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Where STO is headed

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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,090 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I understand that. However we also do kinda have to consider that TOS was the same series that gave us some really weird stuff. And Spock's Brain.

    Galaxy wide Radiation doesn't make as much sense nowadays as a full on galactic invasion. If something was invading, that would give the Kelvans a good reason to evac just as easily without changing the narative.
    But in all reality, be it radiation or invasion, the point is semi moot and we're arguing semantics.

    And berman/Braga Trek gave us Captain/Navigator Lizard sex in ST:V - "Threshold" ;)(I'll take TOS - "Spock' Brain" over that any day. As another has point out above - high Galaxy wide radiation isn't all that far fetched. That said, the 'Kelvin invasion' storyline woul work well for STO (IMO).
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,812 Arc User
    why do we need a bad guy for future stories? I want to see how the gangster planet has gotten along, and a story on the theme-park planet. if you want a bad guy.. what about Charlie? or trelane?
    Spock.jpg

  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    > @vetteguy904 said:
    > why do we need a bad guy for future stories? I want to see how the gangster planet has gotten along, and a story on the theme-park planet. if you want a bad guy.. what about Charlie? or trelane?

    They go back to the gangster planet and see that they have evolved to street gangs level and fight over red/blue colors. The whole time they think they’re talking about the bloods and the crips but at the end you find out it’s Democrats vs Republicans.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    > @patrickngo said:
    > khan5000 wrote: »
    >
    > > @vetteguy904 said:
    > > why do we need a bad guy for future stories? I want to see how the gangster planet has gotten along, and a story on the theme-park planet. if you want a bad guy.. what about Charlie? or trelane?
    >
    > They go back to the gangster planet and see that they have evolved to street gangs level and fight over red/blue colors. The whole time they think they’re talking about the bloods and the crips but at the end you find out it’s Democrats vs Republicans.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > there's a difference?

    Exactly
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    why do we need a bad guy for future stories?
    Because an asteroid heading toward a planet is a one episode/mission story. It isn't a story arc, it isn't a narrative. Now, a bunch of asteroids heading toward many planets at the same time is a story arc, but that wouldn't happen naturally, so someone has to be behind it. Thus leading to "badguy".
    Why do we need a story arc all the time? Most of classic Trek is one or two episode stories.
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,090 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Why do we need a story arc all the time? Most of classic Trek is one or two episode stories.
    Because, even by the time of TNG, the entire idea of "episode of the week" format shows was on the way out. This is why, after Gene died, they started moving toward more formatted story arcs. We see this especially in DS9, as well as VOY, and ENT, and even more so then DS9 in Discovery.

    This is even more true in games. A hundred missions of you just faffing about ultimately leads to a boring games since it doesn't feel like you accomplished anything at all, and have no real goal. What you suggest is the equivalent of saying STO should have a million of those typical MMO "kill 5 rabbits because pelts!" quests as part of the main quest of the game, and we have enough of those in the patrol missions, which we don't need more of.
    ^^^
    STO was a lot like that in the very beginging when all they seemed to do was add system patrol after system patrol (The one's where you warp in to a space map with a big Planet at the center and fly around it killing or scanning 5 groups of enemies/objects. Personally, I'm glad they've moved away from that paradigm and I'd rather not see a return to no matter what form it might take.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    warpangel wrote: »
    Why do we need a story arc all the time? Most of classic Trek is one or two episode stories.
    Because, even by the time of TNG, the entire idea of "episode of the week" format shows was on the way out. This is why, after Gene died, they started moving toward more formatted story arcs. We see this especially in DS9, as well as VOY, and ENT, and even more so then DS9 in Discovery.
    Gene was in the process of completely ruining any chance that TNG had with his ridiculous restrictions on the writers. After his health deteriorated and his involvement dwindled new writers allowed TNG to become the show that we know and love today. Both "alien of the week" and serialized storytelling have worked for Star Trek since then and both would work just fine in STO. NEITHER type should be done 100% of the time. @somtaawkhar is correct in pointing out that we don't ALWAYS need a story arc. Sometimes, we should have just a few one offs here and there. Or maybe even a few in a row.

    Think of your favorite episodes of all time. Some of them are undoubtedly not part of large story arcs.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    I'm confused why anyone is surprised or upset over the road map.

    Discovery is the currently airing show. There are currently a total of 2 missions in the game that are 'Discovery Themed,' there is also 1 Space Queue and a Tutorial.

    Did people really think that was all? That 'Age of Discovery' was going to be 2 missions? Right now, Discovery has hardly any presence at all in STO.. obviously there is going to be more.

    Besides, the road map is 6 months and everyone acts like the entire game is nothing but Discovery from here on out.

    And for the record, people keep saying that most people don't like Discovery but most of the people I know like it (myself included.) I have a couple friends who haven't been online in years that came back to check out the Discovery stuff and I see a whole ton of Discovery Captains and ships flying about in game.

    Everyone likes to pretend that their opinion is the majority and that if they don't like something then it's an 'obvious' failure. Rather you want to believe it or not, a lot of people like Discovery and are excited for the upcoming content.

    I understand if you don't like it, I respect that opinion. But I also encourage you to at least try the new content before you decide you don't like it. I would also encourage you to give the 2nd season of Discovery a chance instead of condemning it before it even airs. I looks like Season 2 is a little more in the pace of what people are used to, but we'll see what happens.

    Overall, it's only been 1 season and a couple missions in STO. It's a little early to decide that it's beyond redemption if you don't like it.

    Where to start... Oh I know not that long ago we were blessed with the all to short story arc of Agents of Yesterday REAL TOS era adventures that could have been expanded on quite easily. But instead of doing that we have TRIBBLE the most pew pew Trek universe outside of JJ's vision. Yes good old TRIBBLE which has taken a huge dump on well established canon (NCC-1701's look, Tribbles popping up on board a Fed ship at least 12 years before they were even known the Federation. Don't believe it watch and listen to McCoy in Trouble with Tribbles, the weird Klingon ships that look like a cheap rubber chicken, the outright torture of living creatures by the Federation to control the Spore Drive and more) with the lame excuse of "copyright issues". We are going to get at least a full three seasons of it more then any of the other series of episodes in the game. Think on that one for a minute.
    Redemption for TRIBBLE is barely possible as it has strayed so far away from the timeline it claims to be set in. Need an example? Take a look at the tease photos for season two the main Female Klingon all of a sudden has 100% different Skull features to all of a sudden comply with canon established long ago. Thing is when it happened to Worf it was due to the molds being stolen but they cannot use that excuse now as the makeup is 3d printed. IMHO the only way to end the feud within fandom right now and turn TRIBBLE around is for CBS to come out and say it is a alternate universe canon to itself, This way they can do whatever they want and all of fandom will be happy. Right now CBS has by it's own creation torn Trek fandom apart.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    CBS could come out and say Discovery is set in an alternate universe and people will still TRIBBLE. The Kelvin Universe is an alternate universe and people still TRIBBLE about how it doesn’t look like TOS.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Why do we need a story arc all the time? Most of classic Trek is one or two episode stories.
    Because, even by the time of TNG, the entire idea of "episode of the week" format shows was on the way out. This is why, after Gene died, they started moving toward more formatted story arcs. We see this especially in DS9, as well as VOY, and ENT, and even more so then DS9 in Discovery.
    Yes, and I'd hazard a guess good part of what makes most of what passes for TV these days unwatchable garbage drenched in cliche is trying to squeeze complex story arcs out of writing staff more suited for "episode of the week."
  • fovrelfovrel Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    Where STO is headed? Where no man has gone before, I guess. Well man? Not only man, woman, pig, Pigs in Space, I am referring to, anything. So, where nothing has gone before.
  • galman1galman1 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    Okay all the Reader User License Agreement first.

    1, I am not picking on an individual. I will clump together groups instead as if they are responsible for it then should they all share.
    2. If you don't like negative posts about Discovery then ignore as I will be hammering it with my words.
    3. This is my game just as anyone else, instead of attacking how about looking at how their comments, suggestions, questions, not thumbs up or whatever with parts or all of the game could have validity when looked at from their side.
    4. Simply discounting comments as someone doesn't like them does not help the community. So lets turn it from me against you and you against someone else and so on and start laying down the issues that are problems and issues that do not look good for the image and future of the game. Remember if we want new blood we need to impress them when they join not several hours later when they find the problems.

    ---Now I speak - Mods, I have tried my best not to name anyone by name, I do mention cryptic, cbs, pwe, and those that like the Discovery or the overall state of the game. I could not find a way to jump over it without seeming aimless.

    I wish I could find my post where I said this ST Discovery was just going to further do damage to what we once knew as good ole Star Trek Online. So let me guess the Discovery officers will jump back and forth in time to do missions as you add them, or will they just be holodeck repeats.

    You are decimating the main plot lines for each faction. Fewer, smaller and buggy, sounds great, but I don't like Alpha Flakes.

    DOFF assignments we now have to wait even longer till they show up "correct". I now get "Experience Points" on many doff until your system says opps, and quickly renames them for what they are suppose to be. I have one question, how can adding the discovery part mess that up.

    Ships are not stopping at some planets. I still can't get any of my ships no matter the faction, to stop at DS9. Instead if you aren't watching they end up on the bottom of the map.

    The Tour of Galaxy, even in the middle of the circle I might have to turn left or right to get to the trigger that gives me credit, so I slow down and have to turn instead of looking at the larger picture (the map). How that got messed up I wish I knew, however if it has to be a certain object, then put the circle over the top of that instead.

    I know in some ways you aren't responsible for Discovery, as CBS pulls the purse strings and puppet strings. However you could tell CBS that a game needs a little more time to be tested before we toss it into the wild and fix as we go.

    Also how about an exchange of our sponsorship tokens for the different reps? What I have now are wasted and taking inventory but I hold on to them as I am sure after I get rid of mine, you will have some way to exchange them (now if there is a way I just haven't come across it yet!

    My jem toons thank you for all the fleet project resources, too bad you didn't allow them to stack beyond 100 and instead we lose all that inventory space - bank or personal till our fleet (if you are a big fleet with most things done, hard to come up with fleet projects that can help devoure some of these resources. However it is a great way to eat up inventory slots forcing one either to buy more slots or carry less of things.

    I still think the remasking, re-texture and different names used in the tutorial for the Discovery toons is by far the worst effort put forth for an introduction. As others have said here and elsewhere, just the same fed tutorial all new toons had to do or "skip". Please think about that, as having to go through a repasted tutorial with no option to skip, since I already have seen it at least 1 time with new Discv. toon and then on my first toon on the account and maybe more depending on when you added in the can skip option. Use your creative talent and do something better, more than likely too late now, but maybe the future.

    Can't say I am totally thrilled by the Battle at the Binary Star. You make one ship that can never, ever, ever be destroyed, just knocked off line. That sure brings no please to your teammates to all go after the thing, get it to become immune to everything while it recharges from damage. So much for the holosuite/deck/planet/space when you can't "change" the story or change the tactics, I even think the story ask us to come up with new ideas.

    So far the CBS Klingons all they do is just attack in waves after waves, so thrilled when I encounter them.

    Right now this game is being built from a deck of cards. How much more will the game go before the house of cards collapse. Make CBS come and read this stuff instead of you. Find out just what part of the community like Discovery or like how it was pasted in quickly. Why can't we have extended plot lines from the Klingon War to Discovery or VIL. While the writing of the story for the VIL I think was some of the best to date (it left you wanting to play the next mission - only other time, is when 2x xp is running out so not doing that on other plot lines)

    Please put voice in with the content, I have no intention to go back and play a mission so I can hear and not have to read the mission and talk between some who have voices and some who don't. Once again a tape and paste effort that doesn't make it stand out and can result in negativity going forward.

    Lastly, Please oh Please, design new ships for all factions that aren't just recycling the old and grey (no offense - ha ha). Does starfleet, the Romulans (both of them), the Klingons and a little Dominion, have NO ship designers that can build new ships never seen before. My first question, is the warp engine some sort of accordion that the engineers smash down or up to fit the ship using the current tech? What about, what was canon, that the nacelles had to away from the hull, which of course if it doesn't suit things it isn't canon. Just retrofitting old ships is just another alright lets create something so well can sell it. Why not add new console slot types or special starboard or port slots, or a backup part of the mains parts of the ship. I can't see how the Europa can fit the same warp/impulse/deflector/shield and all the conduits and stuff of much larger ships of the federation.

    There is an economic problem here. A military that (oh sorry exploration force) that needs more ships for more big losses, they aren't going to go and make 30 different sized warp engines, or dozens of shield formats. In addition the older ships being retrofitted and upgraded to current tech, any wonder if maybe gutting the ship just to fit new upgraded gear could run into problems with the general figure of the outerhull, meaning they can't put the same powerful shield on all ship types with problems. No I don't need 30 different sizes of Warp, Engines, Shields or Deflectors. So then represent that in the ships you are putting out.

    I don't know why I keep playing seeing how things have really changed over the last few months. I think it is because I have invested so much time and effort and a little money (seriously a small amount maybe $50 or less) and all I do is load up and become more depressed with what was fun, however I want to keep up so I keep playing. How long can one last.

    Lets me say to those who are fans of cbs,cryptic,pwe,Discovery, allow us critics to have our say and not shoot us down because we dared to challenge the forced static(yes static) quo flow of things. I thought games were made for gamers and not companies or a handful of players. I can flip my disputes over and see some good, but if you are too afraid to rattle the boat, we never will know down the road if it will remain afloat.

    So to those players who are furious that I attacked some parts of the game and most of all Discovery, these are my personal feelings and I am not attempting to force you to play by them or agree with them. Can't wait to see how this post is eras-treated as I have put a thumbs down on content over the last 1-2 months and other periods in my feelings over the game. You have a message board use it, ask for ideas, ask for suggestions and most of all reveal some ideas and see if they sink or float with the players. You might discover more willing to put in more cash for the items, ships, bonuses, services or whatever.

    Oh I am sure these last 2 elements are posted somewhere on the forums.
    1. Hmm, 20% off the Europa Class till the 19th, which then will rebound to normal 3k price. Well it is 3k right now with no discount shown or discussed, great.
    2. Complete a foundry mission for mission endeavour. Hmm, to complete something have to be able to get started with it and well with the foundry not working, is this another endeavour that is not going to be completed but wait till next time. I say give everyone 10,000 Zen and we will call it okay (really just kidding there) however if you have a calendar of things to do, you have the programmed list of the endeavours and any other issues fix rather than say next time (I haven't seen anything about this yet.)
  • bloodyrizbloodyriz Member Posts: 1,756 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    siotaylor wrote: »
    There'll be a new Picard series in a year or two, then DSC will be all but forgotten while we throw a collective fit over how Admiral Picard, Ambassador Picard (or whatever) is destroying what makes Trek Trek and it can't be canon and the sky is falling... Again!

    Tbh I'm rather looking forward to that. I mean if Patrick Stewart is playing Picard, it can hardly be another historical recon, can it?

    I think we've reached the point that people won't even bother unless they DO manage to do it right. hate to tell you this, but when it provides a sufficiently bad taste, a lot of people won't give the source another chance.

    for example, I will be waiting for Discovery's season 2 in the clearance bin at the local library before I give it a chance, and I'm inclined not to bother with Sir Patrick's bit unless it really looks seriously promising-and won't be giving it more than a free preview's chance, and that's because Discovery was that bad.

    History proves you wrong already. Neither TNG's nor DS9's first seasons were liked out of the gate; but there were enough fans for both shows that they survived and went 7 seasons each. I know many fans of both series think they were loved out of the gate, but that just wasn't the case - DS9 was moreso despised than TNG for being "Anti GR's vision" and "too dark" <--- Sound familiar? ;)

    I enjoyed TNG out of the gate, but the person who hooked me on TOS hated it from episode 1.​​
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Yes, and I'd hazard a guess good part of what makes most of what passes for TV these days unwatchable garbage drenched in cliche is trying to squeeze complex story arcs out of writing staff more suited for "episode of the week."
    And yet, Trek was at its worst when it did "episode of week" stuff. Look at all of the not even remotely veiled racist, imperialist, colonialist, content that made up most of TOS and early TNG. And the best of Trek, DS9, was when they stopped doing that!
    That's a matter of opinion. Personally, I wasn't all that impressed with DS9's war arc. I think the Dominion War was an overly drawn-out excuse to show more explosions.
  • slifox#0768 slifox Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    > @warpangel said:
    > somtaawkhar wrote: »
    >
    > warpangel wrote: »
    >
    > Yes, and I'd hazard a guess good part of what makes most of what passes for TV these days unwatchable garbage drenched in cliche is trying to squeeze complex story arcs out of writing staff more suited for "episode of the week."
    >
    >
    >
    > And yet, Trek was at its worst when it did "episode of week" stuff. Look at all of the not even remotely veiled racist, imperialist, colonialist, content that made up most of TOS and early TNG. And the best of Trek, DS9, was when they stopped doing that!
    >
    >
    >
    > That's a matter of opinion. Personally, I wasn't all that impressed with DS9's war arc. I think the Dominion War was an overly drawn-out excuse to show more explosions.

    I liked the DS9 war arc, but could have done without the Bajoran religion part of it. I wish Enterprise would have done the Earth/Romulan war instead of the Xindi arc. The reptilians flat out reminded me of Galaxy Quest. Or was it the other way around...can’t remember.

    I agree that TV these days is garbage. It’s this generation of creators. All they can do is reboot and TRIBBLE it all up.
  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,788 Arc User
    fovrel wrote: »
    Where STO is headed? Where no man has gone before, I guess. Well man? Not only man, woman, pig, Pigs in Space, I am referring to, anything. So, where nothing has gone before.

    Down the toilet with the Captain's Log?
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Think of your favorite episodes of all time. Some of them are undoubtedly not part of large story arcs.
    Yes, but the followup question must be: is that a good thing?

    One of my favorite TNG eps was "The Vengeance Factor". It has faults, MASSIVE faults IMO. Namely, WHY would the Gatherers WANT to live on their cramped homeworld? They left because it was elbow-room only! Yet the A plot of the episode is about convincing the Gatherers to abandon the colony they'd build on another world and return to the over-crowded homeworld that they'd left. STO touched on this with the Acamar system patrol. It wasn't a good solution long term because there just wasn't enough room for everyone. Also it's part of why the Acamarian clans often fought wars; it was fighting over land and resources, not politics or ideology.

    To me the TNG episode felt like the beginning of a story, not the end. Sure, Yuta's dead, but is she the only one with micro-virus tech? Who made it? Would it be possible for another person to create a new, different one? also, what other insane things do the Acamarians know how to do? Yuta had been given some treatment to artificially extend her longevity. that's some next-level medical tech, even by Star Trek standards. Even if the Acamarians aren't the Federation's equal in most technological respects(Marouk claimed the Enterprise was twice as fast as her personal flagship, and the Gatherers used weapons and shields drastically inferior), they DID know a few things the Feds didn't. Also, those secrets are not common knowledge among the Acamarians. They're zealously guarded clan secrets used to give the clan an edge in combat against other clans. You could do a full-on GoT-in-space style series based on the Acamarian clans.

    But you'd have to re-cast Marouk, or say it's a new leader and Marouk died of old age(because Nancy Parsons died of old age, seriously, it was an elderly woman playing an elderly woman). Maybe have Chorgan get elected as the new clan council leader and decide to expand outward once more?
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    I liked the DS9 war arc, but could have done without the Bajoran religion part of it. I wish Enterprise would have done the Earth/Romulan war instead of the Xindi arc. The reptilians flat out reminded me of Galaxy Quest. Or was it the other way around...can’t remember.
    The DS9 war arc could've been OK, if it had been shorter. Two full seasons is just too long it got old. Babylon 5 did the Shadow War in half a season.

    The xindi arc could've been a bit shorter, too. Personally I would've resolved the xindi conflict in half a season at most and had Enterprise ally with them against he Sphere Builders for the continuation. Now the Sphere Builders were just kind of brushed aside by the sidekicks like an afterthought while The Captain was off finishing the real plot. And yeah, the xindi were so cliche (because of course the reptilians and insectoids always have to be the evil ones and the human-looking ones the good guys).

    I suppose they would've done the Romulan War eventually, if the show hadn't been canceled. But I did prefer the episodic 4th season to another long arc anyway.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Um... actually.... the Xindi Insectoids were on the fence and didn't really support the idea. Oh also, building the doomsday weapon was a combined effort of all the Xindi races. it's just that some of the Xindi races changed their minds after meeting Humans.
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