Jean Luc Picard Returns - New Star Trek Series Discussion

fleetcaptain5

If we had an upvote button, this thread would get a thousands of them from me!

This is really amazing news. And I'm very happy that the new series will also advance the timeline, rather than take place somewhere pre-Nemesis.

fleetcaptain5

evilmark444 wrote: »

I'm curious if any other TNG characters will be joining him, specifically Dr Crusher.

I think it's very likely that we'll see Riker show up, even if it's just once, given his involvement in Discovery. Worf would be another character that I think is likely to make a return, given Dorn's enthusiasm.

fleetcaptain5

starkaos wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

I wonder when it'll be set? It can only be between Nemesis and Hobus or after Hobus due to Stewart's age. Dealing with the fallout from the destruction of Romulus and the disappearance of Spock as the new Federation ambassador to Vulcan would be interesting.

That is assuming that they keep the destruction of Romulus. The creators of Picard's new show could just state that the destruction of Romulus happened in a parallel universe not the Prime Universe and have Picard as the Federation Ambassador to Romulus if the creators wanted to. It would resolve the issue about time travel and Star Trek 2009. If old Spock was from a parallel universe, then it doesn't matter what happened in Star Trek 2009 since the Prime Universe would not be affected.

As far as being Federation Ambassador to Vulcan, that all depends on if they want to treat the Star Trek: Countdown comic as Prime Universe canon. The creators of the new series gets to define what is canon for Star Trek so they could make Picard a Captain, Admiral, or Ambassador. Although hopefully, Picard is an Ambadassador not an Ambassador.

I certainly hope they do that.

Spock is needed in our prime universe and those alternate timelines already have their own. I also think an universe with a Romulan Star Empire would be more interesting than one without it. Especially if Picard is doing his thing there.

Though with the new series being set 20 years after Nemesis, I doubt Romulus will be all that important, regardless of whether they keep it intact or not.

I think it's more likely that the destruction and its fallout have either been dealt with, with other issues 'now' being more pressing, or, if Romulus isn't destroyed, that whatever Picard (and maybe Donatra on the Romulan side) did in the months or years shortly after Nemesis, is part of his background story that we will see during the series - which will thus still likely focus on other things.

artan42

starkaos wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

starkaos wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

I wonder when it'll be set? It can only be between Nemesis and Hobus or after Hobus due to Stewart's age. Dealing with the fallout from the destruction of Romulus and the disappearance of Spock as the new Federation ambassador to Vulcan would be interesting.

That is assuming that they keep the destruction of Romulus. The creators of Picard's new show could just state that the destruction of Romulus happened in a parallel universe not the Prime Universe and have Picard as the Federation Ambassador to Romulus if the creators wanted to. It would resolve the issue about time travel and Star Trek 2009. If old Spock was from a parallel universe, then it doesn't matter what happened in Star Trek 2009 since the Prime Universe would not be affected.

As far as being Federation Ambassador to Vulcan, that all depends on if they want to treat the Star Trek: Countdown comic as Prime Universe canon. The creators of the new series gets to define what is canon for Star Trek so they could make Picard a Captain, Admiral, or Ambassador. Although hopefully, Picard is an Ambadassador not an Ambassador.

Ambassador Spock is from the Prime Timeline. He has a photo of the TWoK crew in his belongings. There are no problems relating to the time travel in 09.

Having a photo of the TWOK crew in his belongings is not indicative that he is from the Prime Universe. The Parallels episode had a bunch of parallel universes that are extremely similar to the Prime Universe with only a few minor changes. So old Spock could be from the parallel universe that is completely identical to the Prime Universe except the events of Spock's Brain never happened.

The problem with time travel in Star Trek 2009 is that there are numerous instances in Star Trek where either by malice or accident, the original timeline is erased by someone going back in time and requires the heroes to fix the timeline. If the Prime Universe is perfectly fine, then Star Trek 2009 violates that precedence. Having old Spock from a parallel universe has the original timeline of that parallel universe erased and replaced by the timeline in the new Star Trek movies.

The Prime Universe continues to exist and there is no need to create some weird rule about time travel such as any time travel to the past creates a new timeline and doesn't erase the original. If such a rule exists, then there was no need for Picard to go back in time and prevent the Borg invasion of Earth since his actions only created a third timeline of the Enterprise-E returning to Earth instead of the original timeline where the Enterprise-E disappeared after the Borg Queen attacked Earth in the 24th Century, and the second timeline where the Borg assimilated the Earth in the 21st Century. This turns a heroic act of saving their timeline into a completely selfish one of getting back to a place that looks like their home. It also removes the dilemma of Children of Time where the Defiant crew has to make the decision of going back to DS9 and erase their descendants from existence or going back in time to live on that planet so their descendants exist. Time travel stories need changing the past erases the original timeline or else there is no drama in the story due to time travel.

You're getting tedious. The future from 09 is Prime, Spock is from Prime, he has his photo, he's credited as Prime, the only major deviation from Prime thus far is the KT. It's literally that simple.

So sorry if I take the shows own explanations on how their own rules of time travel work over yours that you picked up from reading 'many worlds hypothesis' on Wikipedia.

khan5000 wrote: »

Wait what? The Kelvin Movies are not set in the Prime Universe. The movie explicitly states they are in an alternate reality.

The scenes on the Kelvin, Spock's memories of the future, and the recordings of Eddison on the Franklin are all from the Prime Timeline. It's the same as how Generations is a TNG film but part of it takes place in the TMP era.​​

markhawkman

artan42 wrote: »

I wonder when it'll be set? It can only be between Nemesis and Hobus or after Hobus due to Stewart's age. Dealing with the fallout from the destruction of Romulus and the disappearance of Spock as the new Federation ambassador to Vulcan would be interesting.

This seems the logical choice really. Also they can toss in Sela.

legendarylycan

please no...sela is already bad enough in STO - we don't need more of her insufferableness on the silver screen​​

artan42

markhawkman wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

I wonder when it'll be set? It can only be between Nemesis and Hobus or after Hobus due to Stewart's age. Dealing with the fallout from the destruction of Romulus and the disappearance of Spock as the new Federation ambassador to Vulcan would be interesting.

This seems the logical choice really. Also they can toss in Sela.

I would hope so.

It was a big disappointment of Nemesis that it failed to cover a single one of TNG and DS9s hanging Romulan plot threads. Sela, Reunification, Spock, The Continuing Committee, losses in the Dominion War and so on. It's the final piece of Star Trek media set in the Alpha Quadrant set post Dominion War and they fail to do anything with it except mention the Remans were involved.​​

legendarylycan

there was one offscreen mention of the losses they suffered during the war - the mogai (or whatever the official name is) was created in response to the sheer number of d'deridexes they lost...course, their maiden voyage wasn't exactly a glowing review - they got slaughtered by the scimitar in less than 5 minutes​​

jonsills

shadowfang240 wrote: »

there was one offscreen mention of the losses they suffered during the war - the mogai (or whatever the official name is) was created in response to the sheer number of d'deridexes they lost...course, their maiden voyage wasn't exactly a glowing review - they got slaughtered by the scimitar in less than 5 minutes​​

With the ludicrous stats given for the Scimitar, an entire Starfleet expeditionary force should have been slaughtered by it in less than 5 minutes, let's be fair.

And there are two excellent reasons why we won't see Prime Spock on the Picard show:

1) In the Prime timeline, he was lost and presumed killed while trying to stop the Hobus event; and

2) Leonard Nimoy is dead. Casting someone else to play the exact same Spock would be insultingly stupid, as if we couldn't tell the difference.

legendarylycan

given the tal shiar was likely building it as a direct counter to borg ships and dominion dreadnoughts...its stats aren't THAT ludicrous​​

artan42

shadowfang240 wrote: »

given the tal shiar was likely building it as a direct counter to borg ships and dominion dreadnoughts...its stats aren't THAT ludicrous

Going by the nacelles on the top of the Scimitar and the blunt fore hull I always thought it was a Romulan version of the Dominion Dreadnought.​​

markhawkman

I though the Scimitar was built by Remans?

legendarylycan

no...do you think a group of freshly-freed black slaves back in 1865 would've had the educational ability or technical know-how to build whatever the most cutting-edge US naval ship was at the time? no, so neither would the remans​​

legendarylycan

the only reference to remans building the scimitar in nemesis came from shinzon, and the line was so vague that it could've easily been construed as the remans finishing up what the romulans/tal shiar already built the majority of...or given he's the antagonist, he could very well have been lying

either way, just because someone knows how to tighten a few bolts or weld some plates doesn't mean they know how to build an entire ship with cutting-edge technology​​

artan42

markhawkman wrote: »

I though the Scimitar was built by Remans?

I don't buy the resistance built it for the same reason I don't believe for one second Marcus built the Vengeance in the Sol System clandestinely.

The KKK couldn't build a battleship off the coast of New York so the Remans were either building the Scimitar for the Romulans or the Tal Shiar was watching their 'secret project' with expectant eyes.​​

angrytarg

artan42 wrote: »

I would hope so.

It was a big disappointment of Nemesis that it failed to cover a single one of TNG and DS9s hanging Romulan plot threads. Sela, Reunification, Spock, The Continuing Committee, losses in the Dominion War and so on. It's the final piece of Star Trek media set in the Alpha Quadrant set post Dominion War and they fail to do anything with it except mention the Remans were involved.

Nemesis had a dreadful script and a terrible director backed by a studio that really couldn't be bothered any more. I consider all the TNG movies weak, but Nemesis (especially counting the behind-the-scenes glimpses we got) was truly the tip of the dung heap. And I really like the scent of cow barn, I really do, but even I couldn't stand that much BS ​​

jonsills

shadowfang240 wrote: »

given the tal shiar was likely building it as a direct counter to borg ships and dominion dreadnoughts...its stats aren't THAT ludicrous​​

Armament:
52 pulse disruptor cannons;
27 photon torpedo launchers;
thalaron cascading biogenic pulse weapon

Sounds pretty doggone ludicrous to me.

marty123

This series is set in 2399 in STO its when the Klingons conquer the Gorn and the Federation Council condemns them.

what happens to STO if they don't follow the timeline established in the path to 2409?

jonsills

TNG ended in 2370. Twenty years later would be 2390, and if it runs the now-traditional length for a Trek series it should finish in 2397. No problem.

legendarylycan

and dominion dreadnoughts have firepower in excess of 3 galaxy-class starships, which by the time of the dominion war had

Armament:
14 phaser arrays, 2 torpedo launchers (250 photon), antimatter mines


so the dreadnought would need to have a number of weapons capable of exceeding 42 phaser arrays, 6 torpedo launchers and mine-laying capability, thus the scimitar would have weaponry in excess of THAT

and that's without even getting into a borg cube's dozens of emitters for cutting beams, tractors, torpedo launchers, shield neutralizers and whatever else they use PER FACING

so no, 52 disruptors and 27 torpedo launchers isn't ludicrous in the slightest​​

artan42

valoreah wrote: »

shadowfang240 wrote: »

the only reference to remans building the scimitar in nemesis came from shinzon, and the line was so vague that it could've easily been construed as the remans finishing up what the romulans/tal shiar already built the majority of...or given he's the antagonist, he could very well have been lying

either way, just because someone knows how to tighten a few bolts or weld some plates doesn't mean they know how to build an entire ship with cutting-edge technology

PICARD: You're doing this to liberate the Remans.
SHINZON: That is the single thought behind everything I have done. From building the Scimitar at a secret base to assembling my army. Finally coming to Romulus in force. I knew they would never give us our freedom. I would have to take it!

Seems straightforward enough to me. The Remans built the ship. If you want to head canon some other origin, that's ok, but officially it is the Remans built it.

Shinzon and the Remans building the Scimitar at a secret base means just that. His line of it being part of his plan of liberation doesn't exclude the possibility they were building it for the Romulans.

It can easily be read that they were building it under contract and it was part of his plan that it was built and didn't suffer from a tiny little Red Matter explosion that wipes out the base.

Unless the Romulans knew about it, from the moment it decloaks it should have been swamped with D'Deridexs as it was in romulan territory (unless that happens after the coup. I really can't remember the film at all).

angrytarg wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

I would hope so.

It was a big disappointment of Nemesis that it failed to cover a single one of TNG and DS9s hanging Romulan plot threads. Sela, Reunification, Spock, The Continuing Committee, losses in the Dominion War and so on. It's the final piece of Star Trek media set in the Alpha Quadrant set post Dominion War and they fail to do anything with it except mention the Remans were involved.

Nemesis had a dreadful script and a terrible director backed by a studio that really couldn't be bothered any more. I consider all the TNG movies weak, but Nemesis (especially counting the behind-the-scenes glimpses we got) was truly the tip of the dung heap. And I really like the scent of cow barn, I really do, but even I couldn't stand that much BS

The end battle was fun and Stewart had the time of his life. Those two things make it far superior to Generations and Insurrection for me.​​

legendarylycan

the battle of the bassen rift happened well after the coup - and while it was still in romulan space, it was just shy of the federation border - i doubt they would have had d'deridexes out that far anyway

oh, and regarding red matter...i seriously doubt the romulans would've had that at the time of nemesis; as i recall from 2009, it was a recent invention of the vulcan science academy, and they were the only ones who had it at the time, because if the romulans had any, i would think THEY would've used it on the supernova instead of having to listen to spock try and convince them to let him use it​​

markhawkman

shadowfang240 wrote: »

no...do you think a group of freshly-freed black slaves back in 1865 would've had the educational ability or technical know-how to build whatever the most cutting-edge US naval ship was at the time? no, so neither would the remans​​

The film showed that the Remans were actually relatively well-educated. They used a bunch of high-tech tools for mining and stuff. We really don't know how they built the Scimitar, or how quickly, just that they did. It's actually possible it was a retrofitted mining vessel.

legendarylycan

the narada was a mining vessel before it got borgified...its pre-borgified state looks nothing like the scimitar - it isn't even the same color

​​

talonxv

To avoid the firestorm I started in another thread and show some optimism, what do people think? I'll give you my hopes and possible takes but try to keep my hype down some just to be on the safe side.

A bit of background incase you all missed the announcement. Picard will be returning in a new series set 20 years after the events of Nemesis.

Sir Patrick did say it won't be the exact Picard we know, but will be mindful of the source material and fan wishes so take with salt.

I see 2 possibilities for Picard to be still out and about innthe galaxy, well 3.

1. Admiral Picard. Being sent on missions needing an Admiral and we could possibly see on screen the Enterprise E, the USS Titan and who knows maybe even Ezri Dax's Aventine.

2. Ambassador Picard. It was mentioned in STO and the last episode of TNG Picard becomes an ambassador and we see him in this role handling first contact, etc.

3. A retired Picard doing archeological work out in the galaxy and sometimes has run ins with Federation ships during his digs and such.

My thoughts and possibilites for a new Picard show.

Now let's not over hype this into epic perportions then be let down, but it doesn't hurt to think of possibilities to see Picard at it again.

So your thoughts?