May not be old, but I meantioned that it would make sense story wise due to recent events.
Agreed. We know that Khitomer was the original site of the first real peace talks between theKlingon Empire and the Federation. We know it is also where the original treaty between them was brokered after the events of the Battle of Narendra III, where the Enterprise-C was lost defending a klingon outpost from Romulan attack. And now the UFP, the KDF the Cardassian Empire and the Dominion are all members of the Khitomer Alliance.
Khitomer would be a great place for the alliance to formally construct a new joint operations center. Not a military establishment, though it would play host to many strategic conferences attended by many officers in the upper echelons of Alliance command. It would become known throughout the united parts of the galaxy as a grand jewel of commerce and cooperative research. A foundational place for a brighter future to be built for all and by all.
If only Cryptic would consider doing something like that.
The way I kinda see something like it would be borrowing an idea from FF14. Several times they've had community based reconstruction efforts. Revenant's Toll, Idyllshire, and more recently the new housing district in Ishgard being prime examples. They were at least months long endeavors. With the housing district, various parts needed a period of resource collection, either raw materials or crafted items from said raw materials (allowing for both Crafters and Gatherers to contribute) before activating a major community effort to progress reconstruction that involved crafters doing tasks related to whatever the particular event needed. And it was kinda small steps like clearing rubble to open up an area or something like that.
If we can do something similar here, it could not only help mitigate the Dilithium supply, but we could also add a Crafting Material component as well, both raw materials we find, and crafted components. That way we not only provide a Dilithium Sink, but something to give crafters things to do as well with their stockpiles of materials. And if we have some kind of community day where tasks need to be done, they can be class based ones.
And ultimately once all is said and done, probably have open projects to help with maintaining new Alliance based equipment or something. Maybe even "helping" to make the next Alliance ship.
Perhaps if they make some of the new ships they put out for tier 6 dilithium ships instead of entirely zen ships, it might help?
Well, that's just not gonna happen. You're talking about cutting into the game's revenue stream at that point.
Just make them cost 2.5-3.5 mill dill and only sell them in a limited quantity with some fancy vanity shield
And then 6-12 months later release them in the store for 3k zen without the vanity shield.
i dont know the metrics of sto so it's possbile this idea is stupid but i just thought i would give an example of how it could be done without necessarily cutting into the game's revenue stream :P
Thing is, you cannot take something from their sole source of revenue (ships) and release it for RD without cutting into the revenue stream. They won't do it.
well the ideas was to make people use the zen differently not stop buying it. although with the massive stockpiles of refined dill that might be how it would feel initially.
An alliance related or other project might be nice, providing inputs are on a per player basis to progress. The projects should probably involve a lot of refined dilithium, in order to act as a sink.
Ok, these ideas involving Khitomer and Aliance Command look very promising to me. If only the Dev team could see these ideas, they may like them enough to implement them or some version of them into the game, pure gold.
An alliance related or other project might be nice, providing inputs are on a per player basis to progress. The projects should probably involve a lot of refined dilithium, in order to act as a sink.
Massive amounts of it. Fleet Holding dilithium costs were based on the idea of even a large fleet with many participants taking a while to complete all tiers of progression. This would need to be based on the entire community of active players. So we are looking at MILLIONS of RD per project. An impossible task for one player to ever do, but with no requirement of being in a fleetand with the knowledge that the next leg of official story content will originate in the place that is being built, not to mention that there will be visible progress as the city is being built, with new important officials showing up as their area of influince in the city reaches a stage where, while not finished, is far enough along for operations to begin. Participants will see progress made and know that their contribution, no matter bow large or small, will have made the progress possible.
One thing to incentivize involvement could be the introduction of player apartments housed within the Central Spire of the city. It would be a massive skyscraper. Each floor would have several apartments with a common corridor network connecting them. The appartments themselves would be instanced, but if my appartment number is 9931, it means I would be residing on the 99th floor in apartment 31. In addition to being able to decorate the apartment as desired, it would also grant additional item storage. How much one contributes to the construction of the city would be how much purchase of it will be discounted.
Fleets who participate would also receive credit towards a floor in one of many adminiustrative buildings throughout the city. These facilities would serve a specific role revolving around Admiralty responsibilities. It should be at these facilities that our bridge officers finally be allowed to progress all the way up to Admiral, with players being the only ones to achieve Fleet Admiral status, So there would be a lot of Doff and Admiralty assignments running through these offices, though they would be highly specialized.
I spoke of meaningful gameplay that impacts the game beyond one's personal experiences. This flag office branch of content could be used to facilitate initial experiments in such mechanics, and if successful, expanded into other areas of gameplay. But having the offices be where all that sort of thing is facilitated makes it something that draws fleet participation. Fleets not participating in the building of the city can still obtain an office floor. It just won't be discounted from participation. Any individual NOT in a fleet can purchase an office as well so long as they have achieved the rank of Rear Admiral LH, but the cost will be expensive. The offices would be pre-furnished and kitted out with the right consoles and equipment based on the purpose it is to serve. Layout of all offices would be the same, but color scheme, furnishing and equipment would define the purpose.
Of course, Apartments and Offices could be added after the city is completed. Shuttles would move players between the different districts of the City. And transporter platforms as well. It's just an idea for logical extended functionality that could be made available. The game could track how much individuals and fleets have contributed and remember that value for if when apartments and offices are added.
An alliance related or other project might be nice, providing inputs are on a per player basis to progress. The projects should probably involve a lot of refined dilithium, in order to act as a sink.
Massive amounts of it. Fleet Holding dilithium costs were based on the idea of even a large fleet with many participants taking a while to complete all tiers of progression. This would need to be based on the entire community of active players. So we are looking at MILLIONS of RD per project. An impossible task for one player to ever do, but with no requirement of being in a fleetand with the knowledge that the next leg of official story content will originate in the place that is being built, not to mention that there will be visible progress as the city is being built, with new important officials showing up as their area of influince in the city reaches a stage where, while not finished, is far enough along for operations to begin. Participants will see progress made and know that their contribution, no matter bow large or small, will have made the progress possible.
One thing to incentivize involvement could be the introduction of player apartments housed within the Central Spire of the city. It would be a massive skyscraper. Each floor would have several apartments with a common corridor network connecting them. The appartments themselves would be instanced, but if my appartment number is 9931, it means I would be residing on the 99th floor in apartment 31. In addition to being able to decorate the apartment as desired, it would also grant additional item storage. How much one contributes to the construction of the city would be how much purchase of it will be discounted.
Fleets who participate would also receive credit towards a floor in one of many adminiustrative buildings throughout the city. These facilities would serve a specific role revolving around Admiralty responsibilities. It should be at these facilities that our bridge officers finally be allowed to progress all the way up to Admiral, with players being the only ones to achieve Fleet Admiral status, So there would be a lot of Doff and Admiralty assignments running through these offices, though they would be highly specialized.
I spoke of meaningful gameplay that impacts the game beyond one's personal experiences. This flag office branch of content could be used to facilitate initial experiments in such mechanics, and if successful, expanded into other areas of gameplay. But having the offices be where all that sort of thing is facilitated makes it something that draws fleet participation. Fleets not participating in the building of the city can still obtain an office floor. It just won't be discounted from participation. Any individual NOT in a fleet can purchase an office as well so long as they have achieved the rank of Rear Admiral LH, but the cost will be expensive. The offices would be pre-furnished and kitted out with the right consoles and equipment based on the purpose it is to serve. Layout of all offices would be the same, but color scheme, furnishing and equipment would define the purpose.
Of course, Apartments and Offices could be added after the city is completed. Shuttles would move players between the different districts of the City. And transporter platforms as well. It's just an idea for logical extended functionality that could be made available. The game could track how much individuals and fleets have contributed and remember that value for if when apartments and offices are added.
What an amazing post. So much detail. I'd love to have a room.
I think something like this might work well as a dil sink. The big fleetz would all be competing to see who could build the tallest building.
You need to understand that the majority of Dilithium that was donated to Fleet projects was done so by Fleet leaders/owners, who were buying their Dilithium from the Exchange. Not by Fleet members. Now that the majority of Fleets have maxed out their Starbases/Holdings, those Fleet leaders/owners have no need to buy Dilithium anymore, hence the Dilithium Exchange issue we have now.
You're talking about a massive community project where no one owns it, though. What will happen is that the majority of players, just like in Fleets, will assume that someone else will invest their Dilithium in it. Since there's no true ownership, there will be no Fleet leader/owner types, who are motivated enough through ownership to use their Zen (IRL money) to buy Dilithium to invest in the donations.
Also, this seeing progression over time idea was what we were supposed to get with New Romulus. We were supposed to see the city grow and change over time. But it didn't happen. It's a static map, just like every other. If they didn't do it then, at a time when they had more staff and actually took significant time between content drops (Legacy of Romulus was months and months in development), they certainly won't do it now that they have limited personnel and time between content drops.
Apartments/player housing on some remote world aren't going to happen either. Players have been asking for player housing for years. And in Star Trek Online, the logical place to have player housing is aboard the player's starship. This is essentially the Dilithium sink idea that I floated to the devs. Starship Interiors that took the Fleet Starbase/Holdings system and personalized it, introducing new Decks ever so often. It was a massive idea that incorporated almost every system in the game from DOFFing to Crafting to mini games, even the Reputation System for various cosmetic options. I even gave them examples of how they could incorporate the art assets (environments) into existing gameplay by updating older mission maps and using them in new mission maps as well. If anyone cares to know some of the details, I'm sure y'all can find it on the forum somewhere. Point is, though, it was rejected. Not because they wouldn't love to do something like it, but because it's not something they can do. Such a thing, same as this Khitomer idea, would require massive amounts of art assets, which they don't have enough artists to produce, not to mention the program development, because even adapting an existing system still requires new programming.
I'm not saying that these types of ideas don't sound great. Some folks have come up with some really amazing things that would be so cool to see in STO. But the reality is that it just isn't feasible and so, won't happen. Whatever the solution to the Dilithium Exchange issue, it will have to be something that can be implemented relatively easily. Vanity Shields and Phoenix Boxes have been shown to make a dent in the Dilithium surplus in the past. Could making them permanently available solve the problem? Not really. It would work for awhile, sure. But eventually, players will have acquired all the Vanity Shields that they want and Dilithium will start piling up again. So, the solution has to be something easily implemented and sustainable.
It's not an easy answer, and I certainly don't know what it could possibly be, but I understand what it won't be. 🤷♀️
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
A customized starship interior, with custom NPC uniforms set by me in the tailor and all of my bridge officers wandering about sounds great to me. SWTOR offers both ship interior customization and separate player housing but I think (hazy memory after 5+ years away) it cost zen-equivalent real money not free dil-equivalent.
Uhh... you could craft a few customizations but most came from lock boxes and the store? Maybe?
BMR, it isn't really a question of whether something like this is going to happen. It's about the sort of thing that needs to happen in order to give RD a purpose,. It's just an idea. Bottom line is that without Cryptic actually designing something that requires lots of RD long term, there will be no demand for the stuff. Certainly not enough of a demand that people will part with Zen to obtain it.
There was a post while back by someone who suggested that Cryptic has no intention of fixing the issue. Because people ARE buying Zen with real money in sufficient collective quantities that its sale is profitable. If they saw it as a real problem the way that players who want to get their Zen without paying a dime of their own money see it, they would have long since designed and implemented things with steep RD cost that encourage players to spend surplus Zen to maximize the amount of RD they have available to complete the objectives ASAP.
All they have done amounts to band-aid solutions to arterial wound problems, fixing nothing.
If they will not put in the effort, then we need to accept that the DilEx as it once was is gone, and that if we want to obtain Zen quickly instead of waiting over a month before a DilEx order completes, we need to just open our wallet and spend real money.
This really is an either-or situation. Either they do what they know must be done to drive interest towards RD that people with spare Zen will trade it away, or we must open our wallet. Because the DilEx isn't really broken. It's just hit maximum RD to Zen ratio. It cannot get any worse.
I just know that things ramped up after Cryptic stopped producing content that consumed RD while still allowing Dilithium Ore to pay out in so many ways that refining at the daily cap became easy. It's flowing into the economy just fine. It isn't flowing out nearly fast enough
Ok. So, you want to just spit into the wind with fantasy ideas. I thought maybe we were talking about real solutions. But that's fine. We can daydream.
So, as long as we're daydreaming... The biggest demand for Dilithium in-game, that which really drove the Dilithium economy, was Fleet projects. Building Starbases and Holdings. Cryptic would need to continue adding Holdings to the Fleet System and/or expand them past Tier 5. That would stir those Fleet leaders/owners I was talking about to start trading their Zen for Dilithium to advance their Fleets again.
Personal stake is what drives players to invest their Dilithium. On a personal level, Starship Interiors could be introduced, using the Fleet System as a model, to get individual players to invest in their own player housing system. Not everyone would participate, of course, and hopefully, those would be the ones offering their Dilithium on the Exchange.
I've included in the spoiler tag some of the Starship Interiors proposal that I made for anyone interested in reading it. I'll spare the rest who aren't. 😏
It's too bad that something isn't being done with ship interiors, because most of Star Trek took place on the ship. I think it's something that would be worth investing development time in, because the work put into it could then be used as a basis for so many other things: episode mission maps, PVE/PVP queue maps, etc.
I've said before that I'd love to see Starship Interiors done the way Fleet Starbases are done, but scaled to a personal level. Fleet Starbases have their various leveling projects and cosmetic projects. Starship Interiors could work the same way with project inputs scaled to the individual rather than an entire fleet. Leveling one's Starship Interior would give a player access to more things: Bank, Email, Tailor, etc. Cosmetic projects could allow for decor in the Captain's Quarters, Ten Forward, or even allow to toggle between TOS, TMP, TNG, and 2410 aesthetics.
Fleet Starbases have holdings that can also be leveled and have cosmetic projects. On Starship Interiors this would be represented by adding new decks, for example:
Crew Deck: Captain's Quarters with possible Tailor access and trophy displays. Ten Forward with a variety of games that we've seen played in Star Trek and possibly a dance floor. Assign quarters to various BOFFS, visit them and they could give you a daily mission to be done aboard ship.
Life Sciences: a menagerie for storing and displaying pets bought and earned, possible breeding projects for said pets to be unlocked, games for scanning, detecting, identifying life forms.
Stellar Cartography: scanning games for locating, identifying various stellar phenomenon.
Sick Bay: triaging patients game (similar to the Kobali triage mission) for crew members that wander into Sick Bay.
Shuttle Bay: small craft that we own could be displayed here, switching to small craft could be done here, traveling to Fleet Holding could be done here, queueing for shuttle PVE/PVP could be done here, perhaps some unique shuttle piloting/racing missions could be done from here.
Engineering: engineering diagnostic games (warp field, plasma flow adjustments), detecting problems on the ship somewhere then going there and fixing it, a Jefferies tube scavenger hunt type game (using a blank map like Temporal Ambassador), crafting of unique items available only here.
Allow our designated Department Heads to be assigned to occupy the relevant station on board, ex) CMO would be in Sick Bay, Chief Engineer would be in Engineering.
Allow us some (at least limited) choices on crew composition. Perhaps using toggles for species, uniforms that they wear. These options could also be made available through cosmetic projects. Personally, I'd love to see the DOFF roster used to determine crew composition. Allow a toggle or slider for number of crew on a given map with 0 being an option as well. Interacting with random crew members could yield a daily mission or unique DOFF assignment.
The maps themselves could be used to update older episode missions that take place aboard a ship and future missions that need to take place aboard a ship. Also, ship boarding/repel boarders PVE/PVP queues could use the maps as well. Perhaps even a capture the flag type CPVE mission: two teams beam in, Team A captures the bridge, Team B captures engineering. First one to their goal wins.
Additionally, the Starship Interiors maps would be separate and independent from the bridge, so one could use the bridge of their choice. There could be an option to sync visuals between the bridge and interior for ships that only have a bridge and no other decks to re-skin those decks with the same aesthetics. For example, using a Hirogen ship would re-skin the Starship Interiors deck maps using Hirogen textures, using a Tholian ship would re-skin them using Tholian textures.
Unless there is a way to connect them via map moving in the turbolift, unique ship interiors would be retained as they are. They just wouldn't utilize this system. So your full TOS, Defiant, Voyager, etc. interiors would be retained and could be used separately. This proposed Starship Interiors system would be the new default interior for your ship, though. There might be uproar about that, but it's the best way to preserve previous ship interior/bridge purchases with (hopefully) minimal uproar. Perhaps have those purchases automatically unlock texturing/lighting aesthetics to give them an extra bonus. So, those canon interior aesthetics could be applied to the new interiors. It wouldn't be an exact TOS interior, but it would look like that era. It wouldn't be an exact TNG interior, but it would use that aesthetic. It wouldn't be an exact Tholian interior, but it would fit that style.
The deck/room layouts would be generic, so that they could be easily used for missions. As it is, doing a 5-man Starbase defense, the queue randomly chooses a Fleet Starbase from among the participants. Whatever level/visuals that base is in is the map that's used. Same would go for a potential 5-man ship boarding/repelling queue maps. Someone in the team's ship map will be used. The layouts are all the same, but the look might be different.
Yes, FED, KDF, and ROM would need 3 separate layouts, but only for the crew deck and engineering deck. New decks added, like holdings, could be a generic corridor with rooms branching off. What would make them unique would be the skin that's applied to them: a Starfleet skin, Klingon skin, Romulan skin as the basic default look depending on the character. Other skins would be unlocked via cosmetic projects, C-Store purchases, Lock Box ships, etc. The Reputation System could be tied into it, too: Tier 5 Reputation Project that allows for unique Starship Interior visuals.
Oh, and this would be a per character system, not account wide, unless a certain purchase unlocks for the account.
I think that threads and polls like this try to show Cryptic that there might be support to do this, that players would be willing to buy it into it if it were made. And while Cryptic does indeed want to make money, I don't think that is the real hold up here. I think that this is something they might be willing to do, if they knew how they could best implement it and get the most bang for their buck for the time and development that they'd put into it.
The best example I can point to is the Voyager interior. It's beautiful, iconic, and screen accurate. One of the reasons we got that interior with that level of detail, though, was because it was extensively used during the Delta Rising story arc missions. And so, it could be used for future story missions as well. Bonus that it could sold to the masses as a Starship Bridge/Interior.
What I've tried to do with the proposal that I made was less about how much or whether players would be willing to spend real money for it, but rather try to show Cryptic: a direction they could go to implement it; to tie it into systems that they already have; to use it as an asset for future story/mission development; how to expand on it, so that it shows potential for future growth rather than a one-and-done project; to make it an integral part of one's daily game play; and yeah, maybe there are some aspects that can be monetized, too.
We've got to give them more than just saying, "Hey, I'd buy it, if you make it." That's easy to ignore or pass on by. I want to get them interested. I want to give them an idea that gets them excited enough to say, "That's awesome! I'd love to build that into the game!"
I've had a few more ideas since then to add to it, but that's the bulk of the proposal. So, if we're just daydreaming ideas to deal with the Dilithium dilemma, then this is what I'd like to see done, and what I believe would be the best, most realistic solution to the problem. 🤷🏼♀️
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
We’re not just daydreaming, we need a legitimate solution.
I was addressing quirk, who is apparently fine with just daydreaming solutions, instead of trying to actually solve the problem.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
We’re not just daydreaming, we need a legitimate solution.
I was addressing quirk, who is apparently fine with just daydreaming solutions, instead of trying to actually solve the problem.
I am just a member of the STO community. I am not a developer. Anything any of us can do here is just daydreaming. Only Cryptic is in any kind of poisition to take real action.
Can you deny that band-aid solutions won't fix the actual problem?
Can you deny that the actions Cryptic has taken since the DilEx went sideways have just been band-aid solutions?
Can you deny that the solution to the problem, assuming Cryptic really feels it IS a problem, will involve them taking action in soliud development of gameplay mechanics (whatever form that may take) to give people with spare Zen a reason to trade away that Zen rather than just hold onto it?
If you can honestly deny these things and be able to cite actual proof that the denial is valid, then I will gladly concede the point. Otherwise, I shall maintain my opinion of what I feel Cryptic could do to turn this thing around.
Unless of course they no longer wish to hold to the narrative of time and money being interchangable in their free to play games.
Cryptic's decisions to dial back the production of things that make RD useful is what resulted in the DilEx reaching critical mass. From my chair, I can only see Cryptic deciding to once again start production of things that make RD useful as the way to turn it back around. I don't really care what they do. But if they mean to fix this, they just need to do something decisive.
I can deny your implications that Cryptic doesn't care about the Dilithium Exchange issue. And I will advise you that such accusations skirt dangerously close to flaming/trolling.
There are many things that could be done. Under ideal circumstances. But I've been trying to caution what is and isn't possible. You want to go on daydreaming, go ahead. The rest of us will try and brainstorm actually feasible ideas.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
I can deny your implications that Cryptic doesn't care about the Dilithium Exchange issue. And I will advise you that such accusations skirt dangerously close to flaming/trolling.
Oh... I see... You're putting words in my mouth and making a veiled threat. I see how it is. You have a nice day now.
There are many things that could be done. Under ideal circumstances. But I've been trying to caution what is and isn't possible. You want to go on daydreaming, go ahead. The rest of us will try and brainstorm actually feasible ideas.
So what is your criteria for a "feasible idea?" That way I can factor that into my daydreaming for a more productive discussion. At least, I'd be able to post something without you arbitrarily shooting it down because it doesn't meet your standards for validity.
Oh... I see... You're putting words in my mouth and making a veiled threat. I see how it is. You have a nice day now.
No. baddmoon's not putting words in your mouth. Its pretty much fact as when people do start going down that road of throwing out accusastions, it will turn into flaming. People can say things all they want about "just asking questions" or whatever, but at the end of the day its the INTENT behind those words. And Intent doesn't always translate well via text alone. And when accusations start coming out, 9 times out of 10 its with malicious intent. That is when we mods have to step in because it takes on the appearance of an attack, which is against forum rules.
It is alright to express frustraition, however you have to be mindful of HOW you say it. It is not censorship or violating freedom of speech when ITS IN THE RULES that have been around since the fourms started, and every user agrees to when they join. You break the rules, expect to get slammed for it. You KNOWINGLY break the rules, and try to hide behind something else to justify such behavior... you're still gonna get slammed for breaking the established rules of the forum.
So in essence... baddmoon was not putting words in your mouth and making veiled threats. Baddmoon was warning you that you're skirting closer to potential rule violations as a warning to tone it down so you can keep a civil discussion going.
I can deny your implications that Cryptic doesn't care about the Dilithium Exchange issue. And I will advise you that such accusations skirt dangerously close to flaming/trolling.
Oh... I see... You're putting words in my mouth and making a veiled threat. I see how it is. You have a nice day now.
Nope. Not putting words in your mouth. Your "assuming Cryptic really feels it IS a problem" implies that you believe they do not. And I was cautioning you that your words could stray into false accusations that would be construed as flaming/trolling according to the rules of this forum. It's not a veiled threat, but a courtesy heads up.
There are many things that could be done. Under ideal circumstances. But I've been trying to caution what is and isn't possible. You want to go on daydreaming, go ahead. The rest of us will try and brainstorm actually feasible ideas.
So what is your criteria for a "feasible idea?" That way I can factor that into my daydreaming for a more productive discussion. At least, I'd be able to post something without you arbitrarily shooting it down because it doesn't meet your standards for validity.
It's not my criteria. I'm just trying to inform you on what's already come before you, so that you don't waste your time running down a rabbit hole.
But speaking of veiled threats, your PM was obviously one. I'm no fool either. I can read between the lines. And you may find that you're tangling with the wrong chica.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Oh... I see... You're putting words in my mouth and making a veiled threat. I see how it is. You have a nice day now.
No. baddmoon's not putting words in your mouth. Its pretty much fact as when people do start going down that road of throwing out accusastions, it will turn into flaming. People can say things all they want about "just asking questions" or whatever, but at the end of the day its the INTENT behind those words. And Intent doesn't always translate well via text alone. And when accusations start coming out, 9 times out of 10 its with malicious intent. That is when we mods have to step in because it takes on the appearance of an attack, which is against forum rules.
It is alright to express frustraition, however you have to be mindful of HOW you say it. It is not censorship or violating freedom of speech when ITS IN THE RULES that have been around since the fourms started, and every user agrees to when they join. You break the rules, expect to get slammed for it. You KNOWINGLY break the rules, and try to hide behind something else to justify such behavior... you're still gonna get slammed for breaking the established rules of the forum.
So in essence... baddmoon was not putting words in your mouth and making veiled threats. Baddmoon was warning you that you're skirting closer to potential rule violations as a warning to tone it down so you can keep a civil discussion going.
That has already been done, many times, with the fleet starbase and their holdings - the wealthy players in STO have DOZENS of characters that are completely maxed out on all manner of currencies, not just dilithium.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
That has already been done, many times, with the fleet starbase and their holdings - the wealthy players in STO have DOZENS of characters that are completely maxed out on all manner of currencies, not just dilithium.
That means that the projects will be completed, even if a significant group is not interested in participating. But it is important that this hypothetical application of the holdings mechanic is openly available to every single player, regardless of whether or not they are in a fleet. I know that the need for fleet membership has been off-putting to some people who prefer to just enjoy the game without getting involved at any level with fleet politics.
Whether what I suggest here is used as a solution for the DilEx problem, or just to give players a new avenue to go down with their characters, it would expose the mechanics to those who may not have personally experienced them because they were locked behind a wall of conditional exclusion.
That has already been done, many times, with the fleet starbase and their holdings - the wealthy players in STO have DOZENS of characters that are completely maxed out on all manner of currencies, not just dilithium.
That means that the projects will be completed, even if a significant group is not interested in participating. But it is important that this hypothetical application of the holdings mechanic is openly available to every single player, regardless of whether or not they are in a fleet. I know that the need for fleet membership has been off-putting to some people who prefer to just enjoy the game without getting involved at any level with fleet politics.
Whether what I suggest here is used as a solution for the DilEx problem, or just to give players a new avenue to go down with their characters, it would expose the mechanics to those who may not have personally experienced them because they were locked behind a wall of conditional exclusion.
Ah, so dilithium donations are to be left to "other" players. This is why I asked above if donations were on a per player basis.
That has already been done, many times, with the fleet starbase and their holdings - the wealthy players in STO have DOZENS of characters that are completely maxed out on all manner of currencies, not just dilithium.
That means that the projects will be completed, even if a significant group is not interested in participating. But it is important that this hypothetical application of the holdings mechanic is openly available to every single player, regardless of whether or not they are in a fleet. I know that the need for fleet membership has been off-putting to some people who prefer to just enjoy the game without getting involved at any level with fleet politics.
Whether what I suggest here is used as a solution for the DilEx problem, or just to give players a new avenue to go down with their characters, it would expose the mechanics to those who may not have personally experienced them because they were locked behind a wall of conditional exclusion.
Ah, so dilithium donations are to be left to "other" players. This is why I asked above if donations were on a per player basis.
Nobody would be forced to donate anything if they don't want to. But to encourage them to do so, the game could track how much a player has contributed. At certain intervals, valuable account-based rewards could be offered. These items would be on the RD store for the city, to prevent them from being exclusives, but those who donate to the construction efforts could be given what amounts to in-store credit. If the fleet holding system offered something like that, more people might have contributed. Instead, the holdings demanded RD donations to go towards unlocking fleet stores that turned around and demanded more RD to purchase stuff. The sense of reward and accomplishment in that regard was minimal, if it existed at all. That cannot happen with something like this, where the outflow of RD from players must be worth it. It cannot be all take and no give.
That has already been done, many times, with the fleet starbase and their holdings - the wealthy players in STO have DOZENS of characters that are completely maxed out on all manner of currencies, not just dilithium.
That means that the projects will be completed, even if a significant group is not interested in participating. But it is important that this hypothetical application of the holdings mechanic is openly available to every single player, regardless of whether or not they are in a fleet. I know that the need for fleet membership has been off-putting to some people who prefer to just enjoy the game without getting involved at any level with fleet politics.
Whether what I suggest here is used as a solution for the DilEx problem, or just to give players a new avenue to go down with their characters, it would expose the mechanics to those who may not have personally experienced them because they were locked behind a wall of conditional exclusion.
Ah, so dilithium donations are to be left to "other" players. This is why I asked above if donations were on a per player basis.
Nobody would be forced to donate anything if they don't want to.
Well that's a relief. My own focus is on saving up as much dil as possible for the Legendary ships.
And I was cautioning you that your words could stray into false accusations that would be construed as flaming/trolling according to the rules of this forum. It's not a veiled threat, but a courtesy heads up.[/color]
I'm not going to lie, I'm new to this thread but reading through this in a single go, that DID sound more threat than warning, whether that was the intent or not.
For me, personally, I really think they SHOULD remove the cap and for all the wrong reasons. Maybe they should let it fail, just so they can use it to prove the point of WHY the cap is on there.
I've always thought it was a matter of value. Dil is more valuable for Zen than it is for anything else, more so at the prices they ask for things (both Dil/Zen). As BMR stated, the dil for fleet projects was likely done by the leaders than the lower tier players. Maybe they could up the exchange rate for donated Dil, since that clearly doesn't seem to be worth the donation?
Other examples would also be things like weapons. Weapons are good but not worth the prices per item in Dil. Not when we're all rich with EC and able to buy a lot of it on the exchange for "cheaper". Or worse, why by a weapon that will only be outdated this time next year?
Maybe they could take the lower selling items in the Zen store and put those into a "Holiday shop". Not mudds, but a store that comes and goes when they have in-game events. Letting you buy things like more services, boosts, cosmetics, etc for a much HIGHER Dil cost? If ships are the only thing they sell, this might allow them to regauge popularity of items or test out a model for Value/Cost estimations.
I just, from my own preferences and experiences, don't think most of the prices asked are worth the value given. Add that in with how fast the HARDCORE players build up and stockpile currencies, or LTS getting free Zen each month, and i can only imagine how crazy it must get. I'm a filthy casual and just from a few dailies and the constant events, i'm sitting on a good amount of EC and Z and it's just sitting there. Unused. Because there really isn't anything hitting the fancy enough to validate the cost. With the rolling store sales, it really makes me wonder what all the Cost/Value of the items really is, either.
If people aren't sinking their Dil fast enough or, i suppose enough in general, maybe they should go back and add more value to those sinks. If i get free Z from Dil, why would I spend it on perceived "useless" stuff that I can usually get for "useless" EC, already? An open dialog with Devs about what we WOULD spend Dil on, or what they could do to alleviate the hoarding might go a long way with getting to a solution. I know they added a thread for it but i don't recall ever seeing any Dev interaction there.
I can deny your implications that Cryptic doesn't care about the Dilithium Exchange issue. And I will advise you that such accusations skirt dangerously close to flaming/trolling.
Oh... I see... You're putting words in my mouth and making a veiled threat. I see how it is. You have a nice day now.
Nope. Not putting words in your mouth. Your "assuming Cryptic really feels it IS a problem" implies that you believe they do not. And I was cautioning you that your words could stray into false accusations that would be construed as flaming/trolling according to the rules of this forum. It's not a veiled threat, but a courtesy heads up.
They can care while still not considering it a real problem the way some of us do. We are not privy to the business decisions that dictate what gets treated as a priority. If the suits at PWE, now GearBox, have decided that having the Zen to RD ratio maxt at 1:500 is a good thing for actual Zen sales, then they would surely have instructed Cryptic not to fall all over themselves designing content that requires players to spend RD if they want to get what's at the end of it. They would not be obligated to tell us. In fact, If they came out and said that they prefer players buy all Zen going forward, there would be an epic-scale tantrum on these forums. You know it and I know it.In which case, not saying anything either way is an indication that they care.
There are many things that could be done. Under ideal circumstances. But I've been trying to caution what is and isn't possible. You want to go on daydreaming, go ahead. The rest of us will try and brainstorm actually feasible ideas.
So what is your criteria for a "feasible idea?" That way I can factor that into my daydreaming for a more productive discussion. At least, I'd be able to post something without you arbitrarily shooting it down because it doesn't meet your standards for validity.
It's not my criteria. I'm just trying to inform you on what's already come before you, so that you don't waste your time running down a rabbit hole.
I appreciate your efforts. But I have been reading this forum for years. I may have just created this account, but I am well aware of what has come before me. If I am wasting my time, then it is my time to waste. And the rabbit hole goes deeper than we can imagine, and its depths have yet to be explored.
Comments
Agreed. We know that Khitomer was the original site of the first real peace talks between theKlingon Empire and the Federation. We know it is also where the original treaty between them was brokered after the events of the Battle of Narendra III, where the Enterprise-C was lost defending a klingon outpost from Romulan attack. And now the UFP, the KDF the Cardassian Empire and the Dominion are all members of the Khitomer Alliance.
Khitomer would be a great place for the alliance to formally construct a new joint operations center. Not a military establishment, though it would play host to many strategic conferences attended by many officers in the upper echelons of Alliance command. It would become known throughout the united parts of the galaxy as a grand jewel of commerce and cooperative research. A foundational place for a brighter future to be built for all and by all.
If only Cryptic would consider doing something like that.
If we can do something similar here, it could not only help mitigate the Dilithium supply, but we could also add a Crafting Material component as well, both raw materials we find, and crafted components. That way we not only provide a Dilithium Sink, but something to give crafters things to do as well with their stockpiles of materials. And if we have some kind of community day where tasks need to be done, they can be class based ones.
And ultimately once all is said and done, probably have open projects to help with maintaining new Alliance based equipment or something. Maybe even "helping" to make the next Alliance ship.
well the ideas was to make people use the zen differently not stop buying it. although with the massive stockpiles of refined dill that might be how it would feel initially.
Massive amounts of it. Fleet Holding dilithium costs were based on the idea of even a large fleet with many participants taking a while to complete all tiers of progression. This would need to be based on the entire community of active players. So we are looking at MILLIONS of RD per project. An impossible task for one player to ever do, but with no requirement of being in a fleetand with the knowledge that the next leg of official story content will originate in the place that is being built, not to mention that there will be visible progress as the city is being built, with new important officials showing up as their area of influince in the city reaches a stage where, while not finished, is far enough along for operations to begin. Participants will see progress made and know that their contribution, no matter bow large or small, will have made the progress possible.
One thing to incentivize involvement could be the introduction of player apartments housed within the Central Spire of the city. It would be a massive skyscraper. Each floor would have several apartments with a common corridor network connecting them. The appartments themselves would be instanced, but if my appartment number is 9931, it means I would be residing on the 99th floor in apartment 31. In addition to being able to decorate the apartment as desired, it would also grant additional item storage. How much one contributes to the construction of the city would be how much purchase of it will be discounted.
Fleets who participate would also receive credit towards a floor in one of many adminiustrative buildings throughout the city. These facilities would serve a specific role revolving around Admiralty responsibilities. It should be at these facilities that our bridge officers finally be allowed to progress all the way up to Admiral, with players being the only ones to achieve Fleet Admiral status, So there would be a lot of Doff and Admiralty assignments running through these offices, though they would be highly specialized.
I spoke of meaningful gameplay that impacts the game beyond one's personal experiences. This flag office branch of content could be used to facilitate initial experiments in such mechanics, and if successful, expanded into other areas of gameplay. But having the offices be where all that sort of thing is facilitated makes it something that draws fleet participation. Fleets not participating in the building of the city can still obtain an office floor. It just won't be discounted from participation. Any individual NOT in a fleet can purchase an office as well so long as they have achieved the rank of Rear Admiral LH, but the cost will be expensive. The offices would be pre-furnished and kitted out with the right consoles and equipment based on the purpose it is to serve. Layout of all offices would be the same, but color scheme, furnishing and equipment would define the purpose.
Of course, Apartments and Offices could be added after the city is completed. Shuttles would move players between the different districts of the City. And transporter platforms as well. It's just an idea for logical extended functionality that could be made available. The game could track how much individuals and fleets have contributed and remember that value for if when apartments and offices are added.
What an amazing post. So much detail. I'd love to have a room.
I think something like this might work well as a dil sink. The big fleetz would all be competing to see who could build the tallest building.
You need to understand that the majority of Dilithium that was donated to Fleet projects was done so by Fleet leaders/owners, who were buying their Dilithium from the Exchange. Not by Fleet members. Now that the majority of Fleets have maxed out their Starbases/Holdings, those Fleet leaders/owners have no need to buy Dilithium anymore, hence the Dilithium Exchange issue we have now.
You're talking about a massive community project where no one owns it, though. What will happen is that the majority of players, just like in Fleets, will assume that someone else will invest their Dilithium in it. Since there's no true ownership, there will be no Fleet leader/owner types, who are motivated enough through ownership to use their Zen (IRL money) to buy Dilithium to invest in the donations.
Also, this seeing progression over time idea was what we were supposed to get with New Romulus. We were supposed to see the city grow and change over time. But it didn't happen. It's a static map, just like every other. If they didn't do it then, at a time when they had more staff and actually took significant time between content drops (Legacy of Romulus was months and months in development), they certainly won't do it now that they have limited personnel and time between content drops.
Apartments/player housing on some remote world aren't going to happen either. Players have been asking for player housing for years. And in Star Trek Online, the logical place to have player housing is aboard the player's starship. This is essentially the Dilithium sink idea that I floated to the devs. Starship Interiors that took the Fleet Starbase/Holdings system and personalized it, introducing new Decks ever so often. It was a massive idea that incorporated almost every system in the game from DOFFing to Crafting to mini games, even the Reputation System for various cosmetic options. I even gave them examples of how they could incorporate the art assets (environments) into existing gameplay by updating older mission maps and using them in new mission maps as well. If anyone cares to know some of the details, I'm sure y'all can find it on the forum somewhere. Point is, though, it was rejected. Not because they wouldn't love to do something like it, but because it's not something they can do. Such a thing, same as this Khitomer idea, would require massive amounts of art assets, which they don't have enough artists to produce, not to mention the program development, because even adapting an existing system still requires new programming.
I'm not saying that these types of ideas don't sound great. Some folks have come up with some really amazing things that would be so cool to see in STO. But the reality is that it just isn't feasible and so, won't happen. Whatever the solution to the Dilithium Exchange issue, it will have to be something that can be implemented relatively easily. Vanity Shields and Phoenix Boxes have been shown to make a dent in the Dilithium surplus in the past. Could making them permanently available solve the problem? Not really. It would work for awhile, sure. But eventually, players will have acquired all the Vanity Shields that they want and Dilithium will start piling up again. So, the solution has to be something easily implemented and sustainable.
It's not an easy answer, and I certainly don't know what it could possibly be, but I understand what it won't be. 🤷♀️
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
A customized starship interior, with custom NPC uniforms set by me in the tailor and all of my bridge officers wandering about sounds great to me. SWTOR offers both ship interior customization and separate player housing but I think (hazy memory after 5+ years away) it cost zen-equivalent real money not free dil-equivalent.
Uhh... you could craft a few customizations but most came from lock boxes and the store? Maybe?
There was a post while back by someone who suggested that Cryptic has no intention of fixing the issue. Because people ARE buying Zen with real money in sufficient collective quantities that its sale is profitable. If they saw it as a real problem the way that players who want to get their Zen without paying a dime of their own money see it, they would have long since designed and implemented things with steep RD cost that encourage players to spend surplus Zen to maximize the amount of RD they have available to complete the objectives ASAP.
All they have done amounts to band-aid solutions to arterial wound problems, fixing nothing.
If they will not put in the effort, then we need to accept that the DilEx as it once was is gone, and that if we want to obtain Zen quickly instead of waiting over a month before a DilEx order completes, we need to just open our wallet and spend real money.
This really is an either-or situation. Either they do what they know must be done to drive interest towards RD that people with spare Zen will trade it away, or we must open our wallet. Because the DilEx isn't really broken. It's just hit maximum RD to Zen ratio. It cannot get any worse.
I just know that things ramped up after Cryptic stopped producing content that consumed RD while still allowing Dilithium Ore to pay out in so many ways that refining at the daily cap became easy. It's flowing into the economy just fine. It isn't flowing out nearly fast enough
So, as long as we're daydreaming... The biggest demand for Dilithium in-game, that which really drove the Dilithium economy, was Fleet projects. Building Starbases and Holdings. Cryptic would need to continue adding Holdings to the Fleet System and/or expand them past Tier 5. That would stir those Fleet leaders/owners I was talking about to start trading their Zen for Dilithium to advance their Fleets again.
Personal stake is what drives players to invest their Dilithium. On a personal level, Starship Interiors could be introduced, using the Fleet System as a model, to get individual players to invest in their own player housing system. Not everyone would participate, of course, and hopefully, those would be the ones offering their Dilithium on the Exchange.
I've included in the spoiler tag some of the Starship Interiors proposal that I made for anyone interested in reading it. I'll spare the rest who aren't. 😏
It's too bad that something isn't being done with ship interiors, because most of Star Trek took place on the ship. I think it's something that would be worth investing development time in, because the work put into it could then be used as a basis for so many other things: episode mission maps, PVE/PVP queue maps, etc.
I've said before that I'd love to see Starship Interiors done the way Fleet Starbases are done, but scaled to a personal level. Fleet Starbases have their various leveling projects and cosmetic projects. Starship Interiors could work the same way with project inputs scaled to the individual rather than an entire fleet. Leveling one's Starship Interior would give a player access to more things: Bank, Email, Tailor, etc. Cosmetic projects could allow for decor in the Captain's Quarters, Ten Forward, or even allow to toggle between TOS, TMP, TNG, and 2410 aesthetics.
Fleet Starbases have holdings that can also be leveled and have cosmetic projects. On Starship Interiors this would be represented by adding new decks, for example:
Crew Deck: Captain's Quarters with possible Tailor access and trophy displays. Ten Forward with a variety of games that we've seen played in Star Trek and possibly a dance floor. Assign quarters to various BOFFS, visit them and they could give you a daily mission to be done aboard ship.
Life Sciences: a menagerie for storing and displaying pets bought and earned, possible breeding projects for said pets to be unlocked, games for scanning, detecting, identifying life forms.
Stellar Cartography: scanning games for locating, identifying various stellar phenomenon.
Sick Bay: triaging patients game (similar to the Kobali triage mission) for crew members that wander into Sick Bay.
Shuttle Bay: small craft that we own could be displayed here, switching to small craft could be done here, traveling to Fleet Holding could be done here, queueing for shuttle PVE/PVP could be done here, perhaps some unique shuttle piloting/racing missions could be done from here.
Engineering: engineering diagnostic games (warp field, plasma flow adjustments), detecting problems on the ship somewhere then going there and fixing it, a Jefferies tube scavenger hunt type game (using a blank map like Temporal Ambassador), crafting of unique items available only here.
Allow our designated Department Heads to be assigned to occupy the relevant station on board, ex) CMO would be in Sick Bay, Chief Engineer would be in Engineering.
Allow us some (at least limited) choices on crew composition. Perhaps using toggles for species, uniforms that they wear. These options could also be made available through cosmetic projects. Personally, I'd love to see the DOFF roster used to determine crew composition. Allow a toggle or slider for number of crew on a given map with 0 being an option as well. Interacting with random crew members could yield a daily mission or unique DOFF assignment.
The maps themselves could be used to update older episode missions that take place aboard a ship and future missions that need to take place aboard a ship. Also, ship boarding/repel boarders PVE/PVP queues could use the maps as well. Perhaps even a capture the flag type CPVE mission: two teams beam in, Team A captures the bridge, Team B captures engineering. First one to their goal wins.
Additionally, the Starship Interiors maps would be separate and independent from the bridge, so one could use the bridge of their choice. There could be an option to sync visuals between the bridge and interior for ships that only have a bridge and no other decks to re-skin those decks with the same aesthetics. For example, using a Hirogen ship would re-skin the Starship Interiors deck maps using Hirogen textures, using a Tholian ship would re-skin them using Tholian textures.
Unless there is a way to connect them via map moving in the turbolift, unique ship interiors would be retained as they are. They just wouldn't utilize this system. So your full TOS, Defiant, Voyager, etc. interiors would be retained and could be used separately. This proposed Starship Interiors system would be the new default interior for your ship, though. There might be uproar about that, but it's the best way to preserve previous ship interior/bridge purchases with (hopefully) minimal uproar. Perhaps have those purchases automatically unlock texturing/lighting aesthetics to give them an extra bonus. So, those canon interior aesthetics could be applied to the new interiors. It wouldn't be an exact TOS interior, but it would look like that era. It wouldn't be an exact TNG interior, but it would use that aesthetic. It wouldn't be an exact Tholian interior, but it would fit that style.
The deck/room layouts would be generic, so that they could be easily used for missions. As it is, doing a 5-man Starbase defense, the queue randomly chooses a Fleet Starbase from among the participants. Whatever level/visuals that base is in is the map that's used. Same would go for a potential 5-man ship boarding/repelling queue maps. Someone in the team's ship map will be used. The layouts are all the same, but the look might be different.
Yes, FED, KDF, and ROM would need 3 separate layouts, but only for the crew deck and engineering deck. New decks added, like holdings, could be a generic corridor with rooms branching off. What would make them unique would be the skin that's applied to them: a Starfleet skin, Klingon skin, Romulan skin as the basic default look depending on the character. Other skins would be unlocked via cosmetic projects, C-Store purchases, Lock Box ships, etc. The Reputation System could be tied into it, too: Tier 5 Reputation Project that allows for unique Starship Interior visuals.
Oh, and this would be a per character system, not account wide, unless a certain purchase unlocks for the account.
I think that threads and polls like this try to show Cryptic that there might be support to do this, that players would be willing to buy it into it if it were made. And while Cryptic does indeed want to make money, I don't think that is the real hold up here. I think that this is something they might be willing to do, if they knew how they could best implement it and get the most bang for their buck for the time and development that they'd put into it.
The best example I can point to is the Voyager interior. It's beautiful, iconic, and screen accurate. One of the reasons we got that interior with that level of detail, though, was because it was extensively used during the Delta Rising story arc missions. And so, it could be used for future story missions as well. Bonus that it could sold to the masses as a Starship Bridge/Interior.
What I've tried to do with the proposal that I made was less about how much or whether players would be willing to spend real money for it, but rather try to show Cryptic: a direction they could go to implement it; to tie it into systems that they already have; to use it as an asset for future story/mission development; how to expand on it, so that it shows potential for future growth rather than a one-and-done project; to make it an integral part of one's daily game play; and yeah, maybe there are some aspects that can be monetized, too.
We've got to give them more than just saying, "Hey, I'd buy it, if you make it." That's easy to ignore or pass on by. I want to get them interested. I want to give them an idea that gets them excited enough to say, "That's awesome! I'd love to build that into the game!"
I've had a few more ideas since then to add to it, but that's the bulk of the proposal. So, if we're just daydreaming ideas to deal with the Dilithium dilemma, then this is what I'd like to see done, and what I believe would be the best, most realistic solution to the problem. 🤷🏼♀️
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
I was addressing quirk, who is apparently fine with just daydreaming solutions, instead of trying to actually solve the problem.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
I am just a member of the STO community. I am not a developer. Anything any of us can do here is just daydreaming. Only Cryptic is in any kind of poisition to take real action.
Can you deny that band-aid solutions won't fix the actual problem?
Can you deny that the actions Cryptic has taken since the DilEx went sideways have just been band-aid solutions?
Can you deny that the solution to the problem, assuming Cryptic really feels it IS a problem, will involve them taking action in soliud development of gameplay mechanics (whatever form that may take) to give people with spare Zen a reason to trade away that Zen rather than just hold onto it?
If you can honestly deny these things and be able to cite actual proof that the denial is valid, then I will gladly concede the point. Otherwise, I shall maintain my opinion of what I feel Cryptic could do to turn this thing around.
Unless of course they no longer wish to hold to the narrative of time and money being interchangable in their free to play games.
Cryptic's decisions to dial back the production of things that make RD useful is what resulted in the DilEx reaching critical mass. From my chair, I can only see Cryptic deciding to once again start production of things that make RD useful as the way to turn it back around. I don't really care what they do. But if they mean to fix this, they just need to do something decisive.
There are many things that could be done. Under ideal circumstances. But I've been trying to caution what is and isn't possible. You want to go on daydreaming, go ahead. The rest of us will try and brainstorm actually feasible ideas.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
Oh... I see... You're putting words in my mouth and making a veiled threat. I see how it is. You have a nice day now.
So what is your criteria for a "feasible idea?" That way I can factor that into my daydreaming for a more productive discussion. At least, I'd be able to post something without you arbitrarily shooting it down because it doesn't meet your standards for validity.
No. baddmoon's not putting words in your mouth. Its pretty much fact as when people do start going down that road of throwing out accusastions, it will turn into flaming. People can say things all they want about "just asking questions" or whatever, but at the end of the day its the INTENT behind those words. And Intent doesn't always translate well via text alone. And when accusations start coming out, 9 times out of 10 its with malicious intent. That is when we mods have to step in because it takes on the appearance of an attack, which is against forum rules.
It is alright to express frustraition, however you have to be mindful of HOW you say it. It is not censorship or violating freedom of speech when ITS IN THE RULES that have been around since the fourms started, and every user agrees to when they join. You break the rules, expect to get slammed for it. You KNOWINGLY break the rules, and try to hide behind something else to justify such behavior... you're still gonna get slammed for breaking the established rules of the forum.
So in essence... baddmoon was not putting words in your mouth and making veiled threats. Baddmoon was warning you that you're skirting closer to potential rule violations as a warning to tone it down so you can keep a civil discussion going.
Nope. Not putting words in your mouth. Your "assuming Cryptic really feels it IS a problem" implies that you believe they do not. And I was cautioning you that your words could stray into false accusations that would be construed as flaming/trolling according to the rules of this forum. It's not a veiled threat, but a courtesy heads up.
It's not my criteria. I'm just trying to inform you on what's already come before you, so that you don't waste your time running down a rabbit hole.
But speaking of veiled threats, your PM was obviously one. I'm no fool either. I can read between the lines. And you may find that you're tangling with the wrong chica.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
Okay
That has already been done, many times, with the fleet starbase and their holdings - the wealthy players in STO have DOZENS of characters that are completely maxed out on all manner of currencies, not just dilithium.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
That means that the projects will be completed, even if a significant group is not interested in participating. But it is important that this hypothetical application of the holdings mechanic is openly available to every single player, regardless of whether or not they are in a fleet. I know that the need for fleet membership has been off-putting to some people who prefer to just enjoy the game without getting involved at any level with fleet politics.
Whether what I suggest here is used as a solution for the DilEx problem, or just to give players a new avenue to go down with their characters, it would expose the mechanics to those who may not have personally experienced them because they were locked behind a wall of conditional exclusion.
Ah, so dilithium donations are to be left to "other" players. This is why I asked above if donations were on a per player basis.
Nobody would be forced to donate anything if they don't want to. But to encourage them to do so, the game could track how much a player has contributed. At certain intervals, valuable account-based rewards could be offered. These items would be on the RD store for the city, to prevent them from being exclusives, but those who donate to the construction efforts could be given what amounts to in-store credit. If the fleet holding system offered something like that, more people might have contributed. Instead, the holdings demanded RD donations to go towards unlocking fleet stores that turned around and demanded more RD to purchase stuff. The sense of reward and accomplishment in that regard was minimal, if it existed at all. That cannot happen with something like this, where the outflow of RD from players must be worth it. It cannot be all take and no give.
Well that's a relief. My own focus is on saving up as much dil as possible for the Legendary ships.
I'm not going to lie, I'm new to this thread but reading through this in a single go, that DID sound more threat than warning, whether that was the intent or not.
For me, personally, I really think they SHOULD remove the cap and for all the wrong reasons. Maybe they should let it fail, just so they can use it to prove the point of WHY the cap is on there.
I've always thought it was a matter of value. Dil is more valuable for Zen than it is for anything else, more so at the prices they ask for things (both Dil/Zen). As BMR stated, the dil for fleet projects was likely done by the leaders than the lower tier players. Maybe they could up the exchange rate for donated Dil, since that clearly doesn't seem to be worth the donation?
Other examples would also be things like weapons. Weapons are good but not worth the prices per item in Dil. Not when we're all rich with EC and able to buy a lot of it on the exchange for "cheaper". Or worse, why by a weapon that will only be outdated this time next year?
Maybe they could take the lower selling items in the Zen store and put those into a "Holiday shop". Not mudds, but a store that comes and goes when they have in-game events. Letting you buy things like more services, boosts, cosmetics, etc for a much HIGHER Dil cost? If ships are the only thing they sell, this might allow them to regauge popularity of items or test out a model for Value/Cost estimations.
I just, from my own preferences and experiences, don't think most of the prices asked are worth the value given. Add that in with how fast the HARDCORE players build up and stockpile currencies, or LTS getting free Zen each month, and i can only imagine how crazy it must get. I'm a filthy casual and just from a few dailies and the constant events, i'm sitting on a good amount of EC and Z and it's just sitting there. Unused. Because there really isn't anything hitting the fancy enough to validate the cost. With the rolling store sales, it really makes me wonder what all the Cost/Value of the items really is, either.
If people aren't sinking their Dil fast enough or, i suppose enough in general, maybe they should go back and add more value to those sinks. If i get free Z from Dil, why would I spend it on perceived "useless" stuff that I can usually get for "useless" EC, already? An open dialog with Devs about what we WOULD spend Dil on, or what they could do to alleviate the hoarding might go a long way with getting to a solution. I know they added a thread for it but i don't recall ever seeing any Dev interaction there.
They can care while still not considering it a real problem the way some of us do. We are not privy to the business decisions that dictate what gets treated as a priority. If the suits at PWE, now GearBox, have decided that having the Zen to RD ratio maxt at 1:500 is a good thing for actual Zen sales, then they would surely have instructed Cryptic not to fall all over themselves designing content that requires players to spend RD if they want to get what's at the end of it. They would not be obligated to tell us. In fact, If they came out and said that they prefer players buy all Zen going forward, there would be an epic-scale tantrum on these forums. You know it and I know it.In which case, not saying anything either way is an indication that they care.
I appreciate your efforts. But I have been reading this forum for years. I may have just created this account, but I am well aware of what has come before me. If I am wasting my time, then it is my time to waste. And the rabbit hole goes deeper than we can imagine, and its depths have yet to be explored.
and change the effects of weapons. maybe thise could be a good dil sinks.