> @nixboox said:
> baddmoonrizin wrote: »
>
> Yeah, people are way too carried away in here. It's a game. Your way of life isn't on the line if you get penalized in a video game.
>
>
>
>
> Then there is no reason to have the penalty in the first place.
That doesn"t even make sense.
If the penalty is something that is easily ignored then we don't need to have the penalty at all.
Who said anything about "easily ignored?" Not I. I said getting penalized is getting blown out of proportion. It's not the end of the world if you get an AFK/Leaver penalty.
But I agree in that, what's the point of a penalty if you can easily ignore it? Like say, bailing on a TFO and getting a leaver penalty on one toon, just so you can immediately switch to another toon and do the same thing to another TFO. Hence why I'm advocating for an account-wide penalty, that way trolls CANNOT just jump from toon to toon and troll TFO teams by bailing on them and leaving them a man down. Currently, you can have up to 57 character slots on an account. That's 57 times a troll can TRIBBLE up a team's TFO run just by bailing on them. You think a 30 minute penalty on 1 toon for someone with that many characters is going to feel dissuaded from continuing that behavior? No. But if ALL their toons are locked out, they might think twice.
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You know, until they pulled the Red Alerts out completely to make them 'Events' we never had any communication at all about Red Alerts from when they decided to make Red Alerts PVE Queues, including that they were making them Queues.
So no big surprise there.
I never even knew you could switch Characters in a Queue.
Yea I was surprised as well about that and don’t even know when it was enabled. Think it was with the introduction of the new queue UI which also introduced this “queue group” layer in addition to the “team” layer. But it surely works and one can basicaly be in 2-3 PvE instances with one account at the same time. I remember that I grinded gamma marks that way as we only had "swarm" for it back than and I had 12 chars I wanted to progress in that rep. Since not much in that PvE matters aside from sitting it out it worked fine.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Yeah, people are way too carried away in here. It's a game. Your way of life isn't on the line if you get penalized in a video game.
I think I agree with you completely here, just from the opposite side of the argument.
I don’t consider players in random TFO that leave a map when they realize that it is an annoying one to be “trolls” at all. They just want to have fun when playing a game and given the massive discrepancy on the different maps we have when it comes to fun their actions are completely understandable.
As already mentioned, if one leaves, the game is easy enough for the remaining 4 to handle it. If 2 leave none of the remaining 3 will get a penalty when they quit the match as well. I think the system we have at the moment works alright the way it is.
But all in all you are right, people are way too carried away in here. It's a game. Your way of life isn't on the line if you need to abandon a PvE as well when others have left it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
This ridiculous TRIBBLE in STO where whining from people has resulted in the removal of failure conditions and has made basically the entire game a no effort roll over which results in people losing interest is exactly the problem you want to reduce people leaving missions strengthen the penalties put the fail conditions back make the game matter.
It wasn't the whining about the fail conditions. It was the fact that they were too easy to exploit in a trollish manner. Take Infected for example. What's the standard operating procedure? Kill cube, go left, then right.
What were the fail conditions for Advanced, which was generally more accessable than the at the time available Elite? Do NOT let a Nanite Sphere boop the generator.
How to purposefully fail team? Go right, boop transformers, spawn nanite spheres, boop generator, watch team scramble to salvage situation... fail.
No reward and a 30 minute lockout on that particular STF.
Troll 1 - Rest of Team 0
The fail conditions, while a well intended addition to difficulty that would challenge veteran players, was just way too easy to turn into a tool for Trolls to abuse players for their own amusement. Instead of just causing one player to rage, a Troll can cause 4 players to rage, thus increasing their pleasure at others expense, and encouraging the proliferation of such behavior.
The only way to avoid the Trolls then... would be to resort to private queues. In turn... the death of PUG runs entirely out of fear of a Troll being in the STF on a mission to fail the team for teh lulz.
Advocating for the return of those fail conditions will do nothing to improve the health of the STFs. In fact, it would just give Trolls another tool to cause chaos and frustration, and generally punish more players for even TRYING to run a STF. It turns into a gamble on if you just gave yourself a 30 minute lockout on a particular queue or not. All because you are at the mercy of god knows how many Trolls just looking for a good time at the expense of others.
Yeah, people are way too carried away in here. It's a game. Your way of life isn't on the line if you get penalized in a video game.
I think I agree with you completely here, just from the opposite side of the argument.
I don’t consider players in random TFO that leave a map when they realize that it is an annoying one to be “trolls” at all. They just want to have fun when playing a game and given the massive discrepancy on the different maps we have when it comes to fun their actions are completely understandable.
As already mentioned, if one leaves, the game is easy enough for the remaining 4 to handle it. If 2 leave none of the remaining 3 will get a penalty when they quit the match as well. I think the system we have at the moment works alright the way it is.
But all in all you are right, people are way too carried away in here. It's a game. Your way of life isn't on the line if you need to abandon a PvE as well when others have left it.
Just a side note...it's the last two that don't get penalty...not the last 3. Also with the way it works now, if somebody leaves by using a certain exploit, it considers them to be in the game so you can get the leavers penalty even if you are one of the last 2 to leave. Now obviously, that exploit should be fixed...but this whole the system ain't working like it should so we should get rid of it and go back to the problem days is insane. (Inappropriate comments moderated out. - BMR)
Oh interesting. I really could have sworn that only the 1st and 2nd player to leave a match are in danger of receiving a penalty. My teams and I need to do such stuff more often than we like to due to bugs on PvE maps where the map would either not conclude or fail. Those of us with multiple alts usualy leave first and second then.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
On a more general tone I think this thread needs to get a bit straight with the term “troll”.
For me a troll is somebody who sabotages a teamed PvE map on purpose, and only that.
AFKer, Leecher, Rage Quitter, Exploiter, DPSer may all not be ideal team mates for you but they are not trolls. They can also be “prepared for” to vast extend before one enters a public match in the first place.
For example when I know that my "impact" on a map is only around 20% of a team (so 1/5th equal to the rest) I know that I'm in higher danger to become "victim" of my team than on a map where my "impact" is at 80% of a team (hello ISA). Such stuff can be calculated when one is on a quest, for let’s say borg maks, by simply deciding which map to play so hsE, igA or better just isN…
Things get rapidly more easy to calculate if you grab a friend or two and hit public matches with them. Perhaps that is why I never seem to encounter so much trouble in PvE as the rest around here. Two players of my fleet in my team makes the two randoms I encounter basically irrelevant.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I think the problem HERE, is in part the community, as was pointed out, the definition of 'troll' is definitely been expanded out of shape or reason in the comments...and by Cryptic themselves, possibly to appear to be doing something about a problem in the most passive way possible.
Players whined about an "AFK problem" that existed only in their imagination, so Cryptic gave them an "AFK penalty" that works only in their imagination.
Comments
So you'd rather ENCOURAGE more people to drop out if they feel a group doesn't "measure up" instead.
Who said anything about "easily ignored?" Not I. I said getting penalized is getting blown out of proportion. It's not the end of the world if you get an AFK/Leaver penalty.
But I agree in that, what's the point of a penalty if you can easily ignore it? Like say, bailing on a TFO and getting a leaver penalty on one toon, just so you can immediately switch to another toon and do the same thing to another TFO. Hence why I'm advocating for an account-wide penalty, that way trolls CANNOT just jump from toon to toon and troll TFO teams by bailing on them and leaving them a man down. Currently, you can have up to 57 character slots on an account. That's 57 times a troll can TRIBBLE up a team's TFO run just by bailing on them. You think a 30 minute penalty on 1 toon for someone with that many characters is going to feel dissuaded from continuing that behavior? No. But if ALL their toons are locked out, they might think twice.
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Yea I was surprised as well about that and don’t even know when it was enabled. Think it was with the introduction of the new queue UI which also introduced this “queue group” layer in addition to the “team” layer. But it surely works and one can basicaly be in 2-3 PvE instances with one account at the same time. I remember that I grinded gamma marks that way as we only had "swarm" for it back than and I had 12 chars I wanted to progress in that rep. Since not much in that PvE matters aside from sitting it out it worked fine.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I think I agree with you completely here, just from the opposite side of the argument.
I don’t consider players in random TFO that leave a map when they realize that it is an annoying one to be “trolls” at all. They just want to have fun when playing a game and given the massive discrepancy on the different maps we have when it comes to fun their actions are completely understandable.
As already mentioned, if one leaves, the game is easy enough for the remaining 4 to handle it. If 2 leave none of the remaining 3 will get a penalty when they quit the match as well. I think the system we have at the moment works alright the way it is.
But all in all you are right, people are way too carried away in here. It's a game. Your way of life isn't on the line if you need to abandon a PvE as well when others have left it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
It wasn't the whining about the fail conditions. It was the fact that they were too easy to exploit in a trollish manner. Take Infected for example. What's the standard operating procedure? Kill cube, go left, then right.
What were the fail conditions for Advanced, which was generally more accessable than the at the time available Elite? Do NOT let a Nanite Sphere boop the generator.
How to purposefully fail team? Go right, boop transformers, spawn nanite spheres, boop generator, watch team scramble to salvage situation... fail.
No reward and a 30 minute lockout on that particular STF.
Troll 1 - Rest of Team 0
The fail conditions, while a well intended addition to difficulty that would challenge veteran players, was just way too easy to turn into a tool for Trolls to abuse players for their own amusement. Instead of just causing one player to rage, a Troll can cause 4 players to rage, thus increasing their pleasure at others expense, and encouraging the proliferation of such behavior.
The only way to avoid the Trolls then... would be to resort to private queues. In turn... the death of PUG runs entirely out of fear of a Troll being in the STF on a mission to fail the team for teh lulz.
Advocating for the return of those fail conditions will do nothing to improve the health of the STFs. In fact, it would just give Trolls another tool to cause chaos and frustration, and generally punish more players for even TRYING to run a STF. It turns into a gamble on if you just gave yourself a 30 minute lockout on a particular queue or not. All because you are at the mercy of god knows how many Trolls just looking for a good time at the expense of others.
Oh interesting. I really could have sworn that only the 1st and 2nd player to leave a match are in danger of receiving a penalty. My teams and I need to do such stuff more often than we like to due to bugs on PvE maps where the map would either not conclude or fail. Those of us with multiple alts usualy leave first and second then.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
For me a troll is somebody who sabotages a teamed PvE map on purpose, and only that.
AFKer, Leecher, Rage Quitter, Exploiter, DPSer may all not be ideal team mates for you but they are not trolls. They can also be “prepared for” to vast extend before one enters a public match in the first place.
For example when I know that my "impact" on a map is only around 20% of a team (so 1/5th equal to the rest) I know that I'm in higher danger to become "victim" of my team than on a map where my "impact" is at 80% of a team (hello ISA). Such stuff can be calculated when one is on a quest, for let’s say borg maks, by simply deciding which map to play so hsE, igA or better just isN…
Things get rapidly more easy to calculate if you grab a friend or two and hit public matches with them. Perhaps that is why I never seem to encounter so much trouble in PvE as the rest around here. Two players of my fleet in my team makes the two randoms I encounter basically irrelevant.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.