> @lordsteve1 said:
> I’ve always felt the big queues like Big Dig, Breaking the Planet and Starbase Fleet Defense would be better as a sort of persistent mini battle zone that just resets after each successful mission. That way the map could adjust to how many players are there and you could run it with as many or few as we’re present.
> No more nightmare trying to get 20 players together with that.
>
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
> @lordsteve1 said:
> I’ve always felt the big queues like Big Dig, Breaking the Planet and Starbase Fleet Defense would be better as a sort of persistent mini battle zone that just resets after each successful mission. That way the map could adjust to how many players are there and you could run it with as many or few as we’re present.
> No more nightmare trying to get 20 players together with that.
>
Mine Trap wouldn't work like that. Nobody would want to zone into an instance only to find someone's started it alone and almost all the dudes you're supposed to rescue are already dead.
Big Dig, SB24, Klingon Scout Force, etc on the other hand work most excellently as an open instance and that's exactly how I used to play them back when it was still possible to start a (private) queue without player limits and let others join in on the fly. They can, with sufficient time, even be completed alone.
Because we have Borg: Red Alert that a solo player can clear within a few minutes at the most.
Remove the Red Alerts or do something, also make the Ques more rewarding, tag them into the Endeavours as well and expand the Endeavours to weeklies etc.
They will pop if they were worth it, but they have had years upon years to do something and they havent, so they can now only blame themselvs for its fall sadly.
Because we have Borg: Red Alert that a solo player can clear within a few minutes at the most.
Remove the Red Alerts or do something, also make the Ques more rewarding, tag them into the Endeavours as well and expand the Endeavours to weeklies etc.
They will pop if they were worth it, but they have had years upon years to do something and they havent, so they can now only blame themselvs for its fall sadly.
Id love to have end game ques active and popping.
You must be an Al Rivera student: "Hey lets REMOVE content players enjoy to force them to play other content they don't enjoy that I do think deserves to be played..."
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
> @lordsteve1 said:
> I’ve always felt the big queues like Big Dig, Breaking the Planet and Starbase Fleet Defense would be better as a sort of persistent mini battle zone that just resets after each successful mission. That way the map could adjust to how many players are there and you could run it with as many or few as we’re present.
> No more nightmare trying to get 20 players together with that.
>
Mine Trap wouldn't work like that. Nobody would want to zone into an instance only to find someone's started it alone and almost all the dudes you're supposed to rescue are already dead.
Big Dig, SB24, Klingon Scout Force, etc on the other hand work most excellently as an open instance and that's exactly how I used to play them back when it was still possible to start a (private) queue without player limits and let others join in on the fly. They can, with sufficient time, even be completed alone.
Sufficient time being less than 15 minutes
When it was still possible to private queue those solo i would frequently run them.
Little bit of a challenge and good spot for testing new gear.
I miss those queues.. Kobalistan, Defera Invasion and Dyson Ground are just not the same while Otha etc are best done with an established PVP set.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
By older rules I guess you means things like the !0% rule, or all going L-R?
Lack of DPS heavy players might mean such things are needed again i guess, but tbh even without players like the OP around in the pug runs, most are an easy enough victory. Powercreep has seen to it that most of the old rules are ignored now. Even with mediocre DPS you can still see a pug team at least complete a mission (optionals are obviously....optional)
The thing is, the people who came up with and spread those "rules" were the experienced players of the time. The rules arose from the fact that players who knew what they were doing well enough to invent such tactics, needed them.
Players who know what they are doing don't need those rules anymore. They can simply faceroll the content with DPS. And the players who don't know what they're doing and could therefore use the rules...don't know what they're doing.
Catch-22. The low-performance players would need to learn the game better to rediscover those tactics. But if they learn the game, they won't be low-performance players anymore and won't need the tactics.
It's not a catch-22. It's a learning experience. The hidden objective triggers were the hardest thing in the old Borg STFs. Memorizing what they were made the mission loads easier. It wasn't necessarily required to actually win, at least not on normal.
Because we have Borg: Red Alert that a solo player can clear within a few minutes at the most.
Remove the Red Alerts or do something, also make the Ques more rewarding, tag them into the Endeavours as well and expand the Endeavours to weeklies etc.
They will pop if they were worth it, but they have had years upon years to do something and they havent, so they can now only blame themselvs for its fall sadly.
Id love to have end game ques active and popping.
You must be an Al Rivera student: "Hey lets REMOVE content players enjoy to force them to play other content they don't enjoy that I do think deserves to be played..."
I agree, removing content is bad. Forcing players is bad.
Still having all marks available in RAs is nothing but a hot fix to a completly broken queue infrastructure. Long time overdue to correct this by handing out reasonable rewards on all (!) respective thematic maps.
Both UAA and TFA/E get played regularly. If not in public then in private. Non timegated content in combination with a reasonable payout gets consumed and would easily work for all the maps we have.
Motivate enthusiastic PvEer to go for the maps, motivate DPSer go for them and all would work out for the rest of the playerbase as result. We never minded to carry anybody, we just want to play.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Doesnt change the situation though does it, anyone can goto Borg: Red Alert and clear it in minutes and get the reward, so why would they do one that takes forever for less marks?
At least rebalance the ques, bring them on par to each other, make the rewards rewarding, link them to a all new Endevour system too, or we can talk like this thread over and over for another 9years and get nowhere as normal, its already killed end game.
finally do something, and something big to change things, ive been with STO from day one and i hate to see its decline because the Devs can never see or do anything about it.
Because we have Borg: Red Alert that a solo player can clear within a few minutes at the most.
Remove the Red Alerts or do something, also make the Ques more rewarding, tag them into the Endeavours as well and expand the Endeavours to weeklies etc.
They will pop if they were worth it, but they have had years upon years to do something and they havent, so they can now only blame themselvs for its fall sadly.
Id love to have end game ques active and popping.
You must be an Al Rivera student: "Hey lets REMOVE content players enjoy to force them to play other content they don't enjoy that I do think deserves to be played..."
I agree, removing content is bad. Forcing players is bad.
Still having all marks available in RAs is nothing but a hot fix to a completly broken queue infrastructure. Long time overdue to correct this by handing out reasonable rewards on all (!) respective thematic maps.
Both UAA and TFA/E get played regularly. If not in public then in private. Non timegated content in combination with a reasonable payout gets consumed and would easily work for all the maps we have.
Motivate enthusiastic PvEer to go for the maps, motivate DPSer go for them and all would work out for the rest of the playerbase as result.
I'd still say UAA is timegated though, because there's that section where you need to wait for the additional rifts to spawn in if you are going for the optional for full marks.
Other than that it's pretty easy to get people for that map. TFA as well is pretty easy to get to pop, not sure why GKA is so disliked though.
So in a perfect example of pitiful rewards, did the Breach Advanced with some friends tonight and we did all the optionals. Only trouble is that the first optional (get 100% on the hardpoints outside the ship) doesn't give you any extra rewards.
So what's the point in trying to do the mission better?
Rewards might not be the only problem with mission participation; but they are surely to blame with nonsense like this going on.
So in a perfect example of pitiful rewards, did the Breach Advanced with some friends tonight and we did all the optionals. Only trouble is that the first optional (get 100% on the hardpoints outside the ship) doesn't give you any extra rewards.
So what's the point in trying to do the mission better?
Rewards might not be the only problem with mission participation; but they are surely to blame with nonsense like this going on.
The optional has never meant anything on the event version of the Breach because its an event version, and its basically impossible to get 100% on the hardpoints due to how much of the ship has been blocked off for the event version.
They aren't going to punish you for not getting 100% when its impossible to get 100% in the event version.
Umm it's not impossible or even remotely close to that. You just have a couple of guys hang back at the start and go slow and they respawn fast enough that those guys can hit them a second time. Easy to get 100% before you get to the door.
Whether it's not in the event map or not, its still silly and lazy to have an optional in that gives nothing to the players for doing extra work. That's the very reason people can't be arsed with many maps, the rewards don't match the investment.
So in a perfect example of pitiful rewards, did the Breach Advanced with some friends tonight and we did all the optionals. Only trouble is that the first optional (get 100% on the hardpoints outside the ship) doesn't give you any extra rewards.
So what's the point in trying to do the mission better?
Rewards might not be the only problem with mission participation; but they are surely to blame with nonsense like this going on.
The optional has never meant anything on the event version of the Breach because its an event version, and its basically impossible to get 100% on the hardpoints due to how much of the ship has been blocked off for the event version.
They aren't going to punish you for not getting 100% when its impossible to get 100% in the event version.
Umm it's not impossible or even remotely close to that. You just have a couple of guys hang back at the start and go slow and they respawn fast enough that those guys can hit them a second time. Easy to get 100% before you get to the door.
Whether it's not in the event map or not, its still silly and lazy to have an optional in that gives nothing to the players for doing extra work. That's the very reason people can't be arsed with many maps, the rewards don't match the investment.
And even when the optionals do have a reward, it's not separately tallied and so insignificantly small players won't even notice.
And, again, the event version just gives you the optional as if you got it at 100%, regardless of what you actually got, because you can't normally do it in the event version.
As far as I know, no recent version of Breach, Event or otherwise, has ever given any marks whatsoever for the "shoot hardpoints" objective, because this controversy came up during the original Breach Event run, before they abridged it to create a separate event version, and there were no marks given for that objective.
In the Event version, there are only two objectives that are scored:
1. Ships rescued.
2. Players surviving.
The clock is NOT scored in the Event version and the Exterior shoot 'em has never been in any version I've played: It's just an alternate route to reaching the end of the track.
This is all correct.
Even in the event version, the bonus for rescuing ships is, I believe, 5 marks.. most people don't even bother. Not sure how much 'bonus' is given for a full team escape as I haven't seen anyone fail to get out in a couple years.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,685Community Moderator
Even in the event version, the bonus for rescuing ships is, I believe, 5 marks.. most people don't even bother. Not sure how much 'bonus' is given for a full team escape as I haven't seen anyone fail to get out in a couple years.
Odd... because every run I've had we always rescued the ships.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Even in the event version, the bonus for rescuing ships is, I believe, 5 marks.. most people don't even bother. Not sure how much 'bonus' is given for a full team escape as I haven't seen anyone fail to get out in a couple years.
Odd... because every run I've had we always rescued the ships.
Someone usually does it because they're right there by the power cores. I'll do them when flying by, I just won't go out of my way for 5 marks.
And, again, the event version just gives you the optional as if you got it at 100%, regardless of what you actually got, because you can't normally do it in the event version.
As far as I know, no recent version of Breach, Event or otherwise, has ever given any marks whatsoever for the "shoot hardpoints" objective, because this controversy came up during the original Breach Event run, before they abridged it to create a separate event version, and there were no marks given for that objective.
In the Event version, there are only two objectives that are scored:
1. Ships rescued.
2. Players surviving.
The clock is NOT scored in the Event version and the Exterior shoot 'em has never been in any version I've played: It's just an alternate route to reaching the end of the track.
This is all correct.
Even in the event version, the bonus for rescuing ships is, I believe, 5 marks.. most people don't even bother. Not sure how much 'bonus' is given for a full team escape as I haven't seen anyone fail to get out in a couple years.
It doesn't count. Whilst usually play with friends, I've PuG'ed it too and during those instances have seen players remain in the core room/inside the ship whilst everyone else escaped. The 'results' screen still listed five players as having escaped.
that was actually recently broken for the current breach hell; it used to properly penalize you for PUGs failing to actually move and becoming vaporizium as a result
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
And, again, the event version just gives you the optional as if you got it at 100%, regardless of what you actually got, because you can't normally do it in the event version.
As far as I know, no recent version of Breach, Event or otherwise, has ever given any marks whatsoever for the "shoot hardpoints" objective, because this controversy came up during the original Breach Event run, before they abridged it to create a separate event version, and there were no marks given for that objective.
In the Event version, there are only two objectives that are scored:
1. Ships rescued.
2. Players surviving.
The clock is NOT scored in the Event version and the Exterior shoot 'em has never been in any version I've played: It's just an alternate route to reaching the end of the track.
And why is that? Because in the really original version of Breach, the one didn't have a magic invisible walled racetrack to rush through, the "shoot hardpoints" objective was required. It was the only means by which the way inside the ship was unlocked. It didn't need to be rewarded separately because every team that completed it must have got 100%.
Apparently, along the way when as they've edited the mission into the form(s) it is in now and made the hardpoints optional, nobody's remembered to add a reward for it.
> @alzlee said:
> > @peterconnorfirst said:
> > redvenge wrote: »
> >
> > They do not enjoy the queues. There is also a large number of players who hate Ground content. Borticus asked players awhile ago "what do you like about STO?". Most people in the thread talked about "story driven content", which is not the majority of queues. Feel free to browse the thread.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Facenating! Erm.. sorry but do we have any story driven content in game that has you log more than once in a while every few months? Anything?! I mean I was done with ViL new stories after like 4h of play time...
>
> I myself playing since 2012, once i finish an episode i never want to do it again. If i do it's only because i had to
I have also been playing since 2012 and I replay story missions all the time.
I have been playing since LoR (thereabouts) and I also replay story missions all the time. And enjoy it.
As for not getting out of the ship in time, I've managed that since I'd never actually played Breach before this year. Until I memorized the route, I would not get out in time and it would show so in the results that 4 got out. Also, twice, I got stuck in one of the power core pylons and couldn't get out, so I had no choice except to wait for the timer to run out.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
And, again, the event version just gives you the optional as if you got it at 100%, regardless of what you actually got, because you can't normally do it in the event version.
As far as I know, no recent version of Breach, Event or otherwise, has ever given any marks whatsoever for the "shoot hardpoints" objective, because this controversy came up during the original Breach Event run, before they abridged it to create a separate event version, and there were no marks given for that objective.
In the Event version, there are only two objectives that are scored:
1. Ships rescued.
2. Players surviving.
The clock is NOT scored in the Event version and the Exterior shoot 'em has never been in any version I've played: It's just an alternate route to reaching the end of the track.
And why is that? Because in the really original version of Breach, the one didn't have a magic invisible walled racetrack to rush through, the "shoot hardpoints" objective was required. It was the only means by which the way inside the ship was unlocked. It didn't need to be rewarded separately because every team that completed it must have got 100%.
The original Breach was pretty unforgiving. You had 2 extra turret groups (on each side) when you came right out of the 'Star Wars run' tunnel (that hit *very* hard), and then 2 more tough turret groups, mounted on the exterior walls, near the 'breach' entry point. The whole thing was much tougher. But I do not remember needing to kill 100% of the hardpoints. Definitely a high percentage of them, yes, but not literally all.
And, again, the event version just gives you the optional as if you got it at 100%, regardless of what you actually got, because you can't normally do it in the event version.
As far as I know, no recent version of Breach, Event or otherwise, has ever given any marks whatsoever for the "shoot hardpoints" objective, because this controversy came up during the original Breach Event run, before they abridged it to create a separate event version, and there were no marks given for that objective.
In the Event version, there are only two objectives that are scored:
1. Ships rescued.
2. Players surviving.
The clock is NOT scored in the Event version and the Exterior shoot 'em has never been in any version I've played: It's just an alternate route to reaching the end of the track.
And why is that? Because in the really original version of Breach, the one didn't have a magic invisible walled racetrack to rush through, the "shoot hardpoints" objective was required. It was the only means by which the way inside the ship was unlocked. It didn't need to be rewarded separately because every team that completed it must have got 100%.
The original Breach was pretty unforgiving. You had 2 extra turret groups (on each side) when you came right out of the 'Star Wars run' tunnel (that hit *very* hard), and then 2 more tough turret groups, mounted on the exterior walls, near the 'breach' entry point. The whole thing was much tougher. But I do not remember needing to kill 100% of the hardpoints. Definitely a high percentage of them, yes, but not literally all.
Don't forget Bastion cruisers guarding that turret groups and Bastion Cruisers were formidable in those days.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
And, again, the event version just gives you the optional as if you got it at 100%, regardless of what you actually got, because you can't normally do it in the event version.
As far as I know, no recent version of Breach, Event or otherwise, has ever given any marks whatsoever for the "shoot hardpoints" objective, because this controversy came up during the original Breach Event run, before they abridged it to create a separate event version, and there were no marks given for that objective.
In the Event version, there are only two objectives that are scored:
1. Ships rescued.
2. Players surviving.
The clock is NOT scored in the Event version and the Exterior shoot 'em has never been in any version I've played: It's just an alternate route to reaching the end of the track.
And why is that? Because in the really original version of Breach, the one didn't have a magic invisible walled racetrack to rush through, the "shoot hardpoints" objective was required. It was the only means by which the way inside the ship was unlocked. It didn't need to be rewarded separately because every team that completed it must have got 100%.
The original Breach was pretty unforgiving. You had 2 extra turret groups (on each side) when you came right out of the 'Star Wars run' tunnel (that hit *very* hard), and then 2 more tough turret groups, mounted on the exterior walls, near the 'breach' entry point. The whole thing was much tougher. But I do not remember needing to kill 100% of the hardpoints. Definitely a high percentage of them, yes, but not literally all.
Not 100% of the hardpoints on the ship. 100% of the mission objective counter.
Comments
@lordsteve1
@ambassadorkael#6946
Nice idea. Also, don't forget to add mine trap into that mix.
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Mission:_Mine_Trap
Big Dig, SB24, Klingon Scout Force, etc on the other hand work most excellently as an open instance and that's exactly how I used to play them back when it was still possible to start a (private) queue without player limits and let others join in on the fly. They can, with sufficient time, even be completed alone.
Remove the Red Alerts or do something, also make the Ques more rewarding, tag them into the Endeavours as well and expand the Endeavours to weeklies etc.
They will pop if they were worth it, but they have had years upon years to do something and they havent, so they can now only blame themselvs for its fall sadly.
Id love to have end game ques active and popping.
You must be an Al Rivera student: "Hey lets REMOVE content players enjoy to force them to play other content they don't enjoy that I do think deserves to be played..."
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Sufficient time being less than 15 minutes
When it was still possible to private queue those solo i would frequently run them.
Little bit of a challenge and good spot for testing new gear.
I miss those queues.. Kobalistan, Defera Invasion and Dyson Ground are just not the same while Otha etc are best done with an established PVP set.
My character Tsin'xing
I agree, removing content is bad. Forcing players is bad.
Still having all marks available in RAs is nothing but a hot fix to a completly broken queue infrastructure. Long time overdue to correct this by handing out reasonable rewards on all (!) respective thematic maps.
Both UAA and TFA/E get played regularly. If not in public then in private. Non timegated content in combination with a reasonable payout gets consumed and would easily work for all the maps we have.
Motivate enthusiastic PvEer to go for the maps, motivate DPSer go for them and all would work out for the rest of the playerbase as result. We never minded to carry anybody, we just want to play.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
If there is one thing this place needs it is the voice of more teamed PvE minded peeps.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
At least rebalance the ques, bring them on par to each other, make the rewards rewarding, link them to a all new Endevour system too, or we can talk like this thread over and over for another 9years and get nowhere as normal, its already killed end game.
finally do something, and something big to change things, ive been with STO from day one and i hate to see its decline because the Devs can never see or do anything about it.
Sad but true.
I'd still say UAA is timegated though, because there's that section where you need to wait for the additional rifts to spawn in if you are going for the optional for full marks.
Other than that it's pretty easy to get people for that map. TFA as well is pretty easy to get to pop, not sure why GKA is so disliked though.
So what's the point in trying to do the mission better?
Rewards might not be the only problem with mission participation; but they are surely to blame with nonsense like this going on.
Umm it's not impossible or even remotely close to that. You just have a couple of guys hang back at the start and go slow and they respawn fast enough that those guys can hit them a second time. Easy to get 100% before you get to the door.
Whether it's not in the event map or not, its still silly and lazy to have an optional in that gives nothing to the players for doing extra work. That's the very reason people can't be arsed with many maps, the rewards don't match the investment.
This is all correct.
Even in the event version, the bonus for rescuing ships is, I believe, 5 marks.. most people don't even bother. Not sure how much 'bonus' is given for a full team escape as I haven't seen anyone fail to get out in a couple years.
Odd... because every run I've had we always rescued the ships.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Someone usually does it because they're right there by the power cores. I'll do them when flying by, I just won't go out of my way for 5 marks.
lol.. can't say that surprises me.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Apparently, along the way when as they've edited the mission into the form(s) it is in now and made the hardpoints optional, nobody's remembered to add a reward for it.
I have been playing since LoR (thereabouts) and I also replay story missions all the time. And enjoy it.
As for not getting out of the ship in time, I've managed that since I'd never actually played Breach before this year. Until I memorized the route, I would not get out in time and it would show so in the results that 4 got out. Also, twice, I got stuck in one of the power core pylons and couldn't get out, so I had no choice except to wait for the timer to run out.
The original Breach was pretty unforgiving. You had 2 extra turret groups (on each side) when you came right out of the 'Star Wars run' tunnel (that hit *very* hard), and then 2 more tough turret groups, mounted on the exterior walls, near the 'breach' entry point. The whole thing was much tougher. But I do not remember needing to kill 100% of the hardpoints. Definitely a high percentage of them, yes, but not literally all.
Don't forget Bastion cruisers guarding that turret groups and Bastion Cruisers were formidable in those days.