I also have 20 years of MMO gameplay under my belt. I've just learned to see things differently.
Let's not argue about it, though. It will solve nothing. We can both agree that this is an issue that will not be easy to fix. Earlier in this thread, that moderator who mentioned the FCT accused the person who got banned of daydreaming instead of actually figuring out how to solve the problem. That person replied that he was just a member of the community and that it is Cryptic who are the only ones in a position to actually solve the problem. That's a very true statement. We can come up with all sorts of different ideas, and each of us can think we know the best part of the issue to tackle. But at the end of the day, only Cryptic knows what really is involved, and whether or not they have the resourcs and./or support from their bosses to do the actual work.
We'll just have to see what happens.
I have no interest in insulting anyone, we should be able to debate an issue, I know that is a skill being lost in today's society, however that was what I was attempting to do, stating my reasons for my position.
I was looking for a detailed counter to my position, to better understand your reasons.
I strongly feel a healthy functional in-game economy is second only to bringing in new (and popular) content.
This has been proven out over and over again in other games, going way back to Anarchy Online, I am not trying to argue with you over it, just trying to make a case that when FTP players cannot engage in economy and are punished for not paying into the game with cash (rather than effort/grinding) it hastens the demise of MMOs.
Perhaps a good counter argument would be the WoW model, it is nearly impossible to enjoy that game without paying for it. I would have to research that as I never did more than briefly try the game and decide it was not for me. I have heard that more recent new content is not so popular with players and that, in addition to being unable to interact with FTPers in a meaningful way as they are level capped, has cost them millions of players in recent years.
In this galaxy there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in the universe, three million million galaxies like this.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
I have heard that more recent new content is not so popular with players and that, in addition to being unable to interact with FTPers in a meaningful way as they are level capped, has cost them millions of players in recent years.
Among other things. A lot of WoW players actually migrated over to FF14.
IMO WoW's story has been so scatterbrained after Wrath of the Lich King that it kinda doesn't make any cohesive sense anymore. And with how some of the later Expansions have pretty much been lackluster... WoW is not the MMO King anymore. And lets not forget the controvertial stuff that happened behind the scenes at Blizzard, which also caused a mass exodus to other games.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Its called Supply and Demand. There is a TON of Supply, but little Demand for Dilithium.
Not just that, there is also a lot of demand for Zen with ever higher prices and things to buy and - apparently - only limited, maybe even decreasing supply.
I also have 20 years of MMO gameplay under my belt. I've just learned to see things differently.
Let's not argue about it, though. It will solve nothing. We can both agree that this is an issue that will not be easy to fix. Earlier in this thread, that moderator who mentioned the FCT accused the person who got banned of daydreaming instead of actually figuring out how to solve the problem. That person replied that he was just a member of the community and that it is Cryptic who are the only ones in a position to actually solve the problem. That's a very true statement. We can come up with all sorts of different ideas, and each of us can think we know the best part of the issue to tackle. But at the end of the day, only Cryptic knows what really is involved, and whether or not they have the resourcs and./or support from their bosses to do the actual work.
We'll just have to see what happens.
I have no interest in insulting anyone, we should be able to debate an issue, I know that is a skill being lost in today's society, however that was what I was attempting to do, stating my reasons for my position.
I was looking for a detailed counter to my position, to better understand your reasons.
I strongly feel a healthy functional in-game economy is second only to bringing in new (and popular) content.
This has been proven out over and over again in other games, going way back to Anarchy Online, I am not trying to argue with you over it, just trying to make a case that when FTP players cannot engage in economy and are punished for not paying into the game with cash (rather than effort/grinding) it hastens the demise of MMOs.
Perhaps a good counter argument would be the WoW model, it is nearly impossible to enjoy that game without paying for it. I would have to research that as I never did more than briefly try the game and decide it was not for me. I have heard that more recent new content is not so popular with players and that, in addition to being unable to interact with FTPers in a meaningful way as they are level capped, has cost them millions of players in recent years.
Except that doing what you suggest has done nothing but make the 'space-rich' richer and the 'space-poor' poorer and we only need to see what happened when they raised the EC cap. The game needs F2P players, if you reduce their 'earnings' you reduce the incentives to play and the conversion value favours only paying players. It's basic economics. This game has gone 12 years at the same cap and still enjoys a healthy population, and unlike alot of other games, this game does not require you to convert Dil to Zen. The moment you increase that cap, the Zen sellers will only buy at the cap due to the amount of Dil available. The cap will be hit within days, if not hours. (Sorry Badmoon...I know it's FTC, but it needs saying).
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
I have heard that more recent new content is not so popular with players and that, in addition to being unable to interact with FTPers in a meaningful way as they are level capped, has cost them millions of players in recent years.
Among other things. A lot of WoW players actually migrated over to FF14.
IMO WoW's story has been so scatterbrained after Wrath of the Lich King that it kinda doesn't make any cohesive sense anymore. And with how some of the later Expansions have pretty much been lackluster... WoW is not the MMO King anymore. And lets not forget the controvertial stuff that happened behind the scenes at Blizzard, which also caused a mass exodus to other games.
It seems even what I would have considered a "best case" counter to my argument on the essential need of an inclusive to FTPers economy helps to prove my point. ;P
What you detail is very damaging I am sure, but the foundation for the game's demise began with the severity with which they treated FTPers, excluding them from the majority of game content and interactions. Then they messed up the expansions and that one two punch has gone a long way to killing off the game. Impressive accomplishment considering how many millions devoted themselves to that game at one point and put plenty of time and money into it.
Looking at some stats, in 2008, 2010, 2014 with new releases WoW pushed over 10million subscribers, without lowering too much in between those years. I appears with the release of Legion and moving forward, their subscriptions have continued to decline, to about 4 million today.
My theory in addition to the bad content you mentioned and internal issues is the fact that WoW did not adapt to the times, most well off MMOs are Free to play, if you cap new/free players, if you exclude new/free players from viable (grinding) ways to access the majority of the content, the MMO will suffer and eventually hit the near-dead stage.
In this galaxy there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in the universe, three million million galaxies like this.
Its called Supply and Demand. There is a TON of Supply, but little Demand for Dilithium.
Not just that, there is also a lot of demand for Zen with ever higher prices and things to buy and - apparently - only limited, maybe even decreasing supply.
Exactly, so the value of the Dil has gone down.
That means instead of being artificially capped at 500, it needs to find a new exchange rate equitable to that inflation (or deflation of Dil value).
There was a time when the conversion rate would move up and down from the low 200s to the mid 300s.
Today it would probably find a new level somewhere between 700 and 1,000.
Nothing wrong with that, as the costs of things on the Marketplace and Zen store have gone up, the conversion amount of Dil should have gone up as well.
Instead they have capped it, breaking a critical part of the game's economical mechanics which the more advanced players know about, use, or in the case of the current situation, are being frustrated by. Frustrated players have a tendency to wander off to other games.
In this galaxy there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in the universe, three million million galaxies like this.
Increasing the Dilithium Exchange rate cap is an FCT topic and I'm once again going to say that you should move the conversation along to more productive talk or I will have to close this thread per the FCT. Thank you.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
It seems even what I would have considered a "best case" counter to my argument on the essential need of an inclusive to FTPers economy helps to prove my point. ;P
WoW never had F2P from what I recall. Its a subscription game. If there is a F2P element its so limited that its really just a glorified demo and not worth anything.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
It seems even what I would have considered a "best case" counter to my argument on the essential need of an inclusive to FTPers economy helps to prove my point. ;P
WoW never had F2P from what I recall. Its a subscription game. If there is a F2P element its so limited that its really just a glorified demo and not worth anything.
They did introduce what they called "F2P" a few years back. It let you play for free, with limitations, until level 20 - which takes maybe a couple days. No idea if that's still in play.
It seems even what I would have considered a "best case" counter to my argument on the essential need of an inclusive to FTPers economy helps to prove my point. ;P
WoW never had F2P from what I recall. Its a subscription game. If there is a F2P element its so limited that its really just a glorified demo and not worth anything.
They did introduce what they called "F2P" a few years back. It let you play for free, with limitations, until level 20 - which takes maybe a couple days. No idea if that's still in play.
Which is just a demo, like the demo for FF14. Those try-before-you-buy temporary players aren't part of any time-vs-money economy like STOs F2P dil farmers.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
Which is just a demo, like the demo for FF14. Those try-before-you-buy temporary players aren't part of any time-vs-money economy like STOs F2P dil farmers.
I will point out, however, that FF14's F2P model is far more generous than WoW. It grants access to the Heavensward expansion with a lv 60 cap. You just can't actually send out friend requests (can receive and accept however), and I think you can't join a Free Company (guild). But story and dungeons through Heavensward expansion are available.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
> @grebjac#7160 said: > I can vouch for this. Comparing free trials for other MMOs to STO is like comparing apples to oranges. At least in terms of brainstorming a solution to the Dilithium Exchange's problem. > > The only thing that will fix it, as others have poinbted out, is for Cryptic to introduce new content that has RD costs associated with it, as well as potentially modifying existing content to the same effect. > > Even Space Barbie needs to be taken into account. Every time someone locks in a change to their character's appearance, it should cost somewhere between 25 and 500 RD. Some will hate that idea, but if the exchange is ever going to regain equilibrium, then there MUST be RD costs associated with as many different elements of gameplay as possible. It isn't like RD is hard to come by. But it's got to have a use for all players, whether or not they spend a penny of their own money on the game. The folks with spare zen have to have reasons to want to trade it away for RD. So the more RD sinks attached to things all over the game, the more viable RD will become as a tradable currency. If we want this issue to be fixed, then we need to be willing to make some concessions so the solution can be viable.
> @rattler2 said: > I will point out, however, that FF14's F2P model is far more generous than WoW. It grants access to the Heavensward expansion with a lv 60 cap. You just can't actually send out friend requests (can receive and accept however), and I think you can't join a Free Company (guild). But story and dungeons through Heavensward expansion are available.
Can we please stay on the subject of Star Trek Online, you are going off topic.
Why not removing the player cap to create a fleet. If everyone whom want to could create their own fleet, they would have to spend a lot of dill to rank up their fleet projects. Of course the amount of dill require for said project could be slightly reduced to matched the number of players in the fleet. Then Monthly events for fleet and alliance could be created using already available assets, with exclusive reward to those event. (ie..resources toward fleet projects). Also why not allow players to trade amoungst each others using dill for currency.
I'd quite like the cap removed too, as I just can't be bothered with having to engage the help of four other player accounts to create a fleet. Or maybe make it so those five players you need can be five (or more) of your own characters instead or something.
As being a part of other people's fleets to date, I've had a largely good experience, with the occasional exception of being booted out for no apparent reason after donating rather a lot. Most of these fleets are either maxed out now or very nearly are and don't need too much to keep ticking over. While I don't have huge stocks of dilithium ore or refined dil, I've been hoarding fleet dil for a long while now, with a view to working on my own, one of these days. Enough to get off to a great start at least. At this point, I'd be more likely to donate refined dil to my own fleet than someone else's.
> I was looking for a detailed counter to my position, to better understand your reasons.
I understand your perspective. And I do agree that a strong in-game economy is important.
But...
That cannot be achieved by making changes to either the DR value cap on the exchange or tho the amount of RD that can be refined, which is what your suggestions included as key points.
We are dealing with an in-game economy that is heavily influenced by real-world currency.
The original concept of DR and Zen was to create an interchange between time and money spent. The more you play (spend time) the more Dilithium Ore you get. But because some spend an intense amount of time playing games, a method for leveling the playing field needed to be introduced. That was the daily refinement cap. It regulates the amount RD coming into the economy. Sure, every toon can refine that amount per day, and some players have MANY toons, in theory defeating the purpose. But no one toon can obtain more than the capped amount on any given day. So it does remain a solid measuring element.
When the Dilithium exchange was moving efficiently, there were thinbgs in the game calling for massive amounts of RD over an extended period. As far as I can tell, Cryptic has stopped producing those things, and it doesn't seem liuke they have plans to resume their production. The few things that they have done since the RD factor hit 500 have been small, one-time RD purchases that MIGHT create demand, but it hasn't lasted, and with no other similar items forthcoming (as far as I can tell), any corrective progress to the exchange rate is unsustainable. Meaning that it shifted a little for a brief time, then shifted right back.
No matter how much RD we can obtain, or how high the exchange rate can go, it won't change the fact that as long as there is nothing desirable or compelling on offer for RD that players who spent money for Zen to get something offered for Zen and have some left over, then those people will not want to part with their Zen rather than hold onto it for seed for their next C-store purchase.
We're looking at real life market forces at play here in terms of collapsing currencies and sustainable production/consumption relationships.
If an equilibrium between RD and Zen is to ever be regained, Cryptic must return to an equilibrium in production of stuff that calls for Zen and stuff that calls for RD. Otherwise, the only currency of actual value to players will be Zen. Whether or not people who want to be able to trade RD for Zen want to except that or not is irrelevsnt.
This is not a theory. It is an irrefutable fact. I cannot pretend that it is not just to accomodate any ideas I might have that do not factor the fact into their logic.
Can you see my reasoning now? If you see any flaws in it, please let me know, and I'll see if I can address them.
This I can understand and certainly is a good counter to my viewpoint.
I appreciate that there is a limited amount of need for Dil in the game, and that veteran players can probably produce a large amount of it over a number of characters that they have on their account.
While there are Fleet projects and personal items requiring Dil, there is not enough need to bring the conversion rate down.
The cap then has little to do with it.
I appreciate you explaining this to me.
In this galaxy there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in the universe, three million million galaxies like this.
Increasing the Dilithium Exchange rate cap is an FCT topic and I'm once again going to say that you should move the conversation along to more productive talk or I will have to close this thread per the FCT. Thank you.
Sorry about that, not a big forum participant, this issue just caught my attention after returning from a rather long absence, I believe I have caught up to the facts as they pertain to this matter and better understand the reasons behind it.
I appreciate your patience.
In this galaxy there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in the universe, three million million galaxies like this.
> @grebjac#7160 said:
> I can vouch for this. Comparing free trials for other MMOs to STO is like comparing apples to oranges. At least in terms of brainstorming a solution to the Dilithium Exchange's problem.
>
> The only thing that will fix it, as others have poinbted out, is for Cryptic to introduce new content that has RD costs associated with it, as well as potentially modifying existing content to the same effect.
>
> Even Space Barbie needs to be taken into account. Every time someone locks in a change to their character's appearance, it should cost somewhere between 25 and 500 RD. Some will hate that idea, but if the exchange is ever going to regain equilibrium, then there MUST be RD costs associated with as many different elements of gameplay as possible. It isn't like RD is hard to come by. But it's got to have a use for all players, whether or not they spend a penny of their own money on the game. The folks with spare zen have to have reasons to want to trade it away for RD. So the more RD sinks attached to things all over the game, the more viable RD will become as a tradable currency. If we want this issue to be fixed, then we need to be willing to make some concessions so the solution can be viable.
That sounds feasible
Agreed, I like the Space Barbie idea, or a new conversion of say 10,000 RD for a Lobi Crystal, yes that is expensive, but it would give new value for that RD... might increase the demand a bit.
In this galaxy there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in the universe, three million million galaxies like this.
Ok saw this in another thread I think it has merit here... Using Dil to reduce time gates on endeavors (and i would add grinds)
just spitballing, but say reducing the cooldown once every 24 hours in 1-2-4- hour increments for X amount of dilithium
Here's another idea for creating a long-0running and repetitive RD sink:
Use the Utopia Planitia shipyards to actually build starships currently sold on the C-store that are lower than the current top-tier. Half of the cost would be RD and the other half Zen. The Zen part would be half of the C-store cost. A 2500Z ship would cost 625000RD and 1250 Zen
The ship could be retrieved as a flyable hero ship, as an admiralty card or both, Selectable at completion. Interface would work like a fleet holding project, where an individual can donate as much or as little at any given time until all components are satisfied. Crewing the ship would take the form of DOffs that could be donated. As well as the inclusion of a wide variety commodities that make sense, like computers, shield generators that sort of thing. Those things can be obtainable with energy credits, which are easy to come by
All current top-tier ships would remain exclusive to the C-store.
Do you mean to sell existing tier 5 ships for half-zen, half-dil, or to create new tier 5 versions of existing tier 6 ships yo sell that way?
I don't think the second option could happen since it requires a fair amount of developer work to create a ship that most players will not want. It certainly won't happen for any of the special ships like the Connies or other lock box, prom pack, or Legendary ships.
Or do you mean to sell the existing T6 ships for a mix of dil and zen? That would be a form of Cryptic paying players zen for their dil, which doesn't make business sense. Dil-for-zen must be paid for by other players not Cryptic.
The only thing that will fix it, as others have poinbted out, is for Cryptic to introduce new content that has RD costs associated with it, as well as potentially modifying existing content to the same effect.
New content? Like missions? No. That starts to become too much like pay-to-play, regardless that you're talking about paying in Dilithium, which goes against the current free-to-play model.
Even Space Barbie needs to be taken into account. Every time someone locks in a change to their character's appearance, it should cost somewhere between 25 and 500 RD. Some will hate that idea, but if the exchange is ever going to regain equilibrium, then there MUST be RD costs associated with as many different elements of gameplay as possible. It isn't like RD is hard to come by. But it's got to have a use for all players, whether or not they spend a penny of their own money on the game. The folks with spare zen have to have reasons to want to trade it away for RD. So the more RD sinks attached to things all over the game, the more viable RD will become as a tradable currency. If we want this issue to be fixed, then we need to be willing to make some concessions so the solution can be viable.
Again, no. There are many aspects of the game that used to cost to accomplish: costume changes, name changes of BOFFs, transwarp, etc. Granted they cost in EC not Dilithium. The point, though, is the devs intentionally removed those costs to the players. It would be ludicrous to reinstitute those costs and charge in Dilithium.
Another thing they could do is put a 30-day unlock on some UI elements like Admiralty, DOffing and R&D using an RD pricetag would be a good move.
They can have this functionality in ship interiors, thus giving a reason to visit them while adding a convenience-based RD sink to the game. And if people start actually using ship interiors instead of the convenience unlocks demand for new ship interiors may pick up, and Cryptic might start making more and selling them for Zen like they used to.
I would say a reasonable RD price for the unlock would be 15000. That's based on 500RD per day for 30 days. The unlock would apply to locked UIU items, individually per character. This works out to under six days of refining dilithium at the base cap of 8000 per day. On the Dilithium Exchange, this would result in up to 90 Zen moving in exchange for 45000 total RD.
Wait. Now you want to remove the convenience of the UI and force players to use their ship interior to run Admiralty, DOFFing, and R&D? Again, that is ridiculous. DOFFing used to be done from the ship interior, but players complained about the inconvenience of having to go to their bridge. So the devs moved it to the UI. You want to walk that back and then charge players for a convenience that they've been using for free for the past 10+ years? Sorry, I'm not wanting to have to put out those forum fires.
Here's another idea for creating a long-0running and repetitive RD sink:
Use the Utopia Planitia shipyards to actually build starships currently sold on the C-store that are lower than the current top-tier. Half of the cost would be RD and the other half Zen. The Zen part would be half of the C-store cost. A 2500Z ship would cost 625000RD and 1250 Zen
The ship could be retrieved as a flyable hero ship, as an admiralty card or both, Selectable at completion. Interface would work like a fleet holding project, where an individual can donate as much or as little at any given time until all components are satisfied. Crewing the ship would take the form of DOffs that could be donated. As well as the inclusion of a wide variety commodities that make sense, like computers, shield generators that sort of thing. Those things can be obtainable with energy credits, which are easy to come by
All current top-tier ships would remain exclusive to the C-store.
Are you referring to T1-5 ships? T1-5 C-Store ships? Ships that Zen is required for? Granted those ships may not be bought anymore like they were in the past, but we don't really know. But you're asking them to voluntarily give up half the potential profits on those sales? Given that there are 20%-75% sales all the time, players would just wait for one of those and use it in combination with your already 50% cut in cost. They'd barely make anything off those ships then.
I'm beginning to wonder whether you're actually looking for ways to put Cryptic out of business and/or get the game shut down.🤔
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Why not removing the player cap to create a fleet. If everyone whom want to could create their own fleet, they would have to spend a lot of dill to rank up their fleet projects.
I'd quite like the cap removed too, as I just can't be bothered with having to engage the help of four other player accounts to create a fleet. Or maybe make it so those five players you need can be five (or more) of your own characters instead or something.
This has more merit than anything else suggested so far. Fleet Starbase projects are what the majority of Dilithium was sunk into and kept the economy healthy. After the majority of established Fleets completed their Starbases and had nothing to invest Dilithium in, the exchange rate started to climb as Dilithium began to build up.
The devs have stated that they're not likely to create more Holdings, but something as massive as the Fleet System is what is needed to create the demand for Dilithium. A potentially easy "fix" might be to open up individuals to starting their own lone Fleets. New Fleet Holdings might not be possible, but an influx of brand new Fleets into the game could sink a lot of Dilithium. I think I may ask about this possibility.
Ok saw this in another thread I think it has merit here... Using Dil to reduce time gates on endeavors (and i would add grinds)
just spitballing, but say reducing the cooldown once every 24 hours in 1-2-4- hour increments for X amount of dilithium
Creating a convenience that we've not had before has merit as well. Certainly better than removing a convenience and then reintroducing it with a charge.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Comments
I have no interest in insulting anyone, we should be able to debate an issue, I know that is a skill being lost in today's society, however that was what I was attempting to do, stating my reasons for my position.
I was looking for a detailed counter to my position, to better understand your reasons.
I strongly feel a healthy functional in-game economy is second only to bringing in new (and popular) content.
This has been proven out over and over again in other games, going way back to Anarchy Online, I am not trying to argue with you over it, just trying to make a case that when FTP players cannot engage in economy and are punished for not paying into the game with cash (rather than effort/grinding) it hastens the demise of MMOs.
Perhaps a good counter argument would be the WoW model, it is nearly impossible to enjoy that game without paying for it. I would have to research that as I never did more than briefly try the game and decide it was not for me. I have heard that more recent new content is not so popular with players and that, in addition to being unable to interact with FTPers in a meaningful way as they are level capped, has cost them millions of players in recent years.
Among other things. A lot of WoW players actually migrated over to FF14.
IMO WoW's story has been so scatterbrained after Wrath of the Lich King that it kinda doesn't make any cohesive sense anymore. And with how some of the later Expansions have pretty much been lackluster... WoW is not the MMO King anymore. And lets not forget the controvertial stuff that happened behind the scenes at Blizzard, which also caused a mass exodus to other games.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Not just that, there is also a lot of demand for Zen with ever higher prices and things to buy and - apparently - only limited, maybe even decreasing supply.
Except that doing what you suggest has done nothing but make the 'space-rich' richer and the 'space-poor' poorer and we only need to see what happened when they raised the EC cap. The game needs F2P players, if you reduce their 'earnings' you reduce the incentives to play and the conversion value favours only paying players. It's basic economics. This game has gone 12 years at the same cap and still enjoys a healthy population, and unlike alot of other games, this game does not require you to convert Dil to Zen. The moment you increase that cap, the Zen sellers will only buy at the cap due to the amount of Dil available. The cap will be hit within days, if not hours. (Sorry Badmoon...I know it's FTC, but it needs saying).
It seems even what I would have considered a "best case" counter to my argument on the essential need of an inclusive to FTPers economy helps to prove my point. ;P
What you detail is very damaging I am sure, but the foundation for the game's demise began with the severity with which they treated FTPers, excluding them from the majority of game content and interactions. Then they messed up the expansions and that one two punch has gone a long way to killing off the game. Impressive accomplishment considering how many millions devoted themselves to that game at one point and put plenty of time and money into it.
Looking at some stats, in 2008, 2010, 2014 with new releases WoW pushed over 10million subscribers, without lowering too much in between those years. I appears with the release of Legion and moving forward, their subscriptions have continued to decline, to about 4 million today.
My theory in addition to the bad content you mentioned and internal issues is the fact that WoW did not adapt to the times, most well off MMOs are Free to play, if you cap new/free players, if you exclude new/free players from viable (grinding) ways to access the majority of the content, the MMO will suffer and eventually hit the near-dead stage.
Exactly, so the value of the Dil has gone down.
That means instead of being artificially capped at 500, it needs to find a new exchange rate equitable to that inflation (or deflation of Dil value).
There was a time when the conversion rate would move up and down from the low 200s to the mid 300s.
Today it would probably find a new level somewhere between 700 and 1,000.
Nothing wrong with that, as the costs of things on the Marketplace and Zen store have gone up, the conversion amount of Dil should have gone up as well.
Instead they have capped it, breaking a critical part of the game's economical mechanics which the more advanced players know about, use, or in the case of the current situation, are being frustrated by. Frustrated players have a tendency to wander off to other games.
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WoW never had F2P from what I recall. Its a subscription game. If there is a F2P element its so limited that its really just a glorified demo and not worth anything.
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Which is just a demo, like the demo for FF14. Those try-before-you-buy temporary players aren't part of any time-vs-money economy like STOs F2P dil farmers.
I will point out, however, that FF14's F2P model is far more generous than WoW. It grants access to the Heavensward expansion with a lv 60 cap. You just can't actually send out friend requests (can receive and accept however), and I think you can't join a Free Company (guild). But story and dungeons through Heavensward expansion are available.
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> I can vouch for this. Comparing free trials for other MMOs to STO is like comparing apples to oranges. At least in terms of brainstorming a solution to the Dilithium Exchange's problem.
>
> The only thing that will fix it, as others have poinbted out, is for Cryptic to introduce new content that has RD costs associated with it, as well as potentially modifying existing content to the same effect.
>
> Even Space Barbie needs to be taken into account. Every time someone locks in a change to their character's appearance, it should cost somewhere between 25 and 500 RD. Some will hate that idea, but if the exchange is ever going to regain equilibrium, then there MUST be RD costs associated with as many different elements of gameplay as possible. It isn't like RD is hard to come by. But it's got to have a use for all players, whether or not they spend a penny of their own money on the game. The folks with spare zen have to have reasons to want to trade it away for RD. So the more RD sinks attached to things all over the game, the more viable RD will become as a tradable currency. If we want this issue to be fixed, then we need to be willing to make some concessions so the solution can be viable.
That sounds feasible
> I will point out, however, that FF14's F2P model is far more generous than WoW. It grants access to the Heavensward expansion with a lv 60 cap. You just can't actually send out friend requests (can receive and accept however), and I think you can't join a Free Company (guild). But story and dungeons through Heavensward expansion are available.
Can we please stay on the subject of Star Trek Online, you are going off topic.
I'd quite like the cap removed too, as I just can't be bothered with having to engage the help of four other player accounts to create a fleet. Or maybe make it so those five players you need can be five (or more) of your own characters instead or something.
As being a part of other people's fleets to date, I've had a largely good experience, with the occasional exception of being booted out for no apparent reason after donating rather a lot. Most of these fleets are either maxed out now or very nearly are and don't need too much to keep ticking over. While I don't have huge stocks of dilithium ore or refined dil, I've been hoarding fleet dil for a long while now, with a view to working on my own, one of these days. Enough to get off to a great start at least. At this point, I'd be more likely to donate refined dil to my own fleet than someone else's.
This I can understand and certainly is a good counter to my viewpoint.
I appreciate that there is a limited amount of need for Dil in the game, and that veteran players can probably produce a large amount of it over a number of characters that they have on their account.
While there are Fleet projects and personal items requiring Dil, there is not enough need to bring the conversion rate down.
The cap then has little to do with it.
I appreciate you explaining this to me.
Sorry about that, not a big forum participant, this issue just caught my attention after returning from a rather long absence, I believe I have caught up to the facts as they pertain to this matter and better understand the reasons behind it.
I appreciate your patience.
Agreed, I like the Space Barbie idea, or a new conversion of say 10,000 RD for a Lobi Crystal, yes that is expensive, but it would give new value for that RD... might increase the demand a bit.
just spitballing, but say reducing the cooldown once every 24 hours in 1-2-4- hour increments for X amount of dilithium
Do you mean to sell existing tier 5 ships for half-zen, half-dil, or to create new tier 5 versions of existing tier 6 ships yo sell that way?
I don't think the second option could happen since it requires a fair amount of developer work to create a ship that most players will not want. It certainly won't happen for any of the special ships like the Connies or other lock box, prom pack, or Legendary ships.
Or do you mean to sell the existing T6 ships for a mix of dil and zen? That would be a form of Cryptic paying players zen for their dil, which doesn't make business sense. Dil-for-zen must be paid for by other players not Cryptic.
New content? Like missions? No. That starts to become too much like pay-to-play, regardless that you're talking about paying in Dilithium, which goes against the current free-to-play model.
Again, no. There are many aspects of the game that used to cost to accomplish: costume changes, name changes of BOFFs, transwarp, etc. Granted they cost in EC not Dilithium. The point, though, is the devs intentionally removed those costs to the players. It would be ludicrous to reinstitute those costs and charge in Dilithium.
Wait. Now you want to remove the convenience of the UI and force players to use their ship interior to run Admiralty, DOFFing, and R&D? Again, that is ridiculous. DOFFing used to be done from the ship interior, but players complained about the inconvenience of having to go to their bridge. So the devs moved it to the UI. You want to walk that back and then charge players for a convenience that they've been using for free for the past 10+ years? Sorry, I'm not wanting to have to put out those forum fires.
Are you referring to T1-5 ships? T1-5 C-Store ships? Ships that Zen is required for? Granted those ships may not be bought anymore like they were in the past, but we don't really know. But you're asking them to voluntarily give up half the potential profits on those sales? Given that there are 20%-75% sales all the time, players would just wait for one of those and use it in combination with your already 50% cut in cost. They'd barely make anything off those ships then.
I'm beginning to wonder whether you're actually looking for ways to put Cryptic out of business and/or get the game shut down.🤔
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This has more merit than anything else suggested so far. Fleet Starbase projects are what the majority of Dilithium was sunk into and kept the economy healthy. After the majority of established Fleets completed their Starbases and had nothing to invest Dilithium in, the exchange rate started to climb as Dilithium began to build up.
The devs have stated that they're not likely to create more Holdings, but something as massive as the Fleet System is what is needed to create the demand for Dilithium. A potentially easy "fix" might be to open up individuals to starting their own lone Fleets. New Fleet Holdings might not be possible, but an influx of brand new Fleets into the game could sink a lot of Dilithium. I think I may ask about this possibility.
Creating a convenience that we've not had before has merit as well. Certainly better than removing a convenience and then reintroducing it with a charge.
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