But they can control what happens to players who don't finish missions.
Assuming they can determine if someone is truly AFK or if they are lagging due to the "computers between them and the player".
Ping variables... If someone suddenly has a ping in minutes instead of microseconds then the game should count them as disconnected. If the game detects that same account logging into the account server within minutes of the end of the TFO then the game should count them as disconnected. In no case should the game give them a leaver penalty because they weren't in the TFO when it completed.
Which is why the penalty is so mild as-is.
Also, detecting the difference the difference between someone losing signal accidentally or shutting off their connection? good luck writing an algorithm for that.
I don't believe that there's any way their system could tell the difference between someone being involuntarily disconnected or simply shutting off their computer. As it is, it cannot tell when someone is actually AFKing and gaming the system or just underperforming in a queue or switiching characters to AFK.
I'd gladly eat an account-wide leaver penalty if I got accidently disconnected, if the penalty also got those that purposefully abandoned a TFO.
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> @warpangel said: > ltminns wrote: » > > I tell you an AFK Penalty of making all Characters on an Account play at no greater than a Captain (30) for 40 hours would cool their jets pretty quick. Tier 4 Ships, Mk VIII equipment max. You'd have to tighten up the parameters though. > > > > Lol. Considering we are talking about the kind of content you can finish just by staying in the map until the timer runs out, that's obviously of no consequence.
They would not be able to participate in much of the TFO content or do any other activity (Mission) that has a Level requirement.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'd gladly eat an account-wide leaver penalty if I got accidently disconnected, if the penalty also got those that purposefully abandoned a TFO.
I would not.
I hardly care if I lose an unknown, random team-mate every once in a while in a TFO as most maps can be completed easily by incomplete teams anyway. If more than one leaves the remaining 3 do not get a penalty at all by the way so nothing is lost if an incomplete group decides to quit the match.
On the other hand I loose friends and fleet mates to disconnect (technical issues) regularly. No 2h PvE session goes by where I don’t lose at least one friend or fleet mate to a random disconnect. Now if they’d be out of the game for 30mins account-wide every time then, that would be a major problem and mega annoying.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I'd gladly eat an account-wide leaver penalty if I got accidently disconnected, if the penalty also got those that purposefully abandoned a TFO.
I would not.
I hardly care if I lose an unknown, random team-mate every once in a while in a TFO as most maps can be completed easily by incomplete teams anyway. If more than one leaves the remaining 3 do not get a penalty at all by the way so nothing is lost if an incomplete group decides to quit the match.
On the other hand I loose friends and fleet mates to disconnect (technical issues) regularly. No 2h PvE session goes by where I don’t lose at least one friend or fleet mate to a random disconnect. Now if they’d be out of the game for 30mins account-wide every time then, that would be a major problem and mega annoying.
Agreed.
STO's servers are notoriously unreliable. Given that it's impossible from the server side to distinguish between an intentional and unintentional disconnect, assuming all disconnects are intentional and imposing an account wide penalty is heavy handed, short sided, and just an overall horrible idea.
I don't believe that there's any way their system could tell the difference between someone being involuntarily disconnected or simply shutting off their computer. As it is, it cannot tell when someone is actually AFKing and gaming the system or just underperforming in a queue or switiching characters to AFK.
I'd gladly eat an account-wide leaver penalty if I got accidently disconnected, if the penalty also got those that purposefully abandoned a TFO.
I wouldn't. This is like a basic justice principle that 99 thieves can get away so that 1 single innocent man won't be condemned.
I think there should be a better method at discerning the troll from the user that really is in the situation where the AFK penalty doesn't justify.
Recently I was stuck in the first phase of the CCA. I came after the 2nd absorbtion and freaking burst-shot the crystalline entity. And still got an AFK penalty. (It was a server-wise freeze/rubberband situation).
Personally I think the variation of the FF14 method would be good where you wouldn't be able to swap characters while in a queue (FF14 prevents Job swapping which would be essentially same as character swapping in STO, actually swapping characters would just make you loose your slot in the group and they could replace you), with an option to refill already on progress groups in case of DCs/ragequits.
Except STO does NOT have quests where you have to wait for a set time while shooting your way through a horde. It has quests where you just have to wait. Whatever horde is there is completely irrelevant, you don't have to shoot them and there is no consequence to not shooting them. They will just disappear when the time is over and the mission will continue exactly the same no matter what you did or did not do.
Except shooting through a horde is literally what Mirror Invasion is. Just like the horde will vanish, or just stop making new enemies, once the "gate" or w/e is opened/completed in other dungeons or similar content.
No, it's not. It's a timed wait during which you are not required to do anything at all.
By making it impossible to increase their DPS, DPS players would have no reason to play the game at all.
The "balance pass" was an utter disaster that should be avoided like a plague in the future. The game needs more reason to play, not less.
If your only reason to play a game is to up your numbers, even when upping your numbers means nothing because you have already long since passed the point where you reach overkill, then you are doing something for literally no reason. And that begs the question, why do you even care to get your numbers higher at that point?
The balance pass was one of the best points in the game's history because it showed Cryptic actually gave two flips about good game design, if even for two seconds. Not to mention lowering the DPS from insane overkill to just overkill doesn't give you less reason to play the game.... what are you even going on about?
"Upping your numbers" is what most games are fundamentally about. Regardless of what those numbers are.
Thank you for demonstrating your complete disregard for other players.
The joke of an AFK penalty has never caught an AFKer and never will. Buffing it up would, however, be even more effective in beating on newbies who haven't been told they have an invisible DPS quota to fill.
The AFK penalty is useless. As long as Cryptic designs content where nothing is required to win, players will win it by doing nothing. If you don't like the way other players win the content, whine at Cryptic for designing it to be won like that.
I've seen it hit several AFKers because I've seen those AFKers complain about it.
Only people I've ever heard complain about it are newbies or people who got SNR. Efficiency-oriented players know what they're doing and don't stumble onto juvenile newbie-traps like that.
Except people don't do Mirror Hell for bonus marks, they do it for the event token. The unique is the reason to play, and no amount of optional peanuts is going to change that.
I never said they did it for that reason, I said increasing the bonus marks would give them more reason to play that part. TFO events are one of the biggest mark farm times in the game, and people frequently use them to stock up on all kinds of marks quickly.
Mirror Hell has never been time-efficient for any reward other than the unique token, so only people who don't know better would farm anything else in it.
Personally I think the variation of the FF14 method would be good where you wouldn't be able to swap characters while in a queue (FF14 prevents Job swapping which would be essentially same as character swapping in STO, actually swapping characters would just make you loose your slot in the group and they could replace you), with an option to refill already on progress groups in case of DCs/ragequits.
Well it’s funny as STO has done it that way for public PvE for a long time. I can only guess that players were unhappy about it so cryptic changed it. You know, we never got any open communication about the whole topic or the logic behind it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
> @peterconnorfirst said: > Well it’s funny as STO has done it that way for public PvE for a long time. I can only guess that players were unhappy about it so cryptic changed it. You know, we never got any open communication about the whole topic or the logic behind it.
You know, until they pulled the Red Alerts out completely to make them 'Events' we never had any communication at all about Red Alerts from when they decided to make Red Alerts PVE Queues, including that they were making them Queues.
So no big surprise there.
I never even knew you could switch Characters in a Queue.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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Yeah, people are way too carried away in here. It's a game. Your way of life isn't on the line if you get penalized in a video game.
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Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
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"Upping your numbers" is what most games are fundamentally about. Regardless of what those numbers are.
Thank you for demonstrating your complete disregard for other players.
Wholly incorrect. Most games are about experiencing some sort of adventure or narrative. Upping your numbers is merely a means to an end, and not the point of most games. Hell, upping your numbers is really only important in RPGs, since most other kinds of games lack those kinds of character progression systems. Even in RPGs upping your number is only necessary to the point where you can beat the game, and past that its pointless, which is why developers take measures to ensure that going past that point is impossible via game balancing.
No, they're not. In fact nowhere near all games even have any kind of adventure or narrative at all, and extremely few where they are the main point. Many players will just skip the cutscenes and the talking to get to the gameplay.
And gameplay, success in gameplay, is usually measured in numbers. Character stats, levels complete, win/loss ratios, enemies killed, items/money collected, or even an arbitrary point score.
In general it's impossible to "beat" an MMORPG at all, because there is no end condition, no Final Boss to kill, no princess in the other castle to save. Players can only improve themselves and collect stuff, unless and until they get bored and quit. Which is why developers SHOULD take measures to ensure that there is always something more to reach for so players don't get bored.
Only people I've ever heard complain about it are newbies or people who got SNR. Efficiency-oriented players know what they're doing and don't stumble onto juvenile newbie-traps like that
I've heard several people who try to AFK TFOs get hit by it.
And I haven't. Guess I know more successful players, then.
Mirror Hell has never been time-efficient for any reward other than the unique token, so only people who don't know better would farm anything else in it.
It isn't about "efficiency", this is a video game, not a work project spreadsheet about cost analysis. Many people use the featured TFO events to farm marks because lots of people are doing them, and they reward every kind of mark, making getting some marks like the competitive and Iconian ones, which are a bit harder to obtain then the others, easier.
That's changing the subject. Mirror Invasion is not "the featured TFO events." We can't determine the time-efficiency of FTFO before they're released since they are always new missions.
I would indeed expect "many people" do farm MI, because they don't know better. Which is exactly what I already said. But then those players do probably play the stupid optionals, too...because they don't know better.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,681Community Moderator
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Those 21-day Events will be converted to Featured TFOs when they do return.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Comments
Also, detecting the difference the difference between someone losing signal accidentally or shutting off their connection? good luck writing an algorithm for that.
My character Tsin'xing
I'd gladly eat an account-wide leaver penalty if I got accidently disconnected, if the penalty also got those that purposefully abandoned a TFO.
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> ltminns wrote: »
>
> I tell you an AFK Penalty of making all Characters on an Account play at no greater than a Captain (30) for 40 hours would cool their jets pretty quick. Tier 4 Ships, Mk VIII equipment max. You'd have to tighten up the parameters though.
>
>
>
> Lol. Considering we are talking about the kind of content you can finish just by staying in the map until the timer runs out, that's obviously of no consequence.
They would not be able to participate in much of the TFO content or do any other activity (Mission) that has a Level requirement.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I would not.
I hardly care if I lose an unknown, random team-mate every once in a while in a TFO as most maps can be completed easily by incomplete teams anyway. If more than one leaves the remaining 3 do not get a penalty at all by the way so nothing is lost if an incomplete group decides to quit the match.
On the other hand I loose friends and fleet mates to disconnect (technical issues) regularly. No 2h PvE session goes by where I don’t lose at least one friend or fleet mate to a random disconnect. Now if they’d be out of the game for 30mins account-wide every time then, that would be a major problem and mega annoying.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Agreed.
STO's servers are notoriously unreliable. Given that it's impossible from the server side to distinguish between an intentional and unintentional disconnect, assuming all disconnects are intentional and imposing an account wide penalty is heavy handed, short sided, and just an overall horrible idea.
I wouldn't. This is like a basic justice principle that 99 thieves can get away so that 1 single innocent man won't be condemned.
I think there should be a better method at discerning the troll from the user that really is in the situation where the AFK penalty doesn't justify.
Recently I was stuck in the first phase of the CCA. I came after the 2nd absorbtion and freaking burst-shot the crystalline entity. And still got an AFK penalty. (It was a server-wise freeze/rubberband situation).
"Upping your numbers" is what most games are fundamentally about. Regardless of what those numbers are.
Thank you for demonstrating your complete disregard for other players.
Only people I've ever heard complain about it are newbies or people who got SNR. Efficiency-oriented players know what they're doing and don't stumble onto juvenile newbie-traps like that.
Mirror Hell has never been time-efficient for any reward other than the unique token, so only people who don't know better would farm anything else in it.
Well it’s funny as STO has done it that way for public PvE for a long time. I can only guess that players were unhappy about it so cryptic changed it. You know, we never got any open communication about the whole topic or the logic behind it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
> Well it’s funny as STO has done it that way for public PvE for a long time. I can only guess that players were unhappy about it so cryptic changed it. You know, we never got any open communication about the whole topic or the logic behind it.
You know, until they pulled the Red Alerts out completely to make them 'Events' we never had any communication at all about Red Alerts from when they decided to make Red Alerts PVE Queues, including that they were making them Queues.
So no big surprise there.
I never even knew you could switch Characters in a Queue.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
You're making it sound as though they are going out of their way to target you. You're making it personal.
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You don't have to do anything at all to or about the horde.
No, they're not. In fact nowhere near all games even have any kind of adventure or narrative at all, and extremely few where they are the main point. Many players will just skip the cutscenes and the talking to get to the gameplay.
And gameplay, success in gameplay, is usually measured in numbers. Character stats, levels complete, win/loss ratios, enemies killed, items/money collected, or even an arbitrary point score.
In general it's impossible to "beat" an MMORPG at all, because there is no end condition, no Final Boss to kill, no princess in the other castle to save. Players can only improve themselves and collect stuff, unless and until they get bored and quit. Which is why developers SHOULD take measures to ensure that there is always something more to reach for so players don't get bored.
And I haven't. Guess I know more successful players, then.
That's changing the subject. Mirror Invasion is not "the featured TFO events." We can't determine the time-efficiency of FTFO before they're released since they are always new missions.
I would indeed expect "many people" do farm MI, because they don't know better. Which is exactly what I already said. But then those players do probably play the stupid optionals, too...because they don't know better.
Or maybe... they want to... I don't know... actually play the game?
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My character Tsin'xing