Here’s my unpopular opinion: Discovery is a visual reboot of TOS. I don’t think there’s gonna be a refit that makes the Donnie look like the Connie. We see the Donnie in Starfleet Command. Why show that ship and not Kirk’s enterprise? Because that is Kirk’s enterprise. Kirk, Spock and McCoy boldly go in that ship and in those uniforms. This is why Discovery doesn’t match up with TOS. It wasn’t meant to.
And my opinion is that Discovery is a sequel of Enterprise not a prequel of TOS due to the aftermath of the Temporal Cold War in the 22nd Century. So most discrepancies between Discovery and TOS can be explained by temporal changes in the 22nd Century. This explanation gives an in-universe explanation for a visual reboot of TOS. The original timeline used a TOS aesthetic in the mid 23rd Century while the current timeline uses a Discovery aesthetic.
You're implying that ENT initiated a new timeline; one that has erased (of branched off from) TOS?
That being the case, where does this place TNG, DS9, VOY and PIC?
Some events would stay the same while others will change. The timeline in Star Trek is constantly being changed, but Star Trek likes to gloss over it. Killing millions of people in the Xindi attack and encountering the Xindi earlier than the original timeline would certainly cause some changes so as a result certain crew members might not exist and replaced with someone else or look different due to their original ancestor died in the Xindi attack.
There is also the possibility that the larger the temporal change, the longer it takes for the effects to be minimized. So Discovery and TOS would see some changes due to Enterprise, but any changes to TNG, DS9, VOY, and PIC would be minimized since it happened 200 years ago. Only major temporal events like destroying planets would have lasting effects while everything else will be swept away by the flow of time. After all, if my grandfather died to a time traveller and my grandmother married someone else, then that would change my DNA considerably, but if it happened to my ancestor that lived 500 years ago, then my DNA would mostly stay the same.
To be totally honest, where time travel is concerned, Trek is a mess.
You've got the future of the USS Relativity, you've got Captain Braxton, you've got the faction that Daniels was part of, all of which should've played a part in the Voyager final (and/or Year of Hell for that matter), or the JJ verse, heck, the fact that the HMS Bounty went back in time and saved some whales should've had a ripple effect on the timeline.
We've got all these temporal police, but they don't seem to manage the timeline all that well, unless they're simply not quick enough to intervene and ultimately become erased themselves, but then they'd presumably not be able to interfere in the first place!
The Bounty whale incursion was probably the least paradox potential of the bunch, the whales were being released to the wild and would have been killed by that whaler if Kirk and company had not stopped them, and (at least according to the novelization) Dr. Gillian Taylor would have died in an accident in a year or two as well, without any scientific breakthroughs or descendants to suddenly cease to exist when she went to the future with them.
Something that is a fairly standard trope in time travel stories is that paradox tends to get worse from repeated incursions to the same spot in the timeline instead of better. They had a very humorous illustration of that trope in an episode of Legends of Tomorrow ("Legends of To-Meow-Meow") where they try over and over to fix distortions from a single change and it just keeps getting worse.
The time cops or whatever in Trek probably only intervene when there is a major problem if they don't intervene, in order to prevent paradox from spreading like a run in a nylon stocking from too much meddling. A lets not forget, they act to save their own timeline, and that means that a lot of the time travel in their past is a necessary part of their own history and cannot be messed with safely.
Here’s my unpopular opinion: Discovery is a visual reboot of TOS. I don’t think there’s gonna be a refit that makes the Donnie look like the Connie. We see the Donnie in Starfleet Command. Why show that ship and not Kirk’s enterprise? Because that is Kirk’s enterprise. Kirk, Spock and McCoy boldly go in that ship and in those uniforms. This is why Discovery doesn’t match up with TOS. It wasn’t meant to.
And my opinion is that Discovery is a sequel of Enterprise not a prequel of TOS due to the aftermath of the Temporal Cold War in the 22nd Century. So most discrepancies between Discovery and TOS can be explained by temporal changes in the 22nd Century. This explanation gives an in-universe explanation for a visual reboot of TOS. The original timeline used a TOS aesthetic in the mid 23rd Century while the current timeline uses a Discovery aesthetic.
You're implying that ENT initiated a new timeline; one that has erased (of branched off from) TOS?
That being the case, where does this place TNG, DS9, VOY and PIC?
Some events would stay the same while others will change. The timeline in Star Trek is constantly being changed, but Star Trek likes to gloss over it. Killing millions of people in the Xindi attack and encountering the Xindi earlier than the original timeline would certainly cause some changes so as a result certain crew members might not exist and replaced with someone else or look different due to their original ancestor died in the Xindi attack.
There is also the possibility that the larger the temporal change, the longer it takes for the effects to be minimized. So Discovery and TOS would see some changes due to Enterprise, but any changes to TNG, DS9, VOY, and PIC would be minimized since it happened 200 years ago. Only major temporal events like destroying planets would have lasting effects while everything else will be swept away by the flow of time. After all, if my grandfather died to a time traveller and my grandmother married someone else, then that would change my DNA considerably, but if it happened to my ancestor that lived 500 years ago, then my DNA would mostly stay the same.
To be totally honest, where time travel is concerned, Trek is a mess.
You've got the future of the USS Relativity, you've got Captain Braxton, you've got the faction that Daniels was part of, all of which should've played a part in the Voyager final (and/or Year of Hell for that matter), or the JJ verse, heck, the fact that the HMS Bounty went back in time and saved some whales should've had a ripple effect on the timeline.
We've got all these temporal police, but they don't seem to manage the timeline all that well, unless they're simply not quick enough to intervene and ultimately become erased themselves, but then they'd presumably not be able to interfere in the first place!
My opinion of Temporal Police is that they are more concerned with protecting themselves than protecting the timeline. If a temporal change has a risk of erasing them from existence, then they would be involved. However, if the result is relatively minor, then they would not care.
Every time travel event should have some ripple effect on the timeline. However, bumping into someone in the 1930s would have little effect compared to destroying millions of people that shouldn't have. Star Trek has been very lazy with their save the timeline episodes and movies.
I think this is why as soon as someone gave Roddenberry money to do a Star Trek Film things started changing.
Yeah really. TOS looked like TOS because Roddenberry didn't have the budget to make it look like TMP or TNG. No one on the TOS production staff wanted it to look like it did.
Actually, while money was a big part of the reason it looked like it did, production technology was just as big a factor. Even if they had a huge budget and modern CGI it would not have looked much like TMP or TNG. TOS was made before the "realism" craze of the 1970s swept through Hollywood sci-fi and it was designed in a more fantastic futuristic style.
*snip for brevity*
That is all quite interesting, but let me just point out that neither Picard nor Discovery really try to create a "Hollywood realistic" look. All those lens flares that people complain about might have blinded some people to the truth that the controls still look quite futuristic and unlike anything that seems close to real. I mean, sure called it "Apple Store" style (though that was more directed at the Kelvin Timeline's bridge), but the point of that stlye is that it's not "realistic" or "industrial". It looks futuristic. And it still does, because usually such style, the curves, the colors, the lighting... it's not what you will find in offices and homes.
And heck, the new ship in Picard seems to have a gigantic multi-purpose room as bridge, with holographic controls and holodeck emitters everywhere so an Emergency Medical and Emergency Navigator Hologram can serve its Captain. It doesn't really look like something we've seen often.
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Here’s my unpopular opinion: Discovery is a visual reboot of TOS. I don’t think there’s gonna be a refit that makes the Donnie look like the Connie. We see the Donnie in Starfleet Command. Why show that ship and not Kirk’s enterprise? Because that is Kirk’s enterprise. Kirk, Spock and McCoy boldly go in that ship and in those uniforms. This is why Discovery doesn’t match up with TOS. It wasn’t meant to.
And my opinion is that Discovery is a sequel of Enterprise not a prequel of TOS due to the aftermath of the Temporal Cold War in the 22nd Century. So most discrepancies between Discovery and TOS can be explained by temporal changes in the 22nd Century. This explanation gives an in-universe explanation for a visual reboot of TOS. The original timeline used a TOS aesthetic in the mid 23rd Century while the current timeline uses a Discovery aesthetic.
You're implying that ENT initiated a new timeline; one that has erased (of branched off from) TOS?
That being the case, where does this place TNG, DS9, VOY and PIC?
Some events would stay the same while others will change. The timeline in Star Trek is constantly being changed, but Star Trek likes to gloss over it. Killing millions of people in the Xindi attack and encountering the Xindi earlier than the original timeline would certainly cause some changes so as a result certain crew members might not exist and replaced with someone else or look different due to their original ancestor died in the Xindi attack.
There is also the possibility that the larger the temporal change, the longer it takes for the effects to be minimized. So Discovery and TOS would see some changes due to Enterprise, but any changes to TNG, DS9, VOY, and PIC would be minimized since it happened 200 years ago. Only major temporal events like destroying planets would have lasting effects while everything else will be swept away by the flow of time. After all, if my grandfather died to a time traveller and my grandmother married someone else, then that would change my DNA considerably, but if it happened to my ancestor that lived 500 years ago, then my DNA would mostly stay the same.
To be totally honest, where time travel is concerned, Trek is a mess.
You've got the future of the USS Relativity, you've got Captain Braxton, you've got the faction that Daniels was part of, all of which should've played a part in the Voyager final (and/or Year of Hell for that matter), or the JJ verse, heck, the fact that the HMS Bounty went back in time and saved some whales should've had a ripple effect on the timeline.
We've got all these temporal police, but they don't seem to manage the timeline all that well, unless they're simply not quick enough to intervene and ultimately become erased themselves, but then they'd presumably not be able to interfere in the first place!
My opinion of Temporal Police is that they are more concerned with protecting themselves than protecting the timeline. If a temporal change has a risk of erasing them from existence, then they would be involved. However, if the result is relatively minor, then they would not care.
Every time travel event should have some ripple effect on the timeline. However, bumping into someone in the 1930s would have little effect compared to destroying millions of people that shouldn't have. Star Trek has been very lazy with their save the timeline episodes and movies.
I would say they're probably only trying to protect the Timeline from changes made by people from their own time period or later, so they wouldn't meddle with things like Kirk saving whales or the Borg stopping First Contact because those incursions were already resolved hundreds of years before their organization existed.
I think this is why as soon as someone gave Roddenberry money to do a Star Trek Film things started changing.
Yeah really. TOS looked like TOS because Roddenberry didn't have the budget to make it look like TMP or TNG. No one on the TOS production staff wanted it to look like it did.
Actually, while money was a big part of the reason it looked like it did, production technology was just as big a factor. Even if they had a huge budget and modern CGI it would not have looked much like TMP or TNG. TOS was made before the "realism" craze of the 1970s swept through Hollywood sci-fi and it was designed in a more fantastic futuristic style.
*snip for brevity*
That is all quite interesting, but let me just point out that neither Picard nor Discovery really try to create a "Hollywood realistic" look. All those lens flares that people complain about might have blinded some people to the truth that the controls still look quite futuristic and unlike anything that seems close to real. I mean, sure called it "Apple Store" style (though that was more directed at the Kelvin Timeline's bridge), but the point of that stlye is that it's not "realistic" or "industrial". It looks futuristic. And it still does, because usually such style, the curves, the colors, the lighting... it's not what you will find in offices and homes.
And heck, the new ship in Picard seems to have a gigantic multi-purpose room as bridge, with holographic controls and holodeck emitters everywhere so an Emergency Medical and Emergency Navigator Hologram can serve its Captain. It doesn't really look like something we've seen often.
I cannot say much about the Picard show since all I have seen of it so far are the trailers and a few YouTube clips, but the DSC style is firmly based in the "realistic" style that has dominated Hollywood sci-fi since the 1970s. And no, I am not saying that is a bad thing, it just is what it is, and that faintly art-deco repeating geometry style does look rather impressive even after everyone has been doing variants of it for quite a while now.
As for the controls themselves, we have touchscreen controls just like the ones on Discovery today (in fact some of the panels appear to be the same table-sized Microsoft touch stations they used in shows like the new Hawaii Five-0, just tipped in "drawing board" configuration and set in the consoles instead of standing in flat table mode by itself), there is nothing particularly futuristic about them, they are more cutting edge modern than anything else.
A little known aspect of making things futuristic is that they have to have some element of fantasy about them, a bit of playful whimsy that makes people look twice to understand what they are seeing. DSC has little or nothing of that, it is impressive, often beautiful in a regular geometric sort of way, but any of the magic it might have to it is firmly locked down by the attempt at looking practical (which it really isn't, but human engineering principles are another matter entirely).
Futuristic design often has a light and airy feel to it, and is best achieved using organic spiral curves instead of regular geometric ones and golden ratio proportions along with playfully odd angles and subtly asymmetric elements. DSC design style tends to be heavy, regular and devoid of the unexpected (though it is shiny and pretty in its own machinelike way). Futuristic is actually a rather hard style to pull off on a set, and people tend to get used to it so it looses some of the magic fairly soon (some even start calling it silly looking, like what has happened to TOS). In the real world you mostly see it in in the newer fancy highway bridge designs nowadays:
I will say this about Picard...the show is making me love the Romulans
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Ohhh yes. I enjoyed Episode 4. Did anyone recognize Seven's ship design? It reminded me of the Lokirrim patrol ship design. It might be one of Voyager's reused ship designs but changed a little.
Ohhh yes. I enjoyed Episode 4. Did anyone recognize Seven's ship design? It reminded me of the Lokirrim patrol ship design. It might be one of Voyager's reused ship designs but changed a little.
I need to watch the episode again. Nothing jumped out of my head when i saw her ship. Nothing that triggered a "ah-ha, it is so & so ship"
No, though someone on reddit mentioned that the sensor display showed something that reminded them of the Delta Flyer, or Delta Flyer / Aero Shuttle hybrid.
Can't say it looked familiar.
Rios has really a lot of holograms of himself around... Some speculate he might be a hologram himself. Seems a bit of a stretch, the injury scene in the previous episode doesn't really make sense. On the other hand - how or where would have injured himself in Earth orbit? Did he get into a fight with some Nausicaans? Or was he having some holodeck fun?
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episode 4 is really cool; the romulan in STP are so awesome, I hope that the romulans in STO will be modified. I had lost hope with discovery, but with STP I have again the faith (I don't believe in anything), that the star trek franchise will have a cool future.
I would have to all the romulan stuff seen in the episodes: weapons, costumes, hair cuts etc. Even 1000 zen for a costume bound to character, I would buy it for all my rom toons.
episode 4 is really cool; the romulan in STP are so awesome, I hope that the romulans in STO will be modified. I had lost hope with TRIBBLE, but with STP I have again the faith (I don't believe in anything), that the star trek franchise will have a cool future.
I would have to all the romulan stuff seen in the episodes: weapons, costumes, hair cuts etc. Even 1000 zen for a costume bound to character, I would buy it for all my rom toons.
The La Sirena is definitely an interesting ship - it's maneuverability was something else. I don't know if it has any real firepower, since the only thing it fought was an old bird of prey, and it had help in that. I suppose the Bird of Prey might have gotten some refits in its time, but I doubt a local warlord has the resources to bring it up to late 24th century standards.
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The La Sirena is definitely an interesting ship - it's maneuverability was something else. I don't know if it has any real firepower, since the only thing it fought was an old bird of prey, and it had help in that. I suppose the Bird of Prey might have gotten some refits in its time, but I doubt a local warlord has the resources to bring it up to late 24th century standards.
Joanne Linville's Romulan commander character stressed that the Romulans were poor but proud, and along with the fact that they were based on the ancient Romans and their tendency to build things to last, the chances are good that they would take an old ship and keep making incremental updates to keep it reasonably current.
Also, those ships were slow-firing but their main gun (that torpedo) hit like Godzilla.
Pretty near the beginning of the story when they are being briefed on the situation about the Romulus sun about to explode, the President of the Federation says "Holy F-word S-word" (the actual words, not what I wrote). And I have to admit, it really put a bad taste in my mouth.
No, I'm not opposed to profanity. I enjoy plenty of movies and TV shows with profanity. This just struck me as this novel only using this language because the show did. And it just didn't feel like Trek. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but it definitely "took me out of the story".
Another minor complaint...
Raffi is the one presenting the briefing about Romulus(and Picard does not actually know her yet). And immediately, at the very start of the briefing (before they have actually heard much of anything) Picard is whispering to someone how much he likes her and asking what her name was again. Now, I know the reason for this is they are setting up why he would pick her to be his first officer. But it just felt...silly...that he was expressing SO much interest in her immediately (again, at the start of the briefing before he has actually heard her say much at all) rather than after it was over.
So while I admit that is a minor complaint, I just hope the book isn't going to be full of things like that.
Pretty near the beginning of the story when they are being briefed on the situation about the Romulus sun about to explode, the President of the Federation says "Holy F-word S-word" (the actual words, not what I wrote). And I have to admit, it really put a bad taste in my mouth.
No, I'm not opposed to profanity. I enjoy plenty of movies and TV shows with profanity. This just struck me as this novel only using this language because the show did. And it just didn't feel like Trek. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but it definitely "took me out of the story".
I actually don't have a problem with using swears in response to getting extremely bad news about a Romulan sun about to explode since we have Data in Generations doing the same thing when they are about to crash into the planet. Although, it would be interesting to have a science fiction novel or show where people self-censor themselves so much that the actual swears become F-word and S-word with the actual swears never being used.
Did the novel actually say that the Romulus sun was about to explode or was it a Romulan star since the Star Trek 2009 comics state that it was Hobus which is 500 light years away from Romulus.
Pretty near the beginning of the story when they are being briefed on the situation about the Romulus sun about to explode, the President of the Federation says "Holy F-word S-word" (the actual words, not what I wrote). And I have to admit, it really put a bad taste in my mouth.
No, I'm not opposed to profanity. I enjoy plenty of movies and TV shows with profanity. This just struck me as this novel only using this language because the show did. And it just didn't feel like Trek. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but it definitely "took me out of the story".
I actually don't have a problem with using swears in response to getting extremely bad news about a Romulan sun about to explode since we have Data in Generations doing the same thing when they are about to crash into the planet. Although, it would be interesting to have a science fiction novel or show where people self-censor themselves so much that the actual swears become F-word and S-word with the actual swears never being used.
You know, I'm actually really happy you brought up that Data example because it helped me form my thoughts on this better than I could earlier. Think about that situation: everyone on the bridge was probably crapping their pants, so why was Data the ONLY one who cursed like that? Well, aside from the obvious RL answers about comedy, the "real" answer is that Data had just started using his emotion chip and was pretty "new" at the whole thing. The rest of the crew were professionals and knew how to control their emotions even under dire circumstances. So I guess that's why it felt so strange to have the Federation President say that. EVERYONE was probably thinking it, but you kind of expect people in high positions of government and the military to have more self control (obvious RL commander in chief jokes aside). At least, in Trek you do. Or have, up to this point.
Did the novel actually say that the Romulus sun was about to explode or was it a Romulan star since the Star Trek 2009 comics state that it was Hobus which is 500 light years away from Romulus.
Sorry I don't recall that detail. If it's referenced again I'll try to pay closer attention.
Pretty near the beginning of the story when they are being briefed on the situation about the Romulus sun about to explode, the President of the Federation says "Holy F-word S-word" (the actual words, not what I wrote). And I have to admit, it really put a bad taste in my mouth.
No, I'm not opposed to profanity. I enjoy plenty of movies and TV shows with profanity. This just struck me as this novel only using this language because the show did. And it just didn't feel like Trek. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but it definitely "took me out of the story".
I actually don't have a problem with using swears in response to getting extremely bad news about a Romulan sun about to explode since we have Data in Generations doing the same thing when they are about to crash into the planet. Although, it would be interesting to have a science fiction novel or show where people self-censor themselves so much that the actual swears become F-word and S-word with the actual swears never being used.
You know, I'm actually really happy you brought up that Data example because it helped me form my thoughts on this better than I could earlier. Think about that situation: everyone on the bridge was probably crapping their pants, so why was Data the ONLY one who cursed like that? Well, aside from the obvious RL answers about comedy, the "real" answer is that Data had just started using his emotion chip and was pretty "new" at the whole thing. The rest of the crew were professionals and knew how to control their emotions even under dire circumstances. So I guess that's why it felt so strange to have the Federation President say that. EVERYONE was probably thinking it, but you kind of expect people in high positions of government and the military to have more self control (obvious RL commander in chief jokes aside). At least, in Trek you do. Or have, up to this point.
Personally, I don't believe it matters how professional someone is, there is always some instance where they will swear. If they don't swear and/or scream in certain dire situations, then there is something wrong with them. Of course, there is a huge difference between swearing in private and swearing in public.
did that book give a name, species or gender for the president? the one immediately prior to okeg in STO was nan bacco, who was also president for that general time period in the novelverse, so i'm wondering if that was something else they used or made their own president
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
> @starkaos said: > (Quote) > > Personally, I don't believe it matters how professional someone is, there is always some instance where they will swear. If they don't swear and/or scream in certain dire situations, then there is something wrong with them. Of course, there is a huge difference between swearing in private and swearing in public.
I agree. But that also goes back to my comments about Data being the ONLY one who did it, even though everyone on the bridge saw the same thing he did. He was "new" to his emotions; they weren't.
Pretty near the beginning of the story when they are being briefed on the situation about the Romulus sun about to explode, the President of the Federation says "Holy F-word S-word" (the actual words, not what I wrote). And I have to admit, it really put a bad taste in my mouth.
No, I'm not opposed to profanity. I enjoy plenty of movies and TV shows with profanity. This just struck me as this novel only using this language because the show did. And it just didn't feel like Trek. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but it definitely "took me out of the story".
Another minor complaint...
Raffi is the one presenting the briefing about Romulus(and Picard does not actually know her yet). And immediately, at the very start of the briefing (before they have actually heard much of anything) Picard is whispering to someone how much he likes her and asking what her name was again. Now, I know the reason for this is they are setting up why he would pick her to be his first officer. But it just felt...silly...that he was expressing SO much interest in her immediately (again, at the start of the briefing before he has actually heard her say much at all) rather than after it was over.
So while I admit that is a minor complaint, I just hope the book isn't going to be full of things like that.
The swearing doesn't feel right in the show either. Admiral "Hubris" remains one of the most absurd scenes in the show thus far. Everyone hates Picard for no legitimate reason and doesn't seem to be interested in treating him with an ounce of respect like someone who saved the Federation on several occasions and had a distinguished career, so I probably shouldn't be surprised that they are swearing for no reason at all, but I am.
That instant familiarity is also jarring, and all over the place. The way he instantly recognizes Seven of Nine in the latest episode is really weird, even as the most plausible characters to be pre-familiar with each other. I can easily imagine when Voyager got back from the Delta quadrant, Picard was asked to talk with Seven to help her since he was a drone himself for a while. Maybe the next episode will establish that history, but that remains to be seen. However it is sign of bad writing and you can see it in a lot of modern writing, whatever form it takes.
Pretty near the beginning of the story when they are being briefed on the situation about the Romulus sun about to explode, the President of the Federation says "Holy F-word S-word" (the actual words, not what I wrote). And I have to admit, it really put a bad taste in my mouth.
No, I'm not opposed to profanity. I enjoy plenty of movies and TV shows with profanity. This just struck me as this novel only using this language because the show did. And it just didn't feel like Trek. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but it definitely "took me out of the story".
Another minor complaint...
Raffi is the one presenting the briefing about Romulus(and Picard does not actually know her yet). And immediately, at the very start of the briefing (before they have actually heard much of anything) Picard is whispering to someone how much he likes her and asking what her name was again. Now, I know the reason for this is they are setting up why he would pick her to be his first officer. But it just felt...silly...that he was expressing SO much interest in her immediately (again, at the start of the briefing before he has actually heard her say much at all) rather than after it was over.
So while I admit that is a minor complaint, I just hope the book isn't going to be full of things like that.
The swearing doesn't feel right in the show either. Admiral "Hubris" remains one of the most absurd scenes in the show thus far. Everyone hates Picard for no legitimate reason and doesn't seem to be interested in treating him with an ounce of respect like someone who saved the Federation on several occasions and had a distinguished career, so I probably shouldn't be surprised that they are swearing for no reason at all, but I am.
That instant familiarity is also jarring, and all over the place. The way he instantly recognizes Seven of Nine in the latest episode is really weird, even as the most plausible characters to be pre-familiar with each other. I can easily imagine when Voyager got back from the Delta quadrant, Picard was asked to talk with Seven to help her since he was a drone himself for a while. Maybe the next episode will establish that history, but that remains to be seen. However it is sign of bad writing and you can see it in a lot of modern writing, whatever form it takes.
He resigned in a huff. A day or two before he put the Federation and Starfleet on blast on galactic tv. Of course they’d Be mad at him.
But its not the first time the admiralty disrespected him. In First Contact they were content to let him monitor the neutral zone while the Borg invaded earth.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
He resigned in a huff. A day or two before he put the Federation and Starfleet on blast on galactic tv.
That interview was years later.
**edit**
I think I understand what you meant now. The "before" you are referring to is his meeting with the admiral, not his resignation, right?
Yes a day or two before asking to be reinstated and given a ship he put them on blast on tv.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Pretty near the beginning of the story when they are being briefed on the situation about the Romulus sun about to explode, the President of the Federation says "Holy F-word S-word" (the actual words, not what I wrote). And I have to admit, it really put a bad taste in my mouth.
No, I'm not opposed to profanity. I enjoy plenty of movies and TV shows with profanity. This just struck me as this novel only using this language because the show did. And it just didn't feel like Trek. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but it definitely "took me out of the story".
Another minor complaint...
Raffi is the one presenting the briefing about Romulus(and Picard does not actually know her yet). And immediately, at the very start of the briefing (before they have actually heard much of anything) Picard is whispering to someone how much he likes her and asking what her name was again. Now, I know the reason for this is they are setting up why he would pick her to be his first officer. But it just felt...silly...that he was expressing SO much interest in her immediately (again, at the start of the briefing before he has actually heard her say much at all) rather than after it was over.
So while I admit that is a minor complaint, I just hope the book isn't going to be full of things like that.
The swearing doesn't feel right in the show either. Admiral "Hubris" remains one of the most absurd scenes in the show thus far. Everyone hates Picard for no legitimate reason and doesn't seem to be interested in treating him with an ounce of respect like someone who saved the Federation on several occasions and had a distinguished career, so I probably shouldn't be surprised that they are swearing for no reason at all, but I am.
That instant familiarity is also jarring, and all over the place. The way he instantly recognizes Seven of Nine in the latest episode is really weird, even as the most plausible characters to be pre-familiar with each other. I can easily imagine when Voyager got back from the Delta quadrant, Picard was asked to talk with Seven to help her since he was a drone himself for a while. Maybe the next episode will establish that history, but that remains to be seen. However it is sign of bad writing and you can see it in a lot of modern writing, whatever form it takes.
He resigned in a huff. A day or two before he put the Federation and Starfleet on blast on galactic tv. Of course they’d Be mad at him.
But its not the first time the admiralty disrespected him. In First Contact they were content to let him monitor the neutral zone while the Borg invaded earth.
I think its rather hyperbolic to describe the interview as blasting. Its 14 years after the events. No one cares anymore. Any public backlash from the decision happened a long time ago.
And, if I remember right, he was explicitly told there would not be questions on the subject which is why he agreed to the interview, but the reporter did not respect that. That tells me that 'mainstream' media hasn't changed in 400 years so no one really cares what they have to say when they will be known, as they are now, to want to push their agenda or outright lie.
Also, resigning in a huff is silly to say. Resignation is the utmost, absolutely professional thing to do in such a situation. Why they fired Raffi too I still don't understand, nor why she blames Picard, or why she hasn't done anything else with her life in the intervening time, but that probably isn't exactly relevant for the scene in question.
Now, First Contact was contrived but at least plausible, because they has no real understanding of how Picard would react to another encounter with the Borg. Being assimilated had lasting effects on him so they were uncertain if he would be a liability or not. Also it wasn't disrespectful, it was distrustful. I don't recall them swearing at him with obvious hostility, they simply gave him busywork orders to keep him out of the battle.
Even if I'm wrong on all things above, there is still no call for Admiral 'Hubris' to unprofessionally overreact, be so excessively hostile to him, and treat Picard with such disrespect, not just as a former Starfleet officer with a distinguished career, but as a human being.
Even if I'm wrong on all things above, there is still no call for Admiral 'Hubris' to unprofessionally overreact, be so excessively hostile to him, and treat Picard with such disrespect, not just as a former Starfleet officer with a distinguished career, but as a human being.
He said what Starfleet did was "downright criminal". That's a quite worse accusation then "TRIBBLE hybris". And in fact, accusing the organization you left of criminal actions and then coming back and ask to be reinstated, possibly as Admiral, but Captain would be okay, too, and given a ship and crew for a special mission is indeed hybris. There is no way around it.
The Admiral wasn't "diplomatic". But not being diplomatic is not the same as being unprofessional.
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> @foxrockssocks said: > (Quote) > > I think its rather hyperbolic to describe the interview as blasting. Its 14 years after the events. No one cares anymore. Any public backlash from the decision happened a long time ago. > > And, if I remember right, he was explicitly told there would not be questions on the subject which is why he agreed to the interview, but the reporter did not respect that. That tells me that 'mainstream' media hasn't changed in 400 years so no one really cares what they have to say when they will be known, as they are now, to want to push their agenda or outright lie. > > Also, resigning in a huff is silly to say. Resignation is the utmost, absolutely professional thing to do in such a situation. Why they fired Raffi too I still don't understand, nor why she blames Picard, or why she hasn't done anything else with her life in the intervening time, but that probably isn't exactly relevant for the scene in question. > > Now, First Contact was contrived but at least plausible, because they has no real understanding of how Picard would react to another encounter with the Borg. Being assimilated had lasting effects on him so they were uncertain if he would be a liability or not. Also it wasn't disrespectful, it was distrustful. I don't recall them swearing at him with obvious hostility, they simply gave him busywork orders to keep him out of the battle. > > Even if I'm wrong on all things above, there is still no call for Admiral 'Hubris' to unprofessionally overreact, be so excessively hostile to him, and treat Picard with such disrespect, not just as a former Starfleet officer with a distinguished career, but as a human being.
You are making a lot of assumptions. How do you know that no one cares about the Mars attack 14 years later? How do you know that no one cares what the media has to say?
No one would know how Picard would act when he encounters the Borg again? Going off memory Picard has encountered the Borg at least twice after Best of Both Worlds.
One of the most respected Starfleet captains said on galactic tv “Starfleet is no longer starfleet and it betrayed its values” (paraphrased and off the top of my head). Why would you think that a day or two later they’d welcome him with open arms?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I think that with both ST: Discovery and ST: Picard the cursing is way over the top. I would not have been allowed to watch either show when I was a kid. The other shows had "Dammit, Jim..." or "What the hell..." once or twice in each episode. However, it was not a "look, I'm cursing..." situations like it is with Discovery and Picard. I would not let a kid watch either show; I definitely would not watch it with a parent. This whole "it's is geared toward being modern or adult" line defeats G. Roddenberry's original premise. I have heard in documentaries and fan conventions that their grandparents and parents considered Star Trek to be more of a show the whole family could watch. You could find subtle meanings that could, and did, inspire people to go on to invent technology or inspire them in some other way. Discovery, in my opinion, does not come close. I do not believe that Discovery or Picard to be "family shows."
As for Seven of Nine, I can imagine that Picard would recognize her on the spot without having met her in person. Given Voyager's situation, Picard was most likely briefed. Also, with his connection to the Borg, he most likely would keep himself apprised on anything Starfleet would have on the Borg including Seven.
All this frelling whining about fracking curses! Who the felgercarb cares about that? Only Americans, I think. Would you please mind that there are also German viewers present that get easily bored by such nonsense and feel like they are talking to some alien species, and are disappointed because they always thought aliens would be more interesting than that?
Just realize, when a child is hearing the words "fracking Hybris", it will likely ask: What's hybris? The other word it almost certainly already knows (even though it might have no idea what the actual act the word originally describes is or at least what it entails. But it gets the meaning).
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Comments
The Bounty whale incursion was probably the least paradox potential of the bunch, the whales were being released to the wild and would have been killed by that whaler if Kirk and company had not stopped them, and (at least according to the novelization) Dr. Gillian Taylor would have died in an accident in a year or two as well, without any scientific breakthroughs or descendants to suddenly cease to exist when she went to the future with them.
Something that is a fairly standard trope in time travel stories is that paradox tends to get worse from repeated incursions to the same spot in the timeline instead of better. They had a very humorous illustration of that trope in an episode of Legends of Tomorrow ("Legends of To-Meow-Meow") where they try over and over to fix distortions from a single change and it just keeps getting worse.
The time cops or whatever in Trek probably only intervene when there is a major problem if they don't intervene, in order to prevent paradox from spreading like a run in a nylon stocking from too much meddling. A lets not forget, they act to save their own timeline, and that means that a lot of the time travel in their past is a necessary part of their own history and cannot be messed with safely.
My opinion of Temporal Police is that they are more concerned with protecting themselves than protecting the timeline. If a temporal change has a risk of erasing them from existence, then they would be involved. However, if the result is relatively minor, then they would not care.
Every time travel event should have some ripple effect on the timeline. However, bumping into someone in the 1930s would have little effect compared to destroying millions of people that shouldn't have. Star Trek has been very lazy with their save the timeline episodes and movies.
And heck, the new ship in Picard seems to have a gigantic multi-purpose room as bridge, with holographic controls and holodeck emitters everywhere so an Emergency Medical and Emergency Navigator Hologram can serve its Captain. It doesn't really look like something we've seen often.
I would say they're probably only trying to protect the Timeline from changes made by people from their own time period or later, so they wouldn't meddle with things like Kirk saving whales or the Borg stopping First Contact because those incursions were already resolved hundreds of years before their organization existed.
I cannot say much about the Picard show since all I have seen of it so far are the trailers and a few YouTube clips, but the DSC style is firmly based in the "realistic" style that has dominated Hollywood sci-fi since the 1970s. And no, I am not saying that is a bad thing, it just is what it is, and that faintly art-deco repeating geometry style does look rather impressive even after everyone has been doing variants of it for quite a while now.
As for the controls themselves, we have touchscreen controls just like the ones on Discovery today (in fact some of the panels appear to be the same table-sized Microsoft touch stations they used in shows like the new Hawaii Five-0, just tipped in "drawing board" configuration and set in the consoles instead of standing in flat table mode by itself), there is nothing particularly futuristic about them, they are more cutting edge modern than anything else.
A little known aspect of making things futuristic is that they have to have some element of fantasy about them, a bit of playful whimsy that makes people look twice to understand what they are seeing. DSC has little or nothing of that, it is impressive, often beautiful in a regular geometric sort of way, but any of the magic it might have to it is firmly locked down by the attempt at looking practical (which it really isn't, but human engineering principles are another matter entirely).
Futuristic design often has a light and airy feel to it, and is best achieved using organic spiral curves instead of regular geometric ones and golden ratio proportions along with playfully odd angles and subtly asymmetric elements. DSC design style tends to be heavy, regular and devoid of the unexpected (though it is shiny and pretty in its own machinelike way). Futuristic is actually a rather hard style to pull off on a set, and people tend to get used to it so it looses some of the magic fairly soon (some even start calling it silly looking, like what has happened to TOS). In the real world you mostly see it in in the newer fancy highway bridge designs nowadays:
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Every planet has stubborn northern folk apparently. As a stubborn Lancashire lad, I approve.
I need to watch the episode again. Nothing jumped out of my head when i saw her ship. Nothing that triggered a "ah-ha, it is so & so ship"
Can't say it looked familiar.
Rios has really a lot of holograms of himself around... Some speculate he might be a hologram himself. Seems a bit of a stretch, the injury scene in the previous episode doesn't really make sense. On the other hand - how or where would have injured himself in Earth orbit? Did he get into a fight with some Nausicaans? Or was he having some holodeck fun?
I would have to all the romulan stuff seen in the episodes: weapons, costumes, hair cuts etc. Even 1000 zen for a costume bound to character, I would buy it for all my rom toons.
Joanne Linville's Romulan commander character stressed that the Romulans were poor but proud, and along with the fact that they were based on the ancient Romans and their tendency to build things to last, the chances are good that they would take an old ship and keep making incremental updates to keep it reasonably current.
Also, those ships were slow-firing but their main gun (that torpedo) hit like Godzilla.
https://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Picard-Last-Best/dp/B07VX824KJ/
Pretty near the beginning of the story when they are being briefed on the situation about the Romulus sun about to explode, the President of the Federation says "Holy F-word S-word" (the actual words, not what I wrote). And I have to admit, it really put a bad taste in my mouth.
No, I'm not opposed to profanity. I enjoy plenty of movies and TV shows with profanity. This just struck me as this novel only using this language because the show did. And it just didn't feel like Trek. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but it definitely "took me out of the story".
Another minor complaint...
So while I admit that is a minor complaint, I just hope the book isn't going to be full of things like that.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I actually don't have a problem with using swears in response to getting extremely bad news about a Romulan sun about to explode since we have Data in Generations doing the same thing when they are about to crash into the planet. Although, it would be interesting to have a science fiction novel or show where people self-censor themselves so much that the actual swears become F-word and S-word with the actual swears never being used.
Did the novel actually say that the Romulus sun was about to explode or was it a Romulan star since the Star Trek 2009 comics state that it was Hobus which is 500 light years away from Romulus.
You know, I'm actually really happy you brought up that Data example because it helped me form my thoughts on this better than I could earlier. Think about that situation: everyone on the bridge was probably crapping their pants, so why was Data the ONLY one who cursed like that? Well, aside from the obvious RL answers about comedy, the "real" answer is that Data had just started using his emotion chip and was pretty "new" at the whole thing. The rest of the crew were professionals and knew how to control their emotions even under dire circumstances. So I guess that's why it felt so strange to have the Federation President say that. EVERYONE was probably thinking it, but you kind of expect people in high positions of government and the military to have more self control (obvious RL commander in chief jokes aside). At least, in Trek you do. Or have, up to this point.
Sorry I don't recall that detail. If it's referenced again I'll try to pay closer attention.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Personally, I don't believe it matters how professional someone is, there is always some instance where they will swear. If they don't swear and/or scream in certain dire situations, then there is something wrong with them. Of course, there is a huge difference between swearing in private and swearing in public.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
> (Quote)
>
> Personally, I don't believe it matters how professional someone is, there is always some instance where they will swear. If they don't swear and/or scream in certain dire situations, then there is something wrong with them. Of course, there is a huge difference between swearing in private and swearing in public.
I agree. But that also goes back to my comments about Data being the ONLY one who did it, even though everyone on the bridge saw the same thing he did. He was "new" to his emotions; they weren't.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The swearing doesn't feel right in the show either. Admiral "Hubris" remains one of the most absurd scenes in the show thus far. Everyone hates Picard for no legitimate reason and doesn't seem to be interested in treating him with an ounce of respect like someone who saved the Federation on several occasions and had a distinguished career, so I probably shouldn't be surprised that they are swearing for no reason at all, but I am.
That instant familiarity is also jarring, and all over the place. The way he instantly recognizes Seven of Nine in the latest episode is really weird, even as the most plausible characters to be pre-familiar with each other. I can easily imagine when Voyager got back from the Delta quadrant, Picard was asked to talk with Seven to help her since he was a drone himself for a while. Maybe the next episode will establish that history, but that remains to be seen. However it is sign of bad writing and you can see it in a lot of modern writing, whatever form it takes.
He resigned in a huff. A day or two before he put the Federation and Starfleet on blast on galactic tv. Of course they’d Be mad at him.
But its not the first time the admiralty disrespected him. In First Contact they were content to let him monitor the neutral zone while the Borg invaded earth.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
That interview was years later.
**edit**
I think I understand what you meant now. The "before" you are referring to is his meeting with the admiral, not his resignation, right?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Yes a day or two before asking to be reinstated and given a ship he put them on blast on tv.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I think its rather hyperbolic to describe the interview as blasting. Its 14 years after the events. No one cares anymore. Any public backlash from the decision happened a long time ago.
And, if I remember right, he was explicitly told there would not be questions on the subject which is why he agreed to the interview, but the reporter did not respect that. That tells me that 'mainstream' media hasn't changed in 400 years so no one really cares what they have to say when they will be known, as they are now, to want to push their agenda or outright lie.
Also, resigning in a huff is silly to say. Resignation is the utmost, absolutely professional thing to do in such a situation. Why they fired Raffi too I still don't understand, nor why she blames Picard, or why she hasn't done anything else with her life in the intervening time, but that probably isn't exactly relevant for the scene in question.
Now, First Contact was contrived but at least plausible, because they has no real understanding of how Picard would react to another encounter with the Borg. Being assimilated had lasting effects on him so they were uncertain if he would be a liability or not. Also it wasn't disrespectful, it was distrustful. I don't recall them swearing at him with obvious hostility, they simply gave him busywork orders to keep him out of the battle.
Even if I'm wrong on all things above, there is still no call for Admiral 'Hubris' to unprofessionally overreact, be so excessively hostile to him, and treat Picard with such disrespect, not just as a former Starfleet officer with a distinguished career, but as a human being.
He said what Starfleet did was "downright criminal". That's a quite worse accusation then "TRIBBLE hybris". And in fact, accusing the organization you left of criminal actions and then coming back and ask to be reinstated, possibly as Admiral, but Captain would be okay, too, and given a ship and crew for a special mission is indeed hybris. There is no way around it.
The Admiral wasn't "diplomatic". But not being diplomatic is not the same as being unprofessional.
> (Quote)
>
> I think its rather hyperbolic to describe the interview as blasting. Its 14 years after the events. No one cares anymore. Any public backlash from the decision happened a long time ago.
>
> And, if I remember right, he was explicitly told there would not be questions on the subject which is why he agreed to the interview, but the reporter did not respect that. That tells me that 'mainstream' media hasn't changed in 400 years so no one really cares what they have to say when they will be known, as they are now, to want to push their agenda or outright lie.
>
> Also, resigning in a huff is silly to say. Resignation is the utmost, absolutely professional thing to do in such a situation. Why they fired Raffi too I still don't understand, nor why she blames Picard, or why she hasn't done anything else with her life in the intervening time, but that probably isn't exactly relevant for the scene in question.
>
> Now, First Contact was contrived but at least plausible, because they has no real understanding of how Picard would react to another encounter with the Borg. Being assimilated had lasting effects on him so they were uncertain if he would be a liability or not. Also it wasn't disrespectful, it was distrustful. I don't recall them swearing at him with obvious hostility, they simply gave him busywork orders to keep him out of the battle.
>
> Even if I'm wrong on all things above, there is still no call for Admiral 'Hubris' to unprofessionally overreact, be so excessively hostile to him, and treat Picard with such disrespect, not just as a former Starfleet officer with a distinguished career, but as a human being.
You are making a lot of assumptions. How do you know that no one cares about the Mars attack 14 years later? How do you know that no one cares what the media has to say?
No one would know how Picard would act when he encounters the Borg again? Going off memory Picard has encountered the Borg at least twice after Best of Both Worlds.
One of the most respected Starfleet captains said on galactic tv “Starfleet is no longer starfleet and it betrayed its values” (paraphrased and off the top of my head). Why would you think that a day or two later they’d welcome him with open arms?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
As for Seven of Nine, I can imagine that Picard would recognize her on the spot without having met her in person. Given Voyager's situation, Picard was most likely briefed. Also, with his connection to the Borg, he most likely would keep himself apprised on anything Starfleet would have on the Borg including Seven.
Just realize, when a child is hearing the words "fracking Hybris", it will likely ask: What's hybris? The other word it almost certainly already knows (even though it might have no idea what the actual act the word originally describes is or at least what it entails. But it gets the meaning).