Can't and won't happen. A large portion of the playerbase wants quick and easy, partly due to having 17 billion characters and partly because they want to gawk at their parses. Anything over 10-15 minutes is no bueno.
The cost/benefit to Cryptic -especially with the current multi-hat dev team setup- probably won't lean in favour of anything extravagant, I sure as heck wouldn't risk it given the temperature of this particular room.
MAYBE an event raid.
Speaking on a personal level, I'd like something meaty to take my ships into.
And largely because they have fled to STO to escape things like WoW Raiding and all of it's inherent drama. I think it would be nice if they put some of the older stuff back in. It would be nice to play through the Borg TFO's in it's original long form Story mode. But then you stumble into the loot trap. The only way to get players to reliably show up to do the content is to dangle must have loot in front of them. Which leads to the viscious cycle of players doing stuff they don't necessarily like in order to progress, and subjecting themselves to ever more drama, abuse and anti social behavior. STO sits in a weird niche MMO wise.
True enough. This game is actually quite relaxing due to limited drama......aside from zone chat anyway but that can be turned off.
However, you say loot is a carrot yet people insist on playing Romulan Minefield ad nauseam. I can't see the point of that TFO at all, especially seeing as I get the purple vendor trash usually anyway. If they want vendor trash there's patrols for that and XP.
Fleet marks? You get far more from the other queues.
I mean unless they scorched earth when they removed the old stuff, they could put it back in.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,494Community Moderator
IMO there really is no "must have" loot. STO is a casual MMO that with even the right basic gear you can get through the story just fine with a T5 ship. And yea we have event loot, but if you look at it... NONE of it is absolutely required to play. All nice to have, but not required. Hell... I'm not using the current event's console at all even though I unlocked it. And we still have at least 3 events a year where you can earn a free T6, and all through pretty mundane, easy methods. Especially Summer and Winter.
If you wanna min/max the shtako out of your ship then maybe there are must haves, like the DOMINO for a phaser build. But not everyone is in it for the uberDEEPS to see how quickly they can nuke a Tac Cube. Some people just wanna have fun and experience the story.
I mean unless they scorched earth when they removed the old stuff, they could put it back in.
Check out the list at the top of this recent article from r/STO. It seems like removing things from the game is similar to logging old growth forest. Chances are you won't see much of either again.
Jumping in an online game is never good, not everyone has the fast rock-solid connection needed to do that.
For instance, there is at least one mission that is literally impossible to get through in Secret World Legends without a near perfect connection because it has a section where you have to make quick precision jumps and that cannot be done on the decrepit cable TV based network I am on because of random lag spikes that are not bad enough to stop combat but are enough to throw off accurate jumping. The only way around that one is to team up with someone who has a stable enough connection to do the jumps because if you are teamed only one person in the team has to do it.
Jumping is one of those things that look like they would be a nice change of pace on paper but really do not work out in practice and a lot of people get annoyed by it instead. Making progress depend on something like that with even the minor instabilities of the Internet is just bad design, so STO not making more of it (there is still that horrible Kobali mission with it and that is more than enough jumping nonsense for an online game) is a smart move on their part.
No, there were a select few very vocal people who simply did not have the hand-eye coordination skills to click the space bar and W key at the same time. It had nothing to do with unstable connections or lag spikes. The jumping that was required is quite literally a piece of cake compared to other games on other platforms.
Whatever floats your boat. If it makes you feel better to think that the jumping problem is hand-eye coordination instead of unstable internet speeds and the intermittent control issues (like the game not always detecting button presses in a timely manner) that people have been talking about for a long time, that is up to you. It does not change the fact that those problems exist and take all the fun out of scenarios that depend on quick, squeaky clean connections and make them irritating (or worse) instead.
Your hand-eye coordination theory also fails to address the equally real disconnection during map transfers problem I mentioned in the comment you partially quoted (I get disconnected about three in five times for instance) that would make keeping a raid party together for the whole thing difficult since some would not be able to get back into the raid after disconnection with the haphazard way group content is handled currently.
Another factor is that the lack of a functional ingame voice system would make coordinating raids somewhat problematic, and the third-party ones are not a good solution for it because not everyone uses the same system, nor are they all in the same Discord/Teamspeak/whatever group. Those third-party voice applications are only good for pre-arranged fleet runs.
I’m not a level/mission designer by any means, but I believe that a great way to test this idea with the game’s populace could be to merge all the Borg TFOS into one mega operation (Infected, Cure, Khitomer, and Hive, both ground and space). They could rework some of the boss fights to be more difficult for this queue specifically, for example, take Infected and make it so instead of one single Tactical Cube warping in, it’s a Diamond flanked by a fleet of Tac cubes and spheres (ala Hive Onslaught) and then prompt the players to begin the ground queue, and do the same thing in terms of amping up the difficulty.
If you have been playing this game for as long as you claim you have, you would know that the Borg TFOs used to be combined together into a longer raid type encounter just as you are asking. It was the only way to get what is now the OMEGA rep gear. Players whined and complained about it being too long, too hard, about needing to Mario jump around the map, would not or could not find teams to carry them in the content etc. Basically, raids did exist and they were a resounding flop, so they were removed. Zero reason to bring them back at this point.
Ah good times good times. We had a fleet who regularly ran those STF's and had alot of fun back then unless the Queen was bugged wich was about 1 out 3 runs. Though playing with Pugs was pretty much impossible. It's like today's TFO's if I didn't have the gear and knowledge to do most TFO's by myself I wouldn't even bother. People sign up for Advanced and have no clue what they are doing or why which I have to assum is more then 90% of the Player base. I have seen thing in Infected normal for Event I get nightmares about...
But yeah we shouldn't have raids in here because most people are not willing to invest time to actually know what to do and farm the gear to do it.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
Whatever floats your boat. If it makes you feel better to think that the jumping problem is hand-eye coordination instead of unstable internet speeds and the intermittent control issues (like the game not always detecting button presses in a timely manner) that people have been talking about for a long time, that is up to you. It does not change the fact that those problems exist and take all the fun out of scenarios that depend on quick, squeaky clean connections and make them irritating (or worse) instead.
It does not make me feel any better or any worse. I am simply stating historical fact about the complaints most people had back when the Borg TF/raid was in its original form. I do not recall ever hearing or reading any comments about the jumping being problematic due to bad internet connections. The jumping required was not anything elaborate. They were simple hops where most people lacked the proper timing and situational awareness to execute them. It was no different than hopping up on a crate in a ground map.
I don't know what they said back then, what I was talking about was that in general jumping is not really practical nowadays with so much in the way of high-priority VOIP and video packets flying around the lower-capacity older and more decrepit parts of the internet last-mile areas causing momentary lag spikes.
Rubberbanding is not entirely gone, it is just down to the point where it is not noticeable most of the time, and that can really make anything that takes precision timing (such as jumping tricks) annoying instead of fun. If you are in an area where spikes like that never happen then I am happy for you, but I can tell you from experience that not everyone has that solid of a connection.
And specifically to STO, it is a simple fact that the controls in the game are not completely reliable, pressing a button, whether virtual or mechanical, does not always perform the action right away, and sometimes not at all (though it often causes the cooldown timer to start on things that have cooldowns despite not triggering the action).
Your hand-eye coordination theory also fails to address the equally real disconnection during map transfers problem I mentioned in the comment you partially quoted (I get disconnected about three in five times for instance) that would make keeping a raid party together for the whole thing difficult since some would not be able to get back into the raid after disconnection with the haphazard way group content is handled currently.
If you have already transferred to a map, you could perform the required jumping unless your hand-eye coordination and play skills were insufficient to do it properly. Unless you want to try and say that you will connect to a map, then suddenly only when you need to jump you will get disconnected again.
I never said the map transfer failures had anything to do with jumping on ground maps, I am not sure how you confused that with the jumping issue. The map transfer failures are a problem in keeping a raid group intact when switching maps (the devs have mentioned that the transfer failures are a major reason why no current TFOs use more than one map in fact).
A raid tends to fall apart if people keep dropping out and cannot get back in. And with the hit-or-miss way grouping works in STO there is a very high chance that a person who gets dumped during map transfer also gets dumped from the group and is unable to rejoin the group while they are in the raid. Raids probably would not be practical unless they reworked how grouping (and hopefully map transfers as well) works in the game.
Another factor is that the lack of a functional ingame voice system would make coordinating raids somewhat problematic, and the third-party ones are not a good solution for it because not everyone uses the same system, nor are they all in the same Discord/Teamspeak/whatever group. Those third-party voice applications are only good for pre-arranged fleet runs.
The old Borg TF did not require voice communication. They simply were not that hard or had that difficult of scripted encounters that required it.
I never played the old Borg TF (I first signed up for STO in 2016 but left a few days later and didn't return until 2018 when I started playing it regularly), but since apparently in-game voice never worked properly (judging by comments from the oldtimers), it logically follows that it would not be an absolute requirement.
On the other hand, without voice a raid tends to be extremely chaotic unless it is done by a group that has worked together on it enough times to work out the kinks since everyone is essentially isolated (I have been in intricate dungeons and raids in other games and have seen firsthand the difference voice makes).
Not everyone needs to talk (though it helps), but a coordinator on voice calling out reminders and tactics helps a lot in other games. The current TFOs illustrate the problem on a small scale since they are very simple designs but in pugs people still wander around lost for longer than they would with a caller giving tips.
So, Val, now you're an expert on how clean everyone's internet connection is? You don't remember the debacle a couple years back with the nodes that interpreted MMO traffic as a DDoS attack and slowed things down?
IMO there really is no "must have" loot. STO is a casual MMO that with even the right basic gear you can get through the story just fine with a T5 ship.
And yet when I tell people this, and tell them I've done it, they say I'm lying.
Here's a list in rough chronological order of reasons given why raid like content wouldn't work in Star Trek Online -
it's like PvP
players can't learn even simple things so how can they learn this
....
Good summary (really, not being snarky)
And it's all true for many, many players.
Yes, there are people here who learn the TFOs, who follow directions, who would enjoy and do well in a STO raid.
But are there enough of them for it to be a good business decision to give up making multiple TFOs or a story episode to make a raid?
I'm not against raids, it's just content creation is a zero-sum game and we're dealing with a small sum to divide up already. I'm not convinced adding raids would bring in a wave of new players to add resources (money) either.
To me this goes on the "never going to happen" wish list along with new ship interiors, ship interiors with customizable crews, unified weapon visuals ....
I'd say is less "Don't have the ability to learn even the simple things" and more "don't have the desire to learn even the simple things".
As for connections there's this nasty thing MMOs can do if you connection is flaky and that's essentially "forget" inputs, there's been plenty of times during jump puzzles both in STO and in other MMOs where I've pressed my space bar as far down as it goes and my character still desided I must mean "march to your death and not jump" instead of "take a jump forward".
Here's a list in rough chronological order of reasons given why raid like content wouldn't work in Star Trek Online -
it's like PvP
players can't learn even simple things so how can they learn this
....
Good summary (really, not being snarky)
It can make for an entertaining read if taken lightly
And it's all true for many, many players.
It's just the summarized opinions of less than a dozen regular posters with only a single persistent assenting opinion. I wouldn't read too much into it.
Yes, there are people here who learn the TFOs, who follow directions, who would enjoy and do well in a STO raid.
But are there enough of them for it to be a good business decision to give up making multiple TFOs or a story episode to make a raid?
This plays very nicely into the "we are just a small studio" line that's been actively promoted the past while. It's a great way to shut down a request for much of anything. Just look at how you had to phrase the question (and I'm not saying you phrased it wrong).
There are ways I could rephrase the small studio line but I won't.
I'm not against raids, it's just content creation is a zero-sum game and we're dealing with a small sum to divide up already. I'm not convinced adding raids would bring in a wave of new players to add resources (money) either.
What I've been advocating over the course of 2 pages is some variety in the menu to bolster the diversity of the end game. I doubt much of anything is achievable without some investment into the game.
To me this goes on the "never going to happen" wish list along with new ship interiors, ship interiors with customizable crews, unified weapon visuals ....
This is close to what I was getting at when I said earlier that we all really want the same thing - more of the things we each like.
As for connections there's this nasty thing MMOs can do if you connection is flaky and that's essentially "forget" inputs, there's been plenty of times during jump puzzles both in STO and in other MMOs where I've pressed my space bar as far down as it goes and my character still desided I must mean "march to your death and not jump" instead of "take a jump forward".
This would affect everything, not just jumping.
It does. But firing a weapon isn't generally as time-sensitive as jumping from one platform to another before the current platform becomes inaccessible/lethal.
Who's having trouble with reading comprehension again?
(Oh, and you did say that people complaining about that delay were just poorly-coordinated. Go back and reread your posts.)
It does. But firing a weapon isn't generally as time-sensitive as jumping from one platform to another before the current platform becomes inaccessible/lethal.
Who's having trouble with reading comprehension again?
Clearly you are having issues since it is abundantly clear you are having difficulty following the conversation. If you want to TRIBBLE everyone and say that lag spikes are constant 100% of the time for everyone and it prevents people from jumping, go right ahead. It is totally incorrect, but you can make whatever erroneous claims you like.
Jonsills is right, ordinary combat moves and weapon firing are not as time-sensitive as platform jumping. I can confirm it from personal experience. And no, I am not on dialup or whatever you might think, I actually have a reasonably fast broadband connection except for those random lag spikes.
Also, my machine far exceeds the game minimum requirements, STO's requirements are quite low compared to some of the other games I play, and I play those just fine (except for the occasional precision timing thing that can get trashed by the spikes at times), so it is not a case of machine requirements either.
(Oh, and you did say that people complaining about that delay were just poorly-coordinated. Go back and reread your posts.)
Well no, this is not what I said, but please do keep misreading everything. I said I did not recall anyone making posts about not being able to jump due to internet issues on the old Borg TFs. Again, reading comprehension.
Maybe not specifically about the old Borg TFs, but you did make the claim in a wide sweeping statement:
No, there were a select few very vocal people who simply did not have the hand-eye coordination skills to click the space bar and W key at the same time. It had nothing to do with unstable connections or lag spikes. The jumping that was required is quite literally a piece of cake compared to other games on other platforms.
That certainly sounds like you are blaming the whole problem on bad eye-hand coordination whether you meant it to sound that way or not. Reading comprehension factors into proofreading as well.
As for the chaos, you might be surprised how many casuals are not interested in hunting down walkthroughs and prefer to learn the ropes directly (or simply don't want to burn their usually limited gaming time with finding and studying walkthroughs), even if it annoys the oldschool raid-centric gamers.
Also some of the RP gamers don't use walkthroughs partly because it is immersion breaking to do that in the middle of a long gaming session and partly because in real life there are few if any walkthroughs so they want their character to do the content without them.
In most games (and I doubt STO is an exception) the casuals far outnumber everyone else, and likewise there are quite a few RP players in an MMORPG, especially one based on a wildly popular TV series like Star Trek, and a working standardized voice system can do wonders for keeping the chaos down in groups that have either of those types of gamers in it on something as long and complex as a raid (even TFOs often have people wandering around wondering what they are supposed to do, or doing things that are unhelpful or outright detrimental to meeting the objectives when a few spoken words could point them in the right direction).
None of those factors are deal breakers on their own, but together they can turn a lot of people off of doing the raids which makes creating raids a chancy proposition.
It does. But firing a weapon isn't generally as time-sensitive as jumping from one platform to another before the current platform becomes inaccessible/lethal.
Who's having trouble with reading comprehension again?
Clearly you are having issues since it is abundantly clear you are having difficulty following the conversation. If you want to TRIBBLE everyone and say that lag spikes are constant 100% of the time for everyone and it prevents people from jumping, go right ahead. It is totally incorrect, but you can make whatever erroneous claims you like.
100%?? Only a Sith deals in absolutes. YOU aren't ever experiencing lag spike, lucky you. It must be nice to never turn a corner and suddenly see that little red script at the top of the screen informing you that there are server connection issues. However, as you can see if you want to pull your head out of wherever you have it stuck and read the *actual* complaints, it *is* something that happens to quite a few people, and no one has control over when or if it happens. Has nothing to do with hand-eye coordination, despite your insistence that this is the *only* cause of such issues.
If you want raids so damn bad that you're willing to run down anyone who points out the issues with them, by all means go play something that has raids. Enjoy yourself. Life is too short to play a game you don't like.
Here's a list in rough chronological order of reasons given why raid like content is needed in Star Trek Online -
an expression of surprise that raid like content hasn't grown in over a decade.
a confirmation that accomplishing things as a team has consistently provided the greatest sense of reward
the suggestion that variety can be a refreshing change
the suggestion that more challenging content can often teach enriching lessons useful in real life
a comparison of current queue design being similar to offering fast food as both have little substance
an expression of concern that queues designed for events actually make their way into the TFO menu (cross contamination)
an expression of concern that STO's end game is limited
the possibility that a little variety is long overdue
the suggestion that threads seen asking for raid like content are seen on a regular basis perhaps because there's players looking for variety and challenge
the suggestion that what's been coming down the pipe as of late hasn't exactly been inspiring for many
the suggestion that other players need some love at times and not just the filthy casuals
the suggestion that offering some variety could result in a larger game population
a statistic was offered stating 15-20% of MMO populations were "advanced"
a suggestion that advanced players were being neglected
something about not wanting to eat fast food but it's the only menu being expanded
a clarification designed to calm those thinking along the narrow lines of old fashioned raids - there's room for compromise
a statement of not trying to be disrespectful of those liking other content
you're joking, right?
a statement that it can be a tough job providing an end game
a suggestion that not much of anything is achievable without some investment into the game
a suggestion that it's possible everybody wants the same thing - more of what they like
Here's a list in rough chronological order of reasons given why raid like content is needed in Star Trek Online -
....
a suggestion that not much of anything is achievable without some investment into the game
a suggestion that it's possible everybody wants the same thing - more of what they like
Yep, I don't disagree with any of that either.
It would be nice if Gearbox takes a look at STO and decides to try investing resources to grow it instead of following (what feels like) the PWE path of skimming the profits while leaving Cryptic with the bare minimum of resources. I don't expect it to happen but I'll be happy if my pessimism is proven wrong.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,494Community Moderator
Here's a list in rough chronological order of reasons given why raid like content is needed in Star Trek Online -
....
a suggestion that not much of anything is achievable without some investment into the game
a suggestion that it's possible everybody wants the same thing - more of what they like
Yep, I don't disagree with any of that either.
It would be nice if Gearbox takes a look at STO and decides to try investing resources to grow it instead of following (what feels like) the PWE path of skimming the profits while leaving Cryptic with the bare minimum of resources. I don't expect it to happen but I'll be happy if my pessimism is proven wrong.
I have a suspicion STO will be the real world Dil Mule equivalent. Hopefully I'm wrong but who knows.
i'd just be happy for more people queing for the 20 person fleet starbase defense. Maybe add it to the universal endeavor queue
It is doubtful that they would add anything that requires membership in a fleet to the universal endeavor since fleet membership is not itself universal.
They just need to do it like WoW does: split a longer raid into sections but also allow a group to play a higher difficulty combined version with higher loot.
They just need to do it like WoW does: split a longer raid into sections but also allow a group to play a higher difficulty combined version with higher loot.
It's simple suggestions such as this that really really highlights the power of a little creative thinking versus being a negative Nelly towards every suggestion that doesn't fit within a fixed mindset
Hopefully the next thread on improvements to the tailor is as well received as this thread has been. After all, everybody wants more of what they like ^^
We had a long thread here last year from someone failing over and over and over to get through the jumping section of that dominion arc ground mission. I don't play 3D platformers myself and it took me a few tries on each character to get past it.
The mario jumping thing sux even with good connections. i won't complete delta recruit because I absolutely HATE Dust to dust. I seriously enjoy going to the dentist more than that episode. when they do something like that they need to just respawn you on the other side after the third or 4th death
We Want Vic Fontaine
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,494Community Moderator
The mario jumping thing sux even with good connections. i won't complete delta recruit because I absolutely HATE Dust to dust. I seriously enjoy going to the dentist more than that episode. when they do something like that they need to just respawn you on the other side after the third or 4th death
Honest question: You using Shooter Mode or RPG Mode to hit the nodes in that section?
I admit I don't really like that particular section myself, but I've discovered that Shooter Mode allows for faster reactions on hitting the nodes than RPG mode, and you can turn with the mouse while rushing over the things.
Considering one of my preferred sets in game comes from Dust to Dust, I've gotten pretty decent at figuring that section out, and its really one of the only places left where I'll use Shooter Mode in game.
no, I don't use shooter mode.. I doubt i will try it. I hate that episode THAT MUCH. and for those in the thread that disparage people's eye/hand coordination.. Come on down. i'll outshoot you at the range and whip your TRIBBLE on the tennis court
We Want Vic Fontaine
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,494Community Moderator
no, I don't use shooter mode.. I doubt i will try it. I hate that episode THAT MUCH. and for those in the thread that disparage people's eye/hand coordination.. Come on down. i'll outshoot you at the range and whip your TRIBBLE on the tennis court
I was honestly trying to offer some potential adivce that could help on that section. I still sometimes have trouble on that part even with shooter mode. I just personally find I have more time to react while in Shooter Mode, and can turn to move around hazards that much faster.
I never use shooter mode in STO because the visual spam makes even seeing the target iffy, let alone actually targeting it. If I do a Dust to Dust in the future to get one of my Delta's through the whole transponder list I will try it though.
Dust to Dust? I don't like it much myself but not because of the platforming, that is as responsive as ground will ever be. The length and constant jabbering is the real test in that mission, space zombie ethics are none of my concern. I'd yoink a protomatter torp from the Tzenkethi and have done with it.
Mind you I am on console now, I forget how it went on PC.
I usually stuff that gamma section at least once per run though.
Comments
True enough. This game is actually quite relaxing due to limited drama......aside from zone chat anyway but that can be turned off.
However, you say loot is a carrot yet people insist on playing Romulan Minefield ad nauseam. I can't see the point of that TFO at all, especially seeing as I get the purple vendor trash usually anyway. If they want vendor trash there's patrols for that and XP.
Fleet marks? You get far more from the other queues.
I mean unless they scorched earth when they removed the old stuff, they could put it back in.
If you wanna min/max the shtako out of your ship then maybe there are must haves, like the DOMINO for a phaser build. But not everyone is in it for the uberDEEPS to see how quickly they can nuke a Tac Cube. Some people just wanna have fun and experience the story.
Whatever floats your boat. If it makes you feel better to think that the jumping problem is hand-eye coordination instead of unstable internet speeds and the intermittent control issues (like the game not always detecting button presses in a timely manner) that people have been talking about for a long time, that is up to you. It does not change the fact that those problems exist and take all the fun out of scenarios that depend on quick, squeaky clean connections and make them irritating (or worse) instead.
Your hand-eye coordination theory also fails to address the equally real disconnection during map transfers problem I mentioned in the comment you partially quoted (I get disconnected about three in five times for instance) that would make keeping a raid party together for the whole thing difficult since some would not be able to get back into the raid after disconnection with the haphazard way group content is handled currently.
Another factor is that the lack of a functional ingame voice system would make coordinating raids somewhat problematic, and the third-party ones are not a good solution for it because not everyone uses the same system, nor are they all in the same Discord/Teamspeak/whatever group. Those third-party voice applications are only good for pre-arranged fleet runs.
it's like PvP
players can't learn even simple things so how can they learn this
most players are very casual and lazy and just want to play with space barbie dolls
too long
too hard
they did try something different once, a long time ago
players whined and complained about the first ones
players couldn't find teams to carry them
needing to jump
not a good business decision given the numbers
rant threads about them 10 years ago
players refused to do the old ones
you're joking right?
devs can't get an in-game calendar to work so raids are too complicated for them also
jumping isn't good without a near perfect connection
the game has map transfer issues
most players wouldn't last 5 minutes
players aren't ready
players can't follow basic directions
players have poor builds
players think build advice is given by elitist a$$ holes
players think that since they've been here since beta they know what they're doing when some don't
there would need to be safeguards
the game would need the holy trinity of Tank, DPS, Healer in place
the loot system would have to be restructured
STO is an MMO for babies
the game would have to have balance or something
the game is too messy mechanically
the game is too messy design wise
STO players are refugees from other games
drama, abuse, and anti-social behavior
uberDEEPS (?)
the game lacks a proper in-game voice system
the game suffers from input lag
Ah good times good times. We had a fleet who regularly ran those STF's and had alot of fun back then unless the Queen was bugged wich was about 1 out 3 runs. Though playing with Pugs was pretty much impossible. It's like today's TFO's if I didn't have the gear and knowledge to do most TFO's by myself I wouldn't even bother. People sign up for Advanced and have no clue what they are doing or why which I have to assum is more then 90% of the Player base. I have seen thing in Infected normal for Event I get nightmares about...
But yeah we shouldn't have raids in here because most people are not willing to invest time to actually know what to do and farm the gear to do it.
I don't know what they said back then, what I was talking about was that in general jumping is not really practical nowadays with so much in the way of high-priority VOIP and video packets flying around the lower-capacity older and more decrepit parts of the internet last-mile areas causing momentary lag spikes.
Rubberbanding is not entirely gone, it is just down to the point where it is not noticeable most of the time, and that can really make anything that takes precision timing (such as jumping tricks) annoying instead of fun. If you are in an area where spikes like that never happen then I am happy for you, but I can tell you from experience that not everyone has that solid of a connection.
And specifically to STO, it is a simple fact that the controls in the game are not completely reliable, pressing a button, whether virtual or mechanical, does not always perform the action right away, and sometimes not at all (though it often causes the cooldown timer to start on things that have cooldowns despite not triggering the action).
I never said the map transfer failures had anything to do with jumping on ground maps, I am not sure how you confused that with the jumping issue. The map transfer failures are a problem in keeping a raid group intact when switching maps (the devs have mentioned that the transfer failures are a major reason why no current TFOs use more than one map in fact).
A raid tends to fall apart if people keep dropping out and cannot get back in. And with the hit-or-miss way grouping works in STO there is a very high chance that a person who gets dumped during map transfer also gets dumped from the group and is unable to rejoin the group while they are in the raid. Raids probably would not be practical unless they reworked how grouping (and hopefully map transfers as well) works in the game.
I never played the old Borg TF (I first signed up for STO in 2016 but left a few days later and didn't return until 2018 when I started playing it regularly), but since apparently in-game voice never worked properly (judging by comments from the oldtimers), it logically follows that it would not be an absolute requirement.
On the other hand, without voice a raid tends to be extremely chaotic unless it is done by a group that has worked together on it enough times to work out the kinks since everyone is essentially isolated (I have been in intricate dungeons and raids in other games and have seen firsthand the difference voice makes).
Not everyone needs to talk (though it helps), but a coordinator on voice calling out reminders and tactics helps a lot in other games. The current TFOs illustrate the problem on a small scale since they are very simple designs but in pugs people still wander around lost for longer than they would with a caller giving tips.
And yet when I tell people this, and tell them I've done it, they say I'm lying.
Good summary (really, not being snarky)
And it's all true for many, many players.
Yes, there are people here who learn the TFOs, who follow directions, who would enjoy and do well in a STO raid.
But are there enough of them for it to be a good business decision to give up making multiple TFOs or a story episode to make a raid?
I'm not against raids, it's just content creation is a zero-sum game and we're dealing with a small sum to divide up already. I'm not convinced adding raids would bring in a wave of new players to add resources (money) either.
To me this goes on the "never going to happen" wish list along with new ship interiors, ship interiors with customizable crews, unified weapon visuals
As for connections there's this nasty thing MMOs can do if you connection is flaky and that's essentially "forget" inputs, there's been plenty of times during jump puzzles both in STO and in other MMOs where I've pressed my space bar as far down as it goes and my character still desided I must mean "march to your death and not jump" instead of "take a jump forward".
It can make for an entertaining read if taken lightly
It's just the summarized opinions of less than a dozen regular posters with only a single persistent assenting opinion. I wouldn't read too much into it.
This plays very nicely into the "we are just a small studio" line that's been actively promoted the past while. It's a great way to shut down a request for much of anything. Just look at how you had to phrase the question (and I'm not saying you phrased it wrong).
There are ways I could rephrase the small studio line but I won't.
What I've been advocating over the course of 2 pages is some variety in the menu to bolster the diversity of the end game. I doubt much of anything is achievable without some investment into the game.
This is close to what I was getting at when I said earlier that we all really want the same thing - more of the things we each like.
Who's having trouble with reading comprehension again?
(Oh, and you did say that people complaining about that delay were just poorly-coordinated. Go back and reread your posts.)
Jonsills is right, ordinary combat moves and weapon firing are not as time-sensitive as platform jumping. I can confirm it from personal experience. And no, I am not on dialup or whatever you might think, I actually have a reasonably fast broadband connection except for those random lag spikes.
Also, my machine far exceeds the game minimum requirements, STO's requirements are quite low compared to some of the other games I play, and I play those just fine (except for the occasional precision timing thing that can get trashed by the spikes at times), so it is not a case of machine requirements either.
Maybe not specifically about the old Borg TFs, but you did make the claim in a wide sweeping statement:
That certainly sounds like you are blaming the whole problem on bad eye-hand coordination whether you meant it to sound that way or not. Reading comprehension factors into proofreading as well.
As for the chaos, you might be surprised how many casuals are not interested in hunting down walkthroughs and prefer to learn the ropes directly (or simply don't want to burn their usually limited gaming time with finding and studying walkthroughs), even if it annoys the oldschool raid-centric gamers.
Also some of the RP gamers don't use walkthroughs partly because it is immersion breaking to do that in the middle of a long gaming session and partly because in real life there are few if any walkthroughs so they want their character to do the content without them.
In most games (and I doubt STO is an exception) the casuals far outnumber everyone else, and likewise there are quite a few RP players in an MMORPG, especially one based on a wildly popular TV series like Star Trek, and a working standardized voice system can do wonders for keeping the chaos down in groups that have either of those types of gamers in it on something as long and complex as a raid (even TFOs often have people wandering around wondering what they are supposed to do, or doing things that are unhelpful or outright detrimental to meeting the objectives when a few spoken words could point them in the right direction).
None of those factors are deal breakers on their own, but together they can turn a lot of people off of doing the raids which makes creating raids a chancy proposition.
If you want raids so damn bad that you're willing to run down anyone who points out the issues with them, by all means go play something that has raids. Enjoy yourself. Life is too short to play a game you don't like.
an expression of surprise that raid like content hasn't grown in over a decade.
a confirmation that accomplishing things as a team has consistently provided the greatest sense of reward
the suggestion that variety can be a refreshing change
the suggestion that more challenging content can often teach enriching lessons useful in real life
a comparison of current queue design being similar to offering fast food as both have little substance
an expression of concern that queues designed for events actually make their way into the TFO menu (cross contamination)
an expression of concern that STO's end game is limited
the possibility that a little variety is long overdue
the suggestion that threads seen asking for raid like content are seen on a regular basis perhaps because there's players looking for variety and challenge
the suggestion that what's been coming down the pipe as of late hasn't exactly been inspiring for many
the suggestion that other players need some love at times and not just the filthy casuals
the suggestion that offering some variety could result in a larger game population
a statistic was offered stating 15-20% of MMO populations were "advanced"
a suggestion that advanced players were being neglected
something about not wanting to eat fast food but it's the only menu being expanded
a clarification designed to calm those thinking along the narrow lines of old fashioned raids - there's room for compromise
a statement of not trying to be disrespectful of those liking other content
you're joking, right?
a statement that it can be a tough job providing an end game
a suggestion that not much of anything is achievable without some investment into the game
a suggestion that it's possible everybody wants the same thing - more of what they like
Yep, I don't disagree with any of that either.
It would be nice if Gearbox takes a look at STO and decides to try investing resources to grow it instead of following (what feels like) the PWE path of skimming the profits while leaving Cryptic with the bare minimum of resources. I don't expect it to happen but I'll be happy if my pessimism is proven wrong.
I have a suspicion STO will be the real world Dil Mule equivalent. Hopefully I'm wrong but who knows.
It is doubtful that they would add anything that requires membership in a fleet to the universal endeavor since fleet membership is not itself universal.
It's been a while but pretty sure there's a PvP endeavor and not everybody does PvP so why not do something for Fleets once in a while also ?
It's simple suggestions such as this that really really highlights the power of a little creative thinking versus being a negative Nelly towards every suggestion that doesn't fit within a fixed mindset
Hopefully the next thread on improvements to the tailor is as well received as this thread has been. After all, everybody wants more of what they like ^^
The mario jumping thing sux even with good connections. i won't complete delta recruit because I absolutely HATE Dust to dust. I seriously enjoy going to the dentist more than that episode. when they do something like that they need to just respawn you on the other side after the third or 4th death
Honest question: You using Shooter Mode or RPG Mode to hit the nodes in that section?
I admit I don't really like that particular section myself, but I've discovered that Shooter Mode allows for faster reactions on hitting the nodes than RPG mode, and you can turn with the mouse while rushing over the things.
Considering one of my preferred sets in game comes from Dust to Dust, I've gotten pretty decent at figuring that section out, and its really one of the only places left where I'll use Shooter Mode in game.
I was honestly trying to offer some potential adivce that could help on that section. I still sometimes have trouble on that part even with shooter mode. I just personally find I have more time to react while in Shooter Mode, and can turn to move around hazards that much faster.
Mind you I am on console now, I forget how it went on PC.
I usually stuff that gamma section at least once per run though.