A fully developed Ferengi faction with a few of the "outcast" races as "contracted species" (Breenm Tzen, etc). More of a storyline around Feregeni organized crime, profiteers and occasionally mercenaries for the alliance. It would be very easy to let their storyline reflect some of the darker tones in more recent star trek content... but only after fixing the top thousand bugs.
A fully developed Ferengi faction with a few of the "outcast" races as "contracted species" (Breenm Tzen, etc). More of a storyline around Feregeni organized crime, profiteers and occasionally mercenaries for the alliance. It would be very easy to let their storyline reflect some of the darker tones in more recent star trek content... but only after fixing the top thousand bugs.
That sounds more like a pirate faction, just need to add Orions, Nausicaans and Humans to that faction's list of playable races.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
We definitely need something like that for Star Trek Online, but then again, the devs don't even spend any time on this forum interacting and reading what the community of players posts.
I think they'd be more open to that if the forumites would be more reasonable and not instantly attack them on sight for whatever the current rage inducer is for the day. I hate to say it but for the most part the Forums are a Lion's Den for the Devs. The second they try and interact with us, out come the pitch forks.
Right now the only real interaction we're getting directly with the devs is the weekly livestreams hosted by AmbassadorKael. Those seem to be a lot more civil.
I would LOVE to be able to help imporve STO even in some minor way, but the fact of the matter is as long as the Forums are a potential toxic zone for the Devs, they're not likely to visit often because what is the point of trying to communicate with us if all they get in return is venom and rage on sight?
I would LOVE to be proven wrong on this. I want to be able to contribute some kind of feedback for the Devs alongside other players. But as long as we got that toxic corner that comes out and attacks when Cryptic does ANYTHING... we're not likely to see that over here because our legit concerns and contributions will be drowned out by the rage posters.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
We definitely need something like that for Star Trek Online, but then again, the devs don't even spend any time on this forum interacting and reading what the community of players posts.
Except Cryptic obviously does spend time reading player posts, as, ever since the Discovery content started, they have been going through and giving players things they have been asking for awhile now.
Items stacking to much higher quantities so they have up less inventory slots
Admiralty ship cards being auto claimed instead of having to manually buy/discharge each ship
More filers/search options across the game's inventory and C-store
Making reputation sponsorship automatic so people don't need to deal with those tokens
The "fill all" button for rep projects to reduce the amount of clicks
Just to name a few. And we know they have a few more, like a dedicated EV suit slot, in the plans for some point in time.
If Cryptic wasn't aware of what the players are saying, none of these things would have happened.
Very minor things! If they want to get noticed, then lets start with a Community Manager that can proof-read! Not that he is doing a bad job, but he could definitely do a better job! Official announcements on the forums around the same time they go out over social media would also be nice! How about some actual things, like returning some of the missions they have removed in a remastered state? How about less restrictions on costume mixing? How about them paying attention and actually adding some of the fluff from the Costume Request thread? Outside of them offering up the Fed Legendary Pack of ships, I haven't seen anything worth mentioning and that includes everything you mentioned. To each their own though. I'm sure all of those things you mention matter to you and others, which is good that they got done. Personally though, I would rather see the Rep System account-wide.
We definitely need something like that for Star Trek Online, but then again, the devs don't even spend any time on this forum interacting and reading what the community of players posts.
Except Cryptic obviously does spend time reading player posts, as, ever since the Discovery content started, they have been going through and giving players things they have been asking for awhile now.
Items stacking to much higher quantities so they have up less inventory slots
Admiralty ship cards being auto claimed instead of having to manually buy/discharge each ship
More filers/search options across the game's inventory and C-store
Making reputation sponsorship automatic so people don't need to deal with those tokens
The "fill all" button for rep projects to reduce the amount of clicks
Just to name a few. And we know they have a few more, like a dedicated EV suit slot, in the plans for some point in time.
If Cryptic wasn't aware of what the players are saying, none of these things would have happened.
Most of the things you mention, while welcome changes, are just things that can be considered maintainance. Postponed maintenance even.
Maintaining a proper functioning of the exchange or the C-store (which is just badly organised by THEIR design) for example, or ensuring that the same item doesn't take up ten different places in someone's inventory, are basic functions that players shouldn't have to be grateful for. They're core systems that should be functioning properly, ensuring they do, is what we may expect in the first place.
The other stuff you mention is just undoing some of the grindy additions to the game. No one wants to run a dozen reputations each day. The fact that they required players to press multiple buttons each day was bad design. It should've been just one press of a button in the first place.
You praising them for improvements like these, is like being very happy that the guy who steals your lunch money every day, decides to do it only 4 out of 5 working days from now on.
It's great and all that they did this, but it shouldn't have been necessary for players to wait so long for some minor improvements that should've been there from the start, when the system was designed.
We definitely need something like that for Star Trek Online, but then again, the devs don't even spend any time on this forum interacting and reading what the community of players posts.
I think they'd be more open to that if the forumites would be more reasonable and not instantly attack them on sight for whatever the current rage inducer is for the day. I hate to say it but for the most part the Forums are a Lion's Den for the Devs. The second they try and interact with us, out come the pitch forks.
Right now the only real interaction we're getting directly with the devs is the weekly livestreams hosted by AmbassadorKael. Those seem to be a lot more civil.
I would LOVE to be able to help imporve STO even in some minor way, but the fact of the matter is as long as the Forums are a potential toxic zone for the Devs, they're not likely to visit often because what is the point of trying to communicate with us if all they get in return is venom and rage on sight?
I would LOVE to be proven wrong on this. I want to be able to contribute some kind of feedback for the Devs alongside other players. But as long as we got that toxic corner that comes out and attacks when Cryptic does ANYTHING... we're not likely to see that over here because our legit concerns and contributions will be drowned out by the rage posters.
Oh please. Not this again.
The toxicity argument is just an excuse. A very bad one, I might add.
And even if it weren't: they have moderators. Who can remove toxic players (as has been done a lot). What kind of company maintains a forum only to avoid it themselves because they think it's toxic?
Not to mention that just sharing news is also done first on other media instead of here. Are you also going to argue that this is due to players' alleged toxicity?
Besides, they should make sure that things are working properly in the first place. If they aren't (and everyone's prepared to forgive them for that, people make mistakes), they should take responsibility and communicate. Players shouldn't have to wait endlessly to get some feedback on a very expensive purchase (the Mudd Risian Corvette, to name just an example that's currently relevant).
There's no excuse to remain silent about such things. Customers deserve feedback. That's a basic right and a matter of good business practice when someone's hard-earned money is involved.
Given that players deserve an explanation in such as case and that some things (like the level 11 doffs) have not been working properly for years, players are actually quite patient if you ask me. Comparing them to pitchfork folk is really unfair.
Discussions may get tense, blaming everything on 'toxicity' is just a cheap excuse to avoid taking responsibility. Besides, discussions usually only get tenser when there's no sort of any reply or proper explanation supported with legitimate arguments - basically, when players are entirely left in the dark.
Or when other excuses take the place of good arguments, resulting in them making downright weird claims; claims that are so illogical that they are capable of making Vulcans weep.
(Examples:Removing exploration clusters because there would be R&D nodes in them for example - or randomly removing some missions from a system when the only arguments they use to support that decision would render the entire system pointless and almost devoid of ANY content).
There was a time when there was more interaction between the Devs and players. In the bug section for example, but also here, in the news and general sections. You and I may have different memories, but I remember it as a time when Devs were generally treated with respect, proper arguments were explained (Borticus and TacoFangs did this very well on many occasions for example) and so on. And that bit of interaction and proper explanation, made things more acceptable.
There's always been disagreement. But to say that there has always been a toxic attitude here, is simply not true. When they actually interacted with players, the atmosphere here was pretty friendly.
The main reason devs don't frequent the forums is probably time, just look at how quickly hot topics (the ones that need the most action usually) fill up pages and pages. Maybe they could use a full time mod wrangler to work with the mods on gleaning and organizing information and providing official feedback when it is available from the devs. They do that in a lot of other games, and some of those people are quite popular with the forumites.
It is a totally different skillset than is required for devs, and having someone who has it in the forums can really calm things down (Defiance is a good example, back before it went into the zombie state with one foot in the maintenance mode grave they had an official spokesperson like that, but now they don't and the forums have sunk to troll swamp level.
Most of the things you mention, while welcome changes, are just things that can be considered maintainance. Postponed maintenance even.
Maintaining a proper functioning of the exchange or the C-store (which is just badly organised by THEIR design) for example, or ensuring that the same item doesn't take up ten different places in someone's inventory, are basic functions that players shouldn't have to be grateful for. They're core systems that should be functioning properly, ensuring they do, is what we may expect in the first place.
The other stuff you mention is just undoing some of the grindy additions to the game. No one wants to run a dozen reputations each day. The fact that they required players to press multiple buttons each day was bad design. It should've been just one press of a button in the first place.
You praising them for improvements like these, is like being very happy that the guy who steals your lunch money every day, decides to do it only 4 out of 5 working days from now on.
It's great and all that they did this, but it shouldn't have been necessary for players to wait so long for some minor improvements that should've been there from the start, when the system was designed.
Most of these things shouldn't have been there from the start because, when those systems were first designed, there wasn't so much in them that they needed those things. Its only long after the fact, when those systems have expanded far beyond what was originally designed for them, that these things became problems, and thus, needed solutions. You aren't going to design a QOL feature when you don't expect it to go so far as to ever need it in the first place.
Like reps not being one button click. Every other MMO I know of that has something like reps, which require more then one item to activate, require you to click for each item. This to ensure you don't accidentally put in something when you didn't want to. It isn't a problem in those games, and it wasn't a problem in STO until we started hitting 10+ reputations.
Likewise, when it comes to things like item stacking, the player absolutely SHOULD have certain items not stack, or stack so low that even a small number take up multiple inventory stacks, because resource management is a fundamental part of every game. And many items, like consumables, are limited specifically so that players can't have a stack of 999 of them at once, because that makes them rarer when in combat, and, in turn, forces people to think about when they use them, rather then just being able to stack them to 999 and keep them up 100% of the time. Every MMO, hell, pretty much every RPG, does the same thing for similar reasons.
And your comparison to someone stealing your lunch money is hilariously off-key. Minor annoyances that largely don't affect how the game plays isn't the same as being physically assaulted and having your money stolen.
This is exactly the sort of thing that causes devs to avoid their game forums(not just in STO)
Ah, there's the 'every other MMO I know of' (fallacy) again.
I think we already reached the conclusion that that doesn't say a lot, last time.
because resource management is a fundamental part of every game.
Resource management, yes. Pointless clicking and endlessly removing stuff you've just picked up, is only a feature if the game is badly designed. There's (surprise!) no fun in that, it doesn't add anything. And no, that's not a part of every game. In Warframe, to name just one example (look: I can go into specifics instead of talking about 'every other MMO') you don't need to endlessly click to remove random TRIBBLE from your inventory for example.
And your comparison to someone stealing your lunch money is hilariously off-key. Minor annoyances that largely don't affect how the game plays isn't the same as being physically assaulted and having your money stolen.
I suggest you look up something like the term 'reasoning by analogy'. If you don't get the message, it's likely because you're not willing to understand it. I'll give you one more hint in case you really need it: the common element is the bad experience that's made slightly better.
Most of these things shouldn't have been there from the start because, when those systems were first designed, there wasn't so much in them that they needed those things.
Reputations have always involved selecting projects and run them. This is just BS and it's in no way a refutation of what I pointed out: that they could have had them designed such that it was always more user-friendly, as in, one-click activation of anything you may want to do there.
This is exactly the sort of thing that causes devs to avoid their game forums(not just in STO)
Why? Are they allergic to reasoning and arguments?
Strange thing for a crew working on a game set in an universe / utopic future imagination of our world that is supposed to celebrate reason, advancement through it and discussion of ideas.
You know, maybe you shouldn't try to talk on behalf of them. Even if you're perfectly capable of doing so, if what's written above is true.
The main reason devs don't frequent the forums is probably time, just look at how quickly hot topics (the ones that need the most action usually) fill up pages and pages. Maybe they could use a full time mod wrangler to work with the mods on gleaning and organizing information and providing official feedback when it is available from the devs. They do that in a lot of other games, and some of those people are quite popular with the forumites.
It is a totally different skillset than is required for devs, and having someone who has it in the forums can really calm things down (Defiance is a good example, back before it went into the zombie state with one foot in the maintenance mode grave they had an official spokesperson like that, but now they don't and the forums have sunk to troll swamp level.
You know, you point out something very important here. Everyone is talking about Devs visiting the forums, but it doesn't even need to be Devs.
Issues such as the Risian Corvette Mudd fleet unlock for example, require an answer. Not necessarily one from a Dev, just anyone at Cryptic with insider-info.
And it's the same with other issues such as the random rotation thing. But it seems they're just scared of encountering any kind of opposition to whatever changes they make (not just the 'toxic' kind) and therefore avoid any and all discussion.
That's just sad, really. I'm sure that, as reasonable people, (like most of those working on projects that require imagination and creativity tend to be), they understand the value of discussion, feedback, critical reflection and acceptance of arguments that may not support your actions/decisions/position etc. but which are undeniably true.
They're not doing themselves a favour with closed-mindedness and avoiding all kind of contact with anyone who might post some criticism.
The toxicity argument is just an excuse. A very bad one, I might add.
Still valid. Just look at the insanity that came out with the Lower Decks DOffs.
And even if it weren't: they have moderators. Who can remove toxic players (as has been done a lot). What kind of company maintains a forum only to avoid it themselves because they think it's toxic?
We have a grand total of 2 active Mods, with a third who is unable to come on the forums due to RL, who are volunteers. They can't be everywhere.
Not to mention that just sharing news is also done first on other media instead of here. Are you also going to argue that this is due to players' alleged toxicity?
I can't say if its the toxic attitudes or not. More likely more people use social media than the forums.
Besides, they should make sure that things are working properly in the first place. If they aren't (and everyone's prepared to forgive them for that, people make mistakes), they should take responsibility and communicate. Players shouldn't have to wait endlessly to get some feedback on a very expensive purchase (the Mudd Risian Corvette, to name just an example that's currently relevant).
A few times they have, and the usual suspects went into attack mode. Many of us WANT that feedback, but we have that little corner that always pulls out the pitchforks and gets VERY vocal. Also we seem to see a lot of one or low post wonders showing up to back them up too. Does it happen ALL the time? Probably not, but its pretty frequent.
There was a time when there was more interaction between the Devs and players. In the bug section for example, but also here, in the news and general sections. You and I may have different memories, but I remember it as a time when Devs were generally treated with respect, proper arguments were explained (Borticus and TacoFangs did this very well on many occasions for example) and so on. And that bit of interaction and proper explanation, made things more acceptable.
There's always been disagreement. But to say that there has always been a toxic attitude here, is simply not true. When they actually interacted with players, the atmosphere here was pretty friendly.
I've been around since just before F2P, at least in game. Forums a bit later after that. There are certain topics that trigger the rage group. But over the years it literally feels like the fact Cryptic exists at all is an excuse to rage at some decision or another. And I'm honestly tired of that.
I didn't really get to know Branflakes, but what I knew of him told me he was a good CM. Trendy was also a good one, engaging with the community. CaptainSmirk... eh... not really good honestly. AmbassadorKael is doing alright, but does end up eating a lot of flak at times too.
I admit I never really ventured into the Bug section of the forums. Mostly General and Ten Forward. I think what we both can agree on is the fact that we would like more interaction between the Devs and the playerbase. I'm just stating what I've seen in my corners of the forums. Kelvin Timeline and Discovery seem to set off the rage posters. Hell... we had to have the Gatekeeping rule established because it got worse than the Forum Fires of Delta Rising.
We do have a toxic problem on the forums. Its hard to have a civil discussion without getting aggressive. Just look at the thread about PvP that's active right now. Whenever it looks like its gonna be civil... something happens to set a fire.
I'm not trying to make excuses. We BOTH want the same thing. I just prefer to not attribute the lack of attention to willful neglect of the forums. Only reason I can think of for the lack of Devs popping in and adding their 2 ECs is a combination of getting swarmed and the rage posters. It is very hard to filter out legit suggestions and concerns when you have others rage posting. And our two Mods can't keep up all the time. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. I accept that. But right now... there is evidence to support the theory, especially when certain hot button topics are brought up.
Technically we're both on the same side here. We just see different potential reasons.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
A flag for your toon that you can turn on that says WORKING ON AN ENDEAVOUR. I swear I had to dispose of 30 undine ships and every damn point I went to I got swarmed with other people, and i went intentionally to a low population instance. even after saying in chat that i was doing an endeavour and to "NOT HELP ME" they followed me point to point. it took 4 times as long as if they have left me the hell alone
The toxicity argument is just an excuse. A very bad one, I might add.
Still valid. Just look at the insanity that came out with the Lower Decks DOffs.
And even if it weren't: they have moderators. Who can remove toxic players (as has been done a lot). What kind of company maintains a forum only to avoid it themselves because they think it's toxic?
We have a grand total of 2 active Mods, with a third who is unable to come on the forums due to RL, who are volunteers. They can't be everywhere.
Not to mention that just sharing news is also done first on other media instead of here. Are you also going to argue that this is due to players' alleged toxicity?
I can't say if its the toxic attitudes or not. More likely more people use social media than the forums.
Besides, they should make sure that things are working properly in the first place. If they aren't (and everyone's prepared to forgive them for that, people make mistakes), they should take responsibility and communicate. Players shouldn't have to wait endlessly to get some feedback on a very expensive purchase (the Mudd Risian Corvette, to name just an example that's currently relevant).
A few times they have, and the usual suspects went into attack mode. Many of us WANT that feedback, but we have that little corner that always pulls out the pitchforks and gets VERY vocal. Also we seem to see a lot of one or low post wonders showing up to back them up too. Does it happen ALL the time? Probably not, but its pretty frequent.
There was a time when there was more interaction between the Devs and players. In the bug section for example, but also here, in the news and general sections. You and I may have different memories, but I remember it as a time when Devs were generally treated with respect, proper arguments were explained (Borticus and TacoFangs did this very well on many occasions for example) and so on. And that bit of interaction and proper explanation, made things more acceptable.
There's always been disagreement. But to say that there has always been a toxic attitude here, is simply not true. When they actually interacted with players, the atmosphere here was pretty friendly.
I've been around since just before F2P, at least in game. Forums a bit later after that. There are certain topics that trigger the rage group. But over the years it literally feels like the fact Cryptic exists at all is an excuse to rage at some decision or another. And I'm honestly tired of that.
I didn't really get to know Branflakes, but what I knew of him told me he was a good CM. Trendy was also a good one, engaging with the community. CaptainSmirk... eh... not really good honestly. AmbassadorKael is doing alright, but does end up eating a lot of flak at times too.
I admit I never really ventured into the Bug section of the forums. Mostly General and Ten Forward. I think what we both can agree on is the fact that we would like more interaction between the Devs and the playerbase. I'm just stating what I've seen in my corners of the forums. Kelvin Timeline and Discovery seem to set off the rage posters. Hell... we had to have the Gatekeeping rule established because it got worse than the Forum Fires of Delta Rising.
We do have a toxic problem on the forums. Its hard to have a civil discussion without getting aggressive. Just look at the thread about PvP that's active right now. Whenever it looks like its gonna be civil... something happens to set a fire.
I'm not trying to make excuses. We BOTH want the same thing. I just prefer to not attribute the lack of attention to willful neglect of the forums. Only reason I can think of for the lack of Devs popping in and adding their 2 ECs is a combination of getting swarmed and the rage posters. It is very hard to filter out legit suggestions and concerns when you have others rage posting. And our two Mods can't keep up all the time. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. I accept that. But right now... there is evidence to support the theory, especially when certain hot button topics are brought up.
Technically we're both on the same side here. We just see different potential reasons.
They could always hire someone to moderate the forums. Someone whose job it would be.
It's better than no communication at all.
Kael's certainly doing a good job, perhaps even better than Trendy in some ways (like banning the most obvious trolls).
Yes, there are toxic parts. I never meant to imply that it doesn't exist at all on here. I just don't think that should be an excuse for not trying to engage with the community. Bad apples should be removed, as has been done in the past, instead of being allowed to spoil everything.
I just think it's weird to maintain forums if you're not willing to engage on them.
Maybe they're reading and taking ideas from here, taking notes. But unless that's the case, I just don't understand it. Communication (or the forum as a platform allowing for it) is rather pointless if it's almost entirely one-sided. Or, two-sided as in both Cryptic and players announce things - but separately, without any sort of meaningful interaction.
I just think it's weird to maintain forums if you're not willing to engage on them.
Maybe they're reading and taking ideas from here, taking notes. But unless that's the case, I just don't understand it. Communication (or the forum as a platform allowing for it) is rather pointless if it's almost entirely one-sided. Or, two-sided as in both Cryptic and players announce things - but separately, without any sort of meaningful interaction.
The FCT 2.0 explains why. One can agree or disagree with the decision but it is what it is.
They could always hire someone to moderate the forums. Someone whose job it would be.
So Cryptic should fire a dev to pay for a moderator who would only be on here for 8 hours a day? and you know if they hired an official moderator, he/she would not be just on STO, but all the cryptic games PWE owns. and don't look to China to hire a mod, they would shut the whole shebang down first. I belong to more than a few forums, and I think the guys on here do an admirable job. they follow the rules pretty much to the letter and I have rarely seen them give leeway to "regs" or 'Cliques" or however you want to describe the regular power posters on here.
A flag for your toon that you can turn on that says WORKING ON AN ENDEAVOUR. I swear I had to dispose of 30 undine ships and every damn point I went to I got swarmed with other people, and i went intentionally to a low population instance. even after saying in chat that i was doing an endeavour and to "NOT HELP ME" they followed me point to point. it took 4 times as long as if they have left me the hell alone
A while back, I suggested reducing the max amount of players in an instance.
The Undine zone can be overcrowded indeed. Just today, I had to deal 500k kinetic damage in space. Easy for my Exotic Sci main, I should've been able to finish in a minute or so.
Except that I picked the Undine zone to do it. Only two instances existed - one had the Voth round going, meaning everything gets killed before my anomalies and DRB can deal their over-time damage. The other one only had a Federation point that remained uncaptured - the ones where you have to wait like a full minute or so for one single ship to appear.
Switched back to the other one, could kill some enemies. Had to wait three more minutes (why is this reset timer a thing anyway?) and then I could complete it in another 30 seconds.
Basically, I spent almost ten minutes switching instances, mostly watching things blow up and making a few kills, waiting for a reset and then finally completing a mission in 30 more seconds.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
They could always hire someone to moderate the forums. Someone whose job it would be.
So Cryptic should fire a dev to pay for a moderator who would only be on here for 8 hours a day? and you know if they hired an official moderator, he/she would not be just on STO, but all the cryptic games PWE owns. and don't look to China to hire a mod, they would shut the whole shebang down first. I belong to more than a few forums, and I think the guys on here do an admirable job. they follow the rules pretty much to the letter and I have rarely seen them give leeway to "regs" or 'Cliques" or however you want to describe the regular power posters on here.
I was thinking of India. Or Tellar Prime perhaps!
More seriously: I'm not saying that we need more mods, per se. I'm pointing out that IF toxicity is a very serious issue here, they could hire a mod. I think it's a stretch to argue that that would mean firing a Dev.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
Hopefully Baddmoon comes back. He was pretty good at spearating his own opinions from his duties as a Mod.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
They could always hire someone to moderate the forums. Someone whose job it would be.
So Cryptic should fire a dev to pay for a moderator who would only be on here for 8 hours a day? and you know if they hired an official moderator, he/she would not be just on STO, but all the cryptic games PWE owns. and don't look to China to hire a mod, they would shut the whole shebang down first. I belong to more than a few forums, and I think the guys on here do an admirable job. they follow the rules pretty much to the letter and I have rarely seen them give leeway to "regs" or 'Cliques" or however you want to describe the regular power posters on here.
I was thinking of India. Or Tellar Prime perhaps!
More seriously: I'm not saying that we need more mods, per se. I'm pointing out that IF toxicity is a very serious issue here, they could hire a mod. I think it's a stretch to argue that that would mean firing a Dev.
Cryptic doesn't have the deep pockets people seem to think they have. if they could afford more people they would hire devs.
They could always hire someone to moderate the forums. Someone whose job it would be.
So Cryptic should fire a dev to pay for a moderator who would only be on here for 8 hours a day? and you know if they hired an official moderator, he/she would not be just on STO, but all the cryptic games PWE owns. and don't look to China to hire a mod, they would shut the whole shebang down first. I belong to more than a few forums, and I think the guys on here do an admirable job. they follow the rules pretty much to the letter and I have rarely seen them give leeway to "regs" or 'Cliques" or however you want to describe the regular power posters on here.
I was thinking of India. Or Tellar Prime perhaps!
More seriously: I'm not saying that we need more mods, per se. I'm pointing out that IF toxicity is a very serious issue here, they could hire a mod. I think it's a stretch to argue that that would mean firing a Dev.
Cryptic doesn't have the deep pockets people seem to think they have. if they could afford more people they would hire devs.
Not having deep pockets is not a reason to allow some parts of a company to not work properly.
It seems strange that those Gorn can throw rocks further than we can shoot with energy weapons.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
What's even stranger is that they can throw rocks that are capable of changing their trajectory or the rocks will just launch themselves if you kill the Gorn after he lifts it but before he could throw it.
seems like Gorn Hegemony refused to obey the laws of physics.
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I think they'd be more open to that if the forumites would be more reasonable and not instantly attack them on sight for whatever the current rage inducer is for the day. I hate to say it but for the most part the Forums are a Lion's Den for the Devs. The second they try and interact with us, out come the pitch forks.
Right now the only real interaction we're getting directly with the devs is the weekly livestreams hosted by AmbassadorKael. Those seem to be a lot more civil.
I would LOVE to be able to help imporve STO even in some minor way, but the fact of the matter is as long as the Forums are a potential toxic zone for the Devs, they're not likely to visit often because what is the point of trying to communicate with us if all they get in return is venom and rage on sight?
I would LOVE to be proven wrong on this. I want to be able to contribute some kind of feedback for the Devs alongside other players. But as long as we got that toxic corner that comes out and attacks when Cryptic does ANYTHING... we're not likely to see that over here because our legit concerns and contributions will be drowned out by the rage posters.
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colored text = mod mode
Very minor things! If they want to get noticed, then lets start with a Community Manager that can proof-read! Not that he is doing a bad job, but he could definitely do a better job! Official announcements on the forums around the same time they go out over social media would also be nice! How about some actual things, like returning some of the missions they have removed in a remastered state? How about less restrictions on costume mixing? How about them paying attention and actually adding some of the fluff from the Costume Request thread? Outside of them offering up the Fed Legendary Pack of ships, I haven't seen anything worth mentioning and that includes everything you mentioned. To each their own though. I'm sure all of those things you mention matter to you and others, which is good that they got done. Personally though, I would rather see the Rep System account-wide.
Most of the things you mention, while welcome changes, are just things that can be considered maintainance. Postponed maintenance even.
Maintaining a proper functioning of the exchange or the C-store (which is just badly organised by THEIR design) for example, or ensuring that the same item doesn't take up ten different places in someone's inventory, are basic functions that players shouldn't have to be grateful for. They're core systems that should be functioning properly, ensuring they do, is what we may expect in the first place.
The other stuff you mention is just undoing some of the grindy additions to the game. No one wants to run a dozen reputations each day. The fact that they required players to press multiple buttons each day was bad design. It should've been just one press of a button in the first place.
You praising them for improvements like these, is like being very happy that the guy who steals your lunch money every day, decides to do it only 4 out of 5 working days from now on.
It's great and all that they did this, but it shouldn't have been necessary for players to wait so long for some minor improvements that should've been there from the start, when the system was designed.
Oh please. Not this again.
The toxicity argument is just an excuse. A very bad one, I might add.
And even if it weren't: they have moderators. Who can remove toxic players (as has been done a lot). What kind of company maintains a forum only to avoid it themselves because they think it's toxic?
Not to mention that just sharing news is also done first on other media instead of here. Are you also going to argue that this is due to players' alleged toxicity?
Besides, they should make sure that things are working properly in the first place. If they aren't (and everyone's prepared to forgive them for that, people make mistakes), they should take responsibility and communicate. Players shouldn't have to wait endlessly to get some feedback on a very expensive purchase (the Mudd Risian Corvette, to name just an example that's currently relevant).
There's no excuse to remain silent about such things. Customers deserve feedback. That's a basic right and a matter of good business practice when someone's hard-earned money is involved.
Given that players deserve an explanation in such as case and that some things (like the level 11 doffs) have not been working properly for years, players are actually quite patient if you ask me. Comparing them to pitchfork folk is really unfair.
Discussions may get tense, blaming everything on 'toxicity' is just a cheap excuse to avoid taking responsibility. Besides, discussions usually only get tenser when there's no sort of any reply or proper explanation supported with legitimate arguments - basically, when players are entirely left in the dark.
Or when other excuses take the place of good arguments, resulting in them making downright weird claims; claims that are so illogical that they are capable of making Vulcans weep.
(Examples:Removing exploration clusters because there would be R&D nodes in them for example - or randomly removing some missions from a system when the only arguments they use to support that decision would render the entire system pointless and almost devoid of ANY content).
There was a time when there was more interaction between the Devs and players. In the bug section for example, but also here, in the news and general sections. You and I may have different memories, but I remember it as a time when Devs were generally treated with respect, proper arguments were explained (Borticus and TacoFangs did this very well on many occasions for example) and so on. And that bit of interaction and proper explanation, made things more acceptable.
There's always been disagreement. But to say that there has always been a toxic attitude here, is simply not true. When they actually interacted with players, the atmosphere here was pretty friendly.
It is a totally different skillset than is required for devs, and having someone who has it in the forums can really calm things down (Defiance is a good example, back before it went into the zombie state with one foot in the maintenance mode grave they had an official spokesperson like that, but now they don't and the forums have sunk to troll swamp level.
Ah, there's the 'every other MMO I know of' (fallacy) again.
I think we already reached the conclusion that that doesn't say a lot, last time.
Resource management, yes. Pointless clicking and endlessly removing stuff you've just picked up, is only a feature if the game is badly designed. There's (surprise!) no fun in that, it doesn't add anything. And no, that's not a part of every game. In Warframe, to name just one example (look: I can go into specifics instead of talking about 'every other MMO') you don't need to endlessly click to remove random TRIBBLE from your inventory for example.
I suggest you look up something like the term 'reasoning by analogy'. If you don't get the message, it's likely because you're not willing to understand it. I'll give you one more hint in case you really need it: the common element is the bad experience that's made slightly better.
Reputations have always involved selecting projects and run them. This is just BS and it's in no way a refutation of what I pointed out: that they could have had them designed such that it was always more user-friendly, as in, one-click activation of anything you may want to do there.
Why? Are they allergic to reasoning and arguments?
Strange thing for a crew working on a game set in an universe / utopic future imagination of our world that is supposed to celebrate reason, advancement through it and discussion of ideas.
You know, maybe you shouldn't try to talk on behalf of them. Even if you're perfectly capable of doing so, if what's written above is true.
You know, you point out something very important here. Everyone is talking about Devs visiting the forums, but it doesn't even need to be Devs.
Issues such as the Risian Corvette Mudd fleet unlock for example, require an answer. Not necessarily one from a Dev, just anyone at Cryptic with insider-info.
And it's the same with other issues such as the random rotation thing. But it seems they're just scared of encountering any kind of opposition to whatever changes they make (not just the 'toxic' kind) and therefore avoid any and all discussion.
That's just sad, really. I'm sure that, as reasonable people, (like most of those working on projects that require imagination and creativity tend to be), they understand the value of discussion, feedback, critical reflection and acceptance of arguments that may not support your actions/decisions/position etc. but which are undeniably true.
They're not doing themselves a favour with closed-mindedness and avoiding all kind of contact with anyone who might post some criticism.
Just let us pick up credits, instead of white and green quality gear. Or any gear.
Increase the value of loot drops, but reduce the dropping rates.
Or add auto-discard options for gear below X mark and/or Y quality.
Just some additional ideas.
We have a grand total of 2 active Mods, with a third who is unable to come on the forums due to RL, who are volunteers. They can't be everywhere.
I can't say if its the toxic attitudes or not. More likely more people use social media than the forums.
A few times they have, and the usual suspects went into attack mode. Many of us WANT that feedback, but we have that little corner that always pulls out the pitchforks and gets VERY vocal. Also we seem to see a lot of one or low post wonders showing up to back them up too. Does it happen ALL the time? Probably not, but its pretty frequent.
I've been around since just before F2P, at least in game. Forums a bit later after that. There are certain topics that trigger the rage group. But over the years it literally feels like the fact Cryptic exists at all is an excuse to rage at some decision or another. And I'm honestly tired of that.
I didn't really get to know Branflakes, but what I knew of him told me he was a good CM. Trendy was also a good one, engaging with the community. CaptainSmirk... eh... not really good honestly. AmbassadorKael is doing alright, but does end up eating a lot of flak at times too.
I admit I never really ventured into the Bug section of the forums. Mostly General and Ten Forward. I think what we both can agree on is the fact that we would like more interaction between the Devs and the playerbase. I'm just stating what I've seen in my corners of the forums. Kelvin Timeline and Discovery seem to set off the rage posters. Hell... we had to have the Gatekeeping rule established because it got worse than the Forum Fires of Delta Rising.
We do have a toxic problem on the forums. Its hard to have a civil discussion without getting aggressive. Just look at the thread about PvP that's active right now. Whenever it looks like its gonna be civil... something happens to set a fire.
I'm not trying to make excuses. We BOTH want the same thing. I just prefer to not attribute the lack of attention to willful neglect of the forums. Only reason I can think of for the lack of Devs popping in and adding their 2 ECs is a combination of getting swarmed and the rage posters. It is very hard to filter out legit suggestions and concerns when you have others rage posting. And our two Mods can't keep up all the time. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. I accept that. But right now... there is evidence to support the theory, especially when certain hot button topics are brought up.
Technically we're both on the same side here. We just see different potential reasons.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
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They could always hire someone to moderate the forums. Someone whose job it would be.
It's better than no communication at all.
Kael's certainly doing a good job, perhaps even better than Trendy in some ways (like banning the most obvious trolls).
Yes, there are toxic parts. I never meant to imply that it doesn't exist at all on here. I just don't think that should be an excuse for not trying to engage with the community. Bad apples should be removed, as has been done in the past, instead of being allowed to spoil everything.
Maybe they're reading and taking ideas from here, taking notes. But unless that's the case, I just don't understand it. Communication (or the forum as a platform allowing for it) is rather pointless if it's almost entirely one-sided. Or, two-sided as in both Cryptic and players announce things - but separately, without any sort of meaningful interaction.
The FCT 2.0 explains why. One can agree or disagree with the decision but it is what it is.
A while back, I suggested reducing the max amount of players in an instance.
The Undine zone can be overcrowded indeed. Just today, I had to deal 500k kinetic damage in space. Easy for my Exotic Sci main, I should've been able to finish in a minute or so.
Except that I picked the Undine zone to do it. Only two instances existed - one had the Voth round going, meaning everything gets killed before my anomalies and DRB can deal their over-time damage. The other one only had a Federation point that remained uncaptured - the ones where you have to wait like a full minute or so for one single ship to appear.
Switched back to the other one, could kill some enemies. Had to wait three more minutes (why is this reset timer a thing anyway?) and then I could complete it in another 30 seconds.
Basically, I spent almost ten minutes switching instances, mostly watching things blow up and making a few kills, waiting for a reset and then finally completing a mission in 30 more seconds.
I agree on that.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I was thinking of India. Or Tellar Prime perhaps!
More seriously: I'm not saying that we need more mods, per se. I'm pointing out that IF toxicity is a very serious issue here, they could hire a mod. I think it's a stretch to argue that that would mean firing a Dev.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Cryptic doesn't have the deep pockets people seem to think they have. if they could afford more people they would hire devs.
Not having deep pockets is not a reason to allow some parts of a company to not work properly.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
What's even stranger is that they can throw rocks that are capable of changing their trajectory.
seems like Gorn Hegemony refused to obey the laws of physics.