> @artan42 said: > valoreah wrote: » > > shadowfang240 wrote: » > > the only reference to remans building the scimitar in nemesis came from shinzon, and the line was so vague that it could've easily been construed as the remans finishing up what the romulans/tal shiar already built the majority of...or given he's the antagonist, he could very well have been lying > > either way, just because someone knows how to tighten a few bolts or weld some plates doesn't mean they know how to build an entire ship with cutting-edge technology > > > > > PICARD: You're doing this to liberate the Remans. > SHINZON: That is the single thought behind everything I have done. From building the Scimitar at a secret base to assembling my army. Finally coming to Romulus in force. I knew they would never give us our freedom. I would have to take it! > > Seems straightforward enough to me. The Remans built the ship. If you want to head canon some other origin, that's ok, but officially it is the Remans built it. > > > > > > Shinzon and the Remans building the Scimitar at a secret base means just that. His line of it being part of his plan of liberation doesn't exclude the possibility they were building it for the Romulans. > > It can easily be read that they were building it under contract and it was part of his plan that it was built and didn't suffer from a tiny little Red Matter explosion that wipes out the base. > > Unless the Romulans knew about it, from the moment it decloaks it should have been swamped with D'Deridexs as it was in romulan territory (unless that happens after the coup. I really can't remember the film at all). > angrytarg wrote: » > > artan42 wrote: » > > I would hope so. > > It was a big disappointment of Nemesis that it failed to cover a single one of TNG and DS9s hanging Romulan plot threads. Sela, Reunification, Spock, The Continuing Committee, losses in the Dominion War and so on. It's the final piece of Star Trek media set in the Alpha Quadrant set post Dominion War and they fail to do anything with it except mention the Remans were involved. > > > > > Nemesis had a dreadful script and a terrible director backed by a studio that really couldn't be bothered any more. I consider all the TNG movies weak, but Nemesis (especially counting the behind-the-scenes glimpses we got) was truly the tip of the dung heap. And I really like the scent of cow barn, I really do, but even I couldn't stand that much BS > > > > > The end battle was fun and Stewart had the time of his life. Those two things make it far superior to Generations and Insurrection for me.
Ironically I preferred Generations and Insurrection to the other two TNG movies.
What I want to know is how the show (when it comes out and we know more) will affect STO. It's going to be set in 2399, so that's currently 11 years before it.
I'm going to assume (because of CBS's daft habits) that it's going to be nothing like the events that led up to STO. Unless there's some major collaboration between them in the writing process? With that assumption in mind, will the game be getting a huge make-over as the show progresses? A re-boot of it's own as it were? Or will it just go on as best it can?
And as to Stewart's Picard character himself...well whatever they do should be good. But it's going to be a major 'timeline' progression for Trek and I really want to know what's going to happen in Starfleet and the Federation since then as well. As this will be the first show that may not be the usual ship(station) and crew, that will certainly change a Star Trek show dynamic.
Now I'm just rambling, but I hope I got my point across. Would love to hear something from the game devs eventually.
oh, and regarding red matter...i seriously doubt the romulans would've had that at the time of nemesis; as i recall from 2009, it was a recent invention of the vulcan science academy, and they were the only ones who had it at the time, because if the romulans had any, i would think THEY would've used it on the supernova instead of having to listen to spock try and convince them to let him use it
It's not specified in the film who makes it but in Countdown that's what Nero's doing. He refines the decalithium he's mined to produce Red Matter for Spock.
Edit: Never mind. It was Nero that mines the decalithium but it is the Vulcans who make the Red Matter so feel free to go back and read my last post to say...
It can easily be read that they were building it under contract and it was part of his plan that it was built and didn't suffer from a tiny little decalithium explosion that wipes out the base.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
It doesn't matter what it's about. It's new so it'll be hated. It'll be accused of ruining Picard's character and ignoring STO (as though ignoring non-canon material is something bad).
People won't have grown up with this so they'll view it with suspicion and expect it to hold up to paradoxically, impossibly high standards that the reinvent on the fly and any announcement or eventual second of footage will be filtered through a jade lense so thick all you can see are vauge shapes.
I think I can probably name the people who'll be responsible for it as well. Call it a hunch.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Where did you find information suggesting 2399? The official statement was that it takes place twenty years after the end of TNG, which would be 2390, a good nineteen years before STO begins, and it seems likely that it won't override pretty much anything in the Road To 2409 data.
The Borg are supposed to be ludicrously overarmed. One cube took out an entire Starfleet expeditionary force at Wolf 359, as you may recall. As for the Dominion, the idea of one dreadnought out-arming three Galaxy-class cruisers does seem silly on the face of it, but a) it just says the ship is a match for three Big Gs, not that it has more weapons (an important distinction - an Abrams M-1 main battle tank with one MG and one cannon has more "firepower" than an individual soldier with an M-4, a Colt 1911 pistol, and several hand grenades), and b) the Dominion is essentially a dictatorship, with the Founders being for all intents and purposes a single being giving all the order (a side effect of the Great Link). There's no need to play politics to get the resources needed to build a fleet of overarmed ships, because there's nothing more important that the whims of a Founder; a Romulan Fleet Admiral, however, while high-ranking, is not regarded by anyone as a god.
Meanwhile, the Scimitar, supposedly constructed in secret by Reman slaves, carries as many beam arrays as almost 4 Galaxys, as well as almost fourteen times as many torpedo launchers. Oh, yes, and a device that dissolves organic matter through unexplained physics. All of which is apparently powered by the same sort of quantum-singularity core as a standard Romulan D'deridex-class, and which was, I remind you (and yes, it's stupid but it's specified in dialog), constructed "in secret" by Shinzon's resistance forces. (I have to believe that they had some supporters either in the Senate or in the Tal'Shiar, because otherwise the Romulan Star Empire as a whole would make the Pakled look like intellectual giants.)
My guess is it will be a retired Picard on his vineyard solving mysteries and crimes in his hometown of La Barre. Think of it as a mix between Star Trek and Murder She Wrote.
Hoinestly...not a fan of Picard. But I would watch this. Murder she wrote was awesome.
In my (tongue-in-cheek) proposal for "Murder, He Holoed" I had his retirement villa on Risa, where he writes Dixon Hill holonovels in his spare time. Someone on another forum said he'd watch every week, if they signed J. Michael Straczynski (who also worked on "Murder, She Wrote") as a showrunner.
thalaron radiation doesn't dissolve its target - it, based on the only example of it we see, turns its target to some kind of ash-like substance - so it's either some kind of extreme exothermic reaction, or extreme necrosis mixed with dehydration and mineral destruction (to make the bones capable of crumbling into that ash-like substance as well)
i think the former is more likely than the latter, as normal radiation can already cause exothermic-style burns
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
the narada was a mining vessel before it got borgified...its pre-borgified state looks nothing like the scimitar - it isn't even the same color
So? are we to assume the Romulans only operate one type of mining vessel? What i was getting at is that the Remans who built the Scimitar may have told their Romulan overseers that they were building a mining vessel.
a mining vessel with a size dwarfing a borg cube and an armament to match, not to mention having the silhouette of a vicious bird of prey? you don't design mining vessels like that - you design WARSHIPS
i realize the romulans in general and tal shiar in particular are portrayed as incredibly stupid in STO, but they aren't THAT stupid as to believe the scimitar was intended as anything OTHER than a predator
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
a mining vessel with a size dwarfing a borg cube and an armament to match, not to mention having the silhouette of a vicious bird of prey? you don't design mining vessels like that - you design WARSHIPS
i realize the romulans in general and tal shiar in particular are portrayed as incredibly stupid in STO, but they aren't THAT stupid as to believe the scimitar was intended as anything OTHER than a predator
Uh, it's not THAT big.... also, the silhouette is actually the easy part. Just don't attach the wings until you're finished.
This series is set in 2399 in STO its when the Klingons conquer the Gorn and the Federation Council condemns them.
what happens to STO if they don't follow the timeline established in the path to 2409?
There is absolutely zero evidence that STO is in the Prime Universe since the Prime Universe after Nemesis is strictly limited to any future TV show or series after Nemesis or if the IP owners of Star Trek decide to label as part of the Prime Universe. So if CBS decides to declare that STO is in the Prime Universe, then it is in the Prime Universe. So the new Star Trek series can do whatever they want without affecting STO since it is extremely unlikely that CBS will declare STO as part of the Prime Universe.
STO and the various Star Trek novels all exist in their own universe. There are at least 2 novel universes, the Shatnerverse based on the 9 books that William Shatner wrote or co-wrote and the Typhon Pact universe. Each of them is based on the same concept of telling the story after Voyager and/or Nemesis depending on when the novel came out.
I wonder if they have Klingons if they'll go with DSC version or DS9/ENT.
Depends on the reason we have Discovery Klingons. If we start seeing TOS Klingons in Discovery, then it will be the TNG version or an updated version. Of course, there is the possibility of creating a new version of Klingons that will get as much flak as the Discovery Klingons or be considered an improvement.
the narada was a mining vessel before it got borgified...its pre-borgified state looks nothing like the scimitar - it isn't even the same color
So? are we to assume the Romulans only operate one type of mining vessel? What i was getting at is that the Remans who built the Scimitar may have told their Romulan overseers that they were building a mining vessel.
"It's a new mining ship, my Lord."
"Indeed. And what, exactly, are you 'mining' that might need twenty-six torpedoes to subdue? The Borg?"
the narada was a mining vessel before it got borgified...its pre-borgified state looks nothing like the scimitar - it isn't even the same color
So? are we to assume the Romulans only operate one type of mining vessel? What i was getting at is that the Remans who built the Scimitar may have told their Romulan overseers that they were building a mining vessel.
"It's a new mining ship, my Lord."
"Indeed. And what, exactly, are you 'mining' that might need twenty-six torpedoes to subdue? The Borg?"
"They're not torpedo launchers, they're mine launchers."
For what it's worth, it seems to be implied that Shinzon had the support of the Romulan Military at the time of the coup. Tal-Aura detonates her Thalaron device immediately after the Praetor rejects a motion by two (presumably) admirals advocating an alliance with Shinzon. That timing is too good to be coincidental. It's possible that the Romulan military knew what Shinzon was building (or conspired to build/design it) and covered it up.
I'm sure you've all heard about the new series.
According to Patrick Stewart, The year will be 2399. The turn of the century. 12 years after Romulus is destroyed, and 10 years prior to the start of Star Trek Online in 2409.
I think they should try to incorporate as much STO aesthetics into it as possible. At this point, Starfleet would be using the Sierra Uniforms.
Doing this would bring added validity to STO and probably cause a surge in usage. CBS owns part of STO so it would benifit from that.
I pretty much think they have already or plan to speak to Cryptic on this matter. If they have already offered to give alot of assistance on Age of Discovery, this is a given.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Based on the choices that have been made by both the owners of the movie rights and tv rights so far, I doubt that we will see the strict adherence to canon/continuity that many diehard Trek fans want - whether that's good or bad is an obvious point of huge contention among fans.
Personally, I don't mind about the visuals. In my head, I think what would Trek look like today and what new tech would it use. If Roddenberry had had access to current visual effects (and budgets, let's be honest), I doubt that the ships would look the way they do in ToS. What I don't like is the revisionist history. Though let's be honest about that too - folks are up-in-arms about Burnham being an "adopted" sister that no one has ever heard of, but few folks seemed to bat an eye at Sarek having a first wife and Sybok when that was introduced without any thought to canon.
It also generally seems that the relationship between the game and the movies/shows are one direction - they tell Cryptic what they can and cannot do with very little regard for in-game continuity.
Comments
> valoreah wrote: »
>
> shadowfang240 wrote: »
>
> the only reference to remans building the scimitar in nemesis came from shinzon, and the line was so vague that it could've easily been construed as the remans finishing up what the romulans/tal shiar already built the majority of...or given he's the antagonist, he could very well have been lying
>
> either way, just because someone knows how to tighten a few bolts or weld some plates doesn't mean they know how to build an entire ship with cutting-edge technology
>
>
>
>
> PICARD: You're doing this to liberate the Remans.
> SHINZON: That is the single thought behind everything I have done. From building the Scimitar at a secret base to assembling my army. Finally coming to Romulus in force. I knew they would never give us our freedom. I would have to take it!
>
> Seems straightforward enough to me. The Remans built the ship. If you want to head canon some other origin, that's ok, but officially it is the Remans built it.
>
>
>
>
>
> Shinzon and the Remans building the Scimitar at a secret base means just that. His line of it being part of his plan of liberation doesn't exclude the possibility they were building it for the Romulans.
>
> It can easily be read that they were building it under contract and it was part of his plan that it was built and didn't suffer from a tiny little Red Matter explosion that wipes out the base.
>
> Unless the Romulans knew about it, from the moment it decloaks it should have been swamped with D'Deridexs as it was in romulan territory (unless that happens after the coup. I really can't remember the film at all).
> angrytarg wrote: »
>
> artan42 wrote: »
>
> I would hope so.
>
> It was a big disappointment of Nemesis that it failed to cover a single one of TNG and DS9s hanging Romulan plot threads. Sela, Reunification, Spock, The Continuing Committee, losses in the Dominion War and so on. It's the final piece of Star Trek media set in the Alpha Quadrant set post Dominion War and they fail to do anything with it except mention the Remans were involved.
>
>
>
>
> Nemesis had a dreadful script and a terrible director backed by a studio that really couldn't be bothered any more. I consider all the TNG movies weak, but Nemesis (especially counting the behind-the-scenes glimpses we got) was truly the tip of the dung heap. And I really like the scent of cow barn, I really do, but even I couldn't stand that much BS
>
>
>
>
> The end battle was fun and Stewart had the time of his life. Those two things make it far superior to Generations and Insurrection for me.
Ironically I preferred Generations and Insurrection to the other two TNG movies.
I'm going to assume (because of CBS's daft habits) that it's going to be nothing like the events that led up to STO. Unless there's some major collaboration between them in the writing process? With that assumption in mind, will the game be getting a huge make-over as the show progresses? A re-boot of it's own as it were? Or will it just go on as best it can?
And as to Stewart's Picard character himself...well whatever they do should be good. But it's going to be a major 'timeline' progression for Trek and I really want to know what's going to happen in Starfleet and the Federation since then as well. As this will be the first show that may not be the usual ship(station) and crew, that will certainly change a Star Trek show dynamic.
Now I'm just rambling, but I hope I got my point across. Would love to hear something from the game devs eventually.
It's not specified in the film who makes it but in Countdown that's what Nero's doing. He refines the decalithium he's mined to produce Red Matter for Spock.
Edit: Never mind. It was Nero that mines the decalithium but it is the Vulcans who make the Red Matter so feel free to go back and read my last post to say...
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
People won't have grown up with this so they'll view it with suspicion and expect it to hold up to paradoxically, impossibly high standards that the reinvent on the fly and any announcement or eventual second of footage will be filtered through a jade lense so thick all you can see are vauge shapes.
I think I can probably name the people who'll be responsible for it as well. Call it a hunch.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Meanwhile, the Scimitar, supposedly constructed in secret by Reman slaves, carries as many beam arrays as almost 4 Galaxys, as well as almost fourteen times as many torpedo launchers. Oh, yes, and a device that dissolves organic matter through unexplained physics. All of which is apparently powered by the same sort of quantum-singularity core as a standard Romulan D'deridex-class, and which was, I remind you (and yes, it's stupid but it's specified in dialog), constructed "in secret" by Shinzon's resistance forces. (I have to believe that they had some supporters either in the Senate or in the Tal'Shiar, because otherwise the Romulan Star Empire as a whole would make the Pakled look like intellectual giants.)
i think the former is more likely than the latter, as normal radiation can already cause exothermic-style burns
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My character Tsin'xing
i realize the romulans in general and tal shiar in particular are portrayed as incredibly stupid in STO, but they aren't THAT stupid as to believe the scimitar was intended as anything OTHER than a predator
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My character Tsin'xing
There is absolutely zero evidence that STO is in the Prime Universe since the Prime Universe after Nemesis is strictly limited to any future TV show or series after Nemesis or if the IP owners of Star Trek decide to label as part of the Prime Universe. So if CBS decides to declare that STO is in the Prime Universe, then it is in the Prime Universe. So the new Star Trek series can do whatever they want without affecting STO since it is extremely unlikely that CBS will declare STO as part of the Prime Universe.
STO and the various Star Trek novels all exist in their own universe. There are at least 2 novel universes, the Shatnerverse based on the 9 books that William Shatner wrote or co-wrote and the Typhon Pact universe. Each of them is based on the same concept of telling the story after Voyager and/or Nemesis depending on when the novel came out.
Depends on the reason we have Discovery Klingons. If we start seeing TOS Klingons in Discovery, then it will be the TNG version or an updated version. Of course, there is the possibility of creating a new version of Klingons that will get as much flak as the Discovery Klingons or be considered an improvement.
"Indeed. And what, exactly, are you 'mining' that might need twenty-six torpedoes to subdue? The Borg?"
"They're not torpedo launchers, they're mine launchers."
For what it's worth, it seems to be implied that Shinzon had the support of the Romulan Military at the time of the coup. Tal-Aura detonates her Thalaron device immediately after the Praetor rejects a motion by two (presumably) admirals advocating an alliance with Shinzon. That timing is too good to be coincidental. It's possible that the Romulan military knew what Shinzon was building (or conspired to build/design it) and covered it up.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
According to Patrick Stewart, The year will be 2399. The turn of the century. 12 years after Romulus is destroyed, and 10 years prior to the start of Star Trek Online in 2409.
I think they should try to incorporate as much STO aesthetics into it as possible. At this point, Starfleet would be using the Sierra Uniforms.
Doing this would bring added validity to STO and probably cause a surge in usage. CBS owns part of STO so it would benifit from that.
What do you guys think?
Personally, I don't mind about the visuals. In my head, I think what would Trek look like today and what new tech would it use. If Roddenberry had had access to current visual effects (and budgets, let's be honest), I doubt that the ships would look the way they do in ToS. What I don't like is the revisionist history. Though let's be honest about that too - folks are up-in-arms about Burnham being an "adopted" sister that no one has ever heard of, but few folks seemed to bat an eye at Sarek having a first wife and Sybok when that was introduced without any thought to canon.
It also generally seems that the relationship between the game and the movies/shows are one direction - they tell Cryptic what they can and cannot do with very little regard for in-game continuity.