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  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    edited March 28
    (Response to moderated comments removed. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • badgerpants999badgerpants999 Member Posts: 240 Arc User
    Just one additional Question. Is Gold Pressed Latinum EVER going to be relevant? I only ask because it, GPL, is just a joke in the game. What's supposed to be the most valuable substance in existence in Star Trek has no functional value in STO. Every other currency in game can be used to purchase something that improves your gaming experience. You can buy weapons, armor, starships, everything useful in Star Trek online can be bought with almost any currency. Except Gold Pressed Latinum.

    GPL is only useful for temporary cosmetic alterations, you put a hologram around yourself or your ship, which drops as soon as you enter combat. Or you can buy a trophy to stick on your wall, or just dump it in the middle of your mess hall.

    Every currency EXCEPT GPL can be used to enhance your gaming experience. Why is this the only exception and will that ever change?
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,926 Arc User
    edited March 28
    Context is your friend. The new faction start, for a start, is an alternative starting experience making use of one elaborated mission to bring a new backstory to their characters. There's the challenge of hooking this up on the backend (big effort) and challenge of developing new assets for it but we know (from comments) that was a bit of a push right after ViL. You can also argue that there were secondary consequences to that effort through bugs of unprecedented magnitude cropping up in the tailor and Foundry (they were rushing to meet AoD). Ie. that this wasn't a simple linear increase in content development for which improvements are unnecessary to consider, there may have been some strain to meet this goal.
    Starting experiences are always the hardest to do since they have to be perfectly designed to inform players of all the game's basic functions. Cryptic has talked about this before, but tutorials are THE single hardest piece of content to make. And the bugs aren't particularly different from any other expansion release. Remember all the bugs that cropped up with AoY?
    They did it, but by no means does this mean (per your ever evolving point of contradiction) that the STO team is working at a higher rate of development because it was also coupled with a relative drought in narrative content between ViL and AoD (there was no lead-in mission as we've seen with previous arcs) and other measures taken to economize but at some direct trade-offs to episode depth and story quality. Ie. "6 new missions" don't describe what those missions entail and how much went into their creation. AoD has effectively built itself from the DSC interior set with Pahvo, SFA, and FED tutorial colony standing as the major points of departure. A bit more went into the episodes comprising the arc that lead to ViL from objective sets to environment design. Notably, one of the two AoD missions was a one map rehash of the accompanying TFO. The two that accompanied Mirror of Discovery likewise opted for simpler mission structures (almost archetypal, excepting for Westin's amazing cutscene work and the Killy bossfight) and could have been written as a single episode (comparable in structure to Home in ViL.) The innovation is the punctuation, which I think worked out fine but it does complicate how you consider this release (could be one, but elaborated a bit to two.) Cryptic may be hitting the nominal expectations for new episodes every few months (at the longer side of "few" but not completely out of the norm) but there are some compromises being made to maintain that rate of development which would not be necessary if the team wasn't working under a bit more limitation (in line with Kael's comment but potentially also shifting content priorities or long-term investments we don't know about yet.)
    My point has been the same since the begging, there is nothing "evolving" about it.

    And there was no real lead in mission between the Temporal Cold war to the Tzenkethi arc either, the first mission had us finding a plant the Tzenkethi had nuked, with little to transition between the Temporal Cold War to this new plot. This is to be expected since, as Cryptic has talked about, the overall STO narrative, that being the Iconian's machinations, is over. The Temporal Cold War was the last bit of fallout from the Iconian War. And Cryptic has mentioned that future arcs were going to be less connected since they aren't going to do some big "super Iconians"or w/e to be behind everything else they make up from that point on. Cryptic has stated for years now that all the post Iconian War story arcs are going to be loosely connected, if at all, because the meta-narrative was the Iconians, and that is over.

    I'm also not really sure where you are getting the "simple" mission thing from. They are just as complex as any other mission in the game, most of which aren't particularly extravagant since the situation doesn't demand it. Your argument also false comapres AoD and MoD, two separate arcs that only have two missions each, to the Tzenkethi arc, which is one arc with 8 missions in it. OFC a completed 8 mission arc is going to have more variance then two arcs that have 1/4 the content.
    And what about "5 new TFO's?" Well, we often see this number over the span of two seasons. But, that isn't often achieved through the measures we saw for Peril over Pahvo (and context: at this time last year we had a new FE, not a TFO reskin.) It's not an increase in content frequency if the number remains within statistical limits and additional conservation steps are taken to achieve it. Ditto ship releases, they've scaled back on the old c-store multifaction pack (requiem for ROM) to focus on single releases (often through stand-alone boxes). The last major lock box also lacked a Lobi accompaniment (there was just the Styx). More economical, also doesn't point to a major uptick in content sufficient to make your point.
    Entirely incorrect. Most arcs don't even have 5 TFOs to begin with
    -ViL = 1
    -Tzenkethi = 4
    -Competitive = 3
    -AoY = 3
    -MU = 2
    -Iconian War = 3
    -Delta Rising = 3
    -Undine = 3
    -Voth = 2
    I could go on, but the only arc to have as many TFOs as we are getting with Discovery is the Borg arc, which has 8, and it only has 8 because they split the ground and space portions.

    As for ships, we have seen the Discovery pack which had like 5 new ships in it. This idea that all they are doing is single releases is, again, demonstrably false.
    And to be absolutely clear: I think these are natural development pressures (recently increased due to stated circumstances) and the response is to further accommodate for them and make more general improvements (content limitations also apply under ideal circumstances.)

    Even if we're looking at comments re. team size as reflective of a very short-term dip for which Cryptic has pulled up from...the production lag time for content means that what we're seeing around this time is probably the product of that dip and even if the next major release is going to absolutely overshoot customary expectations the point stands that there are better ways for Cryptic to economize in future and further ways of improving player engagement through low cost, low effort mechanics such as I explained. Even if these aren't life or death considerations now its worth pursuing further innovations of format as indicated by what some Foundry authors achieved (learn from principles and experiment with mechanics.) Ie. no matter the quibbling re. exact numbers and internal production pipelines and at what capacity their operating now the point stands.

    PS. Rise of Discovery is in May, not April. We have a new event next month (Apostate). Here's hoping but we'll have to see what it entails.
    Well, the problem with this argument is that there is demonstrably no such dip. As for your solutions, the problem with those is that they aren't solutions, they are problems themselves.

    You talked previously talked about reusing, and editing, existing interiors for things like ships to try to make them feel different. The problem is that no matter how much you rearrange the furniture, or spruce up the lighting, pretty much any player can spot that you are reusing the same space/tile set, resulting in the "Skyrim problem" where everything starts to feel the same since you can spot where each part of the place you are in now was used previously.

    This has a knock on affect with the narrative, since the unique pieces Cryptic makes for all these new missions make sense given the context of these unique missions, and thus they can go further with the narrative because everything they have is built specifically for that narrative. However, if you start trying to reuse assets you have to de-contextualize the scenario to be less specific, to make the reuse of said pieces seem plausible. This results in less specific, and thus, less complex, narratives since you are limited by the amount of justifications you have to make for why all of these things that were originally made for other scenarios are now in use here, another scenario entirely.

    Furthermore, the idea of adding text only dialog options only further diminishes the overall quality of the product because it creates an inconsistency with the rest of the game, where everything that can be voiced is voiced. This sort of inconsistency just makes the game look more and more like some crowd funded indie project, instead of an officially published game. Not to mention the sheer number of different options the devs would have to provide to appease every single possible person's role-play option would mean they would have to create mammoth lists of dialog options, or else just give most players the finger by not giving them an option. In this sort of scenario its better to not have anything at all, and just let the player make up whatever they want, rather then give them an option, and make them feel like they are limited to whatever handful of options the devs present, since it likely won't include the option they want.

    The problem with these kinds of suggestions is that they ultimately, as you point out yourself, describe Foundry content. But feeling like Foundry content isn't really a good thing because Foundry content looks, feels, and has the consistency of, something put into a blender. Because that is ultimately what it all was, a bunch of assets made for specific scenarios thrown into a blender to assemble some shambling Frankenstein monster of a mission.

    Could Cryptic do that to more easy produce content? Yes, easily, but that sort of content is generally what most people try to move away from, since most people don't really like it(hence, again, why UGC stuff isn't very popular in pretty much every game except those that directly cater to said niche)

    What you describe really isn't a way forwards. It's more a way backwards to the game's early day, resembling the pre-revamped story arcs, and everything people hated about those.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,926 Arc User
    edited March 28
    (Response to moderated comments removed. - BMR)
    Gamma quadrant was a desolate wasteland when it arrived and has no reason to visit once you slog through the missions. (Remember when it came out and folk said remember delta expansion, wait for the 2nd half and all we got was a single episode with a huge gap in plot between it and the previous ones not to mention the crappy fallback of we all live happily ever after
    What huge gap in the plot? The previous mission ends with Garak triggering the Hur'q device on Empersa, causing all the Hur'q to swarm there, with a mention that we need to get everyone over there, and the next mission has us, with all of our allies, heading to Empersa to stop the Hur'q.
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • jagdtier44jagdtier44 Member Posts: 218 Arc User
    So ROD is the final season of Discovery? Just kinda guessing by the list of seasons than the 'Discovery is coming to a close"?

    I mean honestly.. if it is than thank god, I don't particularly dislike Discovery (as I've never watched it) but I detest cryptic ignoring 50% of its game because of it and I'll be friggin GLAD to see it go.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,167 Arc User
    edited March 28
    (Response to moderated comments removed. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,926 Arc User
    edited March 28
    danqueller wrote: »
    That is a very erroneous statement, since I hope the fact that I opened with it indicates that there are, in fact, people who do care about ship interiors.
    The problem with ship interiors is that, on top of the GENERAL game population not caring about them, there is nothing to logically do with them.

    Specifically speaking, ship interiors are largely facilities like bedrooms, restrooms, counsler's offices, and other such basic faculties needed/used for every day life on a starships. There is nothing particularly "functional" about them from a game perspective. And what little functionality they would have is already covered by the DOFF assignments one finds in the ship interiors such as ordering medical staff to treat wounds, or have the ship's counsel set a counseling session for a crew member.

    Besides that, ship interiors consist of the mechanical parts needed to keep a ship in operation such as the warp core, and like the above, there is very little for a player to do there that makes sense within the overall gameplay. And, much like the above, what logical things there are to do there, like performing diagnostics and the such on the weapons/warp core, are already covered by the DOFF missions one can find there.

    Even if many of those weren't doff missions ,but in-game activities, they would be simple things like "play the omega molecule game to re-balance the warp core's energy mix" or "play the isoliner chip mini-game to route more power to the weapons" and other such trivial things.

    The only thing one really could do with them is try to turn ship interiors into a mini-version of the Sims, where you have to constantly manage your ship NPCs to keep them happy to ensure you get the best bonuses or w/e, but I can already see the outcry that could come from that as many people HATE feeling like they have to babysit a number of NPCs.

    Ship interiors really only served a purpose on the TV shows because they needed places for the actors to stand around and talk. But in a video game, that is more easily and efficiently done with the windows we have now.
    danqueller wrote: »
    The Delta Quadrant is a very large area of space, with only three destinations (the Jenolan Sphere, the Fleet Research Base, and Kobali Prime). Everything else has been left unused,
    Except literally every single system in the Delta Quadrant is used for either a story mission, or a patrol. There is literally not one system unused in the DQ.
    danqueller wrote: »
    What are the Vaadwaur doing now (they are still bombarding Kobali Prime's capital, and they continue to revive their numbers)?
    The Vaadwaur stopped attacking the Delta Quadrant once Gaul was killed. Its mentioned in "Dust to Dust" that Eldex has taken command of the Vaadwaur, and that, while he isn't working with the Delta Alliance, he also isn't attacking anyone either, preferring to stay neutral. The Vaadwaur only continue to attack the Kobali capital because, like all MMOs, each map is frozen in time in its specific spot in the story, and that map is from before the Vaadwaur were stopped.
    danqueller wrote: »
    How are the various civilizations in the Delta Quadrant dealing with the sudden influx of ships from the Sphere cruising between their systems and imposing their own regulations upon their affairs?
    They aren't. Its specifically mentioned that due to various threats left in the Delta Quadrant that access to the Dyson Spheres, and the Delta Quadrant, is limited to Alliance ships on official missions. There really isn't common trade/travel between the two regions.
    danqueller wrote: »
    What is going on with the Krenim and their efforts to rebuild and reconstruct their empire?
    The Krenim are part of their own Coalition with the Mawasi, Nihydron and the Zahl Regnancy, which is itself allied to the Delta Alliance, and they have been working to restore their worlds.
    danqueller wrote: »
    What are the Borg doing in their domains?
    The Borg have been on the retreat since Task Force Omega destroyed the Unimatrix that the Borg were amassing their invasion of the Alpha/Beta quadrants from. The Borg's losses to the Alliance were compounded by their wars with the Voth, Undine, Vaadwaur, and Borg Cooperative, all of which dealt significant blows to the Borg's numbers. The Borg Collective's numbers grew so low that the Queen pulled a desperation move to try to re-assimilate freed Cooperative ships, but that plan was foiled by a three way strike on the Borg's Unimatrix by the Alliance, Voth, and Undine, as seen in the "Borg Disconnected" TFO, leaving the Borg even more shattered then before.
    danqueller wrote: »
    These are all story arcs that could involve the wasted space in the Quadrant, yet we seem to be expected to believe that all of the races in the Quadrant are not involved at all in anything that affects the Sphere.
    Except, again, every single system in the Delta Quadrant is used in at least one story mission, or one patrol. There is literally not a single unused system in the region.
    danqueller wrote: »
    The Delta Quadrant is a vast area of space with thousands of stories to tell (hey, it's not like they made an entire series set there or anything), yet it sits unused and with the Spheres and those on them largely forgotten by the Alliance. That seems extremely unlikely, given how much they influenced events up until the Tzenkethi arc. So, yes....it has been -abandoned- by the Devs, with nothing coming out about it for years.
    And just like the Delta Quadrant got its own show, its got its own expansion. Just like DS9 got its own expansion, ENT/TOS got a combined expansion, and like how Discovery is getting its own expansion. If it got an entire expansion dedicated to it, and every single system on the map in the region is part of some content or another, it isn't 'unused" by any measure.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,926 Arc User
    edited March 28
    jagdtier44 wrote: »
    So ROD is the final season of Discovery? Just kinda guessing by the list of seasons than the 'Discovery is coming to a close"?

    I mean honestly.. if it is than thank god, I don't particularly dislike Discovery (as I've never watched it) but I detest cryptic ignoring 50% of its game because of it and I'll be friggin GLAD to see it go.
    Nope
    -Cryptic has said that by the time the Discovery content is over there will be two complete arcs.
    -A story arc in STO is anywhere from 5-8 missions, generally leaning more towards 7-8 in more recent arcs.
    -Each release of Discovery content has had two missions so far.
    -At this rate there will have to be 6-8 releases to get the 12-16 missions they need for between the two arcs.
    Best guess is that we are only half way through the Discovery content. Discovery will probably go on until December/the next anniversary event.

    This makes sense given that it takes around 15-18 months to build an expansion, and Age of Discovery is billed as an expansion over time, and we are only 6, coming up on 7, months into said expansion.

    At least that is what Al Rivera said previously.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    Context is your friend. The new faction start, for a start, is an alternative starting experience making use of one elaborated mission to bring a new backstory to their characters. There's the challenge of hooking this up on the backend (big effort) and challenge of developing new assets for it but we know (from comments) that was a bit of a push right after ViL. You can also argue that there were secondary consequences to that effort through bugs of unprecedented magnitude cropping up in the tailor and Foundry (they were rushing to meet AoD). Ie. that this wasn't a simple linear increase in content development for which improvements are unnecessary to consider, there may have been some strain to meet this goal.
    Starting experiences are always the hardest to do since they have to be perfectly designed to inform players of all the game's basic functions. Cryptic has talked about this before, but tutorials are THE single hardest piece of content to make. And the bugs aren't particularly different from any other expansion release. Remember all the bugs that cropped up with AoY?

    I imagine that's supposed to explain why we didn't get a new starting experience at all, but just a reskin of the Fed one (which I appreciated immensely when it came out, 'cause it was well done and added some new "scenery", if you will, that made it more palatable, at least for me).
    I imagine that's supposed to explain why Klingons where, once again, completely ignored? I understand why Romulans had to be left out - not that they received much love since the "faction" was introduced, except maybe for the whole Sphere's business, but even then playing the Solanae arch with a Rom character is nothing more than being the lapdog of either the Red Shirts or the Klingons - but we had the opportunity of saying the same content from an entirely different point of view. Imagine creating a Klingon from the DSC era. Imagine taking it through something so completely different from the Empire we know today (a divided mess of Houses and interested that, while still represented in some ways in the "modern" Empire, is still unique) and then having to adjust to an completely different state of things. You can arguably say that a Fed character from the same Era will have much less problems adapting - if you do not count the fact that they've lost everyone they love with no hope of getting back to them, of course.
    I imagine that's supposed to explain why the new missions, while "more" frequent are just as linear as the old content you seem to despise so much, if not more, and certainly not more repeatable.

    Maybe, just maybe!, it's high time the devs realize that creating content and then abandoning it but for the occasional C-Store ship is not the best way to go forward.
    You can be Fed all the way, you can be Klingon all the way, you can be Rom half-way ('cause seriously, that's just wrong in so many ways!), but if you are a real player, you'll want everyone to be able to play the same content equally.
    So, why should someone that prefer playing as a Klingon be forced to switch (or create an entirely new) Fed character just to be able to play the new content?
    Because people would go ballistic if it was the other way around.​​
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,926 Arc User
    edited March 28
    I imagine that's supposed to explain why Klingons where, once again, completely ignored?​​
    Klingons weren't "ignored", there just isn't enough information on what Klingons were doing in that era to make an arc out of, same reason there isn't a TOS era Klingon start.

    Klingons appeared in 5 episodes of TOS, and 4 of those 5 episodes were the same thing repeated. The Klingons of the Discovery and TOS eras were just people on a warpath, slaughtering and backstabing everyone, including themselves. We know too little about any sort of major events inside the Klingon Empire to make anything but 5-6 missions were you just murder everyone.

    And Cryptic is unlikely to do that for the same reason they wouldn't make a "badguy" faction like the Terran Empire playable, far too many people complain about missions like "Renegades Regret", where they were forced to commit genocide against entire planets in situations they know the aliens hadn't done anything to warrant it, and have made it clear they don't like playing that kind of content. So 6 missions where you order a bunch of Klingon warriors to suicide bomb starbases with their ships, and use bombs to annihilate the entire atmospheres of colony worlds and kill everyone on them, as Klingons were fond of doing, is pretty out of the question.

    And, unfortunately, that's pretty much all we know of what the Klingons were doing to themselves, and others, in that era.
    Maybe, just maybe!, it's high time the devs realize that creating content and then abandoning it
    What exactly have they abandoned?
    So, why should someone that prefer playing as a Klingon be forced to switch (or create an entirely new) Fed character just to be able to play the new content?
    All of the Age of Discovery missions are cross faction, so you don't have to make a new character to play the new content. The only new peice of content not open to the Klingons is the same part of the content not open to Roms, 2409 Feds, and TOS Feds, which is the Discovery tutorial.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,546 Arc User
    edited March 28
    Entirely incorrect. Most arcs don't even have 5 TFOs to begin with
    -ViL = 1
    -Tzenkethi = 4
    -Competitive = 3
    -AoY = 3
    -MU = 2
    -Iconian War = 3
    -Delta Rising = 3
    -Undine = 3
    -Voth = 2
    I could go on, but the only arc to have as many TFOs as we are getting with Discovery is the Borg arc, which has 8, and it only has 8 because they split the ground and space portions..

    Your post is counterfactual and here's a simple demonstration. I said seasons, not arcs. The span of AoD to now is analogous to the span of time (see. rates of change, ad hoc themes is an odd way of treating the problem) between two seasons (6 months).

    Season 13: 3 TFO's (April 2017)
    Season 14: 3 TFO's (October 2017)

    That's 6 TFO's as many months. We've had 4 comparable TFO's with AOD and one simple reskin. This isn't outside statistical limits for content production but we see steps taken to release content (at ordinary levels) more efficiently though with some fairly substantial drawbacks (see. Peril over Pahvo.) I'll also note that season 12 had 2 TFO's with a 4 month gap, continuing the pattern. Whether this is because of STO team changes or simply a more involving workload over recent months (maybe Battle at Binary and Pavho Dissention were exceptionally difficult to setup behind the scenes, ditto one or more of the missions within the AOD arc to adopt a valid null hypothesis) is rather beside the point, there are ways that Cryptic can simplify and do more under any nominal and exceptional development limitations.

    And to that point: if adopting some mechanics and strategies from the Foundry doesn't work for STO, it doesn't work; though to be frank there's only so much we can do without knowing the internal particulars to answer that question by any rational means (context for your reflexive argument, denying the basics to deny the impetus for suggested improvements, minimizing the concerns of others being paramount.) Enter: suggestion on a feedback forum, relevant to the topic of STO's broad future.
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    I imagine that's supposed to explain why Klingons where, once again, completely ignored?
    Klingons weren't "ignored", there just isn't enough information on what Klingons were doing in that era to make an arc out of, same reason there isn't a TOS era Klingon start.
    So that's the answer? They took the easy way out because "we don't have enough information"? Right. Yes, I'll believe that. Of course.
    Maybe, just maybe!, it's high time the devs realize that creating content and then abandoning it
    What exactly have they abandoned?
    All non Fed factions. They had countless opportunity to give both the Romulans and the Klingons some much needed love... and they ignored each and everyone of them (or have you forgotten the new ESD that came out, while both Qo'Nos and the Shipyards were totally ignored, even though they were both attacked by the Undine?), only giving out C-Store ships, as if a ship can make up for all the rest.
    And before you start with "they cannot make faction-specific content" - again! - I'll stop you: that's b******t. We all know it, but we're not all as good as you at being able to ignore what's blatantly in front of us.
    So, why should someone that prefer playing as a Klingon be forced to switch (or create an entirely new) Fed character just to be able to play the new content?
    All of the Age of Discovery missions are cross faction, so you don't have to make a new character to play the new content. The only new peice of content not open to the Klingons is the same part of the content not open to Roms, 2409 Feds, and TOS Feds, which is the Discovery tutorial.

    True, and they all make sense for the grand total of... one single faction. Sure, Klingons and Romulans characters can play the new "content" - if you can call it content - but that's about it. For it to make sense at all you need to play it as Fed character.​​
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 5,882 Community Moderator
    All sides of this "debate" need to settle down.
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  • lordconn#9249 lordconn Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    Just one additional Question. Is Gold Pressed Latinum EVER going to be relevant?
    Every currency EXCEPT GPL can be used to enhance your gaming experience. Why is this the only exception and will that ever change?
    GPL can be used at the Ferengi trader on DS9 to purchase commodities including contraband (which converts to dilithium that can be used or sold for zen) and jenovite which converts to hardpoints that can be sold for substantial EC. I find all of these substances "enhance my gaming experience".

  • savain75savain75 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited March 28
    As for ships, we have seen the Discovery pack which had like 5 new ships in it. This idea that all they are doing is single releases is, again, demonstrably false.

    The Operations packs and multifaction bundles are demonstrably different animals. Operations packs are historically tied to expansions and focus on the major players in that expansion, while multifaction packs introduce mix-and-match ships with new ship sets. There hasn't been a multifaction bundle (or a new set, for that matter) in quite some time, and even the Discovery Operations pack has significantly less content than other Operations packs. They're not only doing single releases (nor did anyone claim that), but they are focusing on them.
    Cryptic has said that by the time the Discovery content is over there will be two complete arcs.

    The arcs are set up in such a way that they can continue without being Discovery pastiches. J'Ula and Killy have both escaped into the galaxy at large, making them (potentially) galactic threats. This could fit with the claims that "Discovery is coming to a close" and "they're eager to return to Trek as a whole" (quoting a summary of the livestream); there's no reason Discovery has to dominate just because two DISC-related characters (one of whom was invented for the game and one of whom is only mentioned and presumed dead in the show) are running around in their future. (This is, I admit, pure speculation on my part.)
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,926 Arc User
    edited March 28
    savain75 wrote: »
    The arcs are set up in such a way that they can continue without being Discovery pastiches. J'Ula and Killy have both escaped into the galaxy at large, making them (potentially) galactic threats. This could fit with the claims that "Discovery is coming to a close" and "they're eager to return to Trek as a whole" (quoting a summary of the livestream); there's no reason Discovery has to dominate just because two DISC-related characters (one of whom was invented for the game and one of whom is only mentioned and presumed dead in the show) are running around in their future. (This is, I admit, pure speculation on my part.)
    J'Ula wasn't made up for the game, she actually comes from the IDW tie in comics that detail T'Kuvma's past. It was apparently CBS who recommended Cryptic use J'Ula(originally it was just going to be some random Klingon they made up), and got Cryptic in contact with the author of said comic so they could get a better picture of J'Ula as a character.

    From what Cryptic has said, CBS wants a lot of the Star Trek side materials to be more consistent with each other, and reference each other, to create a more shared secondary universe like the Trek novels have been doing for a decade or so now.

    Also, I watched the livestream and never heard them say Discovery is coming to a close, only that its reaching the bare minimum they feel is necessary for a Discovery experience, and that they have begun looking into other things to do.

    Now, Al Rviera did mention some time ago that stories may start and stop in the future, so they could be taking a break from Discovery as they prepare more stuff to use from S2 to continue the Discovery storyline, but given that Discovery content appears to go on past Rise of Discovery, its unlikely that Rise marks the end of the Disco story content.

    Hell, we have still yet to see
    -The playable Andorians, Tellerites, and Saurians, as well as the Dsico Klingon costume parts, we know they are working on
    -A Discovery themed reputation.
    -Most of the Disco Fed and Klingon ships, which they have said will all become playable.
  • savain75savain75 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    From what Cryptic has said, CBS wants a lot of the Star Trek side materials to be more consistent with each other, and reference each other, to create a more shared secondary universe like the Trek novels have been doing for a decade or so now.

    It's become increasingly common over the past couple of decades to reveal plot-critical details and/or "worldbuilding flavor" in tie-in works and leave them out of the primary source. I could name several movies that flopped for exactly that reason: motivations and explanations were left to backup material that the majority of viewers didn't know about, let alone buy. Even the Paramount Star Trek movies have done it (left explanations out of the movies, not flopped).

    More to the point, I'm just having fun speculating. I'm not guessing that they will nor even saying that they should move away from Discovery content (although personally I prefer the game be more "all-inclusive," and I know of many players, here on the forums and elsewhere, who feel likewise). I'm just saying that if you look at the endings of the arcs we've gotten so far, they are clearly set up in such a way that they can (and let me make it clear that by "move away," I do not mean "end"). What would a Discovery reputation even be if not a "Time-Displaced and Reality-Hopping Invaders Reaction Force?" (rolls right off the tongue, doesn't it?) (Keep in mind that the Temporal Defense Initiative is only tangentially related to the AoY storyline.)

  • savain75savain75 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    From what Cryptic has said, CBS wants a lot of the Star Trek side materials to be more consistent with each other, and reference each other, to create a more shared secondary universe like the Trek novels have been doing for a decade or so now.

    It's become increasingly common over the past couple of decades to reveal plot-critical details and/or "worldbuilding flavor" in tie-in works. I can name some movies that flopped for exactly that reason: motivations and explanations were left to background material that most viewers didn't know about, let alone buy. Even the Paramount Star Trek movies have done it (left material out, not flopped).

    More to the point, I'm just having fun speculating. I'm not saying that they will nor even that they should move away from Discovery content (although I personally would prefer they focus on being more "all-inclusive," and I know of many, here on the forums and elsewhere, that feel likewise). I'm just saying that when you look at the endings of the arcs we've gotten so far, it's clear they're set up so that they can (and let me be clear that by "move away," I do not mean "end"). What would a Discovery reputation even be if not the "Time-Displaced and Reality-Hopping Invaders Reaction Force" (rolls right off the tongue, doesn't it)? (Keep in mind that the Temporal Defense Initiative is only tangentially related to the AoY storyline.)

  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,926 Arc User
    savain75 wrote: »
    More to the point, I'm just having fun speculating.
    Same
    savain75 wrote: »
    What would a Discovery reputation even be if not the "Time-Displaced and Reality-Hopping Invaders Reaction Force" (rolls right off the tongue, doesn't it)?
    The Terrans reputation was based on technology House Pegh had developed to fight the Federation, that was now turned on the Mirror Universe. They could do the same here, just BS that Section 31 has been developing anti-Klingon weaponry since the Discovery era, in case the Federation ever went back into full on war with the Klingon Empire, and now its being used to fight J'Ula's forces or w/e.
  • savain75savain75 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited March 29
    The Terrans reputation was based on technology House Pegh had developed to fight the Federation, that was now turned on the Mirror Universe. They could do the same here, just BS that Section 31 has been developing anti-Klingon weaponry since the Discovery era, in case the Federation ever went back into full on war with the Klingon Empire, and now its being used to fight J'Ula's forces or w/e.

    Try this on for size, based on name progression of the arcs:
    • - Age of Discovery: actually takes place in the Discovery era (or a simulation thereof) and ends with all parties in the
      game's present.
    • - Mirror of Discovery: involves people being thrown around through time and dimensions and ends with all parties in the game's present.
    • - Rise of Discovery: J'Ula and Mirror Tilly start to establish powerbases, but get in each other's way. They decide to have a winner-takes-the-galaxy bakeoff (replicators not allowed; this is a test of skill). We have to go in and steal their flour.
      We succeed but they still escape, and in the aftermath, we see the rise of the Alliance Joint Task Force No-Baking Defense
      Cooperative Technologies Agency, which focuses on the many unexplored uses of replicator technology and works to outlaw cooking by hand.

    Post edited by savain75 on
  • themadprofessor#9835 themadprofessor Member Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    savain75 wrote: »
    What would a Discovery reputation even be if not the "Time-Displaced and Reality-Hopping Invaders Reaction Force" (rolls right off the tongue, doesn't it)? (Keep in mind that the Temporal Defense Initiative is only tangentially related to the AoY storyline.)

    As long as that Reputation has something like these as a cutscene, I'm all aboard.



    Mad Science means never stopping to ask "What's the worst that could happen?"

    Things I want in STO:

    1) More character customization options such as more clothing options like rolled sleeves, adding a "thickness" modifier to hair, and letting the complexion affect the entire body, not just the head.
    2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
    3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts.
    4) Terran Empire event similar to AoY, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
    5) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 3,388 Arc User
    Just one additional Question. Is Gold Pressed Latinum EVER going to be relevant?
    Every currency EXCEPT GPL can be used to enhance your gaming experience. Why is this the only exception and will that ever change?
    GPL can be used at the Ferengi trader on DS9 to purchase commodities including contraband (which converts to dilithium that can be used or sold for zen) and jenovite which converts to hardpoints that can be sold for substantial EC. I find all of these substances "enhance my gaming experience".

    I'd like to see it be used to unlock more tailor items. I want the TOS Romulan thigh boots, since they got those wicked heels, and there is a mini skirt version of the Starfleet academy skirt. Not to mention various hair and so on.
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 3,388 Arc User
    savain75 wrote: »
    - Rise of Discovery: J'Ula and Mirror Tilly start to establish powerbases, but get in each other's way. They decide to have a winner-takes-the-galaxy bakeoff (replicators not allowed; this is a test of skill). We have to go in and steal their flour.
    We succeed but they still escape, and in the aftermath, we see the rise of the Alliance Joint Task Force No-Baking Defense
    Cooperative Technologies Agency, which focuses on the many unexplored uses of replicator technology and works to outlaw cooking by hand.

    O.O


    I wanna see that!





    Also, if that does not happen, can I use that for a future comic? :3

    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 12,557 Arc User
    edited March 29
    So that's the answer? They took the easy way out because "we don't have enough information"? Right. Yes, I'll believe that. Of course.

    To be fair, that probably IS the answer.

    In this week's livestream the Executive Producer (Andre Emmerson) stated that they're holding back on putting the DSC-era Enterprise (1701) into the game. It has been made - there is a physical in-game model ready for release - but they're waiting until we find out more about it and what it might be able to do from the series itself before they release it.

    Same applies to the DSC era Klingons. Without spoiling anything, the 'trailer' for Discovery S2 Ep13 shows Klingon involvement
    and the appearance of a physical D7 class that we know from TOS
    so the season clearly isn't done with them yet
    3U3C0SJ.jpg

  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 3,388 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    So that's the answer? They took the easy way out because "we don't have enough information"? Right. Yes, I'll believe that. Of course.

    To be fair, that probably IS the answer.

    In this week's livestream the Executive Producer (Andre Emmerson) stated that they're holding back on putting the DSC-era Enterprise (1701) into the game. It has been made - there is a physical in-game model ready for release - but they're waiting until we find out more about it and what it might be able to do from the series itself before they release it.

    Same applies to the DSC era Klingons. Without spoiling anything, the 'trailer' for Discovery S2 Ep13 shows Klingon involvement
    and the appearance of a physical D7 class that we know from TOS
    so the season clearly isn't done with them yet

    Let's just hope it does not give the you know whos that the mods seem to get upset when I mention, another item to sell for a billion and a half......
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    So that's the answer? They took the easy way out because "we don't have enough information"? Right. Yes, I'll believe that. Of course.

    To be fair, that probably IS the answer.

    In this week's livestream the Executive Producer (Andre Emmerson) stated that they're holding back on putting the DSC-era Enterprise (1701) into the game. It has been made - there is a physical in-game model ready for release - but they're waiting until we find out more about it and what it might be able to do from the series itself before they release it.

    Same applies to the DSC era Klingons. Without spoiling anything, the 'trailer' for Discovery S2 Ep13 shows Klingon involvement
    and the appearance of a physical D7 class that we know from TOS
    so the season clearly isn't done with them yet

    Ok, let's pretend that is the answer for a moment. It's all good and well for anything Discovery-related. What about all the rest? Why all this "cross-faction" content is clearly made with only the Federation in mind?
    (As a side note: my main is a Fed, but I do enjoy playing my Klingons, my Jem and my Romulans - still waiting for a true Rom ship that doesn't f**k me over, energy wise, btw! - so I'm not particularly biased toward any of the factions actually in existence)​​
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,926 Arc User
    edited March 29
    Ok, let's pretend that is the answer for a moment. It's all good and well for anything Discovery-related. What about all the rest? Why all this "cross-faction" content is clearly made with only the Federation in mind?​
    Well
    A. Cross faction content isn't made with only Federation in mind. Hell, the last several arcs in particular have been wanking of the Klingons heavily.
    B. Even if they were, the Federation was the focus of every single Trek series thus far, and thus makes up 99% of the content the game is based off of, which in turn drives more people to go Federation in the first place. So the faction with more content in show will get more content, or content focus, in-game.
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