> @silverlobes#2676 said:
> azrael605 wrote: »
>
> > @silverlobes#2676 said:
> > azrael605 wrote: »
> >
> > That is just hilariously wrong Pat, especially the bit about science as Discovery so far is whole orders of magnitude more accurate with the science than any previous Trek has ever been.
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, depending upon one's point of view...
> >
> > I suspect, that what patrickngo is referring to, is the technobabble, which, while not RealWorldHardScience, was science within the contect of that science fiction realm...
> >
> > My thoughts on Discovery as a series are no secret, and I see no need to repeat them. But I will say that (as someone with a Michael Burnham boff) I'm keen to see what Discovery content gets brought into the game.
> >
> > Something I would like to see, is the content staggered across the various levels. For example, at present, a New Player can fly an NX, or a TOS Constitution right off the bat (if they're willing to pay) And any Fed character, AoY or 25th C, gets to fly the movie Constitution when they hit Lt.Commander (and that cruiser, really is one of my favorite in-game ships) So, what I'd like to see, is an equal spread of Discovery ships, maybe with the Walker Class as a Captain rank option, some of the other classes, such as the Nimitz Class below, and the Crossfield Class (Which I absolutely detest (although I did like the fan-rendered Crossfield on an episode of Trekyards, and thought that was a really nice, and visually-fitting ship) being a Rear Admiral ship. Why at Rear Admiral? Well, instead of the on-board transwarp, with a different animation, working in the exact same way as with the transwarp to Fleet Starbase/Sol System/ETC, well, that can then be the Spore Drive I'm sure there would be some glitches on release of someone's Ushaan or Konnie spinning off with that effect, but in theory, I would have thought it would be easy enough to integrate the concept in such a manner, and with an 'attainability' which would be consistent to a higher-ranking officer
>
> Its not a matter of viewpoint in any way shape or form. Its flat out fact. In TOS Opperation Annihilate they bombard a planet with massive amounts of UV to kill the pancake parasites because quote "it's harmless to humans", which is laughably wrong and was known to be wrong at the time the episode was written.
>
> TWOK had ships hiding in nebulas which impossibly looked like clouds at close range (which they don't) and interfering with tech much more advanced than ours which would be unaffected in any way. This one is especially egregious as it became a standard tactic in Trek thus passing this ludicrous idiocy on to the entire franchise.
>
> TNG made frequent use of theories debunked decades before the episodes such as "Memory RNA".
>
> I can keep going all day long
>
> Technobabble does not and will never equal science. So far the only complaint from real world scientists about Discovery has been a very small error on the Tardigrade, other real world science referenced in the show has been praised for its accuracy.
>
>
>
> I believe the phrase is 'truthful hyperbole' Yes, UV is damaging, in sufficient concentration. In sufficient concentration, so is water (Leah Betts, for example...) in the context of the episode, the UV burst was considered an acceptable risk (and given that McCoy could cure a patient of the need for dialysis, within minutes, with one pill, I doubt any of the results of that UV burst would have been an issue for Federation Medicine ) I agree, technobabble does not equal science (certainly not Real World Science) but as fictional science, being presented within a work of fiction, I guess the criteria at discussion there, is how accurate does one need one's science to be in works of fiction, to be accepted as presented? (I agree, not RealWorld accurate) All I'm saying, is that I believe what patrickngo was refering to, is the shift from the 'Hollywood Science' of previous Trek, to the more Based-in-reality science which Discovery seems to have gone with
Umm no sorry man, the specific concentration of UV they specified having to use in the episode would have killed everything on the planet. They specifically stated they had to hit the entire surface of the planet with the UV output of the system's star at close range, ie well inside the orbital distance of a planet such as Mercury, no matter how you slice it thats fatal and that was known when the episode was written. Also patrick was specifically deriding Discovery for quote "basically tossed out any of the "Science" in their "Science Fiction", " which is exactly the opposite of what they actually did, period.
Well, I just saw his clarifying comment, so I was wrong in my thoughts... Oh well, no need for me to try and defend a premise which someone wasn't actually referring to But I will repeat a point and leave it on the table as a rhetorical question: how accurate does one need one's science to be in works of fiction, to be accepted as presented?
Me, if I'm looking to watch a show, I'm looking to be entertained, not to have to 'fact-check' things as to if they're correct or not
Example: Superglue fumes turning fingerprints black in Beverly Hills Cop. Not 100% accurate, but who cares? It's only meant as entertainment
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> @silverlobes#2676 said:
> azrael605 wrote: »
>
> That is just hilariously wrong Pat, especially the bit about science as Discovery so far is whole orders of magnitude more accurate with the science than any previous Trek has ever been.
>
>
>
> Well, depending upon one's point of view...
>
> I suspect, that what patrickngo is referring to, is the technobabble, which, while not RealWorldHardScience, was science within the contect of that science fiction realm...
>
> My thoughts on Discovery as a series are no secret, and I see no need to repeat them. But I will say that (as someone with a Michael Burnham boff) I'm keen to see what Discovery content gets brought into the game.
>
> Something I would like to see, is the content staggered across the various levels. For example, at present, a New Player can fly an NX, or a TOS Constitution right off the bat (if they're willing to pay) And any Fed character, AoY or 25th C, gets to fly the movie Constitution when they hit Lt.Commander (and that cruiser, really is one of my favorite in-game ships) So, what I'd like to see, is an equal spread of Discovery ships, maybe with the Walker Class as a Captain rank option, some of the other classes, such as the Nimitz Class below, and the Crossfield Class (Which I absolutely detest (although I did like the fan-rendered Crossfield on an episode of Trekyards, and thought that was a really nice, and visually-fitting ship) being a Rear Admiral ship. Why at Rear Admiral? Well, instead of the on-board transwarp, with a different animation, working in the exact same way as with the transwarp to Fleet Starbase/Sol System/ETC, well, that can then be the Spore Drive I'm sure there would be some glitches on release of someone's Ushaan or Konnie spinning off with that effect, but in theory, I would have thought it would be easy enough to integrate the concept in such a manner, and with an 'attainability' which would be consistent to a higher-ranking officer
Its not a matter of viewpoint in any way shape or form. Its flat out fact. In TOS Opperation Annihilate they bombard a planet with massive amounts of UV to kill the pancake parasites because quote "it's harmless to humans", which is laughably wrong and was known to be wrong at the time the episode was written.
TWOK had ships hiding in nebulas which impossibly looked like clouds at close range (which they don't) and interfering with tech much more advanced than ours which would be unaffected in any way. This one is especially egregious as it became a standard tactic in Trek thus passing this ludicrous idiocy on to the entire franchise.
TNG made frequent use of theories debunked decades before the episodes such as "Memory RNA".
I can keep going all day long
Technobabble does not and will never equal science. So far the only complaint from real world scientists about Discovery has been a very small error on the Tardigrade, other real world science referenced in the show has been praised for its accuracy.
I believe the phrase is 'truthful hyperbole' Yes, UV is damaging, in sufficient concentration. In sufficient concentration, so is water (Leah Betts, for example...) in the context of the episode, the UV burst was considered an acceptable risk (and given that McCoy could cure a patient of the need for dialysis, within minutes, with one pill, I doubt any of the results of that UV burst would have been an issue for Federation Medicine ) I agree, technobabble does not equal science (certainly not Real World Science) but as fictional science, being presented within a work of fiction, I guess the criteria at discussion there, is how accurate does one need one's science to be in works of fiction, to be accepted as presented? (I agree, not RealWorld accurate) All I'm saying, is that I believe what patrickngo was refering to, is the shift from the 'Hollywood Science' of previous Trek, to the more Based-in-reality science which Discovery seems to have gone with
actually? no. I'm specifically referring to the Protoculture mold-spore super jump drive computed by the bear-sized microscopic organism, the "Alpha Predator Sense" **** they gave the Klingons, and a whole lot of basic mechanical "WTF??" in blade and armor design.
Fair enough, my bad
You tune in to watch it, don't you? I assume you enjoy it...right?
Nope... You're lecturing at the choir...
we're getting WAY off topic here. This is supposed to be about WHEN Discovery ships will enter the game, along with maybe WHICH Discovery ships, I may not care for it, but that's life and gaming. I'm thinking we'll probably see the Walkers first.
But on that note, I'll just repeat what I posted yesterday, as it got ignored by azrael:
Something I would like to see, is the content staggered across the various levels. For example, at present, a New Player can fly an NX, or a TOS Constitution right off the bat (if they're willing to pay) And any Fed character, AoY or 25th C, gets to fly the movie Constitution when they hit Lt.Commander (and that cruiser, really is one of my favorite in-game ships) So, what I'd like to see, is an equal spread of Discovery ships, maybe with the Walker Class as a Captain rank option, some of the other classes, such as the Nimitz Class below, and the Crossfield Class (Which I absolutely detest (although I did like the fan-rendered Crossfield on an episode of Trekyards, and thought that was a really nice, and visually-fitting ship) being a Rear Admiral ship. Why at Rear Admiral? Well, instead of the on-board transwarp, with a different animation, working in the exact same way as with the transwarp to Fleet Starbase/Sol System/ETC, well, that can then be the Spore Drive I'm sure there would be some glitches on release of someone's Ushaan or Konnie spinning off with that effect, but in theory, I would have thought it would be easy enough to integrate the concept in such a manner, and with an 'attainability' which would be consistent to a higher-ranking officer
*ExtraBecauseThatsHowThisForumNeedsEditsHandled
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
OK, let's stop debating the merits of the show. That's not what this thread is about.
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so my bet (if we were betting) would be not just a C-store release, but several, possibly with a Featured Episode or new Starfleet Starter zone (or patch/expansion to the Agents of Yesterday starter zone.)
What I think might be quite cool, is if they were to do a major patch/expansion of the AoY dontent, starting earlier in the timeline with Discovery content. At Level 10, they get brought into the AoY-era content, then at level 20, get brought into the 25th Century... Might be too much re-coding/re-writing, but it would serve to make the character 'more of a temporal agent', than is currently the case (especially now that the actual Temporal Recruit event is finished, it would still give that flavor to the character)
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Do you mean a "2 hangar" carrier? Or a "1 hanger" dreadnought?
I assumed it would be the Discovery Timeline Intel Dreadnought Battlecruiser or something similar. A copy-paste of the Vengeance (including disruptor broadside console). Which, would not be a bad thing. The Vengeance is a good ship. I just did not see the Sarcophagus as a "2 hangar" carrier.
Do you mean a "2 hangar" carrier? Or a "1 hanger" dreadnought?
I assumed it would be the Discovery Timeline Intel Dreadnought Battlecruiser or something similar. A copy-paste of the Vengeance (including disruptor broadside console). Which, would not be a bad thing. The Vengeance is a good ship. I just did not see the Sarcophagus as a "2 hangar" carrier.
he meant 2 hangar dreadnought carrier...you know, like the dominion and xindi ones?
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I guess we've almost gotten to that point where Discovery fans (the kinds who got into Star Trek with ST:D) discover the MMO only to complain that there's not much from their favorite show in it.
Guess it must be hard to understand why someone would hate a show that intentionally urinates all over canon, throwing it out the window just to be another boring and generic science fiction show that doesn't stand out in any way?
You're talking about JJ Trek, right? Because that ship sailed back when the so-called re-launch happened. I haven't watched any Discovery yet, but it can't be worse than JJ Trek.
In-game I don't mind anything these days, after I got over species 8472's bio ships as player ships...
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just a thought for people who hate both of the newer star trek things. if/when discovery stuff is added to the game there is a slight chance you can see ships from them destroy each other. and if that don't bring a bit of joy your a terrible hater.
and if the sarcophagus is a full carrier. I hope there is a way to make it look like a normal ish klingon ship so I can use it on my kingon character who really needs a klingon t- 6 carrier of some sort.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Yeah - I am convinced it'll be a two-hanger Dreadnought Carrier, considering the size of it.
It is certainly big for it's time period, but is it bigger than a D'deridex or a Galaxy X? Most of the ship's mass seems to be in it's two engines. That is why I was thinking it would be a traditional "dreadnought" with one hangar, vs two.
If it turns out to be a two hangar ship, then fine. I just don't see it as a carrier from what little we saw of it in action and based on it's relative size.
All I'm trying to say is there's some Discovery fans out there who started with Discovery but hate the older Trek's and looks at them as being ugly and outdated with bad plots or wooden acting, and when they find an MMO such as this including all the old Trek stuff and nothing from Discovery they will likely wind up complaining about it. Problems can happen both ways whether it be old Trek fans or new Trek fans.
I watched Discovery twice so far and I still cant really make out what the ships actually look like. With allmthe effects and fast movements most of them are rarely clearly visible at least for my old eyes^^
I watched Discovery twice so far and I still cant really make out what the ships actually look like. With allmthe effects and fast movements most of them are rarely clearly visible at least for my old eyes^^
I agree, it's really difficult to get a solid feeling for the look, there is always so much going on... I guess that's the advantage and drawback of CGI over models (or cameras) on a remote controlled arm. And it seems they aren't relying as much on stock shots like in TNG either, so there is also nothing that really helps build familiarity.
But that's just one more reason why I'd love to see them in game, to finally get a good, close look at it. (Of course, STO in its beginning was a bad way to get a good, close look at accurate models. Thanks to the current ship team and technological advances for really improving the game there.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
All I'm trying to say is there's some Discovery fans out there who started with Discovery but hate the older Trek's and looks at them as being ugly and outdated with bad plots or wooden acting, and when they find an MMO such as this including all the old Trek stuff and nothing from Discovery they will likely wind up complaining about it. Problems can happen both ways whether it be old Trek fans or new Trek fans.
Speaking of a writer's strike or actor's strike, the 'classic Doctor Who' serial 'Shada' which was supposed to be broadcast during the Tom Baker era (1979-1980 Season 17) just got completed this year. Written by Douglas Adams (Hitchhiker's Guide...) about half was filmed then but a technician's strike derailed it. This year they had the original cast voice the missing parts and animation was used for the missing visuals.
Does anyone believe that 37 years later they would do that with a Discovery Episode?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Re-reading this thread, and keeping in mind the simple question posed by the OP, it's disappointing to see parts of it turned into a anti-Discovery soap-box.
If players who either enjoy Discovery and like the ships from the show want those ships in game why shouldn't they get them?
If you don't like the Discovery starship classes there is a simple solution here. Don't buy them.
I hate the Scimitar, so I never purchased one. I don't like the Vengence class and have therefore never tried to obtain one. But I certainly don't resent anyone who likes/loves those classes.
Some players really do need to at least TRY to look past their "stop liking what I don't like" attitudes.
I absolutely refuse to watch Discovery, and yet, I'm the only commentator, who has actually proposed a way in which Discovery content could be sensibly added to the game, beyond "Oooh, Walker! Gonna git me one a those!" or "Lockbox..." I've given the easiest, most rational way for the Crossfield Class (and other classes) to be integrated into the game, in a way that its spore drive capability can be employed, with only the need for a new animation, and this is a ship, which I guarantee I would never buy, because I hate how it looks (although I would fly the fan-rendered Crossfield seen on Trekyards, because that actually looks like aTOS-era ship)
#TeamOrville
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
All I'm trying to say is there's some Discovery fans out there who started with Discovery but hate the older Trek's and looks at them as being ugly and outdated with bad plots or wooden acting, and when they find an MMO such as this including all the old Trek stuff and nothing from Discovery they will likely wind up complaining about it. Problems can happen both ways whether it be old Trek fans or new Trek fans.
I started Star Trek with TAS. hehehe
I remember the animated Star Treks were a special treat, because they were in syndication and it was never quite certain if they'd be on on saturday morning. (one year they bundled them with the Fantastic Four cartoon, Space Ghost, and Rocky&Bullwinkle's hour where I lived, four hours of awesome cartoonage starting 6AM and going to noon, followed by Monster Movies!!!) Regular, Live-action Star Trek was 4:30 PM every weekday, with two episodes sandwiched around Wild Wild West and...I can't remember, on Sunday afternoon right after "Kung Fu Theater", on the local non-Network-affiliate broadcast station.
so my bet (if we were betting) would be not just a C-store release, but several, possibly with a Featured Episode or new Starfleet Starter zone (or patch/expansion to the Agents of Yesterday starter zone.)
What I think might be quite cool, is if they were to do a major patch/expansion of the AoY dontent, starting earlier in the timeline with Discovery content. At Level 10, they get brought into the AoY-era content, then at level 20, get brought into the 25th Century... Might be too much re-coding/re-writing, but it would serve to make the character 'more of a temporal agent', than is currently the case (especially now that the actual Temporal Recruit event is finished, it would still give that flavor to the character)
see, I think this is actually a GOOD idea, business-wise. I'm not saying I'd personally care for it, but it's a good idea and they should do it. (my personal view is that the people responsible for Discovery should...okay, that's not fit for public consumption but it's bad, alright?)
but in general, on a business-case basis, your proposal is probably the best way to ca$h in on Discovery, particularly because it's doing very well in a financial sense, and likely to be renewed steadily. (Minus a sudden increase in costs, or a writer's strike, or an actor's strike).
As an additional expansion of my idea, have The Player as a cadet for the Discovery-era content, then a lieutenant for the TOS-era content. That doesn't even need to be accompanied by a temporal jump (as with the transit to the 25th Century) and can be covered with an additional "xx years later..." addition to the beginning of the cut scene of the Pioneer and Captain Isaac's log Easy...
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Comments
Me, if I'm looking to watch a show, I'm looking to be entertained, not to have to 'fact-check' things as to if they're correct or not
Example: Superglue fumes turning fingerprints black in Beverly Hills Cop. Not 100% accurate, but who cares? It's only meant as entertainment
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Nope... You're lecturing at the choir...
But on that note, I'll just repeat what I posted yesterday, as it got ignored by azrael:
Something I would like to see, is the content staggered across the various levels. For example, at present, a New Player can fly an NX, or a TOS Constitution right off the bat (if they're willing to pay) And any Fed character, AoY or 25th C, gets to fly the movie Constitution when they hit Lt.Commander (and that cruiser, really is one of my favorite in-game ships) So, what I'd like to see, is an equal spread of Discovery ships, maybe with the Walker Class as a Captain rank option, some of the other classes, such as the Nimitz Class below, and the Crossfield Class (Which I absolutely detest (although I did like the fan-rendered Crossfield on an episode of Trekyards, and thought that was a really nice, and visually-fitting ship) being a Rear Admiral ship. Why at Rear Admiral? Well, instead of the on-board transwarp, with a different animation, working in the exact same way as with the transwarp to Fleet Starbase/Sol System/ETC, well, that can then be the Spore Drive
*ExtraBecauseThatsHowThisForumNeedsEditsHandled
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LOL
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Agreed.
I assumed it would be the Discovery Timeline Intel Dreadnought Battlecruiser or something similar. A copy-paste of the Vengeance (including disruptor broadside console). Which, would not be a bad thing. The Vengeance is a good ship. I just did not see the Sarcophagus as a "2 hangar" carrier.
he meant 2 hangar dreadnought carrier...you know, like the dominion and xindi ones?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
In-game I don't mind anything these days, after I got over species 8472's bio ships as player ships...
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Raysah@sharmutashlikha#2072 salutes Captain Nog with respect.
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R'Miia@sharmutashlikha#2072 salutes Captain Nog.
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[Emotes] She'Roars@sharmutashlikha#2072: Qapla', Captain Nog!
She'Roars@sharmutashlikha#2072 salutes Captain Nog with respect.
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Yozit'yaza@sharmutashlikha#2072 salutes Nog.
and if the sarcophagus is a full carrier. I hope there is a way to make it look like a normal ish klingon ship so I can use it on my kingon character who really needs a klingon t- 6 carrier of some sort.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
If it turns out to be a two hangar ship, then fine. I just don't see it as a carrier from what little we saw of it in action and based on it's relative size.
I agree, it's really difficult to get a solid feeling for the look, there is always so much going on... I guess that's the advantage and drawback of CGI over models (or cameras) on a remote controlled arm. And it seems they aren't relying as much on stock shots like in TNG either, so there is also nothing that really helps build familiarity.
But that's just one more reason why I'd love to see them in game, to finally get a good, close look at it. (Of course, STO in its beginning was a bad way to get a good, close look at accurate models. Thanks to the current ship team and technological advances for really improving the game there.)
My character Tsin'xing
Does anyone believe that 37 years later they would do that with a Discovery Episode?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
#TeamOrville
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
As an additional expansion of my idea, have The Player as a cadet for the Discovery-era content, then a lieutenant for the TOS-era content. That doesn't even need to be accompanied by a temporal jump (as with the transit to the 25th Century) and can be covered with an additional "xx years later..." addition to the beginning of the cut scene of the Pioneer and Captain Isaac's log
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth