And Metacritic has worse ratings for Lower Decks so it is not just Rotten Tomatoes. It could be the same people on both sites. All we can ever trust is our self whether something is good or bad and ignore everyone else's opinion.
All we can ever trust is our self whether something is good or bad and ignore everyone else's opinion.
You are right that "good" and "bad" are purely subjective terms on an individual basis. It's like literal 'taste'; a flavor that is "good" to one person may not be to another, and vice versa. And yet, neither of those people are "wrong" in liking or disliking a taste.
HOWEVER, there is a factor that is actually measurable: financial success. Although we obviously don't know their specific logic and calculations, I can 100% guarantee you that CBS has a viewership number a show needs to hit to justify it's cost. We don't know what the number is, but they do. A show either hits that number (and has either attracted or retained enough people based on that viewership) and gets renewed, or it doesn't.
Financial success is not the only factor though, it is a bit more complicated than that.
For instance ENT was cancelled when it had better viewer numbers than a lot of other shows that were not cut, and it was even gaining viewership at the time. It came down to Moonves simply did not like science fiction, especially Star Trek so he cancelled it with the reasoning that Star Trek was on continuously for too many years and that viewers would get sick of it soon.
DSC is in the opposite boat, whatever the numbers CBS cannot cancel it without risking their streaming service since all the hype and strife it generated inextricably tied the health of DSC and CBSAA together in the minds of the public, including the notoriously fickle and important investors (and no company likes to see their stock drop even a little). That situation will continue until they get another show or shows hat can carry CBSAA well enough to satisfy the investors that there will not be a slump if it goes.
And that kind of thing is not just CBS, all of the networks are more skeptical about their sci-fi shows than they are the other shows they carry, Fox being the poster child for cancelling sci-fi shows before they even have a change to prove themselves.
I seem to remember that the Hollywood writer's strike was part of the death of ENT.
No, it was cancelled shortly before the strike started, only the last three episodes were still in production by the time it started, and they were already written. The writer's strike did end up killing a few other shows though iirc.
I think the writer's strike thing started because the very last episode seemed so rushed and poorly written that people figured it had to have been written by a non-writer. But the actual reason was because the show was so suddenly cancelled and Moonves ordered them to write a "breaker" episode (one that intentionally destroys the show's chemistry to keep fan efforts to save it to a minimum).
The writers outsmarted him by having the breaker episode be a holodeck simulation which left the possibility that the "official record" may have been faked, but efforts to save the show still failed because what used to be Desilu was at that point a house studio and not an independent who could go to another network with Moonves sitting on the IP.
Just viewed episode 1 & even though I had low expectations I have to admit they were too low in hindsight & the episode was fun & entertaining imo. It being in cartoon form didn't even bother me one bit. I enjoyed it & already want to learn more about those four characters' history & paths into the future. It was also sort of refreshing since not so serious so a bit more relatable.
My feelings on the second episode are pretty much the same as the first: it was fun and I enjoyed it
I am getting a little worried that I may start to dislike Mariner if she doesn't change soon. Her personality is one thing, but when you combine that personality with also being "too good at everything"...it's just starting to grate on me a little. Not a lot, yet. But it's starting to. So I hope they can find some way to advance her character beyond "GO! GO! GO! I'm the best! Told'ya so!".
On the other hand, I'm really really enjoying Rutherford and Tendi.
My feelings on the second episode are pretty much the same as the first: it was fun and I enjoyed it
I am getting a little worried that I may start to dislike Mariner if she doesn't change soon. Her personality is one thing, but when you combine that personality with also being "too good at everything"...it's just starting to grate on me a little. Not a lot, yet. But it's starting to. So I hope they can find some way to advance her character beyond "GO! GO! GO! I'm the best! Told'ya so!".
On the other hand, I'm really really enjoying Rutherford and Tendi.
They've been showing bits and pieces about why she got demoted though, and that's good.
My feelings on the second episode are pretty much the same as the first: it was fun and I enjoyed it
I am getting a little worried that I may start to dislike Mariner if she doesn't change soon. Her personality is one thing, but when you combine that personality with also being "too good at everything"...it's just starting to grate on me a little. Not a lot, yet. But it's starting to. So I hope they can find some way to advance her character beyond "GO! GO! GO! I'm the best! Told'ya so!".
On the other hand, I'm really really enjoying Rutherford and Tendi.
They've been showing bits and pieces about why she got demoted though, and that's good.
Yeah, I just hope it doesn't turn out to be "she disobeyed orders...but she was right for doing so" thing. I just don't enjoy characters that are always right and always know the right thing to do all the time. Especially when they are constantly saying they're the best.
I hope the reason she got demoted was because she actually made a real mistake. And possibly even got other people hurt or killed. That would actually give her some depth and maybe even suggest her behavior/personality is really just covering up for guilt/regrets about mistakes she has made.
My feelings on the second episode are pretty much the same as the first: it was fun and I enjoyed it
I am getting a little worried that I may start to dislike Mariner if she doesn't change soon. Her personality is one thing, but when you combine that personality with also being "too good at everything"...it's just starting to grate on me a little. Not a lot, yet. But it's starting to. So I hope they can find some way to advance her character beyond "GO! GO! GO! I'm the best! Told'ya so!".
On the other hand, I'm really really enjoying Rutherford and Tendi.
They've been showing bits and pieces about why she got demoted though, and that's good.
Yeah, I just hope it doesn't turn out to be "she disobeyed orders...but she was right for doing so" thing. I just don't enjoy characters that are always right and always know the right thing to do all the time. Especially when they are constantly saying they're the best.
I hope the reason she got demoted was because she actually made a real mistake. And possibly even got other people hurt or killed. That would actually give her some depth and maybe even suggest her behavior/personality is really just covering up for guilt/regrets about mistakes she has made.
So far she almost cut off Boimler's leg while playing with a Bat'leth, so.... I'm guessing she deserved it. Also... how did she get locked up in a Klingon prison?
Well they put the first episode on Youtube so I gave it a watch. I didn't find it funny, and didn't laugh at all, but some of it was at least amusing.
I didn't particularly like the two girls, they were more annoying than not, especially Mariner who strikes me as Mary Sue, and it baffles me that somehow the captain didn't kick her off the ship for slicing open Boimler's leg, and wants him to get more dirt on her instead. She could be almost interesting with her history, but not how it was portrayed here. Overall she was just utterly unlikable.
Tendi just seems like the fake kind of person that agrees with everyone, yet at the same time it seemed like they weren't trying to portray her that way. I didn't find most of her excitement at all funny, but I was amused at the exchange in sickbay when she meets the nurse she needs to report to.
The guys were awkward but I didn't dislike them, they were somewhat endearing and interesting. The Vulcan implant suppressing the cyborg's emotions is an interesting quirk, although the weird obsession with the engineering problem that ended his date was sad, not funny. I was amused by the date and their continuing despite the situation so I think it was a little jarring to see it end as sadly as it did, and that's supposed to be the joke, but it didn't land.
Boimler seems most normal of the lot, for the type that is eager and wants to advance, and I think that youthful enthusiasm can set up jokes, but in this episode he was relegated to just being Mariner's pathetic sidekick, and the butt of unfunny jokes.
One of the more annoying things was the speed talking, especially from Mariner. What is the point of that? I'm wondering if I played it at .75x speed if it would work better. A lot of comedy requires a comedic pause and this show obviously lacked any of that.
I liked the title sequence. It seemed to be setting up a funny take on Trek, even if the preceeding scene was utterly unfunny. The plot and general tenor of the show could easily have worked as more serious Trek. And the art, though the character style was boring and looks like every other cartoon, the attention to the Star Trek details was really good.
The end scene really annoyed me, though, just name dropping a bunch of ST characters which made it plainly obvious they were trying to say, "hey we know Star Trek!" in a way that just looks patronizing. It could have worked if they made up some fictional names to offer a sign that they would like to add to the lore instead of just regurgitating it.
Overall I rate it C-. I'd watch it for free to kill some time.
My feelings on the second episode are pretty much the same as the first: it was fun and I enjoyed it
I am getting a little worried that I may start to dislike Mariner if she doesn't change soon. Her personality is one thing, but when you combine that personality with also being "too good at everything"...it's just starting to grate on me a little. Not a lot, yet. But it's starting to. So I hope they can find some way to advance her character beyond "GO! GO! GO! I'm the best! Told'ya so!".
On the other hand, I'm really really enjoying Rutherford and Tendi.
They've been showing bits and pieces about why she got demoted though, and that's good.
Yeah, I just hope it doesn't turn out to be "she disobeyed orders...but she was right for doing so" thing. I just don't enjoy characters that are always right and always know the right thing to do all the time. Especially when they are constantly saying they're the best.
I hope the reason she got demoted was because she actually made a real mistake. And possibly even got other people hurt or killed. That would actually give her some depth and maybe even suggest her behavior/personality is really just covering up for guilt/regrets about mistakes she has made.
So far she almost cut off Boimler's leg while playing with a Bat'leth, so.... I'm guessing she deserved it.
For whatever reason the show seemed to ignore that actually happening. Her mom, who was actively looking for bad behavior, apparently heard nothing about this. And she definitely would have heard about it from the doctor. So it seems that that scene was for comedy, then effectively "never happened" outside of that scene.
Also... how did she get locked up in a Klingon prison?
I didn't particularly like the two girls, they were more annoying than not, especially Mariner who strikes me as Mary Sue, and it baffles me that somehow the captain didn't kick her off the ship for slicing open Boimler's leg, and wants him to get more dirt on her instead.
I hadn't read your post when I made my previous reply, but we're obviously on the same page about her slicing Boimler's leg. As soon as that scene is over the show pretends it never happened, as her mom clearly doesn't know about it (and as I mentioned the doctor definitely would have informed her).
My feelings on the second episode are pretty much the same as the first: it was fun and I enjoyed it
I am getting a little worried that I may start to dislike Mariner if she doesn't change soon. Her personality is one thing, but when you combine that personality with also being "too good at everything"...it's just starting to grate on me a little. Not a lot, yet. But it's starting to. So I hope they can find some way to advance her character beyond "GO! GO! GO! I'm the best! Told'ya so!".
On the other hand, I'm really really enjoying Rutherford and Tendi.
They've been showing bits and pieces about why she got demoted though, and that's good.
Yeah, I just hope it doesn't turn out to be "she disobeyed orders...but she was right for doing so" thing. I just don't enjoy characters that are always right and always know the right thing to do all the time. Especially when they are constantly saying they're the best.
I hope the reason she got demoted was because she actually made a real mistake. And possibly even got other people hurt or killed. That would actually give her some depth and maybe even suggest her behavior/personality is really just covering up for guilt/regrets about mistakes she has made.
So far she almost cut off Boimler's leg while playing with a Bat'leth, so.... I'm guessing she deserved it.
For whatever reason the show seemed to ignore that actually happening. Her mom, who was actively looking for bad behavior, apparently heard nothing about this. And she definitely would have heard about it from the doctor. So it seems that that scene was for comedy, then effectively "never happened" outside of that scene.
Also... how did she get locked up in a Klingon prison?
Good question; hopefully we will find out.
She also thinks fast on her feet, that chop would have severed a major artery that runs down the inside of the thigh so even drunk she had to have gotten something out of the junk box to bind the wound until he got to sickbay or he would have likely died before he made it to the turbolift.
My feelings on the second episode are pretty much the same as the first: it was fun and I enjoyed it
I am getting a little worried that I may start to dislike Mariner if she doesn't change soon. Her personality is one thing, but when you combine that personality with also being "too good at everything"...it's just starting to grate on me a little. Not a lot, yet. But it's starting to. So I hope they can find some way to advance her character beyond "GO! GO! GO! I'm the best! Told'ya so!".
On the other hand, I'm really really enjoying Rutherford and Tendi.
They've been showing bits and pieces about why she got demoted though, and that's good.
Yeah, I just hope it doesn't turn out to be "she disobeyed orders...but she was right for doing so" thing. I just don't enjoy characters that are always right and always know the right thing to do all the time. Especially when they are constantly saying they're the best.
I hope the reason she got demoted was because she actually made a real mistake. And possibly even got other people hurt or killed. That would actually give her some depth and maybe even suggest her behavior/personality is really just covering up for guilt/regrets about mistakes she has made.
So far she almost cut off Boimler's leg while playing with a Bat'leth, so.... I'm guessing she deserved it.
For whatever reason the show seemed to ignore that actually happening. Her mom, who was actively looking for bad behavior, apparently heard nothing about this. And she definitely would have heard about it from the doctor. So it seems that that scene was for comedy, then effectively "never happened" outside of that scene.
Also... how did she get locked up in a Klingon prison?
Good question; hopefully we will find out.
She also thinks fast on her feet, that chop would have severed a major artery that runs down the inside of the thigh so even drunk she had to have gotten something out of the junk box to bind the wound until he got to sickbay or he would have likely died before he made it to the turbolift.
Why is the captain just looking for dirt on Mariner?
Because that's her daughter, and she promised Mariner's father (an admiral) that she'd give Mariner a chance. The only "out" he gave her was if Mariner wasn't "fitting in", and as we saw in the last scene of ep 1, "Second Contact", she's fitting in just fine.
Boimler's a kind of guy I'm really familiar with, both in and out of the military. He thinks he knows just what to do in all situations, and at least half the time he's wrong. In this ep he failed to learn basic Klingon courtesy, thinking he was supposed to show deference the way he would to a Starfleet superior (which to a Klingon says that either you're too weak to desire his respect, which means he's insulted because you were assigned to pilot him, or you don't think he's strong enough to handle a challenge from you, which is a whole different level of disrespect). He also assumed he knew how to speak an alien language, which almost got him thrashed by the alien equivalent of a rowdy teenager, and while his initial instincts regarding Ferengi were accurate enough, his reaction could well have sparked an interstellar war if the particular Ferengi hadn't been play-acting.
His voice actor summed the character up as "the kind of guy who'd ace the written portion of the driver's test, but once you get him behind the wheel it's a disaster."
The episode ticked so many boxes: The incorporeal mind control alien bit, the hilarious command simulations, the Risian district... The show is so aware of Trek quirks, but uses them in a really good manner. If the episodes would be longer I feel the feeling of them rushing it woukdn't be such an issue, the pacing is really a bit too fast. But I find it baffling how good LD is, especially if you 'grew up' with TNG.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
My feelings on the second episode are pretty much the same as the first: it was fun and I enjoyed it
I am getting a little worried that I may start to dislike Mariner if she doesn't change soon. Her personality is one thing, but when you combine that personality with also being "too good at everything"...it's just starting to grate on me a little. Not a lot, yet. But it's starting to. So I hope they can find some way to advance her character beyond "GO! GO! GO! I'm the best! Told'ya so!".
On the other hand, I'm really really enjoying Rutherford and Tendi.
They've been showing bits and pieces about why she got demoted though, and that's good.
Yeah, I just hope it doesn't turn out to be "she disobeyed orders...but she was right for doing so" thing. I just don't enjoy characters that are always right and always know the right thing to do all the time. Especially when they are constantly saying they're the best.
I hope the reason she got demoted was because she actually made a real mistake. And possibly even got other people hurt or killed. That would actually give her some depth and maybe even suggest her behavior/personality is really just covering up for guilt/regrets about mistakes she has made.
So far she almost cut off Boimler's leg while playing with a Bat'leth, so.... I'm guessing she deserved it.
For whatever reason the show seemed to ignore that actually happening. Her mom, who was actively looking for bad behavior, apparently heard nothing about this. And she definitely would have heard about it from the doctor. So it seems that that scene was for comedy, then effectively "never happened" outside of that scene.
Also... how did she get locked up in a Klingon prison?
Good question; hopefully we will find out.
She also thinks fast on her feet, that chop would have severed a major artery that runs down the inside of the thigh so even drunk she had to have gotten something out of the junk box to bind the wound until he got to sickbay or he would have likely died before he made it to the turbolift.
The issue isn't so much that he survived, its that the captain should have been informed about the incident, if not from the ensigns, unquestionably from the doctor. And that incident alone would have been enough to kick Mariner off the ship, and probably out of Starfleet. The trailer had a similar level of incident when she fired a phaser at Boimler behind a force field, which as Ep 1 establishes, she knows full well is against a bunch of regulations.
Why is the captain just looking for dirt on Mariner?
Because that's her daughter, and she promised Mariner's father (an admiral) that she'd give Mariner a chance. The only "out" he gave her was if Mariner wasn't "fitting in", and as we saw in the last scene of ep 1, "Second Contact", she's fitting in just fine.
Boimler's a kind of guy I'm really familiar with, both in and out of the military. He thinks he knows just what to do in all situations, and at least half the time he's wrong. In this ep he failed to learn basic Klingon courtesy, thinking he was supposed to show deference the way he would to a Starfleet superior (which to a Klingon says that either you're too weak to desire his respect, which means he's insulted because you were assigned to pilot him, or you don't think he's strong enough to handle a challenge from you, which is a whole different level of disrespect). He also assumed he knew how to speak an alien language, which almost got him thrashed by the alien equivalent of a rowdy teenager, and while his initial instincts regarding Ferengi were accurate enough, his reaction could well have sparked an interstellar war if the particular Ferengi hadn't been play-acting.
His voice actor summed the character up as "the kind of guy who'd ace the written portion of the driver's test, but once you get him behind the wheel it's a disaster."
Let's be honest: if we translate this to real live, both Boimler and Mariner would be dead. Boimler would be dead because of incompetence, for the reasons you described. Mariner would be dead because of arrogance, because a bullet on a battlefield doesn't care how cool you think you are. An army friend said it best: "hot shots" get shot.
Why is the captain just looking for dirt on Mariner?
Because that's her daughter, and she promised Mariner's father (an admiral) that she'd give Mariner a chance. The only "out" he gave her was if Mariner wasn't "fitting in", and as we saw in the last scene of ep 1, "Second Contact", she's fitting in just fine.
I think there's more than that. I think she was testing Boimler, and not just Mariner.
My feelings on the second episode are pretty much the same as the first: it was fun and I enjoyed it
I am getting a little worried that I may start to dislike Mariner if she doesn't change soon. Her personality is one thing, but when you combine that personality with also being "too good at everything"...it's just starting to grate on me a little. Not a lot, yet. But it's starting to. So I hope they can find some way to advance her character beyond "GO! GO! GO! I'm the best! Told'ya so!".
On the other hand, I'm really really enjoying Rutherford and Tendi.
They've been showing bits and pieces about why she got demoted though, and that's good.
Yeah, I just hope it doesn't turn out to be "she disobeyed orders...but she was right for doing so" thing. I just don't enjoy characters that are always right and always know the right thing to do all the time. Especially when they are constantly saying they're the best.
I hope the reason she got demoted was because she actually made a real mistake. And possibly even got other people hurt or killed. That would actually give her some depth and maybe even suggest her behavior/personality is really just covering up for guilt/regrets about mistakes she has made.
So far she almost cut off Boimler's leg while playing with a Bat'leth, so.... I'm guessing she deserved it.
For whatever reason the show seemed to ignore that actually happening. Her mom, who was actively looking for bad behavior, apparently heard nothing about this. And she definitely would have heard about it from the doctor. So it seems that that scene was for comedy, then effectively "never happened" outside of that scene.
Also... how did she get locked up in a Klingon prison?
Good question; hopefully we will find out.
She also thinks fast on her feet, that chop would have severed a major artery that runs down the inside of the thigh so even drunk she had to have gotten something out of the junk box to bind the wound until he got to sickbay or he would have likely died before he made it to the turbolift.
The issue isn't so much that he survived, its that the captain should have been informed about the incident, if not from the ensigns, unquestionably from the doctor. And that incident alone would have been enough to kick Mariner off the ship, and probably out of Starfleet. The trailer had a similar level of incident when she fired a phaser at Boimler behind a force field, which as Ep 1 establishes, she knows full well is against a bunch of regulations.
It's also a cartoon parody, so to speak. Mostly fun stuff, and not toooo much of the deep stuff.
And remember, this ship and crew is not the best of the best.
So far I enjoyed it. Looking forward to the next episode.
If there is a hint of Rick & Morty in there aside from the art style, I would expect that it will take some time for Boimler to gain some upper hand over Mariner, and Mariner will never stop being extraordinary good at whatever she does, but we will see her demons.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
My feelings on the second episode are pretty much the same as the first: it was fun and I enjoyed it
I am getting a little worried that I may start to dislike Mariner if she doesn't change soon. Her personality is one thing, but when you combine that personality with also being "too good at everything"...it's just starting to grate on me a little. Not a lot, yet. But it's starting to. So I hope they can find some way to advance her character beyond "GO! GO! GO! I'm the best! Told'ya so!".
On the other hand, I'm really really enjoying Rutherford and Tendi.
They've been showing bits and pieces about why she got demoted though, and that's good.
Yeah, I just hope it doesn't turn out to be "she disobeyed orders...but she was right for doing so" thing. I just don't enjoy characters that are always right and always know the right thing to do all the time. Especially when they are constantly saying they're the best.
I hope the reason she got demoted was because she actually made a real mistake. And possibly even got other people hurt or killed. That would actually give her some depth and maybe even suggest her behavior/personality is really just covering up for guilt/regrets about mistakes she has made.
So far she almost cut off Boimler's leg while playing with a Bat'leth, so.... I'm guessing she deserved it.
For whatever reason the show seemed to ignore that actually happening. Her mom, who was actively looking for bad behavior, apparently heard nothing about this. And she definitely would have heard about it from the doctor. So it seems that that scene was for comedy, then effectively "never happened" outside of that scene.
Also... how did she get locked up in a Klingon prison?
Good question; hopefully we will find out.
She also thinks fast on her feet, that chop would have severed a major artery that runs down the inside of the thigh so even drunk she had to have gotten something out of the junk box to bind the wound until he got to sickbay or he would have likely died before he made it to the turbolift.
The issue isn't so much that he survived, its that the captain should have been informed about the incident, if not from the ensigns, unquestionably from the doctor. And that incident alone would have been enough to kick Mariner off the ship, and probably out of Starfleet. The trailer had a similar level of incident when she fired a phaser at Boimler behind a force field, which as Ep 1 establishes, she knows full well is against a bunch of regulations.
It's also a cartoon parody, so to speak. Mostly fun stuff, and not toooo much of the deep stuff.
And remember, this ship and crew is not the best of the best.
I wouldn't call it a parody, but yes its trying to be a comedic, less serious take on trek. I definitely gave the show passes on a lot of stuff because of that, where it is more absurd or silly or whatever. I don't have a problem with it doing goofy things in general.
However, there's a line there for suspension of disbelief. There is only so much carelessness in your weapons handling, with near-fatal disregard for someone's life, that a Starfleet officer can do and still be believable, even in a comedy show. I mean she's actively trying to kill him in her drunkeness, its not like she's tossing things from the box over her back and it happens to slice his leg open in that sort of gag. That would have gotten a pass from me if that were how it happened.
And not only does it cross that line with the batleth, it ties it into a screwy knot when later in the very same episode, the captain wants dirt on Mariner and the opening scene is entirely forgotten. What was even the point of that scene? It literally has no purpose. It isn't funny, it has no relevance to the plot or rest of the episode when it actually should, and is instead entirely ignored.
I mean she's actively trying to kill him in her drunkeness,
I disagree. I don't think she was trying to kill him, or even hurt him. I think she was playing around. She shouldn't have been, but my point is that I didn't get the impression it was intentional.
That said, I'm also going to have to disagree with smokebailey's apparent view that just because it's a comedy it doesn't need to make sense. What we're talking about is not some 'technicality'; it's a completely legitimate point. The show completely ignores the bat'leth incident as soon as the scene is over, yet makes it clear the captain is actively looking for a reason to get rid of her (and that certainly would have qualified).
I mean, if we're just going to go with 'the show doesn't make sense' I guess I can buy that, but you can't have it both ways. Either it does, or it doesn't. So if it doesn't, then there's no need arguing about whether anything makes sense going forward.
At first after watching the trailer for this show, I was extremely underwhelmed. Even so, I figured I'd give the show a chance and watch what I could. Thanks to YouTube, I was able to watch the first episode. I know I'm late to the party but I figured I'd chime in.
The animation style for the show fits the "comedy" theme they attempted. The ship design is not the worst I've seen but it still makes no sense to me. The uniforms look nice. The general story was actually decent. Mariner actually having been to the planet before during her last assignment and seemingly made friends and wanted to help them out this time, was a good thing.
That said, the "humor" I didn't find funny. I didn't laugh at a single thing in the episode. And that may actually be a backhanded compliment since I didn't even react to any of the ludicrous events that happened either. Like Ransom getting bit and blowing off the need to getting it looked at. Or the whole spider thing with Boimler.
The 4 main characters, eh. Mariner is annoying and is the least likable for me. Boimler might okay at best, but still kind of meh. Tendi and Rutherford actually were the ones I liked the most. The Captain's relationship with Mariner I kind of suspected, but how negative it was left a bad taste in my mouth. And the Admiral...
Overall, I don't think I'll go out of my way to watch any other episodes of this show. I really have no idea who this show is aimed towards, but it's clearly not me. And that's fine. Not everyone is going to like everything. I actually hope that if enough people like the show and it becomes a success, it allows other takes on Star Trek shows a chance.
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Comments
You are right that "good" and "bad" are purely subjective terms on an individual basis. It's like literal 'taste'; a flavor that is "good" to one person may not be to another, and vice versa. And yet, neither of those people are "wrong" in liking or disliking a taste.
HOWEVER, there is a factor that is actually measurable: financial success. Although we obviously don't know their specific logic and calculations, I can 100% guarantee you that CBS has a viewership number a show needs to hit to justify it's cost. We don't know what the number is, but they do. A show either hits that number (and has either attracted or retained enough people based on that viewership) and gets renewed, or it doesn't.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
For instance ENT was cancelled when it had better viewer numbers than a lot of other shows that were not cut, and it was even gaining viewership at the time. It came down to Moonves simply did not like science fiction, especially Star Trek so he cancelled it with the reasoning that Star Trek was on continuously for too many years and that viewers would get sick of it soon.
DSC is in the opposite boat, whatever the numbers CBS cannot cancel it without risking their streaming service since all the hype and strife it generated inextricably tied the health of DSC and CBSAA together in the minds of the public, including the notoriously fickle and important investors (and no company likes to see their stock drop even a little). That situation will continue until they get another show or shows hat can carry CBSAA well enough to satisfy the investors that there will not be a slump if it goes.
And that kind of thing is not just CBS, all of the networks are more skeptical about their sci-fi shows than they are the other shows they carry, Fox being the poster child for cancelling sci-fi shows before they even have a change to prove themselves.
My character Tsin'xing
No, it was cancelled shortly before the strike started, only the last three episodes were still in production by the time it started, and they were already written. The writer's strike did end up killing a few other shows though iirc.
I think the writer's strike thing started because the very last episode seemed so rushed and poorly written that people figured it had to have been written by a non-writer. But the actual reason was because the show was so suddenly cancelled and Moonves ordered them to write a "breaker" episode (one that intentionally destroys the show's chemistry to keep fan efforts to save it to a minimum).
The writers outsmarted him by having the breaker episode be a holodeck simulation which left the possibility that the "official record" may have been faked, but efforts to save the show still failed because what used to be Desilu was at that point a house studio and not an independent who could go to another network with Moonves sitting on the IP.
And the Janeway Protocol was hilarious.
My character Tsin'xing
I am getting a little worried that I may start to dislike Mariner if she doesn't change soon. Her personality is one thing, but when you combine that personality with also being "too good at everything"...it's just starting to grate on me a little. Not a lot, yet. But it's starting to. So I hope they can find some way to advance her character beyond "GO! GO! GO! I'm the best! Told'ya so!".
On the other hand, I'm really really enjoying Rutherford and Tendi.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
My character Tsin'xing
Yeah, I just hope it doesn't turn out to be "she disobeyed orders...but she was right for doing so" thing. I just don't enjoy characters that are always right and always know the right thing to do all the time. Especially when they are constantly saying they're the best.
I hope the reason she got demoted was because she actually made a real mistake. And possibly even got other people hurt or killed. That would actually give her some depth and maybe even suggest her behavior/personality is really just covering up for guilt/regrets about mistakes she has made.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
LD's been better, I feel, than what they been putting out the past 15 years.
My character Tsin'xing
I didn't particularly like the two girls, they were more annoying than not, especially Mariner who strikes me as Mary Sue, and it baffles me that somehow the captain didn't kick her off the ship for slicing open Boimler's leg, and wants him to get more dirt on her instead. She could be almost interesting with her history, but not how it was portrayed here. Overall she was just utterly unlikable.
Tendi just seems like the fake kind of person that agrees with everyone, yet at the same time it seemed like they weren't trying to portray her that way. I didn't find most of her excitement at all funny, but I was amused at the exchange in sickbay when she meets the nurse she needs to report to.
The guys were awkward but I didn't dislike them, they were somewhat endearing and interesting. The Vulcan implant suppressing the cyborg's emotions is an interesting quirk, although the weird obsession with the engineering problem that ended his date was sad, not funny. I was amused by the date and their continuing despite the situation so I think it was a little jarring to see it end as sadly as it did, and that's supposed to be the joke, but it didn't land.
Boimler seems most normal of the lot, for the type that is eager and wants to advance, and I think that youthful enthusiasm can set up jokes, but in this episode he was relegated to just being Mariner's pathetic sidekick, and the butt of unfunny jokes.
One of the more annoying things was the speed talking, especially from Mariner. What is the point of that? I'm wondering if I played it at .75x speed if it would work better. A lot of comedy requires a comedic pause and this show obviously lacked any of that.
I liked the title sequence. It seemed to be setting up a funny take on Trek, even if the preceeding scene was utterly unfunny. The plot and general tenor of the show could easily have worked as more serious Trek. And the art, though the character style was boring and looks like every other cartoon, the attention to the Star Trek details was really good.
The end scene really annoyed me, though, just name dropping a bunch of ST characters which made it plainly obvious they were trying to say, "hey we know Star Trek!" in a way that just looks patronizing. It could have worked if they made up some fictional names to offer a sign that they would like to add to the lore instead of just regurgitating it.
Overall I rate it C-. I'd watch it for free to kill some time.
For whatever reason the show seemed to ignore that actually happening. Her mom, who was actively looking for bad behavior, apparently heard nothing about this. And she definitely would have heard about it from the doctor. So it seems that that scene was for comedy, then effectively "never happened" outside of that scene.
Good question; hopefully we will find out.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I hadn't read your post when I made my previous reply, but we're obviously on the same page about her slicing Boimler's leg. As soon as that scene is over the show pretends it never happened, as her mom clearly doesn't know about it (and as I mentioned the doctor definitely would have informed her).
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
She also thinks fast on her feet, that chop would have severed a major artery that runs down the inside of the thigh so even drunk she had to have gotten something out of the junk box to bind the wound until he got to sickbay or he would have likely died before he made it to the turbolift.
Beat me to it.
Because that's her daughter, and she promised Mariner's father (an admiral) that she'd give Mariner a chance. The only "out" he gave her was if Mariner wasn't "fitting in", and as we saw in the last scene of ep 1, "Second Contact", she's fitting in just fine.
Boimler's a kind of guy I'm really familiar with, both in and out of the military. He thinks he knows just what to do in all situations, and at least half the time he's wrong. In this ep he failed to learn basic Klingon courtesy, thinking he was supposed to show deference the way he would to a Starfleet superior (which to a Klingon says that either you're too weak to desire his respect, which means he's insulted because you were assigned to pilot him, or you don't think he's strong enough to handle a challenge from you, which is a whole different level of disrespect). He also assumed he knew how to speak an alien language, which almost got him thrashed by the alien equivalent of a rowdy teenager, and while his initial instincts regarding Ferengi were accurate enough, his reaction could well have sparked an interstellar war if the particular Ferengi hadn't been play-acting.
His voice actor summed the character up as "the kind of guy who'd ace the written portion of the driver's test, but once you get him behind the wheel it's a disaster."
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The issue isn't so much that he survived, its that the captain should have been informed about the incident, if not from the ensigns, unquestionably from the doctor. And that incident alone would have been enough to kick Mariner off the ship, and probably out of Starfleet. The trailer had a similar level of incident when she fired a phaser at Boimler behind a force field, which as Ep 1 establishes, she knows full well is against a bunch of regulations.
Let's be honest: if we translate this to real live, both Boimler and Mariner would be dead. Boimler would be dead because of incompetence, for the reasons you described. Mariner would be dead because of arrogance, because a bullet on a battlefield doesn't care how cool you think you are. An army friend said it best: "hot shots" get shot.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
My character Tsin'xing
It's also a cartoon parody, so to speak. Mostly fun stuff, and not toooo much of the deep stuff.
And remember, this ship and crew is not the best of the best.
If there is a hint of Rick & Morty in there aside from the art style, I would expect that it will take some time for Boimler to gain some upper hand over Mariner, and Mariner will never stop being extraordinary good at whatever she does, but we will see her demons.
I wouldn't call it a parody, but yes its trying to be a comedic, less serious take on trek. I definitely gave the show passes on a lot of stuff because of that, where it is more absurd or silly or whatever. I don't have a problem with it doing goofy things in general.
However, there's a line there for suspension of disbelief. There is only so much carelessness in your weapons handling, with near-fatal disregard for someone's life, that a Starfleet officer can do and still be believable, even in a comedy show. I mean she's actively trying to kill him in her drunkeness, its not like she's tossing things from the box over her back and it happens to slice his leg open in that sort of gag. That would have gotten a pass from me if that were how it happened.
And not only does it cross that line with the batleth, it ties it into a screwy knot when later in the very same episode, the captain wants dirt on Mariner and the opening scene is entirely forgotten. What was even the point of that scene? It literally has no purpose. It isn't funny, it has no relevance to the plot or rest of the episode when it actually should, and is instead entirely ignored.
I disagree. I don't think she was trying to kill him, or even hurt him. I think she was playing around. She shouldn't have been, but my point is that I didn't get the impression it was intentional.
That said, I'm also going to have to disagree with smokebailey's apparent view that just because it's a comedy it doesn't need to make sense. What we're talking about is not some 'technicality'; it's a completely legitimate point. The show completely ignores the bat'leth incident as soon as the scene is over, yet makes it clear the captain is actively looking for a reason to get rid of her (and that certainly would have qualified).
I mean, if we're just going to go with 'the show doesn't make sense' I guess I can buy that, but you can't have it both ways. Either it does, or it doesn't. So if it doesn't, then there's no need arguing about whether anything makes sense going forward.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The animation style for the show fits the "comedy" theme they attempted. The ship design is not the worst I've seen but it still makes no sense to me. The uniforms look nice. The general story was actually decent. Mariner actually having been to the planet before during her last assignment and seemingly made friends and wanted to help them out this time, was a good thing.
That said, the "humor" I didn't find funny. I didn't laugh at a single thing in the episode. And that may actually be a backhanded compliment since I didn't even react to any of the ludicrous events that happened either. Like Ransom getting bit and blowing off the need to getting it looked at. Or the whole spider thing with Boimler.
The 4 main characters, eh. Mariner is annoying and is the least likable for me. Boimler might okay at best, but still kind of meh. Tendi and Rutherford actually were the ones I liked the most. The Captain's relationship with Mariner I kind of suspected, but how negative it was left a bad taste in my mouth. And the Admiral...
Overall, I don't think I'll go out of my way to watch any other episodes of this show. I really have no idea who this show is aimed towards, but it's clearly not me. And that's fine. Not everyone is going to like everything. I actually hope that if enough people like the show and it becomes a success, it allows other takes on Star Trek shows a chance.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.