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"We are looking into the data for making lock box and phoenix stuff account wide, but..."

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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 3,728 Arc User
    For those that want the Miradorn, now is the time to put up or shut up.

    I agree. Anyone who ever claimed they would buy this SPECIFIC ship if added to the zen store should do so now. But anyone who ever asked for any OTHER ship has nothing to prove with this situation.

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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 11,919 Arc User
    Well, some people were claiming that they'd buy some lockbox ships for Zen, even if they were more expensive, especially when it became an account unlock. Now everyone has the chance to put their money where their mouth is, and a great chance for the community to show to Cryptic how profitable selling gamble ships directly in the C-Store could be.

    Your comment is incredibly disingenuous. The ONLY people who need to "put their money where their mouth is" are the very few people who said they would be this SPECIFIC ship if it were added to the zen store. All the other people who said they would buy any OTHER lock box ship have nothing to prove in this specific situation. For example, a person who vowed to buy a t6 connie if it were ever added to the zen store is under absolutely no obligation to buy the Miradorn.


    ^^ Zactly!

    Put the fidget spinner in the C-Store, and I will buy it. Or a T6 Connie. And a few other ships, no doubt. Doesn't mean I'm suddenly obligated to buy every ship out there now made available thru the C-Store.

    Also, it is not "for the community to show to Cryptic how profitable selling gamble ships directly in the C-Store could be." Rather the onus is on Cryptic to make things a bit more 'accessible' (their words) -- even if that means somewhat less immediate profit. The idea of course being, that only selling all the good ships starting at a 1.5b+ price tag, for the very happy few, ultimately runs counter to the overall viability of the game. Call it a greed nerf, if you will, to normalize a situation that had gotten out of hand a bit.
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 7,871 Arc User
    jexsamx wrote: »
    Always wanted a Miradorn, especially one I could reclaim across multiple characters, but... hoofa doofa, that price is steep. If it had been 3k on sale I might have gone for it, but 6k is right out.

    Sorry, you'll never own a lock box ship then.

    Cryptic is currently getting 250 lock box key sales per single-character unlock of lock boxes. There is no chance at all that they will drop the price down to 4,000 zen list for an account-wide unlock where you could get one for 3.100 zen during a 30% off sale.

    I'd love to pay $30 for a T6 TOS Connie but I know that's not going to happen either.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,486 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    The idea of course being, that only selling all the good ships starting at a 1.5b+ price tag, for the very happy few, ultimately runs counter to the overall viability of the game. Call it a greed nerf, if you will, to normalize a situation that had gotten out of hand a bit.

    That's not what's happening though. There's plenty of good ships in the c-store and available via fleet modules. The Gagarin/Qugh and the Arbiter/Kurak/Morrigu are just a couple of really obvious examples. And depending on your definition of "good" that list can get ridiculously long.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
    The 6k might be justified by some as you'd likely be dumping more than that on keys to gamblebox a ship but once the ship hits the store that "exclusive" status is removed and it becomes another store ship.

    As with the 100% tokens they could put lock in place such as not adding gamblebox ships until a few years have passed allowing them to milk wallets from the initial and infinity boxes while eventually giving it to the masses who'd rather not waste time or money on keys to get lots of low value box padding.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,691 Arc User
    Would this affect the sales of the lockbox version of the ship on the exchance in any way?
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,404 Arc User
    The 6k might be justified by some as you'd likely be dumping more than that on keys to gamblebox a ship but once the ship hits the store that "exclusive" status is removed and it becomes another store ship.
    The 6k isn't FOR a ship, it's for a whole bundle.

    It's just a bit unfortunate all the bundle contents are rather old and most players who wanted it probably already have it.
  • pwecangetlostpwecangetlost Member Posts: 516 Arc User
    I feel like we're glossing over the fact we were told these things *had* to be in lockboxes because of CBS wanting to maintain rarity etc. But now its suddenly okay because its a less popular ship and writing is on the wall for the legality of lockboxes in many territories?
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,486 Arc User
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Would this affect the sales of the lockbox version of the ship on the exchance in any way?

    Well, if you looked at the exchange price when the announcement hit and look at the exchange price now, you'd have your answer. And the answer is that we've seen a drop of about 40% in price on the exchange.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 38,347 Arc User
    Honestly, I am kind of tempted to get it for 6k zen even though I'm not a big fan of the miradorn, but sadly the sale will most likely end before my next paycheck. But the original price of 12k zen is a bit outlandish for a lockbox ship I'm not that interested in.

    There are other lockbox ships I might be tempted to for 12k, and especially promo ships, but the miradorn is not a ship I inherently want.
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 7,871 Arc User
    edited January 20
    I feel like we're glossing over the fact we were told these things *had* to be in lockboxes because of CBS wanting to maintain rarity etc. But now its suddenly okay because its a less popular ship and writing is on the wall for the legality of lockboxes in many territories?

    Things change. CBS finally allowed a T6 TOS Connie into the game after blocking it for many years. CBS is working with Cryptic more closely now, such as with the Discovery content.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 5,228 Arc User
    For those that want the Miradorn, now is the time to put up or shut up.

    If it was any ship I actually wanted, I would buy it in a heartbeat. I have no interest in the Miradorn however, and since I know I wouldn't use it buying it would be a waste of money.
    I feel like we're glossing over the fact we were told these things *had* to be in lockboxes because of CBS wanting to maintain rarity etc.

    I think the whole "alien ships need to be rare" thing went out the window when Jem'hadar and Cardassian ships were added to the C-Store.
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  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 3,681 Arc User
    I feel like we're glossing over the fact we were told these things *had* to be in lockboxes because of CBS wanting to maintain rarity etc. But now its suddenly okay because its a less popular ship and writing is on the wall for the legality of lockboxes in many territories?

    Things change. CBS finally allowed a T6 TOS Connie into the game after blocking it for many years. CBS is working with Cryptic more closely now, such as with the Discovery content.

    Pity it was executed in a way that CBS left a nasty flavor in our mouths. *glares at the R&D boxes* :s
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited January 20
    Well, some people were claiming that they'd buy some lockbox ships for Zen, even if they were more expensive, especially when it became an account unlock. Now everyone has the chance to put their money where their mouth is, and a great chance for the community to show to Cryptic how profitable selling gamble ships directly in the C-Store could be.

    Your comment is incredibly disingenuous. The ONLY people who need to "put their money where their mouth is" are the very few people who said they would be this SPECIFIC ship if it were added to the zen store. All the other people who said they would buy any OTHER lock box ship have nothing to prove in this specific situation. For example, a person who vowed to buy a t6 connie if it were ever added to the zen store is under absolutely no obligation to buy the Miradorn.

    I don't expect everyone that ever said they would lockbox ships if they were direct buys to purchase these ships. Just as I don't expect everyone that acquires the occasional lockbox ship to buy all of them.

    But despite this, this model is a way for Cryptic to gauge whether it can work. Because there are people that acquired the Miradorn via lockboxes. So if now a sufficiently larger number of people are going to buy the C-Store version of the ship, Cryptic has the data to suggest they could have just sold the ship in the C-Store. If not, they see it was better to take the money from the people that were willing to buy the lockboxes, because they gave Cryptic more, and selling it at the C-Store prize would have been less profitable.
    Or maybe they figure out that the C-Store price needs to be just a bit higher and it could work.

    Either way, this is a way for Cryptic to see if it could actually work, or people just are making predictions that don't match reality.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 49,624 Arc User
    The primary deterant though is the price. Full price actually costs MORE than pretty much everything in that pack bought seperately.

    If they dropped the full price to maybe 8k or something it might be reasonable, but 12k is too much off sale.

    Honestly a better way to measure interest in C-Store lockbox ships would be to not put it in an overpriced bundle, especially one that is more geared towards newer players that don't already have most of what's in said bundle.
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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    The 6k might be justified by some as you'd likely be dumping more than that on keys to gamblebox a ship but once the ship hits the store that "exclusive" status is removed and it becomes another store ship.
    The 6k isn't FOR a ship, it's for a whole bundle.

    It's just a bit unfortunate all the bundle contents are rather old and most players who wanted it probably already have it.

    Even more unfortunate when that 6k is a 50% discount on the bundle of floor sweepings they threw together.
  • edrickvellorinedrickvellorin Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    I bought the overpriced Picard bundle, mainly for the Miradorn and Constellation costume, and I would really like account unlocks for Lobi/Phoenix/Lockbox/Promo ships. I would buy more keys and such then I do now if the ships were account unlock. (Promo is what really annoys me, one ship I really want is a promo ship but R&D packs are expensive compared to buying lockbox keys, and spending hundreds of dollars for a small chance to get a single ship to use on one character vs buying a bunch of zen store T6 ships, just doesn't seem worth it. Especially since the other stuff you get aside from Lobi just isn't as interesting as the stuff you can get from lockboxes. I had so much R&D stuff on my main, I got an overflow bag when opening R&D promo packs a while ago and had to move some stuff to my account bank. Might be different if I did R&D more, but most stuff I actually use comes from reputation system, fleet stores, or consoles from other ships.)

    Rather then try getting the Kelvin for multiple Fed chars after getting it on one, I've put most of my money into zen store ships. And if I hadn't been really lucky, I probably would have given up trying to get the Kelvin in the first place, I've already given up on the Freedom since that would not be my first choice of a promo ship. (On the other hand, I'm not done buying zen store ships yet, there are still ships I'm planning to buy when I've got the money to spare.) Likewise, I got the NX on one char but don't have any plans to try and get that particular ship on another char, so making it account unlock would not lose money on keys from me. It would make the ships affected more valuable to me and I'd make more of an effort to get them. (Kinda like making T6 ships level scaling, or making Romulan ships usable by Fed/KDF.) Especially once I start running out of zen store ships I really want to get.

    I've never gotten a flyable ship through Phoenix, and I don't expect I will get one in the near future. Won't stop me from trying now and then though, unless I need my dil for something else. Like reputation gear. But I'm not using real money to buy zen to buy dil to get Phoenix boxes. Also, more available ships means that people who actually want to fly them on multiple chars may need more ship slots. Or drydock slots. And possibly Ship Upgrade Tokens. So the question isn't just

    The only lockbox ships I've considered getting on multiple characters, are the old mirror ships, and those I'd buy from the exchange for EC rather then try to get them through lockboxes. And that's basically for the hull material. I mainly fly T6 ships.

    Lastly, I do think they should consider putting the Miradorn in the zen store separately for those that just want the ship and either have or don't want the other stuff. (Putting the Galaxy in the bundle makes sense in that it was Picard's ship, but I already got that ship for free, so it doesn't really add any value to me.)
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,404 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    The 6k might be justified by some as you'd likely be dumping more than that on keys to gamblebox a ship but once the ship hits the store that "exclusive" status is removed and it becomes another store ship.
    The 6k isn't FOR a ship, it's for a whole bundle.

    It's just a bit unfortunate all the bundle contents are rather old and most players who wanted it probably already have it.

    Even more unfortunate when that 6k is a 50% discount on the bundle of floor sweepings they threw together.
    True.

    I do expect they'll make a REAL Picard bundle with content from the show, after the show is aired. And that one may actually be worth buying.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 10,566 Arc User
    That will be the Picard Lockbox and R&D Infinity Promotion, because, you know they will be rare ships. ;)
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  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,593 Arc User
    I feel like we're glossing over the fact we were told these things *had* to be in lockboxes because of CBS wanting to maintain rarity etc. But now its suddenly okay because its a less popular ship and writing is on the wall for the legality of lockboxes in many territories?

    Things change. CBS finally allowed a T6 TOS Connie into the game after blocking it for many years. CBS is working with Cryptic more closely now, such as with the Discovery content.

    Pity it was executed in a way that CBS left a nasty flavor in our mouths. *glares at the R&D boxes* :s

    indeed, my TOS toon is still very frustrated. You can add to that, the kelvin ships (I like very much the kelvin movies), all are in gamble boxes.

    I stopped opening boxes (too many TRIBBLE in them), and grind ec (for ships) because of the disgust for these boxes.
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  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 1,365 Arc User
    Even if we would only get the option to send a ship away from a certain character, that would be an improvement.

    I've got too many characters right now, to the point I'm considering creating a new account and just start over with 3 or 4. I would simply delete characters but then I'd be wasting many special ships.
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  • "We are looking into the data for making lock box and phoenix stuff account wide, but..."

    so no new word on making phoenix account wide or maybe I'm to assume that Mudds Market is the answer and anything in phoenix will always be single character unlocks?
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 10,566 Arc User
    edited January 26
    They're still looking. Waldo is hard to find. :)

    Mudd's Market may not be the full answer. Look to the 'Picard' Bundle for another possibility. Seems like they are experimenting.
    Post edited by ltminns on
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  • trekkiejedigirl#9564 trekkiejedigirl Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited January 26
    I would do this for my T6 Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier, my favorite ship in the entire game, definitely.
    Love the new Klingon/Fed ship too by the way. It is another "must have" to my ship collection, lol. :) Y'all have a lovely evening! :)
  • jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,753 Arc User
    Sorry, you'll never own a lock box ship then.

    You're wrong.
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,791 Arc User
    > @foxman00 said:
    > Sadly, I think the chance of these ships becoming account unlock might be too large of a financial hit for Cryptic to take. The ships being character locked might be a necessary evil for the greater good.
    >
    > I agree with @baddmoonrizin statement expect for the trade up option for Phoenix. Dont know exactly why but something makes me feel uncomfortable when that is mentioned.

    You assume folks buying multiples of the exact same Lockbox ships is common, if its extremely rare, as it most likely is, then the tiny loss of profit will be way more then made up for in new profits from folks that were unwilling to buy Lockbox ships that were previously unwilling to do so for none account wide ships.

    In fact I've seen anyone or heard of anyone buying multiples of a single type of lockbox ship for their characters ever.
  • jagdtier44jagdtier44 Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    lordgyor wrote: »
    > @foxman00 said:
    > Sadly, I think the chance of these ships becoming account unlock might be too large of a financial hit for Cryptic to take. The ships being character locked might be a necessary evil for the greater good.
    >
    > I agree with @baddmoonrizin statement expect for the trade up option for Phoenix. Dont know exactly why but something makes me feel uncomfortable when that is mentioned.

    You assume folks buying multiples of the exact same Lockbox ships is common, if its extremely rare, as it most likely is, then the tiny loss of profit will be way more then made up for in new profits from folks that were unwilling to buy Lockbox ships that were previously unwilling to do so for none account wide ships.

    In fact I've seen anyone or heard of anyone buying multiples of a single type of lockbox ship for their characters ever.

    I'd think the only ship you might really see people having multiple of is the TOS Dread simply because of the console. I soooorta do have 2 of these >.> (though the second one came by way of me getting an epic token and sadly passing on the T'laru I always wanted for a FRIGGIN console..)
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,486 Arc User
    edited January 28
    lordgyor wrote: »
    You assume folks buying multiples of the exact same Lockbox ships is common, if its extremely rare, as it most likely is, then the tiny loss of profit will be way more then made up for in new profits from folks that were unwilling to buy Lockbox ships that were previously unwilling to do so for none account wide ships.

    In fact I've seen anyone or heard of anyone buying multiples of a single type of lockbox ship for their characters ever.
    As someone who has bought multiple copies of the same lock box ship, even I can't say how common or rare it is with 100% certainty. Nobody can really since people don't typically spout off about how many copies of a ship they have bought. If I had to guess, I would say that it is very rare though I admittedly can't prove it. I would also guess that players buying multiple copies of the same lobi ship are probably more common than lock box ships since lobi ships are way cheaper and more readily available on the exchange.

    jagdtier44 wrote: »
    I'd think the only ship you might really see people having multiple of is the TOS Dread simply because of the console. I soooorta do have 2 of these >.> (though the second one came by way of me getting an epic token and sadly passing on the T'laru I always wanted for a FRIGGIN console..)
    Epic phoenix tokens don't give you a choice of lock box ships. They give you a choice of event ships.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
    I have two t'laru although one is still boxed as the alt it was for, being an alt, can make do with the van carrier.

    I'd never drop funds on a gamblebox ship purely for a console though.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 10,566 Arc User
    Well a couple had the Wells, and Adapted Destroyers.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
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