Talking is not the same thing as whining. By your "definition", your own post would be "whining". But it's not, because your "definition" is wrong.
Who the felgercarb cares about that?
People who are talking about it, obviously. If you don't, that's cool.
Like I said in an earlier post, I'm not opposed to profanity in TV shows/movies in general. And I don't mind it in Trek either, as long as it's not just for shock value.
Data cursing when seeing the ship about to crash with his emotion chip turned on seems "right" to ME. An Admiral cursing in "private" (1 on 1) with a former admiral she thinks betrayed Starfleet also seems "right" to ME(others are free to disagree). Tilly saying the F-word because she thinks something is "cool" seems unprofessional and like the writers just wanted to say the "F" word (again, to ME; others are free to disagree). So to ME it's completely dependent on the context.
That said, if this isn't an issue you care about, that's cool. No one will force you to talk about it. But don't act like just because something doesn't matter to you that other people are doing anything wrong by talking about it.
Pretty near the beginning of the story when they are being briefed on the situation about the Romulus sun about to explode, the President of the Federation says "Holy F-word S-word" (the actual words, not what I wrote). And I have to admit, it really put a bad taste in my mouth.
No, I'm not opposed to profanity. I enjoy plenty of movies and TV shows with profanity. This just struck me as this novel only using this language because the show did. And it just didn't feel like Trek. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but it definitely "took me out of the story".
Another minor complaint...
Raffi is the one presenting the briefing about Romulus(and Picard does not actually know her yet). And immediately, at the very start of the briefing (before they have actually heard much of anything) Picard is whispering to someone how much he likes her and asking what her name was again. Now, I know the reason for this is they are setting up why he would pick her to be his first officer. But it just felt...silly...that he was expressing SO much interest in her immediately (again, at the start of the briefing before he has actually heard her say much at all) rather than after it was over.
So while I admit that is a minor complaint, I just hope the book isn't going to be full of things like that.
The swearing doesn't feel right in the show either. Admiral "Hubris" remains one of the most absurd scenes in the show thus far. Everyone hates Picard for no legitimate reason and doesn't seem to be interested in treating him with an ounce of respect like someone who saved the Federation on several occasions and had a distinguished career, so I probably shouldn't be surprised that they are swearing for no reason at all, but I am.
That instant familiarity is also jarring, and all over the place. The way he instantly recognizes Seven of Nine in the latest episode is really weird, even as the most plausible characters to be pre-familiar with each other. I can easily imagine when Voyager got back from the Delta quadrant, Picard was asked to talk with Seven to help her since he was a drone himself for a while. Maybe the next episode will establish that history, but that remains to be seen. However it is sign of bad writing and you can see it in a lot of modern writing, whatever form it takes.
The foul language is only a minor thing compared to the other problems the shows have. They tend to be rather shallow and trite compared to the older Treks, and they give the impression that the writers did little or no research (though to be fair Voyager had the research problem part too, with idiotic things like the "no turns in warp" nonsense that would show up for an episode simply because the one script needed it then it would go back to normal the next).
It is especially bad in DSC, which is essentially a "historical" setting but they make no effort whatsoever to give it a historical look or feel and just design things in generic "modern" sci-fi series terms (in fact, a lot of the designs did not even have a Star Trek feel at all from any of the eras) exactly the same as if they were doing a post-TNG setting. And they wonder why people get confused and say the tech is too advanced for TOS (even though it is vastly inferior on a function level) since it LOOKS like something from post-TNG style-wise. They don't even bother to make things function anything like the originals were supposed to or use much of the other of the established conventions or history.
Just because it is a made up future history doesn't meant it is any less important to use at least the spirit of the established look for the era a show is set in than it would be for a real-world historical. For example, pinstriped suits, flapper dresses, tommy guns, crank phones, and gangster cars may look odd and even silly to modern viewers, but when you do a series or movie set in the roaring '20s that is what you have to use instead of Armani suits and other modern fashion, cell phones, Uzis, and DeLoreans or Teslas (which of course would look silly to anyone who knows what the 1920s were supposed to look like).
And modern production technology, materials, and techniques would make the original aesthetics look good enough to modern viewers instead of the painted drywall look and rapidly decaying velour uniforms and whatnot of the original if done right.
On the other hand, I don't really trust that CBS could even do it right in the first place since their designers give the impression that they do not understand anything about the influences that went into the original designs and have no interest at all in even trying.
PIC itself is probably not quite as much of a mess as DSC but from what I have been hearing here and other boards it is a bit of a rough fit to say the least.
Pretty near the beginning of the story when they are being briefed on the situation about the Romulus sun about to explode, the President of the Federation says "Holy F-word S-word" (the actual words, not what I wrote). And I have to admit, it really put a bad taste in my mouth.
No, I'm not opposed to profanity. I enjoy plenty of movies and TV shows with profanity. This just struck me as this novel only using this language because the show did. And it just didn't feel like Trek. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but it definitely "took me out of the story".
Another minor complaint...
Raffi is the one presenting the briefing about Romulus(and Picard does not actually know her yet). And immediately, at the very start of the briefing (before they have actually heard much of anything) Picard is whispering to someone how much he likes her and asking what her name was again. Now, I know the reason for this is they are setting up why he would pick her to be his first officer. But it just felt...silly...that he was expressing SO much interest in her immediately (again, at the start of the briefing before he has actually heard her say much at all) rather than after it was over.
So while I admit that is a minor complaint, I just hope the book isn't going to be full of things like that.
The swearing doesn't feel right in the show either. Admiral "Hubris" remains one of the most absurd scenes in the show thus far. Everyone hates Picard for no legitimate reason and doesn't seem to be interested in treating him with an ounce of respect like someone who saved the Federation on several occasions and had a distinguished career, so I probably shouldn't be surprised that they are swearing for no reason at all, but I am.
That instant familiarity is also jarring, and all over the place. The way he instantly recognizes Seven of Nine in the latest episode is really weird, even as the most plausible characters to be pre-familiar with each other. I can easily imagine when Voyager got back from the Delta quadrant, Picard was asked to talk with Seven to help her since he was a drone himself for a while. Maybe the next episode will establish that history, but that remains to be seen. However it is sign of bad writing and you can see it in a lot of modern writing, whatever form it takes.
The foul language is only a minor thing compared to the other problems the shows have. They tend to be rather shallow and trite compared to the older Treks, and they give the impression that the writers did little or no research (though to be fair Voyager had the research problem part too, with idiotic things like the "no turns in warp" nonsense that would show up for an episode simply because the one script needed it then it would go back to normal the next).
It is especially bad in DSC, which is essentially a "historical" setting but they make no effort whatsoever to give it a historical look or feel and just design things in generic "modern" sci-fi series terms (in fact, a lot of the designs did not even have a Star Trek feel at all from any of the eras) exactly the same as if they were doing a post-TNG setting. And they wonder why people get confused and say the tech is too advanced for TOS (even though it is vastly inferior on a function level) since it LOOKS like something from post-TNG style-wise. They don't even bother to make things function anything like the originals were supposed to or use much of the other of the established conventions or history.
Just because it is a made up future history doesn't meant it is any less important to use at least the spirit of the established look for the era a show is set in than it would be for a real-world historical. For example, pinstriped suits, flapper dresses, tommy guns, crank phones, and gangster cars may look odd and even silly to modern viewers, but when you do a series or movie set in the roaring '20s that is what you have to use instead of Armani suits and other modern fashion, cell phones, Uzis, and DeLoreans or Teslas (which of course would look silly to anyone who knows what the 1920s were supposed to look like).
And modern production technology, materials, and techniques would make the original aesthetics look good enough to modern viewers instead of the painted drywall look and rapidly decaying velour uniforms and whatnot of the original if done right.
On the other hand, I don't really trust that CBS could even do it right in the first place since their designers give the impression that they do not understand anything about the influences that went into the original designs and have no interest at all in even trying.
PIC itself is probably not quite as much of a mess as DSC but from what I have been hearing here and other boards it is a bit of a rough fit to say the least.
One of my problems with Discovery when it first came out is that it felt like a sequel and not a prequel. It shouldn't be that easy to turn Discovery into a sequel by just changing the name of the Klingons to a new alien race and remove all mention of Spock and Sarek. It was only the name drops in Season 1 that showed that it was a prequel.
Picard feels like it is the end of the 24th Century aside from the fact that the Federation decided to throw out all of their ideals.
Even if I'm wrong on all things above, there is still no call for Admiral 'Hubris' to unprofessionally overreact, be so excessively hostile to him, and treat Picard with such disrespect, not just as a former Starfleet officer with a distinguished career, but as a human being.
He said what Starfleet did was "downright criminal". That's a quite worse accusation then "TRIBBLE hybris". And in fact, accusing the organization you left of criminal actions and then coming back and ask to be reinstated, possibly as Admiral, but Captain would be okay, too, and given a ship and crew for a special mission is indeed hybris. There is no way around it.
The Admiral wasn't "diplomatic". But not being diplomatic is not the same as being unprofessional.
He was being hyperbolic. He obviously isn't in a position to determine that Starfleet did anything criminal, and if they had there should have been some sort of justice meted out, but no law was actually broken. Instead he's stressing how much it bothered him, and went counter to the values he believed Starfleet held (and lets be honest here, he's fairly ridiculous to continue thinking this as the fleet was destroyed. What else could they really do in time that the Romulans couldn't do themselves? This is a pretty weak plot point overall, but just taking it at face value it is still silly for him to do so.)
Admiral Hubris on the other hand acted like she was personally offended, got angry, and didn't control herself which is definitely unprofessional. Should they have given him a ship and reinstated him? No, of course not. I agree Picard did himself no favors, but the overreaction was not his. Its not even her swearing that bothered me, not that it wasn't out of place, it was her total reaction.
I don't think its easy to explain how off the interpersonal reactions feel in this show, but I definitely feel like there is a pattern there.
> @foxrockssocks said:
> (Quote)
>
> I think its rather hyperbolic to describe the interview as blasting. Its 14 years after the events. No one cares anymore. Any public backlash from the decision happened a long time ago.
>
> And, if I remember right, he was explicitly told there would not be questions on the subject which is why he agreed to the interview, but the reporter did not respect that. That tells me that 'mainstream' media hasn't changed in 400 years so no one really cares what they have to say when they will be known, as they are now, to want to push their agenda or outright lie.
>
> Also, resigning in a huff is silly to say. Resignation is the utmost, absolutely professional thing to do in such a situation. Why they fired Raffi too I still don't understand, nor why she blames Picard, or why she hasn't done anything else with her life in the intervening time, but that probably isn't exactly relevant for the scene in question.
>
> Now, First Contact was contrived but at least plausible, because they has no real understanding of how Picard would react to another encounter with the Borg. Being assimilated had lasting effects on him so they were uncertain if he would be a liability or not. Also it wasn't disrespectful, it was distrustful. I don't recall them swearing at him with obvious hostility, they simply gave him busywork orders to keep him out of the battle.
>
> Even if I'm wrong on all things above, there is still no call for Admiral 'Hubris' to unprofessionally overreact, be so excessively hostile to him, and treat Picard with such disrespect, not just as a former Starfleet officer with a distinguished career, but as a human being.
You are making a lot of assumptions. How do you know that no one cares about the Mars attack 14 years later? How do you know that no one cares what the media has to say?
No one would know how Picard would act when he encounters the Borg again? Going off memory Picard has encountered the Borg at least twice after Best of Both Worlds.
One of the most respected Starfleet captains said on galactic tv “Starfleet is no longer starfleet and it betrayed its values” (paraphrased and off the top of my head). Why would you think that a day or two later they’d welcome him with open arms?
Of course I'm making assumptions. I see how the modern world works, and extrapolate from there. What else am I supposed to do, exactly?
You can imagine getting robbed 14 years ago. At the time you would be surely upset about it, but 14 years later if someone brings it up, are you going to break down crying or rush to lock your door or something? No you've moved on. Maybe you're still kinda mad, but not to remotely the same level as you were back then. Time dulls human reactions to the past.
And a media that lies about interviews is going to be untrustworthy and known for pushing their agenda. It is exactly the sort of thing we see today so I see no problem applying that to fictional media that is demonstrated to lie.
That plot point of First Contact was not my writing. That is how I remember it though, they basically didn't trust how he would react to the Borg, that was it. That doesn't mean it made sense, it was purely there to build up some drama to have the Enterprise swoop in to save the day.
And again I don't think they would or should welcome him back with open arms. Obviously what he just said was a problem, yet Admiral Hubris getting personally offended to react like she did is simply nonsense.
The attack on Mars killed 92,000 people and left that planet scarred. I don’t think it’s the same as getting robbed. Something that massive is not easily forgotten. 14 years after 9/11 and NY and America was still dealing with the aftermath.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The attack on Mars killed 92,000 people and left that planet scarred. I don’t think it’s the same as getting robbed. Something that massive is not easily forgotten. 14 years after 9/11 and NY and America was still dealing with the aftermath.
America is still dealing with the Aftermath today. Hell had someone who resigned shortly after 9/11 from a prestigious military post gone on national TV and said the US betrayed it's values after 9/11 it would have quite possiably been front page news.
For those claiming the admiral wasn't "professional" this was two people talking behind closed doors. when emtions where high, yes it wasn't totally professional, but noit everyone is totally professional all the time, especially in closed door meetings. Starfleet officers are, at the end of the day still human. And frankly Clancy was RIGHT to call out Picard for what he did. I mean the audacity to bad mouth an orginization for a judgement call it made one BTW Clancy was effectivly forced to make via politics. she noted a good 15 worlds threatened to leave if they didn't cancel the Romulan aide mission. that's likely a good 10% of the federation, only to have him come to her with a fantastic story (and by fantastic I mean "frankly hard to belive) and ask "ohh can you give me a ship and a crew so I can persue this personal mission?" (Back in TNG Picard chewed Worf out for attempting to use his position in starfleet to persue a personal mission) so yeah frankly I dont' blame her at all.
The attack on Mars killed 92,000 people and left that planet scarred. I don’t think it’s the same as getting robbed. Something that massive is not easily forgotten. 14 years after 9/11 and NY and America was still dealing with the aftermath.
America is still dealing with the Aftermath today. Hell had someone who resigned shortly after 9/11 from a prestigious military post gone on national TV and said the US betrayed it's values after 9/11 it would have quite possiably been front page news.
For those claiming the admiral wasn't "professional" this was two people talking behind closed doors. when emtions where high, yes it wasn't totally professional, but noit everyone is totally professional all the time, especially in closed door meetings. Starfleet officers are, at the end of the day still human. And frankly Clancy was RIGHT to call out Picard for what he did. I mean the audacity to bad mouth an orginization for a judgement call it made one BTW Clancy was effectivly forced to make via politics. she noted a good 15 worlds threatened to leave if they didn't cancel the Romulan aide mission. that's likely a good 10% of the federation, only to have him come to her with a fantastic story (and by fantastic I mean "frankly hard to belive) and ask "ohh can you give me a ship and a crew so I can persue this personal mission?" (Back in TNG Picard chewed Worf out for attempting to use his position in starfleet to persue a personal mission) so yeah frankly I dont' blame her at all.
As far as 10% of the Federation leaving, it depends on the ideals of the Federation. If these 15 worlds can't support the ideals that made the Federation great, then maybe they should have just left the Federation. Saner minds prevailed when Praxis was destroyed and the Klingons eventually became allies of the Federation, but they failed miserably when Romulans needed the Federation's help. Starfleet acting cowardly could explain the Federation in Season 3 of Discovery. Once an organization compromises their ideals, then it becomes easier and easier until it is just a hollow shell of its former self.
The attack on Mars killed 92,000 people and left that planet scarred. I don’t think it’s the same as getting robbed. Something that massive is not easily forgotten. 14 years after 9/11 and NY and America was still dealing with the aftermath.
It isn't remotely the same as it was the year after. The paranoia isn't there, the uncertainty isn't there, everyone is a lot more normal these days than '02. They built a new building, killed or captured people who planned it. Healing is well underway, there's none of the paranoia and uncertainty. No, it wasn't remotely the same 14 years after the 9/11 as the day after, or the year after. Obviously there are still things to deal with, like terrible laws passed in duress, but the country is largely past it.
While Mars is ludicrously still burning despite that being physically impossible after 14 years, androids are banned. So the threat is now nonexistant without androids (why holograms are okay, I have no idea.) The people killed are dead and buried (cremated obviously, but survivors had their funerals) and the survivors have moved on, except Raffi I guess. Have people forgotten it? No, but they aren't going to be remotely as sensitive to it after 14 years.
And again it is not at all professional to swear at a Federation citizen, losing your temper, while acting in a professional capacity when you're in Starfleet, if we go by standards for the US military. Picard is not Starfleet anymore. He's not serving his [country], but she is serving him as she is a member of Starfleet. Her reaction was totally unprofessional and unnecessary. Even if he triggered her somehow, she has the obligation to control her temper and remain professional with him.
The more I watch of the show the less it feels like star trek. and I don't mean like with Discovery where it felt like Discovery was just imitating star trek and didn't understand what made the other shows good, I mean it feels like whoever is writing picard has never watched a single episode of star trek in their life, or is specifically hellbent on tearing down everything that made star trek you know a peaceful future. We see that apparently now in picard Poverty is a thing. Like what the TRIBBLE? Every single show has made it clear that poverty and many similar issues had been eliminated from it. The federation's reaction to the romulans needing to be evacuated just feels sour (Ohhh 14 planets threatened to leave if you save 1 species from extinction? What? Who wrote that? When did the federation let in planets that would rather let someone die out than let them in?), the federation created an army of androids despite a judge ruling that androids like Data are people too(That episode was very serious, and although it could make sense, its too big of a leap to make since Picard and everyone on the Enterprise D would have fought against anyone trying to overrule that.
As others have pointed out too, the use of language by professionals is baffling, and in my opinion this new romulan secret agency who they seem to want to have been even more secret than the Tal Shiar doesn't make sense and I feel like that's going to get even worse as time goes on. And I know more and more issues are going to pop up as the show goes on too. Its just... disappointing that this is where we are now.
episode 4 is really cool; the romulan in STP are so awesome, I hope that the romulans in STO will be modified. I had lost hope with discovery, but with STP I have again the faith (I don't believe in anything), that the star trek franchise will have a cool future.
I would have to all the romulan stuff seen in the episodes: weapons, costumes, hair cuts etc. Even 1000 zen for a costume bound to character, I would buy it for all my rom toons.
This logic is probably why they took most or all of the Human hairstyles in STO and added them to Romulans.
The La Sirena is definitely an interesting ship - it's maneuverability was something else. I don't know if it has any real firepower, since the only thing it fought was an old bird of prey, and it had help in that. I suppose the Bird of Prey might have gotten some refits in its time, but I doubt a local warlord has the resources to bring it up to late 24th century standards.
Yeah incremental tinkering is a lot easier than just gutting and re-building.
Wasn’t there also a food shortage on Tarsus IV which led Kodos to kill 4,000 people. Also in Wrath of Khan during the Genesis video proposal Doctor Marcus says “When we consider the cosmic problems of population and food supply the usefulness of this process becomes clear.”
Seems like even back in the TOS era they were dealing with these issues.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Wasn’t there also a food shortage on Tarsus IV which led Kodos to kill 4,000 people.
Also in Wrath of Khan during the Genesis video proposal Doctor Marcus says “When we consider the cosmic problems of population and food supply the usefulness of this process becomes clear.”
Seems like even back in the TOS era they were dealing with these issues.
TOS/TMP era was before replicators, I think. They were a game changer.
> @thegrandnagus1 said: > (Quote) > > TOS/TMP era was before replicators, I think. They were a game changer.
They had their version of the replicator
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Though in Undiscovered Country we see that the Enterprise has a galley and cooks so I can see where the confusion comes from
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Though in Undiscovered Country we see that the Enterprise has a galley and cooks so I can see where the confusion comes from
It had one relatively tiny (for 430 crew) galley kitchen. It was probably more for the occasional crewman who wanted to make something himself/herself; or special events.
Post edited by crypticarmsman on
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
> @crypticarmsman said: > (Quote) > > I had one relatively tiny (for 430 crew) galley kitchen. It was probably more for the occasional crewman who wanted to make something himself/herself; or special events.
It may have just been for officers
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I guess the planets with food shortages did not have access to this tech?
It is more likely the same thing that happens to charity donations to third-world countries. Any replicators donated to a starving planet goes to the elites while the poor are still starving. Advanced technology can't fix stupid and corrupt governments.
Then there is the Prime Directive which prevents the Federation from helping out for pre-warp civilizations. The Prime Directive might even apply to Federation colony worlds that decide to become a pre-warp civilization. It is possible to have a Luddite or Amish colony planet that was established before the Federation existed.
Earth didn't have poverty any more. It has always just been Earth Picard talked about, not the entire universe. I don't know why so many people struggle with this. You can extrapolate UFP core worlds being the same, but it was clearly different in Federation colonies and outside the UFP.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I guess the planets with food shortages did not have access to this tech?
It is more likely the same thing that happens to charity donations to third-world countries. Any replicators donated to a starving planet goes to the elites while the poor are still starving. Advanced technology can't fix stupid and corrupt governments.
Then there is the Prime Directive which prevents the Federation from helping out for pre-warp civilizations. The Prime Directive might even apply to Federation colony worlds that decide to become a pre-warp civilization. It is possible to have a Luddite or Amish colony planet that was established before the Federation existed.
There was a TNG episode where they forcibly relocated a colony of American indians that were living traditionally on some planet. I can't recall the episode or why they did it, but I don't think it was one of the better TNG episodes.
if i recall, the 'why' was it was one of the planets that ended up on the cardassian side of the DMZ - that may have been a different episode and situation, though
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Though in Undiscovered Country we see that the Enterprise has a galley and cooks so I can see where the confusion comes from
It had one relatively tiny (for 430 crew) galley kitchen. It was probably more for the occasional crewman who wanted to make something himself/herself; or special events.
The Enterprise was acting in a special diplomatic capacity at the time, those kitchens are probably not staffed (and may not even exist) when on a normal deployment (though some captains would have private mess and whatnot it has been established since TOS that Kirk uses the same mess as everyone else on the ship).
if i recall, the 'why' was it was one of the planets that ended up on the cardassian side of the DMZ - that may have been a different episode and situation, though
You are right, the Federation and Cardassia traded some worlds that were in the other's territory in order to simplify the border situation.
I guess the planets with food shortages did not have access to this tech?
It is more likely the same thing that happens to charity donations to third-world countries. Any replicators donated to a starving planet goes to the elites while the poor are still starving. Advanced technology can't fix stupid and corrupt governments.
Then there is the Prime Directive which prevents the Federation from helping out for pre-warp civilizations. The Prime Directive might even apply to Federation colony worlds that decide to become a pre-warp civilization. It is possible to have a Luddite or Amish colony planet that was established before the Federation existed.
There was a TNG episode where they forcibly relocated a colony of American indians that were living traditionally on some planet. I can't recall the episode or why they did it, but I don't think it was one of the better TNG episodes.
It is Journey's End which involved the Cardassians and Wesley Crusher leaving with The Traveler. There is also Homeward which involves Worf's human brother and transporting a primitive civilization to another planet without them realizing they traveled to another planet using the Holodeck. Homeward required Picard to violate the Prime Directive. It could be argued that the Admiral and Federation Council in Journey's End violated the Prime Directive by trying to kick the Native Americans off of their land.
Picard: "Inexcusable! You defied the orders of the ranking officer on the scene! You put the lives of the entire away team in jeopardy, and you've made an already tense situation worse!! Your actions reflect very badly on this ship and on that uniform. Now I want an explanation, Mr. Crusher, and I want it now!"
Wesley: "What you are doing down there is wrong. These people are not some random group of colonists. They are a unique culture with a history that predates the Federation and Starfleet."
Picard: "That does not alter the fact that my orders are to… "
Wesley: "I know Admiral Necheyev gave you an order, and she was given an order from the Federation council, but it's still wrong."
Picard: "That decision is not yours to make, Cadet! I don't know what has gotten into you lately; and frankly, right now, I don't care. But I will tell you this: while you wear that uniform, you will obey every order you are given, and you will conform to Starfleet regulations and rules of conduct. Is that clear?!"
Wesley: "Yes sir, it is; but I won't be wearing this uniform any longer. I'm resigning from the Academy."
I guess the planets with food shortages did not have access to this tech?
I think the whole replicator thing is a red herring in regards to their "post-scarcity" society. you don't need replicators for that IMO. Just because in a normal circumstance you don't have scarcity problems doesn't mean that extraordinary circumstances cannot still cause it - for example, a major crops blight that they couldn't find a treatment for in time can ruin a harvest and make you run short, even if normally the automatic harvester robots would produce more than enough food to supply twice the population's size, for example.
Or, your super-awesome replicators run out of power because your colony's fusion reactor blew up and your solar power cells cannot produce energy to replicate sufficient amounts of food, especially not with the unusually clouded sky these weeks.
Also, I am not sure that colony worlds are always already at the post-scarcity level. It seems clear the people on newly founded colonies have to actually put work in if the colony is to survive. (Heck, these particular challenges might be the reason for some people to become colonists in the first place, other than maybe having their own special hippy or prepper or orgy community that doesn't want to follow the rules of other worlds.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
So I am watching the first episode of the new series. I have a question that I can't get out of my mind. In the show the girl that is shown in the painting says something about when the Androids attacked Mars. Can someone please explain this.
Fleet Admiral of the U.S.S. ATTILA KHAN-CDA (NX-921911).
So I am watching the first episode of the new series. I have a question that I can't get out of my mind. In the show the girl that is shown in the painting says something about when the Androids attacked Mars. Can someone please explain this.
Talking is not the same thing as whining. By your "definition", your own post would be "whining". But it's not, because your "definition" is wrong.
Who the felgercarb cares about that?
People who are talking about it, obviously. If you don't, that's cool.
Like I said in an earlier post, I'm not opposed to profanity in TV shows/movies in general. And I don't mind it in Trek either, as long as it's not just for shock value.
Data cursing when seeing the ship about to crash with his emotion chip turned on seems "right" to ME. An Admiral cursing in "private" (1 on 1) with a former admiral she thinks betrayed Starfleet also seems "right" to ME(others are free to disagree). Tilly saying the F-word because she thinks something is "cool" seems unprofessional and like the writers just wanted to say the "F" word (again, to ME; others are free to disagree). So to ME it's completely dependent on the context.
That said, if this isn't an issue you care about, that's cool. No one will force you to talk about it. But don't act like just because something doesn't matter to you that other people are doing anything wrong by talking about it.
I'm european too, and I don't understand (but I accept) why these words are a problem; the Roddenberry's utopy was a fairytail vision; Humanity will stay the same even in 2,3,4 centuries only technologies evolve. Sumerians (4500 bc) had also their "f" words.
These words will be still used in the future, I have no doubt about this. In tv shows, these words make the characters human as we are in rl. after all, we are not robots; we have weaknesses, impulsivity. This is exactly how Tilly was; a human female; that's all.
we can improve, but not fundamentally change.
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Talking is not the same thing as whining. By your "definition", your own post would be "whining". But it's not, because your "definition" is wrong.
People who are talking about it, obviously. If you don't, that's cool.
Like I said in an earlier post, I'm not opposed to profanity in TV shows/movies in general. And I don't mind it in Trek either, as long as it's not just for shock value.
Data cursing when seeing the ship about to crash with his emotion chip turned on seems "right" to ME. An Admiral cursing in "private" (1 on 1) with a former admiral she thinks betrayed Starfleet also seems "right" to ME(others are free to disagree). Tilly saying the F-word because she thinks something is "cool" seems unprofessional and like the writers just wanted to say the "F" word (again, to ME; others are free to disagree). So to ME it's completely dependent on the context.
That said, if this isn't an issue you care about, that's cool. No one will force you to talk about it. But don't act like just because something doesn't matter to you that other people are doing anything wrong by talking about it.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The foul language is only a minor thing compared to the other problems the shows have. They tend to be rather shallow and trite compared to the older Treks, and they give the impression that the writers did little or no research (though to be fair Voyager had the research problem part too, with idiotic things like the "no turns in warp" nonsense that would show up for an episode simply because the one script needed it then it would go back to normal the next).
It is especially bad in DSC, which is essentially a "historical" setting but they make no effort whatsoever to give it a historical look or feel and just design things in generic "modern" sci-fi series terms (in fact, a lot of the designs did not even have a Star Trek feel at all from any of the eras) exactly the same as if they were doing a post-TNG setting. And they wonder why people get confused and say the tech is too advanced for TOS (even though it is vastly inferior on a function level) since it LOOKS like something from post-TNG style-wise. They don't even bother to make things function anything like the originals were supposed to or use much of the other of the established conventions or history.
Just because it is a made up future history doesn't meant it is any less important to use at least the spirit of the established look for the era a show is set in than it would be for a real-world historical. For example, pinstriped suits, flapper dresses, tommy guns, crank phones, and gangster cars may look odd and even silly to modern viewers, but when you do a series or movie set in the roaring '20s that is what you have to use instead of Armani suits and other modern fashion, cell phones, Uzis, and DeLoreans or Teslas (which of course would look silly to anyone who knows what the 1920s were supposed to look like).
And modern production technology, materials, and techniques would make the original aesthetics look good enough to modern viewers instead of the painted drywall look and rapidly decaying velour uniforms and whatnot of the original if done right.
On the other hand, I don't really trust that CBS could even do it right in the first place since their designers give the impression that they do not understand anything about the influences that went into the original designs and have no interest at all in even trying.
PIC itself is probably not quite as much of a mess as DSC but from what I have been hearing here and other boards it is a bit of a rough fit to say the least.
One of my problems with Discovery when it first came out is that it felt like a sequel and not a prequel. It shouldn't be that easy to turn Discovery into a sequel by just changing the name of the Klingons to a new alien race and remove all mention of Spock and Sarek. It was only the name drops in Season 1 that showed that it was a prequel.
Picard feels like it is the end of the 24th Century aside from the fact that the Federation decided to throw out all of their ideals.
He was being hyperbolic. He obviously isn't in a position to determine that Starfleet did anything criminal, and if they had there should have been some sort of justice meted out, but no law was actually broken. Instead he's stressing how much it bothered him, and went counter to the values he believed Starfleet held (and lets be honest here, he's fairly ridiculous to continue thinking this as the fleet was destroyed. What else could they really do in time that the Romulans couldn't do themselves? This is a pretty weak plot point overall, but just taking it at face value it is still silly for him to do so.)
Admiral Hubris on the other hand acted like she was personally offended, got angry, and didn't control herself which is definitely unprofessional. Should they have given him a ship and reinstated him? No, of course not. I agree Picard did himself no favors, but the overreaction was not his. Its not even her swearing that bothered me, not that it wasn't out of place, it was her total reaction.
I don't think its easy to explain how off the interpersonal reactions feel in this show, but I definitely feel like there is a pattern there.
Of course I'm making assumptions. I see how the modern world works, and extrapolate from there. What else am I supposed to do, exactly?
You can imagine getting robbed 14 years ago. At the time you would be surely upset about it, but 14 years later if someone brings it up, are you going to break down crying or rush to lock your door or something? No you've moved on. Maybe you're still kinda mad, but not to remotely the same level as you were back then. Time dulls human reactions to the past.
And a media that lies about interviews is going to be untrustworthy and known for pushing their agenda. It is exactly the sort of thing we see today so I see no problem applying that to fictional media that is demonstrated to lie.
That plot point of First Contact was not my writing. That is how I remember it though, they basically didn't trust how he would react to the Borg, that was it. That doesn't mean it made sense, it was purely there to build up some drama to have the Enterprise swoop in to save the day.
And again I don't think they would or should welcome him back with open arms. Obviously what he just said was a problem, yet Admiral Hubris getting personally offended to react like she did is simply nonsense.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
For those claiming the admiral wasn't "professional" this was two people talking behind closed doors. when emtions where high, yes it wasn't totally professional, but noit everyone is totally professional all the time, especially in closed door meetings. Starfleet officers are, at the end of the day still human. And frankly Clancy was RIGHT to call out Picard for what he did. I mean the audacity to bad mouth an orginization for a judgement call it made one BTW Clancy was effectivly forced to make via politics. she noted a good 15 worlds threatened to leave if they didn't cancel the Romulan aide mission. that's likely a good 10% of the federation, only to have him come to her with a fantastic story (and by fantastic I mean "frankly hard to belive) and ask "ohh can you give me a ship and a crew so I can persue this personal mission?" (Back in TNG Picard chewed Worf out for attempting to use his position in starfleet to persue a personal mission) so yeah frankly I dont' blame her at all.
As far as 10% of the Federation leaving, it depends on the ideals of the Federation. If these 15 worlds can't support the ideals that made the Federation great, then maybe they should have just left the Federation. Saner minds prevailed when Praxis was destroyed and the Klingons eventually became allies of the Federation, but they failed miserably when Romulans needed the Federation's help. Starfleet acting cowardly could explain the Federation in Season 3 of Discovery. Once an organization compromises their ideals, then it becomes easier and easier until it is just a hollow shell of its former self.
It isn't remotely the same as it was the year after. The paranoia isn't there, the uncertainty isn't there, everyone is a lot more normal these days than '02. They built a new building, killed or captured people who planned it. Healing is well underway, there's none of the paranoia and uncertainty. No, it wasn't remotely the same 14 years after the 9/11 as the day after, or the year after. Obviously there are still things to deal with, like terrible laws passed in duress, but the country is largely past it.
While Mars is ludicrously still burning despite that being physically impossible after 14 years, androids are banned. So the threat is now nonexistant without androids (why holograms are okay, I have no idea.) The people killed are dead and buried (cremated obviously, but survivors had their funerals) and the survivors have moved on, except Raffi I guess. Have people forgotten it? No, but they aren't going to be remotely as sensitive to it after 14 years.
And again it is not at all professional to swear at a Federation citizen, losing your temper, while acting in a professional capacity when you're in Starfleet, if we go by standards for the US military. Picard is not Starfleet anymore. He's not serving his [country], but she is serving him as she is a member of Starfleet. Her reaction was totally unprofessional and unnecessary. Even if he triggered her somehow, she has the obligation to control her temper and remain professional with him.
As others have pointed out too, the use of language by professionals is baffling, and in my opinion this new romulan secret agency who they seem to want to have been even more secret than the Tal Shiar doesn't make sense and I feel like that's going to get even worse as time goes on. And I know more and more issues are going to pop up as the show goes on too. Its just... disappointing that this is where we are now.
My character Tsin'xing
Turkana IV.
Yes I'm sure poverty within the federation's worlds is a thing of the past. the world in question was clearly NOT a federation world.
Also in Wrath of Khan during the Genesis video proposal Doctor Marcus says “When we consider the cosmic problems of population and food supply the usefulness of this process becomes clear.”
Seems like even back in the TOS era they were dealing with these issues.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
TOS/TMP era was before replicators, I think. They were a game changer.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
> (Quote)
>
> TOS/TMP era was before replicators, I think. They were a game changer.
They had their version of the replicator
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Oh? What was that?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Food_synthesizer
I guess the planets with food shortages did not have access to this tech?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It had one relatively tiny (for 430 crew) galley kitchen. It was probably more for the occasional crewman who wanted to make something himself/herself; or special events.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
> (Quote)
>
> I had one relatively tiny (for 430 crew) galley kitchen. It was probably more for the occasional crewman who wanted to make something himself/herself; or special events.
It may have just been for officers
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It is more likely the same thing that happens to charity donations to third-world countries. Any replicators donated to a starving planet goes to the elites while the poor are still starving. Advanced technology can't fix stupid and corrupt governments.
Then there is the Prime Directive which prevents the Federation from helping out for pre-warp civilizations. The Prime Directive might even apply to Federation colony worlds that decide to become a pre-warp civilization. It is possible to have a Luddite or Amish colony planet that was established before the Federation existed.
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There was a TNG episode where they forcibly relocated a colony of American indians that were living traditionally on some planet. I can't recall the episode or why they did it, but I don't think it was one of the better TNG episodes.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The Enterprise was acting in a special diplomatic capacity at the time, those kitchens are probably not staffed (and may not even exist) when on a normal deployment (though some captains would have private mess and whatnot it has been established since TOS that Kirk uses the same mess as everyone else on the ship).
You are right, the Federation and Cardassia traded some worlds that were in the other's territory in order to simplify the border situation.
It is Journey's End which involved the Cardassians and Wesley Crusher leaving with The Traveler. There is also Homeward which involves Worf's human brother and transporting a primitive civilization to another planet without them realizing they traveled to another planet using the Holodeck. Homeward required Picard to violate the Prime Directive. It could be argued that the Admiral and Federation Council in Journey's End violated the Prime Directive by trying to kick the Native Americans off of their land.
Or, your super-awesome replicators run out of power because your colony's fusion reactor blew up and your solar power cells cannot produce energy to replicate sufficient amounts of food, especially not with the unusually clouded sky these weeks.
Also, I am not sure that colony worlds are always already at the post-scarcity level. It seems clear the people on newly founded colonies have to actually put work in if the colony is to survive. (Heck, these particular challenges might be the reason for some people to become colonists in the first place, other than maybe having their own special hippy or prepper or orgy community that doesn't want to follow the rules of other worlds.)
The show explains it in future episodes.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I'm european too, and I don't understand (but I accept) why these words are a problem; the Roddenberry's utopy was a fairytail vision; Humanity will stay the same even in 2,3,4 centuries only technologies evolve. Sumerians (4500 bc) had also their "f" words.
These words will be still used in the future, I have no doubt about this. In tv shows, these words make the characters human as we are in rl. after all, we are not robots; we have weaknesses, impulsivity. This is exactly how Tilly was; a human female; that's all.
we can improve, but not fundamentally change.