I think of all my characters as having the permanent rank of Captain. I think of the various NPC's telling me what to do as members of some Admiral's staff.
Well, I don't think that counts as head canon, it's pretty much the official version AFAIK.
IRL it's not unheard of for an Admiral to use a Lt as a messenger. Thing is... Since the message comes from the admiral, you're not being ordered around by a Lt. You're receiving a message from the Lt, but the orders come from whichever Admiral gave the message to the Lt.
Like I posted previously, I don't think about this topic a whole lot. I've never used the term "head canon" to describe how I think or feel about something ingame, either. At least not that I can recall.
The OP pointed out some of the fluff ingame bothered him sometimes. Which I agree with. I think getting the fluffy part of the game wrong is one of the fastest ways to remove immersion. It also makes a game company look unprofessional. Especially with a subject as full of content and long lived as Star Trek. Some STO players remember hunting for artifacts from the 3rd Borg Dynasty. Yeah, it was funny at the time and still is. But it shows how the Dev Team members at the time were treating Star Trek like it was generic scifi. Rather than taking a few minutes to check one of the numerous and readily available sources.
Anyways, I've paid far too much attention to this topic over the weekend. So I'm stopping with this post.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Well, I don't think that counts as head canon, it's pretty much the official version AFAIK.
IRL it's not unheard of for an Admiral to use a Lt as a messenger. Thing is... Since the message comes from the admiral, you're not being ordered around by a Lt. You're receiving a message from the Lt, but the orders come from whichever Admiral gave the message to the Lt.
Pretty much.
Everything is ultimately being operated by Alliance Command, which includes people like Quinn. So all of your orders come from them, even if you aren't being directly told by them.
there's also the matter that sometimes a servicemembers will have limited authority over people with superior rank, good example would be that's present even in Star Trek is that the CMO of a ship will have the authority to release any crewmember up to and including the CO due to medical reasons, even though most CMO were at best commanders in the series and thus were outranked by the CO.
There's also other example but those are more complex and may not exist for Starfleet.
EDIT:My personal example from before was that I had to ask from any visitor their name and purpose of visit and I wasn't allowed to let them past the front desk of the HQ I served in without them giving that info in writing and no they couldn't pull rank on me.
Except when he was the Emergency Command Hologram.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
you know...when the doctor becomes the ECH, is he also still the EMH? and if so, does that mean he can order himself relieved from duty if he feels his judgement is medically compromised?
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Except when he was the Emergency Command Hologram.
Nah it was just a different position but he still had authority only based on position in this case the acting CO of a ship, but he wouldn't have any authority beyond that.
There's more then 1 position where you can have authority beyond your actual rank.
In fact I just said I had authority over the president of Finland (aka the highest person in the finnish military hierarchy due to the president being the commander in chief of the finnish defense force), even though I never made past private, solely due the position I had during my Service, granted that authority was extremely limited but it did exist and there wre rules we had to obey when addressing people who outranked us in that position (which was pretty much everyone but still).
Btw I tell you this because my service ended almost 2 decades ago (with an honorble discharge, Finland has compulsory military service) and I couldn't tell anything that would be classified.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
They could possibly have anticipated the level cap increases and gone with a different rank structure like:
lieutenant = lieutenant jg (yes, they use jg for the tutorial but the rank change between the tut and the game is a bit wasteful)
lt. Cmdr = full lieutenant
cmdr = lt. cmdr
captain = cmdr
rear admiral lh & uh = captain (no need for splitting at five levels instead of ten)
vice admiral and admiral = fleet captain (same reason as above)
fleet admiral = commodore
and avoided admiral ranks altogether, but hindsight is a lot clearer than foresight. And it is not like such a progression would be any more realistic either since junior officers would not be in regular command of capital ships anyway.
technically "commandore" is a flag rank being the same as rear admiral lower half, also from what I've gathered "fleet captain" is more of honorary position then and actual rank (as in it essentially has the same authority and duty as a regular captain but is considered more senior if in a group of captain ranked officers).
These days, at least in the US Navy, a "commodore" is kind of an honorary rear admiral. For whatever reason (ability, availability), an officer below the rank of admiral is given command of multiple ships or a shore office that would have normally gone to an admiral. The actual rank of commodore was changed to "rear admiral, lower half" years ago, but a captain in that situation is still addressed as "Commodore So-and-So" and gets to have an admiral's flag. I don't think they get a pay raise though.
Source: my father, 20-year retired USN engineering duty officer.
Honestly I would have divorsed the whole rank system from the levels and made it part of the story rather then indication of level.
That said personally I consider my character have temporary promotion to her current rank and that she would be reduced to more proper rank once the current crisis has passed. That said it would be lovely if they wrote the missions in such a way that people under the rank of captain would understand that you'll most likely outrank them and act accordingly.
Back when the story arcs were level-locked, I suggested this:
Tutorial level: lieutenant commander
Klingon War missions: commander
Afterwards: captain
It's still a remarkably fast progression, it's just not senior cadet to Fleet frakking Admiral in 18 months the way the Delta Recruit storyline claimed.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
It's still a remarkably fast progression, it's just not senior cadet to Fleet frakking Admiral in 18 months the way the Delta Recruit storyline claimed.
The romulan PC goes from a civilian to Fleet Admiral in the same or shorter time.
I've always take it as just another way in which the Player Character is totally pure cosmic awesome.
Like I posted previously, I don't think about this topic a whole lot. I've never used the term "head canon" to describe how I think or feel about something ingame, either. At least not that I can recall.
The OP pointed out some of the fluff ingame bothered him sometimes. Which I agree with. I think getting the fluffy part of the game wrong is one of the fastest ways to remove immersion. It also makes a game company look unprofessional. Especially with a subject as full of content and long lived as Star Trek. Some STO players remember hunting for artifacts from the 3rd Borg Dynasty. Yeah, it was funny at the time and still is. But it shows how the Dev Team members at the time were treating Star Trek like it was generic scifi. Rather than taking a few minutes to check one of the numerous and readily available sources.
Anyways, I've paid far too much attention to this topic over the weekend. So I'm stopping with this post.
The third Borg Dynasty came about because the old exploration clusters had text written by a computer program, and the devs simply didn't proofread it enough. The devs wrote a mission text outline then fed lists of parameters into the program and it spit out finished mission text that was occasionally nonsensical.
It would be nice to see more ordering your BOFFs to take some action during story missions, though.
The problem is - Your Boffs are what are used for what little story/sitution exosition there is between you killing waves of NPCs/NPC Starships - so the dialogue needs to tell biothe the story and what you need to do next, so yeah, the Boffs often make 'suggestions that your character should, but they don't want to make your characters reply in the 'click to continue' botton a paragraph or longer; so again, you Boff says everything and you usually just agree and say 'do it' (or even less).
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
It's still a remarkably fast progression, it's just not senior cadet to Fleet frakking Admiral in 18 months the way the Delta Recruit storyline claimed.
The romulan PC goes from a civilian to Fleet Admiral in the same or shorter time.
I've always take it as just another way in which the Player Character is totally pure cosmic awesome.
The Romulan player character has the ground floor advantage instead of advancing though an already filled and functioning rank structure so makes sense. Of course, the other powers are going though massive expansions, to the point that they are quickly overhauling centuries-old hulls to send into active battle so I suppose something similar applies to them too.
Also, being a Commodore has uniform perks. You get a brimmed cap with anchors on it, a monacle, an ascot, and a jacket with a lot of gold buttons and braiding on the sleeves.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
To put things into perspective, Admiral Quinn is the operational commander for the Beta Quadrant. He is what is referred to as a Fleet Admiral, which is a role and not an actual Rank while Tuvok would be Fleet Admiral of the Delta Quadrant. To further complicate things, Rank is only used to denote level of authority among those in the current environment. A Captain, which is also a role and not an official Rank, can override mission parameters issued by those of a higher Rank - an Admiral can order a Commander to perform a mission but cannot direct the actions taken by the Team.
To make things even harder to understand. in times of Peace, any and all citizens (civilian is a military term used to denote a non-combatant) completely out Rank all military personnel and can give orders even to Admirals. Starfleet is a citizen organization. This makes most Federation citizens above Starfleet officers in station. However, any Starfleet officer lower in Rank must still respect the chain of the command - or the Brig for you. This is why Stamets drove me nuts, so to speak. He showed a complete lack of respect for my authority and station.
"Victory is not determined by whose armies are strongest. It is determined by who is left standing." - Napoléon
To put things into perspective, Admiral Quinn is the operational commander for the Beta Quadrant. He is what is referred to as a Fleet Admiral, which is a role and not an actual Rank while Tuvok would be Fleet Admiral of the Delta Quadrant. To further complicate things, Rank is only used to denote level of authority among those in the current environment. A Captain, which is also a role and not an official Rank, can override mission parameters issued by those of a higher Rank - an Admiral can order a Commander to perform a mission but cannot direct the actions taken by the Team.
To make things even harder to understand. in times of Peace, any and all citizens (civilian is a military term used to denote a non-combatant) completely out Rank all military personnel and can give orders even to Admirals. Starfleet is a citizen organization. This makes most Federation citizens above Starfleet officers in station. However, any Starfleet officer lower in Rank must still respect the chain of the command - or the Brig for you. This is why Stamets drove me nuts, so to speak. He showed a complete lack of respect for my authority and station.
Sure some good points.
As far as Stamens is concerned the first season of Discovery gave me the impression that his whole Star Fleet career was more driven by the love for his work (spore drive) than the actual service within Star Fleet. Perhaps this hinders him a bit to be any model officer/member of this organization. Among the other series I recall more than one occasion where people became part of it for other reasons than actually becoming part of it.
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To put things into perspective, Admiral Quinn is the operational commander for the Beta Quadrant. He is what is referred to as a Fleet Admiral, which is a role and not an actual Rank while Tuvok would be Fleet Admiral of the Delta Quadrant.
Quinn is the operational commander of Starfleet as a whole. Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma. Tuvok was in charge of Operation Delta Rising, due to his past experience in the DQ, but he still takes orders from Quinn.
Starfleet is a military organization, and explicitly referred to as such several times in the series.
Captain is a role. It is an adjective used to describe the actions performed by an officer. An XO can Captain a vessel, so can a leftenant or any other subordinate. It is most often used to describe the commanding officer of a given vessel or situation. You don't make the Rank of Captain - rank includes a pay increase, you achieve the Captain status and are given a leadership role. Also, you will not achieve "Captain" unless there is a vessel for you to assume command of. No vessel, no command.
No, Starfleet is a citizen organization. The United Federation of Planets falls under the purview of a Mandate and universal governance. This does not allow for the creation of an organized military. This is also quoted by Roddenberry, "Starfleet is more like a Coast Guard than an army." Coast Guards' are organized citizen defense force(s). They are not answerable to any government authority. Universal or otherwise.
Additionally, there is no actual fleet admiralty. What it refers to is a theater commander. Quinn is the Beta theater commander. There are five such Admirals that sit on a bench and oversee the functions of Starfleet. He is not the sole authority but he does not answer to the President either.
"Victory is not determined by whose armies are strongest. It is determined by who is left standing." - Napoléon
I have also said for a long time, how come the npc talks like THEY are doing the task when WE are. Menial tasks being done by superior officers. BACKWARDS! LOL. EX Uneasy Allies, Sela is talking like she is looking up all the data and unlock codes for the door when she isnt soo much as lifting a fingernail to even try. LOL
I have also said for a long time, how come the npc talks like THEY are doing the task when WE are. Menial tasks being done by superior officers. BACKWARDS! LOL. EX Uneasy Allies, Sela is talking like she is looking up all the data and unlock codes for the door when she isnt soo much as lifting a fingernail to even try. LOL
Sela is really not a good example. She's pretty well portrayed as the type to take credit for others work and blame them when she messes up.
Um i was trying to be short and sweet with one who came to mind as i typed that, however, I personally have a list about 10 pages long of missions where boffs should of been sent to do something in your place And you were treated like an underling your not.
Captain is a role. It is an adjective used to describe the actions performed by an officer. An XO can Captain a vessel, so can a leftenant or any other subordinate. It is most often used to describe the commanding officer of a given vessel or situation. You don't make the Rank of Captain - rank includes a pay increase, you achieve the Captain status and are given a leadership role. Also, you will not achieve "Captain" unless there is a vessel for you to assume command of. No vessel, no command.
Captain is an actual rank, both in Starfleet and in quite a lot of different navies around the world. It's the equivalent of Colonel.
Now, is an officer in command of a ship usually called Captain? Yes, though those that do not actually have the rank should be called Commanding Officer (or C.O.).
No, Starfleet is a citizen organization. The United Federation of Planets falls under the purview of a Mandate and universal governance. This does not allow for the creation of an organized military. This is also quoted by Roddenberry, "Starfleet is more like a Coast Guard than an army." Coast Guards' are organized citizen defense force(s). They are not answerable to any government authority. Universal or otherwise.
The President of UFP have directing authority over Starfleet, as seen multiple times in DS9. It was also during an episode of DS9, iirc, that the President hold the position of Commander in Chief of Starfleet.
So, yeah. They are answerable to one Goverment: their own.
Additionally, there is no actual fleet admiralty. What it refers to is a theater commander. Quinn is the Beta theater commander. There are five such Admirals that sit on a bench and oversee the functions of Starfleet. He is not the sole authority but he does not answer to the President either.
As shown in TNG, there's not such thing as a "theater commander", but there are several "sector commander" (20ish something, iirc), which answer to Starfleet Command (comprised of the Commander in Chief, the Chief of Staff and the Chief of Starfleet Operations), which in turn answer to the President of the United Federation of Planets.
In game, this is reflected in Admiral Quinn being the Commander in Chief of Earth Spacedock and part of Starfleet Command. According to STO Wiki, Quinn's role is not that of Commander in Chief of Starfleet. This probably means that other admirals are part of Starfleet Command, which in turn seems to indicate that there are more than 3 people in Starfleet Command, as opposed in what's seen in the tv-shows and movies.
We are also yet to encounter the real CiC.
That said, I wouldn't mind being able to play a character that doesn't takes orders from everyone. For better or for worse, our characters get to the point where they do hold the Fleet Admiral rank. And as absurd as it is, that should be reflected a little more in game.
Post edited by jennycolvin on
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
I have also said for a long time, how come the npc talks like THEY are doing the task when WE are. Menial tasks being done by superior officers. BACKWARDS! LOL. EX Uneasy Allies, Sela is talking like she is looking up all the data and unlock codes for the door when she isnt soo much as lifting a fingernail to even try. LOL
Sela is really not a good example. She's pretty well portrayed as the type to take credit for others work and blame them when she messes up.
Worf does the same thing in "Sphere of Influence", most of the time when the player character scans or explores things Worf comes up with "I am reading …" or other Worf-centric dialog instead of the PC saying something about the readings or whatever and Worf responding to it. That is the problem with NPC-only voice acting instead of the more expensive option of having several voices available for the player to read lines like SWTOR has, it takes a totally different writing style than a TV show or other conventional storytelling style would.
I have also said for a long time, how come the npc talks like THEY are doing the task when WE are. Menial tasks being done by superior officers. BACKWARDS! LOL. EX Uneasy Allies, Sela is talking like she is looking up all the data and unlock codes for the door when she isnt soo much as lifting a fingernail to even try. LOL
They are doing the task, you are commanding them to do it when you click the button. That seems like an animation bug involving Sela.
Personally, I talk when it comes to my speaking parts as a character in the missions. Besides if I did get VO, what if I do not like the voice actor doing it? Thanks.
I have also said for a long time, how come the npc talks like THEY are doing the task when WE are. Menial tasks being done by superior officers. BACKWARDS! LOL. EX Uneasy Allies, Sela is talking like she is looking up all the data and unlock codes for the door when she isnt soo much as lifting a fingernail to even try. LOL
Sela is really not a good example. She's pretty well portrayed as the type to take credit for others work and blame them when she messes up.
Worf does the same thing in "Sphere of Influence", most of the time when the player character scans or explores things Worf comes up with "I am reading …" or other Worf-centric dialog instead of the PC saying something about the readings or whatever and Worf responding to it. That is the problem with NPC-only voice acting instead of the more expensive option of having several voices available for the player to read lines like SWTOR has, it takes a totally different writing style than a TV show or other conventional storytelling style would.
STO like many other games with custom player character, does not presume to assign any particular predefined voice (or selection of voices) to the player, leaving it up to the player's imagination to decide what their character thinks about the storyline. This is a style choice that some players will appreciate for leaving them free to roleplay their character as they wish without having words put in their mouths, while others will deride as a "featureless protagonist." It's really a matter of opinion.
I have also said for a long time, how come the npc talks like THEY are doing the task when WE are. Menial tasks being done by superior officers. BACKWARDS! LOL. EX Uneasy Allies, Sela is talking like she is looking up all the data and unlock codes for the door when she isnt soo much as lifting a fingernail to even try. LOL
Sela is really not a good example. She's pretty well portrayed as the type to take credit for others work and blame them when she messes up.
Worf does the same thing in "Sphere of Influence", most of the time when the player character scans or explores things Worf comes up with "I am reading …" or other Worf-centric dialog instead of the PC saying something about the readings or whatever and Worf responding to it. That is the problem with NPC-only voice acting instead of the more expensive option of having several voices available for the player to read lines like SWTOR has, it takes a totally different writing style than a TV show or other conventional storytelling style would.
STO like many other games with custom player character, does not presume to assign any particular predefined voice (or selection of voices) to the player, leaving it up to the player's imagination to decide what their character thinks about the storyline. This is a style choice that some players will appreciate for leaving them free to roleplay their character as they wish without having words put in their mouths, while others will deride as a "featureless protagonist." It's really a matter of opinion.
True. I brought up the player voice thing only in reference to the difference in how dialog is scripted between the two styles, the main point was that when you have NPC-only voice acting the dialog has to be written differently to avoid the voice actor character from trampling the player character. A non-dialog example of the same thing is during the 'blow the door off' cutscene Warf is definitely the main character, and really the player is only supporting cast from a writing style viewpoint in that whole episode.
It is not a dealbreaker or anything, but it is a bit annoying sometimes so I see Tomilak's and Foxrockssocks's point.
I have also said for a long time, how come the npc talks like THEY are doing the task when WE are. Menial tasks being done by superior officers. BACKWARDS! LOL. EX Uneasy Allies, Sela is talking like she is looking up all the data and unlock codes for the door when she isnt soo much as lifting a fingernail to even try. LOL
Sela is really not a good example. She's pretty well portrayed as the type to take credit for others work and blame them when she messes up.
Worf does the same thing in "Sphere of Influence", most of the time when the player character scans or explores things Worf comes up with "I am reading …" or other Worf-centric dialog instead of the PC saying something about the readings or whatever and Worf responding to it. That is the problem with NPC-only voice acting instead of the more expensive option of having several voices available for the player to read lines like SWTOR has, it takes a totally different writing style than a TV show or other conventional storytelling style would.
STO like many other games with custom player character, does not presume to assign any particular predefined voice (or selection of voices) to the player, leaving it up to the player's imagination to decide what their character thinks about the storyline. This is a style choice that some players will appreciate for leaving them free to roleplay their character as they wish without having words put in their mouths, while others will deride as a "featureless protagonist." It's really a matter of opinion.
True. I brought up the player voice thing only in reference to the difference in how dialog is scripted between the two styles, the main point was that when you have NPC-only voice acting the dialog has to be written differently to avoid the voice actor character from trampling the player character. A non-dialog example of the same thing is during the 'blow the door off' cutscene Warf is definitely the main character, and really the player is only supporting cast from a writing style viewpoint in that whole episode.
Yes, but do remember this is also a vidoegame. The NPCs aren't there just for plot exposition, they must give information to the player on how to progress in the game. While I would personally enjoy a mission that left it up to the player to figure out for themselves what is required to proceed, that's not STO's style so having an NPC tell the player they need to 'blow the door off' is more or less required.
Similarly, the player is often placed in the role of defending some NPC that's doing important plot stuff, because this is a combat game and what is important in the story isn't always important in gameplay. I would like to see a mission one of these days in which the NPCs defend me while I solve puzzles for a change, though I don't see that as very likely to happen.
It would not matter what rank I was at if someone needed help I'd help. It would not matter if I was a Elite fleet Elite admiral grand marshal of the whole Federation insert some super high rank here or petty officer insert lowest rank here. It is about right and wrong if someone asks for help on something with reason i'll help. Depending what it is they are asking. Like helping injured people or whatever yeah i'll help.
To put things into perspective, Admiral Quinn is the operational commander for the Beta Quadrant. He is what is referred to as a Fleet Admiral, which is a role and not an actual Rank while Tuvok would be Fleet Admiral of the Delta Quadrant.
Quinn is the operational commander of Starfleet as a whole. Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma. Tuvok was in charge of Operation Delta Rising, due to his past experience in the DQ, but he still takes orders from Quinn.
Starfleet is a military organization, and explicitly referred to as such several times in the series.
Captain is a role. It is an adjective used to describe the actions performed by an officer. An XO can Captain a vessel, so can a leftenant or any other subordinate. It is most often used to describe the commanding officer of a given vessel or situation. You don't make the Rank of Captain - rank includes a pay increase, you achieve the Captain status and are given a leadership role. Also, you will not achieve "Captain" unless there is a vessel for you to assume command of. No vessel, no command.
No, Starfleet is a citizen organization. The United Federation of Planets falls under the purview of a Mandate and universal governance. This does not allow for the creation of an organized military. This is also quoted by Roddenberry, "Starfleet is more like a Coast Guard than an army." Coast Guards' are organized citizen defense force(s). They are not answerable to any government authority. Universal or otherwise.
Additionally, there is no actual fleet admiralty. What it refers to is a theater commander. Quinn is the Beta theater commander. There are five such Admirals that sit on a bench and oversee the functions of Starfleet. He is not the sole authority but he does not answer to the President either.
As iterated before by others, Captain is a rank. It is a commissioned officer rank. Even though the UFP doesn't really use currency on some or most of their worlds, a rank isn't solely based on pay increase. When you get promoted, you are making rank to the next level. With that comes more responsibilities, but also more authority. And not all captains command a ship, or a company of soldiers. Doctors in the US Army for example, run the ranks from captain, to majors, Lt. Colonel, to full birds(Colonels) from what I've come across during my time in service. I imagine it's the same way with the other branches of the military as well. Also, a leadership role isn't reserved for just captains. It starts far lower than that.
Roddenberry was an idiot regarding this. A laughable idiot. The Coast Guard is a branch of the United States military. Just as the National Guard is part of the United States military. The Coast Guard does answer to the government's authority. They are part of Dept. of Homeland Security, but the President has the authority(as Commander in Chief), to move assets and resources from the Coast Guard to the Navy. Look up Titles 10 and 14 of the United States Code, which explicitly states and confirms the Coast Guard(which has existed since 1790, and been in every war since then) as a military branch. Just like the other branches, you go to MEPS(Military Entry Processing Station) after visiting with a recruiter and filling out the paperwork. If you pass, you take the oath, and get shunted to a station to train, and if you pass through all of that, you get your orders and duty station. And no, I didn't wikipedia this.
Anyone who says Starfleet isn't a military, is clinging way too hard to blissful and hopeful ignorance at the cost of logic and facts.
Comments
IRL it's not unheard of for an Admiral to use a Lt as a messenger. Thing is... Since the message comes from the admiral, you're not being ordered around by a Lt. You're receiving a message from the Lt, but the orders come from whichever Admiral gave the message to the Lt.
My character Tsin'xing
The OP pointed out some of the fluff ingame bothered him sometimes. Which I agree with. I think getting the fluffy part of the game wrong is one of the fastest ways to remove immersion. It also makes a game company look unprofessional. Especially with a subject as full of content and long lived as Star Trek. Some STO players remember hunting for artifacts from the 3rd Borg Dynasty. Yeah, it was funny at the time and still is. But it shows how the Dev Team members at the time were treating Star Trek like it was generic scifi. Rather than taking a few minutes to check one of the numerous and readily available sources.
Anyways, I've paid far too much attention to this topic over the weekend. So I'm stopping with this post.
there's also the matter that sometimes a servicemembers will have limited authority over people with superior rank, good example would be that's present even in Star Trek is that the CMO of a ship will have the authority to release any crewmember up to and including the CO due to medical reasons, even though most CMO were at best commanders in the series and thus were outranked by the CO.
There's also other example but those are more complex and may not exist for Starfleet.
EDIT:My personal example from before was that I had to ask from any visitor their name and purpose of visit and I wasn't allowed to let them past the front desk of the HQ I served in without them giving that info in writing and no they couldn't pull rank on me.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
There's more then 1 position where you can have authority beyond your actual rank.
In fact I just said I had authority over the president of Finland (aka the highest person in the finnish military hierarchy due to the president being the commander in chief of the finnish defense force), even though I never made past private, solely due the position I had during my Service, granted that authority was extremely limited but it did exist and there wre rules we had to obey when addressing people who outranked us in that position (which was pretty much everyone but still).
Btw I tell you this because my service ended almost 2 decades ago (with an honorble discharge, Finland has compulsory military service) and I couldn't tell anything that would be classified.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Source: my father, 20-year retired USN engineering duty officer.
Back when the story arcs were level-locked, I suggested this:
It's still a remarkably fast progression, it's just not senior cadet to Fleet frakking Admiral in 18 months the way the Delta Recruit storyline claimed.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I've always take it as just another way in which the Player Character is totally pure cosmic awesome.
My character Tsin'xing
The problem is - Your Boffs are what are used for what little story/sitution exosition there is between you killing waves of NPCs/NPC Starships - so the dialogue needs to tell biothe the story and what you need to do next, so yeah, the Boffs often make 'suggestions that your character should, but they don't want to make your characters reply in the 'click to continue' botton a paragraph or longer; so again, you Boff says everything and you usually just agree and say 'do it' (or even less).
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
The Romulan player character has the ground floor advantage instead of advancing though an already filled and functioning rank structure so makes sense. Of course, the other powers are going though massive expansions, to the point that they are quickly overhauling centuries-old hulls to send into active battle so I suppose something similar applies to them too.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Zathras have very sad life, but will probably have very sad death so at least there is symmetry.
To make things even harder to understand. in times of Peace, any and all citizens (civilian is a military term used to denote a non-combatant) completely out Rank all military personnel and can give orders even to Admirals. Starfleet is a citizen organization. This makes most Federation citizens above Starfleet officers in station. However, any Starfleet officer lower in Rank must still respect the chain of the command - or the Brig for you. This is why Stamets drove me nuts, so to speak. He showed a complete lack of respect for my authority and station.
Sure some good points.
As far as Stamens is concerned the first season of Discovery gave me the impression that his whole Star Fleet career was more driven by the love for his work (spore drive) than the actual service within Star Fleet. Perhaps this hinders him a bit to be any model officer/member of this organization. Among the other series I recall more than one occasion where people became part of it for other reasons than actually becoming part of it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Captain is a role. It is an adjective used to describe the actions performed by an officer. An XO can Captain a vessel, so can a leftenant or any other subordinate. It is most often used to describe the commanding officer of a given vessel or situation. You don't make the Rank of Captain - rank includes a pay increase, you achieve the Captain status and are given a leadership role. Also, you will not achieve "Captain" unless there is a vessel for you to assume command of. No vessel, no command.
No, Starfleet is a citizen organization. The United Federation of Planets falls under the purview of a Mandate and universal governance. This does not allow for the creation of an organized military. This is also quoted by Roddenberry, "Starfleet is more like a Coast Guard than an army." Coast Guards' are organized citizen defense force(s). They are not answerable to any government authority. Universal or otherwise.
Additionally, there is no actual fleet admiralty. What it refers to is a theater commander. Quinn is the Beta theater commander. There are five such Admirals that sit on a bench and oversee the functions of Starfleet. He is not the sole authority but he does not answer to the President either.
Sela is really not a good example. She's pretty well portrayed as the type to take credit for others work and blame them when she messes up.
Now, is an officer in command of a ship usually called Captain? Yes, though those that do not actually have the rank should be called Commanding Officer (or C.O.).
The President of UFP have directing authority over Starfleet, as seen multiple times in DS9. It was also during an episode of DS9, iirc, that the President hold the position of Commander in Chief of Starfleet.
So, yeah. They are answerable to one Goverment: their own.
As shown in TNG, there's not such thing as a "theater commander", but there are several "sector commander" (20ish something, iirc), which answer to Starfleet Command (comprised of the Commander in Chief, the Chief of Staff and the Chief of Starfleet Operations), which in turn answer to the President of the United Federation of Planets.
In game, this is reflected in Admiral Quinn being the Commander in Chief of Earth Spacedock and part of Starfleet Command. According to STO Wiki, Quinn's role is not that of Commander in Chief of Starfleet. This probably means that other admirals are part of Starfleet Command, which in turn seems to indicate that there are more than 3 people in Starfleet Command, as opposed in what's seen in the tv-shows and movies.
We are also yet to encounter the real CiC.
That said, I wouldn't mind being able to play a character that doesn't takes orders from everyone. For better or for worse, our characters get to the point where they do hold the Fleet Admiral rank. And as absurd as it is, that should be reflected a little more in game.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Worf does the same thing in "Sphere of Influence", most of the time when the player character scans or explores things Worf comes up with "I am reading …" or other Worf-centric dialog instead of the PC saying something about the readings or whatever and Worf responding to it. That is the problem with NPC-only voice acting instead of the more expensive option of having several voices available for the player to read lines like SWTOR has, it takes a totally different writing style than a TV show or other conventional storytelling style would.
They are doing the task, you are commanding them to do it when you click the button. That seems like an animation bug involving Sela.
True. I brought up the player voice thing only in reference to the difference in how dialog is scripted between the two styles, the main point was that when you have NPC-only voice acting the dialog has to be written differently to avoid the voice actor character from trampling the player character. A non-dialog example of the same thing is during the 'blow the door off' cutscene Warf is definitely the main character, and really the player is only supporting cast from a writing style viewpoint in that whole episode.
It is not a dealbreaker or anything, but it is a bit annoying sometimes so I see Tomilak's and Foxrockssocks's point.
Similarly, the player is often placed in the role of defending some NPC that's doing important plot stuff, because this is a combat game and what is important in the story isn't always important in gameplay. I would like to see a mission one of these days in which the NPCs defend me while I solve puzzles for a change, though I don't see that as very likely to happen.
As iterated before by others, Captain is a rank. It is a commissioned officer rank. Even though the UFP doesn't really use currency on some or most of their worlds, a rank isn't solely based on pay increase. When you get promoted, you are making rank to the next level. With that comes more responsibilities, but also more authority. And not all captains command a ship, or a company of soldiers. Doctors in the US Army for example, run the ranks from captain, to majors, Lt. Colonel, to full birds(Colonels) from what I've come across during my time in service. I imagine it's the same way with the other branches of the military as well. Also, a leadership role isn't reserved for just captains. It starts far lower than that.
Roddenberry was an idiot regarding this. A laughable idiot. The Coast Guard is a branch of the United States military. Just as the National Guard is part of the United States military. The Coast Guard does answer to the government's authority. They are part of Dept. of Homeland Security, but the President has the authority(as Commander in Chief), to move assets and resources from the Coast Guard to the Navy. Look up Titles 10 and 14 of the United States Code, which explicitly states and confirms the Coast Guard(which has existed since 1790, and been in every war since then) as a military branch. Just like the other branches, you go to MEPS(Military Entry Processing Station) after visiting with a recruiter and filling out the paperwork. If you pass, you take the oath, and get shunted to a station to train, and if you pass through all of that, you get your orders and duty station. And no, I didn't wikipedia this.
Anyone who says Starfleet isn't a military, is clinging way too hard to blissful and hopeful ignorance at the cost of logic and facts.
https://www.uscg.mil/
Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Your intellect-fu is weak with this argument.