I think that announcement of this years "Risian LOL-hunat festival" does say a lot about what to expect on Risa.
And it is not even 1st of April
But i am really curious how will that ship scaling system be.
I know there is not a big chance, but it would be nice if those old T1-T5 ships were playable in missions again.
None of these have peaked my interest a new updated foundry would have but since it looks like that will not happen in the near future. I will be taking quite some time away from this game if that becomes permanent will depend on what is in store in the future
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Anyone else notice the Oberth is no longer in the Zen store? I still have mine that I keep around because I have this weird fascination with the ship, but I wonder...
For real? I will have to look.
But I also wonder if they are "fixing" the original scaling Disco ship so it goes to T6 instead of stopping at T4?
I also wonder if the remaining NOT T6 ships will all get re-released? Otherwise, except for consoles, why would they sell?
So... am I only only one that gets the total irony in this being a "Spring/Summer" roadmap, and the pic on the launcher is a shuttle crashed in the snow? Clearly, that pilot didn't use a "roadmap"
"Roadmaps? Where we're going we don't need roadmaps." (A few seconds later) "Oops!"
I think that announcement of this years "Risian LOL-hunat festival" does say a lot about what to expect on Risa.
And it is not even 1st of April
But i am really curious how will that ship scaling system be.
I know there is not a big chance, but it would be nice if those old T1-T5 ships were playable in missions again.
With the fact that the Risian Corvette is being offered as a special T6 reward I wouldn't expect the updated scaling system to extend up. From previous Ten Forward discussion the idea may be to add scaling down from all T6 ships.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Hi all. I haven't been on the forum in a while, but I thought I'd offer my 2 EC on the road map. I'm looking forward to First Contact Day and the Riposte event, but still not really sure what either will bring. The major Discovery update? I liked Star Trek Online better when I saw it as a combination of all things Star Trek, and I think we're seeing too much Discovery right now. I'm not saying that people who love that show shouldn't get their playable content from it, but it's all we're seeing. My feeling is that a major update should have a major amount of episodes. Even if I wanted to play Discovery, there aren't enough missions to add up to a decent sized campaign. (More about this in a moment.) As for level scaling ships, I will reserve my evaluation for now. Depending on how it is done, it could be a good thing, bad thing, or a mixed bag. We'll see. Are existing ships being changed, or are all factions getting new ships? If it's the latter, this would be a great opportunity to finally bring in some new Romulan ships. What I also want to see is more level scaling gear, especially for all factions. I think a scaling Klingon disruptor beam and a scaling Romulan plasma beam that come with the corresponding tier 1 ships are long overdue. And yes, I would buy both ships, just for those beams. Well, the beams and the admiralty cards. Admiralty cards are also a huge part of the reason I buy lower tier Z-ships. And, I also like variety for my lower tier characters, instead of getting just the one ship. Earning Z-ships by playing events? This sounds like a great idea! I can't wait to see how this plays out. The T6 Risian corvette. It's not what I was hoping for, but I know a lot of other players wanted it. Besides, I'll finally get to see what all the fuss over this ship is about. I think this might be the earliest they've announced the Summer event ship. Good move, I'm looking forward to it.
Getting back to the number of missions in the next update, I think I'm seeing a few things that add up to a major red flag. First of all, the heart and soul of this game is the collection of playable missions, not the dailies we do for currencies. So, removing the Foundry takes away something huge from this game. STO has really taken a step back with this. So, someone said that Foundry missions are not being added as playable missions because it's too much work for the devs to do this. Combine that thought with the fact that we are seeing fewer missions per update. Does this mean that we will continue to see very few missions per update, because it's too much work to add them? What could be so important that the best part of the game is being reduced? Devs, you really need to reverse this trend. Bring back the Foundry and start giving us longer campaigns.
Getting back to the number of missions in the next update, I think I'm seeing a few things that add up to a major red flag. First of all, the heart and soul of this game is the collection of playable missions, not the dailies we do for currencies. So, removing the Foundry takes away something huge from this game. STO has really taken a step back with this. So, someone said that Foundry missions are not being added as playable missions because it's too much work for the devs to do this. Combine that thought with the fact that we are seeing fewer missions per update. Does this mean that we will continue to see very few missions per update, because it's too much work to add them? What could be so important that the best part of the game is being reduced? Devs, you really need to reverse this trend. Bring back the Foundry and start giving us longer campaigns.
There's a bit limitation in reversing the trend away from narrative content. Namely, Cryptic's content strategy. Since the Iconian War they've focused on polish per standard AAA conventions which reduced the frequency of missions at the expense of more new environments, more cinematics, and a lot of bespoke content production all around. They put a lot of development into these missions, relative to the old days. That worked (IMO) up until VIL but with AoD the studio shifted people away from STO to focus on MTG. That left a smaller team to live up to the old standard, which I think they've compromised by trying to build to the same quality but with compromises to depth, complexity, and mission length. They're also building for a new intro arc but I think that only goes so far to explain why their newest content has been so straight forward and so often defaults to fighting Klingons (with very little context) in DSC corridors. Those are the building blocks they have to play with and it's difficult for them to branch out (like a Foundry author would) because the style of mission creation precludes economical improvisation (to anywhere near the same effect.)
For example, with the toolset I had to work with I could create a generic freighter interior from the customary wall bits but then change the height and width through the use of various floor/ceilings (playing to visceral human perception of space.) I could add simple lighting elements and other components to create a completely different feel for the same components. This also gave a lot of freedom when it came to the layout of the ship, the design of each room, and so on. The best example of this is my mission Shattered Relic. Cryptic can compare the generic freighter I use there with the one they've historically defaulted to to examine the strengths of each approach. Their usual method instead seems to use modular hallway sections built from scratch whenever they need a new type of interior (rather than using pre-fabricated components [eg. walls, floors] like we had in the Foundry.) This gives ultimate creative flexibility per their environment artists and some time saving (once the pieces are made) per modular construction of full maps when creating (say) and Federation interior in the DSC era but it makes it a LOT more difficult to branch out into other environments for more elaborated missions and connections in the broader universe. These parts aren't easily reassembled and are very proscriptive in their uses. Ergo missions with a smaller, restricted focus when they aren't able to simply throw more resources into custom environments (as we saw in ViL for example) and for as much as they built (adding to the asset library) mission creation doesn't get any easier (they're not using the game as a palette, instead running from new location to new location to hit points of cross advertising [as economicallly as possible] but without making use of the full span of the 2410 setting, in turn making their job easier.)
Basically, the way Cryptic builds missions is (in some respects) at odds with structural changes that have occurred recently for the STO team. It's not as effective now as it once was. This may result in a greater pressure to build more but the inability to deliver the content at a frequency or to a scale which matches player expectations as cultivated over STO's lifespan. Losing the Foundry is a very unfortunate component to this (if they were able to maintain it there is an immediate release built into the game to adjust for studio shifts and new pressures, everything I'm talking about is much less of a problem if the Foundry remained) but it isn't the extent of STO's long term problems. They need to build more but have less people to build it, at least from what we've been told so far. Enter an increasing focus on skinner box grinding mechanics to make up the difference (personal endeavors and the upcoming "participate for c-store ships", both of which seem lifted from emerging mechanics in other MMO's for full context.) But there's a better way: build like Foundry authors did. The system you're cutting provides a great demonstration for how to exploit the format and build lasting, organic connections with players with minimal investment (creative problem solving and effective writing compensates.) Use our missions as internal examples for how to efficiently make high quality content with forward looking and complex story arcs that can self-modulate per player interest and content preferences (see. TEXT BASED OPTIONAL DIALOG for world building and character, I didn't include this in all my missions for simple funsies. It's how you build more accessible missions for your player base without sacrificing character, world building, or depth or ballooning the mission budget with VO. It's an adaptive gameplay mechanism that broadens mission (missions are more or less involved depending on preference) appeal and yet gives more for players to latch onto [see increased dedication and retention]. And its best employed simply by letting writers write, this is a very symbiotic system that can be added to STO with no new feature development and little added work [see. what's done for short story posts. Think "like that but organically incorporated into the game.")
STO is an evolving game and that will ultimately come down to business decisions but within that remit there are ways of more constructively responding to pressures while meeting content demands (and incidentally opening new horizons for mission format as well.) With or without this lecture maybe the team moves that direction (perhaps its a question of anticipating pressure versus natural selection leading to that response more gradually) but I think the point to rest on is that from the roadmap Cryptic has not yet re-aligned STO to its new environment (per internal and external pressures) besides de-emphasizing their narrative in AoD (pre resource limitations) and leaning more on proscriptive grinding mechanics to hold the line. They can do better.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
That worked (IMO) up until VIL but with AoD the studio shifted people away from STO to focus on MTG. That left a smaller team to live up to the old standard
Except they have hired around half a dozen new people to replace the ones that went to MTG.
From comments from Kael on Ten Forward from a few months back: the team isn't as large as it was (the studio is shifting to MTG, naturally given growth opportunities and potential for investment. You can also see that reflected in the current and recent job positions posted to Cryptic's website.) If you have new information, I'd be glad to see it sourced.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
But I also wonder if they are "fixing" the original scaling Disco ship so it goes to T6 instead of stopping at T4?
I don't see them changing the prototype leveling Walker because it would then conflict with the already existing T6 Walker. Also they would have to make a trait unique to that particular Walker and add in the T6 leveling mechanic as well, which again may conflict with the existing T6 Walker.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
From comments from Kael on Ten Forward from a couple months back: the team isn't as large as it was (the studio is shifting to MTG). If you have new information, I'd be glad to see it sourced.
They have mentioned in several live streams, and even in the P1 podcast, that they have hired a number of new people. Ranging from artists, UI, and most visibly Weston, the new animator who has been fixing up all the broken animations, and redoing the older cutscenes.
All you have to do is watch P1's 400th episode 3 parter, there's a number of people who mention they joined only about 5 months ago.
"Hired a number of new people" isn't a refutation though on Kael saying on Ten Forward (less than 5 months ago) that the team size is somewhat smaller in line with new studio direction (or at least this phase in MTG's production cycle.) That's a direct statement on net movement with transfers, turn-over, and hirings which we can also see reflected in the pace of content development through roadmaps 1 and 2. It's coming but at the longer end of the frequency distribution and in smaller, less involved form (not outside the historical norm but this isn't a new maximum for STO even as they've settled into a new equilibrium following the disruption of personnel shifts. It's a pressure on development.)
I'll also note that Westin has been working on the game for some time, he doesn't factor into this discussion (note: most visibly, your words. Westin's nearing 2 years at Cryptic.) New people have joined up more recently but unless there's an evaluation of the current team size from a very recent interview I'm going to have to take the direct statement on this topic over your interpretation of single data points. With the implementation of a new game there's somewhat less focus on STO at the company level (very, very natural), contributing to (though not wholly creating) a set of development challenges (from what we've been told on livestreams) for which there are constructive solutions beyond those we see on the roadmap and recent updates. Even under ideal circumstances for the STO team, they can improve content delivery as ranted on above.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
With the release of Rise of Discovery in April we will have gotten
-A new faction start
-6 new missions
-5 new TFOs
-A new character creator UI
-Several new systems/system updates such as T6 reps, random TFOs, and personal endeavors
-8-10 new Discovery era ships
Context is your friend. The new faction start, for a start, is an alternative starting experience making use of one elaborated mission to bring a new backstory to their characters. There's the challenge of hooking this up on the backend (big effort) and challenge of developing new assets for it but we know (from comments) that was a bit of a push right after ViL. You can also argue that there were secondary consequences to that effort through bugs of unprecedented magnitude cropping up in the tailor and Foundry (they were rushing to meet AoD). Ie. that this wasn't a simple linear increase in content development for which improvements are unnecessary to consider, there may have been some strain to meet this goal.
They did it, but by no means does this mean (per your ever evolving point of contradiction) that the STO team is working at a higher rate of development because it was also coupled with a relative drought in narrative content between ViL and AoD (there was no lead-in mission as we've seen with previous arcs) and other measures taken to economize but at some direct trade-offs to episode depth and story quality. Ie. "6 new missions" don't describe what those missions entail and how much went into their creation. AoD has effectively built itself from the DSC interior set with Pahvo, SFA, and FED tutorial colony standing as the major points of departure. A bit more went into the episodes comprising the arc that lead to ViL from objective sets to environment design. Notably, one of the two AoD missions was a one map rehash of the accompanying TFO. The two that accompanied Mirror of Discovery likewise opted for simpler mission structures (almost archetypal, excepting for Westin's amazing cutscene work and the Killy bossfight) and could have been written as a single episode (comparable in structure to Home in ViL.) The innovation is the punctuation, which I think worked out fine but it does complicate how you consider this release (could be one, but elaborated a bit to two.) Cryptic may be hitting the nominal expectations for new episodes every few months (at the longer side of "few" but not completely out of the norm) but there are some compromises being made to maintain that rate of development which would not be necessary if the team wasn't working under a bit more limitation (in line with Kael's comment but potentially also shifting content priorities or long-term investments we don't know about yet.)
And what about "5 new TFO's?" Well, we often see this number over the span of two seasons. But, that isn't often achieved through the measures we saw for Peril over Pahvo (and context: at this time last year we had a new FE, not a TFO reskin.) It's not an increase in content frequency if the number remains within statistical limits and additional conservation steps are taken to achieve it. Ditto ship releases, they've scaled back on the old c-store multifaction pack (requiem for ROM) to focus on single releases (often through stand-alone boxes). The last major lock box also lacked a Lobi accompaniment (there was just the Styx). More economical, also doesn't point to a major uptick in content sufficient to make your point.
And to be absolutely clear: I think these are natural development pressures (recently increased due to stated circumstances) and the response is to further accommodate for them and make more general improvements (content limitations also apply under ideal circumstances.)
Even if we're looking at comments re. team size as reflective of a very short-term dip for which Cryptic has pulled up from...the production lag time for content means that what we're seeing around this time is probably the product of that dip and even if the next major release is going to absolutely overshoot customary expectations the point stands that there are better ways for Cryptic to economize in future and further ways of improving player engagement through low cost, low effort mechanics such as I explained. Even if these aren't life or death considerations now its worth pursuing further innovations of format as indicated by what some Foundry authors achieved (learn from principles and experiment with mechanics.) Ie. no matter the quibbling re. exact numbers and internal production pipelines and at what capacity their operating now the point stands.
PS. Rise of Discovery is in May, not April. We have a new event next month (Apostate). Here's hoping but we'll have to see what it entails.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
So... am I only only one that gets the total irony in this being a "Spring/Summer" roadmap, and the pic on the launcher is a shuttle crashed in the snow? Clearly, that pilot didn't use a "roadmap"
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That would require people to care about ship interiors for Cryptic to put any effort into updating them. As it stands, no one does, so Cryptic doesn't puts the time and money into it.
That is a very erroneous statement, since I hope the fact that I opened with it indicates that there are, in fact, people who do care about ship interiors. As well, the effort the Devs put into the revamp of the DS9 interior, developing the Galaxy Interior, developing the Discovery interiors, and the recent comments by some of the Devs about having players want to spend time in their game all point to the fact that interiors and the environments within the game are quite important to both the Devs and the playerbase, though it seems the Devs don't understand how much people come into the game for the chance to experience Star Trek. The Star Trek experience happens largely on the ships of the series (which is why each series is named for the ship it is set upon), so not having ship interiors that provide that experience is working against keeping those players the Devs say are the core of their playerbase. To say no one cares seems pretty myopic.
And, updating the interiors would require considerably less effort than the aforementioned projects, as the assets are already in the game and developed for use in the intro missions. It is not like they are things that would need to be produced wholesale. And, this is one of the things the Devs indicated many years ago that they were looking at doing, so it is not something they didn't have plans drawn up for. They simply didn't follow through on it.
As for the Delta Quadrant/Dyson Sphere, what exactly do you think they need to develop on it? We chased off both the Voth and Undine, secured both spheres, and now use them as a means of transport and communication with the Delta Alliance that we helped set up, and are allied to, and who helped us defeat the Vaadwaur that were terrorizing the Delta Quadrant. Likewise, Delta Alliance ships have used the same passage way to come to the Alpha/Beta Quadrants, and Delta Alliance forces were seen helping defend Earth during "Midnight" in the Iconian War.
I don't understand this bizarre notion people have that something whose story arc is logically over, and thus doesn't get mentioned again, is "abandoned". That isn't what abandoned means. The Children of Khan, now THAT'S an abandoned plot thread.
Your reasoning is like saying the Alpha and Beta Quadrants' story is over as soon as the Delta Quadrant opened up. Yet, they are still being used for story content. Simply because a short storyline ends does not mean the overall story does not continue. The Delta Quadrant is a very large area of space, with only three destinations (the Jenolan Sphere, the Fleet Research Base, and Kobali Prime). Everything else has been left unused, and given how much the Spheres represent in both importance and threat, that they are just left without further storylines seems a drastic waste. And that doesn't even go into how many worlds and cultures exist in the Delta Quadrant to have storylines about.
Ultimately, the Delta Quadrant has been left unused by the Dev team as yesterday's thrill, with none of the possible and expected continuations one might expect. What are the Vaadwaur doing now (they are still bombarding Kobali Prime's capital, and they continue to revive their numbers)? How are the various civilizations in the Delta Quadrant dealing with the sudden influx of ships from the Sphere cruising between their systems and imposing their own regulations upon their affairs? What is going on with the Krenim and their efforts to rebuild and reconstruct their empire? What are the Borg doing in their domains? These are all story arcs that could involve the wasted space in the Quadrant, yet we seem to be expected to believe that all of the races in the Quadrant are not involved at all in anything that affects the Sphere. And that doesn't even touch on what is unknown within the vast reaches of 1/4th of a galaxy.
The Delta Quadrant is a vast area of space with thousands of stories to tell (hey, it's not like they made an entire series set there or anything), yet it sits unused and with the Spheres and those on them largely forgotten by the Alliance. That seems extremely unlikely, given how much they influenced events up until the Tzenkethi arc. So, yes....it has been -abandoned- by the Devs, with nothing coming out about it for years.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,672Community Moderator
The problem with ship interiors is that it takes time to develop those interiors. Time that generally is unavailable due to constraints or other factors. That's why we haven't really gotten any new full interiors unless they also can make use of said interiors in a mission, like we see with both Beyond the Nexus (Galaxy interior) and the Delta Arc missions where we visit Voyager.
Could they have adapted some of the stuff from the missions we go aboard the Glenn and ISS Discovery? Probably. However to make it a fully functional interior they'd have to do some serious rework, which includes ready room, quarters, sickbay, ect. Rooms we currently don't have in game. And I believe Tacofangs once said that the development time for interiors was just about the same as for missions or something like that.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Delta quadrant at least has a reason to go back in the form of argala.
Gamma quadrant was a desolate wasteland when it arrived and has no reason to visit once you slog through the missions. (Remember when it came out and folk said remember delta expansion, wait for the 2nd half and all we got was a single episode with a huge gap in plot between it and the previous ones not to mention the crappy fallback of we all live happily ever after
Oh and odo gets to snog kira during a death or glory gunfight so that must make it good, right. Then again they're probably bored of timed defenses themselves by now so may as well do something reproductive with their time.
The problem with ship interiors is that it takes time to develop those interiors. Time that generally is unavailable due to constraints or other factors. That's why we haven't really gotten any new full interiors unless they also can make use of said interiors in a mission, like we see with both Beyond the Nexus (Galaxy interior) and the Delta Arc missions where we visit Voyager.
Could they have adapted some of the stuff from the missions we go aboard the Glenn and ISS Discovery? Probably. However to make it a fully functional interior they'd have to do some serious rework, which includes ready room, quarters, sickbay, ect. Rooms we currently don't have in game. And I believe Tacofangs once said that the development time for interiors was just about the same as for missions or something like that.
The thing is, the assets are already developed in the form of the interiors of the Introduction missions. The development time to put them in place as standard ship interiors would be a fraction of what it would take to do a completely new interior or, by extension, missions.
As for the galaxy interior, I think you got that backwards. They were working on the Galaxy interior as a way to celebrate the Anniversary of TNG, and the mission was developed to show it to the playerbase (much as the Kelvin missions were meant to highlight the Kelvin Constitution and bridge, and the Delta arc involving the Voyager and its interior was developed to present those to the players). This sort of thing has been going on for a very long time in the game, and is even a selling point of ships ( the description of many new ships includes the 'Custom Bridge' as a feature cited when the ship is unveiled).
Ultimately, though, the failure to implement an update to the standard interiors is just one more example in a line of unfinished work the Devs have left in the wake of the content they have put out. I'm just very disappointed that they seem uninterested in working on what they have with the same enthusiasm as they do working on what they will put in.
> @somtaawkhar said: > dkeith2011 wrote: » > > I hope that means ALL ships will scale with character level. > > > > In past livestreams they have talked about it being focused on T6 ships scaling. That might have changed, but, given that we know so far, its only intended for T6.
> @somtaawkhar said: > duncanidaho11 wrote: » > > That worked (IMO) up until VIL but with AoD the studio shifted people away from STO to focus on MTG. That left a smaller team to live up to the old standard > > > > Except they have hired around half a dozen new people to replace the ones that went to MTG.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
So... when we will get some of the sandbox parts of the game back? is it a side project? is it put on hold indefinetly?
gotta tell you making alt's is not the best thing to do when you invest in a mmo for 8,5 years.
At least the semi-random exploration missions gave us old players something else then farming dilithium or runing alt's...
also... im back at the forums... yay.
also [2]... what is this ships level with you? im curious.
If you're talking about the foundry as being sandbox parts, that's being shut down and likely not being brought back for the foreseeable future.
Assuming you've been out of the loop, Age of Discovery introduced the idea of scaling ships with a c-store version of the Walker class that scales up to level 30 or Tier 4. They expanded on this by taking it all the way and made the Gagarin and Shran leveling ships. I mean, look at what we have in terms of scaling examples:
- At Tier 1, the Gagarin/Shepard has a base hull of 12,500 which is a little more than the 10,000 that the Miranda has.
- At Tier 2, the Gagarin has a hull of 18,750 which when compared to something like the Cruiser Refit from the C-store is close to comparable.
- At Tier 3, the Gagarin has a hull of 25,000 which is comparable to the T3 Excelsior of 26,000
- At Tier 4, the Gagarin has a hull of 31,250 which is comparable to the T4 Galaxy Refit of 32,500.
- At Tier 5, the Gagarin has a hull of 37,500 which is comparagle to the T5 Assault Cruiser of 39,000
- At Tier 6, the Gagarin has a hull anywhere from 43,125 (at level 50) to 56,250 (level 65) which when once again compared to the T6 Assault Cruiser, is comparable in hull strength.
Essentially, in the end, they're making it so that if you want to fly a T6 ship on a newer character, you'll be able to.
not talking about the foundry,
i am talking about all the other stuff that were supposedly chopped from the game to be reworked i mean okay it's an mmo instances (tfo's and such) are supposed to be the end game content.
but doing the same instances over and over and doing the newer(and fewer) episodes over and over gets boring after a time.
when we had the exploration missions(exploration, diplomatic and the first contact missions) we had something else to do when the instances get boring now the closest thing to this is making a klingon or klingon allied and go to the nebulas to blow up some ships and the patrol sorties...
when there was this kinda sandbox part it was semi random simple missions that added some flavor to the game.
also i know the concept of scalling ships the TOS connie is or was such ship im curious about what they will implement with such a broad term "ships level with you" i am just back >>at the forums<<
So... when we will get some of the sandbox parts of the game back? is it a side project? is it put on hold indefinetly?
gotta tell you making alt's is not the best thing to do when you invest in a mmo for 8,5 years.
At least the semi-random exploration missions gave us old players something else then farming dilithium or runing alt's...
also... im back at the forums... yay.
also [2]... what is this ships level with you? im curious.
If you're talking about the foundry as being sandbox parts, that's being shut down and likely not being brought back for the foreseeable future.
Assuming you've been out of the loop, Age of Discovery introduced the idea of scaling ships with a c-store version of the Walker class that scales up to level 30 or Tier 4. They expanded on this by taking it all the way and made the Gagarin and Shran leveling ships. I mean, look at what we have in terms of scaling examples:
- At Tier 1, the Gagarin/Shepard has a base hull of 12,500 which is a little more than the 10,000 that the Miranda has.
- At Tier 2, the Gagarin has a hull of 18,750 which when compared to something like the Cruiser Refit from the C-store is close to comparable.
- At Tier 3, the Gagarin has a hull of 25,000 which is comparable to the T3 Excelsior of 26,000
- At Tier 4, the Gagarin has a hull of 31,250 which is comparable to the T4 Galaxy Refit of 32,500.
- At Tier 5, the Gagarin has a hull of 37,500 which is comparagle to the T5 Assault Cruiser of 39,000
- At Tier 6, the Gagarin has a hull anywhere from 43,125 (at level 50) to 56,250 (level 65) which when once again compared to the T6 Assault Cruiser, is comparable in hull strength.
Essentially, in the end, they're making it so that if you want to fly a T6 ship on a newer character, you'll be able to.
not talking about the foundry,
i am talking about all the other stuff that were supposedly chopped from the game to be reworked i mean okay it's an mmo instances (tfo's and such) are supposed to be the end game content.
but doing the same instances over and over and doing the newer(and fewer) episodes over and over gets boring after a time.
when we had the exploration missions(exploration, diplomatic and the first contact missions) we had something else to do when the instances get boring now the closest thing to this is making a klingon or klingon allied and go to the nebulas to blow up some ships and the patrol sorties...
when there was this kinda sandbox part it was semi random simple missions that added some flavor to the game.
also i know the concept of scalling ships the TOS connie is or was such ship im curious about what they will implement with such a broad term "ships level with you" i am just back >>at the forums<<
Exploration cluster missions were not "sandbox" elements, but randomized instances that were crafted together by picking different parameters and pasting them in as a encounter. There was no telling what would come up, but often times what would come up would be buggy. I honestly hated it, especially that once you got through with it, there was no way to follow up later or revisit the area.
On the note of scaling ships, the TOS Connie was never a scaling ship. What you're thinking of is the Phasers that came with the ship, which scaled up until level 50.
What's being talked about is having the Tier 6 ships being available for low level players and allowing them to scale and grow with the player and allowing them to fly a ship that they want on that character through endgame.
So... when we will get some of the sandbox parts of the game back? is it a side project? is it put on hold indefinetly?
gotta tell you making alt's is not the best thing to do when you invest in a mmo for 8,5 years.
At least the semi-random exploration missions gave us old players something else then farming dilithium or runing alt's...
also... im back at the forums... yay.
also [2]... what is this ships level with you? im curious.
If you're talking about the foundry as being sandbox parts, that's being shut down and likely not being brought back for the foreseeable future.
Assuming you've been out of the loop, Age of Discovery introduced the idea of scaling ships with a c-store version of the Walker class that scales up to level 30 or Tier 4. They expanded on this by taking it all the way and made the Gagarin and Shran leveling ships. I mean, look at what we have in terms of scaling examples:
- At Tier 1, the Gagarin/Shepard has a base hull of 12,500 which is a little more than the 10,000 that the Miranda has.
- At Tier 2, the Gagarin has a hull of 18,750 which when compared to something like the Cruiser Refit from the C-store is close to comparable.
- At Tier 3, the Gagarin has a hull of 25,000 which is comparable to the T3 Excelsior of 26,000
- At Tier 4, the Gagarin has a hull of 31,250 which is comparable to the T4 Galaxy Refit of 32,500.
- At Tier 5, the Gagarin has a hull of 37,500 which is comparagle to the T5 Assault Cruiser of 39,000
- At Tier 6, the Gagarin has a hull anywhere from 43,125 (at level 50) to 56,250 (level 65) which when once again compared to the T6 Assault Cruiser, is comparable in hull strength.
Essentially, in the end, they're making it so that if you want to fly a T6 ship on a newer character, you'll be able to.
not talking about the foundry,
i am talking about all the other stuff that were supposedly chopped from the game to be reworked i mean okay it's an mmo instances (tfo's and such) are supposed to be the end game content.
but doing the same instances over and over and doing the newer(and fewer) episodes over and over gets boring after a time.
when we had the exploration missions(exploration, diplomatic and the first contact missions) we had something else to do when the instances get boring now the closest thing to this is making a klingon or klingon allied and go to the nebulas to blow up some ships and the patrol sorties...
when there was this kinda sandbox part it was semi random simple missions that added some flavor to the game.
also i know the concept of scalling ships the TOS connie is or was such ship im curious about what they will implement with such a broad term "ships level with you" i am just back >>at the forums<<
Exploration cluster missions were not "sandbox" elements, but randomized instances that were crafted together by picking different parameters and pasting them in as a encounter. There was no telling what would come up, but often times what would come up would be buggy. I honestly hated it, especially that once you got through with it, there was no way to follow up later or revisit the area.
On the note of scaling ships, the TOS Connie was never a scaling ship. What you're thinking of is the Phasers that came with the ship, which scaled up until level 50.
What's being talked about is having the Tier 6 ships being available for low level players and allowing them to scale and grow with the player and allowing them to fly a ship that they want on that character through endgame.
Yeah, Mad Libs is a sandbox, because it allows you to be creative. Having the Mad Libs already filled out for you is not a sandbox, it's side content. I'm sure some people liked it, for whatever reasons, but, as you said, it was just a series of disjointed snapshots with not a whiff of continuity among them.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
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And it is not even 1st of April
But i am really curious how will that ship scaling system be.
I know there is not a big chance, but it would be nice if those old T1-T5 ships were playable in missions again.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
For real? I will have to look.
But I also wonder if they are "fixing" the original scaling Disco ship so it goes to T6 instead of stopping at T4?
I also wonder if the remaining NOT T6 ships will all get re-released? Otherwise, except for consoles, why would they sell?
Pinch me, I'm dreamin'!
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"Roadmaps? Where we're going we don't need roadmaps." (A few seconds later) "Oops!"
With the fact that the Risian Corvette is being offered as a special T6 reward I wouldn't expect the updated scaling system to extend up. From previous Ten Forward discussion the idea may be to add scaling down from all T6 ships.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Getting back to the number of missions in the next update, I think I'm seeing a few things that add up to a major red flag. First of all, the heart and soul of this game is the collection of playable missions, not the dailies we do for currencies. So, removing the Foundry takes away something huge from this game. STO has really taken a step back with this. So, someone said that Foundry missions are not being added as playable missions because it's too much work for the devs to do this. Combine that thought with the fact that we are seeing fewer missions per update. Does this mean that we will continue to see very few missions per update, because it's too much work to add them? What could be so important that the best part of the game is being reduced? Devs, you really need to reverse this trend. Bring back the Foundry and start giving us longer campaigns.
There's a bit limitation in reversing the trend away from narrative content. Namely, Cryptic's content strategy. Since the Iconian War they've focused on polish per standard AAA conventions which reduced the frequency of missions at the expense of more new environments, more cinematics, and a lot of bespoke content production all around. They put a lot of development into these missions, relative to the old days. That worked (IMO) up until VIL but with AoD the studio shifted people away from STO to focus on MTG. That left a smaller team to live up to the old standard, which I think they've compromised by trying to build to the same quality but with compromises to depth, complexity, and mission length. They're also building for a new intro arc but I think that only goes so far to explain why their newest content has been so straight forward and so often defaults to fighting Klingons (with very little context) in DSC corridors. Those are the building blocks they have to play with and it's difficult for them to branch out (like a Foundry author would) because the style of mission creation precludes economical improvisation (to anywhere near the same effect.)
For example, with the toolset I had to work with I could create a generic freighter interior from the customary wall bits but then change the height and width through the use of various floor/ceilings (playing to visceral human perception of space.) I could add simple lighting elements and other components to create a completely different feel for the same components. This also gave a lot of freedom when it came to the layout of the ship, the design of each room, and so on. The best example of this is my mission Shattered Relic. Cryptic can compare the generic freighter I use there with the one they've historically defaulted to to examine the strengths of each approach. Their usual method instead seems to use modular hallway sections built from scratch whenever they need a new type of interior (rather than using pre-fabricated components [eg. walls, floors] like we had in the Foundry.) This gives ultimate creative flexibility per their environment artists and some time saving (once the pieces are made) per modular construction of full maps when creating (say) and Federation interior in the DSC era but it makes it a LOT more difficult to branch out into other environments for more elaborated missions and connections in the broader universe. These parts aren't easily reassembled and are very proscriptive in their uses. Ergo missions with a smaller, restricted focus when they aren't able to simply throw more resources into custom environments (as we saw in ViL for example) and for as much as they built (adding to the asset library) mission creation doesn't get any easier (they're not using the game as a palette, instead running from new location to new location to hit points of cross advertising [as economicallly as possible] but without making use of the full span of the 2410 setting, in turn making their job easier.)
Basically, the way Cryptic builds missions is (in some respects) at odds with structural changes that have occurred recently for the STO team. It's not as effective now as it once was. This may result in a greater pressure to build more but the inability to deliver the content at a frequency or to a scale which matches player expectations as cultivated over STO's lifespan. Losing the Foundry is a very unfortunate component to this (if they were able to maintain it there is an immediate release built into the game to adjust for studio shifts and new pressures, everything I'm talking about is much less of a problem if the Foundry remained) but it isn't the extent of STO's long term problems. They need to build more but have less people to build it, at least from what we've been told so far. Enter an increasing focus on skinner box grinding mechanics to make up the difference (personal endeavors and the upcoming "participate for c-store ships", both of which seem lifted from emerging mechanics in other MMO's for full context.) But there's a better way: build like Foundry authors did. The system you're cutting provides a great demonstration for how to exploit the format and build lasting, organic connections with players with minimal investment (creative problem solving and effective writing compensates.) Use our missions as internal examples for how to efficiently make high quality content with forward looking and complex story arcs that can self-modulate per player interest and content preferences (see. TEXT BASED OPTIONAL DIALOG for world building and character, I didn't include this in all my missions for simple funsies. It's how you build more accessible missions for your player base without sacrificing character, world building, or depth or ballooning the mission budget with VO. It's an adaptive gameplay mechanism that broadens mission (missions are more or less involved depending on preference) appeal and yet gives more for players to latch onto [see increased dedication and retention]. And its best employed simply by letting writers write, this is a very symbiotic system that can be added to STO with no new feature development and little added work [see. what's done for short story posts. Think "like that but organically incorporated into the game.")
STO is an evolving game and that will ultimately come down to business decisions but within that remit there are ways of more constructively responding to pressures while meeting content demands (and incidentally opening new horizons for mission format as well.) With or without this lecture maybe the team moves that direction (perhaps its a question of anticipating pressure versus natural selection leading to that response more gradually) but I think the point to rest on is that from the roadmap Cryptic has not yet re-aligned STO to its new environment (per internal and external pressures) besides de-emphasizing their narrative in AoD (pre resource limitations) and leaning more on proscriptive grinding mechanics to hold the line. They can do better.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
From comments from Kael on Ten Forward from a few months back: the team isn't as large as it was (the studio is shifting to MTG, naturally given growth opportunities and potential for investment. You can also see that reflected in the current and recent job positions posted to Cryptic's website.) If you have new information, I'd be glad to see it sourced.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I don't see them changing the prototype leveling Walker because it would then conflict with the already existing T6 Walker. Also they would have to make a trait unique to that particular Walker and add in the T6 leveling mechanic as well, which again may conflict with the existing T6 Walker.
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colored text = mod mode
"Hired a number of new people" isn't a refutation though on Kael saying on Ten Forward (less than 5 months ago) that the team size is somewhat smaller in line with new studio direction (or at least this phase in MTG's production cycle.) That's a direct statement on net movement with transfers, turn-over, and hirings which we can also see reflected in the pace of content development through roadmaps 1 and 2. It's coming but at the longer end of the frequency distribution and in smaller, less involved form (not outside the historical norm but this isn't a new maximum for STO even as they've settled into a new equilibrium following the disruption of personnel shifts. It's a pressure on development.)
I'll also note that Westin has been working on the game for some time, he doesn't factor into this discussion (note: most visibly, your words. Westin's nearing 2 years at Cryptic.) New people have joined up more recently but unless there's an evaluation of the current team size from a very recent interview I'm going to have to take the direct statement on this topic over your interpretation of single data points. With the implementation of a new game there's somewhat less focus on STO at the company level (very, very natural), contributing to (though not wholly creating) a set of development challenges (from what we've been told on livestreams) for which there are constructive solutions beyond those we see on the roadmap and recent updates. Even under ideal circumstances for the STO team, they can improve content delivery as ranted on above.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Context is your friend. The new faction start, for a start, is an alternative starting experience making use of one elaborated mission to bring a new backstory to their characters. There's the challenge of hooking this up on the backend (big effort) and challenge of developing new assets for it but we know (from comments) that was a bit of a push right after ViL. You can also argue that there were secondary consequences to that effort through bugs of unprecedented magnitude cropping up in the tailor and Foundry (they were rushing to meet AoD). Ie. that this wasn't a simple linear increase in content development for which improvements are unnecessary to consider, there may have been some strain to meet this goal.
They did it, but by no means does this mean (per your ever evolving point of contradiction) that the STO team is working at a higher rate of development because it was also coupled with a relative drought in narrative content between ViL and AoD (there was no lead-in mission as we've seen with previous arcs) and other measures taken to economize but at some direct trade-offs to episode depth and story quality. Ie. "6 new missions" don't describe what those missions entail and how much went into their creation. AoD has effectively built itself from the DSC interior set with Pahvo, SFA, and FED tutorial colony standing as the major points of departure. A bit more went into the episodes comprising the arc that lead to ViL from objective sets to environment design. Notably, one of the two AoD missions was a one map rehash of the accompanying TFO. The two that accompanied Mirror of Discovery likewise opted for simpler mission structures (almost archetypal, excepting for Westin's amazing cutscene work and the Killy bossfight) and could have been written as a single episode (comparable in structure to Home in ViL.) The innovation is the punctuation, which I think worked out fine but it does complicate how you consider this release (could be one, but elaborated a bit to two.) Cryptic may be hitting the nominal expectations for new episodes every few months (at the longer side of "few" but not completely out of the norm) but there are some compromises being made to maintain that rate of development which would not be necessary if the team wasn't working under a bit more limitation (in line with Kael's comment but potentially also shifting content priorities or long-term investments we don't know about yet.)
And what about "5 new TFO's?" Well, we often see this number over the span of two seasons. But, that isn't often achieved through the measures we saw for Peril over Pahvo (and context: at this time last year we had a new FE, not a TFO reskin.) It's not an increase in content frequency if the number remains within statistical limits and additional conservation steps are taken to achieve it. Ditto ship releases, they've scaled back on the old c-store multifaction pack (requiem for ROM) to focus on single releases (often through stand-alone boxes). The last major lock box also lacked a Lobi accompaniment (there was just the Styx). More economical, also doesn't point to a major uptick in content sufficient to make your point.
And to be absolutely clear: I think these are natural development pressures (recently increased due to stated circumstances) and the response is to further accommodate for them and make more general improvements (content limitations also apply under ideal circumstances.)
Even if we're looking at comments re. team size as reflective of a very short-term dip for which Cryptic has pulled up from...the production lag time for content means that what we're seeing around this time is probably the product of that dip and even if the next major release is going to absolutely overshoot customary expectations the point stands that there are better ways for Cryptic to economize in future and further ways of improving player engagement through low cost, low effort mechanics such as I explained. Even if these aren't life or death considerations now its worth pursuing further innovations of format as indicated by what some Foundry authors achieved (learn from principles and experiment with mechanics.) Ie. no matter the quibbling re. exact numbers and internal production pipelines and at what capacity their operating now the point stands.
PS. Rise of Discovery is in May, not April. We have a new event next month (Apostate). Here's hoping but we'll have to see what it entails.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
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That is a very erroneous statement, since I hope the fact that I opened with it indicates that there are, in fact, people who do care about ship interiors. As well, the effort the Devs put into the revamp of the DS9 interior, developing the Galaxy Interior, developing the Discovery interiors, and the recent comments by some of the Devs about having players want to spend time in their game all point to the fact that interiors and the environments within the game are quite important to both the Devs and the playerbase, though it seems the Devs don't understand how much people come into the game for the chance to experience Star Trek. The Star Trek experience happens largely on the ships of the series (which is why each series is named for the ship it is set upon), so not having ship interiors that provide that experience is working against keeping those players the Devs say are the core of their playerbase. To say no one cares seems pretty myopic.
And, updating the interiors would require considerably less effort than the aforementioned projects, as the assets are already in the game and developed for use in the intro missions. It is not like they are things that would need to be produced wholesale. And, this is one of the things the Devs indicated many years ago that they were looking at doing, so it is not something they didn't have plans drawn up for. They simply didn't follow through on it.
Your reasoning is like saying the Alpha and Beta Quadrants' story is over as soon as the Delta Quadrant opened up. Yet, they are still being used for story content. Simply because a short storyline ends does not mean the overall story does not continue. The Delta Quadrant is a very large area of space, with only three destinations (the Jenolan Sphere, the Fleet Research Base, and Kobali Prime). Everything else has been left unused, and given how much the Spheres represent in both importance and threat, that they are just left without further storylines seems a drastic waste. And that doesn't even go into how many worlds and cultures exist in the Delta Quadrant to have storylines about.
Ultimately, the Delta Quadrant has been left unused by the Dev team as yesterday's thrill, with none of the possible and expected continuations one might expect. What are the Vaadwaur doing now (they are still bombarding Kobali Prime's capital, and they continue to revive their numbers)? How are the various civilizations in the Delta Quadrant dealing with the sudden influx of ships from the Sphere cruising between their systems and imposing their own regulations upon their affairs? What is going on with the Krenim and their efforts to rebuild and reconstruct their empire? What are the Borg doing in their domains? These are all story arcs that could involve the wasted space in the Quadrant, yet we seem to be expected to believe that all of the races in the Quadrant are not involved at all in anything that affects the Sphere. And that doesn't even touch on what is unknown within the vast reaches of 1/4th of a galaxy.
The Delta Quadrant is a vast area of space with thousands of stories to tell (hey, it's not like they made an entire series set there or anything), yet it sits unused and with the Spheres and those on them largely forgotten by the Alliance. That seems extremely unlikely, given how much they influenced events up until the Tzenkethi arc. So, yes....it has been -abandoned- by the Devs, with nothing coming out about it for years.
Could they have adapted some of the stuff from the missions we go aboard the Glenn and ISS Discovery? Probably. However to make it a fully functional interior they'd have to do some serious rework, which includes ready room, quarters, sickbay, ect. Rooms we currently don't have in game. And I believe Tacofangs once said that the development time for interiors was just about the same as for missions or something like that.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Gamma quadrant was a desolate wasteland when it arrived and has no reason to visit once you slog through the missions. (Remember when it came out and folk said remember delta expansion, wait for the 2nd half and all we got was a single episode with a huge gap in plot between it and the previous ones not to mention the crappy fallback of we all live happily ever after
Oh and odo gets to snog kira during a death or glory gunfight so that must make it good, right. Then again they're probably bored of timed defenses themselves by now so may as well do something reproductive with their time.
The thing is, the assets are already developed in the form of the interiors of the Introduction missions. The development time to put them in place as standard ship interiors would be a fraction of what it would take to do a completely new interior or, by extension, missions.
As for the galaxy interior, I think you got that backwards. They were working on the Galaxy interior as a way to celebrate the Anniversary of TNG, and the mission was developed to show it to the playerbase (much as the Kelvin missions were meant to highlight the Kelvin Constitution and bridge, and the Delta arc involving the Voyager and its interior was developed to present those to the players). This sort of thing has been going on for a very long time in the game, and is even a selling point of ships ( the description of many new ships includes the 'Custom Bridge' as a feature cited when the ship is unveiled).
Ultimately, though, the failure to implement an update to the standard interiors is just one more example in a line of unfinished work the Devs have left in the wake of the content they have put out. I'm just very disappointed that they seem uninterested in working on what they have with the same enthusiasm as they do working on what they will put in.
> dkeith2011 wrote: »
>
> I hope that means ALL ships will scale with character level.
>
>
>
> In past livestreams they have talked about it being focused on T6 ships scaling. That might have changed, but, given that we know so far, its only intended for T6.
I would at least add T5u ships.
> duncanidaho11 wrote: »
>
> That worked (IMO) up until VIL but with AoD the studio shifted people away from STO to focus on MTG. That left a smaller team to live up to the old standard
>
>
>
> Except they have hired around half a dozen new people to replace the ones that went to MTG.
what is MTG?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
not talking about the foundry,
i am talking about all the other stuff that were supposedly chopped from the game to be reworked i mean okay it's an mmo instances (tfo's and such) are supposed to be the end game content.
but doing the same instances over and over and doing the newer(and fewer) episodes over and over gets boring after a time.
when we had the exploration missions(exploration, diplomatic and the first contact missions) we had something else to do when the instances get boring now the closest thing to this is making a klingon or klingon allied and go to the nebulas to blow up some ships and the patrol sorties...
when there was this kinda sandbox part it was semi random simple missions that added some flavor to the game.
also i know the concept of scalling ships the TOS connie is or was such ship im curious about what they will implement with such a broad term "ships level with you" i am just back >>at the forums<<
spocked thumb face...
Exploration cluster missions were not "sandbox" elements, but randomized instances that were crafted together by picking different parameters and pasting them in as a encounter. There was no telling what would come up, but often times what would come up would be buggy. I honestly hated it, especially that once you got through with it, there was no way to follow up later or revisit the area.
On the note of scaling ships, the TOS Connie was never a scaling ship. What you're thinking of is the Phasers that came with the ship, which scaled up until level 50.
What's being talked about is having the Tier 6 ships being available for low level players and allowing them to scale and grow with the player and allowing them to fly a ship that they want on that character through endgame.
Yeah, Mad Libs is a sandbox, because it allows you to be creative. Having the Mad Libs already filled out for you is not a sandbox, it's side content. I'm sure some people liked it, for whatever reasons, but, as you said, it was just a series of disjointed snapshots with not a whiff of continuity among them.