I'm continuing to really enjoy this show. I have to admit I'm amazed that out of 3 new Trek shows it is the cartoon one I'm enjoying the most, but I'm hoping Strange New Worlds will change that
I'm continuing to really enjoy this show. I have to admit I'm amazed that out of 3 new Trek shows it is the cartoon one I'm enjoying the most, but I'm hoping Strange New Worlds will change that
If Kurtzman can keep his poisoned paws off of SNW and let people who actually like Star Trek (especially TOS considering the era it is set in) write it without undue interference it might actually turn out to be an excellent show that might be able to smooth the path between DSC and TOS. They would have to advance technology at a very rapid rate for DSC tech to catch up to TOS tech levels but if the writers are very clever they could pull it off believably.
I'm continuing to really enjoy this show. I have to admit I'm amazed that out of 3 new Trek shows it is the cartoon one I'm enjoying the most, but I'm hoping Strange New Worlds will change that
If Kurtzman can keep his poisoned paws off of SNW and let people who actually like Star Trek (especially TOS considering the era it is set in) write it without undue interference it might actually turn out to be an excellent show that might be able to smooth the path between DSC and TOS. They would have to advance technology at a very rapid rate for DSC tech to catch up to TOS tech levels but if the writers are very clever they could pull it off believably.
I know what you mean, but remember this: the Pike that everyone loved so much (that they begged for him to get his own show) was part of Discovery S2 and came from Kurtzman. So despite my issues with Discovery in general, if I can just get a whole show focused on that Pike character I'll be happy
As far as the appearance of the tech, I'm afraid it is what it is at this point. For better or worse, we have already seen what the Strange New Worlds Enterprise and uniforms and associated tech are going to look like, and I wouldn't expect any massive changes towards TOS visuals.
Finally caught up on all episodes. And, since no one else has said it so far in this thread:
I want the USS Cerritos(T6) ingame!
And I'd also like to suggest the USS Vancouver as the Fleet T6 version. Make 'em both Miracle Worker ships.
For a Starship Mastery Trait, I am suggesting the Random Malfunction Event. A 5% chance something goes offline or the ship makes a random move in a random direction for 10 seconds. After the malfunction, the ship is immune to similar incidents for the next 2 minutes and the affected system performs at 110% for the next 20 seconds. Give the whole thing a 5 minute cooldown.
Maybe a Second Contact Special Event where the player has to provide back up for the Cerritos as well? Nothing complicated or overly done. Something like the missions already ingame where we help out Landry and USS Buran. The framework shouldn't be difficult to adapt should it?
For an Accolade, I'd suggest "Buffer Time". For an emote, I suggest the Chu Chu Dance.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
I'm continuing to really enjoy this show. I have to admit I'm amazed that out of 3 new Trek shows it is the cartoon one I'm enjoying the most, but I'm hoping Strange New Worlds will change that
If Kurtzman can keep his poisoned paws off of SNW and let people who actually like Star Trek (especially TOS considering the era it is set in) write it without undue interference it might actually turn out to be an excellent show that might be able to smooth the path between DSC and TOS. They would have to advance technology at a very rapid rate for DSC tech to catch up to TOS tech levels but if the writers are very clever they could pull it off believably.
I know what you mean, but remember this: the Pike that everyone loved so much (that they begged for him to get his own show) was part of Discovery S2 and came from Kurtzman. So despite my issues with Discovery in general, if I can just get a whole show focused on that Pike character I'll be happy
As far as the appearance of the tech, I'm afraid it is what it is at this point. For better or worse, we have already seen what the Strange New Worlds Enterprise and uniforms and associated tech are going to look like, and I wouldn't expect any massive changes towards TOS visuals.
I don't want to derail the thread so I will keep this brief.
It is not so much the looks (though they are boringly typical for sci-fi movies nowadays), what I was referring to was that the level of technology in DSC is way too low for the 2250s unless there is some kind of very rapid advancement between DSC and 2266.
For instance, in TOS they used impulse drive a total of about a half dozen times across the span of three whole seasons, only when they specifically needed to go slow (usually for diplomatic reasons) or their warp drive was damaged. In fact, they never even used impulse in The Cage either, they just warped into and out of orbit they way they did in TOS which is a continuity problem for DSC and their constant impulse usage.
In "Where No Man Has Gone Before" Kirk refers to it as their "impulse emergency drive", and in "Elaan of Troyius" Scotty was flabbergasted when Kirk ordered impulse instead of warp for the insystem trip, later Elaan was touring engineering and was told they almost never used impulse though even that probably seems fast to her.
In DSC they apparently can barely see where they are going in warp so they unexpectedly end up in asteroid fields, in TOS it was standard doctrine to fight in warp (usually warp 4) at an average range of 40,000km with pinpoint accuracy. They hit NOMAD (a one meter tall robot) at just over 90,000km with a photon torpedo while getting buffeted around by NOMAD's fire, and the Klingon ship in "Elaan of Troyius" opened fire on the enterprise with disruptor cannons at 100,000km. In DSC they have a serious problem trying to hit enemy ships that are clearly visible with the naked eye, probably no more than a quarter to half mile distant and wallowing along at sublight speeds.
Also, they cannot detect ships in warp until they are right on top of them, in S1E2 the sensor operator didn't even have time to finish the warning before a huge Klingon fleet dropped out of warp. In TOS they would have seen something that size quite a ways out unless they were cloaked (which they weren't) instead of only half a second's warning.
In DSC they have big flat control panels with what amounts to simple monkey buttons, whereas in TOS the "jewel buttons" represented complex solid-state controls that acted like joystick tophats or miniature trackballs. Just watch Sulu's hands on the helm controls, he keeps one hand anchored on several of the jewels and rocks his hand to provide analog control of the ship's flight while he pushes or strokes other ones with his other hand.
Though it is harder to see, Uhura uses the pad of her finger sometimes to turn one of the jewel buttons like it is a volume or tuning control, she also sometimes runs her finger slowly across the top of them when she is listening, like it is a trackball instead of a pushbutton.
In TOS, they refer to holograms several times (like the "witches" in "Catspaw") and the dialog makes it plain that theirs look solid and real, not like the Star Wars style mess in DSC. They even show a photonic (Losira) and they take her realistic look for granted, they are only surprised that she is apparently physically solid enough to touch things.
Anyway, there are a lot of other things like that, but this is already getting too long.
For instance, in TOS they used impulse drive a total of about a half dozen times across the span of three whole seasons, only when they specifically needed to go slow (usually for diplomatic reasons) or their warp drive was damaged. In fact, they never even used impulse in The Cage either, they just warped into and out of orbit they way they did in TOS which is a continuity problem for DSC and their constant impulse usage.
In "Where No Man Has Gone Before" Kirk refers to it as their "impulse emergency drive", and in "Elaan of Troyius" Scotty was flabbergasted when Kirk ordered impulse instead of warp for the insystem trip, later Elaan was touring engineering and was told they almost never used impulse though even that probably seems fast to her.
This would be an argument if all the rest of Trek hadn't rectonned it when/where impulse/warp are used. Discovery is consistent with the warp/impulse usage in TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT. Which makes TOS the one inconsistent with canon. Much like it is for many things since all the other shows rectoned various things in TOS.
In TOS, they refer to holograms several times (like the "witches" in "Catspaw") and the dialog makes it plain that theirs look solid and real, not like the Star Wars style mess in DSC. They even show a photonic (Losira) and they take her realistic look for granted, they are only surprised that she is apparently physically solid enough to touch things.
Except we see in Discovery, specifically S1EP6 - Lethe, that the Discovery is perfectly capable of generating completely solid holgoraphic characters and environments, as seen in the Klingon battle simulation both Tyler and Lorca participate in early on in the episode.
They did not "retcon" the warp drive, they gave (barely) reasonable inworld explanations for the change of procedure in using it. They knew full well that if they tried a ham-handed retcon (like they do nowadays) the Trekies of the time would crucify them and their golden goose end up a dead albatross around their necks.
First step, since they wanted to do relatively static close range combat so both ships could be on the screen at once they came up with the idea that improvements in shield technology meant they had to get more power to the weapons to compensate, so instead of connecting them to the impulse stacks like they did in TOS (and later in ENT), they connected them to the warp drives, which meant they could either go fast or shoot hard but not both.
That was sufficient to head off too much ire at the movies since they could just avoid orbital stuff for the most part, but they needed something more for a series so they came up with the "warp wear" idea. Not only did they have a warp speed limit of five imposed for a while (which caught most of the flak from the fans), all ships were ordered to use warp only when absolutely necessary, especially in higher traffic areas like inside star systems. There was even technobabble about the vast increases in impulse efficiency since the "old days" which indirectly implies that the efficiencies of warp travel were not as critical as they once were, so if they had the time impulse was good enough.
The DSC holodeck thing is one of the annoying discontinuities with the rest of the Treks, though to be fair they could be using one of the hologram-and-tractor/pressor beam units that they had in TAS and even had one of on the Enterprise-D when Tasha Yar demonstrated it to a visitor in the first season (though the rest of the time they apparently used the holomatter ones in TNG instead). It is definite though that the first full photonic they ran across was the Kalandan one (Losira).
The ENT episode where the aliens had a holodeck was not well received by the viewers either, for the same reason, though since those aliens are never seen again after that one episode and probably don't join the Federation the damage is somewhat self-limiting.
They did by all literal definition. A retcon is simply a change to established canon. And TNG and later all use the same change from TOS canon, meaning, it was retconed. There is no room for debate or discussion on this.
Just like in TOS they, several times, went to warp 13+, and later shows establishing that Warp 10 was the max, with no attempts to justify said change in canon, and only non-canon sources attempting any sort of explanation by claiming the warp scale was changed. Its just a retcon, plain and simple.
No, properly a "retcon" is filling in blank or gray areas, sometimes making minor tweaks to the backstory when necessary to make sense with the new information, not wholesale dumping of major points. Change on that scale is more of a reboot than a retcon.
And they they NEVER went back and changed the TOS era warp drive orbit-to-orbit procedures or the fact that they fought in warp, in fact ENT even reinforced the fighting at warp thing near the end of that series by Reed figuring out how to balance the phases of the warp drive, the shields, and the phase cannons in order to do it. And in that same episode they were being chased by several alien ships with more or less the same capabilities as the NX for most of the episode at warp five with it plinking at them with energy weapons (they were just out of effective range but the alien was slowly creeping up on them so if Reed couldn't figure out how to fight at warp by the time the enemy got into effective range they were done for).
What Starfleet did was to stop fighting in warp in the 2270s because it became more advantageous to do it at impulse and use the full output of the warp reactor for weapons and shields, in other words they did it as an in-universe evolution of doctrine leaving the TOS stuff intact, Paramount did not retcon it.
I guess you never heard that the warp scales changed between the TOS era and TNG. Yes, NOMAD pushed the ship up to warp 15 on the old scale, that comes out to about warp 9.7 on the new scale used in TNG. And 9.7 is less than 10. That is extremely fast by TOS standards (the TOS Enterprise's normal top speed (warp 8 old scale) is about warp 6.5 on the new scale) but Voyager went faster than that on many occasions.
The TNG scale makes a lot more logical sense, though. TOS scale (if there ever was such a thing, canonically no change happened, it's a retcon) is just random. They literally just said a number and higher sounds faster. With TNG warp we have a pseudo-scientific consistent scale which is better world building
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Finally caught up on all episodes. And, since no one else has said it so far in this thread:
I want the USS Cerritos(T6) ingame!
And I'd also like to suggest the USS Vancouver as the Fleet T6 version. Make 'em both Miracle Worker ships.
For a Starship Mastery Trait, I am suggesting the Random Malfunction Event. A 5% chance something goes offline or the ship makes a random move in a random direction for 10 seconds. After the malfunction, the ship is immune to similar incidents for the next 2 minutes and the affected system performs at 110% for the next 20 seconds. Give the whole thing a 5 minute cooldown.
Maybe a Second Contact Special Event where the player has to provide back up for the Cerritos as well? Nothing complicated or overly done. Something like the missions already ingame where we help out Landry and USS Buran. The framework shouldn't be difficult to adapt should it?
For an Accolade, I'd suggest "Buffer Time". For an emote, I suggest the Chu Chu Dance.
I would also like to see a T6 California Class put in the game. I could see it being from a Lower Decks lockbox, with its own phasers among other things from the show. Maybe you would pick what ship you want from the box, a California or Parliament class.
So, this episode was kinda an example of how safe transporter tech is. Some engineer is fiddling around with it, and a mistake happens - and no one died, just being inconvenienced by being slightly out of phase.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Finally caught up on all episodes. And, since no one else has said it so far in this thread:
I want the USS Cerritos(T6) ingame!
And I'd also like to suggest the USS Vancouver as the Fleet T6 version. Make 'em both Miracle Worker ships.
For a Starship Mastery Trait, I am suggesting the Random Malfunction Event. A 5% chance something goes offline or the ship makes a random move in a random direction for 10 seconds. After the malfunction, the ship is immune to similar incidents for the next 2 minutes and the affected system performs at 110% for the next 20 seconds. Give the whole thing a 5 minute cooldown.
Maybe a Second Contact Special Event where the player has to provide back up for the Cerritos as well? Nothing complicated or overly done. Something like the missions already ingame where we help out Landry and USS Buran. The framework shouldn't be difficult to adapt should it?
For an Accolade, I'd suggest "Buffer Time". For an emote, I suggest the Chu Chu Dance.
I would also like to see a T6 California Class put in the game. I could see it being from a Lower Decks lockbox, with its own phasers among other things from the show. Maybe you would pick what ship you want from the box, a California or Parliament class.
So, this episode was kinda an example of how safe transporter tech is. Some engineer is fiddling around with it, and a mistake happens - and no one died, just being inconvenienced by being slightly out of phase.
that's assuming of course that you don't buy into the theory that transporters destroy the original and create an exact duplicate at the destination - in which case everyone who uses a transporter even once dies​​
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
So, this episode was kinda an example of how safe transporter tech is. Some engineer is fiddling around with it, and a mistake happens - and no one died, just being inconvenienced by being slightly out of phase.
It's only safe for main characters with plot armor. Anyone else would be dust
Should it be? Of course; it's a completely normal/average ship. Will be be? Of course...not.
There was 1 simple reason the Inquiry went in a box: it was on a new show. Other than that, it was a normal faction ship, not supposed to be rare, and from close to STO's own time period. If it had been an original Cryptic design it would have been C-store, but because it was in a show they put it in a box. Sadly, all of those same points apply to the California class.
No, properly a "retcon" is filling in blank or gray areas, sometimes making minor tweaks to the backstory when necessary to make sense with the new information, not wholesale dumping of major points. Change on that scale is more of a reboot than a retcon.
Filling in gaps or grey areas has nothing to do with retcons, at all. A retcon, by its basic definition, is an outright CHANGE in established continuity. And can range from the small to the large. A reboot is completely starting a series over from scratch, which is not the same with TOS -> later shows, as later shows still consider TOS to have happened, they just change certain elements of it.
At this point I'm convinced you don't really understand how narratives work. You have already shown you don't understand what the terms headcanon, retcons, or reboot mean, all of which are fundamental aspects of talking about narratives.
I guess you never heard that the warp scales changed between the TOS era and TNG.
This is headcanon. No canonal material has ever stated any sort of warp scale change. The idea of a warp scale change comes from various tech manuals to try to explain away the differences between TOS and TNG warp scales, but all the tech manuals, novels, comic books, and videos games are non-canon by CBS's own word. The only canonal material is the TV shows and movies themselves, and the TV shows never mention a warp scale change. As it stands, there is no canonal explanation for the difference between TOS warp speeds, and later show's speeds. As such, the differences are simply a retcon.
The term "retcon" has changed quite a bit over the years, often sloshing from one extreme to the other, and current abuse takes it to far greater lengths than it was meant to have. The link you gave should have told you that (though it was a bit vague in some ways).
It does give the classic example though when it mentions the Sherlock Holmes retcon. The important takeaway is that while it negated Holme's death (which could be considered a major change) it did not do it by trampling the original story, it built upon it by adding material into that original continuity, shining light on an "undiscovered" gray area (that his death was faked).
Another good example of a retcon is lightsaber blade colors, in the original movie there were only red and blue that corresponded to the old western movie convention of black hats and white hats and all blades were supposedly one or the other.
In fact the first commissioned Star Wars novel that was not just one of the movies in literary form used Lucas's red/blue convention and mentioned that blade color was dependent upon the light/dark alignment of the wielder (and the writer claimed that came from information from Lucas, not his own invention). When the blue blades blended into the sky too much in RotJ they introduced green blades, and later a number of other colors and said that the color depended on the crystals used in constructing the saber.
Since you seem to like Merriam-Webster, here is the relevant section of their definition of a more appropriate word, reboot:
2 a transitive : to start (something) anew : to refresh (something) by making a new start or creating a new version
It's probably not an overstatement to say Sandberg is embarking on the most ambitious mission to reboot feminism and reframe discussions of gender since the launch of Ms. magazine in 1971.
— Belinda Luscombe
reboot an old TV series
And yes, some of the more extreme interpretations of the word "retcon" do overlap with the term "reboot", like most other things it is not nice, neatly pigeonholed definition scribed in stone. In literary circles though it is usually a measure of the intention and the effect on the already existing story.
By that definition a retcon leaves the existing narrative tapestry almost entirely intact and only changes certain threads, mostly to smooth rough patches or smoothly splice in new ones that may add nuances but keep the original look and feel intact. A retcon is aware of, works within, and builds upon that tapestry.
A reboot goes further and usually makes massive changes to the look and feel of the narrative tapestry, very often eliminating it entirely to start over from scratch. Batman Begins is a good example of a prequel style reboot that illustrates the fact that the term does not require repeating the same history or look and feel as the original.
And according to interviews, some of which are even in the official behind the scenes features DSC is not a prequel of TOS, a number of the creative team say they bypassed TOS in favor if their own reimagined tapestry, which were partially based on visuals from The Undiscovered Country, and squarely puts it in the same category as Batman Begins. Beside the massively different look and feel of the show itself, the fact that they intended to make a new Star Trek independent from TOS is shown by things like the signs in the design rooms that screamed "NO ROUND ENGINES!!!" in big block letters despite the fact that such things are era appropriate in the context of the already existing tapestry.
And no, the differences in the two warp speed formulas is not "headcanon", or at least not mine anyway if you insist that anything not said in onscreen dialog is "headcanon", so your gatekeeping attempt falls flat. The original, very simple warp factor formula was included in the writers bible, and episode writers were expected to take it into account (though few actually got it right since not many of them had any real idea of the huge scale of stellar distances).
For TNG they decided to go with a more complex formula which went from the speed of light at one end to infinity at the other, and the math is totally different for the two (and again, writers were expected to follow that new warp factor chart when writing stories, though it was followed by the writers with the same caveats as before).
i think the series is good so far. glad we have something other than what has been in the past. nice to see a different side of trek and have some people be able to poke fun at it.
i think CBS did a great job on this series, and all the other people from the top down.
Yeah, this is pretty good.
Favorite line from the latest episode:
Mariner: Wake me up if it turns into something I need to care about.
AHAAHAH Tendi is crazy Where did she get the DNA sequences she spliced together to make.... "The Dog"?
Give up, Somtaa - Phoenix redefines terms on the fly in order to bolster arguments that otherwise make no sense. "Canon" only exists insofar as it supports their points, and applying reason definitely isn't allowed.
The Osler has to be the best medical ship ever and it should be in STO ASAP as a C-Store ship. Also, we need The Dog.
Agreed. I feel like that ship could also be rife with rooms containing different spatial or temporal anomalies as a result of so many messed up passengers.
I'm really happy to be consistently enjoying this show. It's just such a refreshing change after disco/picard. Dark syfy has been done to death over the last decade or so, and it's nice to just be able to have fun with Trek again
The Osler has to be the best medical ship ever and it should be in STO ASAP as a C-Store ship. Also, we need The Dog.
Agreed. I feel like that ship could also be rife with rooms containing different spatial or temporal anomalies as a result of so many messed up passengers.
Personally, I think The Dog would be better for that and more likely. Being able to be a normal dog one moment and an eldritch nightmare or a rolling cube the next would be perfect for the next Anniversary event instead of a new Party Popper. The only way that Cryptic would add an interior to the Osler would be if it is featured in a mission like the Intrepid interior.
I'm really happy to be consistently enjoying this show. It's just such a refreshing change after disco/picard. Dark syfy has been done to death over the last decade or so, and it's nice to just be able to have fun with Trek again
Comments
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
If Kurtzman can keep his poisoned paws off of SNW and let people who actually like Star Trek (especially TOS considering the era it is set in) write it without undue interference it might actually turn out to be an excellent show that might be able to smooth the path between DSC and TOS. They would have to advance technology at a very rapid rate for DSC tech to catch up to TOS tech levels but if the writers are very clever they could pull it off believably.
Anyhow, stuff about the Cerritos.:
I know what you mean, but remember this: the Pike that everyone loved so much (that they begged for him to get his own show) was part of Discovery S2 and came from Kurtzman. So despite my issues with Discovery in general, if I can just get a whole show focused on that Pike character I'll be happy
As far as the appearance of the tech, I'm afraid it is what it is at this point. For better or worse, we have already seen what the Strange New Worlds Enterprise and uniforms and associated tech are going to look like, and I wouldn't expect any massive changes towards TOS visuals.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
And I'd also like to suggest the USS Vancouver as the Fleet T6 version. Make 'em both Miracle Worker ships.
For a Starship Mastery Trait, I am suggesting the Random Malfunction Event. A 5% chance something goes offline or the ship makes a random move in a random direction for 10 seconds. After the malfunction, the ship is immune to similar incidents for the next 2 minutes and the affected system performs at 110% for the next 20 seconds. Give the whole thing a 5 minute cooldown.
Maybe a Second Contact Special Event where the player has to provide back up for the Cerritos as well? Nothing complicated or overly done. Something like the missions already ingame where we help out Landry and USS Buran. The framework shouldn't be difficult to adapt should it?
For an Accolade, I'd suggest "Buffer Time". For an emote, I suggest the Chu Chu Dance.
I don't want to derail the thread so I will keep this brief.
It is not so much the looks (though they are boringly typical for sci-fi movies nowadays), what I was referring to was that the level of technology in DSC is way too low for the 2250s unless there is some kind of very rapid advancement between DSC and 2266.
For instance, in TOS they used impulse drive a total of about a half dozen times across the span of three whole seasons, only when they specifically needed to go slow (usually for diplomatic reasons) or their warp drive was damaged. In fact, they never even used impulse in The Cage either, they just warped into and out of orbit they way they did in TOS which is a continuity problem for DSC and their constant impulse usage.
In "Where No Man Has Gone Before" Kirk refers to it as their "impulse emergency drive", and in "Elaan of Troyius" Scotty was flabbergasted when Kirk ordered impulse instead of warp for the insystem trip, later Elaan was touring engineering and was told they almost never used impulse though even that probably seems fast to her.
In DSC they apparently can barely see where they are going in warp so they unexpectedly end up in asteroid fields, in TOS it was standard doctrine to fight in warp (usually warp 4) at an average range of 40,000km with pinpoint accuracy. They hit NOMAD (a one meter tall robot) at just over 90,000km with a photon torpedo while getting buffeted around by NOMAD's fire, and the Klingon ship in "Elaan of Troyius" opened fire on the enterprise with disruptor cannons at 100,000km. In DSC they have a serious problem trying to hit enemy ships that are clearly visible with the naked eye, probably no more than a quarter to half mile distant and wallowing along at sublight speeds.
Also, they cannot detect ships in warp until they are right on top of them, in S1E2 the sensor operator didn't even have time to finish the warning before a huge Klingon fleet dropped out of warp. In TOS they would have seen something that size quite a ways out unless they were cloaked (which they weren't) instead of only half a second's warning.
In DSC they have big flat control panels with what amounts to simple monkey buttons, whereas in TOS the "jewel buttons" represented complex solid-state controls that acted like joystick tophats or miniature trackballs. Just watch Sulu's hands on the helm controls, he keeps one hand anchored on several of the jewels and rocks his hand to provide analog control of the ship's flight while he pushes or strokes other ones with his other hand.
Though it is harder to see, Uhura uses the pad of her finger sometimes to turn one of the jewel buttons like it is a volume or tuning control, she also sometimes runs her finger slowly across the top of them when she is listening, like it is a trackball instead of a pushbutton.
In TOS, they refer to holograms several times (like the "witches" in "Catspaw") and the dialog makes it plain that theirs look solid and real, not like the Star Wars style mess in DSC. They even show a photonic (Losira) and they take her realistic look for granted, they are only surprised that she is apparently physically solid enough to touch things.
Anyway, there are a lot of other things like that, but this is already getting too long.
They did not "retcon" the warp drive, they gave (barely) reasonable inworld explanations for the change of procedure in using it. They knew full well that if they tried a ham-handed retcon (like they do nowadays) the Trekies of the time would crucify them and their golden goose end up a dead albatross around their necks.
First step, since they wanted to do relatively static close range combat so both ships could be on the screen at once they came up with the idea that improvements in shield technology meant they had to get more power to the weapons to compensate, so instead of connecting them to the impulse stacks like they did in TOS (and later in ENT), they connected them to the warp drives, which meant they could either go fast or shoot hard but not both.
That was sufficient to head off too much ire at the movies since they could just avoid orbital stuff for the most part, but they needed something more for a series so they came up with the "warp wear" idea. Not only did they have a warp speed limit of five imposed for a while (which caught most of the flak from the fans), all ships were ordered to use warp only when absolutely necessary, especially in higher traffic areas like inside star systems. There was even technobabble about the vast increases in impulse efficiency since the "old days" which indirectly implies that the efficiencies of warp travel were not as critical as they once were, so if they had the time impulse was good enough.
The DSC holodeck thing is one of the annoying discontinuities with the rest of the Treks, though to be fair they could be using one of the hologram-and-tractor/pressor beam units that they had in TAS and even had one of on the Enterprise-D when Tasha Yar demonstrated it to a visitor in the first season (though the rest of the time they apparently used the holomatter ones in TNG instead). It is definite though that the first full photonic they ran across was the Kalandan one (Losira).
The ENT episode where the aliens had a holodeck was not well received by the viewers either, for the same reason, though since those aliens are never seen again after that one episode and probably don't join the Federation the damage is somewhat self-limiting.
No, properly a "retcon" is filling in blank or gray areas, sometimes making minor tweaks to the backstory when necessary to make sense with the new information, not wholesale dumping of major points. Change on that scale is more of a reboot than a retcon.
And they they NEVER went back and changed the TOS era warp drive orbit-to-orbit procedures or the fact that they fought in warp, in fact ENT even reinforced the fighting at warp thing near the end of that series by Reed figuring out how to balance the phases of the warp drive, the shields, and the phase cannons in order to do it. And in that same episode they were being chased by several alien ships with more or less the same capabilities as the NX for most of the episode at warp five with it plinking at them with energy weapons (they were just out of effective range but the alien was slowly creeping up on them so if Reed couldn't figure out how to fight at warp by the time the enemy got into effective range they were done for).
What Starfleet did was to stop fighting in warp in the 2270s because it became more advantageous to do it at impulse and use the full output of the warp reactor for weapons and shields, in other words they did it as an in-universe evolution of doctrine leaving the TOS stuff intact, Paramount did not retcon it.
I guess you never heard that the warp scales changed between the TOS era and TNG. Yes, NOMAD pushed the ship up to warp 15 on the old scale, that comes out to about warp 9.7 on the new scale used in TNG. And 9.7 is less than 10. That is extremely fast by TOS standards (the TOS Enterprise's normal top speed (warp 8 old scale) is about warp 6.5 on the new scale) but Voyager went faster than that on many occasions.
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I would also like to see a T6 California Class put in the game. I could see it being from a Lower Decks lockbox, with its own phasers among other things from the show. Maybe you would pick what ship you want from the box, a California or Parliament class.
Make it a C-store ship.
that's assuming of course that you don't buy into the theory that transporters destroy the original and create an exact duplicate at the destination - in which case everyone who uses a transporter even once dies​​
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
It's only safe for main characters with plot armor. Anyone else would be dust
Should it be? Of course; it's a completely normal/average ship. Will be be? Of course...not.
There was 1 simple reason the Inquiry went in a box: it was on a new show. Other than that, it was a normal faction ship, not supposed to be rare, and from close to STO's own time period. If it had been an original Cryptic design it would have been C-store, but because it was in a show they put it in a box. Sadly, all of those same points apply to the California class.
Sucks, doesn't it?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The term "retcon" has changed quite a bit over the years, often sloshing from one extreme to the other, and current abuse takes it to far greater lengths than it was meant to have. The link you gave should have told you that (though it was a bit vague in some ways).
It does give the classic example though when it mentions the Sherlock Holmes retcon. The important takeaway is that while it negated Holme's death (which could be considered a major change) it did not do it by trampling the original story, it built upon it by adding material into that original continuity, shining light on an "undiscovered" gray area (that his death was faked).
Another good example of a retcon is lightsaber blade colors, in the original movie there were only red and blue that corresponded to the old western movie convention of black hats and white hats and all blades were supposedly one or the other.
In fact the first commissioned Star Wars novel that was not just one of the movies in literary form used Lucas's red/blue convention and mentioned that blade color was dependent upon the light/dark alignment of the wielder (and the writer claimed that came from information from Lucas, not his own invention). When the blue blades blended into the sky too much in RotJ they introduced green blades, and later a number of other colors and said that the color depended on the crystals used in constructing the saber.
Since you seem to like Merriam-Webster, here is the relevant section of their definition of a more appropriate word, reboot:
And yes, some of the more extreme interpretations of the word "retcon" do overlap with the term "reboot", like most other things it is not nice, neatly pigeonholed definition scribed in stone. In literary circles though it is usually a measure of the intention and the effect on the already existing story.
By that definition a retcon leaves the existing narrative tapestry almost entirely intact and only changes certain threads, mostly to smooth rough patches or smoothly splice in new ones that may add nuances but keep the original look and feel intact. A retcon is aware of, works within, and builds upon that tapestry.
A reboot goes further and usually makes massive changes to the look and feel of the narrative tapestry, very often eliminating it entirely to start over from scratch. Batman Begins is a good example of a prequel style reboot that illustrates the fact that the term does not require repeating the same history or look and feel as the original.
And according to interviews, some of which are even in the official behind the scenes features DSC is not a prequel of TOS, a number of the creative team say they bypassed TOS in favor if their own reimagined tapestry, which were partially based on visuals from The Undiscovered Country, and squarely puts it in the same category as Batman Begins. Beside the massively different look and feel of the show itself, the fact that they intended to make a new Star Trek independent from TOS is shown by things like the signs in the design rooms that screamed "NO ROUND ENGINES!!!" in big block letters despite the fact that such things are era appropriate in the context of the already existing tapestry.
And no, the differences in the two warp speed formulas is not "headcanon", or at least not mine anyway if you insist that anything not said in onscreen dialog is "headcanon", so your gatekeeping attempt falls flat. The original, very simple warp factor formula was included in the writers bible, and episode writers were expected to take it into account (though few actually got it right since not many of them had any real idea of the huge scale of stellar distances).
For TNG they decided to go with a more complex formula which went from the speed of light at one end to infinity at the other, and the math is totally different for the two (and again, writers were expected to follow that new warp factor chart when writing stories, though it was followed by the writers with the same caveats as before).
Favorite line from the latest episode:
Mariner: Wake me up if it turns into something I need to care about.
AHAAHAH Tendi is crazy
My character Tsin'xing
Agreed. I feel like that ship could also be rife with rooms containing different spatial or temporal anomalies as a result of so many messed up passengers.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Personally, I think The Dog would be better for that and more likely. Being able to be a normal dog one moment and an eldritch nightmare or a rolling cube the next would be perfect for the next Anniversary event instead of a new Party Popper. The only way that Cryptic would add an interior to the Osler would be if it is featured in a mission like the Intrepid interior.
Quite so.