well, given the character doesn't have a major role in STO, for the moment they can still get away with just doing alterations - any more like this though, and they may as well just bite the bullet and officially make it an alternate timeline (which it already is - they just haven't come out and said it)
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
well, given the character doesn't have a major role in STO, for the moment they can still get away with just doing alterations - any more like this though, and they may as well just bite the bullet and officially make it an alternate timeline (which it already is - they just haven't come out and said it)
True, it's only a piddly little cameo but it's so far the biggest alteration. You wouldn't know that's meant to be Data talking to Sela unless you read up on it and we only visit Mars once a year anyway even if you don't write a "in ten years they managed to fix it" sort of thing.
Ouch! Poor Icheb. I did wonder whether he’s be referenced in the show at some point, but instead we got that.
I wonder how Admiral Janeway would react, and also whether any other of the VOY crew are members of that vigilante faction.
Not expecting to see Seven again either, at least not until the final anyway. Seems everyone was right about our doctor-scientist too. I wonder what she’s been shown.
Ouch! Poor Icheb. I did wonder whether he’s be referenced in the show at some point, but instead we got that.
I wonder how Admiral Janeway would react, and also whether any other of the VOY crew are members of that vigilante faction.
Not expecting to see Seven again either, at least not until the final anyway. Seems everyone was right about our doctor-scientist too. I wonder what she’s been shown.
well, all the ex-maquis were vigilantes before, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were involved. and it be very ooc for janeway to be anything besides very angry. she was very protective of her crew and Iched was part of crew.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Nooooooooooo, Icheb! I like that his death drives her darkness. But in terms of logistics, couldn't she have saved his life? It was just the eye so far, or was there more they took out of him that he wouldn't have survived?
Nooooooooooo, Icheb! I like that his death drives her darkness. But in terms of logistics, couldn't she have saved his life? It was just the eye so far, or was there more they took out of him that he wouldn't have survived?
I had the same thought. His injuries must have been fatal, otherwise she simply murdered him(and we know that wasn't their intention). However the fact that we both had this thought means they should have made it more clear that he couldn't have survived.
> @thegrandnagus1 said: > (Quote) > > I had the same thought. His injuries must have been fatal, otherwise she simply murdered him(and we know that wasn't their intention). However the fact that we both had this thought means they should have made it more clear that he couldn't have survived.
We may not have seen everything that they pulled out.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Talking is not the same thing as whining. By your "definition", your own post would be "whining". But it's not, because your "definition" is wrong.
Who the felgercarb cares about that?
People who are talking about it, obviously. If you don't, that's cool.
Like I said in an earlier post, I'm not opposed to profanity in TV shows/movies in general. And I don't mind it in Trek either, as long as it's not just for shock value.
Data cursing when seeing the ship about to crash with his emotion chip turned on seems "right" to ME. An Admiral cursing in "private" (1 on 1) with a former admiral she thinks betrayed Starfleet also seems "right" to ME(others are free to disagree). Tilly saying the F-word because she thinks something is "cool" seems unprofessional and like the writers just wanted to say the "F" word (again, to ME; others are free to disagree). So to ME it's completely dependent on the context.
That said, if this isn't an issue you care about, that's cool. No one will force you to talk about it. But don't act like just because something doesn't matter to you that other people are doing anything wrong by talking about it.
I'm european too, and I don't understand (but I accept) why these words are a problem; the Roddenberry's utopy was a fairytail vision; Humanity will stay the same even in 2,3,4 centuries only technologies evolve. Sumerians (4500 bc) had also their "f" words.
These words will be still used in the future, I have no doubt about this. In tv shows, these words make the characters human as we are in rl. after all, we are not robots; we have weaknesses, impulsivity. This is exactly how Tilly was; a human female; that's all.
we can improve, but not fundamentally change.
Some people like me grew up watching Star Trek in one form or another as kids. It has always been a pretty kid friendly show, not just for the lack of swearing and extreme violence, but for the positive outlook on the future. Some of those people went on to invent things, or go into scientific fields, inspired by the show that many of us can't imagine living without today.
NuTrek is none of that, unfortunately. It isn't inspiring, its dire, dreadful. That's fine if you like it, but for myself, its not Star Trek at all. A mirror universe version of it maybe, but it lacks the heart and soul of what people love in Star Trek. I hope Picard changes for the positive, but I won't hold my breath.
The needless swearing is part of that, not just because it is unnecessary, but because it feels forced, jammed into the script to set a certain tone. There are times and places we've all dropped F-bombs but most of the ones I see are just forced and unnatural.
Frankly I don't understand why Picard is called Star Trek. If it weren't for the names of various things and people, what is there to make it recognizable as Star Trek? It could be its own thing and stand on its own, but the brand Star Trek is trying to draw in fans of Trek, only to disappoint many.
> @thegrandnagus1 said:
> (Quote)
>
> I had the same thought. His injuries must have been fatal, otherwise she simply murdered him(and we know that wasn't their intention). However the fact that we both had this thought means they should have made it more clear that he couldn't have survived.
We may not have seen everything that they pulled out.
Oh yes, I agree. But the point is, he should have looked (to us, the audience) like there was no way he could survive. That would have left no question why she killed him...unless the writers actually WANTED us to wonder whether she should have killed him or not. I guess that is also possible.
Yeah, I was mulling it over the whole episode. I think the best moment for clarity about Icheb's sure-fatality pre-Seven would have been in dialogue when Seven was spilling the truth about Icheb at the climax.
Oh, and I loved the scenes between Seven and Picard. Especially that Borg experience trade-off at the end. So good. And it was so much fun having Seven on screen again. I liked that Voyager musical note at her beam out too.
Starfleet seems to be the shadow of what it has been, and it is interesting. the end of this fanciful universal imperialism is a really a good thing; it will add more depth to the Star trek universe.
For now, i like how the characters are written, even the naive Elnor.
Pirate Picard, that was so good and funny. Badass Seven, wow just awesome; i hope that we will see her again in the show.
Icheb's death is really sad; he was 1 of my favorite character in Voyager. But, I like how this moment is written, it is just simple, no endless blabla before the death. Seven just does what she needs to do and that's it: perfect.
Talking is not the same thing as whining. By your "definition", your own post would be "whining". But it's not, because your "definition" is wrong.
Who the felgercarb cares about that?
People who are talking about it, obviously. If you don't, that's cool.
Like I said in an earlier post, I'm not opposed to profanity in TV shows/movies in general. And I don't mind it in Trek either, as long as it's not just for shock value.
Data cursing when seeing the ship about to crash with his emotion chip turned on seems "right" to ME. An Admiral cursing in "private" (1 on 1) with a former admiral she thinks betrayed Starfleet also seems "right" to ME(others are free to disagree). Tilly saying the F-word because she thinks something is "cool" seems unprofessional and like the writers just wanted to say the "F" word (again, to ME; others are free to disagree). So to ME it's completely dependent on the context.
That said, if this isn't an issue you care about, that's cool. No one will force you to talk about it. But don't act like just because something doesn't matter to you that other people are doing anything wrong by talking about it.
I'm european too, and I don't understand (but I accept) why these words are a problem; the Roddenberry's utopy was a fairytail vision; Humanity will stay the same even in 2,3,4 centuries only technologies evolve. Sumerians (4500 bc) had also their "f" words.
These words will be still used in the future, I have no doubt about this. In tv shows, these words make the characters human as we are in rl. after all, we are not robots; we have weaknesses, impulsivity. This is exactly how Tilly was; a human female; that's all.
we can improve, but not fundamentally change.
Some people like me grew up watching Star Trek in one form or another as kids. It has always been a pretty kid friendly show, not just for the lack of swearing and extreme violence, but for the positive outlook on the future. Some of those people went on to invent things, or go into scientific fields, inspired by the show that many of us can't imagine living without today.
NuTrek is none of that, unfortunately. It isn't inspiring, its dire, dreadful. That's fine if you like it, but for myself, its not Star Trek at all. A mirror universe version of it maybe, but it lacks the heart and soul of what people love in Star Trek. I hope Picard changes for the positive, but I won't hold my breath.
The needless swearing is part of that, not just because it is unnecessary, but because it feels forced, jammed into the script to set a certain tone. There are times and places we've all dropped F-bombs but most of the ones I see are just forced and unnatural.
Frankly I don't understand why Picard is called Star Trek. If it weren't for the names of various things and people, what is there to make it recognizable as Star Trek? It could be its own thing and stand on its own, but the brand Star Trek is trying to draw in fans of Trek, only to disappoint many.
I grew up also with Star Trek, but things evolve, we are now in 2020, no need to watch the past with nostalgia.
Kids in 2020 are not like my generation (born in 1974) and maybe yours; they are less naive; they have access to a lot of stuff in internet; they can see during the News on tv, the violent reality. We didn't have all of that.
My nephew started to play at violent games when he was 11 years old (but he was accompanied by an adult), he likes the Mandalorian, and other tv shows. he is sane, and even too kind.
The new star trek tv shows are not created for the old fans of this franchise, but for the new fans and to attract newcomers in this universe.
> @sennahcherib said: > The new star trek tv shows are not created for the old fans of this franchise, but for the new fans and to attract newcomers in this universe.
It shouldn't be "either, or", it should be both. That said, I think you are wrong anyway. I think their INTENT is to please both groups, regardless of whether it does or not.
well, given the character doesn't have a major role in STO, for the moment they can still get away with just doing alterations - any more like this though, and they may as well just bite the bullet and officially make it an alternate timeline (which it already is - they just haven't come out and said it)
Tbh his in-game model doesn't even look like him. Obviously they probably didn't pay to use the actor's likeness, but even beyond that his implant is completely wrong.
> @sennahcherib said:
> The new star trek tv shows are not created for the old fans of this franchise, but for the new fans and to attract newcomers in this universe.
It shouldn't be "either, or", it should be both. That said, I think you are wrong anyway. I think their INTENT is to please both groups, regardless of whether it does or not.
well only Kurtzman knows the truth, but at least 1 thing is sure, he wants to move away from the old star trek stuff; is it good or not i don't know, but i personally like the new stuff, because it is not tng nor voyager; and even discovery.
if he wants to move away from the old trek stuff having a series set around the same time as ST:TOS is a strange way to do it. Picard though is a good idea in that direction, use the old as a bridge to set up a new era and make your shows set in that era
My suspicions about Jurati were dead on, something wasn't right about her since Oh and then the cut away to another scene, and then she just shows up and deals with the last guard. Now she's gone and murdered Bruce Maddox, what she said to Bruce was interesting. I'm even more convinced she is operating besides the Zhat Vash as an operative or as the leader of the operation, a deep cover operative who has been part of the entire sequence of events (this has been my suspicion for some time now).
The transporter thing was even more silly, like how is working with Bruce Maddox on something so complicated as bionoids less an issue than dealing with a transporter console, which is sigificantly more simple to deal with and yet she doesn't know how to operate it?
Shame about Icheb's passing, but then there were four other former Borg who were kidnapped, including Seven and she was the only one to get free. I thought perhaps there would be a little more on Icheb since starting his new life in another part of the galaxy.
We might see flashbacks of Icheb one day to fill in some of the gaps, including life onboard the USS Coleman. I'm wondering if Short Treks would fill in the missing gaps or somewhere in season 2 if Seven survived her revenge spree?
Now all that's left is to put the pieces together. Still i don't quite understand the Zhat Vash's motivations at this point, they want to destroy all artificial and synthetic life out there and yet they have an amoral gang leader on Freecloud who has her people extract Borg parts without putting the former drones to sleep and without any type of anaesthetics, these are clearly meant for the Zhat Vash, and this artifact, former drones there as well? something isn't in the open yet aside from Soji's nature and the others as implied.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I think the thing with Jurati that's going to be curious and discussed is when she became affliated with the Zhat Vash, one could certainly make an argument that she'd been recruited by Commadore Oh, and thus was a recent recruit. but at the same time, I find it kinda doubtful. After reading the prequal novel "the last best hope" some things about Jurati where really standing out to me. She was a MEDICAL DOCTOR before coming to research AI, she met maddox and honestly in retrospect laid it on thick, noting she wanted to study with him, noted she considered him a genius, and this was RIGHT as the A500 (the synths at Mars) project was starting If I recall. I mean it's pretty obvious there was a back door installed on the A500s to allow someone to basicly make them go "murderbot" I do not think it's unreasonable to guess she installed the "Back door" her entire reason for ending up at Daystorm.
Whatever the case may be, she was engaged in an intimate relationship with Bruce Maddox, as such the woman is clearly solidly behind "the cause"
Nooooooooooo, Icheb! I like that his death drives her darkness. But in terms of logistics, couldn't she have saved his life? It was just the eye so far, or was there more they took out of him that he wouldn't have survived?
I had the same thought. His injuries must have been fatal, otherwise she simply murdered him(and we know that wasn't their intention). However the fact that we both had this thought means they should have made it more clear that he couldn't have survived.
I always thought it was heavily implied (and maybe even confirmed somewhere) that when a Borg has their implants removed to regain their original form, if one implant is visible and stand out like a sore thumb, then it's a vital component that can't be removed or modified without causing the xB's death.
Even when Icheb chose to give his cortical node to Seven, it was considered incredibly risky and possibly permanently weakening him, even with special circumstances and the Doctor's expertise.
So, getting the rest of his optical components carelessly and forcefully ripped off of his body would have most likely doomed him to an excruciating death from the start.
Talking is not the same thing as whining. By your "definition", your own post would be "whining". But it's not, because your "definition" is wrong.
Who the felgercarb cares about that?
People who are talking about it, obviously. If you don't, that's cool.
Like I said in an earlier post, I'm not opposed to profanity in TV shows/movies in general. And I don't mind it in Trek either, as long as it's not just for shock value.
Data cursing when seeing the ship about to crash with his emotion chip turned on seems "right" to ME. An Admiral cursing in "private" (1 on 1) with a former admiral she thinks betrayed Starfleet also seems "right" to ME(others are free to disagree). Tilly saying the F-word because she thinks something is "cool" seems unprofessional and like the writers just wanted to say the "F" word (again, to ME; others are free to disagree). So to ME it's completely dependent on the context.
That said, if this isn't an issue you care about, that's cool. No one will force you to talk about it. But don't act like just because something doesn't matter to you that other people are doing anything wrong by talking about it.
I'm european too, and I don't understand (but I accept) why these words are a problem; the Roddenberry's utopy was a fairytail vision; Humanity will stay the same even in 2,3,4 centuries only technologies evolve. Sumerians (4500 bc) had also their "f" words.
These words will be still used in the future, I have no doubt about this. In tv shows, these words make the characters human as we are in rl. after all, we are not robots; we have weaknesses, impulsivity. This is exactly how Tilly was; a human female; that's all.
we can improve, but not fundamentally change.
Some people like me grew up watching Star Trek in one form or another as kids. It has always been a pretty kid friendly show, not just for the lack of swearing and extreme violence, but for the positive outlook on the future. Some of those people went on to invent things, or go into scientific fields, inspired by the show that many of us can't imagine living without today.
NuTrek is none of that, unfortunately. It isn't inspiring, its dire, dreadful. That's fine if you like it, but for myself, its not Star Trek at all. A mirror universe version of it maybe, but it lacks the heart and soul of what people love in Star Trek. I hope Picard changes for the positive, but I won't hold my breath.
The needless swearing is part of that, not just because it is unnecessary, but because it feels forced, jammed into the script to set a certain tone. There are times and places we've all dropped F-bombs but most of the ones I see are just forced and unnatural.
Frankly I don't understand why Picard is called Star Trek. If it weren't for the names of various things and people, what is there to make it recognizable as Star Trek? It could be its own thing and stand on its own, but the brand Star Trek is trying to draw in fans of Trek, only to disappoint many.
I grew up also with Star Trek, but things evolve, we are now in 2020, no need to watch the past with nostalgia.
Kids in 2020 are not like my generation (born in 1974) and maybe yours; they are less naive; they have access to a lot of stuff in internet; they can see during the News on tv, the violent reality. We didn't have all of that.
My nephew started to play at violent games when he was 11 years old (but he was accompanied by an adult), he likes the Mandalorian, and other tv shows. he is sane, and even too kind.
The new star trek tv shows are not created for the old fans of this franchise, but for the new fans and to attract newcomers in this universe.
This isn't evolving, it is devolving. In no way is there anything positive from what Picard is showing us thus far.
And this is the problem, kids shouldn't be sheltered, but neither should they be shown endless murderporn and destruction and negativity. The news is a great example, rife with half truths and a lack of perspective, at the very basic level they virtually never tell you about good things going on in the world. Its just (fake numbers) 31 murders today, never the 523 happy new parents. There is actually a psychological syndrome that someone can develop from watching too much news and getting that skewed version of the world that makes them think its all terrible out there, called mean world syndrome.
Among that bad news and skewed perspective of the world, there was Star Trek, with its hopeful vision of the future. Balance is necessary, a reason to hope and strive for more, because no one wants their kids to turn out like the idiot millenials that unironically claim words are violence, and think the planet is dying. They don't even grasp the concept that we can go forward with new ideas and fix problems of the past because they've got no concept of a bright future.
There's nothing wrong that dark, gritty, violent stuff now and then. I have no problem with that in itself. My problem is that isn't the Star Trek brand. It would be like if Disney started releasing sequels to their movies where the princess gets kidnapped, brutally TRIBBLE and ends up prostituting herself to survive in some foreign country. That can still be a good movie in its own right, but that isn't the Disney brand.
Again, if this were set in the mirror universe, I wouldn't have a problem with these themes, because they are a temporary departure. One of the best episodes of Enterprise was when they did exactly that, the two parter where Empress Hoshi is crowned, but it was always clear it was not the prime universe, and that meant it was antithetical to the ideas Star Trek puts forth. Really, a game of thrones kind of miniseries in the mirror universe with people vying for power and playing Terran Empire politics could be fun, but it shouldn't be the main thrust of the IP.
disney movies aren't always sunshine and rainbows all the way through either...some of them are dark...like really, REALLY dark given they're supposed to be kid films - the lion king being a very good example of that
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
disney movies aren't always sunshine and rainbows all the way through either...some of them are dark...like really, REALLY dark given they're supposed to be kid films - the lion king being a very good example of that
Don't be a strawman. He didn't say Disney movies don't have any dark moments in them. He was saying that in general, Disney movies are fairly light/positive. And even the Lion King was, as a whole. Again, don't take what you know someone meant and try to pretend they meant something else. It's a lame tactic.
knock off the backseat moderating; you have already been banned once for it, and i don't know whose TRIBBLE you had to suck to get unbanned, but i will GLADLY see you banned again, and this time, i will make sure it is PERMANENT
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
knock off the backseat moderating; you have already been banned once for it, and i don't know whose TRIBBLE you had to suck to get unbanned, but i will GLADLY see you banned again, and this time, i will make sure it is PERMANENT
First, LOL. Second, that wasn't "backseat modding". Strawmaning has nothing to do with the forum rules(which is where the mods come in), but it is a lame debate tactic and I will call it out as such when I see it.
[..]
So, getting the rest of his optical components carelessly and forcefully ripped off of his body would have most likely doomed him to an excruciating death from the start.
I'm of the same opinion.
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
Nooooooooooo, Icheb! I like that his death drives her darkness. But in terms of logistics, couldn't she have saved his life? It was just the eye so far, or was there more they took out of him that he wouldn't have survived?
I had the same thought. His injuries must have been fatal, otherwise she simply murdered him(and we know that wasn't their intention). However the fact that we both had this thought means they should have made it more clear that he couldn't have survived.
I always thought it was heavily implied (and maybe even confirmed somewhere) that when a Borg has their implants removed to regain their original form, if one implant is visible and stand out like a sore thumb, then it's a vital component that can't be removed or modified without causing the xB's death.
Even when Icheb chose to give his cortical node to Seven, it was considered incredibly risky and possibly permanently weakening him, even with special circumstances and the Doctor's expertise.
So, getting the rest of his optical components carelessly and forcefully ripped off of his body would have most likely doomed him to an excruciating death from the start.
Nooooooooooo, Icheb! I like that his death drives her darkness. But in terms of logistics, couldn't she have saved his life? It was just the eye so far, or was there more they took out of him that he wouldn't have survived?
I had the same thought. His injuries must have been fatal, otherwise she simply murdered him(and we know that wasn't their intention). However the fact that we both had this thought means they should have made it more clear that he couldn't have survived.
I always thought it was heavily implied (and maybe even confirmed somewhere) that when a Borg has their implants removed to regain their original form, if one implant is visible and stand out like a sore thumb, then it's a vital component that can't be removed or modified without causing the xB's death.
Even when Icheb chose to give his cortical node to Seven, it was considered incredibly risky and possibly permanently weakening him, even with special circumstances and the Doctor's expertise.
So, getting the rest of his optical components carelessly and forcefully ripped off of his body would have most likely doomed him to an excruciating death from the start.
Seven and Icheb had their implants removed on Voyager in the Delta Quadrant so they didn't have the best resources for removing implants. So it might have been possible for Seven and Icheb to remove their visible implants when they came to the Alpha Quadrant, but decided not to for some reason. Then there is the benefit that certain implants provide.
So it is possible that Icheb's implants could have been safely removed with Federation technology, but Bjayzl didn't care and just wanted to rip them out as quickly and cheaply as possible.
Talking is not the same thing as whining. By your "definition", your own post would be "whining". But it's not, because your "definition" is wrong.
Who the felgercarb cares about that?
People who are talking about it, obviously. If you don't, that's cool.
Like I said in an earlier post, I'm not opposed to profanity in TV shows/movies in general. And I don't mind it in Trek either, as long as it's not just for shock value.
Data cursing when seeing the ship about to crash with his emotion chip turned on seems "right" to ME. An Admiral cursing in "private" (1 on 1) with a former admiral she thinks betrayed Starfleet also seems "right" to ME(others are free to disagree). Tilly saying the F-word because she thinks something is "cool" seems unprofessional and like the writers just wanted to say the "F" word (again, to ME; others are free to disagree). So to ME it's completely dependent on the context.
That said, if this isn't an issue you care about, that's cool. No one will force you to talk about it. But don't act like just because something doesn't matter to you that other people are doing anything wrong by talking about it.
I'm european too, and I don't understand (but I accept) why these words are a problem; the Roddenberry's utopy was a fairytail vision; Humanity will stay the same even in 2,3,4 centuries only technologies evolve. Sumerians (4500 bc) had also their "f" words.
These words will be still used in the future, I have no doubt about this. In tv shows, these words make the characters human as we are in rl. after all, we are not robots; we have weaknesses, impulsivity. This is exactly how Tilly was; a human female; that's all.
we can improve, but not fundamentally change.
Some people like me grew up watching Star Trek in one form or another as kids. It has always been a pretty kid friendly show, not just for the lack of swearing and extreme violence, but for the positive outlook on the future. Some of those people went on to invent things, or go into scientific fields, inspired by the show that many of us can't imagine living without today.
NuTrek is none of that, unfortunately. It isn't inspiring, its dire, dreadful. That's fine if you like it, but for myself, its not Star Trek at all. A mirror universe version of it maybe, but it lacks the heart and soul of what people love in Star Trek. I hope Picard changes for the positive, but I won't hold my breath.
The needless swearing is part of that, not just because it is unnecessary, but because it feels forced, jammed into the script to set a certain tone. There are times and places we've all dropped F-bombs but most of the ones I see are just forced and unnatural.
Frankly I don't understand why Picard is called Star Trek. If it weren't for the names of various things and people, what is there to make it recognizable as Star Trek? It could be its own thing and stand on its own, but the brand Star Trek is trying to draw in fans of Trek, only to disappoint many.
I grew up also with Star Trek, but things evolve, we are now in 2020, no need to watch the past with nostalgia.
Kids in 2020 are not like my generation (born in 1974) and maybe yours; they are less naive; they have access to a lot of stuff in internet; they can see during the News on tv, the violent reality. We didn't have all of that.
My nephew started to play at violent games when he was 11 years old (but he was accompanied by an adult), he likes the Mandalorian, and other tv shows. he is sane, and even too kind.
The new star trek tv shows are not created for the old fans of this franchise, but for the new fans and to attract newcomers in this universe.
That thing about "modern" viewers being so different from viewers from other times is nothing but an illusion. Every generation says that kind of thing, not just about TV but about society and other things as well. And despite "the problems of today are so worse than in the past", "the bomb/killer fog/the invasion/whatever is coming", "society is falling apart and violence will consume it", and even "modern viewers are different from viewers in the past", we are all still here and "modern viewers" are still capable of watching old movies and TV with their parents or whatever and understand what they see well enough.
Billy Joel wrote a song about the way that illusion crops up every generation, (called "We Didn't Start the Fire"), because he got tired of people talking like the present is always so much worse than the previous generation had it. The fact is, the entertainment industry moves in cycles and fads just as much as the clothing industry (and many others for that matter). Even more so in some ways.
TOS mostly bucked the industry trends of the time but all the rest pretty much followed them instead, which is how TNG ended up a "space procedural", following the general writing trends of shows like Hill Street Blues, LA Law, and St. Elsewhere but in a post-scarcity sci-fi setting where the peer pressure was against greed instead of in line with it for instance. If TNG would have stuck with its original Macross-like format then would have bucked the trends too which might have kept the following shows from settling into the prevailing trends of their times the way they did.
DSC and PIC are no different, they are firmly products of the current entertainment industry fads and fashion (to the point that DSC seems very generic in fact), and those trends cycle, it is not some inevitable "evolution" any more than skirt hem height is.
Comments
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
True, it's only a piddly little cameo but it's so far the biggest alteration. You wouldn't know that's meant to be Data talking to Sela unless you read up on it and we only visit Mars once a year anyway even if you don't write a "in ten years they managed to fix it" sort of thing.
I wonder how Admiral Janeway would react, and also whether any other of the VOY crew are members of that vigilante faction.
Not expecting to see Seven again either, at least not until the final anyway. Seems everyone was right about our doctor-scientist too. I wonder what she’s been shown.
https://awkwardzombie.com/comic/reason-for-the-treason
well, all the ex-maquis were vigilantes before, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were involved. and it be very ooc for janeway to be anything besides very angry. she was very protective of her crew and Iched was part of crew.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I had the same thought. His injuries must have been fatal, otherwise she simply murdered him(and we know that wasn't their intention). However the fact that we both had this thought means they should have made it more clear that he couldn't have survived.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
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> I had the same thought. His injuries must have been fatal, otherwise she simply murdered him(and we know that wasn't their intention). However the fact that we both had this thought means they should have made it more clear that he couldn't have survived.
We may not have seen everything that they pulled out.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Some people like me grew up watching Star Trek in one form or another as kids. It has always been a pretty kid friendly show, not just for the lack of swearing and extreme violence, but for the positive outlook on the future. Some of those people went on to invent things, or go into scientific fields, inspired by the show that many of us can't imagine living without today.
NuTrek is none of that, unfortunately. It isn't inspiring, its dire, dreadful. That's fine if you like it, but for myself, its not Star Trek at all. A mirror universe version of it maybe, but it lacks the heart and soul of what people love in Star Trek. I hope Picard changes for the positive, but I won't hold my breath.
The needless swearing is part of that, not just because it is unnecessary, but because it feels forced, jammed into the script to set a certain tone. There are times and places we've all dropped F-bombs but most of the ones I see are just forced and unnatural.
Frankly I don't understand why Picard is called Star Trek. If it weren't for the names of various things and people, what is there to make it recognizable as Star Trek? It could be its own thing and stand on its own, but the brand Star Trek is trying to draw in fans of Trek, only to disappoint many.
Oh yes, I agree. But the point is, he should have looked (to us, the audience) like there was no way he could survive. That would have left no question why she killed him...unless the writers actually WANTED us to wonder whether she should have killed him or not. I guess that is also possible.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Oh, and I loved the scenes between Seven and Picard. Especially that Borg experience trade-off at the end. So good. And it was so much fun having Seven on screen again. I liked that Voyager musical note at her beam out too.
For now, i like how the characters are written, even the naive Elnor.
Pirate Picard, that was so good and funny. Badass Seven, wow just awesome; i hope that we will see her again in the show.
Icheb's death is really sad; he was 1 of my favorite character in Voyager. But, I like how this moment is written, it is just simple, no endless blabla before the death. Seven just does what she needs to do and that's it: perfect.
I grew up also with Star Trek, but things evolve, we are now in 2020, no need to watch the past with nostalgia.
Kids in 2020 are not like my generation (born in 1974) and maybe yours; they are less naive; they have access to a lot of stuff in internet; they can see during the News on tv, the violent reality. We didn't have all of that.
My nephew started to play at violent games when he was 11 years old (but he was accompanied by an adult), he likes the Mandalorian, and other tv shows. he is sane, and even too kind.
The new star trek tv shows are not created for the old fans of this franchise, but for the new fans and to attract newcomers in this universe.
> The new star trek tv shows are not created for the old fans of this franchise, but for the new fans and to attract newcomers in this universe.
It shouldn't be "either, or", it should be both. That said, I think you are wrong anyway. I think their INTENT is to please both groups, regardless of whether it does or not.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Tbh his in-game model doesn't even look like him. Obviously they probably didn't pay to use the actor's likeness, but even beyond that his implant is completely wrong.
well only Kurtzman knows the truth, but at least 1 thing is sure, he wants to move away from the old star trek stuff; is it good or not i don't know, but i personally like the new stuff, because it is not tng nor voyager; and even discovery.
The transporter thing was even more silly, like how is working with Bruce Maddox on something so complicated as bionoids less an issue than dealing with a transporter console, which is sigificantly more simple to deal with and yet she doesn't know how to operate it?
Shame about Icheb's passing, but then there were four other former Borg who were kidnapped, including Seven and she was the only one to get free. I thought perhaps there would be a little more on Icheb since starting his new life in another part of the galaxy.
We might see flashbacks of Icheb one day to fill in some of the gaps, including life onboard the USS Coleman. I'm wondering if Short Treks would fill in the missing gaps or somewhere in season 2 if Seven survived her revenge spree?
Now all that's left is to put the pieces together. Still i don't quite understand the Zhat Vash's motivations at this point, they want to destroy all artificial and synthetic life out there and yet they have an amoral gang leader on Freecloud who has her people extract Borg parts without putting the former drones to sleep and without any type of anaesthetics, these are clearly meant for the Zhat Vash, and this artifact, former drones there as well? something isn't in the open yet aside from Soji's nature and the others as implied.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Whatever the case may be, she was engaged in an intimate relationship with Bruce Maddox, as such the woman is clearly solidly behind "the cause"
Even when Icheb chose to give his cortical node to Seven, it was considered incredibly risky and possibly permanently weakening him, even with special circumstances and the Doctor's expertise.
So, getting the rest of his optical components carelessly and forcefully ripped off of his body would have most likely doomed him to an excruciating death from the start.
This isn't evolving, it is devolving. In no way is there anything positive from what Picard is showing us thus far.
And this is the problem, kids shouldn't be sheltered, but neither should they be shown endless murderporn and destruction and negativity. The news is a great example, rife with half truths and a lack of perspective, at the very basic level they virtually never tell you about good things going on in the world. Its just (fake numbers) 31 murders today, never the 523 happy new parents. There is actually a psychological syndrome that someone can develop from watching too much news and getting that skewed version of the world that makes them think its all terrible out there, called mean world syndrome.
Among that bad news and skewed perspective of the world, there was Star Trek, with its hopeful vision of the future. Balance is necessary, a reason to hope and strive for more, because no one wants their kids to turn out like the idiot millenials that unironically claim words are violence, and think the planet is dying. They don't even grasp the concept that we can go forward with new ideas and fix problems of the past because they've got no concept of a bright future.
There's nothing wrong that dark, gritty, violent stuff now and then. I have no problem with that in itself. My problem is that isn't the Star Trek brand. It would be like if Disney started releasing sequels to their movies where the princess gets kidnapped, brutally TRIBBLE and ends up prostituting herself to survive in some foreign country. That can still be a good movie in its own right, but that isn't the Disney brand.
Again, if this were set in the mirror universe, I wouldn't have a problem with these themes, because they are a temporary departure. One of the best episodes of Enterprise was when they did exactly that, the two parter where Empress Hoshi is crowned, but it was always clear it was not the prime universe, and that meant it was antithetical to the ideas Star Trek puts forth. Really, a game of thrones kind of miniseries in the mirror universe with people vying for power and playing Terran Empire politics could be fun, but it shouldn't be the main thrust of the IP.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Don't be a strawman. He didn't say Disney movies don't have any dark moments in them. He was saying that in general, Disney movies are fairly light/positive. And even the Lion King was, as a whole. Again, don't take what you know someone meant and try to pretend they meant something else. It's a lame tactic.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
First, LOL. Second, that wasn't "backseat modding". Strawmaning has nothing to do with the forum rules(which is where the mods come in), but it is a lame debate tactic and I will call it out as such when I see it.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I'm of the same opinion.
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
That sounds reasonable enough.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Seven and Icheb had their implants removed on Voyager in the Delta Quadrant so they didn't have the best resources for removing implants. So it might have been possible for Seven and Icheb to remove their visible implants when they came to the Alpha Quadrant, but decided not to for some reason. Then there is the benefit that certain implants provide.
So it is possible that Icheb's implants could have been safely removed with Federation technology, but Bjayzl didn't care and just wanted to rip them out as quickly and cheaply as possible.
That thing about "modern" viewers being so different from viewers from other times is nothing but an illusion. Every generation says that kind of thing, not just about TV but about society and other things as well. And despite "the problems of today are so worse than in the past", "the bomb/killer fog/the invasion/whatever is coming", "society is falling apart and violence will consume it", and even "modern viewers are different from viewers in the past", we are all still here and "modern viewers" are still capable of watching old movies and TV with their parents or whatever and understand what they see well enough.
Billy Joel wrote a song about the way that illusion crops up every generation, (called "We Didn't Start the Fire"), because he got tired of people talking like the present is always so much worse than the previous generation had it. The fact is, the entertainment industry moves in cycles and fads just as much as the clothing industry (and many others for that matter). Even more so in some ways.
TOS mostly bucked the industry trends of the time but all the rest pretty much followed them instead, which is how TNG ended up a "space procedural", following the general writing trends of shows like Hill Street Blues, LA Law, and St. Elsewhere but in a post-scarcity sci-fi setting where the peer pressure was against greed instead of in line with it for instance. If TNG would have stuck with its original Macross-like format then would have bucked the trends too which might have kept the following shows from settling into the prevailing trends of their times the way they did.
DSC and PIC are no different, they are firmly products of the current entertainment industry fads and fashion (to the point that DSC seems very generic in fact), and those trends cycle, it is not some inevitable "evolution" any more than skirt hem height is.