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Rise of the TFO trolls

questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 6,860 Arc User
Lately i have noticed that there is a rise in the amount of TFO trolls who make use of the Random TFO mechanic which fills up a TFO once someone has queued for it. Once the TFO has started, they switch characters leaving the remaining members shorthanded.

One queue which IMO is particular vulnerable to this the Herald Sphere with the numerous time gates and cut scenes.
Has anyone else experienced this and which TFO are also vulnerable.

Should certain TFO be removed from the list due to their vulnerability to trolls? Or should people who queued for a TFO the regular way simply not be allowed to switch characters.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 12,716 Arc User
    edited March 4
    Have experienced a few instances of various TFO's where this has occurred.

    Couldn't say for certain that those players character-swapped but have certainly found myself as one of a four or three-person team in the TFO's that tend to run a little longer - most noticably (to me anyway) Swarm Advanced, Breach Advanced and Borg Disconnected Advanced.

    Genuine query here - if they character swap as oposed to simply 'quitting', don't they get a leaver penalty on the character that did enter the instance?

    Can't help but wonder if there aren't some players who queue for random but bail unless it drops them in something specific, such as ISA perhaps?
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  • mephizton2092mephizton2092 Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    Experienced several people leaving when they joined a ground TFO.

    We shouldnt reward this people with adjusting the system so there playstyle. If they sign up for random they want it for the dil or to join a random TFO.
    "Reports of our depression are vastly exaggerated."
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  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,226 Arc User
    I've had a couple instances of this happening. Though I can't say for sure if this is the case. They may have disconnected and done a safe login, which drops them in Beta Quad. So there is this to consider.

    As far as ground, I haven't ran into this problem. Plus there aren't any ground TFO's you can't complete with 4 people. Minimum is 3. The main example of this are:

    Infected Manus ground
    Khitomer Ground
    Cure Ground
    Brotherhood of the Sword

    Cheating_zps1brwslhb.jpg
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,091 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    Lately i have noticed that there is a rise in the amount of TFO trolls who make use of the Random TFO mechanic which fills up a TFO once someone has queued for it. Once the TFO has started, they switch characters leaving the remaining members shorthanded.

    One queue which IMO is particular vulnerable to this the Herald Sphere with the numerous time gates and cut scenes.
    Has anyone else experienced this and which TFO are also vulnerable.

    Should certain TFO be removed from the list due to their vulnerability to trolls? Or should people who queued for a TFO the regular way simply not be allowed to switch characters.
    To what end are they doing this - just to wreck things for others? They should be switching characters straight into a leaver penalty.

    I sometimes play on a reasonably new W10 laptop that still locks up once in a blue moon and it used to be that if I could reboot it before the 'STF' ended and do some damage I wouldn't be penalized. Recently in TFO's I've gotten a leaver penalty 100% of the time after doing a hard shutdown and placed back into non-combat. Would expect the same if you switch toons.

    It would be nice if the penalty had the possibility to escalate similar to other mechanics such as the report function in chat does if certain thresholds are met. In this case perhaps a threshold on leaver penalties? Perhaps there is one and we just don't know it (a pleasant thought).

    It frankly dumbfounds me why anybody would engage in this sort of behavior.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 6,860 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    questerius wrote: »
    Lately i have noticed that there is a rise in the amount of TFO trolls who make use of the Random TFO mechanic which fills up a TFO once someone has queued for it. Once the TFO has started, they switch characters leaving the remaining members shorthanded.

    One queue which IMO is particular vulnerable to this the Herald Sphere with the numerous time gates and cut scenes.
    Has anyone else experienced this and which TFO are also vulnerable.

    Should certain TFO be removed from the list due to their vulnerability to trolls? Or should people who queued for a TFO the regular way simply not be allowed to switch characters.
    To what end are they doing this - just to wreck things for others? They should be switching characters straight into a leaver penalty.

    It frankly dumbfounds me why anybody would engage in this sort of behavior.

    That's the assumption.
    I feel it is kind of immature to act like this, but did we not see similar behavior with e.g. cover shield trolls?

    For the moment it is a loophole that leaving a TFO by switching characters does not give a leaver penalty.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 1,744 Community Moderator
    The times I have seen it was when someone pressed the random TFO button, got a mission they didn't like, and just bailed. It's a very jerk move to do to the other players in that queue. If you want to guarantee you won't have to do certain queues, then queue specifically for what you're after, otherwise don't press the random button if you're not prepared to do whatever queue it gives you. I personally would love to see an account wide leaver penalty of a good 5 hours or so. Leaving for real life reasons is one thing, in which case I would say go handle your business. However leaving just because you don't like the queue you were given is childish.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

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  • pomonagrange#3097 pomonagrange Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    The perennial problem is this: The more the troll annoys (and/or torments) someone, the more the troll enjoys it. Especially since these days they can do it practically with impunity and (supposed) superiority, and (worst, in my opinion) from a position of anonymity (how will they be tracked down and punished for what they've said and/or done?).

    If, like me, you've been a victim of bullies (of various kinds) since childhood, it's not that hard to figure out their reasoning. I've tried to forgive the bully, but it gets harder and harder. Eventually I just try to forget about them (not always successfully, however) and put them behind me (one advantage of getting older; you might just be able to outlive the bully or bullies). That way I can try to live my life as best I can without them ruining every single part of it.
  • tvalavulcantvalavulcan Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    The ones who leave are the reason I have quit doing randoms. I got tired of doing 3 person queues. An account wide penalty I would go for.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,226 Arc User
    The times I have seen it was when someone pressed the random TFO button, got a mission they didn't like, and just bailed. It's a very jerk move to do to the other players in that queue. If you want to guarantee you won't have to do certain queues, then queue specifically for what you're after, otherwise don't press the random button if you're not prepared to do whatever queue it gives you. I personally would love to see an account wide leaver penalty of a good 5 hours or so. Leaving for real life reasons is one thing, in which case I would say go handle your business. However leaving just because you don't like the queue you were given is childish.

    While I agree on all points here. I think we can all admit, they're using random TFO, because they want to random TFO reward.

    I also understand some of the reasoning behind it. Some just don't like ground TFOs and only want space ones. Some want the random TFO reward for the easy and quick usual ones, that use to be run before hand ISA, KSA, CCA, and such. You know the super easy one.

    However here, the jokes on them. They take the 30 minute leavers queue, and most TFO's are done in 15 minutes or so. So while they've had to wait that 30 minutes, those of us that have done it, have already moved on to our second random TFO. We're getting more rewards than they are. Because even if that alt, there's no guarantee they'll get a TFO they want. So, while those of us that are hanging in there and doing the TFOs that come up on random and gaining the rewards. They're having to alt, potentially losing the rewards on multiple characters at a time.

    Their loss, our gain.

    Personally, I see this as a blessing. If they leave, that means we're sort one. It also means I don't have an afker in said TFO getting free rewards.

    Though, I do suppose they could setup a system for this. An account detection system to tracks the leaver penalty. Which they could use to impose a temporary, account-wide TFO lockout. The problem here would be on how to set it to where it doesn't punish those that get DCed for it, and use safe login. If I DC during a TFO, which generally always happens at the starting map change, I do normal login so I can jump right back into said TFO. The safe login drops you in Beta Quad, with no way to rejoin the TFO you were in. which gets you hit with the leavers penalty. Maybe adding a "Rejoin TFO" for this would be best.
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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 12,716 Arc User
    edited March 4
    The times I have seen it was when someone pressed the random TFO button, got a mission they didn't like, and just bailed. It's a very jerk move to do to the other players in that queue. If you want to guarantee you won't have to do certain queues, then queue specifically for what you're after, otherwise don't press the random button if you're not prepared to do whatever queue it gives you. I personally would love to see an account wide leaver penalty of a good 5 hours or so. Leaving for real life reasons is one thing, in which case I would say go handle your business. However leaving just because you don't like the queue you were given is childish.

    Good points.

    The circumstances that prompt me to bail tends to be Real Life.

    My primary gaming time is evening; I have a four year old daughter who is in bed at the time I am online. If she wakes I attend to her. Period. I try to apologise in team chat but that's not always possible. Although saying that, as harsh at this may sound - I really couldn't care less if my responsibilties as a parent inconvienience a random team instance in a game.
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  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 3,769 Arc User
    I actually forgot about the random TFO option. I've been using all my time for the endeavors. I guess I've also made some good use out of the random function by queuing up for particular ones that I need then having them filled by the randoms - which may really be the best part of the feature.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

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  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,226 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    The times I have seen it was when someone pressed the random TFO button, got a mission they didn't like, and just bailed. It's a very jerk move to do to the other players in that queue. If you want to guarantee you won't have to do certain queues, then queue specifically for what you're after, otherwise don't press the random button if you're not prepared to do whatever queue it gives you. I personally would love to see an account wide leaver penalty of a good 5 hours or so. Leaving for real life reasons is one thing, in which case I would say go handle your business. However leaving just because you don't like the queue you were given is childish.

    Good points.

    The circumstances that prompt me to bail tends to be Real Life.

    My primary gaming time is evening; I have a four year old daughter who is in bed at the time I am online. If she wakes I attend to her. Period. I try to apologise in team chat but that's not always posisble. Although saying that, as harsh at this may sound - I really couldn't care less if my responsibilties as a parent inconvienience a random team instance in a game.

    Anyone that would belittle this, really needs to get their head unstuck from the three points of contact.

    Wait... no... that might be a bad idea. It might require them to visit a Proctologist and keep them from the game.
    Cheating_zps1brwslhb.jpg
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 12,716 Arc User
    edited March 4
    trennan wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    The times I have seen it was when someone pressed the random TFO button, got a mission they didn't like, and just bailed. It's a very jerk move to do to the other players in that queue. If you want to guarantee you won't have to do certain queues, then queue specifically for what you're after, otherwise don't press the random button if you're not prepared to do whatever queue it gives you. I personally would love to see an account wide leaver penalty of a good 5 hours or so. Leaving for real life reasons is one thing, in which case I would say go handle your business. However leaving just because you don't like the queue you were given is childish.

    Good points.

    The circumstances that prompt me to bail tends to be Real Life.

    My primary gaming time is evening; I have a four year old daughter who is in bed at the time I am online. If she wakes I attend to her. Period. I try to apologise in team chat but that's not always posisble. Although saying that, as harsh at this may sound - I really couldn't care less if my responsibilties as a parent inconvienience a random team instance in a game.

    Anyone that would belittle this, really needs to get their head unstuck from the three points of contact.

    Wait... no... that might be a bad idea. It might require them to visit a Proctologist and keep them from the game.

    Well, that isn't to say it happens often. In fact it is, fortunately, extremely infrequent - but nonetheless...
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,846 Arc User
    They aren't trolls, just selfish people exploiting the system to get the extra reward from the random queue without actually playing a random queue.

    As I've said before, people who do this should be locked out from the RTFO bonus reward, account-wide.
  • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 811 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    Lately i have noticed that there is a rise in the amount of TFO trolls who make use of the Random TFO mechanic which fills up a TFO once someone has queued for it. Once the TFO has started, they switch characters leaving the remaining members shorthanded.

    One queue which IMO is particular vulnerable to this the Herald Sphere with the numerous time gates and cut scenes.
    Has anyone else experienced this and which TFO are also vulnerable.

    Should certain TFO be removed from the list due to their vulnerability to trolls? Or should people who queued for a TFO the regular way simply not be allowed to switch characters.

    No, I would suggest two features instead.

    1) The ability to leave without penalty after one person leaves. This combined with the feature that if you change toons or disconnect (for more than say 2 minutes) then your toon gets removed from the queue and the rest can leave freely. Also make the penalty for leaving first (or pulling this stunt) account wide instead.


    2) A 'summon reinforcement' feature. Yes I know that a lot of people don't like this idea as they think it'll mean they'll get pulled into queues with the optionals failed (the horror) or just general clusterfucks. While I can sympathize with at least the latter I'd suggest that maybe there's a time limit to how long into the TFO you can summon reinforcements. Like maybe after 5 minutes run time reinforcements are no longer possible?

    Bonus suggestions) Give us a 'vote to abandon' feature.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,644 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    They aren't trolls, just selfish people exploiting the system to get the extra reward from the random queue without actually playing a random queue.

    As I've said before, people who do this should be locked out from the RTFO bonus reward, account-wide.

    I don't see how abandoning the STF before its completed gives people the random rewards...
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • starcruiser#3423 starcruiser Member Posts: 522 Arc User
    Due to Endeavors (universal and personal) this might have increased. Many times it asks do X kills, heals or damage and people just leave after getting the endeavor. I have seen more people doing space stuff like Voth space battlezone, tzenkethi and mirror but why blame them? Cryptic should redesign the requirements.

    Other times players just leave a TFO if they don't like. Some people avoid ground like a plague but I'm sure it happens to some space pves as well. Again, this was an intended feature that comes along with RNG.​​
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,133 Arc User
    > @starcruiser#3423 said:
    > Due to Endeavors (universal and personal) this might have increased. Many times it asks do X kills, heals or damage and people just leave after getting the endeavor. I have seen more people doing space stuff like Voth space battlezone, tzenkethi and mirror but why blame them? Cryptic should redesign the requirements.
    >
    > Other times players just leave a TFO if they don't like. Some people avoid ground like a plague but I'm sure it happens to some space pves as well. Again, this was an intended feature that comes along with RNG.​​

    All of those are examples of TRIBBLE moves. Pure and simple. If you start the mission finish it, don't be a punk.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 3,296 Arc User
    edited March 4
    The times I have seen it was when someone pressed the random TFO button, got a mission they didn't like, and just bailed. It's a very jerk move to do to the other players in that queue. If you want to guarantee you won't have to do certain queues, then queue specifically for what you're after, otherwise don't press the random button if you're not prepared to do whatever queue it gives you. I personally would love to see an account wide leaver penalty of a good 5 hours or so. Leaving for real life reasons is one thing, in which case I would say go handle your business. However leaving just because you don't like the queue you were given is childish.

    Agree on this....and they're doing it because the system won't penalise them with a leaver penalty, probably because the instance hasn't started until the mission briefing 'time-slot' has expired.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • spielman1spielman1 Member Posts: 978 Arc User
    Issue is most players leave a que not cause they want to per say in some cases it is that they know the team will f the mission up and force a lower reward for twice the work so most just say TRIBBLE it and leave. I don't blame theme for this as why put in twice the work the other player does doing ALL OBJECTIVES TO INCLUDE SECONDARIES just to have the team not do ALL OBKECTIVES URPOSLY so that other don't get as good a reward for it. You want players to stop leaving stop making objectives time slotted so they always fail and reduced reward for players that are doing most of the work and stop making all mission DPS only way TRIBBLE other play styles.
    I know this isn't a popular view and I do understand it angers players but I don't blame for leaving TFO or any mission if the secondary's are lost, reduced reward for doing twice the work due to a team that doesn't read objectives and complete theme. It isn't really anyone fault but if you want it to stop making leaver penalties worse wont solve the problem as it doesn't address why they leave in the first place. Punishing a player for leaving a TFO due to the team not completing objectives and they know the team wont do theme as when you play enough of theme certain names and play styles stick out and scream very loud.
    Same problem with most PVE TFO and or PVP why try when the team will just fail the objectives anyway, forcing a reduced reward in all areas and they never get punished for it not the one trying but the ones purposely tossing the objectives for a reduced reward cause Player B isn't playing players A way. There more to it then just screaming punish theme look at why they are leaving for various reasons and start taking on the challenge as a community and as a company to promote good playing threw actual reward for work done, not for objectives completed. If player B is in a fight and doesn't die here is a bonus, if player doesn't die the whole match and yet still manages good damage out put here is another bonus. If Player A dies there reward should be reduced reason being you are not helping the team dead for 30 seconds that is 30 seconds you are helping so reduced reward.
    I have more player die in a TFO cause they refuse to use something called armor so they die in 30 seconds in the match, cry to the team cause they are in an escort playing cruiser instead of playing as a escort. Those player are cause other players to leave TFO as why try when the one player that doesn't die in a TFO has to do 2 or 3 other players work for a reduced reward. This isn't popular but it is the truth and needs be looked at with honesty and impartial treatment.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,846 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    They aren't trolls, just selfish people exploiting the system to get the extra reward from the random queue without actually playing a random queue.

    As I've said before, people who do this should be locked out from the RTFO bonus reward, account-wide.

    I don't see how abandoning the STF before its completed gives people the random rewards...
    Well, if I have to spell it out: They queue for the random and leave until they get a mission they like, thus getting the reward for a random queue but still effectively choosing what mission they play.
    leemwatson wrote: »
    The times I have seen it was when someone pressed the random TFO button, got a mission they didn't like, and just bailed. It's a very jerk move to do to the other players in that queue. If you want to guarantee you won't have to do certain queues, then queue specifically for what you're after, otherwise don't press the random button if you're not prepared to do whatever queue it gives you. I personally would love to see an account wide leaver penalty of a good 5 hours or so. Leaving for real life reasons is one thing, in which case I would say go handle your business. However leaving just because you don't like the queue you were given is childish.

    Agree on this....and they're doing it because the system won't penalise them with a leaver penalty, probably because the instance hasn't started until the mission briefing 'time-slot' has expired.
    That's not it. You can in fact get leaver penalty before you've even loaded the map. I'd expect you're on the hook as soon as you accept the queue start. They are avoiding the penalty by exploiting a bug in the system.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,644 Arc User
    So... punish people who don't "measure up" to a percieved standard like some of the elitists in the DPS Community who give said community a bad name?
    Also sounds like "reward DPS mentality and slap anyone who doesn't follow DE WEY OF DEEPS with punishment".
    Not everyone can reach high DPS numbers, and its not because they don't want to. Its because of playstyle and not wanting to min/max cookie cutter builds. Calling for punishing people over their builds will not encourage players to get better, it will encourage Elitists to ramp up their discrimination against people who don't "measure up" to their standards.

    And let me ask this... HOW would one of those players who "knows that the team is gonna F up" knows that before the mission even starts? You don't know what gear they're running. You don't know what damage type they're using. All you know is the ship. So are we gonna start discriminating against ships now too? "Oh you're flying this ship so YOU SUCK! I'm out." Is that how we're gonna treat the playerbase now?
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,640 Arc User
    They can tell you s*ck right away if they don't see more than thirty Buff icons on your ship. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
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  • spielman1spielman1 Member Posts: 978 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    So... punish people who don't "measure up" to a percieved standard like some of the elitists in the DPS Community who give said community a bad name?
    Also sounds like "reward DPS mentality and slap anyone who doesn't follow DE WEY OF DEEPS with punishment".
    Not everyone can reach high DPS numbers, and its not because they don't want to. Its because of playstyle and not wanting to min/max cookie cutter builds. Calling for punishing people over their builds will not encourage players to get better, it will encourage Elitists to ramp up their discrimination against people who don't "measure up" to their standards.

    And let me ask this... HOW would one of those players who "knows that the team is gonna F up" knows that before the mission even starts? You don't know what gear they're running. You don't know what damage type they're using. All you know is the ship. So are we gonna start discriminating against ships now too? "Oh you're flying this ship so YOU SUCK! I'm out." Is that how we're gonna treat the playerbase now?

    No I have seen Cruiser with Armor die faster than escorts with no Armor I'm not saying punish players for there builds, build what you want, I am saying punish players that don't contribute to the team win how is it fair a player that has a good build not the best but good enough do more work than a player that dies more times than one can count and still that players is rewarded for contributing less effort and damage to a win when said player is dead longer than said player I alive.
    How is it that fair to a player that was in a Miranda lived longer, did more work, and put in more effort than a Fleet tier 6 ship that said he would carry the team and was dead in 30 seconds into the match when asked why he said he did it on purpose to reduce other rewards cause they didn't use his or her build.
    If your gonna punish player don't base it on there build that wont fix anything but base it on how they are contributing or playing, if a player is dead how is it fair to force others to carry that player for 30 seconds so they can come back in be dead again in 30 seconds making the surviving player work harder, put in more effort, and put in more over all goo for a team at a reduced reward.
    That isn't fair as you are punishing all players for what a few have caused, trust me play long enough and certain player names you begin to remember so leave for the fact they make you work harder and longer due to theme being dead more often and longer then they contribute when alive. As I said it isn't a popular view and it isn't perfect either but it is better than what they do have that punishes innocent players that are trying then pushing players that are not putting the same level of effort.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,266 Arc User
    The times I have seen it was when someone pressed the random TFO button, got a mission they didn't like, and just bailed.
    This.

    It's far more likely that people are quitting queues that they don't like.

    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,644 Arc User
    How do you determine HOW someone is gonna perform though? The ONLY indication of performance before a match even starts is the number of injury debuffs someone has.
    And trying to use the "Miranda vs Fleet T6" doesn't exactly work because we have a T6 Miranda. There are two ways I can logically think of that would cause someone to die fast.
    1. Bad build
    2. Drawing ALL the aggro

    From my perspective, singling out people who die often won't solve anything, and will just encourage further discrimination based on percieved performance. There are too many variables to use number of deaths as a measuring stick. I'm a pretty good player. Hell... I've actually surprised some people with how durable I can be. But even I get killed from time to time. Some days it just feels like in one particular STF everything just decides its time for you to die and there's nothing you can do about it. The dreaded invisitorp in Infected comes to mind. Full hull, full shields... dead. One hit. Same goes for the Lances used by the Unimatrix ships in Hive Onlsaught. And then there's the instances where you're drawing so much aggro that you just can't keep up with the heals and they overwhelm you with sheer firepower. Is that the player's fault that they couldn't stay alive in that instance?

    Now if this person comes INTO an STF with a crapton of injuries... then yea... punish them because they're already going in with a handicap. One or two could be a case of "I forgot I had those". But a full line of them? That's gotta be a Troll.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • spielman1spielman1 Member Posts: 978 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    How do you determine HOW someone is gonna perform though? The ONLY indication of performance before a match even starts is the number of injury debuffs someone has.
    And trying to use the "Miranda vs Fleet T6" doesn't exactly work because we have a T6 Miranda. There are two ways I can logically think of that would cause someone to die fast.
    1. Bad build
    2. Drawing ALL the aggro

    From my perspective, singling out people who die often won't solve anything, and will just encourage further discrimination based on percieved performance. There are too many variables to use number of deaths as a measuring stick. I'm a pretty good player. Hell... I've actually surprised some people with how durable I can be. But even I get killed from time to time. Some days it just feels like in one particular STF everything just decides its time for you to die and there's nothing you can do about it. The dreaded invisitorp in Infected comes to mind. Full hull, full shields... dead. One hit. Same goes for the Lances used by the Unimatrix ships in Hive Onlsaught. And then there's the instances where you're drawing so much aggro that you just can't keep up with the heals and they overwhelm you with sheer firepower. Is that the player's fault that they couldn't stay alive in that instance?

    Now if this person comes INTO an STF with a crapton of injuries... then yea... punish them because they're already going in with a handicap. One or two could be a case of "I forgot I had those". But a full line of them? That's gotta be a Troll.

    Don't get me wrong it isn't perfect but at least it is more targeting then general punish everyone even the ones trying, will it increase the discrimination yes it will but also enforcing the rules on that will help deal with it and or remove it trust me I know of it see a lot in the game discrimination wise.
    Also I was the one in the Miranda and I did it to prove a point to a player that had the DPS is everything view when I brought a Miranda Starter ship and lasted longer and did better than he did he or she got more pissed at that fact then why I did in the first place.
    Addressing more mission pan out secondary objective lay out and such makes a difference too but you have to address why they are leaving I have left many a TFO's myself not right away I give the team a chance if they mess up a Secondary or keep being dead longer than they live I just leave and wait the 30 minutes not worth my time putting in more work for a player that cant play right do to not address injuries that effect the whole team.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,644 Arc User
    spielman1 wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong it isn't perfect but at least it is more targeting then general punish everyone even the ones trying, will it increase the discrimination yes it will but also enforcing the rules on that will help deal with it and or remove it trust me I know of it see a lot in the game discrimination wise.

    Increasing the Discrimination is not gonna help anyone. It will make people even LESS likely to actually ask for help than they are now.
    Also I was the one in the Miranda and I did it to prove a point to a player that had the DPS is everything view when I brought a Miranda Starter ship and lasted longer and did better than he did he or she got more pissed at that fact then why I did in the first place.

    The reason you survived is because you weren't drawing enough aggro off the DPSer to even attract the attention of the enemy. I once accidentially took my T2 Connie into an Infected Run with my fleetmates. The Borg NEVER even looked at me because I was not doing enough damage to get their attention. I literally went through that entire run without even getting shot at. You can do great with lower tier ships equipped with high tier gear. Its been proven by people who have actually done low tier Infected runs in the past. Hell... I think there was once talk of a SHUTTLE run at one point when it was still possible. Because people wanted a challenge.
    Addressing more mission pan out secondary objective lay out and such makes a difference too but you have to address why they are leaving I have left many a TFO's myself not right away I give the team a chance if they mess up a Secondary or keep being dead longer than they live I just leave and wait the 30 minutes not worth my time putting in more work for a player that cant play right do to not address injuries that effect the whole team.

    I don't bail if the optionals fail. Yea I get a little frustrated, but I see it through to the end because I signed up for that STF. Unless it is physically impossible to continue, such as other people bailing out or it is bugged and you literally cannot continue... I stick it out. Hell... if I start getting badmouthed by someone... I stick around and fight while they get blasted for typing out insults at us for being "insert prefered insult here" and not being as awesome as Mr. Insult, who most of the time is actually not helping the team anyways.

    I'm not in it ONLY for top reward. I'm in it to get something done. And sometimes... Coordination can make up for lack of individual output.

    Do some people need to learn more? Yes.
    Do they deserve to be punished? No.

    Its knowing WHO to punish and who not to punish that is the problem here. You are correct. Your idea is unpopular. All it will do is foster an elitist attitude against people who aren't as well off gear wise. It will basically impose a "gear score" as a requirement, which can also adversly affect players with alts that aren't top tier. We're talking major investments just to meet a "MINIMUM" requirement.
    Will it improve the STF experience? Probably through attrition. Only the veterans who have the gear will want to run them. All the new people? Nope. They won't want to be abused because they aren't "up to snuff" when they're TRYING to get up there in the first place.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,323 Arc User
    Honestly I would much rather see them have a account wide leaver pealtiy that kicks in if you leave stfs or random stfs on the same account in quick secession, as that would exclude alot of people leaving for irl reasons (not all mind you, but you can't make a system that will not affect innocent players its the cost incurred of the system.). If you implemented a system that escalates the penalty if the behavior happens too often, or if the system finds a pattern cropping up from multiple cases happening, which might either merely ban the account fully from using the stf system, or forward the case to a gm to look it over an determine if there is something there.
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