PVP-Just hear me out here..This aint a poll or TRIBBLE like that..

salvation4

My opinion..

IF YOU WANT TO IMPROVE IT THEN,
DISABLE ALL SPECIAL CONSOLES & SET BOUNS EQUIPMENRT AT ANY TIER, DEVICES & SPECIAL WEAPONS leaving only BoFF, DoFF abilities, spec trees and traits intact, only stuff available from fleet holdings and mission drops, that way you have only a base ship to see what players can do with only their base ships, raw skill, weapons and abilities...Just plain and simple base PvP..For this you wouldnt require to rewrite code completely just a small bit to disable the things mentioned above similar to how the secondary specialization tree is disabled from Tier 3 to the end of the tree..

If this is done correctly power scaling wouldnt be really required and NPC's can be retuned to their former leathality where all your abilities consoles and skill will be a must to take them down thereby improving both the PvE in all three states (Normal/Advance/Elite) and PvP environments..Also it could push players to be in fleets more because of the equipment and make fleets alot more active..

IF YOU DONT WANT TO IMPROVE IT THEN:
JUST REMOVE IT AND SAVE GAME RESOURCES TO MAKE OTHER PARTS BETTER AND BUG FREE..

So to sum up..
To Improve PvP..
-NO SPECIAL CONSOLES (Just Standard consoles from Fleet holdings, R&D & mission available to all, nothing from the C-store or lobi ships or any unique consoles)
-NO SET BOUNS EQUIPMENT AT ANY TIER (2/3/4-pcs bonus and so on ..Eg: Core+Impulse OR Deflector+Shield and so on..Players can use the equipment as standalone only for PvP..)
-NO SPECIAL WESPONS (Just Standard weapons from Fleet holdings, R&D & mission available to all, nothing from the C-store or Lobi ships or any unique weapons)
-NO DEVICES (Except consumable Shield, Aux, Weapon and Engine batteries).
-Specialization Trees can be left active.
-BoFF & DoFF abilities can remain active.
-Traits can be left active.

To NOT improve it:
-REMOVE IT AND SAVE GAME RESOURCES!!

Personally I feel alot can be done..And not just unneccessarily amp up or amp down HP, SHP and weapons and unbalance everything else and have super lame NPC's which are one-shoted on sight..If PvP is tuned like above to create a level base where everyone has a baseline ship with standard stuff it can work and the NPC's in the rest of the game can be made more challenging..

protoneous

salvation4 wrote: »

IF YOU DONT WANT TO IMPROVE IT THEN:
JUST REMOVE IT AND SAVE GAME RESOURCES TO MAKE OTHER PARTS BETTER AND BUG FREE..
To NOT improve it:
-REMOVE IT AND SAVE GAME RESOURCES!!

Given the amount of dev time put into PvP (zero) I doubt removing it from the game would save resources or make other parts of the game better or more bug free. It would only make the game smaller. I do like your post though.

You're probably going to have a lot of folks post "just remove it from the game as hardly anybody PvP's anymore" or for various other reasons. I'd ask them to cite their source for number of players who PvP just ask they ask me to cite my source when commenting on what seems to be a lack of PvE population

Game player stats are not available, but you can to a reasonable extent see some trends if you look around and use your eyes. Think there was a poll on fleet attendance a while ago, or you could just look at the queues.

In a recent PvP thread it was said most matches are arranged privately with a reasonable amount of involvement.

As somebody who mainly PvE's but gets a big thrill out of the occassional match I'd hate to see game options shrink and hope you get what you wish for. I have a lot of respect for the level of skill many of you display and can recall the days where it was the PvP players who were answering game mechanic questions for the PvE crowd here in the forums.

Your fun is not wrong.

tequilapasta

Fixing the game so space PVP works would involve creating a second completely different game, with different ships and captain skills which could only be used in PVP.

Further, unless Cryptic could somehow put a fixed PVP system in a lockbox, I don't see it soaking up too many development hours.

It's dead, Jim.

tfomega

I pvp every day. We have been asking for devs to improve pvp since day one. We even called them out on their April Fool's joke a few years ago to make a season 5 server (similar to the different servers they use for tribble or redshirt) that we would be happy to go back to a monthly subscription on (to pay for it) to bring PvP back to its former glory. I don't think they anticipated the strong support for their joke, which is pretty much the PvP community saying that PvP was better in the past than it is now. There are no black and white choices here, OP. There are grey areas too

leemwatson

The only way to 'balance' PvP is to either boost player HP or reduce DPS. Our DPS is geared for HP heavy NPC's.

warzoon007

Why will you want to kill the little pvp that the game has left? Kill pvp and you will kill the game. PVP is more active than PVE at this time and is the revenue generation source.

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ucgsquawk

I posted this once before...I still think it would work well:
I usually just lurk and read the forums, but to create a real PVP system, would it not be better to use the tier system that already exists?

Players are always restricted to standard ships with standard consoles and weapons, nothing outside of craftable at that tier, available to each faction from tier 1 up until they reach tier 6 at which point the gloves are off for what you use.

When you enter a PVP area you are put into an instance were you only encounter players of your tier.
In order to be able to play at higher tiers perhaps you have to score a certain amount of victories, either straight kills or mission related or even some of both. This ensures players are reaching a certain skill before moving on to the bigger leagues in a ladder style, but also allows players who just like the lower tiered ships to go in and slug it out.

Requiring limits on what can be equipped and the types of ships at lower tiers helps balance the field and keep strict vape pvpers from stomping newer players until they've had a good deal of practice and worked their way up.
I suspect a good number of players would enjoy lower tiers as they can have balance and simplified ships, allowing piloting and tactics to come more to play.

Just a thought.

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tfomega

If PvP dies.. I quit STO.. simple as that. I hate grinding.. I hate buying ships for the traits necessary to compete in PvP and never fly the ship again. I hate the repetitiveness of this game. I like the stories and the unofficial continuation of canon of "what might have happened if CBS/Paramount could finish every story". I hate how PvP was envisioned to be in this game by Atari/Cryptic originally, but that we only have 2 new maps in 8 years. I love PvP and I like playing against real brains that are not predictable and cryptic cannot offer anything in game like it, except for PvP.

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tfomega

patrickngo wrote: »

but it's dead.

Sorry.. not as long as there are two pvpers playing against each other. For the past month, there has been a pvp revival in ker'rat where we had 3 and 4 zones going. PvP is not dead

postinggum

The reason people won't run private matches or leagues with restrictive rules is?

tfomega

postinggum wrote: »

The reason people won't run private matches or leagues with restrictive rules is?

Unfounded.. there is a Tyler Durden match once every month. last one held on the weekend of 2/3/2018. I fully expect one to occurring again soon.

rck01

PvP isn't going anywhere for the simple reason that it's nearly impossible to become competitive as a "Free to Play" user. No other community spends as much on ships, gear, upgrades, etc. PvPers are the ultimate "mix/max" players, willing to shell out serious cash for a new trait or ability that *might* give them an edge in combat.

We're also willing to put up with tremendous abuse from/neglect by the developers: no new maps, no working scoreboards, stupid rules like you're kicked from a match if you get disconnected (no PvE content has this "feature", to my knowledge).

Why are we so long suffering? Because we love to compete against other human beings. We also love the camaraderie that comes from playing as part of a PvP team or fleet. Basically, we're the closest thing to "sure revenue bet" that Cryptic has, and I predict they will continue to just ignore us while happily collecting our money as we chase after each new crop of "must have" goodies.

RCK - a.k.a. "Good/Evul Jacob" - Sad/Hax Pandas PvP Fleets

scrdr

All I ever see is ppl hate on pvp is it coz you cant pvp well or dunno anything about it. But yes we hosted Tyler Durden every weekend we just had not the time to host 1 for some weeks now as Real life things get in the way. Plus pvp is not dead far from in the last 6 months ive seen so many old and new pvpers now playing pvp again. B4 there was maybe 2 big pvp fleets left now 2 more pvp fleets are back and bigger than ever .Ker'rat almost every night is full fighting big battles so Epic to see. Plus Pve is dead and boring now only so many times to can do DPS runs to get that 2k dps more Zzz. PvP you need skill to not die skill to find ways to kill the other player and a lot of good team play great for team building. I didn't read all this TRIBBLE I see as a lot is maybe just all QQ how bad pvp is and how you can Fix it all I'm doing is making the fun out of what I got and if the game can help it get better then I'm happy plus I think pvpers add more real money to this game than PVE now so maybe give us some love its all we ask.

tfomega

rck01 wrote: »

PvP isn't going anywhere for the simple reason that it's nearly impossible to become competitive as a "Free to Play" user. No other community spends as much on ships, gear, upgrades, etc. PvPers are the ultimate "mix/max" players, willing to shell out serious cash for a new trait or ability that *might* give them an edge in combat.

We're also willing to put up with tremendous abuse from/neglect by the developers: no new maps, no working scoreboards, stupid rules like you're kicked from a match if you get disconnected (no PvE content has this "feature", to my knowledge).

Why are we so long suffering? Because we love to compete against other human beings. We also love the camaraderie that comes from playing as part of a PvP team or fleet. Basically, we're the closest thing to "sure revenue bet" that Cryptic has, and I predict they will continue to just ignore us while happily collecting our money as we chase after each new crop of "must have" goodies.

RCK - a.k.a. "Good/Evul Jacob" - Sad/Hax Pandas PvP Fleets

dah truth ^^

In the last week, I spent $600. Since October, 2017, I have spent over $5000... so ya.. cryptic couldn't identify a true cash cow after 8 years.. many would come back if they would give us what we want.

warpangel

They are not going to remove PvP. Even if nobody played it, they would rather keep it up so the marketing department can say the game "has PvP" than actually put dev work into removing it.

And they aren't looking to improve it, either.

talonxv

> @warzoon007 said:
> Why will you want to kill the little pvp that the game has left? Kill pvp and you will kill the game. PVP is more active than PVE at this time and is the revenue generation source.

Wait what? You're serious?

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anazonda

I very much enjoy the way PvP is set currently...

Makes it east to mass-ignore people who like to stroke e-peens.

kamagam31

Why ruin the fun of other players by removing PvP?
Op idea is good for like having stock matches ( A new Alternative game mode aka Warthunder) but with no console choices it quickly will get booring.

For the people saying PvP is dead I can just invite you to see for yourselves how much fun we have everyday in Ker'rat.

With the big Nerf long ago I gave up PvE on this game and almost quit. Now that I'm having fun again with PvP in Sto say people it has to be removed. Thats not nice leave us alone please.

Sorry if gramar is not good my english isn't that good

tfomega

scrdr wrote: »

All I ever see is ppl hate on pvp is it coz you cant pvp well or dunno anything about it. But yes we hosted Tyler Durden every weekend we just had not the time to host 1 for some weeks now as Real life things get in the way. Plus pvp is not dead far from in the last 6 months ive seen so many old and new pvpers now playing pvp again. B4 there was maybe 2 big pvp fleets left now 2 more pvp fleets are back and bigger than ever .Ker'rat almost every night is full fighting big battles so Epic to see. Plus Pve is dead and boring now only so many times to can do DPS runs to get that 2k dps more Zzz. PvP you need skill to not die skill to find ways to kill the other player and a lot of good team play great for team building. I didn't read all this **** I see as a lot is maybe just all QQ how bad pvp is and how you can Fix it all I'm doing is making the fun out of what I got and if the game can help it get better then I'm happy plus I think pvpers add more real money to this game than PVE now so maybe give us some love its all we ask.

So basically, what you are saying is that PvPers are willing to suffer in the sliver of PvP that we do have in the game, despite Cryptic never giving it the attention it deserves. PvP battles are Star Trek and part of canon, and you just can't have the "peace" you want. At the end of every major battle where factions became allied, you saw that they just went back to their old ways (DS9 conquering Dominion and Sisko and Ross would not drink to the dead Cardassians). In any case PvP is not dead and PvE'ers get bored of the game and stop.. hence F2P and that matches Cryptic's expectations. PvPers will suffer through the neglect and still fight each other even after 8 years of being spit on by Cryptic.

talonxv

> @kamagam31 said:
> Why ruin the fun of other players by removing PvP?
> Op idea is good for like having stock matches ( A new Alternative game mode aka Warthunder) but with no console choices it quickly will get booring.
>
> For the people saying PvP is dead I can just invite you to see for yourselves how much fun we have everyday in Ker'rat.
>
> With the big Nerf long ago I gave up PvE on this game and almost quit. Now that I'm having fun again with PvP in Sto say people it has to be removed. Thats not nice leave us alone please.
>
> Sorry if gramar is not good my english isn't that good

Not saying get rid of PvP. But it's a festering sore of boring. If I want PvP, I'll go play World of:Tanks/Planes/Warships that was built from the ground up as a PvP game, not an add-on that's been largely abandoned since start.

But I digress. The person who said without PvP this game dies...that's just lunacy. PvP in this game could die tomorrow and this game would hardly notice.

Unless there's going to be a major revamp, PvP is barely on life support and isn't worth the investment.

tfomega

talonxv wrote: »

PvP in this game could die tomorrow and this game would hardly notice.

Unless there's going to be a major revamp, PvP is barely on life support and isn't worth the investment.

I think that is a matter of opinion, honestly. PvP may be barely holding on, but you have PvPers still playing it for the last 8 years in spite of Cryptic's efforts. Yeah, I think people would notice if PvP were shut down tomorrow. It would be an immediate hit to Cryptic's pocketbook given that PvPers pretty much buy everything in the game to test it. A lot of PvPers have pretty much every build you can imagine in this game, for every career, so if a new console or a new trait doesn't meet the needs of one toon, it will another. Like i said, if PvP is killed in this game.. many PvPers will have no reason to play, and yes, it will be noticeable in Cryptic's bank account, and then it will have a cascading effect where they may not be able to even afford as many developers for PvE. Wouldn't be a smart decision I would think.

talonxv

> @tfomega said:
> talonxv wrote: »
>
> PvP in this game could die tomorrow and this game would hardly notice.
>
> Unless there's going to be a major revamp, PvP is barely on life support and isn't worth the investment.
>
>
>
>
> I think that is a matter of opinion, honestly. PvP may be barely holding on, but you have PvPers still playing it for the last 8 years in spite of Cryptic's efforts. Yeah, I think people would notice if PvP were shut down tomorrow. It would be an immediate hit to Cryptic's pocketbook given that PvPers pretty much buy everything in the game to test it. A lot of PvPers have pretty much every build you can imagine in this game, for every career, so if a new console or a new trait doesn't meet the needs of one toon, it will another. Like i said, if PvP is killed in this game.. many PvPers will have no reason to play, and yes, it will be noticeable in Cryptic's bank account, and then it will have a cascading effect where they may not be able to even afford as many developers for PvE. Wouldn't be a smart decision I would think.

Maybe maybe not. But it's not enough to kill the game. Hurt it, sure. Kill it. Not a chance.

tremere12

patrickngo wrote: »

leemwatson wrote: »

The only way to 'balance' PvP is to either boost player HP or reduce DPS. Our DPS is geared for HP heavy NPC's.

disagree here-there's a reason that Science ships are dominant in PvP, and it ain't DPS.

it's disables.

You're slightly outdated in your info. While subnuke is a top ability, and the Daemosh is hot right now (mostly for it's speed/turnrate and battle cloak), the big plague right now is Dual Heavy Cannons laced with Cold Hearted and other shield/hull pen stuff that cuts right through you no matter what you do. Not to mention that Voice of The Prophets experimental weapon also packs quite a punch alongside. So it's Tactical Escort online all over again.

This isn't necessarily a problem if everyone uses the same thing, but I've been saying this before recently, all PvP needs right now is stronger cruisers (for a lack of a better word) and better FAW/BO, and that's really it. Everyone is moving towards the DHC build right now (including myself), but that sucks for any guy entering the arena with any other type of build.

salvation4

I would like to inform players here that PvE aint dead by a long shot in fact yesterday the BIG DIG and BREAKING THE PLANET WERE POPPING LIKE CRAZY..Every 5 mins or so after years of being dead ground ques..Also your advanced PvE ques also pop regularly..So it isint only just PvP that is seeing increased populations (I havent seen any group PvP;s happening when I go online) but PvE is also seeing a ressurgence..So nither is dying off and it could be all a run up to the summer expansion..

Now from my main post I in no way said KILL PVP (If you cant improve it why bother going further?), If I did say KILL PvP then I I wouldnt have given the options to improve it..And to add to that why not consider class balances?? The classes are in no way balanced with SCI being at the top of the power creep TAC in the middle and ENG at the bottom..

talonxv

> @salvation4 said:
> I would like to inform players here that PvE aint dead by a long shot in fact yesterday the BIG DIG and BREAKING THE PLANET WERE POPPING LIKE CRAZY..Every 5 mins or so after years of being dead ground ques..Also your advanced PvE ques also pop regularly..So it isint only just PvP that is seeing increased populations (I havent seen any group PvP;s happening when I go online) but PvE is also seeing a ressurgence..So nither is dying off and it could be all a run up to the summer expansion..
>
> Now from my main post I in no way said KILL PVP (If you cant improve it why bother going further?), If I did say KILL PvP then I I wouldnt have given the options to improve it..And to add to that why not consider class balances?? The classes are in no way balanced with SCI being at the top of the power creep TAC in the middle and ENG at the bottom..

Toss in the multi mission ships with aux cannons that DON'T DRAIN AUX POWER along with sci abilities.