS Strath and Scholo was the end game at the time tho...
That kept us plenty busy untill MC came out which was imo one of the best raid instances I have yet to enjoy.
Another lesson is don't underestimate your player base and put out enough content to last only a week.
There is enough content to last at least several weeks or month(s) for the average person playing this game. I've played a fair amount, but I didn't rush. I took time to do fleet encounters, pvp, do missions and explore; basically I had a good time along the way.
I hit commander last night, many people are around my level now, some slightly higher in level, some slightly lower. What exactly was the rush to Admiral?
I guess for now your content is to make an alt and level him, perhaps this time take time to see the game and resist the urge to rush?
In principle, I agree with you, there should be something to do at endgame, if memory serves WOW did not have any raid content at release, that was added at their first 1.1 content patch. There were however a few 5 & 10 man instances there to keep the masses entertained. Cryptic should probably make it a goal to get something in pretty quick.
Onyxia and Molten core werent up at launch, Dire Maul and Black Wing werent added until months later. Blackrock, Strath and Scholo were the only thing available when I hit 60.
I also disagree with the people who say raiders are the "backbone" of an mmo. They are simply the ones who spend the most time playing. I feel that the casual to hardcore leaning people make up the real backbone of an MMO. It is just the hardcore players that are the loudest.
That's because the hardcore players are the ones that are only there for the endgame content that casual players will never see. Bottom line with an MMO though: There is no way to please every single player. Too many varieties of playstyle. End of story. End game content may not be here today, but I doubt that you'll quit playing the game because of it not being there now. As was said by another poster, WoW didn't have end game content *functioning* until 6 months in...and they have 12 million players now...
On a final note, spare me the "It's a new MMO and shouldn't have endgame yet" because those are the words of a blind sheep and have no real bearing in logical discussion.
I found this illogical. I would also say that if I was a developer, you've personally lost influence points. So many other games have started with the endgame to come. It's not entirely uncommon.
You do see that they were patched in and not on release ?, sure they may have been there but incomplete, no loot and crash on zone in.... well that means there was no reason to go there.
congrats to the OP for reaching admiral but sorry theres nothing there. it had been stated on numerous ocassions that raid episodes were on their way soon so its not all bad news.
by page 12 i had to skip many posts because if i read one more smart TRIBBLE saying 'go out and get some sun' i was gonna explode.
its a free world (in many places) and if someone chooses to play a game for a few days then so be it. stop getting on yer soap boxes. meh.
my standpoint is that levelling content is the priority right now. there are many things broken and it will take time to plug all the holes, it will eventually get there. i would have waiited a few more months for a more refined and polished game, but business is business.
STO reminds me of AutoAssault.
At max level you could do mindless pvp or kill that giant mutated spider over and over for loot.
They added content later but we all know where it ended.
If i think about it, there where alot less bugs in AA than in STO. Maybe STO will live longer because of its bugs. Cockroaches can survive a nuclear war you know.
Another lesson is don't underestimate your player base and put out enough content to last only a week.
I hate to be an *** but you really shouldn't be suprised by the lack of end game content.
1. Any game that I have ever beta tested that capped your beta testing level and didn't allow you to max out a character in beta was always unfinished at launch. The most recent example I can remember is Age of Conan. Sure, the first half of the game was great. Problem was the devs thought they could add in the back half of the game before too many people got to that point. They were wrong and so was Cryptic. Their game is unfinished, they know it, you know it, and many folks are going to learn it here real soon.
2. The skill system is a complete mess. It was designed with an unlimited skill cap in mind. Instead of nerfing the skill cap and redoing the skill trees they thought it would be okay to just lower the skill points and everything would work out. Unfortunately, wrong again. Right now the skill system doesn't allow for any sort experimentation or branching out. Say for example if you take some ground based skills, you just ****ed your build up for space, and vice versa. The whole system needs to be scrapped and redone. This isn't going to happen for a long time, if ever.
3. Crafting? Lmao are you joking? There is no crafting in this game. If you think the system that is in place now is "crafting" then I'm sorry. This is an upgrading system that makes no sense, isn't fun, and probably could be taken out of the game without anyone noticing. Unfortunately I point to what they did with this system as evidence of a half ***ed effort by the development team. As bad as Champions Online crafting was it was worlds better than STO. Can you guys really look in the mirror and tell yourselves that you made any effort in this system? No, because we the players are the ones suffering from your lack of desire to implement something fun and in depth.
As stated, I was going by memory, apparently there are people with more time on their hands than I that are willing to look up patch notes for Warcraft.
If I mis-spoke than I am sorry, perhaps Molten core Was in game at launch, but it was the only 40 man raid instance. BTW I noticed that 1.01 wasn't listed on the patch history.
I would have to ask what content you consumed. As I see it, for you to reach it after 7 days you had to either be exploiting a bug for really fast gain, or you stayed home 7 days straight playing like mad.
Either way, you had to have known that there was going to be very little end-game content available yet and you sort of did this to yourself. Enjoying the game at a normal pace is a lot better as there is no reason for you to reach Admiral that fast.
Its like someone eating dinner real fast and then going, "What? No Desert?" and then wishing they had enjoyed the dinner instead of jamming it down their throats.
I will agree on that face that cryptic did seem to ignore us on several points that has been made by the beta testers etc.
But at the same time i have to agree with several other posters. The game has barly lunched yet and your already max level, you need to slow down a bit.
ok, so your a powergamer, thats the way you play, not our foult.
But even tho you do not like to hear it, the game is new.
The coming year will show if it will survive or if it will fall like such games as tabula rasa.
I cannot believe you think its his fault that he has reached max level this quickly, it just goes to show how little content there is not just in the endgame but in the game as a whole.
Aion and WoW have lots of levels and it takes quite a while to get through them i know for a fact to get from level 42-43 in Aion you need to gather tens of millions of XP just for 1 level, and EVE doesn't even need Endgame content because PVP and alliance warfare is so well set up that there is literally an eternal pvp playerdriven war going on and not to mention that after god knows how many years you can count on one hand the number of people who are even remotely close to having max sp chars :cool:
show me any other decent mainstream MMO where you can max level a character in a week?
and if you can max level a character in a week then you need to have the endgame content in the game before release?
No game has end game content at launch. Just the way it is. Blizzard's end game content was 5 man dungeons with no player cap. MC and BWL weren't in at start, neither was that troll place in stranglethorn whose name escapes me.
EQ is about the only one I know of that had end game content at launch from memory, although many games I never played that long to even get to max. EQ had Vox, Nagafen and Cazic-Thule at launch, Innoruuk was added a few weeks later.
I'm just happily grinding through Zenas and Sector Defends and I'll be capped out on Mk X gear in a few days.
EVE online and SWG launched with a massive amount of end game content.
I'm not sure what verion of SWG you were playing. But it didn't release with any content, never mind end-game. It was entirely sandbox. PvE consisted of simply griding mobs. Real PvE content wasn't added until years later.
I cannot believe you think its his fault that he has reached max level this quickly, it just goes to show how little content there is not just in the endgame but in the game as a whole.
Aion and WoW have lots of levels and it takes quite a while to get through them i know for a fact to get from level 42-43 in Aion you need to gather tens of millions of XP just for 1 level, and EVE doesn't even need Endgame content because PVP and alliance warfare is so well set up that there is literally an eternal pvp playerdriven war going on and not to mention that after god knows how many years you can count on one hand the number of people who are even remotely close to having max sp chars :cool:
show me any other decent mainstream MMO where you can max level a character in a week?
and if you can max level a character in a week then you need to have the endgame content in the game before release?
Reaching max level <> exploring all content. You can max out WoW and still only have discovered less than a thrid of the world.
And the record for maxing out a wow character *Vanilla* ie 1-60 is around 26 hours so your post is a load of old tosh really
Also when people swtich to Klingon and start maxing out their chracters I am sure there will be plenty of pvp there as well
2. The skill system is a complete mess. It was designed with an unlimited skill cap in mind. Instead of nerfing the skill cap and redoing the skill trees they thought it would be okay to just lower the skill points and everything would work out. Unfortunately, wrong again. Right now the skill system doesn't allow for any sort experimentation or branching out. Say for example if you take some ground based skills, you just ****ed your build up for space, and vice versa. The whole system needs to be scrapped and redone. This isn't going to happen for a long time, if ever.
I had made this point in another post several weeks ago when the game was still in beta. They need to separate ground and space into two separate skill trees. Unfortunately I have taken no ground skills and as a result my ground game sucks. I have attempted to compensate by training my BOFF ground skills up and promoting them (even the ones that can't use high level stations on a starship can benefit on the ground).
The skill cap was a bad idea, but I can see why they chose to add it. If they are going to stick with it than they have to consider separating space and ground xp and allowing you to train in both independent of each other.
EVE online and SWG launched with a massive amount of end game content.
SGW launched with virtually no content. All of it had to be created by players. It was a Sandbox game. It wasn't until JtL that real "end game" content started entering the game, unless you are talking about Jedi.
I'm not sure what verion of SWG you were playing. But it didn't release with any content, never mind end-game. It was entirely sandbox. PvE consisted of simply griding mobs. Real PvE content wasn't added until years later.
It was the sandbox that MADE the content. Cafting, the economy, trying out new combos, the GCW ect ect. Compare SWG launch content to STO and there is a gulf larger than the atlantic between them.
You do see that they were patched in and not on release ?, sure they may have been there but incomplete, no loot and crash on zone in.... well that means there was no reason to go there.
I make it a habit of not arguing with people when they're right, and instead I shall simply focus the conversation in another direction: Stratholme and Scholomance were end-game too. and later on, so was Dire Maul.
in fact as I mentioned, I wasn't even level 60 by the time BWL was added... nor was anyone in my guild.
and once I got to 60, I had a lot of stuff to do and even more stuff to *aim for*.
so my original point stands:
1) the time it takes to get to max level is too short.
2) there's nothing to do when you get there.... yet.
TL;DR version: The game doesn't being at end-game, it begins at level 1. Enjoy all of it.
I'm not going to read 41 pages of responses... but I will give my own response.
I've played a few MMOs and I've enjoyed most of them. And I try to enjoy all aspects of MMOs: PvE, PvP, crafting, the social aspect. The problem with a lot of players is they fail to realize there is something more to the game than 'end-game'. I'd say its the biggest problem with MMO players in general: they think the game begins at the end-game. And it doesn't. It begins at level 1.
In SWG, I played a variety of professions. Even when I was a full combat template, I'd still go hang out and talk at the cantinas, even when I wasn't getting Battle Fatigue removed or buffs given. I'd just go hang out with the entertainers. Or I'd go looking around on planets just to enjoy the scenery. On Star Trek Online, I'm only a Lt. Commander; but, I headed off to DS9 to get some screen shots to show some friends. I take the time to enjoy the entire game; not just the end of it.
In WoW, I took my time with my first two characters (one of each side) to enjoy the content and experience of that side of the game. Enjoying the different scenery in the starting areas and how the quests differed and other such things. My third character I leveled up to 60 (pre-BC) in less than 2 weeks because I had already enjoyed the content and wanted to get this character into the end-game... but that was AFTER I had already truly played the game.
When people play games like Final Fantasy, they don't enjoy the game just because they beat it. They enjoy the entire experience. I remember somewhat grieving when Aeris died in Final Fantasy 7. I remember laughing at the silliness of Steiner in Final Fantasy 9. I remember being upset when the twin mages sacrificed themselves to save the group in Final Fantasy II or III (can't remember). Enjoy the entire game... not just the end.
When people start to realize that games begin on the opening pixel instead of at end-game, this type of complaining might disappear. That's why its called 'End-game' content, its at the END of the game. At this point, I'd like to thank Tigole and Furor for being the people who really started to push this paradigm of MMORPGs... They represent a lot of what I hate in MMO communities...
SGW launched with virtually no content. All of it had to be created by players. It was a Sandbox game. It wasn't until JtL that real "end game" content started entering the game, unless you are talking about Jedi.
Nobody knew how to make a Jedi.
Part of the experience of SWG was trying to figure out how to get a Jedi. And I have to admit, the sandbox of original SWG is why it will FOREVER be the standard of MMOs in my mind... even if it had tons of combat balance issues.
Comments
Yes, and there was no actual raid content in the game. It was either Scholo or Strat that was the first "end game" dungeon, and it too had no loot table. There were even zones that were unfinished and no point to PvP. WoW was barely worth playing until about 6 months in.
I think people forget that almost every MMO launches this way with the goal to be a smooth leveling experience. The people who rush to the end and come to the forums to whine are the minority. I personally would rather an immersive leveling experience than a dash to the end to farm the same thing over and over again.
Onyxia and Molten core werent up at launch, Dire Maul and Black Wing werent added until months later. Blackrock, Strath and Scholo were the only thing available when I hit 60.
See the Wiki entry. Ony and MC where there, they just were incomplete and crashed upon entry. They were basically placeholders. BR, Strath and Scholo were added in later and were also the first ones I stepped into, though I remember BR being a 15 man instance.
SWG also launched missing a major piece of content that was right on the box, space combat. That wasnt introduced until a year later. I also disagree with the people who say raiders are the "backbone" of an mmo. They are simply the ones who spend the most time playing. I feel that the casual to hardcore leaning people make up the real backbone of an MMO. It is just the hardcore players that are the loudest.
Again, this is wrong, both raid instances (MC, Onyxia) were in the game, in beta there was an NPC that was giving away Onyxia keys so the players could actually test the encounter. Both raids were buggy, unstable at launch, but they were there. I think the 1.2.0 patch in December 2004 fixed the issues, but I can't remember for certain.
Anyway, if you doubt my word, check out wowwiki, Onyxia's Lair (Original).
I'm now too lazy to link it all the time somebody makes the unqualified statement that there were no raid content in WoW.
BRS Strath and Scholo was the end game at the time tho...
That kept us plenty busy untill MC came out which was imo one of the best raid instances I have yet to enjoy.
It comes not unexpected though. Sure cancelation anyway from my side before the first billing :P
I doubt they will have the new carrots ready till then.
There is enough content to last at least several weeks or month(s) for the average person playing this game. I've played a fair amount, but I didn't rush. I took time to do fleet encounters, pvp, do missions and explore; basically I had a good time along the way.
I hit commander last night, many people are around my level now, some slightly higher in level, some slightly lower. What exactly was the rush to Admiral?
I guess for now your content is to make an alt and level him, perhaps this time take time to see the game and resist the urge to rush?
In principle, I agree with you, there should be something to do at endgame, if memory serves WOW did not have any raid content at release, that was added at their first 1.1 content patch. There were however a few 5 & 10 man instances there to keep the masses entertained. Cryptic should probably make it a goal to get something in pretty quick.
:eek:
WoW's patch-timeline calls you a liar.
That's because the hardcore players are the ones that are only there for the endgame content that casual players will never see. Bottom line with an MMO though: There is no way to please every single player. Too many varieties of playstyle. End of story. End game content may not be here today, but I doubt that you'll quit playing the game because of it not being there now. As was said by another poster, WoW didn't have end game content *functioning* until 6 months in...and they have 12 million players now...
I found this illogical. I would also say that if I was a developer, you've personally lost influence points. So many other games have started with the endgame to come. It's not entirely uncommon.
You do see that they were patched in and not on release ?, sure they may have been there but incomplete, no loot and crash on zone in.... well that means there was no reason to go there.
congrats to the OP for reaching admiral but sorry theres nothing there. it had been stated on numerous ocassions that raid episodes were on their way soon so its not all bad news.
by page 12 i had to skip many posts because if i read one more smart TRIBBLE saying 'go out and get some sun' i was gonna explode.
its a free world (in many places) and if someone chooses to play a game for a few days then so be it. stop getting on yer soap boxes. meh.
my standpoint is that levelling content is the priority right now. there are many things broken and it will take time to plug all the holes, it will eventually get there. i would have waiited a few more months for a more refined and polished game, but business is business.
At max level you could do mindless pvp or kill that giant mutated spider over and over for loot.
They added content later but we all know where it ended.
If i think about it, there where alot less bugs in AA than in STO. Maybe STO will live longer because of its bugs. Cockroaches can survive a nuclear war you know.
I hate to be an *** but you really shouldn't be suprised by the lack of end game content.
1. Any game that I have ever beta tested that capped your beta testing level and didn't allow you to max out a character in beta was always unfinished at launch. The most recent example I can remember is Age of Conan. Sure, the first half of the game was great. Problem was the devs thought they could add in the back half of the game before too many people got to that point. They were wrong and so was Cryptic. Their game is unfinished, they know it, you know it, and many folks are going to learn it here real soon.
2. The skill system is a complete mess. It was designed with an unlimited skill cap in mind. Instead of nerfing the skill cap and redoing the skill trees they thought it would be okay to just lower the skill points and everything would work out. Unfortunately, wrong again. Right now the skill system doesn't allow for any sort experimentation or branching out. Say for example if you take some ground based skills, you just ****ed your build up for space, and vice versa. The whole system needs to be scrapped and redone. This isn't going to happen for a long time, if ever.
3. Crafting? Lmao are you joking? There is no crafting in this game. If you think the system that is in place now is "crafting" then I'm sorry. This is an upgrading system that makes no sense, isn't fun, and probably could be taken out of the game without anyone noticing. Unfortunately I point to what they did with this system as evidence of a half ***ed effort by the development team. As bad as Champions Online crafting was it was worlds better than STO. Can you guys really look in the mirror and tell yourselves that you made any effort in this system? No, because we the players are the ones suffering from your lack of desire to implement something fun and in depth.
As stated, I was going by memory, apparently there are people with more time on their hands than I that are willing to look up patch notes for Warcraft.
If I mis-spoke than I am sorry, perhaps Molten core Was in game at launch, but it was the only 40 man raid instance. BTW I noticed that 1.01 wasn't listed on the patch history.
I would have to ask what content you consumed. As I see it, for you to reach it after 7 days you had to either be exploiting a bug for really fast gain, or you stayed home 7 days straight playing like mad.
Either way, you had to have known that there was going to be very little end-game content available yet and you sort of did this to yourself. Enjoying the game at a normal pace is a lot better as there is no reason for you to reach Admiral that fast.
Its like someone eating dinner real fast and then going, "What? No Desert?" and then wishing they had enjoyed the dinner instead of jamming it down their throats.
I cannot believe you think its his fault that he has reached max level this quickly, it just goes to show how little content there is not just in the endgame but in the game as a whole.
Aion and WoW have lots of levels and it takes quite a while to get through them i know for a fact to get from level 42-43 in Aion you need to gather tens of millions of XP just for 1 level, and EVE doesn't even need Endgame content because PVP and alliance warfare is so well set up that there is literally an eternal pvp playerdriven war going on and not to mention that after god knows how many years you can count on one hand the number of people who are even remotely close to having max sp chars :cool:
show me any other decent mainstream MMO where you can max level a character in a week?
and if you can max level a character in a week then you need to have the endgame content in the game before release?
EVE online and SWG launched with a massive amount of end game content.
Reaching max level <> exploring all content. You can max out WoW and still only have discovered less than a thrid of the world.
And the record for maxing out a wow character *Vanilla* ie 1-60 is around 26 hours so your post is a load of old tosh really
Also when people swtich to Klingon and start maxing out their chracters I am sure there will be plenty of pvp there as well
I had made this point in another post several weeks ago when the game was still in beta. They need to separate ground and space into two separate skill trees. Unfortunately I have taken no ground skills and as a result my ground game sucks. I have attempted to compensate by training my BOFF ground skills up and promoting them (even the ones that can't use high level stations on a starship can benefit on the ground).
The skill cap was a bad idea, but I can see why they chose to add it. If they are going to stick with it than they have to consider separating space and ground xp and allowing you to train in both independent of each other.
SGW launched with virtually no content. All of it had to be created by players. It was a Sandbox game. It wasn't until JtL that real "end game" content started entering the game, unless you are talking about Jedi.
Nobody knew how to make a Jedi.
It was the sandbox that MADE the content. Cafting, the economy, trying out new combos, the GCW ect ect. Compare SWG launch content to STO and there is a gulf larger than the atlantic between them.
I make it a habit of not arguing with people when they're right, and instead I shall simply focus the conversation in another direction: Stratholme and Scholomance were end-game too. and later on, so was Dire Maul.
in fact as I mentioned, I wasn't even level 60 by the time BWL was added... nor was anyone in my guild.
and once I got to 60, I had a lot of stuff to do and even more stuff to *aim for*.
so my original point stands:
1) the time it takes to get to max level is too short.
2) there's nothing to do when you get there.... yet.
edit: Freudian slip.
I'm not going to read 41 pages of responses... but I will give my own response.
I've played a few MMOs and I've enjoyed most of them. And I try to enjoy all aspects of MMOs: PvE, PvP, crafting, the social aspect. The problem with a lot of players is they fail to realize there is something more to the game than 'end-game'. I'd say its the biggest problem with MMO players in general: they think the game begins at the end-game. And it doesn't. It begins at level 1.
In SWG, I played a variety of professions. Even when I was a full combat template, I'd still go hang out and talk at the cantinas, even when I wasn't getting Battle Fatigue removed or buffs given. I'd just go hang out with the entertainers. Or I'd go looking around on planets just to enjoy the scenery. On Star Trek Online, I'm only a Lt. Commander; but, I headed off to DS9 to get some screen shots to show some friends. I take the time to enjoy the entire game; not just the end of it.
In WoW, I took my time with my first two characters (one of each side) to enjoy the content and experience of that side of the game. Enjoying the different scenery in the starting areas and how the quests differed and other such things. My third character I leveled up to 60 (pre-BC) in less than 2 weeks because I had already enjoyed the content and wanted to get this character into the end-game... but that was AFTER I had already truly played the game.
When people play games like Final Fantasy, they don't enjoy the game just because they beat it. They enjoy the entire experience. I remember somewhat grieving when Aeris died in Final Fantasy 7. I remember laughing at the silliness of Steiner in Final Fantasy 9. I remember being upset when the twin mages sacrificed themselves to save the group in Final Fantasy II or III (can't remember). Enjoy the entire game... not just the end.
When people start to realize that games begin on the opening pixel instead of at end-game, this type of complaining might disappear. That's why its called 'End-game' content, its at the END of the game. At this point, I'd like to thank Tigole and Furor for being the people who really started to push this paradigm of MMORPGs... They represent a lot of what I hate in MMO communities...
Part of the experience of SWG was trying to figure out how to get a Jedi. And I have to admit, the sandbox of original SWG is why it will FOREVER be the standard of MMOs in my mind... even if it had tons of combat balance issues.
You say that like its a bad thing. I feel for people who need to be lead around by the nose.